Don Lemon | Club Random

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher: Don Lemon Episode Summary

Release Date: March 16, 2025
Host: Bill Maher
Guest: Don Lemon
Location: Club Random

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Club Random with Bill Maher, the acclaimed host engages in an in-depth conversation with CNN's prominent anchor, Don Lemon. The session, recorded at the enigmatic Club Random, delves into a myriad of topics ranging from media integrity and political polarization to personal experiences and societal issues.

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Media and Trust in Journalism

Bill Maher opens the discussion by questioning the current state of traditional media, expressing skepticism about its ability to deliver unbiased truth:

Bill Maher [09:19]: "Because I never feel like I'm hearing the full story... So to get like a full story, I can never get it just from one source."

Don Lemon counters by emphasizing the shift from cable news to digital platforms, highlighting his transition to a YouTube-based show for greater authenticity:

Don Lemon [05:40]: "With my show, the Don Lemon Show on YouTube, I don't have to pretend, and I don't have to... I do my show."

The conversation underscores a growing distrust in legacy media, with both hosts advocating for more transparent and multifaceted information sources.

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Political Polarization and the MAGA Movement

A significant portion of the episode tackles the divisive nature of the MAGA movement and its impact on American politics. Bill Maher criticizes the movement's reliance on misinformation and inherent racism:

Bill Maher [56:09]: "His superpower is that he lies so much and gets so much so off that it's so baked in the cake that he's not held to those standards."

Don Lemon agrees, attributing the movement's strength to its leader's ability to shape reality, while also expressing concern over the rationality of its followers:

Don Lemon [62:09]: "I think it's based on lies and racism. And that doesn't mean I hate those people. I actually kind of feel sorry for them."

Their dialogue highlights the challenges faced by mainstream politics in bridging the ideological divide exacerbated by charismatic yet controversial figures.

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Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI)

The hosts delve into the complex topic of DEI, debating its true meaning and implementation. Bill Maher questions the efficacy of DEI initiatives, suggesting they may lead to preferential treatment:

Bill Maher [44:31]: "Equity is basically quotas."

In contrast, Don Lemon defends DEI, clarifying its purpose to broaden candidate pools rather than undermine meritocracy:

Don Lemon [44:55]: "DEI is about making sure that disabled people have a ramp somewhere at work so that they get to work... expanding the pool."

This section reveals the nuanced perspectives on DEI, reflecting broader societal debates on equality and representation.

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Personal Experiences and Harassment

Don Lemon shares personal anecdotes about experiencing harassment in professional settings, shedding light on the often-unspoken challenges faced by public figures:

Don Lemon [16:15]: "I've been harassed by women and men in the work. And some things are not even."

Bill Maher empathizes, discussing boundaries and appropriate responses to such behavior:

Bill Maher [18:30]: "As long as you can offend them off easily."

Their exchange underscores the pervasive issue of workplace harassment and the differing approaches to addressing it.

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Evolution of Media Consumption

The conversation shifts to the transformation of media consumption habits, with both hosts reflecting on the decline of linear television in favor of digital platforms:

Don Lemon [35:48]: "They have to have an informed electorate. I do a live 10 o'clock show on YouTube... I can see the audience."

Bill Maher contrasts this with traditional TV's limitations, advocating for more interactive and real-time engagement:

Bill Maher [62:24]: "But you're not pretending to be a newspaper. It's an opinion show. It's a debate show."

This segment highlights the adaptability required by media personalities to stay relevant in an evolving digital landscape.

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Concluding Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Don Lemon and Bill Maher reflect on the importance of honest dialogue and the role of media in fostering informed citizenship. They acknowledge the challenges of maintaining integrity in a polarized environment but remain optimistic about finding common ground through open conversations.

Don Lemon [93:02]: "People should be more honest in their conversations and because in conversations people say dumb things... I think that linear television would not be quite in the position that it is now with people who are unsubscribing or people who are cutting the cord if they actually had more interesting people on."

Bill Maher [97:51]: "As I said, you can't buy me. That's the catchword."

Their mutual respect and candid exchange exemplify the essence of Club Random, where unexpected guests can freely explore diverse viewpoints.

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Notable Quotes

• Bill Maher [09:19]: "Because I never feel like I'm hearing the full story..."
• Don Lemon [05:40]: "With my show, the Don Lemon Show on YouTube, I don't have to pretend..."
• Bill Maher [56:09]: "His superpower is that he lies so much..."
• Don Lemon [62:09]: "I think it's based on lies and racism..."
• Bill Maher [44:31]: "Equity is basically quotas."
• Don Lemon [44:55]: "DEI is about making sure that disabled people have a ramp..."
• Don Lemon [35:48]: "They have to have an informed electorate..."
• Bill Maher [97:51]: "As I said, you can't buy me."

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Key Takeaways

• Media Integrity: Both hosts emphasize the need for diverse information sources to combat media bias.
• Political Polarization: The MAGA movement's impact on American society and politics is critically examined.
• DEI Debate: A balanced discussion on the true purpose and challenges of DEI initiatives.
• Personal Stories: Insights into the personal challenges faced by public figures, particularly regarding harassment.
• Media Evolution: The shift from traditional television to interactive digital platforms is highlighted as a necessity for modern media personalities.

This episode serves as a thought-provoking exploration of contemporary issues, presented through the unique lens of two influential media figures.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Bill Maher]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Bill Maher]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Bill Maher]

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[Don Lemon]

But is that something that's admirable?

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Don Lemon]

Should we celebrate that?

[Bill Maher]

I'm not celebrating it. Don. It's time for our cooking segment. I don't know if you know this, but I make a moving omelet. I make a mean omelet. Club Random Don here.

[Don Lemon]

I'm here.

[Bill Maher]

Roll clove. Keep them waiting, Lemon. Keep them waiting.

[Don Lemon]

Try to intimidate them. Come in.

[Bill Maher]

What time is it?

[Don Lemon]

It's 5:30.

[Bill Maher]

This show is scheduled for exactly 5:30.

[Don Lemon]

It's good to see you. How you doing?

[Bill Maher]

I am never late and never have.

[Don Lemon]

Are you never late? You hate being late.

[Bill Maher]

And I find it rude when people are.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And I really don't like it when people go. They're late all the time. They go, you know. I'm not a rude person. Well, my thing is you are what you do. If you're late all the time. You are a rude person.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

But no. 5:30, you were here early. I appreciate that. It's a work day for me.

[Don Lemon]

I know when you're doing.

[Bill Maher]

This is my, this is my pleasure time.

[Don Lemon]

So it's busy. It's got to be crazy for you.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. You know, it's like, hey, I've been doing it forever. It's. I'm a person of habit. I like a ritual. I like that. Monday, I do this. Tuesday, I do this. Wednesday, we do this part of the show. Thursday, Friday, we. It was game day. You know, I like that. So it doesn't bother me. But, you know, whenever there's a change in administration, people always say, you know, what are you gonna do? Bush is gone. Is there. Yeah. I think there'll be comedy. Even when the Democrats in office, there's always a lot of comedy. There's always. I've never, I never get the newspaper and there's nothing in it. Like it's blank that day.

[Don Lemon]

There are slow news days, but there's always something. Not these days, but then that, it's. That's a good challenge, though, whenever there's a slow news day. I find that sometimes I do my best and.

[Bill Maher]

But have you seen one since January 20th? I have not.

[Don Lemon]

No, I have not.

[Bill Maher]

This. There's always too much. I can't get it all in. And that way, just the things that would be headline, headline kind of making news or just. That's like the fifth or sixth story, you know, with, with the vibe change.

[Don Lemon]

It's, it's, it's a lot. I thought it was a lot in 2016 and then in 2020 during the election, but this is a lot. I mean, the first 40 days is like the first 40 years.

[Bill Maher]

And the odd thing is it's actually, you know, in many ways worse. I mean, there are things that I like even less than the first time, and there are some things that I'm not going to judge yet and might even be positive. But mostly I'm not thrilled with a lot of things like switching sides in the Cold War, you know, little things like that. And yet my mood is so much better because I've been through it once.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And I think I, you know, I said that in the lead up to when I was like, you know, he got the White House, he's not going to get my mind this time. And I think everybody, kind of, at least everybody I talk to kind of feels the same way.

[Don Lemon]

I always say you can be informed without being inundated and it's good for me that, you know, I'm not on cable news anymore because I would just. I'd have to absorb all of it 24 7, because, you know, what do you. They're always in touch, as you know. You have a show. What do you want to do with this? This guest is on, this canceled, blah, blah, blah. So you were sort of in it, but now I find that I can go in and out of it whenever I want. And I figure I read the headlines, I read the papers. You do your YouTube thing, and I do my show.

[Bill Maher]

So if you have the same kind of problem.

[Don Lemon]

Yes and no. So with the YouTube show. With my show, the Don Lemon show on YouTube, I don't have to. I don't have to pretend, and I don't have to.

[Bill Maher]

Don, we know you're gay. What? You don't have to pretend. Not here. We love her.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, you know, Bill, you're outing me. I don't have to pretend that I don't have to give false equivalents. I don't have to invite someone on to lie. I don't have to have an election denier on. I don't have to. If I want to, I do. And it's all my decision. So I've chosen not to, in many ways, insult the viewer's intelligence by just having someone on purposely. Who's going to lie or just to fight.

[Bill Maher]

I. I get that. It's also a very dangerous thing, I feel, to think you always know what. What's a lie and what isn't. And. And. And. And to kind of like summarily think that only one side is lying. One side is lying more than the other. That's true. But it is a slippery slope. Yeah, it's a set. You.

[Don Lemon]

I don't believe that's just one side lies. But, I mean, I think you should have people on who can tell the story on the other side. But I don't have to have. I don't have to book people just to fight. I hate that.

[Bill Maher]

I do, too.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I stopped doing that. I mean, that was. The old show. Politically Incorrect was much more of a. Well, people like fighting.

[Don Lemon]

Well, it wasn't just because I actually got. I thought, excuse me. I got more out of that show than most news shows on television back then. But there were fights, but I thought they were organic. Cable news is not booking organic fights anymore. Organic guests. They're booking people to come on and yell at each other because they're desperate for ratings.

[Bill Maher]

So you think your old network does that?

[Don Lemon]

I think they all. I don't want to specifically. I think they all do. I think not. They all do.

[Bill Maher]

I think if MSNBC doesn't. Because you don't see people on there who disagree.

[Don Lemon]

I see many of them do. Some of them do. Fox does it. I believe they invite a Democrat on or someone left leaning just to yell at them. And I do see. Yeah, yeah, I do see some cable shows doing that, which is for me, at the end of the fight of the argument, I wonder, like, what did I get out of this? I usually don't get anything out of it. And I think people need to be informed more than ever now.

[Bill Maher]

I know you think like broadcast TV is dead. I think I heard you say that.

[Don Lemon]

No, I don't think broadcast TV is dead. I think it's on the decline. I don't think it has as much influence as it.

[Bill Maher]

Did you say that when you used to be on it?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, yeah, no, I was on broadcast TV for a while. But do you mean cable? You mean just in general?

[Bill Maher]

Well, I mean Broadway, broadcast cable. I mean, most people have basic. I mean most people have CNN in their house. I mean, pretty, pretty primitive TV setup you have if you don't have cnn. But like, let's say legacy media, I mean legacy media, the polling from people has it in the toilet. You know, it's down there with Congress that they don't trust it.

[Don Lemon]

I've been really surprised by. Yes, you're right about that. They don't trust it because they don't trust the corporate influence, you know, and look, in order to stay afloat, they need corporations to own them. Right. But they just don't. Like, I think they, I think people believe, and rightfully so, that the corporation is influencing.

[Bill Maher]

That's part of it. But that's, that's.

[Don Lemon]

Well, it is, but also they're not holding people to account and also that they are. They're just not doing a very good job at. Well, at some things.

[Bill Maher]

You know why I don't trust it?

[Don Lemon]

Why?

[Bill Maher]

Because I never feel like I'm hearing the full story. I'm hearing narrative, I'm hearing what, what the. Whatever outlet I'm listening to. They are asking themselves first not what's true. They're asking themselves, what does this audience want to hear? How does this audience want me to interpret this story? And I'm going to give them that. So to get like a full story, I can never get it just from one source. And what I always try to do on real time is be that source, be that Place where if you watch the full show, you get the full story. Now, of course, what people do in this media atmosphere that we're in is many people don't watch the full show, they see clips. So you can carve up any one of my hour long shows and just feed. And a lot of people only see it this way. Just feed them the part that they either will make them love me or hate me.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. They can feed to both sides something that they think is right. They just feed it and then something they think is left. Yeah, but that, that's always been the case, don't you think?

[Bill Maher]

Not this bad. No, no, no. I.

[Don Lemon]

Don't you think this is worse now?

[Bill Maher]

Oh, way worse. I think the New York Times, just to take the most prime example, because it is the paper of record, blah, blah, blah. Not to me anymore. I mean, it used to be, I feel the editorial page was opinion. Yes, but not the front page. And now every page, that's just a change they made. Now part of that is because of Trump. It's very hard to be honest and true and not say he lied. Basically. Newspapers never used to say the President lied, even though presidents have always lied. But they just, basically just went out and said, because you can't, not because there he took it to such a different degree of lying that you just have to say, so that is true, he did lie. But it does lie about many things we saw. I mean, there was lots of crazy stats in the, in the speech he made last night, the fake State of the Union.

