Jon Cryer | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jon Cryer on Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Information

• Title: Jon Cryer | Club Random with Bill Maher
• Host: Bill Maher
• Guest: Jon Cryer
• Release Date: January 5, 2025
• Description: In this engaging episode of "Club Random," Bill Maher sits down for an hour-long, one-on-one conversation with actor Jon Cryer. Moving beyond politics, the duo delves into a variety of topics ranging from Hollywood experiences to personal philosophies, providing listeners with insightful and candid discussions.

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1. Reconnecting: Past and Present in Hollywood

Bill Maher and Jon Cryer kick off their conversation by reminiscing about their shared history in Hollywood, particularly their time together on Maher's former show, "Politically Incorrect."

• Jon Cryer: "I feel like we've both been in Hollywood a long time. I got here in the late forties." [01:01]

• Bill Maher: "We did 2,000 shows. God, that was a lot." [02:15]

They discuss the challenges and dynamics of producing a high-volume show, reflecting on memorable interactions with guests, including a particularly difficult encounter with an anti-immigration guest.

• Bill Maher: "I remember one older woman who was very anti-immigration... I zinged her a couple of times." [02:54]

2. Politics and Immigration: Blame and Responsibility

The conversation shifts to the state of American politics, with Jon Cryer expressing his frustrations regarding the Democratic Party's handling of immigration and its impact on recent elections.

• Jon Cryer: "I feel like my conscience is very clear that I told you... that kind of stuff is what lost the election to the Democrats." [07:54]

• Bill Maher: "I think they would probably disagree. The people walking in probably felt like it was a little harder." [03:48]

Cryer argues that the Democrats' perceived over-correction on immigration allowed Trump to regain traction, while Maher attributes the electoral outcomes to broader issues like inflation and societal unrest.

• Bill Maher: "I think a lot... They hate inflation, they hate riots, and they hate trans people." [08:32]

3. Media Framing and Public Perception

Both hosts critique how media outlets frame political and social issues, highlighting a disconnect between reality and media portrayal.

• Jon Cryer: "There’s watch. They just, I mean, you see, they’re walking through and the water guys are just watching them do it. They’re just watching them walk past." [04:16]

• Bill Maher: "So 60 minutes arguably is the liberal media." [04:11]

They discuss the limitations of mainstream media in accurately representing complex issues like immigration.

4. Transgender Policies: A Divisive Topic

A significant portion of the dialogue centers around transgender issues, particularly the differences between U.S. and European approaches to gender affirmation and the societal implications.

• Jon Cryer: "America is the only country that does transgender policy the way we do now. We used to be closer to Sweden." [23:00]

• Bill Maher: "The biggest, the most prevalent gender affirming surgery is breast removal tissue removal for cisgender male boys." [23:59]

They debate the ethics and effectiveness of current transgender policies, with Cryer expressing concerns about self-diagnosis in youth and Maher emphasizing the complexities involved in medical decisions.

• Jon Cryer: "They don’t pretend there isn’t also a default setting... It could be anything." [31:46]

• Bill Maher: "Parents who have kids who are going through severe gender dysphoria have very limited options." [27:18]

5. Personal Anecdotes: Relationships and Marriage

Shifting gears, Cryer and Maher share personal stories about marriage, relationships, and the societal expectations surrounding them.

• Jon Cryer: "I think the main problem with marriage is that it’s hard to be with the same human being." [61:53]

• Bill Maher: "I loved being married to my wife. It simplifies life." [62:28]

They discuss the challenges of maintaining long-term relationships in a rapidly changing social landscape, with Cryer opting for independence and Maher valuing companionship.

6. Reflections on Historical Events and "The Man Who Calculated Death"

Bill Maher introduces his produced podcast, "The Man Who Calculated Death," recounting a compelling story involving Operation Paperclip and the ethical dilemmas of bringing former Nazis to the United States.

• Bill Maher: "Suzanne had to go on this journey, rediscovering her family's history and understanding what the family went through." [50:08]

• Jon Cryer: "It's a fascinating story." [50:34]

They explore the moral implications of Operation Paperclip and its long-term effects on American scientific advancements, highlighting the complex interplay between ethics and national interests.

7. Hollywood Stories: Interactions with Peers and Industry Insights

The hosts dive into anecdotes about their interactions with fellow actors and industry figures, touching upon the struggles and personal battles faced by those in the limelight.

• Bill Maher: "Charlie was using again. He started having these things... he started lashing out." [75:08]

• Jon Cryer: "He is Houdini. The fact that he could get a Super Bowl at..." [81:59]

They discuss the personal toll of fame, the challenges of maintaining professionalism amidst personal crises, and the lasting impact of these experiences on their careers.

8. Closing Thoughts: Democracy and Future Outlook

In their concluding remarks, both Maher and Cryer emphasize the importance of protecting democracy and addressing societal issues with honesty and introspection.

• Jon Cryer: "My issues are the environment and democracy." [74:16]

• Bill Maher: "I believe the fight now is to retain something of a democracy, something of a civil democracy." [66:37]

They express concern over rising authoritarianism and the need for citizens to engage thoughtfully in preserving democratic values.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jon Cryer: "I think the whole country even, unless you're like, stupid woke. I hope you're not." [03:14]

• Bill Maher: "This is the one Club Random." [00:44]

• Jon Cryer: "You love where I am, but I will never have that." [82:03]

• Bill Maher: "We embraced you." [18:34]

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Club Random" offers a candid and multifaceted conversation between Bill Maher and Jon Cryer, navigating through personal histories, political landscapes, and societal debates. Their dialogue provides listeners with a blend of humor, critical analysis, and heartfelt reflections, making it a compelling listen for both fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Jon Cryer]

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[Bill Maher]

Chuck said, you need to get help. Charlie said, no, I'm not going to. He said, well, no, you know what he did was he said, I'm going to do it for a week. The woke people that you're really mad at, it's me. I want to put that face on it. That's the. This is the One Club Random.

[Jon Cryer]

John.

[Bill Maher]

Why, hello, how are you? Why, hello?

[Jon Cryer]

Because I asked you. That's why.

[Bill Maher]

It's meant as just like a placeholder. Like, why, comma, hello? Like that.

