It didn’t look like propaganda

Summary

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Click Here – "It didn’t look like propaganda"

Podcast: Click Here (Recorded Future News)
Air Date: May 5, 2026
Host: Dina Temple-Raston
Featured Guest: Pavel Talankin (Pasha), with David Borenstein
Main Theme:
How state propaganda subtly transforms everyday life—and ordinary people—through the personal story of Pavel Talankin, a teacher from Russia who witnessed and documented his school and town being quietly enlisted into supporting the war in Ukraine.

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Episode Overview

This episode pulls back the curtain on modern-day propaganda—not the bombastic, easily identifiable kind, but the quieter, insidious type that blends into the fabric of trusted community institutions. Through the lived experience of Pasha, a teacher in remote Karabash, Russia, the episode explores the mechanisms and real-life impact of propaganda as it seeps into school curricula, reshapes behaviors, and normalizes a new reality.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Redefining Propaganda (00:02–01:56)

• Propaganda is often associated with spectacle: “a fiery political speech” or cinematic events like "Hitler's Triumph of the Will" ([00:02–00:42]).
• But not all propaganda is so overt—sometimes it "doesn't look like propaganda at all… just a message dispatched from a place you already trust" ([00:57], Dina).
• The shift to subtle channels is set up with Pasha’s story: posts quietly appear in the school’s online space urging support for the war ([01:13], Pasha).

2. Pavel’s Life in Karabash Before the War (05:12–06:53)

• Pasha grew up in Karabash, a small, tight-knit town in the Ural Mountains.
• His role as the AV guy and event organizer fostered creativity among students, such as helping a girl build a college portfolio that impressed university professors ([05:34], Dina).
• Life is described as ordinary and fulfilling, focused on education and personal mentorship.

3. Propaganda Quietly Arrives in School (06:53–08:41)

• After Russia’s full invasion of Ukraine in 2022, new Ministry of Education directives and scripts arrive, dictating precisely what teachers must say ([06:53], Pasha).
• Pasha is told to document these new activities—not for creativity, but as “proof” of compliance to the Ministry ([07:23], Pasha & Dina).
• School activities are reoriented: even children’s games and lessons become militarized (“A is for Army”), and history class is rewritten to justify the war ([07:59–08:41]).

4. Normalization and Internalization (09:09–12:05)

• Initially, everyone goes through the motions:
  • "Sometimes Pasha’s camera caught teachers rolling their eyes or students snickering" ([10:26], Dina).
  • Children joke with their teacher: “Blink twice if you’re being forced to say all of this. And she very clearly blinks twice.” ([11:01], Pasha).
• Over time, the absurd becomes normalized—propaganda messages appear on the school’s social media, and war support becomes a routine ([11:23], Pasha).
• Pasha’s disquiet centers on "how simple it all wound up seeming" ([12:00], Pasha).

5. Small Acts of Resistance (12:26–13:24)

• Pasha’s experiment: he purposely leaves 45 minutes of a required lesson video black, only filming the start and end, to see if anyone is really watching the content ([12:26], Pasha). No one notices.
• He concludes: “They were using me as a pawn. I was there, standing there as a figure... Make sure you read from this paper and don’t take a step to the left or the right. I am here.” ([13:03], Pasha)

6. Escalation: Propaganda Gets Louder (16:27–18:00)

• The arrival of Wagner Group fighters at the school signals a new phase: children are handed landmines and rifles; graphic stories about killing and dying are shared as if instructional ([17:15–17:55], Pasha & Dina).
• A disturbing soundscape: "That sound … that's a child handling and pulling the trigger of a semi-automatic rifle. All presented as if it was just another lesson." ([17:38], Dina).

7. The Harm to Individuals (18:00–19:43)

• Personal stories illustrate emotional and psychological toll:
  • Masha must process her brother being sent to war while participating in performative praise for the war—"sing songs in praise of cancer" is the metaphor Pasha uses to describe the cognitive dissonance ([18:43], Pasha).
• The ease with which community members donate items and support the war effort highlights how "it all was... always a normal, yes" ([19:22], Pasha).

