Billy Joel | Club Random

Summary

Podcast Summary: Club Random with Bill Maher – Episode Featuring Billy Joel

Release Date: July 21, 2025

In this engaging episode of Club Random with Bill Maher, host Howard Stern sits down with legendary musician Billy Joel for an in-depth conversation. The discussion spans a wide array of topics, including Joel's songwriting process, his views on music criticism, personal health challenges, and reflections on the evolution of the music industry. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of their hour-long dialogue.

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1. Introduction and Personal Health

The conversation kicks off with Howard Stern addressing Billy Joel’s health concerns, specifically his battle with Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus (NPH).

• Billy Joel (00:03:24): “It's used to be called water on the brain. Now it's called hydrocephalus. Normal pressure hydrocephalus.”

Howard inquires about the causes and current status of Joel's condition, emphasizing his well-being.

• Howard Stern (00:03:09): “You look good. You sound good.”
• Billy Joel (00:03:18): “My balance sucks. It's like being on a boat.”

Joel candidly discusses the challenges posed by NPH, including balance issues, highlighting the ongoing efforts to manage the condition.

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2. Songwriting and the Importance of Lyrics

A significant portion of the discussion delves into Billy Joel's approach to songwriting, particularly the balance between music and lyrics.

• Howard Stern (00:04:04): “Your lyrics standalone. I feel as poetry, even without the music, which I think is very rare in music.”
• Billy Joel (00:04:42): “Probably because I'm tuned into the music before I even understand what the lyrics are.”

Joel emphasizes that while he prioritizes melody and rhythm, he strives to infuse his lyrics with meaningful content. However, he acknowledges the difficulty in maintaining high lyrical standards consistently.

• Howard Stern (00:05:09): “I let all of it go. If I made that the bar, I would throw out 80% of my music.”

This exchange highlights the delicate interplay between musical composition and lyrical depth in Joel's work.

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3. Comparisons with The Beatles and Other Musicians

Howard Stern draws parallels between Billy Joel’s songwriting and that of John Lennon and other Beatles members, exploring the influence of The Beatles on Joel’s music.

• Howard Stern (00:06:09): “Eleanor Rigby, you know, that song didn't change, but it just got played so much.”
• Billy Joel (00:06:46): “It is how you listen to it. Not necessarily what the meaning of the lyrics are, but what the sound of the lyrics are.”

Joel reflects on how The Beatles, particularly Lennon, prioritized the sonic quality of lyrics over their literal meaning, a technique he appreciates and occasionally employs.

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4. Reflections on Music Formats and Streaming

The duo discusses the transition from traditional music formats to modern streaming services, with Joel expressing nostalgia for analog equipment.

• Billy Joel (00:13:45): “I don't know how to use it. So I try to find a radio station.”
• Howard Stern (00:15:02): “For someone who just wants exactly what I want, streaming is all about you like this. So you'll probably like this.”

Joel shares his challenges with adapting to digital formats, favoring radio and classical music stations to enjoy his preferred genres.

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5. The Challenge of Double Albums and Critical Reception

Howard and Joel touch upon the complexities of releasing double albums, referencing The Beatles' White Album and Joel’s own experiences.

• Billy Joel (00:18:00): “There was a lot of instrumental guitar playing that I didn't care about.”
• Howard Stern (00:19:10): “Revolution Number Nine. No one's going to defend that.”

Joel criticizes the White Album for its perceived lack of cohesion, using it as a point of contrast to his own meticulous approach to album creation.

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6. Personal Life and Relationships

The conversation shifts to Billy Joel’s personal life, particularly his relationships and how they influenced his music.

• Billy Joel (00:24:17): “We don't know about, which is I think I think they almost broke up a couple of times.”
• Howard Stern (00:46:10): “I had many letters from William Donahue, the head of the Catholic League. He literally has challenged me to a fight.”

Joel discusses maintaining amicable relationships with his exes, reflecting on the complexities of intertwining personal life with professional endeavors.

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7. Influence of Classical Music and Early Inspirations

Joel attributes part of his musical prowess to his upbringing and exposure to classical compositions.

• Billy Joel (00:76:42): “My mom and my dad used to listen to Gilbert, Sullivan, operetta.”
• Howard Stern (00:76:43): “Such a great songwriter.”

This segment underscores the foundational role that classical music played in shaping Joel’s sophisticated approach to songwriting.

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8. Modern Media, Social Issues, and Music Criticism

Howard Stern critiques modern media dynamics and societal trends, while Joel offers his perspective on the evolution of music criticism.

• Howard Stern (00:74:30): “Social media, the phone made all of that shit worse.”
• Billy Joel (00:74:31): “It might have even dumbed it down.”

Joel expresses concern over how digital platforms have transformed music consumption and critique, often diluting the appreciation of musical intricacies.

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9. Legacy and Continued Relevance

In the concluding part of their conversation, Stern lauds Joel’s enduring legacy and impact on music.

• Howard Stern (00:75:56): “You transcended it all. You gave us an incredible body of work.”
• Billy Joel (00:75:57): “Well, that's interesting, because I've never really done any kind of discussion about lyrics with my music.”

Despite not actively discussing his lyrics in the past, Joel acknowledges the depth of his songwriting, influenced by both personal experiences and classical traditions.

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Conclusion

This episode of Club Random with Bill Maher offers a profound glimpse into Billy Joel’s artistic mind and personal experiences. Howard Stern adeptly navigates through various facets of Joel's life, from health struggles and songwriting philosophies to reflections on the music industry's past and present. Listeners gain valuable insights into the making of some of Joel’s most beloved songs, his admiration for classical music, and his resilience in the face of personal challenges. The conversation not only celebrates Billy Joel's musical achievements but also humanizes the artist behind the timeless melodies.

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Notable Quotes:

• Billy Joel (00:03:24): “It's used to be called water on the brain. Now it's called hydrocephalus. Normal pressure hydrocephalus.”
• Howard Stern (00:04:04): “Your lyrics standalone. I feel as poetry, even without the music, which I think is very rare in music.”
• Billy Joel (00:06:46): “It is how you listen to it. Not necessarily what the meaning of the lyrics are, but what the sound of the lyrics are.”
• Billy Joel (00:24:17): “We don't know about, which is I think I think they almost broke up a couple of times.”
• Billy Joel (00:76:42): “My mom and my dad used to listen to Gilbert, Sullivan, operetta.”

These quotes encapsulate key moments of the discussion, highlighting Joel's perspectives on health, songwriting, personal relationships, and musical influences.

Transcript

[Howard Stern]

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[Billy Joel]

We're not non existent. We do exist.

[Howard Stern]

But we also were aware of our own lameness.

[Billy Joel]

Yes, we were very much aware of it.

[Howard Stern]

You don't think you've written a song as good as Wichita Lineman?

[Billy Joel]

No.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, stop it.

[Billy Joel]

Why didn't you? I tried. There's a song called Stop the Random.

[Howard Stern]

Hey Billy. Beautiful piano. Do you play?

[Billy Joel]

A little bit. A touch.

[Howard Stern]

Thank you for having me to your beautiful. Oh, this is not your home, right?

[Billy Joel]

This isn't my house.

[Howard Stern]

It's your. It's your manager's.

[Billy Joel]

He My lighting designer. My documentary producer.

[Howard Stern]

I know you've never had a problem with a manager. I saw the documentary. It's awesome. How fortuitous. On my network, hbo, I learned so much about you. First of all, your health. I mean, all your fans are wanting to know you had something. Did we fix it?

[Billy Joel]

Not fixed. It's. It's still being worked on.

[Howard Stern]

You look good. You sound good. You sound. You look and sound like you.

[Billy Joel]

I feel fine.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, okay.

[Billy Joel]

My balance sucks. It's like being on a boat.

[Howard Stern]

Why?

[Billy Joel]

That's. That's a good question. It's. It's used to be called water on the brain. Now it's called hydrocephalus. Normal pressure hydrocephalus.

[Howard Stern]

What causes that?

[Billy Joel]

Nobody knows. They don't know. What is it? Idiomatic. Idio. Idio. Something they. They don't really know what goes. I. I thought it must be from drinking, but.

[Howard Stern]

You don't drink?

[Billy Joel]

Not anymore. Yeah, I used to like a fish, but.

[Howard Stern]

You're good. You look good.

[Billy Joel]

I feel good.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

I think they keep referring to what I have as a brain disorder, so it sounds a lot worse than I'm. What I'm feeling, you know?