[Jon Cryer]

I feel like you've been dodging me.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, really? Really.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, I mean, what makes you feel like that? I don't feel like that because, you know, I feel like we both been in Hollywood a long time. I mean, I got here in the late forties.

[Bill Maher]

You too, right? Yes, I remember back in the. In the silent.

[Jon Cryer]

Shared an apartment with Bob Mitchum for a while, didn't you? For a while.

[Bill Maher]

But he did way too much. I was like, I can't handle this.

[Jon Cryer]

Actually, he was busted for marijuana.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sure, you know, all kinds.

[Jon Cryer]

That was very rare. That was in 1948. Robert Mitchum was busted for marijuana. Yeah. That was not something that you ever saw. I mean, I wasn't alive.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

For the kids out there, they're like, oh, yes. Probably took that.

[Bill Maher]

Who's this Bob Mitchum guy?

[Jon Cryer]

1948. That sounds about right for these guys. They're like 100.

[Bill Maher]

Why? Back in my.

[Jon Cryer]

I just feel like we've both been here a long time and yet our paths never cross.

[Bill Maher]

Our paths did cross.

[Jon Cryer]

Like I say, we're good friends.

[Bill Maher]

On this here show, Politically Incorrect, which I did a couple of times. That does not count. I guess for you it does nothing. Apparently. Apparently it was a meaningless time.

[Jon Cryer]

That was the 90s. We were actually alive in the 90s. Kids and working, apparently.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

But, you know, first of all, the 90s is a long time ago, and we did 2,000 shows. God, that was a lot. Yeah. Five shows a night. Nine years. It's a lot of shows, and it's.

[Bill Maher]

A lot of people yammering about their politics. I mean, it all blends into this political Mush for a while, I'm sure.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, time plus, like 2,000 shows, times four people on each show, that's 8,000 people. Yeah, yeah, but what was your memory of it? Were you happy with it? Was it fun?

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I had a good time. I had a good time.

[Jon Cryer]

I vaguely remember you doing well.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, I remember. I remember one older woman who was very anti immigration and I remember she drove me batty, but I feel like I zinged her a couple of times. I was like, you're an old lady. I think that was the height of my repartee.

[Jon Cryer]

Who looks stupid now? Yes, exactly. No, I mean, I think the whole country even, unless you're like, stupid woke. I hope you're not.

[Bill Maher]

But, you know, it is Hollywood somewhat stupidly woke.

[Jon Cryer]

Okay. The whole country was like. I mean, I think the biggest issue for the election, one of the biggest ones was Democrats pointlessly, totally just punted on immigration and let anybody who wanted to walk in for three and a half years did. And, you know.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I think they would probably disagree. The people walking in probably felt like it was a little harder.

[Jon Cryer]

No, no, no. Actually, actually There's a great 60 Minutes piece on it. Where the border. I mean, you don't get 8 million people here by making it difficult. But there's watch. They just, I mean, you see, they're walking through and the water guys are just watching them do it. They're just watching them walk past. You never saw that.

[Bill Maher]

I did not see that.

[Jon Cryer]

See, that doesn't get in the liberal media. That's the problem is the bubbles we live in.

[Bill Maher]

So 60 minutes arguably is the liberal media. So I, I don't think that.

[Jon Cryer]

Right, but, but 60 minutes play. 60 minutes is still a show that I think, you know, can. Not as consistent as it used to. But they do things like that. They did. They also did a great piece some years ago about a woman in London who was in the Muslim neighborhoods. And you know, they're screaming at her because she's wearing a skirt and stuff like that. And, you know, the point of it was, you know, there are places in Western civilizations that are like, run not by Western standards. And that doesn't mean they're just different.

[Bill Maher]

Well, yeah, but I mean, there are cultural enclaves everywhere, you know.

[Jon Cryer]

Right. But we should agree that women should be able to wear what they want.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

If you don't agree with that, then you're not a liberal to begin with. Well, call me a crazy liberal, but I think women should have freedom.

[Bill Maher]

I agree as well. Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

I Agree as well, but they don't in these neighborhoods. It was the 60 Minutes piece that they did.

[Bill Maher]

One could argue that, that women don't have the freedom to dress where they are in dress how they want to dress in many places. They used to get cat called all the time. They used to. You know, there was.

[Jon Cryer]

Used to.

[Bill Maher]

Well, they.

[Jon Cryer]

We're talking about now. Well, yeah, used to. A lot of shit used to happen. But what's going on now in the world? Would you really want to have your wife live in Gaza or any place.

[Bill Maher]

Where, I mean war torn strip, even before, even before the war where she.

[Jon Cryer]

Would have to cover up?

[Bill Maher]

Well, again, that's not, that's not. I don't live there. I'm not. That's not my culture, you know.

[Jon Cryer]

But yeah. And you won't judge it?

[Bill Maher]

I'm not gonna judge it, no. But again, this is not a. That's crazy.

[Jon Cryer]

Woke to me. That's where it all went off the rails when we became so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance. I mean you would never allow something like that to happen in this country. If they proposed a law tomorrow at the LA City council, women have to cover their face when they go out. I assume you'd be against that.

[Bill Maher]

Well, yes, I would. But again, you know, there are, there are all. You know, again, this is a long, long subject that, that we stumbled onto. We stumbled onto. Exactly. And you know, I, I also, you know, this was started with the immigration which, you know, I don't feel like demonizing immigrants and migrants and saying that you want to deport millions of people. I think the history of mass deportations is horrifying. But there's a.

[Jon Cryer]

Okay, but, but we weren't talking about deportations. Of course. That's horrifying.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

And an overcorrection. What we were talking about was letting Democrats. Too many. Too many people in to begin with.

[Bill Maher]

But too many people. And, and, and what? Well, again, I. This is going to be a long conversation that we probably. Is this how you want to spend your time?

[Jon Cryer]

I never have any.

[Bill Maher]

You've done 2,000 episodes of politically Incorrect.

[Jon Cryer]

I never have any.

[Bill Maher]

And you're still going down this.

[Jon Cryer]

I never have any plan for this show.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, okay.

[Jon Cryer]

Plainly.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, clearly. Clearly.