8. Crossing the Line: Reaching Out and Telling the Story (20:08–22:13)

• Pasha secretly begins sending footage and details to American filmmaker David Borenstein, prompted by anger and a sense of duty ([20:08], David & Pasha).
• He likens himself to the questioning figure in Repin's painting "Barge Haulers on the Volga"—“only one of them in the middle, a young man… is like, what? Why? Why are we forced to do this?” ([21:27–21:54], Pasha).
• Pasha films daily, copying and sending his footage discreetly.

9. Consequences and Escape (22:13–23:37)

• Eventually, Pasha senses surveillance and real danger—an unknown car sits outside his home: “It arrived at 8am, it left at 8pm. There were people sitting in it. ... And who these people were, I don’t know.” ([22:41], Pasha).
• With new anti-speech, anti-dissent laws being passed, “it just became impossible” ([23:19], Pasha).

10. A Film, Global Impact, and The Irony of Attention (23:37–25:30)

• Pasha flees Russia. His secret footage becomes the Oscar-winning documentary "Mr. Nobody Against Putin," amplifying his story internationally ([23:37], Dina).
• Reactions at home are hostile: “We’re waiting for you to come visit. We’re going to break your knees and you’re going to crawl on the ground and apologize…” ([24:28], Pasha).
• Even the Kremlin responds, pointedly avoiding calling it propaganda ([24:50], Pasha).

11. Final Reflections: How Propaganda Captures a Society (25:30–26:13)

• Pasha: “First it becomes part of the routine… then it just becomes the culture… then it becomes a cage into which people walk. ... The doors are still open. But nobody is leaving because it’s more comfortable there.” ([25:30], Pasha)
• Dina: “[They] didn’t walk into it all at once, but step by step, lesson by lesson, until the thing reshaping their reality felt like just a normal day at school.” ([26:13], Dina)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Propaganda’s Subtlety:
  “Sometimes, at first blush, it doesn’t look like propaganda at all. No stage, no sweeping music, just a message dispatched from a place you already trust.”
  – Dina Temple-Raston [00:57]

• On Enforced Compliance:
  “The assistant director of the school called me into her office and said, Pavel, now, in addition to all of your other duties, you’re going to need to film all of these new things happening in the school, because we will have to report back and have to prove that we’re fulfilling them.”
  – Pavel Talankin [07:23]

• Children’s Awareness:
  “There’s this moment in the film where it was said to the teacher, blink twice if you’re being forced to say all of this. And she very clearly blinks twice. And then the children understood everything.”
  – Pavel Talankin [11:01]

• Relentless Normalization:
  “For me, the most painful thing was how simple it all wound up seeming.”
  – Pavel Talankin [12:00]

• Moments of Resistance:
  “So I decided to conduct a little experiment. I filmed the beginning of a lesson, and I filmed the end of the lesson. And I left everything in the middle, black... And I sent all of that off as a completed work… Will they come back to me and criticize me? …Nothing came back.”
  – Pavel Talankin [12:26]

• On Being Used as a Pawn:
  “That’s exactly what it was. They were using me as a pawn. I was there, standing there as a figure for the teachers to say, watch out, he’s watching you. ... Make sure you read from this paper and don’t take a step to the left or the right. I am here.”
  – Pavel Talankin [13:03]

• When Propaganda Becomes a Cage:
  “First it becomes part of the routine… then it just becomes the culture… then it becomes a cage into which people walk. ... The doors are still open. But nobody is leaving because it’s more comfortable there.”
  – Pavel Talankin [25:30]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Beginnings of quiet propaganda: 00:57–01:56
• Change at the school, new curriculum & Pasha’s filming: 06:53–07:39
• Militarization of education, rewriting history: 07:59–08:41
• Initial skepticism, eye-rolls, “blink twice” moment: 10:26–11:12
• Normalization and social media war support: 11:23–12:05
• Pasha’s resistance experiment: 12:26–12:50
• Wagner Group “show and tell” at school: 17:15–17:55
• Masha’s story and the “cancer” metaphor: 18:43–19:17
• Sending footage abroad, motivation: 20:08–21:54
• Surveillance, car outside the building: 22:41–23:06
• Premiere and backlash of the documentary: 23:37–24:50
• Propaganda as routine, then cage: 25:30–26:13

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a narrative, human-centered tone—alternating between the dryly descriptive and the deeply personal, via both Pasha’s matter-of-fact reflections and Dina’s careful narration. There’s a persistent sense of dread and sadness, but also sparks of subversive humor (“We’re waiting for you to come visit… We’re going to break your knees…” [24:28], Pasha) and persistent, quiet courage.