[Howard Stern]

Well, this really came about because, you know, I wrote you a little note and said that everybody, you know, the music is so awesome that nobody can kind of not recognize that. But I never thought you really got your due as a lyricist, because pop music, you know, the number of times you can find really great lyrics in pop music. Not that often. Yours standalone. I feel as poetry, even without the music, which I think is very rare in music. So can you enjoy a pop song if the lyrics are shit?

[Billy Joel]

Probably because I'm tuned into the music before I even understand what the lyrics are. That's the first thing I hear, is the rhythm, the melody, the chords, the production, the sound of it. And then I start to dig into what the lyrics are. If they're really cornball and awful and tacky. Probably not. But I let a lot of that go.

[Howard Stern]

I let all of it go. If I made that the bar, I would throw out 80% of my music.

[Billy Joel]

You're probably right.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, and that's okay. You know, I used to have this little argument with Clive Davis, who I know was instrumental in your career. Right? Yeah. Okay. And, you know, I mean, he was of the opinion that lyrics were more important than the music or as important. And I would say, well, there are certain people for whom lyrics are very important. They're called women. I mean, we all like lyrics, but I don't. I honestly don't. It doesn't have to be the case. And lots of people who we really love wrote some pretty horrible lyrics, including the Beatles, who we love more than anybody. Right. But some of their lyrics are just gobbledygook. I don't know what I am the walrus means, you know, I don't know what yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's Eye means a lot of.

[Billy Joel]

It is how you listen to it. Not necessarily what the meaning of the lyrics are, but what the sound of the lyrics are. And Lennon got that when he wrote I Am the Walrus. It was all about what it sounded like. Remember when we were kids listening to the Beatles? 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire. Wow. He's talking about Blackburn, Lancashire. Where the hell is that? It was so exotic sounding, like. Remember the song Norwegian Wood? She's a Norwegian. You know. What does that mean? It all was kind of very.

[Howard Stern]

But that song, I feel like has. I can kind of understand basically what it's about. It's sort of like a veiled telling of a groupie encounter.

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

You know. Okay. In an era where you couldn't be too explicit about it and probably where he didn't want his wife to know. I fell asleep in the bath. And, you know, I don't know what. I don't think wood was. Was he saying erection with wood? Was that.

[Billy Joel]

Is that now we can say that. But I think.

[Howard Stern]

No. But was wood a term back then for a hunt?

[Billy Joel]

I don't think so.

[Howard Stern]

I don't think so either. I mean, I just feel like some of these lyrics are daring you. They were so good at music. They were like, I fucking dare you to like this song.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. Lennon would do that. Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

And Courtney would write, hello, goodbye. Or, you know, I mean, get back. Did you watch the. Okay. We saw him writing it. Remember? Lennon was late one day and you saw him writing on a bass? And we saw how the lyrics evolved. I mean, there's only like four lyrics to the song. You know, it's just. It's just a sound collage. And it's like, yes, and it's okay.

[Billy Joel]

What's wrong with that?

[Howard Stern]

Nothing.

[Billy Joel]

I don't know and I don't care.

[Howard Stern]

I don't care either. But I've been listening to that song for 50 something years, and it's just a. Sounds great, right?

[Billy Joel]

Yes. It's about sound. That's what first hits us, is the sound of the lyrics, not the meaning.

[Howard Stern]

Okay. But I came here to say one thing, which is that you never do that. You either write a love song, which is awesome, lyrically poetic, stands alone without the music. Even if I had never heard the music or. When you're not writing a love song, it's about something. There's some nutrition to it. There's some meaning to it. I hope so. There is. And you say it eloquently. You don't just put it down. It's Just not like, oh, well, good enough. So, you know. I know in the documentary, you said. I said something like, I write the way I speak. You don't really believe that.

[Billy Joel]

I think so.

[Howard Stern]

You use.

[Billy Joel]

I use plain language. I don't. I don't get flowery.

[Howard Stern]

Yes, you do.

[Billy Joel]

You think so? I try not to.

[Howard Stern]

Okay. When I wore a younger man's clothes. Is a po. You could have said when I was.

[Billy Joel]

Younger, but it wouldn't have rhymed.

[Howard Stern]

But. And also when I wore younger man's clothes. That's between a poet and a schmuck. Wouldn't say it that way.

[Billy Joel]

As the smile ran away from his face. That's a poet.

[Howard Stern]

You know, I mean, you're. It's all through. I mean. Can you play A Little of Summer? Highland Falls. Do you remember the lyrics to that?

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, I hope so. You want me to sing?

[Howard Stern]

What?

[Billy Joel]

Should I. You want me to sing?

[Howard Stern]

No, no. What?

[Billy Joel]

They say that these are not the best of times.

[Howard Stern]

These are the only times we know.

[Billy Joel]

Times I've ever known.

[Howard Stern]

Right.

[Billy Joel]

It was the best of worlds. It was the worst of worlds.

[Howard Stern]

No.

[Billy Joel]

The Tale of Two Cities.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, is that where you get.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, I stole it.

[Howard Stern]

Okay.

[Billy Joel]

A little bit.

[Howard Stern]

Okay, so you're stealing from Dickens, the Beth.

[Billy Joel]

I'm trying to.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

But then in cathedrals of our. What's the next line? We.

[Billy Joel]

But we, I believe there is a time for meditation in cathedrals of our own.

[Howard Stern]

Okay, you got to admit, that's a little more sophisticated than Woolly Bully.

[Billy Joel]

It's a little artsy. Fartsy.

[Howard Stern]

Yes, it's. Okay. Well, for us English and history majors, we appreciated it in a very big way.

[Billy Joel]

Well, do you know that there's a song I wrote called you're My Home was on the Piano man album.

[Howard Stern]

I love it. It's on my top 50 of yours.

[Billy Joel]

Well, I, I. I got beat up for a lyric in that song. The lyric was, let's see. In my home, you're my castle. You're my cabin.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

And my instant pleasure dome. And. And there was a lot of instant pleasure. Dom, let them reach. I said, excuse me. That's from a Xanadu by William Golden. You know, I stole it from a poet.

[Howard Stern]

Kubla Khan. Yes, with historians on it.

[Billy Joel]

Kubla Klein. That's right.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, not everyone's going to appreciate all this, but I'm telling you, a lot of people do, and I think you are. I mean, I have heard you always say that. You write the music first.

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

Okay, so. And you still Write music?

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

Okay, so it's really the fact that it's the lyrics. You set such a high standard that I think you. That's probably what is holding you back and why you haven't released music in so long is because. How do I. It seems like that's the part you said at one point in the documentary even. You said you got tired of the tyranny of the rhyme. Yes. Okay. And you know what? I'll tell you a little story. I tried to write a song once. It's hard. It was during the pandemic and, like, we were all home and nothing to do, right? It's like, bored. When am I gonna. It's like, you know what? I wish that I could write a song. Maybe not the music, but I'm a. I'm a writer. Excuse me. I've written six books, the editorial every week. At the end of the show, I pretty much write that. I mean, with help. But that's my baby. And, like, you know, I 13 stand up special. I can write a song. No, no, I can't. I. I tried it sober. I tried it stoned. I tried it in a car. I tried it in a bar. I tried it on Mars. I tried it from afar. I couldn't do it. And, you know, it's just a special, different kind of skill than the one I have. And I even had a good premise. I had a title. It was called the World Makes Us Lie.

[Billy Joel]

Okay, that's a good premise.

[Howard Stern]

It is, because it was about someone in a relationship with someone who the world deemed age inappropriate. I don't know where I got the idea, but. And that could be more universal than that. The world does make us lie about things. And it's sometimes appropriate if you believe what they were saying in the tabloids, you deserve to be lied to.

[Billy Joel]

Just to get along, you've got to lie, right?

[Howard Stern]

So do you want to. If you're bored one day and you want to noodle with that, please don't. Because I couldn't. But I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it.

[Billy Joel]

It's hard. It is hard.

[Howard Stern]

It really is hard.

[Billy Joel]

It is.

[Howard Stern]

So when you listen to music. What? I was reading in the Times two days ago, they said the kids are back into buying DVDs because they got the memo that on digital, you don't ever really own anything that you think you own, but you really don't. So, like, DVDs. Yeah, that is not my format. But what do you do? You stream? Do you have an eight Track. Do you have a jukebox?

[Billy Joel]

I don't know how to even get to it anymore. I can't even turn my TV on without going through four or five different permutations.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, I know, but like, what do you. But when you listen to music, what are you listening on? What format?

[Billy Joel]

Well, first I gotta find the right medium to hear it. I don't always, you know, I hardly play vinyl anymore. Although I have a turntable, a really nice turntable. I got a nice stereo, Macintosh, you know, analog equipment. And I don't know how to use it. So I try to find a radio station. I like to listen to classical music. That's where exclusively, pretty much.

