Mic Drop: In crypto’s defense

Summary

Podcast Summary: Click Here – Episode “Mic Drop: In Crypto’s Defense”

Introduction

In the June 6, 2025 episode of Click Here, titled “Mic Drop: In Crypto’s Defense,” host Dina Temple-Raston delves deep into the tumultuous intersection of cryptocurrency and politics. Featuring insights from Omid Malooki, a renowned crypto educator at Columbia Business School, the episode navigates through recent controversial events, legislative developments, and the evolving perception of crypto in both investment and geopolitical arenas.

Trump’s Foray into Cryptocurrency

The episode opens with a heated discussion about a recent event where 220 individuals, many foreign nationals, were invited to a dinner with then-President Trump. Touted as a celebration, the dinner was widely criticized for its underwhelming execution—ranging from subpar food to minimal engagement from the President himself.

Notable Incident and Initial Reactions

At [00:02], Dina Temple-Raston introduces Omid Malooki, affectionately known as “the explainer of all things crypto.” The conversation quickly shifts to the dinner, highlighting the dissonance between its advertised purpose and actual outcome. Michael Colori, a guest voice, expresses his disappointment:

“I am very disappointed with the dinner. I'm very disappointed that President Trump didn't spend more time at the event.” ([01:14])

Dina contrasts this feedback by noting that many in the crypto community see Trump's participation as a positive signal for the future of cryptocurrency investments.

Trump’s Dual Impact on Crypto

Omid Malooki elaborates on this duality at [02:31], stating:

“You have people who are just excited that we have a sitting president who embraces and believes in this technology to the point of even using it.”

He acknowledges that Trump's involvement in crypto is a double-edged sword. While it brings visibility and potential institutional confidence, it also opens the door to misuse and politicization of the technology. Malooki explains:

“I think it cuts both ways. I still think that a lot of what Trump has done and will hopefully continue to do, will long term actually be very good for crypto. But then the downside is Trump's use of the technology for things like his own coin. Foreign.” ([03:17])

The Duality of Cryptocurrency

Dina emphasizes that this conflict of duality is inherent within the crypto ecosystem itself:

“Says that the duality isn't new. In fact, it's kind of baked into crypto more generally. It's a tool full of promise and problems.” ([03:43])

Malooki concurs, pointing out the community's familiarity with controversies:

“This is a community that is no stranger to people claiming to be doing things that they believe were for good of the economy, society, crypto, but then turned out to be just a way for them to make money.” ([03:51])

This sentiment underscores the persistent challenges within the crypto space, where innovation often coexists with speculative and sometimes unscrupulous endeavors.

Tiramisu Theory: Layers of Crypto Evolution

Introducing his proprietary “tiramisu theory” at [04:44], Malooki presents a metaphor for the evolution of crypto:

“Anytime society is on the verge of some kind of a major transformation, something starts as a joke and then ends up becoming really serious.”

He breaks down the theory into three layers:

1. The Idea Layer: Initial, promising concepts.
2. The Derivative Layer: Misuse or trivial applications, often leading to the perception of "stupidity."
3. The Innovation Layer: Genuine, impactful advancements that realize the technology’s potential.

Currently, Malooki identifies meme coins as residing in the "stupid" layer:

“Right now, Meme coins very much in the stupid.” ([05:29])

Conversely, stablecoins are thriving in the "brilliant" category, showcasing the constructive applications of cryptocurrency.

Stablecoins and the Genius Act

Stablecoins, pegged to real-world assets like the US dollar and operating borderlessly, represent the most promising facet of crypto, according to Malooki. He highlights their practical applications:

“Every day we're seeing new potential applications or integration. Things like lowering fees, speeding up payments, improving remittances, so forth and so on.” ([05:51])

Dina transitions the conversation to legislative efforts supporting stablecoins, specifically the "Genius Act." This bill aims to legitimize stablecoins, providing regulatory clarity essential for institutional participation. Malooki elaborates:

“I think it will also really professionalize the industry because one of the downsides of crypto being mostly unregulated is that major institutions have not been willing to participate with it.” ([08:10])

The Genius Act is portrayed as a gateway for big banks, fintechs, and tech companies to engage more deeply with stablecoin technologies, potentially fostering widespread adoption and innovation.

