Mic Drop: Frank McCourt wants TikTok to help him reinvent the internet

Summary

Podcast Summary: Click Here - "Mic Drop: Frank McCourt Wants TikTok to Help Him Reinvent the Internet"

Release Date: March 14, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Mic Drop: Frank McCourt Wants TikTok to Help Him Reinvent the Internet," Click Here delves into the ambitious plans of billionaire Frank McCourt. Known for his previous ventures, including owning the Los Angeles Dodgers, McCourt is now poised to reshape the digital landscape through his innovative Project Liberty. Hosted by Dina Temple-Raston from Recorded Future News, the episode explores McCourt's vision for a decentralized internet and his strategic move to acquire TikTok as a catalyst for this transformation.

Frank McCourt’s Vision for the Internet

Frank McCourt opens the discussion by critiquing the current state of the internet. He asserts that the digital realm has evolved into a double-edged sword:

"It's made us dumber. It's corrupted our information ecosystem. It's very difficult to separate fact from fiction. We're barely governable, we're polarized. Children are being harmed and taken advantage of. There's a lot broken with the Internet." (03:12)

McCourt reflects on the initial optimism surrounding the internet, which was believed to be inherently democratizing and a tool for advancing civilization:

"We thought the Internet was kind of inherently a good thing. We thought it was inherently democratizing somehow it was going to make us all smarter and advance civilization." (03:30)

He emphasizes the detrimental concentration of power and data in the hands of a few tech titans:

"I just would urge your listeners, when every time they hear the word data, think personhood. It's who we are in the digital age and we should own ourselves." (03:55)

McCourt warns of the existential threats posed by current internet structures, where big platforms manipulate user behavior and infringe on personal freedoms:

"I think people are understanding more and more and quickly that it's having these big platforms have all this information about each of us is not a great thing. But having these big platforms be able to affect the way we think and manipulate us is a very, very bad thing." (04:22)

Introducing Project Liberty and DSNP

In response to these challenges, McCourt introduces Project Liberty, an initiative aimed at overhauling the internet’s foundational structures. At the heart of Project Liberty is the Decentralized Social Networking Protocol (DSNP), which seeks to return control to individual users.

"Project Liberty is really about bringing the Internet forward in a way that takes all of the good things that the Internet provides and actually fix and address the obvious design flaws in a way that will make it a more powerful tool for people and not a more powerful tool to exploit people." (04:49)

Decentralized Social Networking Protocol (DSNP)

DSNP is envisioned as a new protocol that empowers individuals to manage their own identities, data, and relationships without reliance on centralized platforms. McCourt draws a parallel to the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which revolutionized phone number ownership:

"It's a protocol which actually enables individuals to interact directly, to be in control on the Internet. Not have data being scraped by large platforms, but rather we as individuals would own our identity, our data, our relationships and permission, its use." (05:32)

He explains that DSNP would ensure interoperability among apps, preventing user lock-in and fostering a more open digital ecosystem:

"And imagine the apps as modern day telcos. They should be interoperable. You shouldn't be stuck on a single app. With all your relationships that you've built up over time." (06:25)

This approach aims to streamline user experiences by allowing single sign-ons across multiple applications, eliminating the need for numerous passwords:

"This new Internet, where you have a single sign on, you don't have 50 passwords that you have to remember for 50 different apps because the apps are built using the same protocol, you have access to all of them." (06:40)

Current Progress and Adoption

As of the episode's release, DSNP has garnered approximately 2 million users, with projections aiming for 30 million by year-end. Although this is a modest number compared to the global internet population of 5.5 billion, McCourt highlights partnerships with smaller platforms like MeWe and We Are Eight as initial steps toward broader adoption.