[Jon Cryer]

So yeah, if you don't want to talk about that politics at all. Well, I shouldn't because I really started this podcast to get away from it. So you're right, I kind of fucked up.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

But I don't know, sometimes people say things that trigger me and of course we just had the election. And I feel like my conscience is very clear. I warned everybody about Trump and then I warned them. Then I warned them about what would get him reelected, which was stupid wokeness, which is what got him reelected. So I feel my conscience is very clear that I told you and I told you and I told you and I lost fans for it. You know, lots of the super woke that, like, I'm not. I'm not woke enough for them. Yeah. But like, I think I had it right. Like, that kind of stuff is what lost the election to the Democrats. It's in all, maybe part of it.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know. I think a lot.

[Jon Cryer]

They have polling on it. It's.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I think it's inflation. I think Americans hate inflation.

[Jon Cryer]

That's certainly what they hate.

[Bill Maher]

Inflation. They hate riots and they hate black women.

[Jon Cryer]

They tend.

[Bill Maher]

And they hate trans people.

[Jon Cryer]

Oh, God, John, we're not gonna.

[Bill Maher]

They just spent hundreds of millions. They don't hate humanizing trans people. And that is disgusting.

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah. We shouldn't talk politics.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. We shouldn't.

[Jon Cryer]

We shouldn't.

[Bill Maher]

Great. I don't. We don't have to.

[Jon Cryer]

And this, you know, I mean, I have this kind of relationship with people on the right also who like. Yeah, it's just gonna take so long to even have this discussion. And I want just like, I would like to deprogram them. I feel like there's things that don't get in your bubble on the left that I would love to deprogram, but it's probably not the place to do it.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. But, you know, you can try if you, if that's how you want to spend your leisure hours. I mean, deprogramming. Ducky, there's. There's a spin off. There's the spin off. But, but I, you know, I feel like the immigration argument gets sidetracked because people just assume that there's a lot of generalizations about immigrants that dehumanize them and are untrue. You are mad that they let that many immigrants in because you think they what, increase crime? Because they don't. Because they increase our. They decrease wages. Well, no, they don't. There's a whole bunch of arguments that anti immigration people make. And you say, okay, Democrats left the game.

[Jon Cryer]

I'm not an anti immigration people.

[Bill Maher]

So you say. What I said was, well, wait a minute. So you're the one saying Democrats are letting in immigrants? And you know, they just did. They punted it. Okay. You're absolutely right. Immigration did go up during those years.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, asylum. They changed the definition of asylum. And they immediately reversed Trump's like, stay in Mexico or wait in Mexico or something.

[Bill Maher]

He had a different chill out in Mexico.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, chill out in here.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, just fucking chill, man. Wait there.

[Jon Cryer]

And we were still, you know, letting in as we should. We are a nation of immigrants and we need immigrants.

[Bill Maher]

There you go.

[Jon Cryer]

But most Americans felt, including lots of Democrats and people of color. And he won the Latino vote by half. You know, come on, man. Like, at a certain point, everybody was around the idea that, okay, immigration, fine, but it has to be somewhat orderly and not anyone.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

And again, an asylum had a certain specific meaning which went up in the air. They over, they overcorrected.

[Bill Maher]

I, you know, you could be right. I don't know. Yeah. But I also feel like obviously you can say Democrats took too long to address it, but then they did and Trump, of course, killed it, you know, so he doesn't care about that. And again, you've been very, You've been outspoken.

[Jon Cryer]

That's true too.

[Bill Maher]

And I, he did. I appreciate that, by the way, for you, that you were being outspoken. I appreciate that you lost fans. You know what? They needed more free time. It's better that they don't watch your show.

[Jon Cryer]

It actually is. I'm sorry, it actually is. Because they're, you know, here's how I know they changed and not me. It used to be the conservatives, the Jerry Falwell types who you would do a stick up their ass joke about. Now it's the woke. They're the ones with the stick up their ass. They're the ones who don't have a sense of humor. They're the ones who are too sensitive. They're the ones, you know, marching for Hamas, doing things like that.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, again, I think conflating people marching for, you know, to not have Israelis, the, you know, the IDF carpet bombing is different than marching for Hamas. And yes, Hamas is a, is a terrorist organization. They are a mafia organization. I, you know, I do not support them in any way. Well, again, you know, wow, Ducky. Ducky is not on our side. This is crushing to our movement. This is. We've lost Ducky. But, but my point being that, that, you know, conflating, you know, those two. And obviously there are, there are outrages on the right and there are outrages on the left and the, the right wing media ecosystem, you know, is, is just a constant outrage engine and constant, constant. And that is, that is very pernicious to America, to, you know, having a nation.

[Jon Cryer]

So I was only watching Msnbc not as bad. I mean, the right wing is definitely more dangerous because they don't believe in conceding elections. Yes, we are, we are already past what I called even before he won the first time, a slow moving coup. Because when one side concedes, as the Democrats just did, and one side we know would not. Yes, you're already past democracy. You are already. I mean, they make it sound like, oh, you know, we had a smooth election. Yeah, smooth when they win, that's not good enough for me. It has to be smooth when whoever wins.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, I agree.

[Jon Cryer]

So I have this in perspective. I think so. But what drives them crazy? The reason why they are willing to do these basically traitorous extra constitutional things like not concede elections is because they think the left is so crazy that whatever they have to do to retain power is worth it. Because if the left takes over, they will destroy life as we know it. I don't think that's true. But when you see some of the things that the left has championed lately, you do wonder. And like I said on my show last week, you lost a crazy contest to an actual crazy person.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, that's funny, but I disagree that he's a crazy. No, you're right. I agree that he's crazy.

[Jon Cryer]

And they lost the contest.

[Bill Maher]

And you're right. And they lost the contest. So, yeah, it's funny and you're right, but I'm gonna reel that back in just because.

[Jon Cryer]

It'S interesting to watch you having seen you so much on television that you like. I'm not saying you didn't need the script, but I see that you just, you know, you just are funny. Like with the timing and the thing, even without a script.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, well, thank you. And you too.

[Jon Cryer]

But that's all I have. I'm not an actor.

[Bill Maher]

Ah, got it.

[Jon Cryer]

See, I never have a script, except the one I write, but. And it's not this kind of script and actors are not, it's not in the job requirement to actually be funny, you know, but, you know, you just have that thing, you know, the way you, you play off something and then.

[Bill Maher]

Well, that's kind of you to say no.

[Jon Cryer]

I'm sure that's why you've had the career you've had.

