Podcast Title: Click Here
Host: Dina Temple-Raston
Episode: The Blockchain That Criminals Love
Release Date: June 17, 2025

Introduction: From Hawala to Crypto

In this episode, Dina Temple-Raston explores the evolution of money transfer systems from the traditional hawala network to modern cryptocurrencies. She sets the stage by highlighting how hawala, a centuries-old informal method of transferring money, has been increasingly supplanted by digital alternatives like crypto, which offer both speed and anonymity.

"Before crypto, there was hawala... a promise sealed with a handshake." [00:02]

Crypto as the New Hawala

Dina introduces Matt Price, Director of Investigations at Elliptic, who draws parallels between hawala and modern cryptocurrencies. Matt emphasizes that while hawala operated on trust and word-of-mouth, crypto transactions leave a permanent and traceable digital footprint.

"Crypto is a distributed network... it’s like hawala shouts." [02:34]

Matt Price elaborates on the operational side of blockchain investigations, noting the shift from traditional methods to tracking digital transactions across anonymous wallets.

"In the hawala system, it's all essentially word of mouth. Right now, crypto is a distributed network." [02:24]

Tron and Tether: The Backbone of a Shadow Economy

The discussion transitions to the Tron blockchain and its associated stablecoin, Tether (USDT), which have become favored by criminals for their speed, low cost, and stability. Matt Price identifies Tron as a common thread in illicit transactions, highlighting its role in facilitating large-scale money movements.

"We start to see they all have a common thread where funds are, at some point, moved on. The Tron blockchain." [02:52]

Jessica Davis, founder of Insight Threat Intelligence, corroborates this by explaining that Tron and Tether enable rapid and stable transfers, making them ideal for terrorist financing and money laundering.

"Tron and Tether are two of the main ways that terrorists are moving funds. It is basically like hawala on steroids." [07:15]
"Tethers are pegged to, in this case, the US dollar... Bitcoin can be a little bit of a guessing game." [08:03]

The Man Behind Tron: Justin Sun’s Controversial Influence

A significant portion of the episode delves into Justin Sun, the charismatic founder of Tron, whose antics and business maneuvers have made him a polarizing figure in the crypto world. From auctioning a banana for $6 million to attempting high-profile investments, Justin’s actions often blur the lines between genius and deceit.

"Justin Sun is known for a certain amount of stunts and self-promotion." [13:05]
"He could not come to the United States to claim that prize because of his kind of uncertain legal situation." [13:49]

Jacob Silverman, a journalist covering crypto, criticizes Sun’s evasive tactics and his ability to circumvent legal scrutiny by obtaining citizenship in multiple countries and assuming political roles in micro nations.

"It's not clear to me that Tron as a company or Justin Sun's operations... have stuck around in any one place long enough to catch the attention of law enforcement." [14:29]

Regulatory Response and Shifting Focus

The episode examines the U.S. government's mixed response to crypto-related crimes. While some regulatory bodies have scaled back their efforts, companies like Tron and Tether have attempted to position themselves as part of the solution by establishing dedicated crypto crime units.

Ari Redboard from TRM Labs discusses the creation of the T3 unit, a collaboration between Tron, Tether, and TRM Labs to combat illicit activities on the Tron blockchain.

"We have investigators dedicated to only tracing Tether on Tron full time." [16:23]
"We've seized back over 200 million in illicit tether." [17:03]

However, critics like Jacob Silverman remain skeptical, pointing out potential conflicts of interest and the lack of substantial changes in Tron’s operational transparency.

"I'm not a believer that these companies have changed. There's still a lot of questions they haven't answered." [17:23]

The Current Landscape and Future Implications

Matt Price from Elliptic provides an optimistic view, suggesting that despite regulatory setbacks, criminal investigators remain vigilant and continue to tackle traditional and digital crimes alike.

"The mission hasn't disappeared... they're still chasing child exploitation, fentanyl smuggling, terror groups." [18:25]

Conversely, Jessica Davis warns that reduced scrutiny from major economies like the U.S. could lead to a global relaxation in crypto regulations, enabling criminals worldwide to exploit these channels with impunity.

"The United States really sets the tone for the rest of the world. If the US is pushing forward with enhanced regulation... No one else is going to do that." [20:04]

Conclusion: The Rotting Core of Crypto's Power

Dina Temple-Raston wraps up by juxtaposing the absurdity of Justin Sun’s antics with the serious underlying issues of power and influence within the crypto ecosystem. She underscores the rapid pace at which crypto evolves, often outpacing regulatory frameworks, and the potential dangers this poses as influential actors gain unprecedented control.

"Behind the spectacle is something quieter and far more dangerous. Power that moves faster than regulation." [21:11]

The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring challenges of regulating a decentralized financial system and the pivotal role that influential figures like Justin Sun play in shaping the future of crypto.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Crypto is a distributed network... it’s like hawala shouts." – Matt Price [02:34]
• "Hamas would... send funds here. They thought it was clever, that they were untouchable." – Ari Redboard [06:09]
• "Tether's pegged to the US dollar... exactly the point, because if you're trying to buy, say, hundreds of AK47s, volatility is a liability." – Jessica Davis [09:00]
• "There is a great paradox when it comes to crypto... it's terrible for money laundering because every transaction is logged." – Ari Redboard [04:53]
• "He’s deeply representative and symbolic and important of what's happening here." – Jacob Silverman [20:52]

Key Takeaways

• Evolution of Money Transfer: Transition from traditional hawala networks to digital cryptocurrencies like Tron and Tether, offering both speed and anonymity.

• Criminal Utilization: Tron and Tether have become preferred tools for terrorists and criminals due to their efficiency and stability.

• Regulatory Challenges: Mixed responses from regulatory bodies, with efforts to combat illicit activities sometimes undermined by relaxed scrutiny and conflicts of interest.

• Influential Figures: Justin Sun embodies the complex interplay between innovation, regulation, and criminal exploitation within the crypto space.

• Future Implications: The need for robust global regulations to keep pace with the evolving crypto landscape and prevent its misuse by malicious actors.

This episode of Click Here provides a comprehensive examination of how modern blockchain technologies are being harnessed by criminal entities, the challenges faced by investigators, and the intricate web of influence and regulation that shapes the current state of digital currencies.