[Howard Stern]

You never want to hear Crimson and Clover. No, I do.

[Billy Joel]

My kids make me listen to pop music. They put on the pop station.

[Howard Stern]

Okay, which on my radio now. Yeah, in the car.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. So it's easier for me to find a radio station in the car than it is at home. But what I do to listen to classical music when I want to hear it, I put on the TV and I try to find this classical symphony station on. On TV so I can hear music. It's so ass backwards. That's how I hear music nowadays. I put the TV on. Weird.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, I. For me, the ipod, because I'm an anal retentive person, was like the perfect medium. And I still use it. It's not easy. You have to buy them on ebay. They don't make them anymore. Apple does. Apple definitely doesn't want you.

[Billy Joel]

It sounds like ancient technology.

[Howard Stern]

It is, but it's superior technology. And I'll tell you why. First of all, on the ipod, you know, first of all, it's all in your computer. And then you sync the ipod, do you remember that? When you sync it to you? So your playlists, all your music is there. So for someone who just wants exactly what I want, streaming is all about you like this. So you'll probably like this. And my answer is no, I won't. But more than that, it just, it clarifies to me how great an artist is or not. How many songs do I have of theirs I can do, I have eight or 100, you know, that to me is very valuable. It's one reason why I never understood why, like, you performed with Elton John, why would two guys who have each have so many songs that you could fill more than the concert? Why would you be. Why would you do it? Why would you join forces? You don't need to join forces. Like, I understand bands do that. Like they're you know, if you want to have Soul Asylum, go out with six pence none the richer. Makes total sense. No, no offense to the bands. It's no, no offense to only have four or five hits. But why you and Elton John?

[Billy Joel]

Well, that goes back a long ways. I actually met Elton in Amsterdam back in the early 70s. The Sonesta Hotel in Amsterdam. So Elton was at the hotel. Steve Cohen, who I was just talking about earlier, knew his manager John Reed and got us together. But we met and we were saying, you know, I hope you don't believe what they write about me and you with this rivalry. Because I don't have any rivalry towards you. I admire you. And we said someday maybe we should get together and play together and show people how we are different. Because there was a lot of comparisons going on. Neither of us were comfortable with that. So we talked about how do you overcome something like that. And there was an early idea, let's play together and let's see. Let people let the chips fall where they may. Let people decide for themselves.

[Howard Stern]

You really gave a shit that much that they said that? I mean, to the point where you would, didn't you go out? I think the DOC said you were 16 years on the road with him.

[Billy Joel]

Yes, on and off. Sixteen years together again.

[Howard Stern]

It's just crazy to me that somebody who could do more hits than we have time for of his own would then like do a show with another guy. It seems like it's an embarrassment of.

[Billy Joel]

Riches, but it was, but it, it was the fun part about it was I got to play his and he got to play my shit.

[Howard Stern]

What did you play of Vince?

[Billy Joel]

Oh, I played Yellow, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, which I loved. Love that I played your song. You know, a lot of his big hits I got to play and I didn't have to play the Billy Joel stuff, which was kind of a nice.

[Howard Stern]

Relief that I mean, double albums, remember? Yeah, very few good all the way through. I mean it's hard enough to make a single album good all the way through. You always did. Right. And we appreciate that name, like your top five, like maybe the only five good double albums. A Goodbye Yellow Brick Road is definitely one of them. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

[Billy Joel]

That was a good one.

[Howard Stern]

That's a amazing double album.

[Billy Joel]

Yes, that was a good album.

[Howard Stern]

The White Album.

[Billy Joel]

I'm not a big fan of the White Album.

[Howard Stern]

Like I say, not the White Album.

[Billy Joel]

But some people love it. I, I, I hear it as a collection of half assed songs that, that didn't finish writing because they were either too stoned or they didn't care anymore.

[Howard Stern]

Really?

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Like what?

[Billy Joel]

A lot of stuff on that album.

[Howard Stern]

Well, certainly Revolution Number nine. No one's going to defend that. Okay. But you know, it's a double album.

[Billy Joel]

I think they had fragments and they put them on the album. I think John was kind of disassociated somewhat at that point. I think Paul was carrying. Carry the weight at that point.

[Howard Stern]

Since before that.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Howard Stern]

You know, my theory with the Beatles has always been that what really broke them up was what they cared about more than anything else was a sides of singles of singles themselves. I mean, they were, after all, the only band ever who did not put the singles on the album until the very end. That's how much they valued the single as it.

[Billy Joel]

That was state of the art. There was no such thing as album artists. It was all about hit singles for them.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. And usually you would buy an album or often for the hit single which was on the album, and then the rest of the album didn't live up to the single. They didn't put the single on the album. And I think at a certain point, Lennon was not getting the A side. Imagine writing a song as great as.

[Billy Joel]

Strawberry Fields and it's not the hit.

[Howard Stern]

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[Billy Joel]

Well, I think I have a theory that we don't know about, which is I think they almost broke up a couple of times. I think just like a marriage, what band doesn't, Right? Right. But it was never talked about. It had to look smoothed over for the 10 years that they were, you know, famous. I think they almost broke up a few times and they had their ups and downs and sometimes they were More prolific, and sometimes they weren't. And I hear that in some of those things.

[Howard Stern]

Did your band ever want to be, like, named? Like, did they. Was there ever talk, like, why isn't it Billy Joel and the Tunemasters?

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, we. We talked about it.

[Howard Stern]

Billy Joel and Fire Dog.

[Billy Joel]

Exactly. We tried to come up with names, and they always. These hotbeat sounding names.

[Howard Stern]

Really?

[Billy Joel]

Like what Attila was. Billy BJ and the Affordables was like a joke. And we. We did it on a video with Rodney Dangerfield. What do you feel is that? Oh, tell her about it. Which is a song I don't like.

[Howard Stern]

Really?

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. I was trying to do a Motown song. I was trying to be. What's the name? Diana Ross and the Supremes.

[Howard Stern]

I opened for Frankie Valli as a comic in 1984, right after the 50s tribute album came out, which is an opus. It's an opus. It's not just a record. And I'm sure he somehow got the message to you. But if he didn't, I remember him saying how flattered and thrilled he was by what you did with that album.

[Billy Joel]

Oh, with Uptown Girl?

[Howard Stern]

Yes. They knew. I mean, you weren't hiding it. You were just.

[Billy Joel]

No, it was an homage.

[Howard Stern]

An homage. But, like, you know, a lot of your stuff is an homage to classical music. I feel like you were the one guy who, like, channeled classical music into pop music in such a way as an idiot like me who has no interest in classical music, loves.

[Billy Joel]

I take that as a compliment.

[Howard Stern]

It. You should.

[Billy Joel]

I was trying. I maybe unconsciously trying to do that because I hear it when I listen back to this stuff.

[Howard Stern]

So you don't think that White Album. Okay.

[Billy Joel]

Like, nah.

[Howard Stern]

What about Tommy?

[Billy Joel]

Nah.

[Howard Stern]

Double album.

[Billy Joel]

There was a lot. To me, it was a lot of filler on Tommy. It was a lot of instrumental guitar playing that I didn't care about. Double. A double album. Cream, Wheels of Fire.

[Howard Stern]

Not. Not good.

[Billy Joel]

I love that.

[Howard Stern]

You thought that was a great double album.

[Billy Joel]

I loved it. I loved.

[Howard Stern]

Everything on that White Room is on that.

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

I. I didn't. Crossroads Code. I'm. I'm. Well, I remember the titles. I obviously don't remember the music because I listened to them and then forgot them.

[Billy Joel]

Okay.

[Howard Stern]

So. But you know, you can't. You cannot. And people try to do it all the time. Like, tell a person, you should. Like this. They do here, listen. You should. No, I shouldn't. There's no shouldn't. It either hits me or it doesn't.

[Billy Joel]

I hate.

[Howard Stern]

You know.

[Billy Joel]

How about Axis Boldest Love? Jimi Hendrix.

[Howard Stern]

Hendrix never tickled my ear the way you do. I know he's awesome and great and the Fire and played sergeant Pepper the day it came out and great stuff. And 27 Club looks like a cool dude who was always having threesomes with a joint in his mouth. But I just never got into the music.

[Billy Joel]

See, I. I loved almost everything he ever did. It was as if he squeezed his entire life into three years. He only had a three year career and he really did. Hendrix.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 27.

[Billy Joel]

Died at 27. And he was just getting started.

[Howard Stern]

Right.

[Billy Joel]

But you look at this, the amount of work he was able to do. There was so much crammed into a short amount of time that I loved everything he did.