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Summary

This episode of Click Here uses the ground-level vantage of Pasha, a Russian schoolteacher turned accidental documentarian, to reveal how state-driven propaganda can stealthily permeate and transform ordinary life. Through school scripts, social media, performative rituals, and eventually direct militaristic displays, the Russian state’s messaging becomes normalized—until resistance seems not only dangerous but almost inconceivable. Pasha’s eventual act of whistleblowing, and the international resonance of his filmed evidence—culminating in an Oscar-winning documentary—highlight the power of individual testimony, and the profound difficulty of sustaining personal integrity under systemic pressure. Ultimately, the episode forcefully demonstrates that the most effective propaganda doesn’t overwhelm you—it convinces you that what’s happening is simply “just another day at school.”

Transcript

[Dina Temple Raston]

From recorded future news and prx, this is click here. When you think about propaganda, you probably picture spectacle, a fiery political speech.

[Recorded Future Announcer]

This year they say there are 800,000 pairs of hoops standing heel to heel, waiting for the Fuhrer's final speech or

[Dina Temple Raston]

a film like Hitler's triumph at the will.

[Narrator/Analyst]

Every shot, every crowd, and every camera angle was chosen for psychological impact.

[Dina Temple Raston]

It's big, it's deliberate. It wants to be seen. And because of that, it's easy to

[Narrator/Analyst]

recognize they were carefully staged, rehearsed and edited to send a clear political message that Hitler was a savior figure and that the Nazi movement was unstoppable and universally adored.

[Dina Temple Raston]

But that's not the only way propaganda works sometimes. At first blush, it doesn't look like propaganda at all. No stage, no sweeping music, just a message dispatched from a place you already trust.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

All of a sudden, these posts started appearing on the school page of make sure that you support the war, that older kids should sign up, everybody should contribute money to the war effort.

[Dina Temple Raston]

From Recorded Future News and prx, this is Click Here, a show about the people making and breaking our digital world. I'm Dina Temple Raston, and today on the show, an inside look at how propaganda actually works. Not as a slogan, not as a speech, but as something quieter, something that shows up in places like a school. This is a scenario Pavel Talonkin never thought he'd find himself in.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

For me, the most painful thing was how simple it all wound up seeming.

[Dina Temple Raston]

We'll be right back. Support for Click Here comes from CleanMyMac. CleanMyMac helps you clear space, reduce background strain, and maintain steady performance without cost. Constant interruptions. It's not about cleaning files or fixing machines. It's about removing the friction that breaks momentum. CleanMyMac is the quiet presence that keeps creativity uninterrupted, so that when you're finishing up a pitch deck at midnight or exporting a huge project, you can trust your Mac to keep up. Personally speaking, when I'm working late on deadline for Click Here, the spinning wheel of death is the last thing I need. Get tidy today, try 7days free and use the code click here for 20% off. Support for Click Here comes from Quince. Lately, I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day, leaning into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable, but still put together. It just makes getting dressed less of a chore. And for a while now, Quince has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering, and everything just works without overthinking it. Quince makes it easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup. I just got a Quince bathing suit that looks like one of those expensive European brands, but for a fraction of the price. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com clickhere for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com clickhere for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com clickhere you're listening to click here. I'm Dina Temple Roston. Today, our story begins in Karabash, a small Russian town in the Ural Mountains. You've probably never heard of. Pavel Tolankin, everyone calls him Pasha, had lived there all his life. He grew up there, went to school there, and became a teacher there. And for him, Karabash wasn't just home, it was everything. And then in 2022, after Russia launched its full fledged invasion of Ukraine, the place he thought he knew began to change.

[David Borenstein]

Pasha, let me just start by saying that it's really good to meet you and, and thank you very much for trusting us with your story.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

Thank you too.

[Dina Temple Raston]

I spoke to him through an interpreter. And before the war, his job at the school was simple. He helped kids create things.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

So my job at the school was to organize all kinds of holidays and festivals, concerts, competitions, trivia nights.

[Dina Temple Raston]

He was the quintessential AV guy, helping kids make their own movies, teaching them how to edit, how to perform, trying to set them up for brighter futures. Like this one girl he mentored. She applied to college using a portfolio of the work that they'd done together.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

Everything she had shot, everything she had edited together. And when she was applying, the professors looking at her portfolio said, wow, we have students who already have gone through training here who don't do anything like this that you've only done in high school.