[Don Lemon]

It was the joint address to Congress. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, luckily I had a joint when I was watching it.

[Don Lemon]

Is it better to watch high?

[Bill Maher]

Everything's better high. Don't you get high.

[Don Lemon]

But can we get back to the New York Times? I don't disagree with you on some things about the New York Times, but I do believe it's still the paper of record. I used to compare. I used to read the New York Times and then the Washington Post. And the Washington Post I found was much more straightforward than the New York Times. I thought that the writing in the New York Times was much more interesting and flowery and perhaps that may have sort of influenced people. But then I read it and I said, you know what? After a while I said, this is a left, a more left leaning message than the Washington Post. But the Washington Post now I don't know what the fuck is going on with them and Jeff Bezos.

[Bill Maher]

Well, they just had a big.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Shift. I mean, they, they went super woke too. Like the New York Times. It's a generational thing. You know, a certain cadre of the.

[Don Lemon]

Washington Post went super woke.

[Bill Maher]

I got to give you my book that came out last year.

[Don Lemon]

I have it. I was on your show, remember? You gave me a copy of it.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, well, there's a. There's a really funny one in there about the story in the Washington Post. It was a Dave Weigel, I think is his name. He's one of the star reporters. I think he's somewhere else now. Very respected guy. And he tweeted something that was so benign, I think it was, all women are polar. You just have to find out whether it's bi or sexual. Oh, no. What? No, all.

[Don Lemon]

All women are bi. You just have to figure out if it's polar or sexual. Is that what happened? That makes more sense.

[Bill Maher]

I'm making.

[Don Lemon]

You're high.

[Bill Maher]

I'm high. Anyway, it was benign. I thought it was just somebody. It was just. It's just a joke, for Christ's sakes. Get over it. The insanity that went through the newsroom and we did the thing on it. It's in the book. It's. It's just hysterical. I mean, I hardly had to embellish it, but of course, who could resist at least making jokes about it? But, like, there was a reporter who was just, let shall we say, a lot, and she went apeshit about this. And of course, nothing can be done behind closed doors. Everything had to be done on Twitter. And so, you know, he was let go. And then somebody else joined the Twitter fight on his behalf. And that he was the person who had to be like. It was like the fact that this fucking kindergarten went apeshit over this silly little joke on Twitter. So, please, the question. Do you think they've changed? Yes, they have.

[Don Lemon]

Well, two things. I wouldn't know about what you're talking about. Joking is kind of my story. And. But this.

[Bill Maher]

Read the. Read the piece.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but I. I get it. But I mean, I'm talking about the content in the Post. I understand. I agree with you on the fallout. I think it's ridiculous. But on the contents, at least, the people who are writing for the New York, the Washington Post, I think that they are really good journalists and they tend not to be as biased or as left, but that there were some.

[Bill Maher]

For the New York Times, too.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but what you're talking about is ridiculous. And I think. Look, that's the reason I think that Democrats are in the place that they're in now is because of shit like that, of course. And because they get rid of their strongest allies for some stupid thing that no one is perfect. Look at Al Franken. It was the dumbest thing that I've ever seen. I had a really tough time. I'm in New York. I had a really tough time, like, you know, filling in the dot for Kristen Gillibrand because she did that. And she was such, you know, virtue signaling.

[Bill Maher]

Don, I'm sure if you had a nickel for every time someone's hand drifted down your waist when you were taking a picture with them, you'd be a very rich man. I'm just guessing.

[Don Lemon]

I would. I have been harassed by women and men in the work. And some things are not even. It's just. It's ridiculous. Now, look, tell us.

[Bill Maher]

I'm very interested.

[Don Lemon]

There are some things that.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no. I'm interested in this.

[Don Lemon]

There are some things that are really egregious, right? And that not. But not everything is Harvey Weinstein level.

[Bill Maher]

And so that's rape.

[Don Lemon]

And then some of the. Right. That's a whole different story. I'm not talking about that, and I'm not saying it makes it right. But I remember when I was in Atlanta and was in the cafeteria, commissary, whatever, at cnn. Cnn. And this woman, young lady, tweaked my nipples and said, oh, it's cold in here. And I said, okay. You realize if I did that, they'd be walking me out the door right now. But I didn't care. I didn't go to hr. I didn't say anything because I was just like, it's a double standard.

[Bill Maher]

Good for you.

[Don Lemon]

Good for you. And also. But I've never told this story as well. Someone who I worked with also harassed me at cnn, and I didn't. I never went to management. First of all, I was so naked.

[Bill Maher]

A man or a woman?

[Don Lemon]

A woman. And she knew I was gay. And it was just bizarre. She was going through a divorce. It was just weird. And I never went to management. First of all, I thought, like, okay, they may find a way to get rid of me, because if I tell this story, I don't know if they're gonna believe me or not. But then she was so mean to me after that, I was like, I should have told the story. But, yeah, I've been harassed by men and women.

[Bill Maher]

But when, like, what constituted this harassment? Like, what did physically, like, in the office, like, come in and twirl for me? Don?

[Don Lemon]

It wasn't a twirl for me, but it was not in the. But, yeah, it's all go that far.

[Bill Maher]

So you had to be with her in certain business occasions, but outside the office, like at a cocktail party, places like that. No, I know, because, like, in our business and media, there's a lot of cocktail parties. There's a lot of.

[Don Lemon]

A lot of cocktail parties. And remember, this was a while ago and there was not Uber, anything like that. And if you are in Atlanta, there are. Taxis aren't available. And so, you know, you say, hey, you know, I'm gonna. We've had a couple drinks and do you mind if I like, you know, or whatever? No, no, no. Don't go home. Stay in the guest room. That sort of thing. So.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, the guest room, yeah. Oh, you were at somebody staying at somebody's house, right? Well, I mean, look, let me go back to the cocktail party because. Because something very important about those kind of cocktail parties.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

They serve these garlicky hors d'oeuvres and people have the worst sort of breath. Usually unattractive, pudgy, doughy male reporters and they pin you to the wall and they're talking to you and their breath stinks. If someone was sexually harassing me with that breath, I would definitely go to hr, but if they did not have the garlicky breath, I would let the nipple tweaking go. That's just where I draw the line. That just shows that we're all individuals.

[Don Lemon]

We're all individuals and I'm an adult. And look, May, it's. I think it is different for men and women, you know, depending on the power structure and that sort of thing.

[Bill Maher]

I wish I had been harassed as much. Quite honestly, I think it's a. It's flattering, as long. As long as you can offend them off easily.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, I know as a man, I could say, no, I'm not interested, or just.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

But also as someone. As a. Look, I.

[Bill Maher]

As a.

[Don Lemon]

Someone who was molested as a child.

[Bill Maher]

You were?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Oh.

[Don Lemon]

So for me, it is a whole different thing. Of course, I know how to say.

[Bill Maher]

Must be very triggering.

[Don Lemon]

Well, yes and no, because, you know, because you know how to deal with it and you know what's really important or not and you know, like, who has the power? I figure as a man, I have the power to say, I don't want.

[Bill Maher]

To do this and you're bigger and stronger. Yes.

[Don Lemon]

I don't need to go to HR and earn your career. I just tell you I'm not interested in this. You were drunk, we had a couple drinks or whatever. Let's let it go. But Some people, they made a business out of it, quite frankly.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Whether it's, you know, who, whoever it is. But some people have. But in many ways, in many times. Most times it's legitimate, but there are times that it's not. I think it's a little bit.

[Bill Maher]

No, but I mean, look, I can't relate to that. I'm almost the opposite. I remember the first time I was lucky enough to say to my friend, what does it mean when a girl grabs your dick? You know, that to me was like, oh, I've really arrived.

[Don Lemon]

That happens.

[Bill Maher]

Because that's a very, I feel that's a very strong signal.

[Don Lemon]

Someone did that to me recently.

[Bill Maher]

A man or a woman?

[Don Lemon]

A man.

[Bill Maher]

Whose name is.

[Don Lemon]

I can't tell you.

[Bill Maher]

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[Don Lemon]

We were at a restaurant and they were drinking. They're like, oh my God, look at you, you've lost weight, you look so hot. And then they. And I was like, whoa. And there were people around me like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah, the guy was drunk and I just said, okay, he's drunk or whatever. Perhaps I should have said something, but I don't. I mean it happens a lot to men. More often to men, I think, than people realize.

[Bill Maher]

From your lips to God's ears. But you know, again, I pray for this to get to.

[Don Lemon]

Look, I'm going to say this because in this world of cancellation, I don't know, I'm not a woman. So I don't know how it feels to be a woman. And that happened, happens to a woman.

[Bill Maher]

I'm not a woman and I do know how it feels. Awful. Of course, how could it not?

[Don Lemon]

I know that especially I'm not going to speak for women in this situation. I can only.

[Bill Maher]

I will speak totally for women and it's just terrible. It's not hard to imagine because they are. I know, because we have to pretend differently with gender stuff these days that we're all kind of the same. We're not. They're smaller, generally weaker. Generally, I agree with you. This is not a criticism of. It's just science. It's just biology. And so you just feel the same way I would feel if a Six. If Reacher was trying to reach around to me, I would be like, oh, I'm powerless against this.

[Don Lemon]

That might be a different story for me. But no, I think we're saying. No, we're saying the same thing. I'm just saying I don't want to speak for women. I can't imagine how awful it is for a woman. I'm not. So. I'm not.

[Bill Maher]

It's terrible for a man too. I mean, look, look, they say that because of prison. Oh, I don't, I don't, I don't want to mess up the statistics, but if you asked the person in the street, you know, who do you think it's raped the most? Men or women? They would. And maybe it is women and Maybe it's by 10 to 1. I don't know.

[Don Lemon]

Women get raped the most.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, okay, but like because of prison.

[Don Lemon]

I believe in facts.

[Bill Maher]

I think. Yes, I do too. That's why I said I don't have them. But because of prison, like it's not as one sided as you think.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So it's not like men don't get raped. It's just. That's where it happens and why we allow that. I mean, what, you think we could control prison? You know, why, why is something like that such a. They just accept it, you know, like. Well, if you go in there, you're going to.

[Don Lemon]

You know, I think it probably happens. I think that's sort of. I think that's sort of a myth that people have. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in prison, but as often as it, you know, people would like to believe that it happened in prison. But also on the other end, it's men. Men are dogs. They're horny.

[Bill Maher]

Right. Yes. Some prison sex is certainly consensual.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. But I'm sure all of that happens. But I mean, it's a weird conversation we're having here, but I never thought I'd be talking to Bill Maher about.

[Bill Maher]

This is Don. This is. I play the long game. This is just my way of tweaking your nipples. But I'm just not. I'm just. I just do it verbally.

[Don Lemon]

No, we've seen Oz. You've seen Oz, right? On hbo.

[Bill Maher]

Oz scared the shit out of me.

[Don Lemon]

Why? Afraid someone Was going to prison. Rape you. You're not in prison.

[Bill Maher]

It was just as. No, I'm not. But it was just a scary show. It was. I mean, it was. People don't remember. This is HBO, like 20 years ago before streaming. And all his name is on J.K. simmons. No, J.K. simmons was the Nazi in prison.

[Don Lemon]

And the guy who's. Why can't I think of his name on Law and Order?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Him and that guy.

[Don Lemon]

That guy, he was the. He was the hobby.

[Bill Maher]

And he also does the commercial where he's face is always the bottom of a car getting beat up.

[Don Lemon]

No, that's the other guy.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, that's the other guy.

[Don Lemon]

That's the other guy who does the. The mayhem guy on the commercial. Yes, I'm talking about Chris, whatever his name is from.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, yes, Chris from. Right, I know. Maloney.

[Don Lemon]

Chris Maloney.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

Chris Maloney was the main character, right, Dean?

[Bill Maher]

The guy. Yeah, yeah. There was a show that, like so many HBO shows, spawned, you know, a lot of big talent.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, it was a good show, but Chris Maloney was already on Law and Order SVU and was very famous. I think this was sort of a side gig for him.

[Bill Maher]

But I'll tell you why it was scary, Don.

[Don Lemon]

Why?

[Bill Maher]

Because of course, they have to have a character through whom we can see ourselves as the regular person. So do you remember who were we all? We were Beecher. He was this guy who went to prison because he had a few too many drinks one night and hit a little girl with his car. Okay, so you can go to prison for that. That's manslaughter. Okay. But he's just like a regular, normal guy, never thought himself. So that's who we all. That's us. And so in the first episode, the Nazi, J.K. simmons, who. I still can't get past that when I see him, he is pretends to befriend Beecher and he says, you know, it's okay. Come in my cell, I'll protect you. And then, of course, cut to tattooing a swastika into his ass. Into Beecher's ass. So not good.

[Don Lemon]

And you paid more attention to that than I did. But go on.

[Bill Maher]

I did what?

[Don Lemon]

You paid more attention to that than I watched. I don't remember all those things. I just remember that there was a lot of sour.

[Bill Maher]

You've seen more men's asses than I have. But when I see.

[Don Lemon]

I'm not sure about that bill right now.

[Bill Maher]

I've seen none except mine. When I see a guy who's like, he burnt something with a match and he. So it was.

[Don Lemon]

He could.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, he tattooed a swastika into his ass cheek. So, yes, that did stay with me.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but it stayed with you.

[Bill Maher]

What, you were.