[Bill Maher]

I've, I've been, I've been lucky and had a. Had a lot of great, great experiences and, and this is, you know, it's with the, the industry sort of figuring out what it is again, you know, you know, it's, it, it makes me grateful for the, for all the opportunities I've had.

[Jon Cryer]

I think you were lucky. Being born the person you were who had that timing.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

And that quick mind, that was the lucky part. I don't think the career itself was lucky. I think, you know, show business is full of bullshit, but I've always thought the cream rises to the top. Well, it's for a company. There's a lot of bullshit in the middle and anyone can be a success for two years or something. But careers that last, that doesn't happen unless there's something that, you know is connecting and they're hitting the ball, you know, they're consistently hitting.

[Bill Maher]

Well, thank you. Thank you. And I. And I. I've loved. I've loved the vast majority of it. This is the down slide. Right.

[Jon Cryer]

Right here on this show.

[Bill Maher]

This is the moment that it's all curdling. I was doing great up until this moment. No, I'm actually enjoying myself a great deal.

[Jon Cryer]

Hey, we can cut all the political part out of it if you want.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, no, I'm not comfortable. Whatever you're comfortable with, I'm happy to talk. Actually, one of the reasons that I wanted to. That I'm happy to talk about it a is it's terrifying time in our history. You know, unfortunately, it is the, you know, the. The Supreme Court has removed the guardrails in a terrifying way. Now the Republicans agree. Don't have. There's no meaningful resistance. You know, there was in the first term, there was a certain normalcy bias that they had, but I gutted the.

[Jon Cryer]

Left like a fish last week.

[Bill Maher]

Thanks you.

[Jon Cryer]

Some of the woke people who are no longer fans would have hated.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

Zillions of other people loved it because they deserved it. But I'm just bringing this up to say the ending, concluding remarks after I told them that the Democratic Party had turned into a Portlandia sketch again, I.

[Bill Maher]

Felt like they tacked to the right quite a bit in this.

[Jon Cryer]

They tacked the right on immigration, Hollywood in the bubble, blue sky.

[Bill Maher]

Dude, you're a man of the people, Bill. Is that it? Much more. Oh, really?

[Jon Cryer]

You're part of the Hollywood community that is embraced. I am not.

[Bill Maher]

Huh.

[Jon Cryer]

And that's okay.

[Bill Maher]

I disagree. We embrace you. No, I, I almost literally embraced you when you came in the room. I. I don't. I don't agree. I do not agree.

[Jon Cryer]

We won't get off on that. Okay. But. But we will get off. Produced by Chuck Lawrence. Actually, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but this is also a show because what do you want on A show conflict.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I mean, I'll take it.

[Jon Cryer]

You did it like, where you were, you know, with pussyhound guy.

[Bill Maher]

Sure. That was. That's a. You could call him that.

[Jon Cryer]

And that may be why you and I, our paths never crossed, because I was more Charlie Sheen for many years.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, really?

[Jon Cryer]

Well, out. I mean, never got married. You're married?

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

No kids. You know, I would be out at places you probably weren't out at.

[Bill Maher]

Probably not.

[Jon Cryer]

Although I think I caught you out of the corner of my eye at one of Diddy's freak offs.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you know, but you were baked. I had to. Had to swing by. No, I never met the man. Wish him the best, did he?

[Jon Cryer]

You never met him?

[Bill Maher]

I've never met him. Yeah, I, I consider myself lucky. Never met Jeffrey Epstein either.

[Jon Cryer]

Wouldn't it be funny if he got out of prison? And they said, how was it in there? He said, you know, the only thing that saved me was we watch reruns of Two and a Half Men every night.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, that would. That was sh.

[Jon Cryer]

Knight told me Politically Incorrect. Really? He watched it every night in prison.

[Bill Maher]

Huh.

[Jon Cryer]

And I'm guessing it's a communal tv.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

It's like, who gets to rule? It was like the old.

[Bill Maher]

Gets to pick that.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, I'm guessing Suge Knight probably had more. You're right.

[Bill Maher]

He probably has more cred.

[Jon Cryer]

But you and I, in a prison.

[Bill Maher]

Movie, I think that's what the public is yearning for.

[Jon Cryer]

And we're like, we're escape. Remind me of gun battle. And we're doing that thing in movies where they do. Where they have snappy dialogue in between.

[Bill Maher]

Man, it's a Butch and Sundance moment. Who are those guys? Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

That's. That's, you know, like bad boys. You know, like, I told you not to talk to my sister. Really? In the middle of the gunfight?

[Bill Maher]

I'm sure when you're afraid for your life, that's when the quips really, really kick in. I'm sure the Noel Coward in you comes out at that moment.

[Jon Cryer]

Exactly.

[Bill Maher]

But no, yeah, I guess our, Our Hollywood paths did not cross. But, you know, again, I enjoyed coming on your show, and, And I do. You know, I, I, I, I understand why a lot of actors don't want to talk about politics. I get it. You know, because as an artist, you want people to just enjoy your art, you know, and I, and I still enjoy. There's plenty of people whose politics I strongly disagree with, but I still enjoy their art. I mean, there's John Voight movies that I will love till the day I die. Because he's an amazing actor, you know.

[Jon Cryer]

And he's not a monster.

[Bill Maher]

Because he's not a monster. No, I know him, actually. I mean, I've met him and I'm all for Troy's asking about my mom, you know, in a nice way. Don't worry, I'm not casting aspersions. He was like, how's your mother? Oh, well, John, she's fine. But anyway, I apologize.

[Jon Cryer]

No, but just finishing what I was saying before about. Yes, I gutted them, but only so I could get to the end where I said I'm mad at the Democrats because the issues that are important to me because that's always a big thing in elections. What issues are important to Bill, Mark? To you, the voter? My issues are democracy and the environment. And now because the Democrats did what I told them not to do and went to crazy town way too often now. You blew it. You blew it. You blew it.

[Bill Maher]

I did not. But go ahead.

[Jon Cryer]

Everything. So I have no one to champion and defend my issues.

[Bill Maher]

But I would say democracy in the inside. I would say all of the wokeness that outraged you so much was Republican framing. Was right wing media framing that. I mean, again, again, yes, I am telling you this. I am.

[Jon Cryer]

Yes, that is not framing.

[Bill Maher]

That is the case.

