← Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty
Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty
Episode 215: Sewing is an act of self-determination (part 2), with Ruby of Spokes & Stitches
02:07:18
Loading summary
Transcript247 lines
- [00:18]
Amanda
Welcome to Clothes Horse, the podcast that has a sewing machine and it's a very unprofessional but super cute hello Kitty Janome sewing machine that Dustin bought for me secondhand in 2020. So it's not exactly workhorse. But then again, if I was sewing a lot, I'd have to quit making Clothes Horse. So it's perfect for what I need right now. And like I said, super cute. That's important, right? I'm your host, Amanda, and this is episode 215. This is part two in a short series about all things sewing with Ruby of spokes and stitches. And I would ask you that if you haven't listened to part one, you should go do that first because it really ties well into this week's episode. You won't be completely lost without it, but you know, it's nice to get the full picture right this week. Well, I mean, last week too, Ruby shared so much incredible information with us. But this week Ruby is going to share even more super helpful information advice for finding your own second hand sewing machine, including where to look, where, what to look for, how to choose a good one, and even how much you should expect to spend. She's going to talk about sewing patterns, how to choose them, how to use them and what to expect. And she'll explain why she has started her own line of petite plus sewing patterns, Starling Petite Plus. And she's going to walk us through all of the work that goes into creating a sewing pattern. So much, so much sewing stuff. There's lots of other stuff in there that we're going to talk about today. I'll tell you, as I mentioned last week I think we probably recorded five to six hours of conversation. You're only hearing about, I don't know, two and a half to three hours of that so far. We talked a lot about sizing and size charts and grading and all kinds of other interesting stuff and I'm pretty sure I'm going to release that when I come back from Japan in December. So just keep your eye out for that. Before we get started with all of the great information that Ruby's going to share with us this week, I just want to make a couple of announcements. One is that on Friday I shared some potential designs for the next round of clotheshore's iron on transfers and stickers. You can go find them on my Instagram. Please go vote for your 2 favorites in the comments. The ones that are the favorites probably like the top two to three will actually be made into transfers for pre order in November and they will ship when I get back from Japan at the end of the month. So go vote now. What else? If you want to receive the merch that already exists before I get back from Japan, like I don't know, a little bit more than a month from now, go order it now. The deadline to do that is this coming Sunday, 27th October. Otherwise you have to wait until I come back. I thought about asking Dustin to ship orders while I was gone and it just felt really rude since, you know, I'm going to be on the other side of the world doing cool stuff, like to be like, hey, by the way, I know you aren't going on the trip with me, could you also just like do some busy work for me? Thanks. So you'll have to wait if you don't order soon. And one last kind of announcement that I want to make here is really, really important. So some of you probably don't even know that clotheshorse has a website. It does, it's clotheshorsepodcast.com and you can find all kinds of interesting stuff there like information, education, my little small business directory. You can find the transcripts for every episode, all the links that I or talk about and so much more. Right. And also part of my website is a page for my consulting services which is how I really make a living. Yes, Close Source is a full time job, but if I had to rely on Clothes Source to pay my bills, I mean it wouldn't even pay my rent, much less food and insurance and cat food and all the other things I need to live. So my real full time job, not that this isn't a real job, it's a lot of work. But my real paying full time job is that I work as a consultant for a variety of different brands and designers and boutiques, peaks all around the United States and Canada, businesses of all kinds of sizes that are all really like sustainability and ethics focused and that's how I really make a living. And so I have a page on my website that is to direct new clients towards me. You know, it gives a little information about who I am. And at the bottom that is a link to schedule a first consultation with me. And I keep that there because, you know, people who find me for the first time or are, you know, referred by another client of mine can go in there and easily make an appointment. And it's not something that I want to remove from my website because you know, that could affect my ability to bring in new clients. Anyway, something has been happening and it's been happening for more than a year now, but it's really picked up momentum recently is that people who are not interested in my consulting services, not interested in paying me for my labor or time, are scheduling appointments using my calendly link that's on that page just to chit chat or ask me for personal advice or, you know, just talk about something from a recent episode or whatever. And I need to ask you all to stop doing that now. It may not be any of you who are listeners here. It might be people who are more coming in through Instagram. I don't really know. I think of all of you who actually listen to the podcast as my, like, VIP core community because you, like, show up and you hear all the information and you're just like a really important part of all of this. And I know if I tell y'all to stop scheduling appointments with me, you will, so please stop doing that. I mean, why? You know, as a consultant, I work by the hour, which means if I'm not working for an hour, I'm not getting paid. It's not like I think about all the salaried corporate jobs I had, which, you know, sucked in their own way, but there were times where I would just sit and chit chat with someone for an hour and I was somehow getting paid for it. But that is not the case now in my life. So if someone shows up and schedules an hour on my calendar just to hang out and talk, that's another hour later into the evening that I have to work to make a living. So please do not do that. Please just respect my time and my need to survive. In capitalism, if you do have something you want to talk about, you can shoot me an email. We can correspond. That way, if I do have time, maybe we can talk. But the other thing that is happening a lot lately is that people want to hang out, they want to talk. And you know, you might think you're the only person who feels like you want to talk to me, but it turns out there are a lot of you and there's only one me. And I only have like one 24 hour period in every day to work and sleep and eat and hang out with Dustin and work on clothes horse and take care of the house and do the laundry and all the other things. Like, I barely feel like I can stay on top of my life as it is. So I just don't have a lot of time for socialization. That said, I know you all want to talk, connect. You have thoughts, feelings, ideas, and of course you feel connected to me because we care about a lot of the same things and in some cases we even have had similar experiences, similar life stories that, you know, bring us together. And I don't know a solution for that yet. Maybe in the new year we can start having like monthly hangout sessions where people can just come to the Zoom. They can pay five bucks just to ensure that they show up honestly and we can just talk about a topic for that month and get to know one another. I'm totally open to that. If you are impatient and want to connect with people right now, I would urge you to join the clothes horse Slack. There is a link in the show notes of every episode. Basically it takes you to a form. You just fill in your email address and your name and then I send you an invite from Slack. It's the easiest way to do it. So if you want to meet more closed horse people now and get those conversations started right away way, that's a great way to do it. And once again, that link is in the show notes. Of course, it's also in every episode on the closehorsepodcast.com website. And there are so many great people in that community for you to connect with. Okay. Whew. Let's talk about something a lot more interesting than calendly links. That is home sewing, right? Meaning like not mass sewing, but sewing done in people's homes. Although to be fair, there's never a great way to describe sewing that we are, as individuals, are doing at home. And I would love for someone to come up with a term that doesn't, I don't know, kind of make garment workers invisible, right? Because when we say homemade, maybe that could work. But you know, there are a lot of sewists who work out of their homes sewing professionally, doing piecework, all kinds of stuff all around the world, right? So homemade isn't exactly right. And when we say like handmade, that's like super, super minimizing to garment workers because all of our clothing is handmade by human hands, right? Like basically the same way we're sewing it at home, right? Humans moving stuff through a sewing machine, cutting all that stuff. So I can't think of a great term. I would love to hear from all of you for the purpose of this conversation and what I'm going to talk to you about right now, I'm going to refer to it as home sewing. But know that I don't think that's the most perfect. The other thing I'm going to talk about a lot as I walk you through this sort of like recent history of home sewing is I'm going to be referring to women primarily as the people sewing. And I know that like in 2024, I mean, I say this as a, as a non binary person myself, that saying women, well once again it sort of invisibilizes Tibeva. It's not a word. All these other people of different genders who have sewn over the years. But we cannot forget that if we go back historically, unfortunately people were forced into two gender roles, right. And women were predominantly the ones doing the sewing, at least at home. Right. So I'm going to talk about women a lot. They were the target of a lot of marketing around sewing and just a lot of the sort of societal expectations around sewing and clothes. Clothing. But know that I feel, I feel so old timey every time I say men versus women or anything like that. But that is unfortunately how history was, especially in terms of sewing. Home sewing, once there was mass produced clothing available out there, has always been motivated by three things. Saving money, creating unique stylish items that fit perfectly, and conserving materials and resources. And to be honest, at different times in history, one of those three things was more important than other times. But even now, home sewing is still driven by these attributes, with the added bonus of course, of the joy of making and learning and trying new things. But that was probably always part of it for at least some people. There's something just so I don't know, I think one of life's simplest pleasures is just like learning something new and getting better at it with time. Right? So that's always been a part of sewing as well. As we talked about in the last episode with Ruby, home sewing was the norm for centuries. But in the 19th century, aka the 1800s, always a good thing to remind us all of. In the 19th century, innovations made home sewing even more accessible and efficient for people at all income levels. And that was three major innovations. The sewing machine, paper patterns and factory produced fabrics. Back then, the latest looks were coming from Paris, including the silhouettes, the trims, the fabric. So there were trends coming out of Paris, albeit the trends moved a little bit more slowly. What a different time, a simpler time. Not simpler, just different. Paper patterns could be used to create these latest looks that came from Paris. And they would often be cut and sewn by professional dressmakers. But dressmakers would also just cut the pieces out and sell them to less well off customers who would then sew them together themselves at home. Various incarnations of sewing Machines were developed in the early 1800s, but things really started cooking in 1885 when Singer patented the Singer vibrating shuttle sewing machine. It's kind of a titillating name, am I right? I'm just really immature. And by the way, the path to this sewing machine's arrival in the world was filled with stolen ideas and lawsuits and betrayals. And honestly, someone needs to make a movie about this. It was like succession. But sewing machines, that could be a whole episode right there. So much early sewing machine drama. Previous versions of the sewing machine had been in use for decades, but primarily only by clothing manufacturers. By the 1860s, 60s, sewing machines became more common in middle class homes, and women's magazines offered dress patterns and how to's. And of course, the lucky, although some might say cursed, owner of said machine, which would still was still pretty novel, could make and mend clothing for family and friends. And no doubt they were being asked all the time, as they still are. But the Singer vibrator shuttle, that's a tongue twister right there, landed at the perfect time when the industrial revolution meant that sewing machines could be churned out faster and cheaper, making them more accessible to everyone. Millions of these machines were sold to homes, making home sewing faster and maybe a little bit easier. Because previously, either maybe you were one of the lucky owners of a previous sewing machine, still not super common, or you were hand sewing everything. So now to imagine sewing machines becoming a more normal appliance in many homes, you can see that this is so much faster. And maybe, just maybe, you're sewing a few less of your neighbor's clothes because they have their own sewing machine now too. By the way, I'm going to take this moment because we're talking about Singer, who, like I said, Singer shady company stealing ideas up to no good, ultimately becoming like the predominant name in sewing machines here in the United States for a very long time. It's not the first time their name's gonna come up in this episode. There's like a weird misinformation rumor going around on the Internet that Singer, the sewing machine company, invented planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence, as we've talked about more here on the podcast. If you want to learn more about that, I would go listen to episode 187. It's the first in the series of why new clothes are garbage. Right now we talk all about planned obsolescence and how it's baked into everything we buy, but basically it's designing products with the intention that someone will be forced to buy something New sometime soon, Right? And it can come in many varieties. Once again, we go into this in greater detail in 187, but it can be as simple as we put in parts that don't fully last, so it breaks and you have to replace it. Right. Or we put in batteries that eventually die and you need to get a new phone, for example. Or we just make things completely non repairable. Or we are constantly creating new colorways, new trends, new versions that make your current item of that ilk feel out of date, out of trend, out of style, and maybe even a little embarrassing. So you feel pressured to buy something new. And actually planned obsolescence was really invented by the bicycle industry way back in the day to get people to buy new bicycles. Because it was kind of like, I already have a bike, why would I buy another one? Oh, don't worry. We're going to start adding little tiny feature changes. We're going to. We're going to release them in new colors. You know, now you need a new bike, right? And this idea was really adopted by the car industry and they just ran with it, right? Because now, you know, there are new models of cars every year and have been for quite some time. It's not something I really think about on a regular basis because our cars are very old. And it seems so silly to me to go buy a brand new car. But that's the thing about cars is that they can be fixed for a really long time. And car companies reached a point pretty early on where they were like, wow, no one's really buying new cars because they're already happy with the one they have. We better create a reason for them to need a new car. And so every year, the new model will have slightly new features, right? And more importantly, it will be in new colors that are exclusive to that year, and that will get people to come and buy a new car. And yes, it works. And we see it playing out now with, for example, with iPhones. Right? They're constantly releasing a new iPhone, but how much of a difference is it from the previous iPhone? I mean, it's been a long time since the newest iPhone was this massive life upgrade, right? So planned obsolescence is all around us. It was not invented by the Singer sewing machine company. That said, I have no doubt that the Singer sewing machine company did gradually invent reasons for people to buy new sewing machines, like new features and new colors and eventually lower quality products that were more difficult to repair. You know, last week was my eighth wedding anniversary with Dustin. And thank you no, we didn't do anything. It was like, honestly, like a little low key, depressing. But I mean, you know, Dustin just came back from tour. There's just a lot going on. And on top of that, our dishwasher broke. Now we rent, but part of our lease is that we are responsible for repairing and maintaining the appliances. Don't worry, there aren't many. And the washer and dryer we brought brought ourselves from Facebook Marketplace. But the dishwasher is really important. I was like, I don't have time to wash dishes with all the stuff I have going on. Even when I wear gloves, I get this really bad eczema on my hand from washing dishes. It's very painful blistery. It lasts a long time. It's miserable. I was like, we must get the dishwasher