[Don Lemon]

You weren't worried someone was going to do that to you, right?

[Bill Maher]

No, it's not rational. But, you know.

[Don Lemon]

But I get it.

[Bill Maher]

We all worry about that. Look, do I think the comet is going to hit us in 2032? They say there's a 1 or 2% chance. I'm not worried about it. But it could happen. I mean, the comet could happen and somebody could frame me and I'm there with the swastika on my ass. It's not even the ass.

[Don Lemon]

Maybe I should light up a joint. Come here, Bill.

[Bill Maher]

Really?

[Don Lemon]

Joking. I'm talking about burning his swastika. It's a little slow.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, that's right.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

But anyway. Oh, there was something so important that I wanted to.

[Don Lemon]

You wanted to talk about. You were talking about the possibility of that happening in men and women.

[Bill Maher]

That was way off the.

[Don Lemon]

That was off the beaten path. This is crazy. I never thought I'd be having this conversation.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you know, that's the joy at all. But along with you, that's the joy of this podcast. It is all conversations you never thought you'd be having. Because in real life, do you plan your conversations? No. So, like, there's a mark. We're high fiving on this.

[Don Lemon]

No, I agree with that because that's that you're saying. My philosophy, that happens. And people, you know, often when you're just having a real conversation, you say things that are brilliant sometimes and you say things that are stupid and that's the whole point of a conversation. But somehow we.

[Bill Maher]

Me or in people in general.

[Don Lemon]

Just people in general.

[Bill Maher]

Right, right, right.

[Don Lemon]

But somehow we have forgotten that. I feel that that's what television should be like, that you should.

[Bill Maher]

Television can never be that way because I wouldn't even try to do it on my show. It's boring for the audience to go through all that. It just isn't. Believe me, if anyone knows I think it's me. I try to make real time as real as you can in that setting. It's just not this. First of all, I'm not high. Believe me, I've talked to the boss.

[Don Lemon]

You haven't been high on real time ever?

[Bill Maher]

No, that would be a disaster. I mean, I have, you know, Senator Tester on Friday night. I'm not going to get high with him.

[Don Lemon]

Couple cocktails.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, I mean, John, I'm almost 70. You can't like drink. I mean, I'm drinking tonight. Okay, so already I'm full of shit. No, you just can't drink a lot. I save it like for this. I really enjoy, I do enjoy drinking, but, you know, you just can't.

[Don Lemon]

Every once in a while I would go out when I was in cnn, I'd go out to dinner and have like a glass of wine or maybe like one cocktail and then two hours later I would do a show. I didn't feel like I was drunk, but the conversations were really good.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, the history of drugs of all kinds, improving art. Yeah, that's why they do it.

[Don Lemon]

That's what LSD was for. It was a mind expanding drug.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, if I had been lucky enough to get a message that resonated with me when I was 20 and starting to smoke, it would have been, hey, kid cigarettes. They don't get you anything. They don't make you smarter. Yeah, they. But you know, I. Pot. Yes. I mean, lsd. My record collection would be very different without it. Even heroin, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't recommend it, but you know, it. There would be Miles Davis. Not without it.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, music is. Why is music so good when you're high?

[Bill Maher]

Because it was made when they were high. No, no, it's just, it works, it works both ways. You know, it's just. We like drugs for a reason. They work okay. It's just that there's a downside and it's very hard to convince people when you're in your 20s, when your body is so strong that you can come back from anything. It's just hard to convince you that, oh, you know what, Think about when you're. Yeah, I'll never be that. And now I am that. And I wish I had thought about it then, but you know, that's youth versus age.

[Don Lemon]

But I think, Bill, you know, I, I'm going to disagree with you on. I think that we can have conversations like that on television.

[Bill Maher]

I think it's not like we're having now. Never.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I think that's the reason that there, that linear television is on the decline is because people are craving that realness and they're not giving the people what they want.

[Bill Maher]

It just move to a different place.

[Don Lemon]

It's a different.

[Bill Maher]

Your show's on YouTube.

[Don Lemon]

It's a different mechanism. It's the same thing though. It's a small.

[Bill Maher]

People watch you on YouTube than watched you on CNN.

[Don Lemon]

I think now, I think they.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you don't know the answer to that question.

[Don Lemon]

No, no, I do know the answer to that question. I think, you know, in my early days on cnn, I would say more people watched me on cnn. And then also when I was there, it was different time. I think more people watched me on cnn. I don't know. I think more people watch me now. But I think the highest point of CNN was during COVID and we had Covid and George Floyd at the same time and Donald Trump, and that was the height. That was the highest ratings, the most profitable of cnn. And so it was amazing to be there. People watched every night, and they sort of relied on us. Because you were stuck in your home and you had nothing else to do.

[Bill Maher]

I bet you more people see you now more.

[Don Lemon]

You're right. And more people see me now, and more people recognize me.

[Bill Maher]

And there's lots of stories. I can't think of any specifically right now, but about, like, for example, streaming versus the theater and directors. Maybe Martin Scorsese said this, I don't know, but somebody like that and one of their movies, maybe it was the Irishman. Maybe this is just. I'm making that up. But some. But I've heard this story about movies from directors before who said, you know, this movie I made, and I fought it to go to streaming, and it went to streaming, and 20 times more people saw it than would have in the theater.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, it's just I'm that person. Like, I see all the movies in my bed. Why wouldn't I? If. Unless I have to see something, like, the next day, which only rarely happens, or there's, like, a reason, maybe for my. We want to comment on it. On the show. I would go to a theater, but I think the last movie I saw in the theater was Barbie.

[Don Lemon]

I didn't even see that. I can't remember the last time. Unless I go to an opening, like a friend or someone, some group invites me to come to an opening.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I just watched the Dylan movie. What's that? No. Direction. Oh, no. A complete unknown. I just watched that with Chalamet in my bed.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. Which is why I agree with you.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

So now, look, I don't pay attention as much because I'm used to people going, oh, Don Lemon, hey, CNN guy, whatever. My husband says, don't more people recognize you now than when you're on cnn? And I'm like, really? Yes.

[Bill Maher]

No, I'm not surprised because.

[Don Lemon]

But also not just because of, you know, the podcast or whatever. The streaming show. But because of social media and my pledge to myself, someone asked me, like, you know, what is your purpose? And I said, my purpose, as my professional purpose is to meet the audience where they are. And the audience is not on cable. The audience is on social media, and it's on Digital and on YouTube and those kinds of places. Twitch or whatever. And that's where I'm meeting the AUD and having success with it. People think I'm nuts. Some of the things I do on social media.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, you're a little crazier than you used to be.

[Don Lemon]

I'm not crazy. I don't think it's crazy.

[Bill Maher]

I'm. I said crazier. Like, you do more wacky things.

[Don Lemon]

I do things that.

[Bill Maher]

In the street kind of stuff.

[Don Lemon]

I do. Well, I do manage. Every single journalist has done. Man. On the streets. And that's where the real. That's where you. You want to be where the people are. You want to know what they're saying.

[Bill Maher]

I love the people. Don't.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, no, seriously, you do. And if people who are sitting in studios, you know, you know, on a nightly basis and talking to people with suits on and ties or cocktail dresses about, they're not. They're not getting to the heart of what's happening. But I'm having fun.

[Bill Maher]

They're the kind of people who harass you later at the party.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, tell me about it. Especially if it's a Republican.

[Bill Maher]

Those are the titty twisters.

[Don Lemon]

Especially if it's a Republican event.

[Bill Maher]

What?

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my gosh. Republicans are so repressed to the guys. They're always. They're all, I. When. If there's a Republican event or a convention, I try to stay in my hotel room.

[Bill Maher]

Because they hit on you more.

[Don Lemon]

150%. Yes.

[Bill Maher]

You measured it.

[Don Lemon]

I'm just.

[Bill Maher]

I'm joking with you. But so that. So the Republicans hit on you more. This is so interesting. I mean, I'm not surprised. You know, I used to do this gig every year in Hawaii. Twelve years, New Year's Eve. It's the best. And the promoter of the event was a gay man. Love. I mean, I love this guy. We worked together for 12 years. I miss him. Does a lot of other shows, but we stayed at the Four Seasons in Maui.

[Don Lemon]

Beautiful. I love that place.

[Bill Maher]

And he said Grindr was very active with the bathroom in the lobby. And I'm like, who is that? And he said, married men whose wife had a massage that day and fell asleep in the room. And they go down and hook up with guys wow.

[Don Lemon]

That never happened to me there, but I'm not surprised. Grindr, by the way, crashes during the Republican convention. Phil, where have you been? Are you kidding me? You don't know this?

[Bill Maher]

No. Are you serious? No, I'm not in that world. Why would I know that?

[Don Lemon]

Like, people, like, it's a thing people know. I mean, I think it's because they're so repressed, and they can't. Because they can't be themselves, because they, you know, they're kind of have this whole thing about homosexuality or being gay.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, very much so, yeah.

[Don Lemon]

You know. You watch cnn, right? Do you know Bakari Sellers?

[Bill Maher]

Sure.

[Don Lemon]

So Bakari Sellers is a friend, and on inauguration night 2017, Bakari says, let's go to the Trump Hotel. And I said, are you kidding me? No way. I'm not going there. And he said, why? They're not gonna. I'll protect you. I'm like, no, not against. Like, I'm not afraid of anyone beating me up, because I'll kick their ass. There's so much rage inside of this body. I'll kick their ass. And he said, why don't you want to go? I said, because I am seeing someone number one, and I don't want to be hit on so much by. And he goes, you gay guys, you want every straight guy to be gay. I'm like, no, Lisa, come with me. I was like, okay. So I go, everyone's buying me drinks. Don Lemon is here, blah, blah, blah. And then all of these guys are over talking to me and sort of rubbing up against me and whatever. And Bakari's like, oh, my God, you're right. I have no idea. He had no idea. And it's. I don't think they're doing it to just normal heterosexual men. I think they're doing it to gay men who they know because they know that they're gay, and so they're shooting their shot. I hate to say that, but it's the truth.

[Bill Maher]

No, that. That really doesn't surprise me. But I do think that the idea that you would go over there, even if it was. This was a Trump.

[Don Lemon]

It was Trump Hotel on inauguration night. Yeah, it was a Trump crowd.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. The idea that they would be hostile. I mean, I know a lot of MAGA people.

[Don Lemon]

One person was hostile, right?

[Bill Maher]

See. Let me ask you your opinion. On this Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary show, they did one thing. They did a sketch where Tom Hanks puts on a MAGA hat. So he's a Trumper. And then Kenan Comes over to shake his hand and he won't shake his hand. And I said this on Fareed show the other day. I found that so old, you know, I didn't vote for him. I get all the bad things about that administration, but if you think they don't shake black people's hands, that's, it's just, it's just you're wrong. That's not who they are. Matt Gaetz shakes black people's hands. You know, Kid Rock will shake your hand. It's just not helpful to like think that half the country, that's, that's where they are. That's your.

[Don Lemon]

Still, you're a comedian, you know, it's part of its comedy.

[Bill Maher]

I understand.

[Don Lemon]

But let's be honest. There's a, there's a huge faction of the MAGA movement that's really fucking racist.

[Bill Maher]

I wouldn't say huge. No, I'd say, I would say huge. Yeah. Okay. Well, we have different perspectives.

[Don Lemon]

I would say huge. But. And even if they're not, you have to overlook a lot of that in order to support Donald Trump, which I think is maybe even more egregious than just saying I'm a racist.

[Bill Maher]

So what do you think is the worst? I mean, to me, the back in. Was it 89, the Central Park 5. Yeah, that was to me like the most egregious thing because it just seems so like, and then of course, the Obama birth certificate, which.

[Don Lemon]

You mean with Donald Trump? With Trump. What's the most egregious thing?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I mean, he sued me. Trump did.

[Don Lemon]

For the orangutan thing.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, because I was making fun of that because that was very racist. But also like, he seemed to be just, I mean, there was something very animating about his like just laser focused drive about the Central Park Five thing that seemed to, I, I, you would feel the race ism in there.

[Don Lemon]

What was the payoff? Why was he there? He wasn't running for office.

[Bill Maher]

It was. Right. It just seemed like, like it just, there's something in him. And of course we know his father was a virulent racist.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, and he grew up in a different time and he's almost 80 and yes, I, I understand that element to it, but you know, to, to ascribe to all the people who voted for him, which is a majority of the country.

[Don Lemon]

I didn't say all the people.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I understand.

[Don Lemon]

It's not a majority. It's plurality.

[Bill Maher]

Well, whatever it is, he won. Yeah, it's at least half the country. I mean, to Ascribe the. His worst traits to all of them.

[Don Lemon]

I think it's half the country, but go on. Well, what, what is it to whatever.

[Bill Maher]

How do you win an election? Well, and the first is the electorate.

[Don Lemon]

Not everybody votes. And I don't think. I think most of the people in America don't vote, and I don't think it's half the country. So what I'm saying is I don't think half the country is racist, and I don't think all of MAGA is racist, but I do think that there is a huge element in the MAGA party that is racist. Whether they are, whether they are conscious of it or not. Some of them are not. And if they are not, they have had to overlook a lot of racism and a lot of bigotry. And if you do that and you say, I'm okay with this, I think that makes you worse than someone who just says, hey, I'm a racist. And they tell you.