[Jon Cryer]

I do this for a living.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

I have a whole staff to vet this. I'm very suspicious of everything from the left or the right. So if you're telling me that I've been hoodwinked.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, no, I'm telling you I've been hoodwinked.

[Jon Cryer]

I haven't.

[Bill Maher]

I think everybody, everybody deals with framing in different ways. You can either deal with the frame and say, no, I'm afraid you're wrong, which I've seen you do. You know, you say, you can, you know, or you can say, wait, I don't. But I don't even believe in the framing. I disagree with the whole framing of the question.

[Jon Cryer]

I believe in facts. I believe, for example, we're going to get into this now. Okay, but like, America is the only country that does transgender policy the way we do now. We used to be closer to Sweden.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sorry, you got to be more specific.

[Jon Cryer]

Kids can, you know, what do you call gender affirmation? Can. Okay, have the operation.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, you understand, first of all that the, the biggest, the, the most prevalent gender affirming surgery is breast removal tissue removal for cisgender male boys.

[Jon Cryer]

Ok, but.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, but, but the reason I'm bringing it up is because if people are okay with. With. You know, people are always saying, we don't want young people making those decisions for, you know, lifelong decisions when they're still very young. I mean, that. That seems to be what people are.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, that's where Europe, where all the liberal countries that we used to be aligned with on this issue a few years ago. We are not just. I'm just saying let's not even get into the details. Let's just get into the fact. Just start with the fact that America does this in a way nobody else does. That doesn't mean. I'm not saying it's necessarily definitely wrong, although I do think it is. But no other country does. Self diagnosis by children, no age limit.

[Bill Maher]

That is.

[Jon Cryer]

That.

[Bill Maher]

That's not what's occurring.

[Jon Cryer]

That is what is occurring.

[Bill Maher]

It's not occurring. By the way, the thing you're talking about is thing called the Dutch protocol, which obviously started in Holland.

[Jon Cryer]

Yes, I'm familiar.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Okay, so Europe. So you're saying US doesn't use the things that Europe does, but which they abandoned. Well, no, they did not abandon it.

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

No. And I. And. And. And we can argue about the cast review as well. I'm aware of it. Right. Yes. Which. Which did not. Which its conclusions did not match its own data. But. Okay, we'll talk about that later. If you're. If you're. If you're open to that.

[Jon Cryer]

That's true.

[Bill Maher]

About the weeds. Okay, but see, that's what I'm saying is the truth is in the weeds, dude. And the truth.

[Jon Cryer]

Audience too. In the weeds.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, it's. And. And maybe for me, at this point, because I don't have the cast report right in my mind, many people who are saying, what is that? A British woman who is a pediatrician and also was this field of study.

[Bill Maher]

There was a big controversy about.

[Jon Cryer]

She did a report.

[Bill Maher]

Nhs. Yes, about the nhs transgender care. And unfortunately, you know, the NHS is under a lot of scrutiny for many things because, you know, national health care is. Is often very controversial because people have to prioritize very specific care for specific people. It's hard to do that in a governmental way. Correct. But there was a lot of people saying that kids who were going through gender dysphoria were not getting enough care before they were making lifelong decisions. And that's a concern. Absolutely. But the report said that they were actually getting enough care, but they, as a society, were using it as a way to say, we don't want this to even be a possibility for people under 18. And so at any rate. Right.

[Jon Cryer]

And that's too far. And, like, it's a shame that we can't ever just meet in the middle of what's common sense, like Trump. I see. They're like, they're not letting somebody use the bathroom.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, it's like, it's just, again, just, can we just not do stupid on either side?

[Bill Maher]

But you know what I'm saying is that parents who have kids who are going through severe gender dysphoria have very limited options to begin with. And they are usually trying to think about the survival of their child and so limiting what they have access to when there actually is an enormous amount of statistical evidence that supported the Dutch protocols. Limit. I think it's wrong to limit their. For government to limit what they feel is the appropriate medical treatment.

[Jon Cryer]

There are cases where it is appropriate, I think.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, okay.

[Jon Cryer]

I think this is the standard liberal position. And then there's like, the people who won't admit that some of this is social contagion. Some of this is just a TikTok trend that got out of hand.

[Bill Maher]

I don't agree.

[Jon Cryer]

And that's okay. And that's. And that's what friends are for.

[Bill Maher]

Okay?

[Jon Cryer]

To be able to come to it and go, okay, we've elucidated our points enough. People get where we're coming from, and they just, you know, they'll trust me in this town, everybody, you'll be the big champion. You own Bill Maher, because they just want to agree with you. And my take on this just as like, super friend to friend now, is just like, the people in this town, they just want to be warriors, social justice warriors. So they're just always looking for a cause. And it's so much more often about them than the cause itself. Not that they're not sincere about stuff, but, like, what bugs Dave Chappelle so much about the trans thing? I think it's the fact that they want to make it the social just issue of their generation, and it just doesn't compare. At this time of year, I like to look back on all the amazing memories I have from 2024. Like another year I didn't get engaged. Awesome. But that's just me. Maybe you are so in love that you are ready to do something about it, like get engaged, you big softy. And if you are, how about taking the leap? I highly recommend sourcing your engagement ring from Blue Nile.com Blue Nile is the original online jeweler since 1999. On Bluenile.com you can create a Big, brilliant piece at a price you won't find anywhere else. Blue Nile offers a diamond price guarantee, which means that in most cases they can meet or beat a competitor's price on a comparable diamond. And you can feel great about your purchase. They're committed to ensuring that the highest ethical standards are observed when sourcing diamonds and jewelry. So you can feel great about that too. Everybody feels great. But this is what we're doing. And it's a good thing because it makes them like you. Blue nile also offers 100% satisfaction guarantee with guaranteed free shipping and returns, then guaranteed service and repairs for life repairs. What are you doing with it? But you have it anyway. And don't worry, every Blue Nile order is insured and arrives in packaging that won't give away what's inside. Just like those pills you'll have to take after you've been married for 20 years. Oh, that's not fair. I kid the married right now. Go to blue nile.com and use code random for $50 off your purchase of $500 or more. That's $50 off with code [e-mail] blue nile.com two other ones. It's important. It's an issue. I think it's great. We live in a time when trans people can be, you know, respected and protected. But you're asking too much often to rewrite. Like the idea that when someone is born, there is a default setting for humans, male and female. Not everyone is. Now, a real conservative would say no, everyone is. I would never say that, but I.