[David Borenstein]

That must have made you feel very proud.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

Of course, I was incredibly proud.

[Dina Temple Raston]

And then February 2022, Russia launched its full scale invasion of Ukraine. And at first it felt far away Because Pasha lived in Karabash, a small town in the Ural Mountains, so remote that Stalin used to send undesirables there. It's nearly 1500 miles from the front lines. But when the war arrived in Karabash, it didn't come with an explosion. It arrived more quietly inside a school curriculum.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

All of a sudden, from the Ministry of Education, all of these materials started to be sent to our school and to all of the schools, with different curriculums and methodology and programs, even video. There were very concrete instructions on what the teacher should say and how they should say it.

[Dina Temple Raston]

In other words, these weren't suggestions, these were scripts. And they came with instructions for Pasha, too.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

The assistant director of the school called me into her office and said, pavel, now, in addition to all of your other duties, you're going to need to film all of these new things happening in the school, because we will have to report back and have to prove that we're fulfilling them.

[Dina Temple Raston]

He wasn't just recording school life anymore. His camera had a new purpose. It was capturing compliance.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

And so all of this could be documented and uploaded to the Ministry of Education as proof.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Proof the lessons were delivered, Proof the message had made it into the classroom. And once it did, it showed up everywhere. This is from one of his recordings. After school used to mean clubs and sports. Now those spaces morphed into something like grenade throwing contests. Even the ABCs were repurposed. A is for army, they said. B is for brotherhood. And in history class, a rewriting of the past.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

And in this one lesson, a teacher said in the very, very beginning when all this began, that Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, we're all one people. We share the same fairy tales we share so much culturally. But unfortunately, now Ukraine has turned to Nazism and we must see save them.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Watching the teachers deliver propaganda, the weight of what he was filming began to sink in.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

And I realized from that moment that what I was capturing here was an archive and a chronicle, that I was filming history. And what I was filming is an answer to the question in five or ten years of why this generation is who they are.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Pasha wasn't just hearing the propaganda. He was watching how it was built. Because a country isn't just shaped on the battlefield. Sometimes it's shaped somewhere quieter. Vladimir Putin clearly understands this. Commanders don't win wars, he once said. Teachers do. And Pasha was watching that idea take hold right before his eyes. And in no time at all, the students and their teachers weren't just receiving the message from Moscow, they were performing it.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

All of a sudden, we had to have the children sing songs that we would film, and then they would be sent off to the front. They had to write letters to soldiers. The students were instructed to put the letter Z, which is a sign of support for the war, and glue that and paste it up everywhere on different places.

[Dina Temple Raston]

The letter Z, first seen painted on Russian military vehicles, had quickly become a public symbol of support for the invasion. It started to show up all over the school, on posters, on walls, until it was almost impossible to see the school without seeing it. At first, it felt performative. Sometimes Pasha's camera caught teachers rolling their eyes or students snickering. Even some of the youngest could see right through it.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

For example, there's this moment in the film where it said to the teacher, blink twice if you're being forced to say all of this. And she very clearly blinks twice. And then the children understood everything.

[Dina Temple Raston]

But over time, something shifted. The absurd became familiar and the familiar became acceptable, like on the school's social media channel.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

All of a sudden, these posts started appearing on the school page of make sure that you support the war, that older kids should sign up, Everybody should contribute money to the war effort.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Soon teachers were donating items like socks and canned meat, and then chipping in money to help fund the war.

[David Borenstein]

So was it the propaganda itself that was so painful for you, or was it watching people that you'd known for so long change?

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

For me, the most painful thing was how simple it all wound up seeming.

[Dina Temple Raston]

That was the part that stayed with him. Not the size of it, not even the content, but the ease. It was so upsetting to Pasha that he started to push back. Not openly, not in an obvious way, but with a small test to see if anyone was really watching.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

So I decided to conduct a little experiment. I filmed the beginning of a lesson, and I filmed the end of the lesson. And I left everything in the middle, black. So it was an academic hour of 45 minutes, but there was no content in the middle. And I sent all of that off as a completed work. And I was sitting and waiting. Will they come back to me and criticize me?

[Dina Temple Raston]

Nothing came back. No comment, no reprimand. No one had checked. And that told him everything.