[Bill Maher]

But some of it is just a backlash to what they think was going too far. Like all these corporations now that have dropped DEI now in the government. They did it because the audience.

[Don Lemon]

Backlash for what?

[Bill Maher]

For too much dei.

[Don Lemon]

I don't think those people understand what DEI is. DEI is not the hiring of black people who are not qualified. Or, or it can be people who are. No, no, no, that's not what it's about.

[Bill Maher]

It can have that result.

[Don Lemon]

Anything can be. Yes, of course it could have that result, but there's no evidence that it does have that result. Oh, I don't know about that. Okay, so then, then what is your evidence? There's no evidence that there is that result. If you can show me the evidence, then okay, then I will agree with you.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I'm not going to name any names.

[Don Lemon]

Okay? But diversity, equity, inclusion, first of all, is not. Maybe they're talking about affirmative action, which is a whole different thing, which is about making sure you hired, you know, a certain number of people that are this, that, and that. But diversity, equity and inclusion is about making sure that the pool of candidates is larger. So if you are fishing rather than fishing in a swimming pool, maybe you're in a pond. Rather than fishing in a pond, you're in a lake. Or maybe in the lake instead of.

[Bill Maher]

A river, or in a river and.

[Don Lemon]

You'Re in the ocean. So you're just trying to find different people and you're trying to increase the number of options of qualified people that you can hire. It's not about hiring people who are not qualified and who are just black. The biggest recipient of DEI is white women and also veterans, because of veterans and also people who are disabled people. It's just about making sure that disabled people have a ramp somewhere at work so that they get to work and it's good.

[Bill Maher]

And equity is the word, not equality. That it was a change that people noticed. Equality was everybody gets an equal shot. Equity is like, no, it's basically quotas. Equity is, we're going, it's quotas.

[Don Lemon]

I don't think that everybody. America's never been about everybody getting an equal shot.

[Bill Maher]

No, it certainly hasn't been. No one's contesting that. No, but that's what the idea, the old school liberal idea was. We need to strive for equality. That changed to equity. This is what some people are against and reasonable people can disagree with on it without being racist. Having said that, there are other, of course, racists in this country. There always will be, just like there will always be criminals. I'm ready for my life to change.

[Don Lemon]

ABC Sundays. American Idol is all new. Give it your all. Good luck and have the contest ticket. Let's hear it. This is a man's world.

[Bill Maher]

I've never seen anything like it.

[Don Lemon]

And a new chapter begins. We're going to Hollywood. Carrie Underwood joins Lionel Richie, Luke Bryant and Ryan Seacrest on American Idol News Sundays, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. Your data is like gold to hackers. They're selling your passwords, bank details and private messages. McAfee helps stop that message. Secure VPN keeps your online activity private. AI powered text scam detector spots phishing attempts instantly. And with award winning antivirus, you get top tier hacker protection. Plus you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage, all for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. I agree, but I think the people who are disagreeing about it, they need to understand exactly what it is. I think people who disagree may not understand what it is. Now, I have an issue with DEI because I think when you make it a religion, it is. It's not. Then you end up with The Al Frankens of the world of people who get canceled and they use the DEI stuff to get rid of people. But I think you have to understand what the real definition is and that people have sort of co opted it. And I think if you believe, as in the definition that the MAGA Trump administration, that they're saying what DEI is, that is a racist definition of diversity, equity and inclusion.

[Bill Maher]

What is that? What is it?

[Don Lemon]

They're saying that this is because they're hiring people, women, people of color, minorities who are not qualified. And that's not what is happening.

[Bill Maher]

So you're saying no person of color or woman was ever. Who was not qualified, was ever hired for any job?

[Don Lemon]

I'm sorry, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not saying that.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, but it seems like that would have to be the logical conclusion.

[Don Lemon]

But that would be saying that no white people were ever unqualified.

[Bill Maher]

And we know lots of them have.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And so, but so when you're. Most of the people who are. They talk about the airplanes and the airplane industry, most of the pilots and the people are white. Most of the doctors in the country where they say, dei, we don't want it, we don't hate. Most of the doctors are white. And so all of those malpractice suits are against mostly white doctors. Most of the planes that fall out of the sky are piloted by white pilots. And so then what is your issue then with diversity, equity and inclusion?

[Bill Maher]

I don't have one. I'm.

[Don Lemon]

No, I'm not saying you. I'm talking about. They understood you. What is your issue then if there is no evidence. Well, that by the by. By hiring a bigger pool of people.

[Bill Maher]

No, I think they think they. I mean, I think there is evidence. There are places. Okay, I will give you an example because we had fires here recently. I mentioned it on my show. So something new. I'm saying, but our fire chief was a lesbian. And I said on my show, do I think a lesbian can do that job? Of course I do. But I think what they did was said, okay, we want to hire a lesbian first, so we're going to hire the best person among lesbians as opposed to we're going to hire the best person, that kind of thing. Now I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but to pretend that that kind of thing hasn't been happening in this country.

[Don Lemon]

I don't disagree with you on that.

[Bill Maher]

Disingenuous.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, I understand what you're saying. I shouldn't say I don't disagree with you. I understand what you're saying, but that one example, as opposed to the. Hang on. As opposed to the millions of examples of people who are not diverse, as they say, who have been hired and unqualified. I think that that is, that's Apple's. That's like this and that.

[Bill Maher]

But again, I'm answering to you why people vote for Trump. Who. Because if it's you, by the way. No, you're right. I understand if it's you. If you think you lost out on something, you're going to be bitter about it. Like, I did a thing once about how political parties are really, like, you're a lawyer. That's how people think. Are you going to represent me? So you might think philosophically one way about something. But for example, in San Francisco, they had a pretty woke board there for a while that they got rid of that they got voted out because they were discriminating against Asians. And there's a lot of Asians in San Francisco. And they got rid of the, like the merit test or the whatever, the genius test, something, because it was too many Asians were getting in and they wanted to be. And again, this is equity. They wanted the racial quota of it to be. Let me finish. No, okay, okay.

[Don Lemon]

I'm about to agree with you.

[Bill Maher]

They wanted, okay. They wanted to be more equal.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So the Asians were basically like, well, we think it's a noble goal to advance the cause of Latinos and black Americans and lots of other people. But my kid would have benefited from having this advanced program that you got rid of. So you know what? You're not my lawyer. You're not representing me in the court of America, and therefore I'm going to vote for the other guy. That's what happens a lot.

[Don Lemon]

No, so I understand, but you. So couple things here. You're saying I'm talking to you about what diversity, equity and inclusion actually is. Nothing that we do ever is perfect. Right. Your show is not perfectly so. Okay, so they're. This is. So you're talking that, that's, let's put that aside. But you're talking about reasons that people vote for Donald Trump. I don't disagree with you, but some of those reasons are not based in reality and they're irrational and some of them are very rational. So to vote for someone who is who you think is looking out for you is very rational, but it doesn't mean that you're voting for that person on the basis of something that is actually factual.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, people are not rational. At all about anything. Okay.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. So I don't disagree with you about why people are voting for Donald Trump.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, do you think your life is rational?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Bill Maher]

You don't.

[Don Lemon]

I don't think my life is rational.

[Bill Maher]

But I think I'm curious about this. What's. So what's your.

[Don Lemon]

I don't think that life is in general. If you're just talking about life. I don't think that is. I don't think that it's rational. I just think sometimes it's very random.

[Bill Maher]

I couldn't agree with you.

[Don Lemon]

You just sort of deal with the random nature of life the best way that you can, and you have a good attitude about it.

[Bill Maher]

You walk around all day as if you're in control and you're not.

[Don Lemon]

You're not in control.

[Bill Maher]

Isn't that right? You walk around all day as if you are, but the reality is you're, you're really not. You're. You're more of a jellyfish with the tide and you go. And you, you handle the tide as best you can.

[Don Lemon]

And it's best to, like, either. Sometimes it's best to just go with the tide.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

Or not. Take your hands off the wheel.

[Bill Maher]

Right. Or if someone steps on you, sting them. That's what I do. And hope you don't get washed up on shore. I agree. 100.

[Don Lemon]

And that's the time that we're in right now. What do you mean when you said someone steps on you, sting them?

[Bill Maher]

Well, I'm a jellyfish.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, if you're a jellyfish. But I think there are too many people just sort of laying back and not stinging. Then, like, the Democrats are not stinging.

[Bill Maher]

No, they are definitely not. They're pathetic.

[Don Lemon]

They're just.

[Bill Maher]

That display last night at the speech. I don't know when we're dropping this. Probably very soon. So it was probably last week where I mean, look like auction paddles with like signs like, musk lies.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my God. I did that on my show today. So I said, oh, yeah, the Democrats were doing at the convention. And I wrote on a piece of. On a tablet and I said, trump bad.

[Bill Maher]

I was like, trump bad.

[Don Lemon]

And they were like, trump. And I'm like, yes, Trump is bad. Musk mean. Must be so mean. So it's like, if you're going to fight back, shouldn't you be stronger about fighting back?

[Bill Maher]

Oh, my God. They're, they're just, they're just, they're showing the country who are not savvy about issues why they voted for them. Because People are instinctive about politics. No, Donald Trump is not literally true with almost anything he says. We've litigated that. They don't care.

[Don Lemon]

He's a liar. He lies a lot.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly. They don't care. They don't take him literally. They take him seriously. The media takes him seriously, but not literally. But not seriously. That's somebody's great line about it.

[Don Lemon]

I forgot her name. It was during the 2016.

[Bill Maher]

When they see this, what they see is, oh, one side. I don't really understand Ukraine and lots of stuff, but one side looks so weak and disorganized and feeble. And this guy looks strong.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, I think he's kind of an.

[Bill Maher]

Asshole, and I'm not sure he's right about a lot of things, but he's strong, and they're in charge and they're willing to look at things different. That's what a lot of people are seeing right now. So the Democrats have got to. I mean, I've been. Last week, I proposed Fetterman. I think he's the best one they have because he's got a pair of balls on him. He will not kowtow to the far left of his own party. He acts like a guy who's got nothing to lose because he's had a stroke. You know, he's been through the fucking mill. And he wears shorts. He does whatever the fuck he wants. And that's what people react to. Authenticity and balls. Trump has that. This guy has that. The rest of the Democrats, they just. I mean, they're. They're embarrassing and they're not helping themselves.

[Don Lemon]

Well.

[Bill Maher]

And we need two parties in this country.

[Don Lemon]

There's a lot there. Bill, I think that Trump is fortunately or unfortunately able to live in an existence where he doesn't have to rely on facts.

[Bill Maher]

Correct. That's his superpower. That's his superpower is that he lies so much and gets so much so off that it's so baked in the cake that he's not held to those standards. Like I said, they take him seriously, but not literally, but not seriously. They just assume that that's who he is. If he says Zelensky's approval rating is 4%, it's 57. And you just go with. Is amazing.

[Don Lemon]

Because, again, he doesn't have a lot of folks who are. Especially in this streaming thing that we're in. You don't have to deal with facts. You don't have to deal with reality. And Trump, sort of. Trump is a shapeshifter. He shapes reality into whatever he Wants it to be genius, but he doesn't have to live in that. And I think Democrats demand of their people that everything factual and one side.

[Bill Maher]

Blah, blah, blah, has to hit the ball over the net.

[Don Lemon]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

And the other side, there's no net.

[Don Lemon]

There's no net and they don't care.

[Bill Maher]

But you know what? He created that and people. And stuck with it until people just bowed down and said, okay, fine, that's it. You stuck with that. And we're gonna just. I mean, it's an amazing accomplish accomplishment of sorts.

[Don Lemon]

I think the Tea Party created that. And then, and then Donald Trump. No, I think Donald Trump.

[Bill Maher]

The Tea Party did not. Scott did not say something. Was 4% if it was 57%. They all have their spin and their bullshit, including some people on the left, obviously, but not to this degree. Not like Bill.

[Don Lemon]

That's what starting it means.

[Bill Maher]

Doesn't mean just making a number up in your head that you think it should be.

[Don Lemon]

Well, he amplified that. I think he is a recipient of that.

[Bill Maher]

You know what? I find this so boring. This is why I said I don't want him to win because. Well, there are other reasons, but because I've been through this administrator, I've been through this thing. It's so boring to just constantly hear people talking about what an asshole Trump is. I know I was the first one to say it. I'm over it. It's just fucking boring. We get it, he's bad. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, you know, Trump bad. I just, I don't wanna, I just, I'm done.

[Don Lemon]

I think you were the first to say that he wouldn't, wouldn't leave, but I was the first to actually call him a liar on tv and I was the first to actually call him racist on tv and maybe that's why I'm not on TV anymore, but I don't know. But I do think that he was the recipient of what the Tea Party started, but he. On steroids. He was, he was a recipient of that, but on steroids. Donald Trump says, I don't give a.

[Bill Maher]

Don't give a.

[Don Lemon]

And he does whatever he wants.

[Bill Maher]

That's so appealing.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And, and don't you. I think it's appealing to a degree. I mean, but I think at some point you have to give a. Because you have to care about people. If you are in a. If you are a public servant, then you need. You have to care about the people and actually working.

[Bill Maher]

I will name the person who most exemplifies.

[Don Lemon]

I've been using the thing you're using. Do you mind if I use my hand?

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Don Lemon]

All right, go ahead.

[Bill Maher]

Unless you're gonna grab my tits with. You know, it's cold.