repaired. So the dishwasher that was in our home is no doubt was bought secondhand. And it seems like it's maybe from the early aughts, very late 90s. A Maytag. Not trying to disparage the name Maytag here, but it's just something to call out. And basically what happened is it's got all these sensors, like a pad that you press in to start the cycle. Something in that control panel broke, which is a really common problem with dishwashers of that era. The problem is that Maytag doesn't make that control panel anymore. So you can't just buy one from them and replace it. And the only way you could find one is secondhand. We found one on ebay that was going to be $200 plus shipping. There was no guarantee that the panel itself was in great working cond and that even after we spent all that money to replace it, that then our dishwasher would be fine. So we ended up buying a different dishwasher for 50 bucks on Facebook Marketplace. It's a different brand. It's a Kenmar. And what's interesting about it, I hope you're not falling asleep from this story. I never thought we'd be talking about dishwashers here, but there it is. What's interesting about it is this dishwasher is maybe five to 10 years older than the one we just replaced. And it feels like just a massive upgrade. Like even all of the shelving inside the baskets and stuff were actually metal instead of plastic and they're really solid. And just even the buttons and just the whole apparatus of this dishwasher is so much higher quality. So it's just interesting. I mean, you know, this too stuff has just been getting kind of like crappier and crappier with time. It's interesting to see how even dishwashers, not the most exciting thing out there within a 10 year period, have so much planned obsolescence built into them. And I'm sure it's even worse now, and I only say that anecdotally, but as we were looking for dishwashers, we were finding a lot that had been made and bought in the last five years that didn't work, that people were trying to sell on Facebook, Marketplace. So planned obsolescence, it's all around us. It's in sewing machines, it's in phones, it's in dishwashers. But it wasn't invented by sewing machine companies. Long detour there. But I just, I keep seeing it coming up on Instagram and I wanted to debunk that. Now back to home sewing. So home sewing was definitely sold as a thrifty idea for sure. But more importantly, at that time, it was seen as a way to curate your own special wardrobe and to stay on top of the latest style trends, which, like I said, lasted way longer than they do now. If you right now were like, I'm gonna sew something for every single micro trend that comes my way on TikTok, by the time you finish that item, it's probably out of trend. This was not the case back then. You knew you're gonna put all this work and time into something and you were gonna get to wear it for years. In fact, sewing was promoted as this thing that only the most clever women would do by tricking all of the world with their stylish wardro, made themselves at major cost savings. It's not unlike how like, places like TJ Maxx and Nordstrom Rack and whatever are like, sold now as this. Like, this is where smart people shop for designer goods at a low, low price. Like, forget the TJ Maxx of it all, just make it yourself, right? Which as I say it out loud right now, I'm like, it's still pretty true, right? That said, in the early 1900s, most women did know how to sew. They learned it from their, their grandmothers, their aunts. And this was something that women of all economic classes knew how to do, even if they weren't sewing their own clothes. Like, if they were wealthier, they were probably paying someone to sew their own clothes. And if they were less wealthy, they might actually be taking in sewing, sewing stuff and doing repairs and mending for other people for money. But no matter what, sewing was to a certain extent, a common link for women around the world at this time, that this was something that it was just a normal skill that you learned as you approached adulthood. Okay, so sewing, you know, it's like pretty democratic at this point. I think humans have always looked for ways to feel superior to other humans while also doing whatever it takes to fit in and feel safe so that other people can't feel superior to you. This should sound very familiar to you. It is something I have been experiencing most days of my life since about, I don't know, fifth grade. Maybe it was earlier for you, maybe later. Clothing has always been a part of that. Home sewing promised what fast fashion would do a century later, ostensibly democratize style. Of course, we know that even as fast fashion allegedly democratized style kind of removed the class from it. Spoiler did not happen. It just made luxury brands and even later sustainable brands more necessary to fit in and not seem poor, right? There has always been a stigma attached to fast fashion, no matter what anybody will tell you in its defense. And I have no doubt that in the early 1900s, people were still being judged by how many dresses they had, or what kind of fabric they used, or whether they sewed them themselves or paid someone else to do it. Because that is just how humans are. But as fashion trends shifted, sometimes home sewing just didn't make sense anymore. For example, in the 1920s, the style trends for women involved much simpler garments. Think about what flappers were wearing. Not all the fringe, but otherwise the more tunicy shift stuff, right? This meant that manufacturing these clothes was less expensive. And of course, it was always easier to buy mass produced clothing. So more women began to opt for mass produced clothing rather than sewing it themselves or paying someone in their community to sew it. Of course, that wasn't great for sewing machine and clothing pattern companies who had been making a killing. So they began to market a different angle. Maybe sewing your own clothing wasn't more economical, but it did guarantee higher quality and better fitting clothing. And if you were smart, which of course you want to be smart, right? Especially if you're a woman, you're being told your whole life that you are a second class citizen, a third class citizen, that you're not very smart, that you don't bring value to the world, that your opinions don't matter. So if there's a way that people can consider you smart by sewing your own clothes, well, you're going to do that, right? This wasn't the last time the sewing industry marketed the superior quality of home sewn garments. And certainly for the next 50 years or so, sewing was marketed as something that smart, clever women did to sort of save money and impress people and look good. So really pandering to women, finding their identity, finding value in a world that frequently saw them as not very valuable. By the 1930s, here in the United States, home economics education was mandatory in most middle schools for girls, about 90% of them. Sewing, cooking and household management were the core of the curriculum. And so more generations of girls learned sewing, ensuring that home sewing remained a social norm. Now World War II changed the direction of home sewing. Women were encouraged to remake mend and rework their existing clothing and the clothing of their families rather than buy new fabric patterns, etc. If they did need to use new fabric, they were encouraged to waste as little fabric as possible when cutting it out. And some women even donated their sewing machines to be melted down into other items for the war effort. Like, it's not that it was anti home sewing at this point. It was just like, you shouldn't be sewing things you don't really need, so maybe you don't need that sewing machine. Although I'm sure once the war was over, so many people were like, man, I really miss my sewing machine. I've said it here before and I'll say it again. I spend a lot of time thinking about consumerism and how it is connected to social trends. And when I think of sort of key moments that accelerated our consumption of stuff, I think of a few. One was the invention of celluloid plastic in the late 1800s, which we talked about a few episodes ago. Then there's the 1980s and the Reagan era. Here in the United States, there's the dawn of fast fashion in 2008 and the great Recession. And of course there's post World War II. In the post World War II era, as we know, consumerism became a way of life here in the United States and many countries in the global North. And I'm sure all those people who had their sewing machines melted down for war effort bought a brand new shiny one, right? Because this was like people were shopping. We also saw this baby boom, AKA the boomers. The largest generational group in US history, The sewing industry, particularly the sewing machine companies like Singer, saw this new generation as a great new customer base. And so they began to market towards teenage girls. In 1945, they began a 20 year campaign designed to hook teenage girls on sewing. It was called the Singer Teenage Sewing Course. Now more than ever, women were expected to fit into society. And fitting in meant owning a Lot more clothes and replacing them. As fashion trends shifted, which was happening a little faster now than it had in the past, Just we're still not in the fast fashion era. But, you know, styles are changing every year. There is this pressure to have that color, that shape, that fabric, that print. Teenage girls were told that home sewing ensured that they could always afford to be in style, guaranteeing social and romantic success. It was also sold, once again, as this smart thing that you could do to look good, save money, and kind of have like the best clothes, right? So sewing was still a very common skill among that generation. If they weren't learning it at home or in school, they could learn it at the Singer's sewing center. And that's actually how my stepmother Karen.
- [29:54]
Dustin
Who can literally sew anything, she even.
- [29:57]
Amanda
Sews costumes for the community theater. That's how she learned how to sew. And she has always talked about how grateful she was for that experience, which I think back then, taking sewing classes at the Stinger Sewing school wasn't exactly like, cheap, but it was affordable for like a middle class family, obviously. Now, as we talked about with Ruby last week, sewing instruction is a lot more expensive than it used to be, which makes it less accessible to so many people. Through the 1950s and 60s, sewing remained popular because it was a cost saving activity. And it was also a hobby for women, right? So it served multiple purposes. It wasn't just about making sure everyone had something to wear or saving money. It was like, here's something that I enjoy doing now. Home sewing declined in the 1970s for two major reasons. And to be honest, it never really came back in the way that it once was. For one, more and more women were working outside the home, and sewing was just a chore or activity that they didn't have time for. And as Ruby mentioned last week, many feminists felt that they no longer wanted to do the dull chores that had been previously expected of women. They were free to choose different ways to spend their time. Furthermore, shopping was no longer just a chore for running a household. It was now a social activity, a relaxing pastime. Hanging out at the mall and shopping with friends became the norm. And that made home sewn clothes less appealing. And I was thinking about this. We're talking about, like, this is the mall era, right? This is like you're going out with your girlfriends and you're having lunch and you're shopping. And this went on forever. I mean, when I was a teenager, go to the mall and hang out, right? As an adult going on a Trip, going shopping with friends, Taking a Saturday afternoon to go shopping with your friends. This is like normal social activity, right? And I don't have any answers on this. But I was thinking about how now more than ever, a big chunk of our shopping, especially for clothes and things like that, like the fun stuff actually happens online. And so I just don't know if anyone would say, you tell me if I'm wrong, that sitting on my couch, scrolling through Shein on my phone is a relaxing pastime, that it's certainly not social, right? And I do see that more and more people are starting to shop IRL again. I see it with my clients and I do wonder if people are like, I kind of miss that social aspect. Because I will say since I don't know, 2019, when we moved to Philadelphia for my job at Nuuly, I have felt like pretty socially isolated. It's a little bit better here in Lancaster. But I didn't really make friends when we moved back to Philly because I was working all the time and I wasn't making friends with people at work because I was their boss. And then we moved to the country during the pandemic, obviously not making friends. Then we moved to Austin, where I also just could not make friends for the life of me there, I just couldn't find a place where I fit in. And here we are, we're back in Lancaster and I'm finally meeting people and stuff. But over those years, I would get this kind of longing for just a Saturday afternoon, hanging out with my friends, shopping and going out for lunch and checking out a museum. It wasn't about buying stuff to me that I missed. It was just like, oh, we're together and we're laughing and we're coming up with inside jokes and we're just talking, you know. And I do think about how it's unfortunate that shopping has to be like the centerpiece of that socialization, but I also understand why it's valuable. Anyway, that was a digression. What we see in the 70s is people are sort of like, I don't really need to sew my own clothes anymore. I don't have time. It's not that much more expensive or it's the same price to go buy mass produced clothes. And though I can throw them right on, I don't have to wait. During this time period, the sewing industry pivoted away from these promises of style and social success because they couldn't guarantee that anymore. And they focused more on the thriftiness of sewing right. Like Ah, here you are. You're still sewing smart because you're saving so much money by making your own clothes. But that was rapidly a losing proposition by the 1980s, as more and more clothing manufacturing moved overseas where cheaper labor could be exploited. Mass produced clothing was cheaper than home sewn. And of course, that never changed. As we discussed in the last episode, the Reagan administration pulled home economics education out of schools in favor of more job training education like computer skills, typing, etc. And less and less people sewed or even knew how to. And as I've said before, this makes me so sad because we lost important life skills training that most of us never got taught at home. And I am one of those people who had to learn those things on my own. I learned sewing at school. I learned cooking by doing it for my family from an early age. But we weren't being handed down those skills anymore, and we also weren't getting them from school. And I do think we have multiple generations of people now who don't know how to repair clothes, much less sew clothes, and who don't really know how to, like, plan a menu, shop for groceries, and then cook a meal. Right? It's really, it's really sad. And it fuels consumerism, right? And it, it fuels more waste. It's easy to get caught up in some sort of nostalgic, like, oh, things were better back then when people were sewing at home all the time. But we can't get caught up in that because nostalgia tends to paint a rosier picture of the past than the actual reality of that time period. It happens on a mass social scale where we're like, oh, the 90s, they were such an innocent time. Well, except for how we treated women and police brutality and, you know, numerous genocides happening around the world and all this other stuff. But it was so great, right? No, it wasn't perfect, Right? We don't necessarily need to go back to the 1990s. I'll notice that even with my own life, like, I'll be like, oh, those years when Dylan was a toddler and we were broke, but man, we were. There were some of the happiest times of my life. Not really. I had bronchitis for at least six months. One year. I worked at a crappy retail job. I was constantly biking in the cold winter rain, hence the endless bronchitis. Sometimes I was so hungry that I would just lay in bed imagining myself eating the food I couldn't afford. And people were endlessly shitty to me for being a single mom. So no, it wasn't perfect. And things were hard, even though there were also really fun times. And when we look back on the 50s and 60s, when many women were sewing at home, well, plenty of them were not having a great time. Plenty of them hated sewing and wish they could be writing books or traveling the world or doing just about anything else. So I don't think that. Oh, man, if only we could turn back time, all the sewing would happen and we would end fast fashion. That's just not true or a good idea. But I do wish that it were easier now for people who want to sew, to be able to sew, that luxuries like time, skills, space, and equipment were accessible to those who want them. I have a lot of thoughts about this. I'm sure you do, too. And as I said, Ruby and I talked about that at length, and I'm planning to share that part of our conversation in December. If you have thoughts about how we can get sewing into more people's lives, specifically people who want it in their lives, I want you to send it my way. Those ideas my way, via email or an audio message. As always, my email address is amandaosehorse World. You can find that in the show notes, and I want to hear your thoughts. Let's get sewing out there. But how do we do it? I don't know. This could be something we figure out next year. So let's get the conversation started now. Okay, enough from me. We have so much amazing expertise that Ruby's going to share in the next part of the episode. So let's jump right into that. Let's talk about sewing machines, because sometimes that can be. I mean, anytime there's like a special equipment involved, it can be a barrier of entry for people, sometimes financially, but sometimes because they're just like. I don't know where to start.
