Click Here Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Mic Drop: A Former North Korean IT Worker Speaks
Host: Dina Temple-Raston
Release Date: May 30, 2025

Introduction

In the "Mic Drop" episode of Click Here, host Dina Temple-Raston delves into the shadowy world of North Korea’s cyber operations through the personal narrative of Kim Ji Min, a former IT worker who defected from the regime. This episode offers a rare and intimate look into how North Korea leverages its cyber workforce to conduct global cybercrimes, highlighting the human cost behind these digital threats.

Kim Ji Min’s Story: Life as a North Korean Cyber Operative

Kim Ji Min, a defector from Pyongyang, provides a firsthand account of his life within North Korea's cyber army. Selected for his computer skills, Kim was part of a covert team responsible for executing cyber attacks and financial scams abroad.

“When you first go abroad, you can still feel good for about three years. It's much better than being in North Korea. But those years fly by so fast.”
— Kim Ji Min [00:17]

Kim describes a highly regimented environment where each team operates under strict supervision. Failure to meet expectations leads to severe consequences, including being sent back to North Korea to be replaced.

“It's like the military and each team has a leader. If someone can't do their job, that person is sent back to North Korea and substituted with someone new.”
— Kim Ji Min [01:00]

These cyber operatives are tasked with sophisticated scams, such as sending malware-laden resumes and using AI-generated images to deceive job applicants, primarily targeting the US market.

“The main market for the North Korean IT workers is the US market.”
— Kim Ji Min [06:32]

PS Corps NGO: Humanizing North Korean Cyber Workers

Dina converses with Bada Nam, the Secretary General of PS Corps, a Seoul-based NGO dedicated to understanding and aiding North Korean defectors. Bada Nam shares his journey from growing up in South Korea amidst anti-North Korean propaganda to recognizing the shared humanity of those on the other side of the DMZ.

“I realized that they are kind of the same people. They are under the oppression of the brutal regime. And actually, we were one family for 5,000 years and just separated for 70 years.”
— Bada Nam [04:40]

His work at PS Corps has shed light on the coercive conditions faced by North Korean cyber workers, who are often viewed not merely as enemies but as victims of a repressive state.

North Korea’s Cyber Operations: Training and Exploitation

North Korea identifies and trains individuals with aptitude in computer science from a young age. These IT workers are sent abroad, usually to countries like China or Russia, where they operate under constant surveillance and pressure to meet strict quotas.

“North Korea started sending IT workers abroad in large numbers in the 2010s. At that time, it was considered a great opportunity if you could go abroad.”
— Kim Ji Min [06:51]

Living in dorm-style accommodations, these operatives share resources and collaborate under immense stress. Their earnings are largely siphoned off by the regime, with only a small percentage returned to them.

“If they meet the quota, they get a cut maybe 20% of what they earn. The rest goes straight to the regime.”
— Kim Ji Min [07:32]

To ensure compliance, families of these workers remain in North Korea, acting as leverage to prevent defection and maintain control.

“Every North Korean who's going abroad, they need to leave their families back in North Korea, kind of like hostages.”
— Bada Nam [07:47]

Evolution of Cyber Threats: The Integration of AI

The episode highlights the evolving nature of North Korea’s cyber capabilities, particularly through the development of AI by their cyber units like Research Center 227. This advancement aims to enhance phishing techniques, create more convincing deepfakes, and develop fake influencers to manipulate public opinion and spread propaganda.

“The goal, smarter phishing scams, deepfake recruiters, fake influencers who look just real enough.”
— Dina Temple-Raston [10:07]

Bada Nam warns that the integration of AI will lead to more sophisticated and unpredictable cyber threats, as North Korean operatives become increasingly creative in their methods.

“Very creative. Ways than we expected.”
— Bada Nam [10:44]

Defection and Advocacy: Kim Ji Min’s New Life

After defecting, Kim Ji Min resides in South Korea, where he continues to work in the IT sector. Despite earning less due to his inability to participate in illicit activities like money laundering, he remains committed to advocating for the rights and improved conditions of former North Korean IT workers.

“He is very happy now and he wanted to improve the IT workers human rights.”
— Bada Nam [12:02]

Kim’s advocacy work underscores the ongoing struggles faced by defectors and the broader implications for human rights within North Korea’s cyber operations.

Conclusion

"Mic Drop" presents a compelling exploration of North Korea's cyber warfare apparatus through the lens of personal experiences and expert insights. By humanizing the cyber operatives and revealing the oppressive conditions they endure, the episode emphasizes the intersection of human rights and global cybersecurity threats. Kim Ji Min’s story serves as a poignant reminder of the individuals behind the digital attacks that impact the world.

Notable Quotes

• “The stress and isolation drove many to insanity.”
  — Kim Ji Min [01:29]

• “We were one family for 5,000 years and just separated for 70 years.”
  — Bada Nam [04:40]

• “Every North Korean who's going abroad, they need to leave their families back in North Korea, kind of like hostages.”
  — Bada Nam [07:47]

• “It's like watching colored television in China. Then entering North Korea, it felt like switching to black and white.”
  — Kim Ji Min [11:42]

• “The goal, smarter phishing scams, deepfake recruiters, fake influencers who look just real enough.”
  — Dina Temple-Raston [10:07]

Final Thoughts

This episode of "Click Here" illuminates the often-overlooked human dimension of cyber warfare, revealing how a repressive regime like North Korea harnesses technological expertise for malicious purposes. By sharing Kim Ji Min’s experience and featuring insights from PS Corps, Dina Temple-Raston effectively underscores the pressing need to address both cybersecurity threats and the underlying human rights violations that fuel them.