[Don Lemon]

It's too cold for that.

[Bill Maher]

Kanye, who is more of a. I mean, you can't get more I don't give a fuck than I like Hitler. I love Hitler, whatever. All his Hitler things. You can't get more of a. And that's why he will always have a fan base somewhat similar to Trump's, because there are people who are like, for, damn, that guy cannot be intimidated.

[Don Lemon]

But is that something that's admirable?

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Don Lemon]

Should we celebrate that?

[Bill Maher]

I'm not celebrating it.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I'm saying if the subject is what you were just talking about, people who don't give a fuck. I said Fetterman is kind of that guy. Trump is kind of that guy.

[Don Lemon]

Fetterman is more of a libertarian to me than a.

[Bill Maher]

Well, whatever it is, he says what he thinks, and he doesn't care if you don't like it. Kanye, I mean, that is. He. To me, that's his performance art. He is at the very edge of that. Like, I dare you to completely destroy me. I'm just gonna say I don't know if he even believes that shit about Hitler. But it's. It's. I think it's. It's more the fact that I will say it than what he's saying. If there was something else that was more egregious, I think he would say that. But he found that thing, and that's his litmus test, and there's. There. He will always have fans.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, so I.

[Bill Maher]

You're right.

[Don Lemon]

If he will always have fans. But my question is, why? Why be.

[Bill Maher]

Because people.

[Don Lemon]

Why be an anti Semite?

[Bill Maher]

Well, I. I just explained why. Not because I don't think he really cares that much about it, but because it's a way to demonstrate. You cannot intimidate me into not saying anything.

[Don Lemon]

I think it is. I don't think it's that. I think it's. I think when people do that, it's the shortest line to the front of either promotion, in whatever sense it is. It could be promoting a product, it could be promoting themselves, and you are doing something that is out of the box to get attention just for the sake of getting attention or just for the sake of. For the sake of pure ambition, where. It's the same thing that I. When I see not all black Republicans, but I see a black MAGA person who is carrying Donald Trump's water, and they know that he's lying. It is the shortest line to the front. Because if you're black and you're whatever, any. You're just in line with a bunch of other Democrats that are doing the same thing that. That you're doing. But if you become a black MAGA person, it's like, whoa, let's book this person. Let's put them on television.

[Bill Maher]

So you don't think you can be a sincere black MAGA person?

[Don Lemon]

No, no, I just said. I, I don't think that. I just said. I think there can be sincere Republicans.

[Bill Maher]

But you can't be a sincere black Republican.

[Don Lemon]

I don't think that you can. I don't think that you can be a rational maga, be black and be a rational MAGA person. I think you can be black and be a Republican.

[Bill Maher]

I think they would find that very insulting.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I mean, the truth is often insulting.

[Bill Maher]

That's true, too. Yeah, but I, Yeah, I wouldn't say that because there are cases to be made that they're making. I don't. I never would go all the way to Donald Trump because he does not concede elections. That's my biggest issue with him. So, like the Republican types who think, oh, someday Bill Maher is going to. No, no, no. Bill Maher is always going to be where Bill Maher has always been. I. If, if you change enough.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, you.

[Bill Maher]

But you. You're going in the wrong direction. But, you know, I think 20% of black men voted for Trump.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I think that.

[Bill Maher]

So they're.

[Don Lemon]

That's okay that 20% of black men voted for Trump.

[Bill Maher]

Can't they just think differently? Can't people just have different. It's not, it's not just like you're informed about everything. Like, you don't think anything.

[Don Lemon]

You have this. I don't think you're hearing me. I said that I believe that black people can be Republicans. Remember, there were lots of Republicans. Frederick Douglass.

[Bill Maher]

It was different in those era.

[Don Lemon]

It was different. I was a Republican, by the way, but I started as a Republican.

[Bill Maher]

Is that right?

[Don Lemon]

Yes, but. So I think that a lot of what MAGA does is irrational, and it's often based in lies and it's not factual. It's people that you said you don't like, people who are. Who deny elections, who deny insurrections or whatever. So that's the MAGA party. That is the MAGA party. I'm not saying that's all Republican. No, look, so for a person of color, a black person, to you know, lend their. To believe, you know, in that when it is based in irrationality and a lot of it is based in racism. For me, I have lots of questions about that. I don't question black Republicans.

[Bill Maher]

I'm gonna let. I mean, do you talk to people like that? Like, I had Byron Donald on my show.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Maybe two weeks ago.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I got to my office today, and it was a lovely pin that he had sent me. It had his name on it, an American eagle. And, you know, I like Byron. I'm just, you know, I just can't. I just can't live in this country where I hate half the people who. Yes. Think fundamentally differently about a lot of things. I've said this here before. We have to be able to get to this point where you can say to somebody who you agree with, a, B, C, D, but E woe. How could they believe in E if we both believe in A, B, C, and D? And it is a conundrum, but it does happen in human nature. And you just have to be able to go, okay, we just. We have different upbringings, different influences in our life, different. I don't know, metabolism, different. Just. We're just different, and we come to different conclusions. I understand that, Bill, and you can't be so.

[Don Lemon]

But it doesn't. Because I am. Because I can see what is happening, and I live in reality. It doesn't mean that I hate anyone. I don't hate anyone. I don't hate Donald Trump. I don't hate maga. Right, right. But I understand that MAGA is based on the. You were not born in this country. MAGA is based on Mexicans are rapists. MAGA is based on that Donald Trump did not inspire an election. MAGA is based on Donald Trump didn't try to overturn an election. MAGA is based on Donald Trump. They don't believe that he. That he was found guilty in a court of law. So they're built. It's built on lies. So that's why I question that. To understand and to be able to see through that. It doesn't mean that you hate people. It just means that you're being rational and logical. As I said, I think they're black Republicans. I was one. I think that's all fine, but I think that MAGA is. I think it's, you know, it's problematic, and it's based on lies and racism. And that doesn't mean I hate those people. I actually kind of feel sorry for them.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I mean, this. You know, it's not untrue. There is racism in it and there's certainly a lot of lies. So what do you do in the morning, John? Do you. Are you an early riser or. Don, it's time for our cooking segment. I don't know if you know this, but I make.

[Don Lemon]

Moving on.

[Bill Maher]

I make a mean omelette that I think.

[Don Lemon]

Moving on.

[Bill Maher]

No, tell me about your. Your day.

[Don Lemon]

I'm not a morning person.

[Bill Maher]

Me neither.

[Don Lemon]

I hate the morning. I hate waking up in the. I like to wake up in the afternoon. I'm like. I like to.

[Bill Maher]

All the way into the afternoon.

[Don Lemon]

I like to rise at the crack of noon.

[Bill Maher]

That's. My father used to say that usually.

[Don Lemon]

I like to rise at about 11, maybe 10. But 11 because I'm a night owl.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly. What, I'm late. Right.

[Don Lemon]

But now, because I want people to be informed about what's happening. I think we have to have an informed electorate. I wake up at like 8, 8:30. I do a live 10 o'clock show on YouTube, the Don Lemon Show. Every day I do a live show, live stream.

[Bill Maher]

Why is it going to be so.

[Don Lemon]

Early 10am because most people are starting their day and are going about their day and I think they need to be informed and I think that there is, there was a need for content there and for people to, to understand what was happening. And, and I don't think anyone was fulfilling that. And so lucky.

[Bill Maher]

I only have to show up in makeup once a week at 4 o'clock on Friday afternoon.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I used to have to show up at makeup at 9 o'clock and Eastern every night and that's it. And then go on at 10. But that, I mean, that's fulfilling for you. That was fulfilling to me at the moment, but this is what's fulfilling to me now. And I do a live.

[Bill Maher]

A live stream or a live show.

[Don Lemon]

Every day at 5 Eastern as well. I do two live shows a day working for you.

[Bill Maher]

I'm glad you glad it all came out in the wash for you? No, because for a while there, like cnn, there was just lots of. It's amazing how much they cover what goes on at CNN and msnbc considering that their ratings are not exactly through the roof. But I mean, that's a good point. But you know, it's the media. The media loves the media. But we heard everything about you and Chris Cuomo and you know, it was just always this sturm and drunk and it's being taken over by this guy and this guy and he was, we gotta get c. I mean CNN is such. And I'm on CNN now. They re show my show on Saturday night. I'm thrilled about it.

[Don Lemon]

But that's one thing. That's also when people do that, that's a sign of your relevance where you are in the culture.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And so you don't hear that much anymore, do you not?

[Bill Maher]

Well, yeah. I mean, they definitely have to find their footing again. I think the guy they got there now is. Is heading in the right direction. And I mean, Don, when they said to me, we want to put your show on cnn, I said, what about all the fucks? And they said, they don't care. And I'm like, they don't care. Cnn. I'm like, wow. Do they beep it this? No.

[Don Lemon]

Oh.

[Bill Maher]

I'm like, this world has changed. When I first went on the Tonight show, you couldn't say ass. And now you can say fuck on cnn. I mean, I try to keep the. Keep the cunts to the minimum. I mean, I'm not an unreasonable. I'm not an unreasonable man.

[Don Lemon]

You know, it's a word that I would never even think about.

[Bill Maher]

It's a great word.

[Don Lemon]

And people say that. I love that word. It's a great word. It's a word that I would never even think. Great word saying.

[Bill Maher]

I think the gays should take it over.

[Don Lemon]

It's hard for us to do that because the gays love women.

[Bill Maher]

I know. Yeah, but. But the British use it in a way that isn't demeaning, you know?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but it's different. The British press, they have a different.

[Bill Maher]

But like, couldn't we like everything? The like the man cunt or something and it would be kind of fun.

[Don Lemon]

Such a mud.

[Bill Maher]

Or I want to get in that munt tonight, you know, I mean, it could also be sexy. That's what I'm saying. I mean. Well, I think it.

[Don Lemon]

No, that's gross. I don't think that would appeal to any.

[Bill Maher]

Wow, you're turning red. And you're a black man.

[Don Lemon]

Rust. Rust.

[Bill Maher]

It's unbelievable.

[Don Lemon]

But we have a word for that. The gays have a word for that. Do you want to hear it?

[Bill Maher]

I want to know everything about it.

[Don Lemon]

It's called bussy.

[Bill Maher]

That's better.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

What's the B for, boys? Wait, what am I getting wrong? Pussy. I get that part, B. I don't know. I really don't know. Am I stoned?

[Don Lemon]

How. How do men have sex? What do they do if they do?

[Bill Maher]

Usually they do it in the naughty place.

[Don Lemon]

What is a naughty place called?

[Bill Maher]

The ass The. The booty or the. The booty or the butt? The butt.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. Okay, okay.

[Bill Maher]

All right. Well, there's lots of words for it. You can't hate me that much. I get it. What do you like? Anthropoma? Anthropomologically. What do you make of anthropologically? Thank you, John. I need a real anchor here to help me with that. We could do a show together. I could harass you when the cameras went off. Anyway, they like anthropologists, always. Why is there a homosexual element in nature? I'm not. Please. It's a wonderful thing. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. It's just different.

[Don Lemon]

Just ask me a question. I don't.

[Bill Maher]

It's just counterintuitive. Like, why would you have a certain segment of the population that isn't for repopulating and, you know, if you had to start from scratch, would you have sex where the shit comes out? You know, that kind of thing?

[Don Lemon]

Well, I mean, if you look in n. But homosexuality is in it.

[Bill Maher]

Even in animals.

[Don Lemon]

Even in animals. And there are sometimes there are two members of the same sex who can actually repopulate or whatever. But sex is not necessarily for. Yeah, sex is not necessarily for repopulation because, I mean, how many kids do you have?

[Bill Maher]

I've never been married.

[Don Lemon]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

I'm way behind.

[Don Lemon]

How often have you had sex?

[Bill Maher]

Today?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Zero.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. And how have you helped to repopulate the Earth?

[Bill Maher]

No, I'm really actively against it.

[Don Lemon]

I rest my case.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. No, but I'm just saying it feels good. No, but I'm talking about nature. Like, nature usually. I mean, you believe in evolution and all that? Of course. Okay, so. So, like, everything in nature seems to be driven toward just this, like, very often cruel. How animals kill each other and the way they die off. And if you lose a step in nature, you know, I mean, if you lose a step on the jets, you get cut, but if you lose a step in nature, you die. You know, nature's cruel like that. You know what I mean? So, like, everything has a purpose and everything seems to be just to keep the species going. It's just. What is the anthropomological, anthropological. Thank you. Explanation for that? It's just. It's. It's interesting, right?

[Don Lemon]

Like the anthropological explanation of homosexuality.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

I don't know.

[Bill Maher]

Like, why does nature want this? Nature obviously wants this element.

[Don Lemon]

I don't know if nature wants it. I think it's population. Maybe it's population control. Is that what you're going to say?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Maybe it's population control. Maybe it is not. Not such an egregious thing. Except for religion.

[Bill Maher]

Correct? It's not egregious at all.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, so then that's what I'm saying. So why does nature want it? Maybe nature wants it because it actually feels good and because it's actually normal and because of people's religious beliefs in this.

[Bill Maher]

Religion is totally the villain in this one.

[Don Lemon]

And some people. Like you remember we had this conversation the other week at a party. A couple things we did at a party.

[Bill Maher]

Wait a second.