[Bill Maher]

Think there are chromosomal spectrum.

[Jon Cryer]

There's a default setting, but then there's a whole other other section. And that's great and we should protect those people. But don't pretend there isn't also a default setting. And you can't rewrite the world so that every baby is just a jump ball. Oh, it could be anything. No, if it's got a dick, it's probably a boy. And if it's not, we'll deal with that. We'll deal with that in a compassionate way.

[Bill Maher]

Well, yeah, absolutely.

[Jon Cryer]

But we'll also be apprised of the idea that children don't know shit about anything. Yes, sometimes it is obvious and we should address it that way. But I mean, kids, Christ almighty. I mean, the idea that I would as a child would have had to have dealt with something like this.

[Bill Maher]

Well, again, the people that go through it don't say, this is the life I want. No parent wants to be in the midst of those choices. It's terrifying.

[Jon Cryer]

Kids these days actually just do want to be trans.

[Bill Maher]

It's cooler.

[Jon Cryer]

John.

[Bill Maher]

Nope, I don't agree.

[Jon Cryer]

Come on.

[Bill Maher]

I don't agree with Bill Maher. That's the name of the show.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, your eyes are not open to that. I think I will. There are some kids especially. Why is it like so much more prevalent like here than Indiana? Are they suppressing it there? Maybe a little.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, there's a societal suppression, but it's like left handed ism. Left handed. Being left handed was suppressed for, you know, for thousands of years amongst human beings. But once they, it was, you know, apparently in the 30s, scientists basically said there's no, there's no. Left handedness doesn't actually do anything bad.

[Jon Cryer]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

Left handedness shot up. People just stop training themselves to be right handed. And this is a, this is a, you know, this has happened societally before. And that's the, that's the closest analog that I can think of.

[Jon Cryer]

Okay. But I think the numbers are faulty in that one. I mean, how many people are left handed? 15%, something like that.

[Bill Maher]

It went from like, like 8 to.

[Jon Cryer]

15% of us are born in the wrong body.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know. I. But I do believe that, that parents who are dealing with that situation in their child need to be able to make those decisions.

[Jon Cryer]

I don't think that, I don't think it's as high as 50%. It is a certain percent, but.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, but the statistician in Bill Maher says.

[Jon Cryer]

But numbers matter.

[Bill Maher]

No, they do.

[Jon Cryer]

Numbers matter.

[Bill Maher]

But what bothers me is that this becomes an issue to demonize people.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, but I'm not demonizing.

[Bill Maher]

I know, I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying the right wing framing is, and it often starts with danger to your children, danger to your women. The trans people are going in your bathroom. And of course, by the way, these bills that are in Congress right now are to force trans women into men's bathroom. Also force trans men into women's bathroom. And these. I don't think Nancy Mace really gets that she's inviting a bunch of trans men into her bathroom. I don't think she gets that.

[Jon Cryer]

It's horrible.

[Bill Maher]

It's horrible.

[Jon Cryer]

And I agree with that.

[Bill Maher]

But again, the demonization that they spent millions, hundreds of millions of dollars demonizing trans people was, Was loads.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, loads. That's politics, sweetheart. No, it's not. Give them an opening. Excuse me? You give them an opening like people deserve respect.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, that's the opening. That's.

[Jon Cryer]

Oh, God. Deprogrammer. Please come in soon.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, can we get the deprogrammer? When him. I want to deprogram you.

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah. You're doing a business.

[Bill Maher]

You do this for a living.

[Jon Cryer]

Here's what she would not condemn. She had said when they asked her, are you for operations in prisons? Taxpayer paid in prisons for prisoners who want to transition. Transition. Okay. She just said, I'll follow the law. She wouldn't say no. You know what? I said that in 2019, that goes too far. Well, except maybe she would have been somewhat in the race if she said something like that.

[Bill Maher]

But again, this, this happens as you said, the statistical amount of trans people is so small and this happens on so few occasions, and this is statistically meaningless.

[Jon Cryer]

You just said it was 15%.

[Bill Maher]

No, but even I didn't say that. You said it. You're the. I was talking about left handed, but I said I don't know. Yeah, I don't know the statistics.

[Jon Cryer]

It does. But just from my point, from just looking around the world, you don't think the 15% is a little high for that?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, it might be. Again, I'd be guessing.

[Jon Cryer]

But see, here's the thing. You're right about a lot of this. What the right. The right does demonize.

[Bill Maher]

And that's horrifying.

[Jon Cryer]

Oh, God, it's politics. Of course you have to assume that the other side is going to use your vulnerable points. But here's what the left demonizes. They would take my conversation with you right now, which is in no way illiberal, and say I'm some sort of bigot, because in the left view, the far left. Anyway, any just questioning of this is a mic drop. Oh, you're a bigot. I mean, it happened on CNN recently. Like I will not sit here and hear someone called a boy, you know, and they're talking about someone who trans. But you know, it's like we're so pure, we know everything that's the given. So any discussion of this is bigotry to begin with. And that's not where we are with this issue.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I'll tell you, I can tell you why they feel like that. If it helps you. They feel like that because when they're very capability of being a person is questioned, when just the idea that they exist is questioned. Agreed. They are dehumanized and they say that is bigotry. Now I. Now again, somebody calling you a bigot, you know, you can take offense and get angry at that. Okay. You know, but again, you're fine. Somebody called you a bigot people called me all kinds of awful things, really, you know, what do they call you?

[Jon Cryer]

Who could be mad at you?

[Bill Maher]

People are mad at me. You're mad at me. No, you're not.

[Jon Cryer]

I'm not mad at you for engaging.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, well, happy to.

[Jon Cryer]

You didn't have to.

[Bill Maher]

No, I didn't. It's true. What the fuck am I doing here?

[Jon Cryer]

Fun to let it out, isn't it?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, you know. Yeah, I, you know, I have, you know, the trans people in my life feel at this point really frightened, you know.

[Jon Cryer]

Who are the trans people in your life, if I may ask?

[Bill Maher]

Well, no, frankly, that's my own business and.

[Jon Cryer]

Okay, that's fine. I just.