Strategic Move to Acquire TikTok

The crux of McCourt's strategy centers on acquiring TikTok amidst legislative pressures to remove its Chinese ownership. In April 2024, when the U.S. House passed a bill mandating the sale of TikTok to a non-Chinese entity, McCourt saw an opportunity to leverage his resources and vision for Project Liberty:

"Actually, I was in the back of an suv and the news came forward that this legislation had passed." (07:48)

Frank swiftly positioned himself as a potential buyer, proposing a $20 billion bid to acquire TikTok’s American operations. His offer aims to dissociate the app from its Chinese backend, algorithm, and technology, addressing national security concerns:

"We would be the best buyer and maybe the only viable buyer because we've built the full stack from the bottom up. That solves for the national security concerns that drove the legislation in the first instance." (08:22)

Despite confidence in his proposal, McCourt acknowledges the uncertainties surrounding China's willingness to sell:

"The honest answer to your question is we don't know what China is going to do. We don't know if they're going to sell us TikTok or just shut it down. That's the big question right now." (09:35)

Engagement with the White House

McCourt has engaged in dialogues with the White House, specifically with Vice President J.D. Vance’s office, to advance his bid for TikTok:

"But I can confirm that we've been in dialogue with the White House and with Vice President Vance's office, and those are active conversations." (09:26)

While the discussions remain ongoing, the outcome of these negotiations is pivotal for both TikTok’s future and the broader implementation of Project Liberty.

Future Implications

Should McCourt succeed in acquiring TikTok, it could serve as a launchpad for deploying DSNP on a massive scale, potentially transforming the internet into a more user-centric and decentralized ecosystem. However, even if the acquisition does not materialize, McCourt remains committed to advancing Project Liberty:

"One thing that's going to happen for sure is that Project Liberty is going to continue down the path that it's going on. Whether it buy us TikTok or not, we're going to continue to move forward." (10:00)

He underscores the urgency of redesigning the internet to return data ownership and control to individuals, framing it as an essential evolution rather than a mere upgrade:

"We're all connected morning, noon and night, and I think we're at a very important, you know, fork in the road. Are we going to be kind of dragged into a future where everything about us is owned by someone else? Or are we going to design and build the future we want, which actually returns to people what is rightfully theirs, in my opinion, which is everything about us." (10:00)

Conclusion

The episode paints a comprehensive picture of Frank McCourt’s ambitious plans to overhaul the internet's current architecture through Project Liberty and DSNP. By attempting to acquire TikTok, McCourt aims to leverage a popular platform as a cornerstone for his vision of a decentralized, user-empowered digital world. While the success of this endeavor remains uncertain, McCourt's commitment highlights the growing discourse around data ownership, internet governance, and the future of digital interactions. Listeners gain insight into the complexities of internet infrastructure and the high-stakes maneuvers undertaken by influential figures seeking to shape its trajectory.

Notable Quotes Highlighted

• Frank McCourt (00:27): "I don't want to imply that when I launched Project Liberty In December of 2019, I was thinking that TikTok was going to be banned someday. That was not in it at all. But we happen to have a solution that solves the riddle. And it would be a wonderful way to catalyze this upgraded Internet, this alternative Internet."

• Frank McCourt (03:12): "It's Made us dumber. It's corrupted our information ecosystem. It's very difficult to separate fact from fiction. We're barely governable, we're polarized. Children are being harmed and taken advantage of. There's a lot broken with the Internet."

• Frank McCourt (04:22): "I think people are understanding more and more and quickly that it's having these big platforms have all this information about each of us is not a great thing. But having these big platforms be able to affect the way we think and manipulate us is a very, very bad thing."

• Frank McCourt (05:32): "It's a protocol which actually enables individuals to interact directly, to be in control on the Internet. Not have data being scraped by large platforms, but rather we as individuals would own our identity, our data, our relationships and permission, its use."

• Frank McCourt (08:22): "We would be the best buyer and maybe the only viable buyer because we've built the full stack from the bottom up. That solves for the national security concerns that drove the legislation in the first instance."

• Frank McCourt (10:00): "Are we going to be kind of dragged into a future where everything about us is owned by someone else? Or are we going to design and build the future we want, which actually returns to people what is rightfully theirs, in my opinion, which is everything about us."