[Howard Stern]

But I mean, I saw in the doc you love Zeppelin as I do. I love Zeppelin, but that to me, you know, you sound nothing like Zeppelin in most of your Billy Joel music.

[Billy Joel]

I'm not Zeppelin.

[Howard Stern]

Maybe Italy.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, I tried to. It was a complete disaster.

[Howard Stern]

No, no, no. I think you found your niche. I think that's been decided. Why didn't you ever put out a double album?

[Billy Joel]

I. Well, I did, I think a double Greatest Hits. There was Greatest Hits Volume one and Volume two.

[Howard Stern]

But that's not like putting out a.

[Billy Joel]

That's not a real album. No, it's. It's collection.

[Howard Stern]

No, but you were wise to, because you're right, it's very hard. I mean, George Martin, he said exactly what you said. He's in the Beatles documentary and he says, I thought we should have just made one really good single album out.

[Billy Joel]

Of the White Owl.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, but you know what? I gotta tell you, you people in the business, you just have a different view. I'm just a. I'm just a young man in the 22nd row. You know, I see you as something more than sexual, more than just our Marilyn Monroe. And to us, like a lot of the things you guys do and talk about and think are important. Like George Martin I saw in the documentary want to do produce you. Which is a great compliment and makes perfect sense of all the people who he thinks he could follow the Beatles with. Okay, but then he wanted to fire your band. And I don't know what George Martin was hearing from your band, but I promise you, the regular guy did not notice that, did not think that band. Oh boy. Billy Joel's records. If only he'd fire that band and hire a good one. It's ridiculous.

[Billy Joel]

That was one of the most traumatic things I went through was deciding not to work with George Martin, who was One of my heroes. I thought he was an integral part of the Beatles. And I loved the Beatles more than anybody completely. And he was the fifth Beatle.

[Howard Stern]

Right.

[Billy Joel]

And wait, you're not gonna have George Martin produce you? Your big problem is production. You need a good producer. I know, but he wants to not use my band. And that's part of my sound, I thought.

[Howard Stern]

But also, when you talk about production, there's so much production. Like on Billy the Kid.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Dun, dun, Dun. I mean, Alan Copeland, I mean, so many of your songs. I'm telling you, it's an opus. It's not just a record. That's production from early on. You know, I mean, one of the things that blew my mind in this documentary was how big you were, how not big you were at a time when I thought you were huge. Like when I was in college that we're talking about Turnstiles was. You know, had enormous songs on it. Like people, I'm sure, think today.

[Billy Joel]

You were east coast, right?

[Howard Stern]

Yes, but, like New York State of Mind. Say goodbye to Hollywood. What else, James? Nobody talks about that. Awesome, angry young man.

[Billy Joel]

I was a regional artist for a long time.

[Howard Stern]

That's. Yeah. I mean, that really blew my mind that you were staying in Holiday Inns and scrounging for money at a time when I thought we all did in college. Because Piano man, that album had come out. Turnstile Streetlight Serenade. It was. I was still in college when the Big One came out. It was a low slog and the critics were not kind. I mean, do you think that. Did that affect you? Like you said, the thing with Elton John moved you to do something because they were mean and wrong.

[Billy Joel]

I thought they were wrong and they were wrong. Okay.

[Howard Stern]

Definitely. Time has proven. And it was easy to know at the time. Sometimes people are just wrong. But you know, again, the stupidest I think, thing in the world is a music review because you can't put in words whether I like this song or not.

[Billy Joel]

It's to hear. Well, talking about music. Who said that? It's like dancing about architecture. You say, what's the point?

[Howard Stern]

It's no point.

[Billy Joel]

No point. You can't get the sound from the story in a magazine, which I'm quoting myself.

[Howard Stern]

It's like writing a review of Mustard. You know, I either like it or I don't.

[Billy Joel]

It's all subjective and they're so.

[Howard Stern]

And there's such, you know, just looking for ways to be stupid and snobby. Another thing I learned in documentary that I had no knowledge of before was that you were, at one point appreciated, ironically. And I was like, you know what? I never felt. I was never aware of this. I never felt the need to distance myself from my appreciation of Billy Joel. Were you aware of that?

[Billy Joel]

I know that there was some speculation about what the songs were really about when I was just being literal. Like, Piano man was about a gay bar.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Billy Joel]

You know what I mean? It's like, I didn't. I didn't know that until recently. No.

[Howard Stern]

But I mean, they just. They just. I feel sometimes they. Something is so popular that then it. They decide it's corny, you know, Like, I saw it happen. A Stairway to Heaven, you know, one of the greatest songs ever. And the song didn't change, but it just got played so much.

[Billy Joel]

Do you. What is the. Is there a bustle in your hedgerow? Do you know what that means? Cause I don't get that one.

[Howard Stern]

Exactly. And that's what I appreciate about you. You never do that to me. You never make me go, what the fuck? You know? Could you replace the placeholder lyric with a real one? Would you put in the time to do that?

[Billy Joel]

Do you buy Davey in the Navy?

[Howard Stern]

Yes, totally.

[Billy Joel]

Okay. A lot of people don't. They go, that was a stretch. Well, what a cornball lyric that is. The guy's name was Davey and he was in the Navy.

[Howard Stern]

Even if it wasn't, it rhymes with Navy.

[Billy Joel]

Exactly. Thank you.

[Howard Stern]

And it makes sense again, it's couched in this song with. It has so much poetry in it and also moves people in a. In a very big way. I mean. But again, that song is kind of like the Stairway to Heaven song. It's just so fucking good and played so much that at some point, some group of people have to come along and go, oh, boy. Yeah, Stairway to Heaven, you know, I mean, I remember when Neil diamond suddenly sucked, and I was like, you know, I didn't get the memo. I like Neil diamond and Always will. And Barry Manilow, same thing. Like him. Don't need to be ironically in love.

[Billy Joel]

You're entitled to like what you want.

[Howard Stern]

Especially when it's good.

[Billy Joel]

Well, I have to disagree with you, Piano Man. I don't think it's that good a song, even though it's.

[Howard Stern]

I know. Okay. I don't care.

[Billy Joel]

Okay.

[Howard Stern]

No, I know. It's literally, as I can say, you know, I don't care if you don't like it. And I appreciate you bearing with us who love it, to play it all the time when I'm sure you're Look, I got bored telling the same jokes when I'm. Oh, you did? For 43 years I was on the road as a stand up. I just stopped doing it. Just. That's part of what. Yeah, I've told this joke a hundred times. And I know when I go, ba, ba ba ba ba ba ba ba, they go mad with laughter.

[Billy Joel]

Watch this.

[Howard Stern]

And if I go, ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba, it won't get any laughter. So I like hit the pedal and make the hamster dance. And, you know, I feel like a hack sometimes.

[Billy Joel]

It's showbiz, but.

[Howard Stern]

Okay, I got a great question for you. So when you were the piano man, like making them forget about their troubles for a while, you must have been playing certain songs.

[Billy Joel]

I was just kind of this sound coming out of the corner of the room for the most part until I started to sing something on the mic. And it looked like sometimes that annoyed people. They didn't want to hear a singer. They just wanted some background music.

[Howard Stern]

I got something for you. When I was 12, I sent away. I bet you we listened to the same WABC cousin Brucey radio when we were a kid. Because that was Long island in New Jersey.

[Billy Joel]

Wmca. Good guys.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, good guys. And then cousin Brucey on ABC. I sent away for this when I was 12. The top 100 hits of 1968. You're bowled over by it.

[Billy Joel]

Am I supposed to know?

[Howard Stern]

No, I'm just saying I still have it. Why aren't you glad I. Now I can tell you what the top 100 hits of 1968 are.

[Billy Joel]

Go ahead, let me know.

[Howard Stern]

Right, See, now you. Now you're glad I saved it. Number 1. Hey Jude Biggie. 2. Young Girl by Gary Puckett. Very inappropriate today.

[Billy Joel]

Like he couldn't. Absolutely.

[Howard Stern]

Just the fact that she's in his mind and his love for her is way out of line. Yeah, not good. Number three. I hope you love this song as much as I do. People gotta be free. The Rascals.

[Billy Joel]

I love the Rascals.

[Howard Stern]

That song also was a giant. Right. You remember how big a hit that was?

[Billy Joel]

I love the Young. They were. My favorite band at that time was the young rascals for Mrs. Robinson. Great song. Yeah, great song.

[Howard Stern]

No drummer.

[Billy Joel]

There's no drumming on that song.

[Howard Stern]

No drummer.

[Billy Joel]

What's driving the rhythm on that?