- [38:37]
Ruby
Yes. Yeah. So I have a lot to say about sewing machines. I have. I'm proud to say I've probably bought at least a dozen. Maybe I'm closer to like two dozen secondhand sewing machines.
- [38:50]
Amanda
Okay, okay.
- [38:51]
Ruby
Or accumulated through various means. But yeah, so there's a bunch of places that you can find sewing machines. And. And I think, you know, since this is Clothes Horse, I want to focus kind of more so on, like, where to get a used sewing machine. Just because I feel like there are so many used sewing machines out there that are totally decent in, like, fine working condition and are totally wonderful and great. And a lot of the newer machines that are being made these days, while, yes, sometimes they have some Nice kind of fancier, like updated features. A lot of the components are made of plastic.
- [39:27]
Amanda
Yep.
- [39:28]
Ruby
And they just don't have the longevity of a lot of these vintage machines.
- [39:32]
Amanda
They break.
- [39:33]
Ruby
Yeah, they break and you can, they're not as repairable. So you know, if you think about like older machines where they're made with like all metal parts, it's like a lot of times you can still find the repair parts or the replace. You can replace parts on the machine just much easily, Much more easily. And there's tons of video tutorials on YouTube on like how to replace, place a sewing machine belt or how to fix the timing or you know, what kind of bobbin case to get or something. So I, I am all for like a second hand first approach to sewing machines. So I want to, I want to kind of focus on that more specifically. But yeah, so places to find sewing machines. Facebook Marketplace is my personal favorite because it's local, Big fan. So I mean if you think about a sewing machine, it's usually something kind of big and kind of of heavy. Can be very expensive to get it shipped to you. So if you can find something that's in your local community that you can just drive to go pick up, that's great. Ebay is also a great place to find vintage sewing machines. A lot of times you can actually filter your search on ebay for local so you can say like, find show me things that are within 100 miles of me or 50 miles of me that are available for local pickup. Yard sales are also a great place to find sewing machines and buy nothing groups. I will say ebay specifically. It's like less people trying to get rid of stuff and more people selling like vintage collectible type items. So ebay of those options, ebay is probably going to be the more expensive end. However, stuff on ebay is like usually a little bit more vetted. So like if somebody is selling something on ebay and they say like, this has been tested, it works, works. You can usually trust that. Whereas if you're going to a yard sale or a buy nothing group, a lot of times people are just like, I don't know if this works. I found it in my grandma's basement. Like it's $10, but you can have it, you know.
- [41:24]
Amanda
Right, Right.
- [41:25]
Ruby
Yeah, but you never know. Like you could end up buying something and taking it home and realizing that it actually needs some like extensive repairs. So ebay is probably a little more trustworthy for like just making sure that something like works and is, you know, there, there will be more specific information about, like, what that model is and what condition it's in.
- [41:43]
Dustin
And you can get your money.
- [41:44]
Amanda
Money back, probably, if it doesn't work. Which is scary. Right?
- [41:47]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [41:48]
Amanda
The other thing I'll just say is, most of the time, if you are buying one secondhand and there isn't a manual, something I've learned is that at some point someone scanned that manual and made it available online. So just give it a Google.
- [41:59]
Ruby
Oh, totally. It's like manualslib.com or something.
- [42:02]
Amanda
Oh, yeah.
- [42:03]
Ruby
Amazing. I'm on there all the time.
- [42:04]
Amanda
Yeah, same.
- [42:07]
Ruby
Yeah. So what should you look for? Ideally, you want to get something that has been recently tuned up or serviced. A lot of times people will say in the item description, especially on Facebook Marketplace or ebay, like, this item was recently serviced, it's in good working condition. Some kind of red flags to look for is if people just say, like, it works, but then there's nothing about, like, when it was last service.
- [42:31]
Amanda
Right. Yeah.
- [42:33]
Ruby
Or, like, works great. It's like, does it?
- [42:36]
Amanda
I. I don't know exactly.
- [42:39]
Ruby
Another thing that I see a lot, which is. Which is really weird. I don't know why this is like a trend, but sometimes, especially on Facebook Marketplace, I think it's very helpful when people post a video of them actually sewing on the machine. So it'll be a video of the machine actually stitching on fabric. Super helpful. Great. If you see a video like that and it's like filmed recently and there's like good lighting and you're like, that is making complete stitches on that fabric. Great. You can probably trust that that machine's in good working order. But sometimes people will just run a machine without fabric or thread in it just to show you that the needle goes up and down. Like, look, it works a lot more than that.
- [43:15]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [43:16]
Ruby
That isn't just because the needle goes up and down. That is not a guarantee that that machine works. It is a guarantee that it's not frozen, which, like, that is something that can happen to old machines when they're, like, left in a garage for a really long time. Or, like, parts actually, like, rust and are no longer moving. You know, like the mechanisms inside are no longer turning. So, like. Yes, good. You know, thank you for verifying that it's not, like, completely rusted over. However, just because the needle is going up and down doesn't mean it doesn't need service.
- [43:43]
Amanda
Right, Right.
- [43:44]
Ruby
So just keep that in mind. Don't be fooled by that. It doesn't necessarily mean that someone who's Posting a video like that, like, is trying to scam you. A lot of times people selling machines just don't know how they work.
- [43:54]
Amanda
They don't know anything about sewing machines.
- [43:56]
Ruby
They don't know how they work. And they're just like, I don't know, my mom used this 30 years ago and it worked. So therefore it still works, you know?
- [44:02]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [44:03]
Ruby
Even though it's been sitting in my garage for 30 years.
- [44:06]
Amanda
Yeah, exactly. No, I think that's important. Like, I always call this out because I think there's this idea that like, everyone who sells secondhand online is trying to scam me. But most of the time it's just like, people literally do not know.
- [44:17]
Ruby
Yeah, yeah. It's so true. True. It's so true. They just, they just have no idea. And another kind of red flag, I think is like a picture of the machine where it's like you can't see the full machine. Like, a lot of times people will just show you the back of the machine, which is not helpful if it's just a photo of the back of the machine or just a photo of the box that contains the machine. I would just like, message, you know, if it's like a really good deal or something. And you think, maybe I want this just like DM that seller and be like, hey, can I see a picture of the front? Front? Because you don't really want to buy something sight unseen, Especially if it's something like Facebook Marketplace or a yard sale or something where it's like, you're not going to be able to like return that if it doesn't work. I would say in terms of price point, and this might depend on like, what area you're in, but at least around this area, like Pennsylvania, I would say, you know, a decent machine secondhand should probably cost somewhere between, like, like, I don't know, 50 to $200 is.
- [45:16]
Amanda
Kind of what to look.
- [45:18]
Ruby
Yeah, 50 is definitely on the lower end. Like 50 is probably going to be something that was maybe not recently serviced or it's kind of a crapshoot, like whether it's in great working condition or not. And then, you know, something between one and $200. It's like, that should be like a functional, a good, functional machine. Okay, that's good. Yeah. Vintage machines are great. I love vintage machines. I have like, I said like a dozen at least of them from various decades. My oldest machine is from 1910, which is very cool. And my newest machine is from like a couple years ago. So I got the whole, the whole range all the decades. But yeah, so I will say not all vintage machines are equal. And there are some things to keep an eye out for. A lot of older machines, like my beautiful machine from 1910. While it's beautiful and it sews a great stitch, it doesn't have a back stitch function because that was just like, not really around yet. And backstitches is something that you do when you're starting and ending a seam. It essentially, it's like the idea of tying a knot in your thread so that it doesn't come unraveled. So what they would do at that point was they would actually just pivot the whole fabric around and sew backwards for a couple stitches and then pivot the whole fabric back around and sew forward boards. So if you don't want to do that, that is kind of a pain in the butt to do. You might want to avoid machines that are that old. So if you think about, like, a lot of those, like, old, beautiful old singers that are sometimes in cabinets with the treadle and they're like, black with all the gold, like filigree and stuff, those machines, sometimes if they're from, like, maybe like the 1920s or earlier, they. They might not have a back stitch function. So keep that in mind. I. My personal favorite for beginners is looking from, like, the 1960s to 1980s with all metal components.
- [47:12]
Amanda
Okay.
- [47:13]
Ruby
So you will definitely want to find a machine that has a back stitch function that's usually a button or a lever on the front that will make your machine stitch backwards. That is super, super helpful for just, like, starting and ending your seams. You also want to look ideally for a machine that has a zigzag capability. So zigzag machines first started being made, I think, like, in the 40s or 50s. And a zigzag stitch is when your needle, instead of just going up and down, it also goes back and forth, and it creates a stitch in, like, the pattern of a zigzag. And the reason you want that is if you're ever going to sew anything stretchy with elastic or anything that's just like a stretch fabric, zigzag is really helpful because a zigzag stitch will stretch with your fabric. If you sew stretchy fabric with only a straight stitch, it'll break as soon as your fabric. Fabric stretches. So if you ever plan on sewing anything stretchy, which you probably will because it's 2024 and everything has stretch.
- [48:11]
Amanda
You.
- [48:11]
Ruby
Probably want to get a machine that has a zigzag function. You also want to check that it's got a bobbin winder that is also a function that most machines will have sort of in different places. But the bobbin is kind of like a smaller spool of thread that goes in the bottom of the machine. So the way the sewing machine works is you have a thread on top that's like your big spool, and then you have a bobbin thread in the bottom, and then there's the needle. So the top thread gets threaded through kind of a series of, like, loops and channels and tension dials, and then eventually through your needle. And then the bobbin thread sits in the bottom underneath what we call the throat plate, which is like that metal plate that kind of separates, like, the underneath area of the machine from the top. So the needle goes down through the throat plate, and it picks up the bobbin thread. So essentially, sewing with a machine, the way that it's, like, different than hand sewing is that you have two threads that are interlocking. So you have a thread on the top and a thread on the bottom, which is called the bobbin, which is confusing because it's like bobbin bottom, or maybe it's helpful, I don't know. But so you have these two interlocking threads. So you definitely want to make sure that you have the capability to wind a bobbin from your main spool of thread on your sewing machine. If you don't have that, they do make external bobbin winders that you can pick up. But I find it's helpful to just have one on the machine, like, as part of the machine. Some other, like, broke, frequently broken or missing components that you just want to check for. Again, that needle or throat plate, sometimes on older machines, it's missing. So if it looks like you can look into the sewing machine and kind of see the guts of the, like, everything kind of underneath that, like, flat bed of the sewing machine. If it looks like there's kind of like a cover or something missing, that can be a part that you can replace. But a lot of times when people are selling stuff that's been, like, dug out of a garage or something, that piece will be missing. You also want to look for the presser foot, which is this piece. It's kind of hard to explain it. It's like this looks like a little shoe missing.
- [50:20]
Amanda
A lot of secondhand machines.
- [50:22]
Ruby
Yeah, yeah. And it's also. It's a very easily replaceable part. But I just think, like, if you're going to go through the trouble of buying A vintage machine. You want to make sure, like, okay, is this a model number where I can easily find the replacement part, or is this, like, some weird, rare thing where it takes this, like, really special component that's, like, no longer in circulation, that's going to be hard to find, and you don't want to be stuck with a machine where you're like. Like, I can't find the, like, weird, unique, special presser foot for this one model of machine anywhere on the Internet.