[Bill Maher]

But, you know, it. It is. It is. They're in a place where they're personally terrified right now because not only was, you know, this election was the outrage cycle of this. Of this particular election targeted them, but it was accepted. And people, you know, accept that. It's like, okay, yeah, we dehumanized them. It was politics.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, another reason why the Democrats shouldn't have blown it.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you know, again, so, you know, you can blame them all you want. I believe again that there is a worldwide reaction to the inflation bump. After Covid, everybody, every. As I said, Americans hate inflation.

[Jon Cryer]

You keep telling yourselves that and you'll lose the next one too.

[Bill Maher]

And if they lose the next one running. But okay.

[Jon Cryer]

No, Well, I mean, the party that we. It's funny. We voted for the same person. Yes. We, you know, are generally supportive of the same party. We just have very different views on, like, how to deal with that.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah, we do. But. But again, I felt like the, the Democrats, in the very limited amount of time they had to. To fight this election, did can't to the right at a lot. You know, time has nothing to do with it.

[Jon Cryer]

You could do it in two weeks, if anything. She had too much time. She was doing good for the first two months, the joy shit. And then it just, you know, this. It's so antiquated, this idea that people need more than she had 107 days. It would have been better if she had 7 other countries. Don't take 100 days.

[Bill Maher]

I will 100% agree with you that it takes way too long and it's ridiculous.

[Jon Cryer]

We get it. We get it quickly.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

You know, it's not like we have to go and see them at the end of a train station where they were doing a whistle. You know.

[Bill Maher]

That'S Lincoln, you know, having to get like a big thing going on a tour Are you going to.

[Jon Cryer]

Go see Garfield Saturday? It's going to be in the back of a train.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. He's going to be yelling from the back of a train. I hope. I think he said something that I agree with. I don't know. I don't know what he said.

[Jon Cryer]

You must have done a Western.

[Bill Maher]

I have never done. Oh, well, I did sort of a punk western, but it was a modern day western, so it doesn't really count.

[Jon Cryer]

You could redo the Don Knotts movies.

[Bill Maher]

I have been, I have been approached by. That I have been approaching you. The incredible Mr. Limpet. I swear to God you are born.

[Jon Cryer]

No, really.

[Bill Maher]

And I got nothing but respect for Don Knotts. Don Knotts is a master. He was a fucking master. I think he was great.

[Jon Cryer]

Me, he was great. I could not agree more. He was. And the movies, which I think are not really. I don't know why I never see one on, you know, the channels. But as a kid, I. Mr. Limpet. And there's some chicken. Chicken in the West. He was a coward in the old West.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. There you go. Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

I think, I think you're.

[Bill Maher]

This is like, like, yeah, you know, I, I. God bless him. He was, he's. He left behind a wonderful body of work.

[Jon Cryer]

Didn't he win like the Emmy like eight years in a row as Barney Fife? Something like that. It was like, you know.

[Bill Maher]

You know. Yeah, yeah. No, he's a genius. He's a genius. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Jon Cryer]

Who are the other ones like that that you look up to?

[Bill Maher]

Jack Lemmon, I thought was pretty amazing. Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

Jack Lemmon could do serious drama and he could also be the, you know, high energy kind of fun.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

Just you obviously save the tiger.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

Now that's a movie. Yeah, that's a 70s movie. And I mean that as a compliment.

[Bill Maher]

70S. 70s was the best golden era. I mean, taking a Pelham still is one of the.

[Jon Cryer]

Taking it. Yeah, they redid it with Denzel. It was good, but not as good.

[Bill Maher]

No, no.

[Jon Cryer]

The sneeze at the end.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. No. What was great about to compell him is it's New York City in 1974. Whatever. And every single New Yorker is a wise ass. Every single one. And it's true. It's true. That's how Everybody was in 1974.

[Jon Cryer]

You think they're different in New York now? I think no.

[Bill Maher]

My mom's still there actually. She's.

[Jon Cryer]

Oh, really?

[Bill Maher]

She's 89, still living on the up west side of Manhattan.

[Jon Cryer]

I lived in, I lived on the west side of Manhattan and when I was doing Politically Incorrect.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, really?

[Jon Cryer]

First I lived on the east side in a residential hotel across from Smith and Wolinsky's Plaza 50.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, sure, okay, sure. Smith and Wollensky. Sure, I remember Smith.

[Jon Cryer]

Okay. Then I lived on 70th in this building that was kind of distinctive. It like, had a name for it and all this Egyptian art on the walls or something. Anyway, okay, 70th and Broadway. But, you know, New York and I never got along.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. You know, I grew up there. I'm born on Airborne.

[Jon Cryer]

I was just there. I mean, I love it for a weekend, but like, living there, I found to be tough.

[Bill Maher]

It's not for everybody.

[Jon Cryer]

It's not for everybody. First of all, you just have to like or be okay with living in buildings. It's okay. Well, that's not.

[Bill Maher]

Most of human history of people have lived in buildings, though.

[Jon Cryer]

No, they haven't. They lived in.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, you mean in multiple dwellings? Single dwellings.

[Jon Cryer]

Like, I don't live in a building. I live next door.

[Bill Maher]

But I don't. I like living in a. I like apartment living. The best thing about apartment living and I'm just. Is superintendents is just guys who just. You just call up and say, get in here. Because something has gone horribly wrong, you know, and that you don't have in your single family home. You don't. There's not somebody.

[Jon Cryer]

Well.

[Bill Maher]

Well, maybe in yours.

[Jon Cryer]

The last time I had a super is when I lived on 8th Avenue in New York. And it was not.

[Bill Maher]

It was not. You portray it. It was not the dream service situation that, that I'm knock on the door.

[Jon Cryer]

Dyson, he would come in, and I believe he was Colombian. And he. He had some. He was running some weird shit out of the building. And I mean, could you get him to do something? Yes, but I mean, this was on 8th Avenue, you know, it was. You sound like you lived in a nicer sort of building where the super was. I don't know.

[Bill Maher]

No, I mean. No, my mom. When we were. When I was growing up on the Upper west side of Manhattan, it was really. It was not a great neighborhood at the time. It has since become very gentrified. But at the time, no, it was. We had, you know, we had heroin addicts coming in and stealing our fixtures. They would steal the, you know, the, the. The whatever lamps there were on the walls and stuff. We had, you know, bulletproof glass in the lobby and stuff.