[Don Lemon]

We were at a party and I think that you were.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I know, the Grammys.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, we're at the Grammys.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, remember I was torturing before Ari Melber? Yeah, because you look so fly and I look good. And then somebody else came in that's a slub. And Ari wore the wrong jacket. And I love Ari. Not a schlub, but he did.

[Don Lemon]

It was a slubby jacket. I love Ari. Don't get me wrong. It was a slubby.

[Bill Maher]

Jack. I just said, this is Hollywood, you know? We know this shit.

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Bill Maher]

All right.

[Don Lemon]

And I told him. I said, ari, need a gay friend.

[Bill Maher]

Remember?

[Don Lemon]

Best friend?

[Bill Maher]

Anyway, so we were at this party. Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

And we were talking about, like, you know, I think we're talking about attraction and who we're dating or something, Right? And I don't know if it was you. Maybe it was you. I don't know. But you, like, you. You are a heterosexual white guy.

[Bill Maher]

Some white guy.

[Don Lemon]

You are a heterosexual guy. You're not attracted to men, and that's okay. But there are some men who may choose to spend their life married to a woman and being in relationship with a woman. But they may find gay sex appealing.

[Bill Maher]

In the bathroom at the Four Seasons in Maui.

[Don Lemon]

But if we didn't have such a thing about it, they wouldn't have to do that.

[Bill Maher]

Of course. No, I. I know.

[Don Lemon]

And the same thing. I mean, maybe there are some gay men. Maybe once in a while I might like to hang out with a woman.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, they all do. Yeah, once in a while I do.

[Don Lemon]

I mean, I like boobs.

[Bill Maher]

Really?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, I like boobs. I think they're beautiful. I like the way they look.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, they're okay.

[Don Lemon]

I mean, you're an ass man.

[Bill Maher]

No, I mean. Talk about. This conversation is getting weird, Mrs. Robinson. But no, I. I like the midsection. Like, if I had to pick. Yes.

[Don Lemon]

You like the cha. Cha.

[Bill Maher]

Or that.

[Don Lemon]

The midsection of the body.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, like. But like. Like from the. Like, I'm not Against any of it. I love women. Like. Like, trust me, I'm, like, the last guy who's gonna, like, experiment with your side of the street.

[Don Lemon]

That was our conversation. I told you.

[Bill Maher]

Right? It's just. I'm just. And that's just. That's okay. There's a spectrum. There truly is a spectrum. You know, I mean, I. I'm totally on that page.

[Don Lemon]

But you know how I know that you are a 100% homosexual? I mean, heterosexual. Excuse me, I'm 100% heterosexual. Is because you're okay with it and you get it.

[Bill Maher]

Totally.

[Don Lemon]

Like, if I. You cannot say. You cannot make yourself be with someone that you're not attracted to. Right? Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

No, I mean, do you think it's wrong if a person asking for a friend doesn't even really like to watch gay sex in, like, say, a movie?

[Don Lemon]

No. I mean, it makes. I think it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. PDA makes me uncomfortable. You know, seeing a man and a woman kiss on television or movie doesn't make me uncomfortable. But sometimes in public, I'm like, okay, guys, I don't really need to say. Right.

[Bill Maher]

I agree.

[Don Lemon]

And maybe it's my internalized homophobia, but sometimes it makes me uncomfortable to see, like, two men kissing or whatever, and I'm like, why don't I feel that about women? Because it's much more accepted in culture and society, and guys are like, oh, my gosh, this is hot.

[Bill Maher]

Right?

[Don Lemon]

And so I think maybe it's just sort of environment and training, you know?

[Bill Maher]

I was watching Breakfast at Tiffany's the other day. Have you ever seen.

[Don Lemon]

Wait, are you sure you're not gay now?

[Bill Maher]

You're watching Breakfast at Tiffany's in the kitchen? I take things in the kitchen. You know, I watch it, like, at 15 minutes at a time when I'm making food. Have you ever seen it?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, of course.

[Bill Maher]

So awesome. I had never seen it. That's how not gay I am.

[Don Lemon]

You've never seen it?

[Bill Maher]

I just watched it, yeah. Because it always looked kind of gay.

[Don Lemon]

It's actually not. I forget who's.

[Bill Maher]

It's so good.

[Don Lemon]

Who's the guy in it? What's his name?

[Bill Maher]

George Peppard. Peppard went on to be the head in the lead in the A team in the 80s. This was 1961. Audrey Hepburn, Truman Capote, a gay author. His book. And I always knew it was about. She's like a hooker. It's so interesting. Like a hooker in 1966.

[Don Lemon]

She's a gallabout town.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you know what? It was. This is so. This is 1960.

[Don Lemon]

Maybe the book, she was a hooker, but not in the movies.

[Bill Maher]

It was true to the book. Here's what it is. In 1961, gentlemen give her $50 to go when she goes to the powder room. Which, you know, maybe you'd tip a dollar. Now, $50 in 1961 was like, $500.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So that's as close as they could get to say that she was a hooker. And then, I mean, there's no sex in it. And he. That's what. I never knew. I knew that about the movie because it's so famous. He's a fucking whore, too. He's a whore, too.

[Don Lemon]

He's a hooker.

[Bill Maher]

Not a hooker, but there's this older woman who, like, writes him checks. So they're both. I mean, sex workers. Because they're the new group that. Since the Oscars now. Oh, man, the Oscars had a good night for horrors. Am I wrong? I mean, Bill, what happens if you.

[Don Lemon]

Have to pee on Club Random?

[Bill Maher]

Oh, you just hold it. No, no, no, go ahead.

[Don Lemon]

I can't hold it any longer.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, I'll wait.

[Don Lemon]

Hold that thought. It's right here, right?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, okay.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah, right there.

[Don Lemon]

I'm sorry, Bill.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no. I've done it myself. I mean, Pete. Not like Pete on camera. No, no, there's no cameras in there that I know of. That's so good of you, Don. I love that we're having the interview continue while you're in the bathroom, because this is a first for Club Random. But I don't. I don't dislike it. And. And you're such a pro. Such a pro. A lot of people will not continue the interview while they're peeing.

[Don Lemon]

You can put it on TV if you want. I don't give a. Well, I didn't, like, you know, it wasn't. Or anything like that.

[Bill Maher]

Honestly, Don, they're not watching this for the guest.

[Don Lemon]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

It's all good.

[Don Lemon]

That was amazing. Thank you very much for that.

[Bill Maher]

Well, is anyone. I'm so happy you came.

[Don Lemon]

Is my mic still working?

[Bill Maher]

I'm so happy you came here. I appreciate you. Make it make. No, I'm just telling you I'm happy you came here. I appreciate you made the effort. I'm glad I'm getting to know you.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

First you do such a progression.

[Don Lemon]

I'd like to hang out with you.

[Bill Maher]

There we go. But, like, that's how it happens. People sometimes see me out with so many. Like, how do you guys know each Other I'm always like, you know what? I don't remember. And here's how. First you do real time. Okay, great. You know, that's on the air. We talked a little after the show. Fine. But, you know, you don't want to bum rush people. Hey, let's be friends right away. Then you see him at a party, you talk a little more. Then you come here, you talk a little more. Friendships have to happen organically. I mean, how'd you meet your husband?

[Don Lemon]

I agree. I met my husband at a restaurant slash bar, so.

[Bill Maher]

Well, most restaurants have a bar.

[Don Lemon]

It's kind of a bougie story. Do you want to hear?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I really do.

[Don Lemon]

So I was renting with friends in the Hamptons one summer, and we were renting in Bridgehampton. And on Friday night, there's this restaurant called Almond in Bridgehampton.

[Bill Maher]

What year is this?

[Don Lemon]

This is 24 to 2015.

[Bill Maher]

2015.

[Don Lemon]

14 to 2015. 2015. And so I was renting, and then on Friday night, this restaurant called Almond, on Friday night, it's gay night. And so you go, everybody's there. All the gays that you would know. Famous gays. Not famous gays. Everybody.

[Bill Maher]

Other nights, it's. It's hetero, heterosexual. Boy, I feel bad for the guy who gets his days wrong.

[Don Lemon]

They do. That happens. And they walk in. Yes, it happens. And they're like, holy, what's going on?

[Bill Maher]

Really? Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

So I'd rented the year before that, but I didn't go to the bar or whatever because I was just kind of, like, getting used to whatever. So we rented in 2015, I'm like. I was single, you know, I was just starting cnn. I was like, you know, in prime time. It was great. It was life. And then so I was there one night and I met this guy. He had a boyfriend. He talked to me or whatever. So I met my. When I met my now husband, he had a boyfriend. I'm not a home wrecker. And so we became friends. And I had this. Is this going on too long?

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Don Lemon]

I had this inflatable paddleboard that I would take with me to the beach, and I couldn't get it back. This sounds so bougie. Because I got. I was. I would go to the Hamptons in a helicopter because I bought these things in a helicopter and I couldn't. It was too heavy for the helicopter. And he drove back because he was from. He actually grew up in the Hamptons.

[Bill Maher]

Damn, that dei.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, I know. So he grew up in the Hamptons. And he took my paddleboard in the car back to the city, and it sat in his apartment for a year.

[Bill Maher]

Wait, why did he take it?

[Don Lemon]

Because he was in a car. The weight was too heavy for the helicopter. And so he had a car. He drove it back. It sat in his apartment for a year. And I would see him at events, and he'd go, you got to get your paddleboard. I'm like, yeah, I'm so sorry.

[Bill Maher]

You can bring.

[Don Lemon]

He goes, ah, no big deal. And so then the next summer, I bought a house there. And so because his family is from there, he would start to come over to the house, and we became friends. And one day in the summer, he came over in the morning, we went for a run, and I said, you know, you're going to be my husband one day, right? He's like, wait, what? And I just had this sort of premonition thing. So he came over at like, 9 in the morning, and we went for a run. And then at 9 at night, he was still there. We had spent the day together, and he was still seeing someone. And I said, I'm not a homewrecker.

[Bill Maher]

Whatever.

[Don Lemon]

You're seeing somebody. I can't see you anymore because I'm starting to have feelings. And this is weird. I didn't realize it. And so he's like, okay. And then, like a month later, he broke up with his boyfriend. We went out on our first date.

[Bill Maher]

Sounds like you are a homewrecker on election night. Sounds exactly like what a home record is. No, I told him.

[Don Lemon]

I told him not to. It was his decision to break up with his boyfriend. We went on our first date, election night, 2016.

[Bill Maher]

Well, okay.

[Don Lemon]

When Trump was elected, that's exactly what.

[Bill Maher]

A home wrecker does. They say, I'm not a homer. I have feelings for you. And they plant that seed. And the guy's like, okay, I've been with this person for a while. It's kind of tired because we've been there for a while, and I'd really be trading up. And it's hot. I didn't know it's going to be hot. So. Yes. And that you should not feel guilty about that. Maybe you're right. That is human nature.

[Don Lemon]

I'm going to give you that. Maybe you're right.

[Bill Maher]

That's human nature. We're all in the jungle, okay. And we all know there's no, you know, there's no morality in love and war. We just are out there and so. Good. So. And it's lasted 10 years, obviously.

[Don Lemon]

Well, it was election night 2016, almost 10 years. And we got. We went on a date. It was funny because we were at this huge. Can I tell you about this party? Yeah. You know who had. Who was holding the party?

[Bill Maher]

P. Diddy? No.

[Don Lemon]

Close.

[Bill Maher]

Kanye?

[Don Lemon]

No. Think about one more movies.

[Bill Maher]

R. Kelly?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Don Lemon]

I'm hoping for the Harvey Weinstein even.

[Bill Maher]

Worse than those three.

[Don Lemon]

Seriously. So Harvey Weinstein invited me to a party, an election night watch party at Cipriani in New York City. And I wasn't on that night because that's when the political folks are all on. And so I said, sure, I'll go. And then I asked my now husband Tim if he wanted to go and he said sure. And so we walked in a little bit early. We met like downtown and we walked in and he was not used to going out with me and you know, didn't know. And he, you know, they expand the tables. They put like a board on top of the table, of course, and he sat down and kicked it over. That was our first night. And so then, you know, didn't that.

[Bill Maher]

Give you the ick?

[Don Lemon]

No, I mean it was. I was just like, ugh. He was embarrassed. But then, you know, who was there? Governor Cuomo was there. Miles Teller was there. Martha Stewart was there. Like just all the folks and they were all like. Many of the people there were like, oh, she's got. She's got Florida.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no.

[Don Lemon]

She's got pizza place. She's got that. And I'm looking at the CNN thing going. So Tim and I looked at each other and said, let's get the fuck out of here. So then we went to the Polo Bar to meet my agent. And then that was our first date. And that's where our reception was, at the Polo Bar.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I must say, I find this story very interesting.

[Don Lemon]

Boring.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no. Not boring at all. Inspiring. Because I'd always thought of gay men having sex or something. That happens immediately. This whole night. Hook up the first night. We don't have to leave the bar.

[Don Lemon]

That's lesbians. Lesbians. They hook up the first night and then the U haul happens the next day.

[Bill Maher]

There were people even at the height of the AIDS crisis who said, bath houses. I'm sorry, that's the whole point of this lifestyle. And I don't want to give that up. Even though AIDS was like a so of Damocles over their heads.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, can I tell you something that I think may surprise you, but I.

[Bill Maher]

Know I'm being facetious.

[Don Lemon]

No, no, no, not really. You're not wrong about that, no, there.