[Howard Stern]

The guitar. Well, the guitar is a percussive instrument.

[Billy Joel]

Was. That was a Roy Halley engineered.

[Howard Stern]

I think all Paul Simon stuff is right. Yeah, I remember that name. 5 Love is Blue. Paul Moriat didn't Like it then hasn't improved with age?

[Billy Joel]

No, not really.

[Howard Stern]

I love it that you're like a human jukebox. I could say any song and you could just start playing it.

[Billy Joel]

I don't know why I want to. I just. I'm driven to it.

[Howard Stern]

No, but the fact that you can do that, it can so quickly translate from your ears to your fingers.

[Billy Joel]

That's my life.

[Howard Stern]

No, it's amazing. All right, I'm gonna give you one more. Oh, MacArthur Park.

[Billy Joel]

Jimmy Webb, who's a friend of mine.

[Howard Stern]

But isn't that a great song?

[Billy Joel]

It's a great song. The lyrics get poked fun at a lot. Someone left the cake out in the well.

[Howard Stern]

Okay. I've been listening to it forever. You're right. And never really comics made jokes about that. You know, it's just a cake, pal. You know, Carol Leaf used to say, it's just. Yeah. Because if people don't know, the lyric is, somebody left the cake out in the rain. I don't think I can take it. It took so long to bake it. I'll never have this recipe again. I was playing this for a much younger person, and she immediately understood. She said, of course. I get that. It's. The metaphor is the cake is a relationship, and you fucked it up. You left it out in the. Somebody left it out in the rain. That's suspicious. Somebody. I don't know who fucked this relationship up, but somebody left the cake out in the rain. I'm not pointing any fingers. And I'll never have this recipe again. I'll never find a songwriter.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

That's what it is. But what's wrong with it is in the middle section, which is. It's almost like. I would. Wouldn't even say it's a B section because it's almost like a whole different song. You know, the.

[Billy Joel]

Went away. It went away to a whole other thing. Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

And then it came back with an instrumental, like bumping. And then back to the. Yes, but the middle was so a lot of moods. Okay. It contradicts what he's saying about the cake. He's saying, there will be another one. I'll have another dream and someone will bring it.

[Billy Joel]

Well, you just said, I'll never have that recipe again.

[Howard Stern]

And you. Again. You never do that. You never make me go. That doesn't make sense.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. But if I could write a song as good as Wichita Lineman that Jimmy Webb also wrote, that sounds, I'd be a very happy man.

[Howard Stern]

That's in here somewhere. Wichita lineman.

[Billy Joel]

Wichita lineman 68.

[Howard Stern]

Yes. I was looking at it here somewhere recent. I saw it. I can't. I'm not gonna look it up.

[Billy Joel]

Gorgeous song.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. I mean, you don't think you've written a song as good as Wichita Lineman?

[Billy Joel]

No.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, stop it.

[Billy Joel]

I tried. There's a song called Stop in Nevada.

[Howard Stern]

I was trying to write Blood Stop in Nevada.

[Billy Joel]

I was trying to write Wichita Lineman. I was thinking Midwestern guy climbing a telephone pole with the barren fields of Kansas. And, you know, how do you evoke that? How do I. How do I write that?

[Howard Stern]

What do you want to. You know, your songs are about something like, you know, you could have written. When you. When you start a song with somebody's name like Anthony works in the shop. You got the guy saving his money. Saving his money for someday. See, that's poetic. Not for. It's someday. Using someday to evoke the thought of it someday as a specific holiday savings. Money for someday. Right. Yeah. So. Okay. But that song gets at something. It's very McCartney in the sense of he did it often. He would just take a name and imagine a life.

[Billy Joel]

Working class stuff.

[Howard Stern]

Eleanor Rigby, you know, Lady Madonna, just Jojo. Who are these people? We don't know.

[Billy Joel]

You know the story of that song moving out. Why it is what it is now. It started out as something else. I had a different melody, a completely different first I wrote. I write the music first. The. What I was writing was somebody else's song. It was a Neil Siddhartka song. So I show it to the band, the band goes, that sucks. That's why. Because it's a Neil Sadaka song. Oh, you mean I have to write a whole other.

[Howard Stern]

That still sounds like the song to me.

[Billy Joel]

It's. This rhythm is the same, the pattern is the same.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, there's only so many notes. There's some. Some songs are going to.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, but you want them to be.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, and they are. I. I never heard that from that song.

[Billy Joel]

I had to rework the whole thing and. And then it became nothing works in the grocery store because I don't want to have to write a whole other bunch of lyrics. Yeah, I wrote all the lyrics. That was such a pain in the ass. I gotta change it now. No, keep the lyrics and rewrite the music. So it was one of those.

[Howard Stern]

Listen, I like to look good, but I wouldn't say I'm a fashion guy exactly. I basically want my clothes to look right and feel right.

[Billy Joel]

And.

[Howard Stern]

You know what's hard to find these days? A T shirt that fits like it was Made for normal men, not fitness influencers or guys on TikTok who look like they're on one kale chip away from disappearing. That's why I like True Classic. I gotta say, it's a T shirt that actually fits like it was made for a human body, not a cardboard cutout of one. They're tailored in the right spots and relaxed exactly where you want them. True Classic isn't trying to be some overpriced designer brand that makes you feel out of place. And it's not fashion garbage that disintegrates in the wash or ends up in trash heaps. It's real affordable, built to last, and built to actually give back, too. No bunching, no stiff collars, no bs. Just a clean, solid fit that makes you look like you made a little effort to look good, even if you really didn't. Grab these things at Target, Costco, or go to trueclassic.com random true classic for guys who want to look good without trying too hard or at all.

[C]

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[Howard Stern]

But it's about something, you know, I mean, it's not just. I mean, Eleanor Rigby. That's about something. Loneliness. And it's. That's a haunting. That's a great lyric.

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

But Desmond, you know, these are just like, I can imagine I'm this other person. Whereas your thing is, is, you know, I mean, I would say that song fits into your like, sub genre of your sly commentary on the disintegrating American dream. Allentown. You know, Moving out is one of those songs. You have a number of them, I think.

[Billy Joel]

Well, you're picking up on something that I. That's what I like about reading your book. I'm tipping over sacred cows all my life. That's what I like to do.

[Howard Stern]

I like to do that Catholic girl song.

[Billy Joel]

You had to. It had to be done.

[Howard Stern]

I. But it's a. It did have to be done. But I was surprised to realize watching the doc that it was that controversial in the 70s.

[Billy Joel]

Oh, yeah.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, I guess it. Look, I've had many letters from William Donahue, the head of the Catholic League. He literally has challenged me to a fight. Really? Like two 60 something year old men in the parking lot with our short sleeves rolled up. Really. But that's how the Catholic church feels about me. So I. But they were. And it's such a clever, energetic. Oh, it's just great. You know, and it's funny. And it's one of yours that's like in triplets, right? Which is to me a comedy rhythm like Captain Jack is in triplets. And it's like, see, comedy is always threes, like ba, ba, ba, ba. And then the thing doesn't fit. That takes you and every triplet in Captain Jack. It's almost like a. You know, you're in the. You're on the. Your street clothes from your head down to your toes, but so your finger's gonna pick your nose, you know, like every. And your father's in the swimming pool like every trip. It's almost. You know what I'm saying?

[Billy Joel]

When's the shoe gonna drop? Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

Well, that's interesting. You know, and the ironic thing about only the good die young is that in all honesty, the Catholic girls were the easiest one. They were the, you know, the least pure of all the young girls were the Catholic girls. Everybody knew that. They were the easy girls.

[Howard Stern]

Really?

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

I did not avail myself and I was raised Catholic to either this knowledge or these women. That was the way. It was on Long Island, I think.

[Billy Joel]

So that was the. That was the way.

[Howard Stern]

And they were attracted to you because you were not because you were forbidden fruit.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, I think so.

[Howard Stern]

As a Jewish.

[Billy Joel]

I didn't even have Jewish upbringing. I just. My family was Jews.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, same thing with my mother's Jewish heritage. But I was never in a temple and neither was she.

[Billy Joel]

But that would make you a Jew.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, that's what they say. But you know what? I don't like when people say something that is an opinion and a religion is just an opinion. Don't tell me what it is. Like, that's just that, first of all, that comes from Roman law. We're not going by Roman law anymore. Yes, in some ways we are. Yes, we are going backwards in some ways.

[Billy Joel]

You think it's settled.