- [50:52]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [50:53]
Ruby
Because it basically prevents you from using the machine. You also want to check to make sure that there is a bobbin case. So a lot of older machines have what we call, like, a front loading bobbin, where it's like, underneath that throat plate there is, like, sort of like this metal. Kind of looks like a metal cup that holds this, like, little metal container called the bobbin case that holds the bobbin. Again, easy to replace for the most part, sort of a universal part, but also can vary from machine to machine. Thread stand. This is where you put that spool of thread on the top of your machine. Funny story. I tried to give a virtual sewing lesson once to somebody over Zoom who was, like, setting up their sewing machine for the first time. And it was a vintage sewing machine that they had gotten secondhand. And it was like, during the pandemic. So we're on Zoom. And he was, like, in his garage, there was not very good lighting, and he kept. I kept trying to explain how to thread the machine. And he was like, I don't. Like, I can't find where the thread. Like, he's like. It was, like, very confusing. We were trying. I was like, okay, can you show me your machine? Like, he's, like, trying to shine the camera, like, light at the machine. And I, like, couldn't figure it out. I'm like, okay. Like. And it turned out his thread stand was broken. So the actual. There's like an actual. It looks like a little metal rod that sticks up, or sometimes it's sort of on the back and it sits sideways, but that's where you put your spool of thread. And so he couldn't thread his machine because he didn't know where to put the actual spool of thread. And it was because his thread stand was broken. So make sure you check that, because sometimes those pieces, like, it's. It's small and it's narrow and it sticks up. So they can, like, break off in transit or something. And it'll make it very difficult to thread your machine if you don't have anywhere to put your thread. You also want to check the light bulb. So usually when you turn your machine off and on, there's a little light that will appear like over the needle. So again, you can get replacement bulbs for that, but sometimes those have burnt out. On older machines, you also want to make sure that it comes with a foot pedal and a power cord. Yes, there's a lot of vintage. I see a lot of machines at thrift stores that don't that are missing the foot pedal and power cord. Also stuff on Facebook Marketplace where people will flat out say, I don't know where the cord is.
- [53:05]
Amanda
And then I don't know what you do because that's a piece. I mean you could track it down, but it's going to be hard.
- [53:11]
Ruby
Yes, definitely. I would say make sure before you buy something that doesn't have that, that you know exactly what that model number is of that machine. Because the power cords do vary like wildly from machine to machine. You also want to check the belt drive. So sometimes on older machines the belt drive is actually exposed and you can see it. It looks like a little. I don't like a belt that goes between the motor and the flywheel, which is usually on the right hand side. It's like a big sort of turny bit. So if that belt drive is looking cracked or it's not in good condition or maybe it's missing entirely, that is going to be something that needs to get replaced. So yeah, so we talked a little bit about like how much you should expect to pay for a machine. I would say, you know, if you're thinking of getting a specific machine, look up the model and see what it's selling for.
- [54:06]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [54:06]
Ruby
In other, in other places. Because a lot of times people will price stuff like wildly either way low or super high.
- [54:17]
Amanda
Yeah, definitely. Do not just like make an impulse decision on this. Take a few moments to look it up. And that's like any, any remotely like appliance, electronic device kind of thing. You can't just be like, oh, this seems good.
- [54:31]
Ruby
Totally, totally. Because there's like, there's actually a Facebook group called like I, I think it's called like discussing like pricing for vintage sewing machines or something or ridiculous pricing for vintage sewing machines. And it's just a whole bunch of people who like, are like vintage sewing machine like experts or like mechanics, like laughing because somebody has like, you know, a 1910 singer with no backstitch that's been in their garage since like 1950 and it's like totally rusted out. And in terrible condition, and all the paint's flaking off, and it's missing every single component. And they'll be like, rare, vintage machine, $5,000. And everyone's like, no one's gonna buy that. So, yeah, just keep. Keep an eye out for that. You know, people love to use words like rare and vintage and, like, make you think it's, like, something super limited that you'll only be able to get, you know, from them.
- [55:24]
Amanda
And that's.
- [55:24]
Ruby
That is not true. Just to give you a sense, like, if you are going to buy, like, a 1910 singer with no backstitch, even if it's in really good condition, you really shouldn't pay more than, like, 150 to 200 for it. So. Yeah. So in terms of, like, which models of machines, I do have some thoughts on recommendations.
- [55:44]
Amanda
Okay.
- [55:46]
Ruby
Yeah. So I personally, I learned to sew on a vintage 1970s Sears Kenmore, the best classic. Everybody had these. They were widely produced, which means they are now widely available.
- [55:59]
Amanda
And they're like tanks. They are nice.
- [56:01]
Ruby
They are. I actually have two. I have one that was. That I learned to sew on. That was my mother's high school graduation present.
- [56:07]
Amanda
Oh, wow.
- [56:07]
Ruby
And then I have another one that was actually her mother's machine, so my grandmother's machine. Wow. And they're both, like. They're slightly different, but they're, like that weird 1970s, like, avocado color.
- [56:19]
Amanda
Beautiful. Yeah.
- [56:23]
Ruby
Kind of a greenish, like, yellow army tank kind of color with, like, brown components. With, like, wood grain for some reason.
- [56:33]
Amanda
Always the wood grain. Yeah.
- [56:35]
Ruby
But both of those machines are so solid. These are, like, a dime a dozen at thrift stores. Honestly, you can get one for, like, 50 bucks. You could probably get one at a yard sale. Someone would probably just give you one for free out of the back of their closet because nobody wants them anymore.
- [56:51]
Amanda
Which is too bad, because they're great.
- [56:52]
Ruby
Which is too bad because they're really hardy machines. They're really easy to repair. All the. All of the components are metal for the most part. And because they were so widely produced, there's so many replacement parts available, so that I. I love those. I think they're great beginner machines. They have all the things you need, like the zigzag and the back stitch and, you know, the presser feet and everything. I also am a proud owner of a Bernina 830 record machine. Bernina's were. Bernina is like, a Swiss company, and they're kind of considered like, you know, like, the fancy machines not, not. They're not the only brand, but like, you know, they're kind of considered like a more luxury machine brand. And I will say those Bernina 830 record machines at the time they were produced in the 70s were like a thousand dollars. I actually have actually inherited my aunt's machine from. She has. That's how I got it was. It came from her studio and it had the initial sales receipt in the. The box. And I opened it, it was like she paid like $990, which is like.
- [57:57]
Amanda
Probably like $3,000 now.
- [58:00]
Ruby
I know. And they hold up again like it's all metal components. They're really, really hearty. Berninas are known for having very like even, like strong, even feed and just being like tanks of machines.
- [58:14]
Amanda
So if.
- [58:15]
Ruby
And I. I see these machine, the Bernina Record series, I see those on Facebook Marketplace all the time. People are always getting rid of them. They might be a little more expensive just because they are like really, really good machines, but they're usually like three or four hundred bucks. There's also Nekki is a sewing machine brand that was really popular in the like 1950s, 60s and 70s, and those machines are also really, really decent. We actually had an old Nekki machine at a shop I used to work at and I used it a lot. It's very smooth. It's an Italian company. They're also just kind of cool looking. Like, I think one of my. One of the reasons I love vintage machines so much is like the aesthetics are just great.
- [58:58]
Amanda
I know. Because like now some machines are just like the same white plastic.
- [59:02]
Ruby
Yeah, they're all white plastic. And like the machines from the 60s and 70s were like so fun. Like they're all these great colors. Some of them have like these fancy like chrome finishes.
- [59:13]
Amanda
I feel like there's a lot of.
- [59:15]
Ruby
People in the used sewing machine, vintage sewing machine community that are like, don't just buy off of aesthetics, but like, I totally buy off of aesthetics. I mean, you do want to make sure it works, but also like, I don't know, let yourself have some fun. Yeah, totally. You're supposed to be doing this for fun. Why not have like a bright purple sewing machine? Why not have a green, like avocado green with wood grain sewing machine?
- [59:39]
Amanda
Absolutely, absolutely. It's so sad that sewing machines have gotten so blah.
- [59:43]
Ruby
I know, I know. I just feel like if, you know, and there's so many. These vintage machines are so plentiful because so many people are trying to like replace them with these more modern ones because they just Assume the modern ones are better. And I just feel like we got to save these old machines.
- [59:58]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [59:59]
Ruby
Like we got to save them, we got to keep them in circulation. Because honestly, like that machine I have from 1910 that has lasted 114 years or 100.
- [60:08]
Amanda
Yeah, 100 years to think about and.
- [60:10]
Ruby
It'S probably going to work 100 years from now.
- [60:12]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [60:13]
Ruby
You know, whereas like that, you know, my plastic machine that I bought in like 2013 already feels like it's kind of crapping out on me and I'm probably not really going to be able to repair it. And it's like barely 10 years old.
- [60:23]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [60:24]
Ruby
So I really, I'm a huge fan of like just keeping vintage machines in circulation. Some other kind of like mid range, reliable, reputable machine brands to look for include Singer Brother, Janome. Again, I really like Nekki and Bernina and like Sears Kenmore. But like, those aren't in. Those aren't in production anymore. They're kind of just like older ones. But yeah, just because something, you know, has a recognizable name on it doesn't mean it's like a good machine. And just because something has a name you don't recognize doesn't mean it's a bad machine.
- [60:58]
Amanda
Right.
- [61:00]
Ruby
So just keep that in mind. Sometimes people are like, oh, it has to be a Singer. Because like, I know that Singer sewing machines is like a good, reliable brand that's been around for a long time. And it's like Singers are pretty mid range. Honestly, they're not. You know, it's kind of like car brands where it's like there's some that are like really premium and then there's some that are kind of like.
- [61:17]
Unnamed Speaker
It's fine.
- [61:18]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, totally, totally.
- [61:21]
Ruby
Singer is kind of in that range of like.
- [61:23]
Amanda
It's fine, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [61:26]
Ruby
Also, keep in mind, when you're looking for machines, there's different kinds of sewing machines. If you're brand new to sewing, you just need like a regular sewing machine that does a straight stitch and a zigzag. But once you start getting into it a little bit more, if you find that you're sewing a lot of stretchy cut and sewn knit fabrics or you want to be like finishing your edges, you might want to consider getting a serger, which is also sometimes called an overlocker. And that is a type of machine that will finish. It actually has a knife on it. So it will cut the edge of your fabric off and finish your edge with like an overcast stitch as it it as it sews. Sergers are really fun. I love sewing with sergers. They're like very fast, but they can also be really intimidating. And they have a knife so you can like easily cut your fabric by accident if you're not intending to. So I would say, you know, if you want to get into sergers but you're feeling nervous about it, you know, just like do a lot of practice first or take a class or something just because they are a little bit more, I don't know, just. It's just different to operate them. There's also cover stitch machines which do a specific hem finish on knit fabrics, which is like a stretchy hem. So if you ever wear like T shirts or sweatpants or something, if you look at the hem, it's usually like, it looks like a double line of stitching on the front and then almost like a sort of 2 inch, like overlapping zigzag stitches on the back. And that is like a stretchy hem finish that you could do on. So again, most people don't really buy cover stitch machines until they're like, pretty well into, pretty invested in your hobby because now you've, now we're getting into the area where you have like a bunch of machines set up for different functions. But also, you know, as you're perusing Facebook Marketplace or ebay or whatever, you might also come across like blind stitch machines, buttonhole and bar tack machines, walking foot and industrial machines. And, and as you kind of figure out what type of sewing you like to do the most, you might want to invest in some more specialized machinery. But for the most basic stuff, I would say just get your regular home sewing machine.
- [63:28]
Amanda
Okay, yeah, that's good advice because I have heard people say, like, oh, I just bought an industrial sewing machine I've never sewn before. And I'm like, oh my. I'm nervous for you.
- [63:39]
Ruby
Totally.
- [63:39]
Amanda
It's just more of a mountain to climb, that's all. It's not the end of the world. If you have done something like that. I get to. There's this thought that, like, I want to start with the best, which I totally get. But just we recognize that the learning curve is going to be a lot different.
- [63:53]
Ruby
Totally, totally. And I do so on an industrial machine. And I will say, like, it's a lot faster and you have. I, I feel like when you do start using industrial equipment, like, there is kind of like a level of confidence that you want to have or, you know, take, take a class with somebody who knows how to operate it because like they just move a lot faster so it's a little easier to like accidentally get yourself with the needle or you know, get things. It feels like tangled up.
- [64:19]
Amanda
Getting your learner's permit and then like taking a Maserati out for the spin.
- [64:23]
Ruby
Totally, totally.
- [64:29]
Dustin
Let's take a moment to thank some of the incredible small businesses who keep clotheshorse going via their generous Patreon support. Selena Sanders A social impact brand that specializes in upcycle clothing using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts. Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one's closet for generations to come. Maximum Style Minimal carbon footprint Shift clothing out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon with a focus on natural fibers, simple hard working designs and putting fat people first. Discover more@shiftwheeler.com late to the Party Creating one of a kind statement clothing from vintage, salvaged and thrifted textiles. They hope to tap into the dreamy memories we all hold. Floral curtains, a childhood dress, the wallpaper in your best friend's rec room. All while creating modern, sustainable garments that you'll love wearing and have for years to come. Late to the Party is passionate about celebrating and preserving textiles, the memories they hold and the stories they have yet to tell. Check them out on Instagram eighttothepartypeople.