[Bill Maher]

Is that element in the gay world, but it is not the vast majority of gay people who, when they finally did pass gay marriage and we saw them showing up at courthouses and sweatshirts and looking schlubby like the rest of us, that's when America went, oh, okay, it's, it is just as everyone else.

[Don Lemon]

I think people should be having fun. And I've certainly, look, I have gone to heterosexual swingers clubs. So the heterosexuals are just as kinky as the gay people, maybe even more. But I think that that was a part of gay culture and I actually liked it when gay people were kind of, you know, a little bit different, a little bit of, you know what I mean? We were kind of dangerous or whatever. And now we've become so heteronormative. Yeah, it's boring sometimes. All of most of my friends have kids and so I understand that. And if you're two men and you're just having fun, I don't put a judgment on sex and what people do. As long as it's two consenting adults, I don't really give a shit.

[Bill Maher]

But there still is something about. To me, the look mostly of a gay man. I used to. One of my first jokes was about why are they. I would love to be mistaken for a gay man. Why are they better looking? And the joke was, you know, do you become gay and then get good looking or do great looking guys just look in the mirror and go, oh, I'm not wasting this on chicks.

[Don Lemon]

I think it's both. Now look at the competition as you said. So you gotta like take care of your body. You gotta, you know, you gotta look good if you're a gay man. There's a lot of competition.

[Bill Maher]

There's a certain look that like agents have a certain look. Don't you think? They really do. They spot em a mile a fucking way.

[Don Lemon]

They have the suit coat on and just leisure pants and the sneakers and the.

[Bill Maher]

I can't even put it in words, but it's just something, it's a good haircut. I don't know.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And then.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but you think gay men have a certain look.

[Bill Maher]

Better looking? Yes. You think they're better, like clean and like better skin. And I just think there's something maybe that is connected with whatever makes someone gay with the skin. I do, I, I do.

[Don Lemon]

And it's not a dermatologist.

[Bill Maher]

As someone who struggled with skin problems, seriously.

[Don Lemon]

But you know, I understand what you're saying. That's. Some people are gonna say he's being very, you know, sort of stereotypical or whatever.

[Bill Maher]

But because we come, they're generally better looking.

[Don Lemon]

The out ones are generally better looking.

[Bill Maher]

Right, good point.

[Don Lemon]

Because there are a lot of them that are not out and they're not generally better.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sure that's true, too.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. So I don't, I can't disagree with you on that.

[Bill Maher]

That's probably something from a bygone era that I, you know, I'm always trying to yell at people for zombie lies. That may be a zombie lie. You're right. But now, when I wrote that joke, people weren't out.

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, now people are out now. Absolutely.

[Don Lemon]

And no one. I don't think anyone gives a. I.

[Bill Maher]

Mean, look, nobody does.

[Don Lemon]

Well, there are certain people, like I. The criticism of me. If you read the comments on my channel or whatever. On social media, it's always something that's gay, he's a homo, it's whatever he's blowing.

[Bill Maher]

Children use whatever they have to get you if you're fat. Again, I don't think they even Jew. Whatever. They don't care that much about what it is. It's just a cudgel to hit you with. So if they can use that one, they will. It's, you know, I wouldn't trip on that. I mean, but do you read your social media a lot?

[Don Lemon]

No, but my. The guys send me like, oh, my gosh, he'll say, this one, this one was really good. This one wasn't so great. This one like, oh, my God, I can't believe the trolls on that. And then. But when I'm on the difference between, pardon me, being on linear television and doing what I'm doing, I see, I can see the audience. The numbers are there. It's in real time. It's not just minute to minute that you get the Nielsen ratings. It's in real time. So I can see how people are engaged. And I'm reading the comments from the people who are streaming with us at the same time. So, you know, it's much closer to the bone than television and it's much more real.

[Bill Maher]

And you do that. You follow it along like that.

[Don Lemon]

I follow it along, but I don't let the engagement determine what I'm talking about or what I think is important. Just because. Absolutely 100% you can.

[Bill Maher]

You really think you trust yourself that much to see what they're liking and not go with the likes?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, they didn't like what I said about Joe Biden during the election. They didn't like some of the things I said about Kamala Harris during the election, they didn't like that. I was interviewing people as I was going around the country during the election, and there were a lot of people telling me I heard a lot of Trump out there. And so I knew before everyone else, I'm hearing a lot of Trump. I contacted the campaign. I'm like, you guys have a problem, especially with black men. Never contacted me back. But I knew before that they were in trouble, and my subscribers didn't really like it. And I said, you may not like it. I want you to stick with me. But I'm not gonna tell you something just because I think you wanna hear it. I'm always gonna be honest with you. And a lot of the streamers and podcasters who are more progressive or to the left or center or whatever, they lost a lot of subscribers after the election. I didn't. It was the exact opposite. And I think that's because I was honest with my audience. So, yes, I can be honest.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, that. That's certainly my formula.

[Don Lemon]

It is your formula, but I don't.

[Bill Maher]

But, I mean, I would not trust myself.

[Don Lemon]

You wouldn't.

[Bill Maher]

You know, my. They had a billboard here.

[Don Lemon]

You're a ratings whore.

[Bill Maher]

I am the opposite. My billboard says, he's not in it for the likes. That's the catchword.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And, you know, I'm sure there were snarky people on the left who was like, yeah, that's right, Bill. You know, that's why we hate you. No, I mean, it's a way of saying, you can't buy me.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And that's. So if you're on that page, we need more of that.

[Don Lemon]

I am. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I appreciate the platform that you have. When people ask me, what do you want to do? What's your ultimate goal? And I said, I would like to have a platform like Bill Maher. I don't want to be Bill Maher. But where there's honesty, you said earlier, you know, you can't do that in television. I think folks in television now should start serving people what they want instead of what they think that they want. I mean, instead of what the bosses and the people in the C suite want.

[Bill Maher]

No, you can be honest on television. I'm totally. I'm roofing you. Oh. You know, you have no idea what's going to happen after this.

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Bill Maher]

Ding. I drink it. It's a way to make just regular sparkling water into tasty diet soda. Oh, God.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. So you were saying about linear television.

[Bill Maher]

And what I was.

[Don Lemon]

Is that water?

[Bill Maher]

That's tequila. Tequila.

[Don Lemon]

You're putting it in tequila?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Well, it's like if you mix it with Diet Coke, it would have its flavor to it. This just puts a flavor to it. You want some Jing? I drink it.

[Don Lemon]

I'll try it. I usually just like, you know, my.

[Bill Maher]

What are you drinking there? Nothing.

[Don Lemon]

Reposado Casa Azul. Reposado with some lime.

[Bill Maher]

Jesus, you are gay. Yeah, Reposado. What the fuck is that?

[Don Lemon]

It's a darker, smokier tequila than a blanco.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, no, you can. What you can do, you can be honest on television. What you can't do is veer from a conversation like we're having right now to the one of, oh, really?

[Don Lemon]

It tastes like a freaking 7 up. Now what did you do? Like a fan.

[Bill Maher]

Tough people like 7up. Here, dilute it with this. It's just too. It's just too.

[Don Lemon]

No, I would like this maybe if I'm drinking water during the day. I'm not. I don't think I necessarily want to put that in.

[Bill Maher]

I think. I think you'll like it after that.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, wait, no, I'm. I would prefer a sparkling. I'm going to do it sparkling.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. What were you saying? I'm saying you can be honest on tv. What you can't do is have a conversation, veer from the State of the Union address to what should we call a man's asshole. No, no, because that's life where it just flows. Where it flows and then it comes back and we talk. It's like there no agenda. I could have called this show no agenda, no notes, no, you know, I'm high. Whatever it was, that's what you can't do on tv.

[Don Lemon]

So I'm not saying. I'm not saying it should go in that. What I'm saying is, is that people should be more honest in their conversations and because in conversations people say dumb things, they make mistakes, and I don't think people should be canceled for that. I think that. I actually think in television they should be applauded for that because it makes a better tones.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, people should. But, you know, if shoulds and buts were beer and nuts, we'd have a hell of a party.

[Don Lemon]

But I also think that linear television would not be quite in the position that it is now with people who are unsubscribing or people who are cutting the cord if they actually had more interesting people on. More people like you and more people like me.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

That are. That. And they said we're not gonna cancel. We're not gonna. We're not gonna go for the woke left or the woke right. You know, there's a woke right. Right. Of course there's a woke right.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, totally. Who are there always was. They canceled Colin Kaepernick faster than anybody.

[Don Lemon]

The Trump canceled ap, the Associated Press, because they wouldn't call it the stupid Gulf of America.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, well, he threw him out of the press room. Me and Kent.

[Don Lemon]

Do you think it's kind of canceling them, Mr. Free Speech?

[Bill Maher]

No. I mean, who reads news? I mean, newspapers are kind of dead anyway. I mean, people reading Press is not the newspaper.

[Don Lemon]

I get. I get my stuff from the Associated Press. I have a respect for them.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, yeah, I do too. I just don't know. I mean, all I ever read about is how newspapers are dying. And, you know, I mean, again, the Times is doing well because they went with that model that I was describing before. How do our readers want to interpret this story and then write the story that way? That's the difference between the New York Times of today and 20 years ago. Don't you think?

[Don Lemon]

I'm glad you mentioned that, except I forgot about this earlier. But don't you think that's kind of your show? You're the interpreter on the show.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, but I'm not pretending to be a newspaper. It's an opinion show. It's a debate show. That's not a newspaper. If I was a newspaper, I would just try to. To keep it as much down the middle as I could. I give my opinion on everything. When the Democrats are as they were under Obama, I thought much more sane and not championing silly things. I was much more always on their side. Then they became crazy, woke about a lot of bullshit, and I wasn't going to hold my tongue like a lot of people did just because it, you know. Oh, it's our team. There's no teams. I'm on Team what's Real.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And I'm dealing with that right now all the time when I'm out. Like I was at the Vanity Fair Oscar party the other night.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my friend invited me. I didn't go. No, shooter. I wasn't.

[Bill Maher]

Why?

[Don Lemon]

I was in New York. Lee Daniel said, do you want to be my date to the US to the Vanity Fair? I've gone. I just didn't. I was in New York.

[Bill Maher]

What a dick.

[Don Lemon]

Should I have gone?

[Bill Maher]

Of course. It's why. It's so. Why? Because it's like this, this town. People think it's such a Party town, showbiz. It's not. This is like, the one weekend a year people party.

[Don Lemon]

I flew in on Monday night. It was so boring.

[Bill Maher]

I'm always amused. Like, every year. Somebody's always like, boy, what happened to the Vanity Fair party? What happened to it? Everybody came to it. That's what happened to it. Everybody comes to it. If you didn't see somebody there, it's because they didn't want to see you. Wait till the magazine comes out in two months and they have pictures. Everybody was there. It's one of the few times here in the petting zoo we call the Hollywood. Hollywood Zoo, you see all the stars in the same room. It's just fun. It just feels great. Everybody's, like, fucking dressed to the nines, you know, all the tension from the show is over. The winners are there, and they are beaming. And the losers, okay, they lost, but that fucking shit is over. Timothee Chalamet, it didn't look like he was suffering, you know? I mean, the chicks are dressed like crazy. They always turn up if. If you're a 10, you turn it up to 11 on Oscar night.

[Don Lemon]

Now you're making me feel bad. Yes.

[Bill Maher]

And you would have went with Lee Daniels. That's cool.

[Don Lemon]

Lee's a friend. He's good. He's a really good friend.

[Bill Maher]

You know what people would be very surprised to know about me if I. I once did one of those 25 things you don't know about me things. I've seen all the Tyler Perry movies.

[Don Lemon]

And I haven't.

[Bill Maher]

I haven't. I love that.

[Don Lemon]

I love Tyler, but I haven't seen all the movies. But you were mentioning. You were talking about the. I'm getting it now from the left. I'm getting it.

[Bill Maher]

Well, they're like, bill, what are we going to do? And my answer is, well, there's not much you can do. You lost. Elections matter. You lost all the branches of government, so what can you do? I mean, apropos of the speech the other night, show up, you know, with the paddles that you were very amusingly making fun of. And then some Elon muse. Some people wore pink. Yeah, like. And then some people wore, like, you. White for Ukraine. It's like, they look so disorganized. There's a way to do it. Weak.

[Don Lemon]

Weak. But there's a way to do it that they're not doing it. And I think they feel weak. And I also think the people. And look, again, I don't want to keep beating up on the Democrats, but I do Think I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent.

[Bill Maher]

I do. I want to keep beating up on them.

[Don Lemon]

I think that they should be the bulwark between us, of course, democracy, Right. And craziness. And they're not very good at it. I think that they have people in place who are not very good at leadership. Look, Hakeem Jeffries can hate me. People are mad at me. I don't think he's the person that should be leading the Democratic Party.

[Bill Maher]

You know what? Someone who I'm very close to, who is one of the savviest political people I know, said that exact thing.

[Don Lemon]

I just don't. I think behind the scenes, he's very good. He's very good at, I'm sure, negotia and coming up with a plan. I feel the same way about. I love Nancy Pelosi. I think she's a very smart woman. But I think that era of the Nancy Pelosi type in the Democratic Party is over. I think that this is the era of whether. And I didn't like her policies at first, and I'm not necessarily in love with her policies, but people love aoc. People love Jasmine Crockett. People love Eric Swalwell and the like. And I think that the Democratic Party should. Should put the people out there, who the people want. They should put the. The. The politicians out there, who the people want, who they're asking for, who are meeting the moment with the same energy.

