Dina Temple (3:13)

I'm Dina Tempelwurst, and this is Clickier's Mic Drop. The Romeros came from Mexico in the 1970s. Francisco was born on the US side.

Francisco Chavo Romero (3:28)

I consider myself a Chicano Mexicano with US citizenship.

Dina Temple (3:32)

That status provides both a shield and, he says, a responsibility having that citizenship.

Francisco Chavo Romero (3:41)

It is my duty to take it to the next level where people can't. We get people that come up to us and they say, hey, thank you so much for what you're doing for us. Right? We can. I wish I could go out there, but I don't have papers. I'm so sorry. But I really appreciate you. Thank you for stepping in and taking those risks.

Dina Temple (3:59)

The risk is real.

Katie Drummond (4:04)

Tonight, an immigration crackdown in New York City as federal agents descended on Canal street following a massive ICE raid at a Hyundai plant in Georgia.

Francisco Chavo Romero (4:12)

Officials say roughly, what I want you to explain tonight is what are the orders of the men and women who are on these raids? What are they supposed to do?

Recorded Future News Announcer (4:25)

Well, they're enforcing immigration laws as enacted by Congress.

Dina Temple (4:28)

You're upholding the oath they took to enforce those laws. They're not making this up. ICE has been sweeping up citizens and people with legal status in these widespread raids. President Trump has authorized military tactics, even suggested that so called liberal cities like Los Angeles and Chicago should serve as training grounds for the military.

Francisco Chavo Romero (4:52)

It's a brutal spectacle really designed to utilize actually the media, to really showcase the terror. Right, and try to instill that into the bones of the people that are out here.

Dina Temple (5:10)

Francisco's group is called Union del Barrio. They're awake at the crack of dawn scanning tips from a vast network of Southern California residents. A kind of citizen run early warning system. They don't hide from the feds, they actually go looking for them.

Francisco Chavo Romero (5:28)

We go super early in the morning, usually between 5am to 8am and we look for what we call the staging of the operations before they launch. Like when they're surveilling, when they're kind of planning, right the day of when they're about to make their move. We've disseminated so much information in flyers and through our social media platforms, the information on what to look for, that people are calling us, the people themselves. They're getting ready to go to work. They see something, hey, there's, there's multiple vehicles at the park down the street. They look suspicious. Can you guys come? They either message us on the social media or they call us directly to our hotline.

Dina Temple (6:16)

Once they spot federal agents, they follow. They track until the raid begins or until agents leave empty handed. They share their intel with people in the neighborhood, sometimes even interact with the ICE officers.

Francisco Chavo Romero (6:39)

We'll say things to them as well. I mean, I go up to their windows, I knock on their window. And say, hey, how you doing, officer? What agency are you? They're like, whoa, who are you? Right? But in every training that we do, we say, don't give them the reason for them to have you arrested.

Dina Temple (6:56)

As long as they're just observing and not interfering, it's completely lawful and Francisco insists, constitutionally protected.

Francisco Chavo Romero (7:05)

Really all it is is a community getting organized, walking or in bikes, you know, but mainly in our vehicles. We sort of map out the neighborhoods that we're going to commit to. You need one to two vehicles per community area, minimum two to three people per car. We have two way radios that we use and we have literature. And so the literature sort of gives the explanation what we're doing patrolling, but also what to look out for.

Dina Temple (7:37)

They're documenting ICE activity, and in certain situations they'll protest.

Francisco Chavo Romero (7:43)

We reserve the right to protest. So if you're coming down, we're going to be here, right? So we're organized block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood. We have a long way to go, but that's what we're doing. And essentially that's really what's going to save us, I think.

Dina Temple (7:56)

When we come back, Francisco on paranoia, drones, and the fine line between vigilance and fear. Stay with us. Support for Click Here comes from Claude AI. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Why settle for a basic search when you can have a real conversation with Claude? Claude doesn't just fetch results. It helps you think and brainstorm and summarize and draft and even explain. Whether you're untangling a tricky article, preparing interview questions, or polishing up a memoir, Claude can help. Ready to tackle bigger problems? Sign up for Claude today and get 50% off Claude Pro when you use this link. Claude AI clickhere. That's Claude AI clickhere right now for 50% off your first three months of Claude Pro. And that includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Claude AI Clickhere.

Katie Drummond (9:23)

What the hell is going on right now? And why is it happening like this? At Wired, we're obsessed with getting to the bottom of those questions on a daily basis, and maybe you are, too. I'm Katie Drummond, the global editorial director of Wired, and I'm hosting our new podcast series, the Big Interview. Each week, I'll Sit down with some of the most interesting, provocative and influential people who are shaping our right now. Big Interview conversations are fun.