- [65:43]
Amanda
Vino.
- [65:43]
Dustin
Vintage Based just outside of la, we love the hunt of shopping secondhand because you never know what you might find. Catch us at flea markets around Southern California by following us on Instagram Vino Vintage so you don't miss our next event. Dylan Paige is an online clothing and lifestyle brand based out of St. Louis, Missouri. Our products are chosen with intention for the conscious community. Everything we carry is animal friendly, ethically made, sustainably sourced and cruelty free. Free Dylan Paige is for those who never stop questioning where something comes from. We know that personal experience dictates what's sustainable for you and we are here to help, guide and support you to make choices that fit your needs. Check us out@dylanpage.com and find us on Instagram ylanpage lifeandstyle Salt hats purveyors of truly sustainable hats. Hand blotch, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan. Find us on Instagram Althats Gentle Vibes Vintage we are purveyors of polyester and psychedelic relics. We encourage experimentation and play not only in your wardrobe but in your home too. We have thousands of killer vintage pieces ready for their next adventure. See them all on Instagram. Entlevia Tribes Vintage Thumbprint is Detroit's only fair trade marketplace. Located in the historic Eastern Market. Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa, making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics. We also carry a curated assortment of sustainable and natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life life and for yourself. Browse our online store@thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on InstagramPrintDetroit. Vagavan Vintage DTLV is a vintage clothing, accessories and decor reselling business based in downtown Las Vegas, Nevada. Not only do we sell in Las Vegas, but we're also located throughout resale markets in San Francisco as well as at a curated boutique called Lux and Ivy located in Indianapolis.
- [68:05]
Amanda
Jessica, the founder and owner of Vagabond.
- [68:07]
Dustin
Vintage DTLV recently opened the first IRL location located in the Arts district of downtown Las Vegas on August 5th. The shop has a strong emphasis on 60s and 70s garments, single stitch tees and dreamy loungewear. Follow them on Instagram vagabondvintagedtlv and keep an eye out for their website. Coming fall of 2022.
- [68:35]
Amanda
Let'S talk about sewing patterns a little bit because it's I will tell you, the first time I sewed with a sewing pattern, I felt like I was gonna lose my mind. It's really stressful for the first time around, especially if you're doing it by yourself. But it seems like if you were gonna sew a garment, you probably do wanna use a sewing pattern. You're nodding your head. Okay. Instead of improvising thing, Right. What do you recommend there? Like where to start? Because I, you know, let's say you go to Joanne, right. You're like, I'm gonna get a sewing pattern. There are books and books and books and they're really fun to look at.
- [69:13]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [69:13]
Amanda
But you're sort of like, what should I buy?
- [69:17]
Ruby
Totally. Yeah. No, that, that is a really great question. I did start sewing with those patterns like I mentioned mentioned when I was a teenager and was frankly mostly disappointed with the fit and with how they came out, even though I felt pretty comfortable following the instructions. But the instructions can be, the instructions can be like a little challenging sometimes. I do think it's smart to start with sewing patterns because there's kind of two separate aspects to garment design. There is the like pattern making side of stuff where it's like you're are actually designing like you were deciding the shapes that get cut out and sewn together to make Whatever garment. And then there's the actual act of, like, cutting out those shapes and sewing them together to make the garment. So sometimes when you're just starting, someone has already kind of chosen the shapes for you, it kind of eliminates a step. And you're like, okay, I'm just, like, learning how to put this together. It's kind of like assembling IKEA furniture, where you're like, I know what this is supposed to look like. Like, I've been given all the pieces, and now I need to follow the directions and just, like, attach things as needed. And, like. Yeah. So I. I find that to be helpful to at least. At least try a couple sewing patterns first, just so you kind of get a sense for how shapes come together to form a 3D garment that, like, fits over your body. There's so the. The patterns that come in the envelopes at, like, Joann Fabrics. We call those the Big Four patterns. Patterns. And it's called Big Four because there's, like, four brands. McCall's, Butterick, Vogue, and Simplicity. And they have sort of, like, for a long time were, like, the only ones. Yeah, they were the only ones. Like, they had that market cornered. And then probably in, like, the early 2000s and like, 2010s, we started to see this rise of indie sewing patterns, which are mostly like, downloadable PDFs online or these, like, smaller pattern companies. There were other pattern companies that existed in, like, the 70s, 80s and 90s as well, but we started to kind of see this rise of this, like, smaller industry of, like, individual pattern makers and these other brands that were making alternatives to Big four. So I. I personally am a huge fan of indie sewing patterns. I think that there's just a lot more sort of diversity in that space. You can find something that is maybe, like, designed a little bit more specifically to your esthetics or your body type. One great place to learn about indie sewing patterns or really all patterns. There's a website called pattern review.com and it is a very cool website. It's got, like, a whole bunch of. You can search by pattern name or number. So if you're like, I want to make, you know, Butterick 2765 or whatever, or you're like, I want to make the. The Helen's Closet Gilbert Top or something. You can, like, type that in and you'll get all these reviews. And they're not affiliated in any way with the pattern companies. It's just a database of feedback on the patterns. So you might be able to see pictures of people who've made that garment from that pattern before. If there's a lot of consistent feedback or maybe a lot of people are saying like this came out too small or like this pattern was awful, like it was missing pieces or something, something like it's a good way to kind of quality check before you commit. So I really do recommend that there's also the Curvy Pattern Database, which is a wonderful resource that is maintained by a sewist named Sarah Thomas, who is great. And Curvy Pattern Database is a database of pattern companies that have extended size ranges into plus sizes and what the maximum measurements are on their size traction charts. So if you are in a larger body and you're like, I need to find a pattern company that makes a pants pattern for, you know, somebody with like a 65 inch hip, like you can search on Curvy pattern database, like 65 inch hip and all the companies that serve that size range will come up, which I think is really helpful. So it's like a good place to kind of start looking. There is also Etsy. I know you've talked about Etsy, Etsy a lot on the podcast. I am not currently selling on Etsy, but there are a lot of people who do sell their sewing patterns on Etsy and you can kind of use that as a, as a search engine to find things. I will say if you find a designer on Etsy, see if they have their own website and order from their own website like by the name of the company or something, just because Etsy is like kind of like a mean landlord to their, their, to their tenants. But I will say, yeah, you also want to be careful with Etsy because there's a lot of very cheap sewing patterns that are like two or three or five dollars and a lot of times they're crap. Like I've had students who've downloaded them and they just sort of seem like mysterious and weird and there's like, there's not like the pieces don't fit together or there's no sewing instructions and it just, it's like if it's suspiciously cheap, it, it probably is for a reason.
- [74:18]
Amanda
I didn't even know people were scamming with patterns. Oh, totally, totally Internet man.
- [74:24]
Ruby
Yeah, I know it's kind of a bummer. But another good way to find patterns is to follow sewing bloggers and influencers whose style you like. So that's a great way to kind of figure out like what sewing patterns they're using for their garments. If you're seeing like a lot of times, companies will have a hashtag for the pattern. So you can search the hashtag, like, on Instagram or on Pinterest or something and see, you know, everybody who's made it and what their version looked like. So you can see it on a bunch of different bodies. You can also. I don't know if I think people are still doing this, but on Instagram, you can. There's like, a body measurement hashtag, which is like, hashtag, like, bust, waist, hip. So a lot of people use that as, like, hashtag. Like, mine would be like, hashtag b48w42h44 whatever, right? So you just kind of put in your measurement in inches. But you can find people who have, like, similar proportions that way and be like, what are they sewing?
- [75:22]
Amanda
That's a good idea.
- [75:23]
Ruby
Which is really helpful because not all sewing patterns are made for all bodies. There's also you can search by specific, like, community hashtags. So there's like a so tall and a so petite hashtag. There's also a sew queer hashtag that a lot of folks use. So if you're like, I'm looking for a particular type of style or I want to see other petite sewists or something, like, you can find people through those hashtags.
- [75:46]
Amanda
I have a question for you about patterns. So Avid Thrifter here, right? I see sewing patterns. Every thrift store, tons of them. Sometimes if you go to, like, a chain thrift store, like a Savers or a Goodwill, they'll literally have them bagged up.
- [75:59]
Ruby
Oh, totally.
- [76:01]
Amanda
Most of the time, they seem to be vintage. And by vintage, I mean, like. Like, at the very newest 90s. A lot of 80s. I see a lot of 80s. Are those more difficult to sew with? Do you. Are there any challenges there that you would just, like, want to call out, or do you think they're a good idea? I'm assuming they're already cut.
- [76:19]
Ruby
Yeah. So, okay, so that is a great question. If you're buying vintage sewing patterns, especially if you're. If you're finding them on, like, ebay or Facebook marketplace, a lot of times people will specify whether the pattern has been cut into or whether it's uncut. So if, you know, like, I need the large, you want to look for, like, uncut patterns. Because if somebody's already cut into it, let's say, you know, you need a size 14, but they cut the size 10.
- [76:43]
Amanda
Like, what are you gonna do? I know, I know. That's. I see that time, and I'm like, oh, My gosh. Like, I'd have to, like, open them up and, like, go through the whole thing, which doesn't mean that you should ignore them. They're worth a look.
- [76:58]
Ruby
Totally.
- [76:59]
Amanda
I also, like, I. This. I've never sewn with a vintage pattern, so, like, take this with a grain of sal. But I've heard anecdotally that the sizing is going to be a lot different.
- [77:08]
Ruby
Yes. Yeah. So pattern sizing has changed a lot over the years. I will say that sewing pattern sizing tends to skew a lot smaller than ready to wear sizing. However, a lot of modern patterns, especially those, like, big four patterns that you get at Joann's or Michaels, they're built with, like, a lot of extra wearing ease, which means the actual difference between the finished garment measurement and your body measurements can be significant. For example, I have a somewhat modern sewing pattern that I think is from McCall's for, like, a jumpsuit. It's super cute. I looked at the size chart, and I was like, okay, according to the size chart, I'm, like, a size, like, 26 or 28, which is kind of wild because I usually wear, like, an 1820. So, like, look at the size chart. But then I'm looking at the actual finished garment measurements, and I'm seeing that, like, the finished, like, pit to pit or, like, bust or chest measurement on this garment is, like, like, 55 inches.
- [78:04]
Amanda
Do you think they do that so that. I'm just assuming people have bought these, sewn the wrong size or whatever, and then it doesn't fit them, and they're, like, mad at my calls, which. I get it.
- [78:14]
Dustin
Right.
- [78:14]
Amanda
And so now they're trying to overcorrect.
- [78:16]
Ruby
I. Yeah, I've wondered that, too. I honestly have wondered that, too, because I'm like, this seems like, like, a crazy amount of ease. Like, I feel like I would put this on and feel like I'm swimming in it. But I also feel like it's like, just let people figure. I don't know. Just, like, let people figure it out, you know? Like, first of all, the sizing numbers, like, don't let that impact you psychologically because it's just a number, and they're.
- [78:41]
Amanda
Really arbitrary, and they're totally different than, like, clothes that you buy yourself.
- [78:45]
Ruby
If you're looking at the size chart and you're like, why am I a size 14 when I usually wear a size 8?
- [78:49]
Amanda
Like, just get that out of your head.
- [78:50]
Ruby
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
- [78:51]
Amanda
That's like, lesson number one.
- [78:53]
Ruby
Just replace that 14 with an eight in your head. Whatever you need to do.
- [78:56]
Amanda
Yeah, exactly. I think that's really important because I remember the first time I sewed from a pattern, I was like, wait, what? And then I got in my head about it. Yeah. And now. And now, of course, like, you know, I'm like, oh, well, sizing those numbers, no matter where, whether it's a pattern or something you bought, it's like so arbitrary and inconsistent. It doesn't mean anything and just like, ignore it.
- [79:14]
Ruby
Yeah. It's like your body measurements are your body measurements and that's really what you need to keep in mind when choosing your size. So. But yes, I think as you go into vintage patterns, the sizing systems do get different. So I would say, you know, look at the size chart on the envelope. If there's any finished garment measurements on the envelope, compare the size chart with the finished garment measurements. So if it says like, hey, you know, the size 16 is this size, bust, waist and hips. But then you're like, okay, but on the actual garment, the finished waist circumference is this, or the finished bust circumference is this. Like, just make a note of that because maybe you do want to size down or up a little bit.
- [79:52]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [79:53]
Ruby
I will say also, a lot of vintage patterns that exist tend to skew smaller. It's really, really hard, hard to find vintage sewing patterns in plus sizes.
- [80:03]
Amanda
I believe it.
- [80:04]
Ruby
And I don't know if it's just that they weren't making any or if maybe the ones that did exist just like got used and thrown out, you know.
- [80:11]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah.