Final Thoughts

Frank McCourt’s endeavor represents a significant push towards redefining digital ownership and control. Whether through the acquisition of TikTok or continued advancements in Project Liberty, the implications of his actions could resonate deeply across the global internet landscape. This episode of Click Here offers listeners a thought-provoking exploration of these developments, framing the ongoing struggle between centralized power and individual autonomy in the digital age.

Transcript

[Dena Temple-Rast]

From Recorded Future News and prx, this is Click Here.

[Frank McCourt]

We have a solution.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

Purely coincidentally, that's Frank McCourt, billionaire, former owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers and now the man who wants to rewrite the DNA of the Internet.

[Frank McCourt]

I don't want to imply that when I launched Project Liberty In December of 2019, I was thinking that TikTok was going to be banned someday. That was not in it at all. But we happen to have a solution that solves the riddle. And it would be a wonderful way to catalyze this upgraded Internet, this alternative Internet.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

Once he built sports empires and skyscrapers. She is gone. Now he's in the business of building a better world, World Wide Web. And he has a plan. A plan that just may hinge on the forced sale of TikTok. From Recorded Future News, this is Click Here's Mic Drop. A longer listen to one of our favorite interviews of the week. I'm Dena Temple Rest. And today, a dark horse in the race to buy America's favorite video app, TikTok. TikTok's Chinese parent company has a cut ties with its American arm or risk being cut off entirely. Enter Frank McCord. He wants to reinvent the Internet. Who owns our data, how it's shared, who profits. And as fate would have it, this TikTok showdown might be just the opportunity he's been waiting for.

[Frank McCourt]

For me, the TikTok legislation was really a. A gift.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

Stay with us. Click Here is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Morgan Sung]

Hi, I'm Morgan Sung, host of Close All Tabs from kqed where every week we reveal how the online world collides with everyday life.

[Frank McCourt]

You don't know what's true or not.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

Because you don't know if AI was involved in it.

[Morgan Sung]

So my first reaction was, ha ha, this is so funny. And my next reaction was, wait a minute, I'm a journalist. Is this real?

[Dena Temple-Rast]

And I think we will see a twitch streamer president.

[Frank McCourt]

Maybe within our lifetimes.

[Morgan Sung]

You can find Close all tabs wherever. Listen to podcasts.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

I'm Dena Temple Roost and this is Click here's mic drop. Frank McCourt doesn't really sugarcoat things, particularly not when it comes to the Internet and what he thinks is wrong with it.

[Frank McCourt]

It's Made us dumber. It's corrupted our information ecosystem. It's very difficult to separate fact from fiction. We're barely governable, we're polarized. Children are being harmed and taken advantage of. There's a lot broken with the Internet.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

That wasn't how it started. He said.

[Frank McCourt]

We thought the Internet was kind of inherently a good thing. We thought it was inherently democratizing somehow it was going to make us all smarter and advance civilization.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

But instead of empowering individuals, he says it has enriched a handful of tech titans who hoover up our personal data. Data, or as he thinks of it, our personhood.

[Frank McCourt]

I just would urge your listeners, when every time they hear the word data, think personhood. It's who we are in the digital age and we should own ourselves.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

These tech titans, of course, don't just collect our data, they profit from it. And yet we continue to give away our data freely. Click. I agree. Accept cookies, trade privacy for convenience. And Frank says it's more than just a bad deal, it's an existential threat.

[Frank McCourt]

I think people are understanding more and more and quickly that it's having these big platforms have all this information about each of us is not a great thing. But having these big platforms be able to affect the way we think and manipulate us is a very, very bad thing.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

This is what inspired Frank to create what he calls Project Liberty.

[Frank McCourt]

Project Liberty is really about bringing the Internet forward in a way that takes all of the good things that the Internet provides and actually fix and address the obvious design flaws in a way that will make it a more powerful tool for people and not a more powerful tool to exploit people.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

At its core, Project Liberty is a new foundation for the web, a new protocol. He calls it dsnp, the Decentralized Social Networking Protocol.