Legislative Challenges and Conflicts of Interest

However, the Genius Act faces significant hurdles. As the bill gains momentum, opposition arises, not solely from anti-crypto sentiments but from alleged conflicts of interest within its proponents. Specifically, concerns have been raised about Trump’s promotion of stablecoins while his sons are linked to World Liberty Financial, a firm preparing to launch its own stablecoin.

“Democrats have cried foul. Not because they're anti crypto necessarily, but because of the conflicts of interest.” ([09:35])

This controversy has cast a shadow over the legislation, causing uncertainty about its future.

Cryptocurrency Market Surge and Political Influence

Amidst legislative debates, the crypto market has experienced significant growth. Bitcoin has surpassed the $100,000 mark, and the industry has actively engaged in political fundraising. Notably, in the 2024 elections, the crypto sector donated approximately $130 million to pro-crypto candidates, including figures like Trump and Vance.

“Like it or not, that money helped put this administration in the White House. And that means we're not debating whether crypto will shape our future anymore.” ([10:17])

This substantial financial influence has cemented crypto’s role in the political landscape, ensuring that its future trajectory remains intertwined with governmental policies and regulatory frameworks.

Optimism Amidst Controversy

Despite the controversies and legislative setbacks, Malooki maintains an optimistic outlook on the future of cryptocurrency:

“If my thesis that this technology will be transformative for society in a positive way comes true, then eventually we'll sort of forget about the shady stuff that went on in the early years and the focus will be on the benefits that lots of people get from it.” ([10:48])

This perspective reflects a belief that, over time, the foundational benefits of crypto—such as financial inclusion, efficiency, and innovation—will overshadow its early tumultuous phases.

Conclusion

Dina Temple-Raston wraps up the episode by summarizing the key discussions, emphasizing the complex interplay between political influences, legislative efforts, and the inherent duality of cryptocurrency. The episode underscores that while crypto continues to navigate through challenges—from political entanglements to market volatility—it remains a transformative force poised to redefine financial and technological landscapes.

Notable Quotes

• Michael Colori ([01:14]): “I am very disappointed with the dinner. I'm very disappointed that President Trump didn't spend more time at the event.”

• Omid Malooki ([03:17]): “I think it cuts both ways. I still think that a lot of what Trump has done and will hopefully continue to do, will long term actually be very good for crypto. But then the downside is Trump's use of the technology for things like his own coin. Foreign.”

• Omid Malooki ([04:44]): “Anytime society is on the verge of some kind of a major transformation, something starts as a joke and then ends up becoming really serious.”

• Omid Malooki ([05:29]): “Right now, Meme coins very much in the stupid.”

• Omid Malooki ([08:10]): “I think it will also really professionalize the industry because one of the downsides of crypto being mostly unregulated is that major institutions have not been willing to participate with it.”

• Omid Malooki ([10:48]): “If my thesis that this technology will be transformative for society in a positive way comes true, then eventually we'll sort of forget about the shady stuff that went on in the early years and the focus will be on the benefits that lots of people get from it.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Click Here masterfully intertwines current events with in-depth analysis, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the dynamic and often contentious world of cryptocurrency. Through expert commentary and a balanced exploration of both the potentials and pitfalls of crypto, Dina Temple-Raston and Omid Malooki offer valuable perspectives for enthusiasts and skeptics alike.

Transcript

[Dina Temple Raston]

From Recorded Future News and prx, this is Click Here. You're sort of known as the explainer of all things crypto. So how did you end up finding yourself there?

[Omid Malooki]

Well, first I have to admit that I'm the one who invented that title.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Well, it worked. From Recorded Future News, this is Click Here's Mic Drop. A longer listen to one of our favorite interviews of the week. I'm Dina Temple Rowston. In Tuesday's episode, we looked at the national security implications of allowing 220 people to buy their way into a dinner with the President. Most of them were foreign nationals. Now, they called it a celebration, but what they got was a steak one attendee said tasted like it was from Walmart. A 23 minute visit from the President himself in what looked like a black trucker hat. So the reviews weren't, well, glowing.