[Howard Stern]

But that's another thing I learned in the doc about you. You're German. This explains so much. Because, like, who are the great composers? All Germans, I guess the Russians. But, like, who dominated? First Bach, 17th century. Then Mozart in the 18th century was the man. Then it was Beethoven, Schubert. It's a German thing.

[Billy Joel]

Wagner.

[Howard Stern]

It makes. Yes, it makes sense that you. That there's something in the Teutonic blood.

[Billy Joel]

But I'm not Teutonic.

[Howard Stern]

Well, that means German, doesn't it?

[Billy Joel]

Yes, it does. Geographically. Yeah, but my family were Jews.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, but you were still German Jews.

[Billy Joel]

And they were more German than they were Jews in their minds.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, the seat of antisemitism before Hitler was not Germany, it was France. Yeah, the Dreyfus affair.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. You know, and Spain.

[Howard Stern]

Spain everywhere. It's amazing the way the one thing the two political sides can agree on is hating.

[Billy Joel]

Everybody hates Jews.

[Howard Stern]

It's like, what can bring us together?

[Billy Joel]

Well, I just.

[Howard Stern]

Jews.

[Billy Joel]

They quoted me. I don't remember what it was about. Oh, there's an Israeli magazine called the Forward. You ever read the Forward? And they quoted me as saying, no matter what, I'm always a Jew because I wore the Jewish star, the yellow star. And my point was, it's not just. I'm saying that people who think you're Jewish say, he's a Jew. No matter what you do, you're always going to be a Jew. You can't not be a Jew if you were Jewish. I think that's what you're saying.

[Howard Stern]

So again, back to the lyrics. Like, all those dudes, they never had to write lyrics, right? Bach never wrote a lyric.

[Billy Joel]

No.

[Howard Stern]

So he didn't have that burden. And, well, Mozart wrote operas, right? Did he write lyrics?

[Billy Joel]

Mozart wrote operas. He had Duponte, who was his lyricist.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, so he didn't write lyrics.

[Billy Joel]

He didn't write libretto. He wrote music. Beethoven stole from the famous Goethe, who wrote the song Ode to Joy. Freude schoene gotter Funken rapper Alth Elysium. He borrowed from famous poet Goethe.

[Howard Stern]

So did you ever think about, like, okay, Black Rack had Hal David.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

And your boy Elton had Bernie.

[Billy Joel]

Bernie Taupin.

[Howard Stern]

Did you ever think, oh, why don't I get me a. I thought about it. You made the right decision because you would have. You would have been disappointed. You would have.

[Billy Joel]

Maybe.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, look, I love Elton John, but some of those lyrics. Rocket Man. If somebody handed you Rocket Man. Come on, man. You would not do it. You would not.

[Billy Joel]

That shows me what a great music writer Exactly. Elton was.

[Howard Stern]

And stupid lyrics. I mean, come on. He's an astronaut, but his wife is packing his bag. And all the science. I don't understand.

[Billy Joel]

But the music makes you get it.

[Howard Stern]

But you know what? I'll tell you something about astronauts. They do know the science. They really do. They just don't send people up there. Like, it's not the Katy Perry girls trip, you know, it's NASA anyway. But that is part of the magic.

[Billy Joel]

Of music though, I think, because there is a code within. The music itself has nothing to do with the words that takes you to this place. If it's done right.

[Howard Stern]

Of course. Exactly. Why do you think we like you? That's why we like you. You do, you perform that. And it's. There is something about music that just is, you know, primus inter pares among the arts. Because it just gets to people like on a very deep level. And it can be intellectual, but it just goes right to the solar plexus or whatever.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. And I think there's a mistake to try to over intellectualize it. Music. To me, what I love about classical music is its purity. There's no lyrics in a lot of symphonic music and a lot of classical music. It's just music. And it can take me away somewhere else completely. I get stoned from it. I. I literally get carried away listening to beautiful music. So I don't know why that is.

[Howard Stern]

No, I. I'm so. Do I. There are. There are some songs that. Very few, but I could think of one for sure that make me cry.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah. Samuel Barber's Adagio.

[Howard Stern]

I'm not a crier.

[Billy Joel]

You know the Adagio.

[Howard Stern]

Know that's your, your, your, your function is take that and make it pop music for me.

[Billy Joel]

Okay.

[Howard Stern]

Cuz I'm just. Again, how about. Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

It'S almost like a medieval thing, but music does that.

[Howard Stern]

It also makes me think of the Civil War. Good.

[Billy Joel]

That's good. Stephen Foster.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. You know what I mean? You could play that behind Ken Burns showing.

[Billy Joel]

Yes. He was an influence on me. State and Foster. Oh, and all those. Those Civil War era songs. They're stirring. They are.

[Howard Stern]

Well, again, this documentary made me realize that like so many songs that I of yours that I had been listening to for so long and appreciate the lyrics on one level because they are universal. And then this put color to this black and white drawing of your life that I had had really like. Yes. Because so many of your songs are very literal as to what was going on in your life. Whoever put the documentary together had a very Easy job matching the song to what was being said because, you know, say goodbye to Hollywood. That's when Billy was leaving Hollywood. You know, it's like, who can't put that? You know, they did a good job. New York State of mind. I'm back. I'm loving New York Story Piano Man. I'm. I'm working in a piano bar. You know, it's. It's. It's pretty straightforward.

[Billy Joel]

Well, I. I got advice when I was starting out was write what you know. And that's how I wrote and when I wrote it.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, I mean, I'm very literal.

[Billy Joel]

I get angry with myself and.

[Howard Stern]

And I was so interested in the documentary to learn about the whole relationship with you and your first wife and how many of the songs were about her. That's something I really didn't understand. And the complex situation of having your wife then be your manager, like, now I understand she's always a woman. Because in the song that I've been listening to all these years and loving all these years, you know, she steals like a thief.

[Billy Joel]

What's up with this chick?

[Howard Stern]

And she's casually cruel, and she'll make you bleed and then laugh about it. I'm like, such a fun girl. But he loves her. And then I realized it's. That's her. How she is with. In business. On your behalf.

[Billy Joel]

She's always a woman to you. Hello. Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Well, we don't know this. What am I, Kreskin? I don't know.

[Billy Joel]

No, I know. But people used to tear that apart. Well, how can he like this person? Because they're so horrible. I said no. Well, it's duality.

[Howard Stern]

But even if you don't know the backstory, it does make sense in a way, because I've had that kind of relationship.

[Billy Joel]

Thank you.

[Howard Stern]

Where. Just put it this way. I thought this woman was horrible. And yet if you asked me to explain to somebody why I couldn't do it, so I would, you know, I think I would. Just the essence of the song. So I just blame myself. If you don't get it, I'm kind of talking to myself. You don't get it. Look. Look in the mirror. That's kind of, you know that you wrote three she songs. Of course. You must know this. Three that start with she's got a way. She's got a way.

[Billy Joel]

She's always a woman. She's right on time.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

Do you like She's Right on Time?

[Howard Stern]

Love it.

[Billy Joel]

I think that's one of my favorite songs I wrote.

[Howard Stern]

Love it. That and Laura are very. Laura's to me the most Beatlesque.

[Billy Joel]

Absolutely.

[Howard Stern]

Isn't that a beetle? It's like. And I say that as the ultimate compliment.

[Billy Joel]

I was channeling John Lennon, but all like.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah, that part. What am I supposed to do? That sounds so Lenin y. And then. But although the.

[Billy Joel]

Ah, yes.

[Howard Stern]

It's. It's awesome.

[Billy Joel]

It was Beatlesque. I couldn't deny it.

[Howard Stern]

There could be no greater complimentary adjective than Beatlesque.

[Billy Joel]

I appreciate that. So that's what I was going for.

[Howard Stern]

And you got it.

[Billy Joel]

And I had to say, fucking.

[Howard Stern]

You know, I loved it.

[Billy Joel]

Feeling like it's time to drop the F bomb.

[Howard Stern]

That wasn't done a lot in those days.

[Billy Joel]

No, it's the only time I think I've ever done anything like that.

[Howard Stern]

Right. Well, no, I got a thumb and it's a son of a. Oh, well, that's light. That's.

[Billy Joel]

That's obscenity light.

[Howard Stern]

Okay. But even back then, that was a cop.

[Billy Joel]

True.

[Howard Stern]

That's on Piano Man.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Right. Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

That was not.

[Howard Stern]

Clearly we're talking mid-70s. They didn't. People didn't say son of a. On record.

[Billy Joel]

No. Back. That was shocking.

[Howard Stern]

Billy, why did you feel this need to work Blue.

[Billy Joel]

It worked.