- [80:12]
Ruby
Whereas maybe the smaller ones, like, they just weren't cut into. But yeah, I will say, like, yeah, check the sizing. I think, I think vintage patterns can be great. They may not have as comprehensive sewing instructions as like modern indie patterns will have.
- [80:27]
Amanda
That's true.
- [80:28]
Ruby
That is something that I think is really valuable about indie sewing patterns is a lot of the people who make them put a lot of thought and care into how the instructions are laid out. So they're often a lot more detailed. There might be like really good illustrations or photographs or maybe like a video sew along or something that goes with the pattern, which can be really helpful depending on your learning style. So if you're the kind of person who feels like, eh, I don't need that much instruction, I can probably just like, figure this out out, go for it, Buy the vintage pattern. But if you're like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to figure this out. I want A video tutorial or I want, like, really detailed illustrated instructions. You might have better luck with, like, more modern sewing patterns.
- [81:08]
Amanda
Totally. And I think, you know, the first time you sew with a pattern, like I said, feels so stressful because you're like, if I cut this thing out wrong, that's it. Right? It's like, double check, triple. Make sure you've covered all your bases. There's this. I. I used to. One of my jobs I had was like, designing, like, merchandising concepts. And we would build a lot of fixtures and stuff. And the carpenter I worked with would always say, you know, measure twice, cut once.
- [81:34]
Ruby
Oh, yeah.
- [81:34]
Amanda
And I feel I was like, oh, man, that is like sewing right there. Right?
- [81:38]
Ruby
It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, just in general, it's kind of funny because people will say they feel like, scared of sewing and I'm like, actually cutting is scarier. Like with the sewing, like, once the.
- [81:51]
Amanda
Cutting is over, it's like you're breezing through.
- [81:53]
Ruby
Totally, totally. And it's like, even if you mess something up on the sewing machine, like there's a seam ripper, you can always like, undo your stitches. Whereas if you cut something out the wrong size or you like, make a mistake cutting into your fabric, like, if you don't have extra fabric, like, I know. You know, that's like a lot more consequential.
- [82:09]
Amanda
Yeah, for sure.
- [82:15]
Dustin
If you're enjoying this episode, then this is the a great time to remind you that my work here at Clothes Horse is made possible by the support of listeners like you. Just like NPR and these great small businesses. Please go give them your support. Blank cas, or Blanket Coats by cas, is focused on restoring, renewing and reviving the history held within vintage and heirloom textiles by embodying the love, craft and energy that is original to each vintage textile. As I transfer it into a new garment, I hope we can reteach ourselves to care for, amend what we have and make it last. Blank CAS lives on Instagram at Blankass and a website will be launched soon@blankcas.com located in Whistler, Canada. Velvet Underground is a velvet jungle full of vintage and secondhand clothing plants, a.
- [83:15]
Amanda
Vegan cafe, and lots of rad products.
- [83:18]
Dustin
From other small sustainable businesses.
- [83:21]
Amanda
Our mission is to create a brand.
- [83:23]
Dustin
And community dedicated to promoting self expression as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle both for the people and the planet. Find us on Instagram shopvelvetunderground or online at www.shopvelvetunderground.com. st. Evens is a New York City based vintage vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you'll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month. New Vintage is released every Thursday@wearsaintevens.com with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram Wears.
- [84:14]
Amanda
That'S where.
- [84:15]
Dustin
Saint Evens Country Feedback is a mom and pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares. Do you have used records you want to sell? Country Feedback wants to buy them? Find us on Instagram countryfeedbackvintageandvinyl or head down east and visit our brick and mortar. All are welcome at this inclusive and family friendly record shop in the country. Republica Unicornia Yarns Handmade yarn and notions for the color obsessed. Made with love and some swearing in fabulous Atlanta, Georgia by head yarn wench Kathleen. Get ready for rainbows with a side of giving a damn. Republica Unicornia is all about making your own magic using small batch, responsibly sourced, hand dyed yarns and thoughtfully made notions. Slow Fashion all the way down and discover the joy of creating your very own beautiful hand knit, crocheted or woven pieces. Find us on Instagram @republicaunicorniarns and at www.republicaunicornia.com. picnic Wear a slow fashion brand ethically made by hand from vintage and dead stock materials, most notably vintage towels. Founder Dani has worked in the industry as a fashion Designer for over 10 years, but started Picnic Wear in response to her dissatisfaction with the industry's shortcomings. Picnicware recently moved to rural North Carolina where all their sewing and accessories are now designed and cut, but the majority of their sewing is done by skilled garment workers in New York City. Their customers take comfort in knowing that all their sewists are paid well above New York City minimum wage. Picnic Wear offers minimal wage, waste and maximum authenticity. Future vintage over future garbage. Cute Little Ruin is an online shop dedicated to providing quality vintage and secondhand clothing, vinyl and home items in a wide range of styles and price points. If it's ethical and legal, we try to find a home for it. Vintage style with progressive values. Find us on Instagram utelittleruin Is there a little bit of Italy in your soul? Are you an enthusiast of pre loved decor and accessories? Bring vintage Italian style and history into your space with the pewter thimble. We source useful and beautiful things and mend them where needed. We also find gorgeous illustrations and make them print worthy tarot cards, tea towels and hand picked treasures available to you from the comfort of your own home, responsibly sourced from across Rome, lovingly renewed by fairly paid artists and artisans with something for every budget. Discover more at theputerthimble.com Deco Denim is a startup based out of San Francisco and it sells clothing and accessories that are sustainable, gender fluid, size inclusive and high quality, made to last for years to come. Deco Denim is trying to change the way you think about buying clothes. Founder Sarah Mattis wants to empower people to ask important questions like where was this made? Was this garment made ethically? Is this fabric made of plastic? Can this garment be upcycled? And if not, can it be recycled?
- [87:44]
Amanda
Sign up@decodenim.com to receive $20 off your first purchase.
- [87:50]
Dustin
They promise not to spam you and send out no more than three emails a month with two of them surrounding education or a personal note from the founder. Again, that's Deco Denim.
- [88:08]
Amanda
You know, as a person who's literally never made a pattern in my life, and I will say, like sometimes struggles to follow a pattern too. Less for me, the written instructions aspect of it, more of the abject panic that I'm gonna mess it up. It like shuts me down and I can't move on. So the thought of creating a pattern seems like some mystical power like that you were. Were bestowed with from birth. Like, I don't know, very, very lucky. So like, tell me where you start with a pattern, like, because I. This takes a long time. Right. How does it start?
- [88:44]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. So pattern making. And I don't know if we like defined it before, but like basically a sewing pattern is like a template of multiple shapes that get cut out of fabric and sewn together in a particular way to form a particular style of garments.
- [88:57]
Ruby
Garment.
- [88:58]
Unnamed Speaker
So in case you were like, what even is a sewing pattern?
- [89:01]
Amanda
We should have covered that earlier. Yeah, surprise.
- [89:04]
Unnamed Speaker
That's like a good. Yeah, hopefully that's like a helpful definition. But there's basically, there's three ways. I, I think there are three main ways to go about pattern making. There's flat drafting, there's draping, and there's tracing off existing garments. So the first method, flat drafting, that is also what we sometimes refer to as like the textbook method. And what we usually do is we draw out what we call the sloper or the basic block in your sample Size. So that involves getting somebody who is your fit model or your, you know, your sample size person, which, you know, if you're making patterns for yourself, it's probably yourself. And you're going to take like a whole bunch of measurements. It's usually like a couple dozen different body measurements. And then you plot these numbers out onto, like, sometimes you use almost like a graph paper, but you can also use whatever paper. But you need a lot of rulers and like pencils, and you're kind of plotting out all of these distances and it'll be like, you know, mark a line 2 inches up from this measurement. Now square line down.
- [90:10]
Amanda
This sounds stressful area.
- [90:12]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. And there, there's different. There's different, like, flat pattern making methods. But essentially what this does is it gives you that basic shape. And then you can use what' called pattern manipulation techniques to turn this basic block, this basic shape into all different styles of garments. So typically, you'll have like a bodice, a sleeve, a skirt, and a pant block. Those are sort of considered your basic blocks that cover different parts of the body. And you'll use those to create like, an endless variation of other patterns. Draping, which is the second method that's usually associated with like, more sculptural styles of garments. So when you think about, like, evening wear or bridal things where there's a lot of fabric that's like sitting either very close to the body and hugging the contours of the body or very far away from the body, like maybe you have a very wide, long skirt that has like a train or cowls or like, kind of all these different details that are a little bit more difficult to. Flat pattern. And draping means that you're actually taking fabric and you're holding it directly up to the body or the dress form, and you're sort of forming the fabric into the shape that you want, marking off, you know, the edges of that, of that piece, and then you're transferring it back to paper. So you kind of have your patterns that way. Like you're sort of starting in the 3D as opposed to starting in the 2D. I use draping a lot when I used to work at a place that did, like, mascots and puppets, because we were working with a lot of very oddly shaped bodies.
- [91:45]
Amanda
Right, Makes sense.
- [91:46]
Unnamed Speaker
And so. So I've gotten pretty good at draping foundational garments for all different styles of all different shapes and sizes of creatures.
- [91:56]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [91:59]
Unnamed Speaker
So like, when I teach my basic block development class, I use like, kind of a draping forward method just because it works more effectively across a wide range of bodies. Flat pattern making. A lot of the times it's sort of similar to grading where there's a lot of formulas that are sort of making some assumptions about the standard shapes or standard sizes of a body. And then lastly, that third method, which is tracing off. You will probably know this as the most widely used pattern making method in the fashion industry because it's very efficient. So this means a company will buy samples, AKA garments from another brand.
- [92:38]
Amanda
And these are not samples, my friends. These are something someone else made. And I. Yes, honestly, like Ruby, when you work within the industry, you just get used to, like, the vernacular. You don't think twice about it. Yeah, for me, the moment after I stopped working in the industry and I was like, wait, those were not samples, my friends. Like, they were just clothes from another store. Yeah, like, I knew that, but like, just the fact that we would use that word and we'd be like, it's sample review. And the whole wall would be stuff made by someone else. It was like, wow, that is really messed up stuff. We're 10.
- [93:13]
Ruby
Yeah, it is.
- [93:15]
Unnamed Speaker
But I will say, you know, it's very efficient. Like, if you are looking at a.
- [93:18]
Ruby
Different brand and you're saying, hey, you.
- [93:19]
Unnamed Speaker
Know, I really, like, really like the fit of these jeans.
- [93:22]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [93:23]
Unnamed Speaker
It's gonna be a lot faster for you to just trace them off than it is for you to, like, draft that whole pattern from scratch based off of your sloper. I will say I've looked into this quite a bit because I am a pattern maker and I'm curious about, like, I'm. I mean, it's sort of an ethically gray area. Like, if you're using, you know, clothes from another brand as your base, I'm sort of of the thought that, like, if you're modifying, if you're kind of just using it as your foundation and then you're gonna make changes to it. Like, you're just like, okay, get me something that's like, close enough to the fit of the jeans, but then I'm gonna make it a wider leg and add a different pocket detail.
- [94:01]
Ruby
I think that's.
- [94:02]
Unnamed Speaker
Personally, my feelings about that is that it's totally fine to, like, use that as a shortcut, but interestingly, you actually.
- [94:10]
Amanda
Can'T copyright a pattern shape, which is wild.
- [94:15]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. So it. I mean, it kind of makes sense because I feel like, you know, there's only kind of so many shapes that, like, a fitted sleeve can be right and if a company was like, we own this fitted sleeve shape, like, it's like, okay, what is everybody else supposed to do? You know?
- [94:30]
Amanda
Yeah, true.
- [94:31]
Unnamed Speaker
And it's quite likely that different designers will arrive at the same shapes just based on. I don't know. Even if they did make it from scratch.
- [94:39]
Ruby
Right.
- [94:40]
Amanda
It's like in the ether. Sometimes I think, like, it is like we're just. I don't know, it's like humans communicate telepathically sometimes, I swear, and we don't know it, and then suddenly we all are excited about the same thing at the same time. And like, in fashion, it will happen a lot. Which is not to say, yes, there are brands like, buying quote unquote samples and straight up copying things for sure. But also it's just like all of a sudden we're really into coral, all of us. Why? I don't know, you know, but it's. It just like, it happens.
- [95:10]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So something, something kind of interesting to note, like along these lines, is that. So pattern shapes are not like, you cannot copyright that or trademark that, but you can copyright a logo or a brand mark. So when you think about luxury designer goods and the fact that it's got like Gucci or Chanel or Louis Vuitton logo goes all over it, the reason they're doing that is actually like as like an IP protection technique. Like all of that, like logo mania, you know, when we think about like, because it was like the late 90s, early aughts, like that whole trend of like having your, you know what, your Dooney and Burke handbag that's covered in DB or whatever. Like, the reason they would do that was because, like, yeah, another company could just as easily make that same handbag in that exact same shape, but they can't get the logo.
- [96:00]
Amanda
They can't get the Dooney and Burke.