[Frank McCourt]

It's a protocol which actually enables individuals to interact directly, to be in control on the Internet. Not have data being scraped by large platforms, but rather we as individuals would own our identity, our data, our relationships and permission, its use.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

What he thinks DSMP could do is a little similar to what the Telecommunications act did back in 1996. Before the act, your phone number belonged to the carrier. If you switch companies, you lost your number. Just about everybody hated that. Then the law changed. Your number became yours. Frank says DSMP would do that for people's online data. Today, if an influencer leaves Instagram, they leave their audience behind. Under dsmp, they could take their followers with them.

[Frank McCourt]

And imagine the apps as modern day telcos. They should be interoperable. You shouldn't be stuck on a single app. With all your relationships that you've built up over time.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

This would make it harder for any website to lock you in.

[Frank McCourt]

This new Internet, where you have a single sign on, you don't have 50 passwords that you have to remember for 50 different apps because the apps are built using the same protocol, you have access to all of them.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

Frank has already launched DSNP. He says it already has about 2 million users. And if momentum keeps building, the number could hit 30 million by year's end. Which sounds impressive, but in the grand scheme of the Internet, where 5.5 billion people are connected, it's barely a drop in the digital ocean. A few smaller platforms like MeWe and We Are Eight have signed on. But for DSNP to truly take off, it needs something bigger. A major player, a name that carries weight. And that's where TikTok comes in. In April 2024, when the house passed a bill to force the sale of TikTok, Frank immediately saw an opening. So where were you when you decided this whole TikTok ban might be a gift? Or did you see it coming?

[Frank McCourt]

Actually, I was in the back of an suv and the news came forward that this was. This legislation had passed.

[Morgan Sung]

New at 11, a bill that could ban TikTok here in the now headed to President Biden's desk for his son.

[Frank McCourt]

Started a conversation saying, look, let's check, but I think our technology actually coincidentally meets the criteria.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

The Bill demanded that TikTok's American operations be sold to a non Chinese owner. And McCork says he's already made a bid and submitted it to the Chinese with a simple argument.

[Frank McCourt]

We would be the best buyer and maybe the only viable buyer because we've built the full stack from the bottom up. That solves for the national security concerns that drove the legislation in the first instance. We're hoping that. That China and ByteDance decide to sell us TikTok without the back end, without the algorithm and the Chinese technology, and in which case we think we're in an excellent position to buy what's left.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

And is the $20 billion bid, is that. Is that number correct?

[Frank McCourt]

Yeah, we've been a bit circumspect about talking about numbers, but having said that, I've been fairly outspoken prior to formally submitting the bid, and our offer was consistent with my public comment.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

McCourt also has been in talks with the White house. Vice President J.D. vance is said to be leading the effort to find a buyer for the app. And Frank was coy about saying whether he'd talked with Vance directly.

[Frank McCourt]

But I can confirm that we've been in dialogue with the White House and with Vice President Vance's office, and those are active conversations.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

But will ByteDance and more importantly, Beijing, agree to sell?

[Frank McCourt]

The honest answer to your question is we don't know what China is going to do. We don't know if they're going to sell us TikTok or just shut it down. That's the big question right now.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

If Frank McCourt gets what he wants, TikTok could be the launch pad for his new decentralized Internet. And if he doesn't, he says he'll keep pushing.

[Frank McCourt]

One thing that's going to happen for sure is that Project Liberty is going to continue down the path that it's going on. Whether it buy us TikTok or not, we're going to continue to move forward. It's not like the Internet is a nice to have thing at this stage of the game. It's a must have. We're all connected morning, noon and night, and I think we're at a very important, you know, fork in the road. Are we going to be kind of dragged into a future where everything about us is owned by someone else? Or are we going to design and build the future we want, which actually returns to people what is rightfully theirs, in my opinion, which is everything about us. It should be ours to determine how it's used.

[Morgan Sung]

Foreign.

[Dena Temple-Rast]

Future News this has been Click Here's Mic Drop. It was written and produced by Erica Gaeda, Megan Dietrich, Sean Powers and me, Dina Temple Rested. It was edited by Karen Duffett. We'll be back on Tuesday with an all new episode of Click Here. Have a great weekend.

[Unknown]

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