[Michael Colori]

I am very disappointed with the dinner. I'm very disappointed that President Trump didn't spend more time at the event.

[Dina Temple Raston]

It was supposed to be access. Instead, it felt more like a clearance sale. So while many groused about the food and the presidential drive by, a lot of crypto bros seem to find a silver lining in the fact that the dinner happened at all.

[Omid Malooki]

This kind of shows that he's willing to do something with the coin for the future. It will give more confidence for investors and collectors.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Stay with us. Click Here is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary on how you buy. I'm Dina Templewurst and this is Click Here's Mic Drop.

[Omid Malooki]

You have people who are just excited that we have a sitting president who embraces and believes in this technology to the point of even using it.

[Dina Temple Raston]

That's the self professed explainer of all things crypto, Omid Maloukod. He teaches crypto and blockchain at Columbia Business School. And he's seen the industry weather winters, pump and dump schemes, collapses, and even hacks, which is why he wasn't surprised by the dinner or the backlash.

[Omid Malooki]

This is a community that is no stranger to controversy and everything that's come out of the Trump camp has at least been totally transparent in terms of what they're trying to do.

[Dina Temple Raston]

So do you think as a general matter, that Trump is bad for crypto?

[Omid Malooki]

I think it cuts both ways. I still think that a lot of what Trump has done and will hopefully continue to do, will long term actually be very good for crypto. But then the downside is Trump's use of the technology for things like his own coin. Foreign.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Says that the duality isn't new. In fact, it's kind of baked into crypto more generally. It's a tool full of promise and problems.

[Omid Malooki]

This is a community that is no stranger to people claiming to be doing things that they believe were for good of the economy, society, crypto, but then turned out to be just a way for them to make money.

[Dina Temple Raston]

But having someone as high profile as Donald Trump dip his toes in the least credible corner of crypto, some said it was priceless.

[Omid Malooki]

I would say that increasingly a lot of people in the industry are quietly embarrassed by things like the Trump meme coin and whatever goes on with it, like the dinner, because at the end of the day, it's not really showcasing anything important or special about technology.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Omid argues a lot of significant movements start in this way.

[Omid Malooki]

Anytime society is on the verge of some kind of a major transformation, something starts as a joke and then ends up becoming really serious.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Which brings us to what he calls.

[Omid Malooki]

His tiramisu theory, which is it's all, it all comes in layers. First an idea comes and it's really good, but then soon enough people come and do something with it or create a derivative of it that's really stupid. And just when you think like, oh God, they've ruined that, this is all very stupid, a third group of people show up and do a third thing that's actually interesting and innovative and possibly brilliant.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Right now. Meme coins very much in the stupid.

[Omid Malooki]

Layer where crypto is right now. I would say with stablecoins, that is very much in the brilliant camp so far.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Stablecoins are pegged to real world assets like the US dollar, and they're borderless.

[Omid Malooki]

Every day we're seeing new potential application or integration. Things like lowering fees, speeding up payments, improving remittances, so forth and so on. The most immediate benefits are in the financial domain, having to do with money, banking, finance. But there's also a lot of interesting experimentation being applied to all sorts of other activities, everything from social media to actually building a more decentralized Internet. Or even the hardware isn't controlled by mega corporations.

[Dina Temple Raston]

And that kind of optimism is reflected in legislation now making its way through Congress. That's when we come back. Stay with us.

[Lauren Good]

Hi, I'm Lauren Good. I'm a senior writer at Wired.

[Michael Colori]

I'm Michael Colori, Wired's director of consumer tech and culture.

[Lauren Good]

And I'm Zoe Schiffer, Director of business and industry, and we're the host of Wired's Uncanny Valley, a show about the people, power and influence of Silicon Valley.