[Bill Maher]

That they're not asking for aoc.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, they are the people you party with. No, no, no. People I party with don't like aoc.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, please.

[Don Lemon]

No, they don't at all.

[Bill Maher]

Well, most people don't, but it's very far left, this.

[Don Lemon]

Let me tell you why I'm saying that. Because aoc. The. Because people will vote for AOC and Donald Trump on the same ticket. Because they're authentic. No, because they're authentic.

[Bill Maher]

I don't think that. Don.

[Don Lemon]

I think you're wrong about that.

[Bill Maher]

What people like about people like Trump and Fetterman is there because it's irrelevant to her life.

[Don Lemon]

But you don't know her life.

[Bill Maher]

I know that being a gorgeous woman who I wouldn't even know was Hispanic, in a city that has a million Hispanics and does not treat them badly.

[Don Lemon]

That doesn't mean she doesn't struggle. That doesn't mean that she was set down.

[Bill Maher]

It implies it.

[Don Lemon]

But that doesn't mean that she was set down in Hispanic ghetto in the Bronx and had to deal with that growing up. And that she's in some working class family.

[Bill Maher]

It implies that. It implies that in some way she's behind the eight ball because of that. And it's just not true. And so I don't know.

[Don Lemon]

I don't know if she's behind the eight ball, but I don't think she's as privileged as many people who are in Congress right now.

[Bill Maher]

Is that privilege or not? She was a bartender.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, so I was a delivery. I was a delivery policies.

[Don Lemon]

But I'm saying sometimes, like, I just. Bill, like you don't agree with. With Donald Trump's policies.

[Bill Maher]

No, I'm not.

[Don Lemon]

But that's what the people want, some of them. Whether you like her or not, I don't like what she did with Amazon in New York, but I think AOC is an. She's a Democratic icon.

[Bill Maher]

Well, she's the wrong. If you think that's the direction that the country, the Democrats.

[Don Lemon]

I'm not saying the policies that she espouses, that's the direction, but I'm saying that you have to give the people who are. The people who are out front speaking for the party, not the people who are. If you think she's evolving.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, she's evolving as we all are.

[Don Lemon]

And she is moving into.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

She understands the game a little bit more. And if you notice, she is sort of becoming a sort of normal kind of Democrat in many ways. I think she's a very smart tactic and she's very smart.

[Bill Maher]

Let's get behind that. That another one who's doing that, Gavin Newsom, who I've always been a fan of and thought always could and should be president. And then I recently had a conversation with somebody and I said, gosh, I've always been hoping Gavin would move toward the center. And it doesn't seem to be happening. And then as if I had just manifested it, I see this headline somebody sent me a few days ago. Gavin Newsom. Name checked me in, how much he wanted to. How he wanted to move to the cause.

[Don Lemon]

He's starting a podcast.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

What he wants to talk to Cynthia, everybody.

[Bill Maher]

So I'm like, thank you, Jesus. This is the direction we want to go with. So if you can get AOC there, toward the middle. But you know, again, for the people that come up to me, Bill, what are we going to do? Well, you can't do much because you lost all the levers of power. What you can do, the thing that you can do is get on your side to not look crazier than him. That's all you can do now go back to your $800 foreplay dinner while you're worrying about how the world is going to end.

[Don Lemon]

What are you saying? You don't want to look as crazy as he does.

[Bill Maher]

That's the only thing liberals can do. Just don't be. Don't do shit that makes people go, oh, Trump, he's just crazy, but at least he doesn't. And. And then whatever the crazy story of the day is from.

[Don Lemon]

So you're making my point. The other side should. I don't. I don't believe that they should not be as crazy. Why not?

[Bill Maher]

Crazy in what way? Like the guy who was shaking his cane.

[Don Lemon]

You said the only thing that Democrats should be is not be as crazy as Donald Trump. But why not?

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Not have. Not. Not hold policy positions and beliefs and support silly things that are crazier. Not to give it away, but I guess it'll air before this does. Friday night. My thing that I was just working on is about the Oscars. I saw it started with a land acknowledgement. That's the kind of thing that makes people roll their eyes.

[Don Lemon]

The land acknowledgement. I missed that part. We'll listen.

[Bill Maher]

It's like when you, whatever, you're at some place like the Oscars, and before you can even start, you have to acknowledge that this is the land that we are standing on that really belongs to the proud Chumash people, you know? And it's like, as I said, either give it back or shut the fuck up. So, like, every day there's some little thing like that that the left does. And it may not be politicians. I mean, Democratic politicians weren't really for defund the police, but it got out there that that was what the liberal woke thing was. And so it just gets in people's heads. Oh, defund the police. That's not really something that's going to help my life a lot. I mean, I know people who are very liberal who said to me, sotto voce when Trump won. I'm not unhappy that the police are going to get their morale back. Yeah. You know, where you don't live.

[Don Lemon]

It'd be an interesting thing, though, you know?

[Bill Maher]

Where do you live?

[Don Lemon]

I live in New York.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, you live in New York. So we've had a really tough time out here with not just the fires, but the crime. Even before the fires, I'm hearing about it like, people who never, ever said, I don't really want to go to that restaurant, they demure now when you ask them to a restaurant in A part of town they consider a little too dangerous. I have not witnessed that in la. Or they don't wear watches when they go out. You know, they're in New York City. No, here.

[Don Lemon]

Here.

[Bill Maher]

You know, okay. They. They don't want to live like that. You know where they. I mean, there's been, like, robberies in broad daylight on Rodeo Drive. You know, where you just get this creepy feeling that, wow, the whole order is broken out and we elected a very different DA here. You know, like, we're gonna. We're gonna. Crime's gonna be illegal again here in LA was basically what he ran on.

[Don Lemon]

So I don't know if a lot of that. If I can disagree with you on, because this is where the conservative side of me comes out. Like, I think people should be tough on crime. As someone who has witnessed one of those people running out of the CVS or the pharmacy in a big bag, it is very disconcerting. And that should not happen. Happen. I wish. I should say I wish that would not happen, and it shouldn't happen. And so. But there are things that go beyond that that I think about, like, how do we help this person not having to feel like they need to go to rob a place. And I think for me, there are folks who think about those things just further, you know, beyond just like, what is the problem, but what is the solution? And I think for me, you're not gonna like this, but I think the party that's looking out for that now, whether they are terrible or doing it.

[Bill Maher]

The wrong way, I don't disagree.

[Don Lemon]

It's a Democratic Party.

[Bill Maher]

I don't disagree that we should look at the reason why that crime happens in the first place.

[Don Lemon]

So I think that.

[Bill Maher]

But it changes, I bet, when you have kids.

[Don Lemon]

But to get around. I'm glad that I think la. You said a da, A district attorney.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

Elected a district attorney that can go up against a liberal or whatever. Mayor, and that they can somehow.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Work it out. Right. They'll meet, they'll have a consensus, and it won't be in a grief fest. And so I think that that's good, actually.

[Bill Maher]

Do you have kids?

[Don Lemon]

I don't have kids that I know.

[Bill Maher]

About because, you see, it would be impossible with the whole penis in the. No, no.

[Don Lemon]

You act like I've never been with a woman. What are you talking about?

[Bill Maher]

I don't. Well, I. I assume a gay man hasn't.

[Don Lemon]

No, there are different levels of gay.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, so, like, you were not gay for a while, like, when you were young and figuring it out.

[Don Lemon]

So there's like a gay. I forget what the. But, like, the platinum is that you've never been with a woman. Like, and then there, you know, there's like a gold, a platinum and something. I don't know these actual things. But there are certain levels of gay.

[Bill Maher]

Wow, there's so many award shows in this town. But. But what? Okay, so you're. How old are you now?

[Don Lemon]

Should I tell my age?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, you look great. So it doesn't match a mood point.

[Don Lemon]

All right. I am 59 years old. I just turned awesome.

[Bill Maher]

You look amazing.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you.

[Bill Maher]

Tell you gay don't crack, but do I have that right? Okay. No, you look amazing for that. But. So when was the last year you had sex with a woman?

[Don Lemon]

No, it's been since the 90s.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Don Lemon]

Early 2000s. Okay. No, late 90s. Let's put it that way. It's been a while. But I've been with women, we'll say.

[Bill Maher]

Right around the Monica Lewinsky scandal. All just to give a.

[Don Lemon]

Perhaps Columbine or something like that.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, blow jobs were in the news.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And you. And you were like, hey, why not? Right? So you weren't a kid when you.

[Don Lemon]

Completely swore off in my 20s. I didn't swear. I didn't swear it off. I was just like, hey, there's something else I'd rather have. You know, the.

[Bill Maher]

I honestly never understood bisexuality. I'm sure I know it exists. And I know it's. Maybe it's more normal than me. I just never understood, like, yeah, maybe a guy that's. You know. Again, because I'm there on the spectrum. I'm way over here on the spectrum.

[Don Lemon]

Like, why don't you understand?

[Bill Maher]

When you're 70 and you've never been married. I've said this before. It's either because you don't like girls or you like them a lot.

[Don Lemon]

But I gotta tell you, I'm kind of gay. And I have been with women before, but I really like being alone. Doesn't mean I don't love my marriage, but I love. I love.

[Bill Maher]

So how do you handle that in a marriage, married?

[Don Lemon]

It's really tough for me. I gotta be honest. It's really tough for me. I could not agree more because I'm so used to. I didn't get married until.

[Bill Maher]

You gotta save up your charm.

[Don Lemon]

58 years old, when you see the.

[Bill Maher]

Person, you can't be charming every day of the year. You just can't.

[Don Lemon]

But you're your confirmed bachelor's. You said If a guy's 70s, either gay or. What'd you say?

[Bill Maher]

I'd say either you. Either you don't like girls or you like them a lot.

[Don Lemon]

Yes. Okay, so you're on the I like them a lot part.

[Bill Maher]

I do. I like them a lot.

[Don Lemon]

I. There could have been that element for me on the other side. That was part of it. But part of the biggest part of it is that I liked myself and I liked being alone. I loved living alone. But I also love having a husband. But there are times when I say.

[Bill Maher]

Did his family accept you readily and lovingly.

[Don Lemon]

You mean, did I accept them?

[Bill Maher]

I mean, okay, yeah, sure. That too. I think it was an insult to just ask that. That.

[Don Lemon]

I'm just saying, yes, of course. And I would not.

[Bill Maher]

Because he's a white guy. Right.

[Don Lemon]

I would not have expected anything else. It was just a question. But yeah, he's a white guy. He's a white.

[Bill Maher]

I'm assuming the white people are bad in that question.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, so I'm defending my in laws.

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Don Lemon]

So listen, I think, I think, you know, my husband is a. His family's devout Catholics. He's an Irish Catholic. Church, Mass, whatever. Someday, like, these are really great people. Like, during the pandemic, one of his family members filmed the Mass because he couldn't go to church and videotaped it. Right? So they're, they're, they're like. They're a family that is entrenched.

[Bill Maher]

What a good idea. For a silly superstition.

[Don Lemon]

For a silly superstition. So, yeah, they accepted me. They're amazing.

[Bill Maher]

That's great.

[Don Lemon]

They never even. I don't look, they never said to me that they thought twice about it. But I consider them my family and I. I'm as close to them as I am them. My blood family.

[Bill Maher]

But I mean, if they were bigots, they'd have like two reasons to hate you, you know, you gotta, you gotta give.

[Don Lemon]

It's the least bill.

[Bill Maher]

You gotta give them credit.

[Don Lemon]

It's a weird thing though, right?

[Bill Maher]

They got past everything.

[Don Lemon]

The gay black part is like the least of it. There are other things that they should be. Like that guy. Fuck that guy. We don't want him going out.

[Bill Maher]

Are you a lot older than your.

[Don Lemon]

I'm just. I'm making up. But like, I think the gay and the black part is like, not as agree.

[Bill Maher]

What is your age difference? Difference?

[Don Lemon]

19 years. Almost 20 years.

[Bill Maher]

Wow. So he's 78. Okay, all right, so 20 years. So it's okay when you do it. But I'm a pervert what, you think you're a pervert? No, but people say that when you. When you're with women who are not your age.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but who cares?

[Bill Maher]

I certainly don't. If I cared, it would have been evident by now.

[Don Lemon]

I don't care. If I had cared, I would not be married to who I'm married to and would not have the age difference, but.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I hope the next time your. Your guy is out here with you that you'll have dinner.

[Don Lemon]

We'll come over. We love we.

[Bill Maher]

I'm only going to a restaurant.

[Don Lemon]

I'm only a few blocks from you. It took me three minutes.

[Bill Maher]

Let's not say where I live.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, sorry. I mean, this is. I'm sorry, but, I mean, this is Bel Air.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, this is, you know, we're in the Los Angeles area. We're in an underscore. Don't put that in. Sorry. Everybody can find out anything. I mean, they could have a drone over had.

[Don Lemon]

I seen your house online. You talked about it. You showed pictures when you couldn't get the solar panels. All kinds of. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Anyway, thanks, man. This is such a fun.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my gosh. Really? Did you enjoy this?

[Bill Maher]

Well, we were here for, like, two hours, so I must have.

[Don Lemon]

I can be a little, you know, stand up tall, extra random.