Francisco Chavo Romero (9:50)

I want a shark that, that eats.

Katie Drummond (9:52)

The Internet, that turns it all off, unfiltered and unafraid.

Francisco Chavo Romero (9:56)

So in a lot of ways, I try to be an antidote to the.

Katie Drummond (9:59)

Unimaginable faucet of reactionary content that you see online. To the best of my ability, every week we're going to offer you the ultimate luxury of our times, meaning and context. True or false. You, Brian Johnson, the man sitting across from me, one day, at some point, as of yet undefined, in the future, you will die. False. Tell me more. Listen to the Big Interview right now in the same place you find WIRED's Uncanny Valley podcast. Subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts.

Dina Temple (10:41)

Union Del Barrio's patrols didn't start with Trump. They actually date back to the Obama years and even before.

Francisco Chavo Romero (10:48)

Rest assured that the tensions and deportations have been occurring nearly at the same levels. Under Biden. Under Obama. Right. Under Trump won. Right. Under Bush. Right. Like we're going back under Clinton. But what occurred is that during the Obama era, or even under Bush, the approach was more traditional in the sense that it was more focused on, like, folks that were already captured and in jail. We, we call it the, the velvet glove or the iron fist. Right. So, so, so right now we're dealing with mano dura in Spanish. That's the iron fist approach, where it's just openly, just brutal. The tactics, it's really militarized visually, but also in the way they actually roll out their, their operations, even calling everything an operation. Right. Big developing story today.

Dina Temple (11:45)

It's a new operation by federal agents.

Francisco Chavo Romero (11:48)

Beginning here in the Chicago area.

Dina Temple (11:49)

ICE recently conducted a raid in Chicago called Operation Midway Blitz. Among other things, agents rappelled down from Blackhawk helicopters to raid an apartment complex in the city's South Shore neighborhood. In the dark and early five o' clock hour, neighbors who lived near Chippewa Drive heard helicopters flying above and saw a flurry of armored vehicles blocking their streets. Did it surprise you that it became so militarized so fast, or did you kind of know that was going to happen?

Francisco Chavo Romero (12:22)

Well, we were preparing for the worst, and so we were not surprised. So for three weeks, we did trainings and got hundreds and hundreds of people organized and ready. And so we were not caught off guard. We thought we were prepared as best as we could with the humble means that we have at our disposal.

Dina Temple (12:44)

But defiance comes with risk, because while they're watching ice. ICE may be watching them. So you're tracking ice. How do you make sure that you aren't being tracked by them?

Francisco Chavo Romero (12:57)

Well, the way we operate is under the assumption that we're being monitored at all times, period. Like, that's just the way it is. Everything we do is being scrutinized. And if we walk around with being afraid and paranoid, then the reign of terror has worked. So we are not afraid. We're organized. We're ensuring that we're doing everything within the markers of what is legal right and, and constitutionally protected.

Dina Temple (13:26)

Again, he says drones pass overhead, unmarked cars idle in their neighborhoods.

Francisco Chavo Romero (13:31)

And we also know that there may be a time where they're going to try to bulk us all in into these categories, right? Domestic terrorists, enemy combatants. Like they're going to start using war terminology to pin us to. Hey, they're Mexicans. They're from. They migrated from Sinaloa. They're probably tied to the narco cartels, right? They're going to try to pin those labels on us.

Dina Temple (13:59)

And in fact, Union Del Barrio and other advocacy organizations objecting to the ICE raids have received a letter from Senator Josh Hawley threatening to investigate whether they were bankrolling civil unrest.

Francisco Chavo Romero (14:12)

And there may be one day where they're going to come banging on our doors and going to take us in. I personally and all our members, we are preparing mentally, physically, spiritually to be ready to be behind bars at one point. And if it means that we're going to be captured and taken to jail, then, you know, I mean, I'll write a book while I'm in there. I'll organize inside the prison if that's the case. So in other words, we know that what we're doing is righteous, right? We're on the right side of history.

Dina Temple (14:50)

From Recorded Future News, this has been Click Here's Mic Drop. It was written and produced by Megan Dietre, Sean Powers, Erica Gaeda, Zach Hirsch, Lucas Riley, and me, Dina Temple. Rest. It was edited by Karen Duffin. We'll be back on Tuesday with an all new episode of Click Here. Have a great weekend.

Recorded Future News Announcer (15:20)

Looking for more of the cybersecurity and intelligence coverage you get on Click Here, then check out our sister publication, the Record. From Recorded Future News, you'll get breaking cyber news from reporters in New York, Washington, London and Kyiv, among others. And you'll see for yourself why it attracts hundreds of thousands of page views every month. Just go to the Record Media.