[David Borenstein]

Did you feel like they were trying to use you as a pawn?

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

That's exactly what it was. They were using me as a pawn. I was there, standing there as a figure for the teachers to say, watch out here watching you. I'm here filming you. Make sure you do everything correctly. Make sure you read from this paper and don't take a step to the left or the right. I am here.

[Dina Temple Raston]

But as the months passed, something shifted. The propaganda started getting louder, more direct and much more disturbing. That's when we come back. Stay with us. Support for Click here comes from NPR's Up first podcast. NPR understands your curiosity is boundless, but your time isn't. And that's what's so great about Up First. Everything you need to know to start your day in about 10 minutes. But there's another part of Upfirst you may not know about. They're awesome. At the deep dive, they recently focused on school choice and a city in Iowa closing elementary schools and a billionaire backed charter school with a playground in the cafeteria. And it gave me a new way at looking at the whole issue. Recent episodes looked at what the Iran war means for the US Economy and why Attorney General Pam Bondi's exit is a bigger deal than it first appears. All of this every morning in under 15 minutes. Up first does something most daily news shows don't. It asks better questions to get better answers. Not just about what happened, but how it came about, why it's important, what's to come. Which, if you think about it, is the difference between just knowing the news and understanding it. Follow NPR's Up first podcast so you can understand what matters and what happens next. It's hard news through a human lens.

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[Dina Temple Raston]

I use the World Wide Web Information superhighway. Cyber security. Why do things go viral? Click here. Welcome back. At first, the changes at Pasha School were subtle. A tweak to the curriculum, messages tucked into lessons. But then it became more heavy handed, morphing into something much harder to explain away. He remembers the day that became clear. The day fighters from the Wagner group, once a private mercenary force now operating under the state, showed up at the school for a show and tell. They had set up shop in the auditorium, and as part of the presentation, they were handing children landmines and rifles.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

It was horrible. Like one of them is talking about how he lost his leg. Another one is talking about how to kill people. Another one is talking about what weapons are better and which weapons are worse. And another one is saying, make sure you don't have your helmet tied fastened, because then you can wind up when you're shot, your head explodes.

[Dina Temple Raston]

That sound from inside the auditorium that day, footage Pasha recorded, and the popping you hear, that's a child handling and pulling the trigger of a semi automatic rifle. All presented as if it was just another lesson.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

It's disgusting. It was disgusting watching it.

[Dina Temple Raston]

By then, Pasha could see what all of this was doing to his students. The dissonance was everywhere between children at play and the military show and tell, between the realities of war and what they were being asked to say about it. And he began to see how it was affecting individual students like Masha. Masha's brother was being sent to fight in Ukraine and she was terrified for him. And at the same time, her teachers were sticking to the script, repeating over and over that the war was virtuous. Pasha couldn't understand how Masha was supposed to hold those two realities together.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

They don't understand what is it criminal that's being done to Masha. You know, it's very clear to actually understand if you just switch the words, let's, you know, let's call it cancer. Everyone knows that Masha's brother is going to die from cancer. He has cancer and he doesn't have long to live. But then Masha is forced to come to school and sing songs in praise of cancer and draw pictures about how wonderful cancer is and glue things on the wall saying, glory to cancer. Glory to cancer. And I mean, imagine what that must be like for somebody.

[Dina Temple Raston]

And it wasn't just Masha. It was everywhere.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

They were requiring teachers to buy socks. They had to bring canned milk and canned beef and toothbrushes. And what made me so angry was also how simple it all was. It's always A normal, yes, let's just throw some money in. Yes, yes, let's write these letters and let's do these lessons and let's send in these lessons.

[Dina Temple Raston]

That's when something started to shift in Pasha. Not all at once, just a growing sense that he couldn't let it pass. And it nudged him to do something not inside the system, but outside of it. Around that time, Pasha came across a message online. An American filmmaker was asking a simple question. How had jobs changed in Russia since the start of the war?

[David Borenstein]

Pasha wrote back, and you wrote that you were being asked to do the exact opposite of what you thought a teacher should do. What compelled you to send that?

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

I think it was theory that prompted me to send that, because at that moment, I was just so angry about what was happening.