[Howard Stern]

No, but. Well, yeah. Three she songs. Yeah. I mean, we have such a different view of, like, relationships, I think. And yet. I'm sorry. On the same page with you when you sing about how. Don't anybody tell me what to do. I mean, this come. This is a theme that comes up a lot in your songs and again makes you very lovable to a lot of people. You know, just do what you want. This is my life. Who can't relate to that? Some people probably. They don't. They don't have that gene like we do. Like, I don't want even, like, you know the one where you're driving the motorcycle in the rain. Like, I know it's stupid. You are probably right. But I still want to do it. Don't tell me what to do.

[Billy Joel]

That's. I used to get my back up about in the early days when I would read these negative reviews. Basically, they were saying, no, he shouldn't be doing that. He should be doing this. This is the right way that he should be doing it. And I was like, no, that's not the way I want to do it. That's not the story I want to tell. I don't want to tell your story. I want to tell my story.

[Howard Stern]

But it's curious to me that someone who has that gene gets married a Lot. See, like I never got married, so for me it makes sense. Don't tell me what to do. I find it irreconcilable, but maybe I understand.

[Billy Joel]

I do too.

[Howard Stern]

But I know you said in a documentary you don't want to die alone, but don't you always die alone? Isn't that the one thing? We always.

[Billy Joel]

Just can't take him with you.

[Howard Stern]

You can't. I mean, in India, sometimes the widow throws herself on the funeral pyre, right? I mean, I don't think a lot in.

[Billy Joel]

I think I just have this uncontrollable adoration of women.

[Howard Stern]

All your exes like you. I mean, the fact that your first wife is a big part of the documentary says a lot.

[Billy Joel]

You know, we're still friends.

[Howard Stern]

Being friends with exes, I think says a lot about a man. And they all seem to like you and there's no animosity and they have good things to say. That's.

[Billy Joel]

I appreciate that too.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. Oh, I'm sure you do. You should. It's a, you know. And you know, I know the first one ended with that motorcycle crash.

[Billy Joel]

Well, it had been coming on for.

[Howard Stern]

A while, of course, but, you know, sometimes people do something subconsciously.

[Billy Joel]

Maybe so.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, my. I have a doctor friend, he's a, you know, not a MD, but a holistic doctor, also a shrink. And he said, he once said to me, I've seen people give themselves cancer to get out of a relationship.

[Billy Joel]

I wonder sometimes if I have a self destructive tendency. Because, you know the song the Entertainer?

[Howard Stern]

Of course.

[Billy Joel]

All right, well, that came out after Piano man was kind of a semi hit. Piano man was like a well known song.

[Howard Stern]

Yes.

[Billy Joel]

And the Entertainer was kind of a commentary on how they chopped it up and they edited it in the music business. And you got a bean. Another can of beans, Another can of beans. So here I was, things are going well. And it was almost as if I was saying, let me see if I can screw this up somehow. And it wasn't a good idea to release that song based on the music business response to it because they didn't like that. That was not a popular song with them. Oh, he had a hit and now he's bitching about it. That's how it was received. So I always wondered about something like that. Do I have that self destructive tendency?

[Howard Stern]

Well, you did try to. You almost died three times. There was the motorcycle crash, then there was like, well, you know what? Those early ones, I had the same, you know, I'm gonna kill myself when I was 19 years old. If I could have gotten laid once at Cornell, you probably would have been better off. Are you kidding? My depression would have lifted. I would not be suicidal. But, you know, there's that era of your life where you do kind of have this. You have to get over the idea of feeling sorry for yourself.

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

And that's what. You know, the one where you.

[Billy Joel]

That's a big one.

[Howard Stern]

You drank Lemon Pledge. I saw that in the documentary. That's what they said.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, it was Lemon Pledge. That's right. You remember that?

[Howard Stern]

It's hard to forget that Lemon Pledge. I mean, in your defense, lemon is a flavor.

[Billy Joel]

It would look tastier than the. Than bleach. There were two things in the closet. I said, I'll take the Lemon Pledge because it's lemon flavored. It'll be tastier.

[Howard Stern]

Wow.

[Billy Joel]

All I did was fart furniture polish and polished my mom's wooden chairs. I remember that.

[Howard Stern]

I feel like our generation so much more stoic. I mean, when you were playing Summer, Highland Falls, the end of the chorus is always. It's either sadness or euphoria, which I don't know if I completely relate to that. I mean, I certainly remember sadness. Euphoria.

[Billy Joel]

They used to call it manic depression. And that's how I was feeling at the time. That's that age, like you said, 19 to early 20s. You got your head so far up your ass, you can't see straight. And you have to get out of yourself. You have to start empathizing with the rest of the world.

[Howard Stern]

You also had family stuff. I mean, that's really a big part of the first one. Your father.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Or lack of. You know, I didn't know all that. You know, you kind of like, he left, and then even when you found him, it was not. What is the lesson there? That, like, even when you're related to somebody, they don't have to be kind. They don't have to be good to you. They don't have to care.

[Billy Joel]

What is it? Don't meet your heroes because they're gonna let you down somehow when it's your own kin.

[Howard Stern]

You know what? My mother told me a story. My mother did not have a father. He left as soon as she was born. This is in the 20s. And so she was raised by my grandmother. And the immediate, you know, the larger family, the grandparents. But she. I remember she told me she was in World War II, as both our fathers were. Nurse. And I forget how it came about, but her father, she was going to meet her father. For the first time. And she was in her army uniform and she was super excited. She didn't tell me a lot of stories like this, but she met him and she just said it wasn't like he was mean or anything. He just was like cold. You know, it was like he just had to be there. He didn't really want to be there. And it just. You could tell, it just was devastating.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Almost worse than if he had hit her or something.

[Billy Joel]

So there's. It's one of those things I don't know if you really ever get over.

[Howard Stern]

No, not family stuff.

[Billy Joel]

I mean, I realize, you know the song Vienna? I didn't realize until recently it was me writing about me.

[Howard Stern]

Yes.

[Billy Joel]

I. I just thought it was about my friends. I was seeing my friends drive themselves crazy trying to live the American dream, and I thought I was talking about them. And I, I watched the Doc and I went, wait a minute, this is me looking for my dad. That's what this is about. And I'm still trying to work all that out.

[Howard Stern]

All those songs you have about going home to your family, Right? Like, you cannot understand how interchangeable. Like, kid, people of our age who grew up, like in the suburbs of New York, our lives were, you know. I bet you you grew up in an all white town.

[Billy Joel]

Yep, all white.

[Howard Stern]

So did I. Rivervale, New Jersey. And, you know, this is supposedly the liberal right. East, northeast, New York City, but that's where people were in the 50s and 60s. But all those songs, like, it's like, wow, this guy's so in my head. You know, the, the, you know. Well, our fathers fought the second World War. My father fought. It's like, spent our weekends on the Jersey. We spent our weekends on the Jersey shore. Or the one about the suburban showdown again, what an opus. Like, I had that feeling when I lived in LA and I was going home for Thanksgiving or something. And it was like going east on a plane, drinking all that free champagne. I know it's supposed to be fun, but I wish I took my gun. And then, you know, sitting around with the neighbors there and the TV on and the kitchen chairs, all those details were exactly my life.

[Billy Joel]

Well, it was what I knew. But you remember when we were growing up, the prevailing literature at the time was trashing the suburban culture. So we were kind of made to feel non existent, almost useless. Vanilla. What's the point of existence? It was, we're just existentialists. I remember feeling insignificant because of that. And I was, I was trying to present. Hey, I'm here. We're here, you know, there is. We have something to discuss. We have something to talk about. We're not non existent.

[Howard Stern]

We do exist, but we also were aware of our own lameness.

[Billy Joel]

Yes, we were very much aware of it, I think.

[Howard Stern]

I mean, I look were beaten over.

[Billy Joel]

The head with it.

[Howard Stern]

I never liked living in New York City because I grew up in the suburbs. I like LA because it's the suburbs.

[Billy Joel]

There's no there there.

[Howard Stern]

I like a lawn and a single family, even if it's a shitty one. Our house is very small. Probably like your. Maybe like a Levittown.

[Billy Joel]

Levittown house. Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Levitt house. Yeah. Yeah. Houses were so much smaller.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah, but you had a quarter acre and it was your property.

[Howard Stern]

But it was yours. Yeah, it was enough.

[Billy Joel]

It's my whole universe.

[Howard Stern]

But, you know, you really write about the stultifyingness of the suburbs. I mean, that Captain Jack is really about that moving out. So many of these songs evoke that era, that post World War II generation that was just very different. And it's like I think of Angry Young man, which is one of my faves of all.

[Billy Joel]

I figured that I.

