Click Here – "Rage Against the Machine" (April 24, 2026)

Podcast by Recorded Future News | Hosted by Dina Temple-Raston | Reported by Karen Duffin

Episode Overview

This episode examines the profound impact of generative AI on artists and the creative world. It tells the story of artists whose work has been harvested—without consent or compensation—to train powerful AI systems, sparking legal battles and inventive technical countermeasures. Host Karen Duffin explores what it means to create when algorithms can replicate your style—and reports on how creators are fighting back, not only in the courts but also by poisoning the very data AI feeds on.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The New Face of Plagiarism in the Age of AI (00:02–01:41)

• Opening Reflections: The episode frames AI’s use of internet data—including creative works—as a new form of digital plagiarism.
  • “There used to be a word for this. When someone took your work and passed it off as their own... now some of the biggest companies in the world are doing something that looks a lot like it, and they're calling it innovation." (A, 00:02)
• Generative AI is described as being "trained on us," with the creative output of millions serving as its raw material.

Case Study: Artist Kelly McKernan’s Fight (03:43–07:14)

• Personal Story: Kelly McKernan, a Nashville painter, discovers over 50 of their works were scraped as training data for AI image generators—without consent.
  • “The top result isn't even my art. It's art made from my art.” (B, 05:37)
  • “If a program could do that, you know, what's the point?” (B, 06:50)
• Economic & Existential Impact: Kelly’s commissions plummet; they feel their style and artistic purpose have been undermined by machines mimicking them.

Legal Battles Over AI and Copyright (07:14–11:39)

• Class Actions & Copyright Claims: Kelly becomes a lead plaintiff in a landmark class-action suit against AI companies, paralleled by similar cases from authors like Ta-Nehisi Coates and Sarah Silverman against OpenAI.
• The Core Legal Question: Are AI-generated works “fair use,” or do they infringe on the original rights of artists?
  • “Copyright protects the exact thing you made, but not the style behind it. Which leaves the courts to answer two big questions...” (E, 09:46)
    • Did AI copy the artist’s "expression"?
    • Are the two works “substantially similar”?
• Current Status: Legal outcomes are mixed. Some cases proceed (Kelly’s), others partially dismissed; a $1.5 billion settlement against Anthropic marks the largest copyright payout in history.

Artists’ Counter-Attacks: Technical Resistance (13:26–18:55)

• Ben Jordan’s Punk Rock Approach: Musician Ben Jordan (“The Flashbulb”) fights back by “poisoning” the data used to train AI.
  • Invents adversarial noise—ultrasonic tones humans can’t hear but that disrupt recordings and, later, AI training data.
• ‘Poisonify’ and Data Poisoning:
  • Tools like Poisonify and Harmony Cloak embed “poison pills” in music, rendering AI's learning process inaccurate or useless.
  • “It thinks that the drums might be a piano and it thinks that the guitar might be a harmonica and it thinks the vocals might be a trumpet.” (C, 16:38)
• The Goal: Not to destroy AI, but to force companies to pay creators fairly.
  • “The idea is not to destroy AI. The idea is just to get musicians fairly compensated, more so than anything.” (C, 18:34)
• Emotional Resilience: Despite technological shifts and economic struggles, Ben holds onto the joy of sharing and making music.
  • “The thing that AI can't do is take away the enjoyment of making music. That's why I'm not threatened by it one bit.” (C, 18:58)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kelly McKernan on the Loss of Creative Identity:
  "I really questioned the point of not just my work, but of creating art at all. If a program could do that, you know, what's the point?" (B, 06:50)
• Matt Blaschick, on Copyright Complexity:
  "Copyright access to expressions, not ideas. So some people would claim, does copyright 101?" (F, 09:39)
• Ben Jordan, on Technical Resistance:
  "You can fight back with the same technology that they're exploiting you with." (C, 01:41 & 18:05)
  "If Suno has to cough up so much money to protect against technology like this, that they'll just start licensing music and paying musicians, then success." (C, 18:34)
• Podcast Tone and Ethos:
  The episode remains empathetic to artists, skeptical of unchecked technological “innovation,” and optimistic about creative resilience and countermeasures.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:02–01:41 – Introduction: AI, plagiarism, and creative raw material
• 03:43–07:14 – Kelly McKernan’s story: discovery, impact, and existential questioning
• 07:14–11:39 – Legal fights: copyright law, fair use, and ongoing lawsuits
• 13:26–18:55 – Ben Jordan’s technical fight: adversarial noise, data poisoning, Poisonify, and Harmony Cloak
• 18:55–19:23 – Closing reflections: the enduring joy of creating

Summary

In "Rage Against the Machine," Click Here pulls listeners into the heart of the debate over art, authorship, and artificial intelligence. Through vivid personal stories and expert insight, the episode interrogates the murky realities artists face as their labor seeds generative technologies that increasingly threaten their livelihoods and identities. As legal outcomes lag, creators experiment with radical ways to push back, raising essential questions for the future of creativity in an algorithm-driven world.