[Michael Colori]

Every week we get together to talk about how technology and culture from the Valley are influencing our everyday lives.

[Lauren Good]

The Internet really was no longer about the early days. It was about minting money. He was swapping out the hoodie for.

[Michael Colori]

A suit and it just became like the shorthand for I'm the Silicon Valley hustle coder guy.

[Lauren Good]

Or we'll dive deep into the history of some of Silicon Valley's most important institutions and figures.

[Michael Colori]

So a lot of people point to parallels between Sam Altman and Steve Jobs.

[Lauren Good]

Very good for engagement, for Meta, for its bottom line, possibly or probably bad for humanity. I don't know if there's any single person that I would trust with this. Whether you're optimistic or absolutely terrified about what Silicon Valley will do next, this is the podcast for you.

[Michael Colori]

We'll be there to bring the analysis and reporting you can only get from Wired.

[Lauren Good]

Listen to and follow Wired's Uncanny Valley wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dina Temple Raston]

This is. Click here.

[Omid Malooki]

The Genius Act. Will one actually legitimize one of the most popular applications of crypto, which is using it for moving existing currencies like the US Dollar?

[Dina Temple Raston]

That's what the current legislation is called, the Genius Act. It's focused on stablecoins. And for crypto enthusiasts, stablecoins have always been the on ramp, the friendly face of a volatile industry, a digital dollar that doesn't swing like a pendulum. Now, with the Genius act gaining traction in the Senate, they see something else, a path to legitimacy.

[Omid Malooki]

I think it will also really professionalize the industry because one of the downsides of crypto being mostly unregulated is that major institutions have not been willing to participate with it. Because major institutions usually need a lot of legal and regulatory clarity. They tend to be risk averse. So I think they're going to be a lot more big banks, brokerage houses, fintechs, consumer companies, tech companies, potentially retailers that are going to start doing things with stablecoin.

[Dina Temple Raston]

But right as the bill was gaining momentum, it hit a wall.

[Lauren Good]

Finally, the Genius Act. You know, the Senate stablecoin bill could now be in jeopardy after some Democrats say they're changing their minds about the legislation.

[Dina Temple Raston]

Democrats have cried foul. Not because they're anti crypto necessarily, but because of the conflicts of interest. Trump is promoting stablecoins while a company linked to his sons is preparing to launch one of its own through the family's private firm, World Liberty Financial.

[Lauren Good]

Investors both from the US and abroad have poured cash into World Liberty Financial, but at this point, they can't resell their tokens yet.

[Dina Temple Raston]

And the crypto market, it's gone wild.

[Omid Malooki]

The price of bitcoin just recently made an all time high.

[Dina Temple Raston]

It's now worth more than $100,000. And crypto investors have put these kinds of soaring prices to use political use. In 2024, the crypto industry donated some $130 million to pro crypto candidates, and a large chunk of it went to Trump and Vance. So like it or not, that money helped put this administration in the White House. And that means we're not debating whether crypto will shape our future anymore.

[Omid Malooki]

We're debating how the industry is as optimistic as ever as to what the Trump administration is going to do on the policy and regulatory front, having nothing to do with how good the food at the Meme Coin Dinner was. If my thesis that this technology will be transformative for society in a positive way comes true, then eventually we'll sort of forget about the shady stuff that went on in the early years and the focus will be on the benefits that lots of people get from it.

[Dina Temple Raston]

From Recorded Future News, this has been Click Here's Mic Drop. It was written and produced by Megan Dietre, Sean Powers, Erica Guida, Zach Hirsch, Lucas Riley and me, Dina Temple Raston. It was edited by Karen Duffin. We'll be back on Tuesday with an all new episode of Click Here. Have a great weekend.

[Zoe Schiffer]

Looking for more of the cybersecurity and intelligence coverage you get on Click Here? Then check out our sister publication the Record. From Recorded Future News. You'll get breaking cyber news from reporters in New York, Washington, London and Kyiv, among others. And you'll see for yourself why it attracts hundreds of thousands of page views every month. Just go to therecord Media.