[Dina Temple Raston]

And with that, Pasha had a different kind of audience. Not just the Ministry of Education, but someone who wanted to understand the truth of what was really happening. So he made a decision. He could do more than just reply to that message. He thought he could send this American filmmaker, David Borenstein, his footage. With something as simple as a video camera, Pasha, a lone teacher in a quiet corner of Russia, could reach far beyond his class classroom and show how propaganda actually works. Not as something loud or dramatic, but as something that settles in until it starts to feel ordinary. He tried to explain it to David,

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

and I showed him the picture. Barge Haulers on the Volga.

[Dina Temple Raston]

It's a famous 19th century Russian painting.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

These men along the Volga river, they are pulling the boat, but only one of them in the middle, a young man, his head is up and he's looking off in the distance, and he has his hand on his chest and he's like, what? Why? Why are we forced to do this? Why do we need to do this?

[Dina Temple Raston]

For Pasha, that painting helped him make sense of what he was seeing. A system carried forward by the very people. It was weighing down because no one stopped to ask why. So Pasha decided to do what the man in the painting did. Ask that question in his own way, by showing the world his videos. Every day, Pasha would film, then copy the footage and then secretly send it to David. Carefully, deliberately. He did it for months, all the while never quite sure who might be paying attention. And by 2023, someone was.

[David Borenstein]

You start to sense that danger is closing in. And one day you notice a police car outside.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

One day, that car appeared outside my window. It arrived at 8am it left at 8pm There were people sitting in it. I could see them. Occasionally they go out to the store and they get A coffee. They come back. I mean, and I know everybody in my building. I know all of my neighbors. I know their cars. They always park in the same city spots. I know all the local police. And who these people were, I don't know.

[Dina Temple Raston]

He considered staying in Russia and just moving to some other town, but the laws were changing. What you could say, what you could film, what counted as a crime.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

All of these very restrictive and repressive laws started being passed that it became illegal to speak about the war or to say anything negative about the war. And certain acts became treasonous. And it just became impossible.

[Dina Temple Raston]

So he made a choice. He left the school, the town, his country. And the footage he was sending to that filmmaker became something else, a film. He's the narrator and one of the directors of a documentary called Mr. Nobody Against Putin. It premiered and exactly what Pacha had hoped for happened. People all over the world heard what he was trying to say. At the Sundance Film Festival, the documentary started to build a buzz. A little hum at first that just kept growing until finally.

[Cybersecurity News Announcer]

And the Oscar for documentary feature film goes to. Mr. Nobody against Putin.

[David Borenstein]

David Borenstein, what has been your favorite response from people in Karabash to the film?

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

We're waiting for you to come visit. We're going to break your knees and you're going to crawl on the ground and apologize in front of all of us. That's my favorite response to the film.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Oh, my goodness.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

Even the Kremlin's press secretary, Peskov, was asked about it at a press conference. They describe the film as a film about the changes in the educational system. They don't use the word propaganda and they never refer to the name of the film, Mr. Nobody against Putin.

[David Borenstein]

So looking back on it now, Pasha, do you feel like you were documenting propaganda or documenting how propaganda reshapes people?

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

First it becomes part of the routine and it's more difficult. Oh, why are they making us do this? And we're forced to do this. But then it just becomes the culture of like what you do every day and just part of the educational system. And after that, it becomes a cage into which people walk. People are walking into this cage, but the doors are still open. But nobody is leaving because it's more comfortable there.

[Dina Temple Raston]

They didn't walk into it all at once, but step by step, lesson by lesson, until the thing reshaping their reality felt like just a normal day at school. That was Pasha Talankin, the star and co creator of Mr. Nobody against Putin Now a Oscar winning documentary. And special thanks to filmmaker and Mr. Nobody executive producer Robin Hessman, who did the amazing real time interpretation that made our conversation with Pasha possible. This is qlik here.

