Podcast Summary: "Mic Drop: Kelly Shaw’s Job Got Hacked – by DOGE"
Podcast Title: Click Here
Host: Dina Temple-Raston
Episode Title: Mic Drop: Kelly Shaw’s Job Got Hacked – by DOGE
Release Date: March 21, 2025
Produced By: Recorded Future News
Introduction
In this compelling episode of Click Here, hosted by Dina Temple-Raston, listeners are introduced to the unsettling story of Kelly Shaw, a seasoned cybersecurity expert whose unexpected termination from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) raises significant concerns about the current state of U.S. cybersecurity infrastructure. The episode delves into the broader implications of recent government cutbacks on national security and the resilience of critical digital defenses.
Background on CISA and Kelly Shaw
CISA's Role:
The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), established in 2018 under the Department of Homeland Security, was initially tasked with defending government networks. Its mandate later expanded to include support for private companies, state governments, cities, and even international partners. CISA plays a pivotal role in safeguarding America's critical infrastructure from cyber threats.
Kelly Shaw’s Expertise:
Kelly Shaw, a dedicated cybersecurity professional with over 15 years of federal government service, was an integral part of CISA. She managed the Cyber Sentry program, which was crucial in monitoring and countering advanced persistent threats (APTs) from groups like Volt Typhoon and Salt Typhoon, linked to China's Ministry of State Security. Shaw's educational background includes:
- Bachelor’s in Electrical Engineering from Virginia Tech
- Master’s in Electrical Engineering from Virginia Tech
- Master’s in Cybersecurity from James Madison University
Notable Quote:
“I think I have a deep background in cybersecurity and related activities.” – Kelly Shaw (05:28)
The Unexpected Termination
The Valentine's Day Incident:
On February 14th, Kelly Shaw received a termination email while unwinding from a romantic evening. The abruptness of the layoff was shocking, especially given her strong performance and dedication to national security.
Kelly’s Account:
“The very first thing I saw was a subject line about your termination. I was let go on that Friday night at 7:28pm and now I am scrambling to find a job.” – Kelly Shaw (00:49)
Impact of Layoffs:
CISA, with a workforce of approximately 3,200, has seen about 10% of its personnel leave due to layoffs and the Office of Personnel Management's deferred resignation program. This reduction is significant, particularly in a field as critical as cybersecurity.
Consequences of the Cuts on National Security
Expert Testimony:
Rob Joyce, former director of cybersecurity at the NSA, testified before Congress expressing grave concerns over the mass firings at CISA. He emphasized that these cuts could severely undermine the United States' ability to combat cyber threats, especially from adversarial entities like China.
Notable Quote:
“Eliminating probationary employees will destroy a pipeline of top talent essential for hunting and eradicating PRC threats.” – Rob Joyce (13:08)
Kelly’s Concerns:
Kelly Shaw articulated her fears about the country's vulnerability due to reduced manpower and expertise within CISA.
“We needed more people. The mere fact that we're rolling that back puts us back a year or two. If we cut half of those people... it would be devastating to our capability.” – Kelly Shaw (08:39)
Personal Impact on Kelly Shaw
Job Search Struggles:
Since her termination, Kelly has faced significant challenges in securing new employment. Despite her impressive qualifications, she has encountered numerous rejections.
“I've already gotten rejections, sometimes within a day or two, but I'll keep trying.” – Kelly Shaw (10:16)
Future Aspirations:
Kelly is seeking leadership roles where she can integrate artificial intelligence with threat intelligence to adopt a more predictive approach to cybersecurity, moving beyond the current reactive stance.
“What really interests me the most is that intersection of artificial intelligence with threat intelligence and overall holistic view of the risk posture of an entire system of systems.” – Kelly Shaw (10:37)
Potential Return to Federal Service:
While Kelly remains open to returning to federal government roles, she expresses concerns about the instability and uncertainty within the current administration.
“If conditions were a little bit more stable, yes. I would like to retire from the government.” – Kelly Shaw (11:40)
Systemic Issues and Broader Implications
Probationary Position Vulnerability:
Kelly Shaw’s position was part of DHS’s Cybersecurity Talent Management System (CTMS), which offers competitive salaries akin to the private sector but requires a three-year probationary period, making these roles particularly susceptible to layoffs.
“The catch was that the jobs had a long probationary period, three years, which made anyone in a CTMS job particularly vulnerable to layoffs.” – Kelly Shaw (05:50)
Impact on CISA’s Operations:
The reduction in workforce not only affects current operations but also impedes the agency’s ability to evolve and respond to emerging cyber threats effectively.
“But it's, we needed more people. The mere fact that we're rolling that back puts us back a year or two.” – Kelly Shaw (08:39)
Conclusion
The episode of Click Here paints a vivid picture of the precarious state of U.S. cybersecurity infrastructure amid government cutbacks. Kelly Shaw’s personal narrative serves as a microcosm of the broader challenges facing CISA and national security. The mass layoffs not only destabilize critical programs but also erode the talent pipeline necessary to defend against sophisticated cyber threats. As Rob Joyce highlighted, these actions could have long-lasting detrimental effects on the nation's cybersecurity posture.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
- “I think I have a deep background in cybersecurity and related activities.” – Kelly Shaw (05:28)
- “The very first thing I saw was a subject line about your termination. I was let go on that Friday night at 7:28pm and now I am scrambling to find a job.” – Kelly Shaw (00:49)
- “Eliminating probationary employees will destroy a pipeline of top talent essential for hunting and eradicating PRC threats.” – Rob Joyce (13:08)
- “We needed more people. The mere fact that we're rolling that back puts us back a year or two.” – Kelly Shaw (08:39)
- “I've already gotten rejections, sometimes within a day or two, but I'll keep trying.” – Kelly Shaw (10:16)
- “What really interests me the most is that intersection of artificial intelligence with threat intelligence and overall holistic view of the risk posture of an entire system of systems.” – Kelly Shaw (10:37)
- “If conditions were a little bit more stable, yes. I would like to retire from the government.” – Kelly Shaw (11:40)
Final Thoughts
Click Here masterfully intertwines Kelly Shaw's personal struggle with the larger narrative of national cybersecurity vulnerabilities. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the critical need to safeguard and invest in cybersecurity talent to protect the digital frontier of the nation.