[Howard Stern]

It's an amazing record. So prescient, so fitting of this time. I don't know if it was. It was ever a single. No.

[Billy Joel]

No.

[Howard Stern]

Okay.

[Billy Joel]

I figured you liked that song.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, I mean, I'm not gonna recite the lyrics. I'll just do the B section.

[Billy Joel]

I believe I passed the age of.

[Howard Stern]

Consciousness and righteous rage I found out that just surviving is a noble fight I once had once believed in causes cause of 2 I had my pointless point of view and life went on no matter who was wrong or right. I feel like that is the message of the age. Even though some people will hear that and say, look at these two assholes, Boomers, you know? You know, who aren't just like, Trump's the worst. Okay. But even if we admit that this is also true, and that's. I feel like that is a theme, you know, in your last album, Shades of Gray. Shades of Gray, that. That's sort of that theme. It's even in Saigon, you know, like in the middle of the fight, who was wrong or right.

[Billy Joel]

Right.

[Howard Stern]

You still feel that way?

[Billy Joel]

Yes.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

And you don't care what they say about you. The woke or.

[Billy Joel]

At this point. No, I'm. Yeah, I'm inured to it, but I. There was always this. I don't know if it's rabbinical or what, but it was. On the other hand, I'm always trying to find out the other point of view. What's, you know, not my point of view, Somebody else's point of view. Okay. I like to understand why they think that way.

[Howard Stern]

It's so difficult in this day and age because everybody is in.

[Billy Joel]

It's almost impossible.

[Howard Stern]

It is almost impossible. I mean, it is. What I am always trying to do on my show is, look, this is one safe space for everybody. And I will take the heat from either. Both sides. I mean, I do feel like the left, who ironically I'm more actually aligned with, is more snippy about it and has a worse attitude about it and makes me viscerally not like them more sometimes. But that's what I'm trying to do.

[Billy Joel]

And I get that from your books.

[Howard Stern]

Yes.

[Billy Joel]

You do this.

[Howard Stern]

Of course.

[Billy Joel]

Like, who the hell are you? Throw stones that. In that direction. You know, look at me. That kind of thing.

[Howard Stern]

Well, listen, I. I'm really wanted to say to you, among other things, you know, I appreciate you as much for the records you did not put out as for the ones you did, because very few had it in them to go. You know what? If I can't be at the tippity top as I always was, I'm not going to put my fans through the downside of my career. Not that there hasn't been some fine stuff from lots of artists who were heroes of my youth, but in general, it's harder to do. And you did that and you know, and then when you did finally put out a record, it was absolutely as good as the stuff in the. It fits seamlessly. If I play Turn the Lights Back on, it fits seamlessly in between any two of the other ones that I love. That's as good as you can do. Good. But, you know, there's only one record in 32 years, so that's like a.

[Billy Joel]

I didn't write that one. Oh, well, I. I might have changed a lyric here and there. I like the song.

[Howard Stern]

It sounds like one of yours.

[Billy Joel]

Yes. Maybe that's what I liked about it. It felt familiar to me because those. I'd had those thoughts for a long time, but I just. I enjoyed listening to that song. I said, yeah, I. I could have sung that.

[Howard Stern]

Well, it definitely works on two levels. Obviously it's about some romantic relationship, but it also. We can't help but think a guy who hasn't put out a record in this long when he's saying, can I turn the lights back on?

[Billy Joel]

Lights back on.

[Howard Stern]

It has to be about that too.

[Billy Joel]

Yeah.

[Howard Stern]

Are we wrong?

[Billy Joel]

No, I think there's There's a couple of different levels to it, and that's one of them.

[Howard Stern]

I like songs like that that, like, you know, some of it is just. Eagles did it a lot, you know, like, just the philosophy. And then it goes into a story, you know, like, new kid in town first. It's like, you know, there's talk on the street, you know, there's a new kid in town. And then it goes into, like, this whole section about the music and, I mean, talking about a girl and, you know, and it does kind of comment on each other. I feel like that's what's kind of the thing that's going on.

[Billy Joel]

I think Don Henley does that very well. I think I admire him as a songwriter.

[Howard Stern]

Oh, such a great songwriter.

[Billy Joel]

And. And people have this deep animosity towards the Eagles. They've been so successful.

[Howard Stern]

That's my Stairway to Heaven theory. Exactly.

[Billy Joel]

What is that?

[Howard Stern]

It's people wanting to be snobby. It's people wanting to feel like they're. It's. It's. Why does clums have a velvet rope? Because everything has to be about, I'm cooler than you. So you're over here. You're over here with Neil diamond and the Eagles and Billy Joel or whoever. It's like, shut up, you asshole.

[Billy Joel]

I thought we were past that era.

[Howard Stern]

Why did you get that impression? You thought humans, like, got evolved to a greater.

[Billy Joel]

I thought we got smarter.

[Howard Stern]

Social media, the phone made all of that shit worse. All of that shit got worse because you could do it all.

[Billy Joel]

It dumbed it down.

[Howard Stern]

What?

[Billy Joel]

It might have even dumbed it down.

[Howard Stern]

Well, it's dumbed down, but it's also. You can be a prick anonymously, which allows people who want to be a prick and people. Right. I mean, people say things all the time that they would never say if they had to say it to your face.

[Billy Joel]

It just always surprises me how people. They express this hatred. It's like you hate a musician because he wrote something.

[Howard Stern]

When I was first on Twitter, it's like 2011, and I haven't been on it in a very long time to say, well, once in a while I say something. But. But it was like the very beginning, and I answered somebody once. You know, you can answer people, and she was like, just really tearing me into asshole about religion. And I said something back, like, very short. And then like, enjoy your myth. And she wrote back and immediately was just like, can we be friends? You know, like, okay. The second I responded, all this hatred of me went away, because now I'm saying, oh, here you're inside the velvet rope. So that's what that's all about. But, you know, you transcended it all. You know, you gave us an incredible body of work that really. I mean, you're not just a great composer for my era, any era.

[Billy Joel]

Well, that's interesting, because I've never really done any kind of discussion about lyrics with my music. It's always been about my piano playing, my singing, performing music, but not lyrics. So that's interesting to me. I'm glad you dug out that part.

[Howard Stern]

Yes. And I do think, just like I have my theory about the Beatles with the singles, I have my theory about you and its lyrics. It's like that was. You said it. The tyranny of the rhyme to come up with the music. You could. You know, that's probably more fun and easy.

[Billy Joel]

But I also was influenced by people that we're talking about over 150 years ago. You've heard of Gilbert and Sullivan?

[Howard Stern]

Of course.

[Billy Joel]

My mom and my dad used to listen to Gilbert, Sullivan, operetta. These are operas. And they were very clever lyrics. I mean, you know, very sarcastic English.

[Howard Stern]

Yes.

[Billy Joel]

You know, 19th century topics. But they were so brilliantly written. I admired that kind of lyric. That's what I was kind of going for when I was writing my lyrics.

[Howard Stern]

You got there. But, you know, it's almost like something that good. It's like a lot of things where after a certain age, I mean, there are no old physicists. Like, Einstein did all his work when he was, like, in his young 20s.

[Billy Joel]

Even as a teenager.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. Athletes. Nobody expects them to work past 40. Maybe you put out albums from basically early 70s to early 90s. 20 years.

[Billy Joel]

That's enough a score.

[Howard Stern]

They don't use that word anymore, but it's in The Gettysburg Address.

[Billy Joel]

20 years.

[Howard Stern]

Yeah. He said four score and seven years ago. He could have said 87 years. Just like you could have said a younger man instead of. Yeah, but that's between a poet and not a poet. But, you know, to all those people who are always, you know, Billy Joel shouldn't. Why doesn't he put something out? You know what he gave you a lot. And, you know, get off his case. You're like the Fran Leibowitz of music. You know, like, why don't you write another book? Maybe they know something you don't. You know what he gave a lot. Wanted to, like, get every last speck of. Just grind you into dust and drive him back to drinking to get one. You know what he's given a lot. And his last one, even, was great. And I guess what I'm saying is, don't take any shit from anybody, Bill.

[Billy Joel]

Thank you. I appreciate it. No one's ever told me that they should.

[Howard Stern]

Because you earned it.

[Billy Joel]

Thank you.

[Howard Stern]

Okay. I appreciate this so much. This special is awesome. It's on HBO, which makes me proud, my network of 22 years. And I hope everybody sees it, because your life is worthy of all the accolades you're getting.

[Billy Joel]

Club.

[Howard Stern]

If anyone should get a victory laugh at you.

[Billy Joel]

Thanks.

[Howard Stern]

All right, pal. Very good.