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This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at o d o o.com that's o d o o.com this

[Dina Temple Raston]

show is supported by Human Rights Watch. There are more displaced people in the world than at any time since World War II. The great unrooting is a limited series that tells this epic story through the eyes of a young man from Myanmar. Where do you go when you have to flee? What do you take with you? What if they don't want you when you get there? It's a story of flight and survival, of climate change and social media, of borders and passports and hope. The Great Unrooting from Human Rights Watch wherever you get your podcasts if you're

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looking for a daily guide to cybersecurity news and policy, sign up for the Cyber Daily from Recorded Future News. It serves up the day's most interesting and important cyber stories from our sister publication the Record, and then aggregates all of the big cyber stories you might have missed from news outlets around the world. Just go to TheRecord Media and click on Cyber Daily to get all you need to know about the world of cybersecurity right in your inbox.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Here's what you need to know about the tech world this week. It's Tuesday, May 5th, first new reporting out of Washington. The Trump administration is weighing whether to vet advanced AI models before they're released to the public, according to a report in the New York Times. Officials are discussing whether companies should be required to submit their most powerful systems for government review, citing national security concerns. One possibility an executive order that creates an AI working group of tech executives and government officials to consider how the oversight might work, or perhaps develop a system that would give the government first access to new AI models. An AI review would be an about face for the Trump administration. It rolled back Biden administration efforts to have AI developers perform safety evaluation and report on AI models with possible military applications before they release them. Meanwhile, Elon Musk has spent days on the witness stand in California as part of his lawsuit against OpenAI. Musk was one of OpenAI's founders and he's suing the company for abandoning its non profit mission to build AI for the benefit of humanity. In instead, he argues it's now just another profit driven tech company. I was a fool. I gave them free funding to create a startup. That's what Elon Musk told the court today in his big trial against OpenAI. Musk, who now runs a rival AI company, wants OpenAI's leadership, including founder Sam Altman, removed. Observers say the case is about more than just a personal feud, although it's about that too. Fundamentally, it's about the control who shapes AI, who profits from it, and whether something this powerful can really serve the public while operating as a business. And then a story that sounds like a nightmare AI scenario.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

This morning, questions are being raised about the safety of artificial intelligence after a tech CEO claimed an AI tool wiped out all of his company's Data in just nine seconds.

[Dina Temple Raston]

A startup called PocketOS says one of its AI agents made a single call to its cloud system and deleted its entire production database. The company's founder said it wasn't just some crazy mistake. The AI agent acknowledged that it had violated its own safeguards, but did it anyway. The data was eventually recovered, and critics say you shouldn't blame the AI. It's the human who gave the agent too much access. Cautionary tales like this have been piling up recently. In March, Amazon tightened internal rules after an AI coding error lost 6.3 million orders. Instead of Vibe coding, this seems to be a case of Vibe deleting. Meanwhile, Meta just hit a great wall in China.

[Pavel Talankin (Pasha)]

China ordering to cancel Meta's $2 billion acquisition of agentic AI startup Manus.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Beijing blocked Meta's attempt to buy Manus, an emerging leader in so called agenic AI. Agenic AI are systems that don't just chat. They act, they can write code, they can book travel, and they can make decisions. Meta wanted in to Manus his systems and China said no way. And finally, Palantir Technologies, a company known for its surveillance software, has a new product, jackets. Palantir is releasing a French chore jacket. And if you thought those two things in the same sentence were weird, you're right. Yes, a chore coat originally worn by French laborers, but now reimagined as part of what Palantir calls its mission to re industrialize America. The coats are made in Montana and they cost $239 and they're already sold out. Critics see it as a branding ploy a bid by Palantir to gain cultural credibility. But fashion insiders warn that a surveillance linked company and its supporters will probably always struggle with pulling off being cool. Click Here is a production of Recorded Future News and prx. Today's show was written and produced by Megan Dietrich, Sean Powers, Erica Gaeda, Zach Hirsch and Casey Georgi. It was edited by Karen Duffin and Sarah Covedo and fact checked by Darren Ancrum. Original music is by Ben Levingston with additional music from Blue Dot Sessions. Our staff writer is Lucas Riley, our illustrator is Megan Gough, and our sound designers and engineers are Jake Cook and Jesse Niswonger. Find us on X or Facebook at Click Here. Show or leave us a voice message at 661-5ch. Talk sometimes we'll turn those moments into recording, sometimes into a conversation, and sometimes into a future story you'll hear on this show. I'm Dina Temple Raston and thanks for listening.

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Act first if you're looking for a daily guide to cybersecurity news and policy, sign up for the Cyber Daily from Recorded Future News. It serves up today's most interesting and important cyber stories from our sister publication the Record, and then aggregates all of the big cyber stories you might have missed from news outlets around the world. Just go to TheRecord Media and click on Cyber Daily to get all you need to know about the world of cybersecurity right in your inbox.