- [96:02]
Ruby
Yeah. As soon, as soon as they copy.
- [96:04]
Unnamed Speaker
The logo, then that opens them up to lawsuits. So it's a way to kind of signal like, I am, you know, this is high end. I can afford this designer good because it's got the logo all over it. Whereas you can't be like, you know, I don't know if you think about like the Levi's 501s or whatever, like, probably so many brands have just ripped off that.
- [96:24]
Amanda
Oh, for sure. I mean, I totally have, like seen someone bring in a pair of vintage 501s and someone take them to the back and start tracing them. Like, this is. Oh, definitely.
- [96:35]
Ruby
Yeah, definitely.
- [96:36]
Amanda
There are all these different ways that you can get the pattern together, but how do you test it? Because you mentioned earlier, like, you reach a point where you're like, okay, I'm ready to test this on people. Usually after you fit it on a model. How does the testing work? Because I know in the world of, like, indie knitting and crochet, often, like, people will volunteer to be part of, like, a testing, I don't know, cohort for a style. How does that work? Does it. Does it work similarly in patterns?
- [97:05]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it does. So we have in kind of in the DIY crafting community, there's a process called pattern testing, and that is where usually a group of hobbyists will volunteer or, like, be recruited to test a pattern within a set time frame for the designer. And usually the intention is that they will make up a sample in their size and offer feedback on the fit and maybe, like, the sewing instructions or the knitting instructions to the designer. So this is kind of seen. It's interesting. There's definitely been some controversy around this because it's typically unpaid labor.
- [97:42]
Amanda
Right.
- [97:44]
Unnamed Speaker
So, you know, people who sign up to pattern test, I mean, sometimes depending on the complexity of the garment, like, you can be spending, like, you know, 10, 12, 20 hours maybe on. On testing something for somebody, depending, you know, if it's something really involved. So it's quite a lot of time that you're putting into it. And I think sometimes pattern testers who do it a lot can start to feel like maybe they're being taken advantage of or, you know, the designer isn't taking their feedback or they have questions and they're being, like, ignored. And so, I mean, I know, like, every time that I've run pattern testing, I always, like, kind of get nervous and want to make sure that everyone who's testing is, like, going to have a good experience and feel, like, supported by me and feel seen by me and feel like their feedback got incorporated into the final design. When I test, I usually use, like, a smaller group of people. Like, I think my last pattern test, I had maybe 14 people and either, like 10 or, like a dozen people, like, actually finished the testing process. And typically they'll get, like, the pattern. The final pattern files for free. So it's like, it's hardly a consolation.
- [98:56]
Ruby
Considering it's like, the final patterns, maybe.
- [98:58]
Unnamed Speaker
Like, 15, 20 bucks or something.
- [99:00]
Amanda
That's wild. That's wild. But I also, like. I don't know how indie pattern makers could exist if they had to pay everyone.
- [99:10]
Unnamed Speaker
Exactly. I mean, like I said, like, people often put, you know, hundreds of hours into developing a pattern. And so, you know, even if you pay. Paid ten people each a hundred dollars, that's $1,000, and you haven't even paid yourself yet for all of that time. Right. I think people do it often because they want to support the indie designers. Like, I think it's really important as a designer to, like, cultivate goodwill with your testers and, you know, be as generous and as, like, handholdy and, like, supportive as possible. I know I did a pattern a couple years ago where I actually did crowdfund on Kickstarter to pay testers, and I did offer Everybody, like, a $100 stipend to test it for me, which was really wonderful to be able to do that, but also to be totally honest, like, it financially set me back so far on the pattern because it's like, I hadn't even, like, yes, I had money to pay people, but I didn't pay myself. So it was tough, you know, it was tough to kind of make that calculation. So, like, going forward, I've been kind of offering, like, a short. A small, like, material stipend. So, like, and it's not even, you know, necessarily for everybody, but, like, if you don't necessarily have fabric that you can test the design with and, you know, you want to, like, ask for a material stipend, I can give people, like, $20 towards materials, which I have had, you know, a couple handful of people took me up on, and a lot of people said, like, don't worry about it. I actually have plenty of fabric. Like, I'm good. But, yeah, I think it's. It's a difficult. It's a difficult process to navigate, I think, on both sides. I mean, I think the people who test a lot of times what they're hoping to get out of it is, you know, a little bit more exposure to, like, what that back end of the design process looks like. I think it can also be helpful. You know, you're sewing a pattern, but you have a little bit. Or you're knitting a pattern or crocheting a pattern, but you have a little bit more support. Like, it's almost like you're doing it within a cohort of people. So there's people you can ask questions to. And this idea of, like, you're doing something together in a group, and there's a timeline, there's some accountability for it. I think that that is all valuable to people that choose to participate in testing. That being said, a lot of people don't participate in testing because they're Like, I just don't want to give that much of my time away. And that's totally fair.
- [101:32]
Ruby
I think something else that I try.
- [101:33]
Unnamed Speaker
To do, and I don't know if other designers do this, but I think that people should is fit testing the larger, especially the larger sizes before you send it into testing. So I will hire somebody to come in in person studio that I can like put a sample on and just like make sure everything looks good. Because again, like in, during that grading process like we talked about, sometimes the larger sizes can get really messed up. And so a lot of times you'll see on some of those, like Reddit forums and stuff, designers will be complaining, like, how come I can't get any larger people to test my patterns? And it's like, because how much would it suck if you put in like 10 hours to testing some pattern and you sewed it up and it fit terribly and you're not even getting paid for that time?
- [102:16]
Amanda
Yeah. That's so sad. I hate that.
- [102:19]
Unnamed Speaker
It's really discouraging. So, I mean, I feel like if you want to build goodwill with larger testers, you know, people in larger bodies who are going to sew your designs, like, there has to be representation and you also have to have like some, some fail safes in place where you're like, you at least know that the thing you're giving them to test is like the best you could do up until that point and not just like some really half assed first draft.
- [102:44]
Ruby
True.
- [102:44]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [102:45]
Unnamed Speaker
Just disrespect. Full of people's time.
- [102:47]
Amanda
Totally.
- [102:48]
Unnamed Speaker
And then also like, larger sizes are going to take more materials too. So it's a little bit more expensive for people in larger bodies to test because especially if you think about knitting and like how many skeins of yarn you're going to need to buy for a sweater or even just how much material you're going to need to make.
- [103:02]
Ruby
Right.
- [103:02]
Unnamed Speaker
Like, a large sweater takes a lot more time to knit than a small sweater. So being aware of that, I think, you know, that does create some impact balances in the testing process because somebody who wears a size 2 can maybe knit it up in a weekend where somebody who, you know, wears a size 20 or a size 30, like that might take them a couple weeks.
- [103:22]
Amanda
Yeah, that's a really good.
- [103:24]
Unnamed Speaker
So much more to make.
- [103:25]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're making the fabric yourself, you know. Okay, so from beginning to end, how long is the pattern creation process? Process including testing, fitting, all of that?
- [103:41]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, great question. So I feel like there's kind of a difference between like the DIY and like the fashion industry. So I know, you know, in the fashion industry everything's getting more and more rushed. Sometimes they're skipping fittings altogether and just like sending things into production, or maybe they're relying on software to kind of simulate a fitting and get it like close enough. I think, you know, in the DIY and crafting community, it really depends on the complexity of the design. You know, if you're making something that just has a couple pieces or a couple components, it might be anywhere from like a month or two to maybe, you know, maybe six months, maybe even a year. If it's something really complex and you're the only person working on it. Generally it's kind of considered like good practice to give at least a two week testing window for like a very simple design and then maybe even a two month window for something that is like really complex. So that means that, you know, you're giving your pool of, you know, 10 or 20 or 100. However many testers you have, you're giving them a window of time to sew up their sample and provide feedback. And people usually won't test something if the timeline doesn't really, really isn't realistic. If it's like, hey, there's no way I can knit a sweater in two weeks or four weeks or something, they just won't do it.
- [105:04]
Ruby
So I feel like designers have to.
- [105:05]
Unnamed Speaker
Kind of do what works for the testers in that regard.
- [105:08]
Amanda
That makes sense.
- [105:09]
Unnamed Speaker
Which also can influence the timeline of your own production as a pattern designer because you can only, I mean, you should ideally only release things after they've been tested and after you've taken that testing feedback and, and you know, made edits or adjustments to the pattern.
- [105:24]
Amanda
A lot of the, I don't know, discourse, we'll say that I see around pattern testing, like more negative discourse tends to be related to timeline and like, not enough time, not good communication. It's like, often tends to be more that than like, oh, this pattern was terrible. And I think it just, it comes back to like, people, people just, I don't know, being people and like communicating better. Yeah, yeah, totally. But I do see a lot of that. So you're going to need all this time for a testing. So basically like, it could take anywhere from like a few months to like a year to produce a pattern. Yeah, yeah, that sounds about right. That's, I mean, in the past for you, like, what do you say on average it has taken you.
- [106:13]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, great question. So my first pattern that I released was my, my Spokesman Stitches. It was a fanny pack pattern and.
- [106:21]
Ruby
It was like, very simple, but I.
- [106:23]
Unnamed Speaker
Was learning how to do everything for the first time. Like, I was like, it was my first time doing any sort of like digital pattern making in Illustrator and I had to make all the instructions and everything. And I would say I probably spent like three months on that. And looking back on it, I'm like, oh, that's like a pretty clunky pattern. Like, it's not that good. But yeah, I mean, I. The most recent pattern that I just released for Starling Petite plus, which is a tank top pattern that probably took. I want to say I probably started that in June and I released it in mid August. So that's probably two months. Two months start to finish. But I did receive feedback from my testers that like, it was a two week testing window and some people said that they wished it had been a little longer. So, I mean, that's something that I will take into account in the future. You know, it's like trying to budget a little bit more time for testing.
- [107:12]
Amanda
Yeah, I mean, that does like, I don't know, two weeks does not feel like very much time. Like if you have like a normal life with like, other stuff to do. So that that makes sense. Well, let's, let's talk about Starling Petite plus, because this is your new pattern line. Obviously you've made patterns before. For example, a fanny pack. What made you decide to start a pattern line that was specifically petite and plus?
- [107:39]
Ruby
Yeah, great question.
- [107:42]
Unnamed Speaker
So like you mentioned, I did previously release a couple other sewing patterns under my sort of main brand called Spokesman Stitches. I started spokesman stitches in 2020. So, like peak pandemic. It was also a time when there was a lot of activism in the sewing community that was pushing for more size and gender inclusivity. So I, I really dedicated a lot of time to looking over size chart data, population surveys, really any anthropometric data sources that I could get my hands on. And I was really trying to come up with like the perfect, most inclusive size chart. So for Spokesman Stitches, I sort of settled on this linear and dynamic fit system where I had two different size charts and each pattern was drafted for two different sets of body proportions. So I had one that was a little bit straighter. You know, think like narrower hips and a smaller chest and one that was a little bit more curvy. So larger chest, larger hips, smaller waist. And the idea was that sewists could kind of mix and match the tops and Bottoms of these patterns to get like a more customized fit depending on their body shape. So it was kind of a fun challenge to draft this way. It was like new for me. There wasn't really, at the time, I don't think think there was really any other companies, any other pattern companies at least who were drafting in this way. But it was a ton of work. And then I quickly kind of became discouraged because I was trying so hard to appeal to like, what I saw as these like, averages. But I had kind of written my own proportions completely out of the size chart.
- [109:16]
Ruby
Oh, wow.
- [109:17]
Unnamed Speaker
So I would, whenever I made my own pattern, which was like, so silly, I would like pull up my own pattern and then I would have to do all these alterations to. With to get it to fit my body better because I was like, oh, well, it has to be drafted for a height of 5, 6, because that's like the average height the patterns are drafted for. And you know, the linear fit is this and the dynamic fit is this. Because these seem to be the two averages that I'm seeing kind of the most of.
- [109:41]
Ruby
But.
- [109:41]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, but then I was like, oh, but none of this actually fits me. I'm like, this is kind of silly because I'm like, obviously trying to design this like around my own, right, personal style, my own desires for like, garments that I want to see. So, yeah, so I kind of put it on the shelf for a while and I focused a little bit more on teaching. I didn't release any sewing patterns for a couple of years. And more recently, in doing a little bit more research, I actually learned that the average height of, we'll say assigned female at birth people in the US is actually 5 foot 4, not 5 foot 6.
- [110:16]
Amanda
Let's talk about interesting a little bit.
- [110:18]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. Which is interesting thing because 5 foot 6 is kind of the most commonly used for sewing patterns. Maybe that's based off of like a global average, not like a US average. I don't know. But then we also see a lot of like, in fashion school, I was always taught that like 5 foot 8 is the minimum height for like fashion models in the industry.
- [110:36]
Amanda
Right.
- [110:37]
Unnamed Speaker
So most of the dress forms and stuff that we're designing on are actually modeled after like a 5 foot 8 or a 5 foot 9 body. Because there's like this assumption that there will be, they will be fitted on models, you know, that will do like a Runway show or something. So. Yeah. And then if we go back to that CDC study that says the average waist size in the US is actually 38 to 40 inches, then that actually kind of means that most people are actually closer to my proportions than I thought. Like, actually more people are petite plus than we're kind of led to believe. And, yeah, I mean, I think, like, a lot of people that got into fashion or, like, went to fashion school. Like, I got into it because I really love to dress up and play with my personal style. And as I got older and kind of, like, more firmly on the plus side of the size spectrum, I was feeling kind of sad and discouraged by my options when it came to fashion. So I'm like. I feel like I'm at the point now where there's, like, three mall stores or, like, brick and mortar stores that I can actually, like, shop from and reliably find something that fits me. And. And it's like, Wayne Bryant Torrid and Old Navy, which is just so discouraging. I mean, I know that that's kind of lucky because there's people who can't even find stuff at those brands that fit. But, you know, it's like, I can't just walk into a store and try stuff on and kind of play in the way that I used to when I was smaller in my 20s. And so I was kind of like, well, I want to explore my own personal style a little bit more. It turns out that actually most people. People or not most people, but, like, the average is a lot closer to my own size than I've been led to believe. So, like, why don't I just embrace that and design for myself and grade across a petite plus spectrum and just kind of see what I come up with? So that's. That's where I'm at. That's kind of how I settled on petite plus.
- [112:29]
Ruby
There's also.
- [112:29]
Unnamed Speaker
I mean, even among plus sizes, there's hardly anything for petites. Like, even if I do go to, like, land Bryant or Torrid, it's like, stuff is always way too long if I can even find anything that I like. But it's like, yeah, things are always too long. There's always this assumption, sort of, that bigger people must also be tall.
- [112:48]
Amanda
Yeah, I mean, it's true. I mean, I've seen it, like, when, you know, like I said, when we've gotten, like, the grading or samples, I'm like, what? Just because someone's waist is bigger doesn't mean they're a foot taller, you know? Yeah. I mean, I just think, like, we have a long way to go in terms of making fashion accessible to everyone, and it's even more complicated than like, we need larger sizes. We also need clothes for people who are taller, people who are shorter, people who have short torsos, long torsos, bigger boobs, smaller boobs. Like, we need totally. We need adaptability, right? Like, for people with mobility issues, etc. So it's like the fact, something I think about all the time is, you know, I mean, you and I were talking about this last week. You go to the mall right? Now it seems as if every store has the same stuff, and none of it's very appealing. But it also, like, if. It would be hard to know what store you were in if some. If, like, someone took away all the signs, right? Because it just all looks the same. And it's just so interesting to me that we have this industry that is just serving us all the same stuff when there are actually all these other things that they could be doing to actually make money, right? Because they're only serving, like, this small group of people and they're not even doing a great job there, right? But, like, they're. Everyone's just like, chasing the same, perhaps mostly imaginary shopper. I mean, at this point, like you said, like, you know, the average height for people assigned female at birth is smaller than we thought. Right? So I just. I just. Or smaller than we were told. I would say. I'm not surprised to hear that people are more like 5, 4. Just saying. So I am actually, like, I think it's awesome that you are leaning into this niche that isn't really served. And just in my. If I put on my, like, I'm a business coach cap, I. That's the advice I give everybody. Like, you need to really be doing something, something very specific. Because otherwise, like, everybody's kind of doing the same thing out there. I see a lot of conversation happening on Reddit and in other groups about how basically, like, a lot of the patterns that are available out there, whether they are for knitting, crochet, or sewing, are kind of doing the same thing over and over again. Like, here's another boxy crop top, or what have you. I'm sure you've seen those, right? And the conversation is like, why is everybody doing the same thing? Why isn't there greater variety? So from my perspective, I'm like, what you're doing is super smart, right? I mean, not only are you making clothes for yourself, but like, you're all these people who are like, yeah, thanks for making yet another boxy crop top. That will not be a crop top on me because I'm five foot tall, or that doesn't go up to my real size or what have you. Like you're actually doing something that is like, you know, serving more people. Do you think that more indie pattern designers should go that route as well?
- [115:48]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, you know, I, I really do think that it would be wise for folks to niche. I mean, do do some research, you know, look at data, figure out like what makes sense. Like, you know, I think, you know, you do want to make sure that you will have like a critical mass, I guess, of, of customers to support you. But said it's like, you know, how many, how many patterns do you need to sell to like make your company viable, right? It's not like you are shein and you need to sell like a billion garments every like, yeah, five minutes or something, right? Like you might just need a, you know, a solid customer base of like 500 or a thousand people who will reliably buy every pattern you release. And that actually might be fine. You know, it might even be fewer than that. It might be like 300 people and that still might be fine. So I think it's really smart to focus on a niche and kind of build credibility and build trust with a subset of people. I think if everyone's always designing for the same sort of presumed average, like you said, it's like we're just leaving the same people out over and over again. And it creates this illusion that the people sort of on the fringes of those average size charts. It's like somehow their bodies are wrong or they're undeserving of clothes that fit, which is frankly untrue. I actually just saw a really, really sweet movie last week that I wanted to shout out because I'm sure a lot of close worst listeners would really enjoy it. It was called Empire Waste and it just came out, but it's about, it's a fictional movie, but it's just this very sweet story about a plus size young like high school plus size designer who doesn't feel worthy of like wearing her own designs. But then she starts making clothes for her classmates who have like different body types and you know, like folks with disabilities. There's like one girl who's a wheelchair user, there's like her trans friend and she kind of discovers like how empowering it can be for other people to have clothes that fit them. And like through that she starts to feel, feel like more comfortable designing for herself than kind of like owning her, her skill set and like letting it actually benefit herself. And it was just, it was just a really sweet story. I Feel like it really spoke to this, this concept of just like there's so many people who fashion is not serving and like, what can we do about it? So I thought that was just really sweet. And I know that there's plenty of groups of people who feel like they can never find stuff in their size, like people who are very tall or you know, people who are wheelchair users. I know there was a recent collaboration with Simplicity by a group called Sewn Adaptive that actually did release some sewing patterns, like, specifically designed for people in wheelchairs, which was really cool. Also, like extra petite, like you know, below 5 foot tall or like 4 foot 11. There is a company in the UK called Kamaya Dewey which is making fashion for little people, which is really, really cool. I think, you know, focusing on like trans masc or trans femme bodies. There was a company called Both and that recently announced their closing, which is very sad. And they were, they were designing a lot of very cool, sort of like gender fluid designs. But I did see on their Instagram that they just mentioned something about potentially making their pattern patterns available.
- [119:12]
Amanda
Oh, that's great.
- [119:13]
Unnamed Speaker
So that would be really cool because I know like the fit people just like loved the fit of their garments. So that would be really awesome if they, if they do make those patterns available. But yeah, people with larger busts. Smaller busts. My. A friend of mine, Lindsay, who goes by Sew Busty on Instagram, is going to be releasing some patterns soon for bras that are like a little bit for like a larger, for larger busts. So that is very exciting. But yeah, there's definitely demand for that for sure.
- [119:47]
Amanda
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that if you are a person who has been interested in designing patterns or already does and you feel that you are not being served by the existing options out there, start with you. Because I guarantee there are other people who like share, share your concerns, your size, whatever it is, who are also feeling left out. And so I love, I love that's Ruby that you're like, I'm making patterns for petite plus people. I mean that's, that's like. And that happens to be you as well. And I think that's a great way to start. I think that we tend to be like, oh, well, I shouldn't think of myself in this situation. And that's how you end up making patterns that don't even fit you, but fit someone else. Right? And I think like you are not alone. And I think that sometimes, sometimes I mean, I know this like what we are served constantly as what is the standard goal body for all of us or whatever. We internalize that, and we assume that we are the only person who is somehow not meeting that criteria and that we're the problem, rather than maybe what we're being offered being the problem. Do you have anything else you'd like to add for people who are maybe gonna try sewing now?
- [121:03]
Ruby
Yeah, I think, you know, I think starting with, like, commercial or indie sewing patterns can be a great place to start because it does sort of eliminate that first step of, like, figuring out what shape. What shapes things need to be. But once you've made a few projects, you may want to learn how to design your own sewing patterns or get better at troubleshooting the fit. Because oftentimes when you sew from commercial patterns or indie patterns, you'll run into the same issues that you run into with Ready to Wear, with things like not fitting. Like, they're often not designed for, like, your specific proportions in mind. So, you know, if you want to start off with patterns that maybe have a looser fit or something that's, like, a little more forgiving, where it doesn't need to be, like, perfectly tailored to you, and then over time, you know, start to learn more about refit, about fit, and how to get things to be tailored specifically to your body. I think, you know, I think that can be a skill that gets, like, folded in a little bit later once you've kind of got the basics of sewing down.
- [122:03]
Amanda
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, don't be afraid to try new things, but also, like, set yourself up by. For success by working your way there. It's like, yes. Like, you know, for all of you knitters, like, you're not gonna sit down and be like, I'm gonna do this intarsia cable knit sweater right out of the gate. Right? You're gonna make a scarf, right? And I think. I think they're like, that's the thing is, like, you. It's already, like, there's so much, like, technique to learn and confidence. Which is not to say because I hate. And I was telling Ruby about this earlier where I'll see conversations on Reddit where people. I literally saw this thread. It haunts me a year later where someone was like, you know, maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I really hate when people who are new to, like, sewing or a craft are encouraged to try different, difficult or new things because they're just gonna mess it up, and it instills them with false confidence. And I. And people were like, yeah, I agree. And I was like, oh, My God, guys. Let people fly too close to the sun sometimes. You know, I put together a whole two day event with a live episode, having never done any of that before in my entire life. And it worked out and I learned a lot along the way. Let people, if they want. If the first thing I want to do is make a button button up, go for it.
- [123:13]
Ruby
Totally. But totally, yeah.
- [123:15]
Amanda
If you would prefer to maybe be a little less stressed, maybe start with just like a skirt, like an a line skirt with no zipper.
- [123:22]
Ruby
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. I think, I think that is great advice. Like, I never want to discourage anyone from like having a big grand vision. But I also, as someone who often goes for like the big thing right off the bat, I'm like, I will knit an intarsia cable knits, whether having totally never did anything before in my life. But like, it's very easy to get stuck. It's very easy to get frustrated and give up too quickly. And I often feel like that's. That's a lesson that I've been having to learn a lot in my life too, as I learned just like all kinds of random new skills. It's like, start small, start with what's achievable, start with what's right in front of you and like trust that you will work your way up.
- [123:57]
Amanda
Totally. I mean, I don't know. Have you ever watched the Bear?
- [124:00]
Ruby
I haven't, I haven't. Yeah.
- [124:02]
Amanda
Well, anyway, I've never watched worked in a restaurant other than as a server. So, you know, I don't know much about being a restaurant cook or chef. But one thing that I learned from the Bear is that when you go to culinary school, you spend a lot of your first weeks, maybe even months in culinary school just cutting vegetables all literally like all day, every day. And it's like tedious, but it's about like getting the skills down. And I don't think you need to go that hard.
- [124:26]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [124:27]
Amanda
With sewing where you only do the sew a pillowcase over and over again for like six months. But just know that like the process, the process is like part of the joy of it. And it gives you that chance to feel more confident and be ready to take on the intarsia cable knit sweater situation. Right.
- [124:45]
Ruby
Totally, totally.
- [124:51]
Amanda
Thanks so much to Ruby again for spending so much time with with us and sharing so much great information. I'll share all her info in the show notes so you can check her out. I feel like at this point all you longtime listeners already know Ruby and follow Ruby, but just in case, go give her a follow. Go see what she's doing. Support her work. I think she just brings so much incredible value to our community. All right, I'm going to wrap up this week's episode because it's already so long and and I'm getting a little tired. If you have more thoughts or advice to share about sewing, send it my way via email to amandaosehorse World. You can send an email, you can send an audio message that you record on your phone. Whatever works best for you. And we will resume this conversation about sewing when I am back from Japan at the end of November. Next week there will be one last episode before I leave, one last episode recorded here in Lancaster county, and that will be all about AI and the top talk that I gave for fashion changers last month. So just a little, little pivot, a little short episode about AI. And then for the next four weeks after that, you'll be hearing about what I'm up to in Japan, what I'm learning, and so much more. Thanks for listening to another episode of Clotheshorse. If you liked what you heard. If you like listening to Clotheshorse, please leave a rating or review. You know, subscribe on your favorite platform and most importantly, certainly tell your friends if you'd like to support my work financially, there are many ways you can do that. You can find that in the show notes. Please read the show notes. There's important links and stuff in there. Sometimes there's like seriously 100 links. I hope some of you are clicking on those. Anyway, you can find out how to support my work financially. You can find the link to the Clothes Horse Merch shop and so much more in the show notes. Lastly, but of course, never leastly, thanks to my other half, Dustin Travis White for our music and audio support. Support and I will see you all next week. Bye.