[Jon Cryer]

Really?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't the wild West. I mean, the closest thing to the Wild west was I. We had a neighbor, Mr. Green, who. Mr. Green used to come by and he would bring oxtail soup from my mother. He was very nice, bald gentleman, and he was. Well, is. Is your mother around? Well, I brought some oxtail soup. Well, I do not know, but Mr. Green had a secret double life. One night, we're. We're in the house and we hear a pop, pop. And somebody runs down the stairs. And my mom was like, what the fuck happened? And it turns out Mr. Green had. He liked to partake of ladies of the evening. God bless him, Mr. Green. But this one particular lady of the evening had shown up, but then showed up with her boyfriend who proceeded to tie up Mr. Green.

[Jon Cryer]

Boyfriend? You mean him?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, I imagine. You know, again, I'm a romantic. I prefer to see it as just a love relationship.

[Jon Cryer]

It is of sorts.

[Bill Maher]

Of sorts. At any rate, he tied up Mr. Green and started to ransack his ass. The pimp did. Wow. Tied him up next to his bed. But Mr. Green reached under his bed and found a pistol aimed from the hip. Swear to God. From the hip. Because Mr. Green was tied up just.

[Jon Cryer]

Like in a movie.

[Bill Maher]

Just like in a movie. And shot the guy in the head between the fucking eyes. And the next time when he came over with the oxtail soup, he insisted I come over to the house so he could show me where the bullets were changed. So that was my building growing up. But mostly it was nice.

[Jon Cryer]

If you called the police, would Kojak.

[Bill Maher]

Come over just because of the resemblance?

[Jon Cryer]

No, no. I'm just saying.

[Bill Maher]

But the 70s, Kojak was the great 70s.

[Jon Cryer]

Do you remember Kojak?

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Telly Savalas, who loves you, baby. Yeah. He had. Famous for having a lollipop. That was. That was Telly Zavalis's.

[Jon Cryer]

I don't think show that. They should redo that one. That was a great character.

[Bill Maher]

Maybe it's time. Shave the beard.

[Jon Cryer]

You're not Kojak.

[Bill Maher]

I don't have Kojak.

[Jon Cryer]

Ain't woke. Maybe not, bro.

[Bill Maher]

Maybe not. Yes, well, I'll do some research on.

[Jon Cryer]

Kojak is the guy who's up to the judge. Yeah. You see the defendants and I see their victims. I gotta get the scum off the street.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, that was that. The seventies was the scum off the street. But it was also Serpico and, you know, there was. Yeah, it was also. It was. It was an interesting, like, grungy, awful period. Whenever I see period movies about the 70s, I'm like, there's not enough Litter. We need more litter. I don't buy it until the litter is a foot deep, but it is. Oh, man.

[Jon Cryer]

Good. But actually, corn.

[Bill Maher]

I, I, I, I. The reason I came on this podcast, besides that I enjoy your work a lot. I must, I must plug, please. It is actually relevant.

[Jon Cryer]

Please.

[Bill Maher]

Because. Because basically, I, I, I've got a podcast that I produced. I'm not in it, but I produced it that is coming out called the man who Calculated Death. And it is a. It is an insane story that absolutely fell in my lap.

[Jon Cryer]

The man who Calculated Death.

[Bill Maher]

Death, yes. Interesting. Absolutely insane story. Basically, I was at a dinner party with a friend of my wife, and she, at one point, she, she knew I was a big fan of the space program. The history of the space program is something I'm. I'm fascinated with. And she said, oh, you know, my, my grandpa worked on the space program. And I was like, oh, that's. Wow, that's awesome. And she said, yeah. And then before that, he, he worked for Hitler. But anyway. No, no, no, no. Really, just. Yes. She continued on the conversation.

[Jon Cryer]

Wernher von Braun.

[Bill Maher]

Actually, he worked with Wernher von Braun because she, she had been on this.

[Jon Cryer]

We had a lot of Nazis.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. She had been on this crazy journey because two years before we had this conversation, her mother fl. Had been diagnosed with cancer. And literally, on her deathbed, her mother admitted to her, she said, I've been writing a memoir for five years now, but I won't finish it because I'm dying. Will you finish it for me?

[Jon Cryer]

Wow.

[Bill Maher]

And so Suzanne had to. Her name is Suzanne Rico. She was an anchor woman here in Los Angeles. That's how my wife knew her. Suzanne had to go back through her family's history that she'd only kind of dimly been aware of, and discovered that her grandfather actually was a guy named Robert Lesser, who was one of Hitler's most important scientists. He invented the V1, which was. He and Wernher von Braun were in a race to make secret superweapons for Hitler.

[Jon Cryer]

My mother was in London when those bombs fell on it.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly. And they terrorized London. And so Suzanne basically had to go on this journey, sort of rediscovering her family's history and understanding, you know, what the family went through to get through World War II and, you know, Operation Paperclip, bringing the. Secretly bringing the Nazis to the United States and plopping them down. That's what it was called, Operation Paperclip. Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

I never knew that.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

It's a fascinating story. Well, Here's a moral question and that probably for our show that we're going to do, called the Purist and the Pragmatist. The Pragmatists would say bringing Nazis, ex Nazis here to run our spades program was the right thing to do.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

What does the Purist say? You agree with that?

[Bill Maher]

The Purist? Well, you know, the argument at the time was these were the good ones.

[Jon Cryer]

No, the argument was, we need a space program before the Russians get one, and Nazis know how to do it because Germans are smart and efficient. I always say this about Germans. They're so efficient that when they turn their efficiency toward mass death, even then no one's bad for death. But it's true. They're just. Just. It's not like their ambitions to wipe out people was any different than Genghis Khan or lots of other people. They just were. They had 20th century technology, and they just are so crazy efficient Germans and specific and detailed. So, like, when it was like, how do we kill all the Jews?

[Bill Maher]

It was like, be efficient about it, I think.

[Jon Cryer]

Did you see that movie, the Zone of.

[Bill Maher]

Zone of Interest? Yes, I did see that movie, the.

[Jon Cryer]

Zone of no Interest.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, it was a little slow. I will say.

[Jon Cryer]

The movie was what I got out of it. No, it was. It was not bad. But what I got out of it was a kind of a movie version of the famous saying from Hannah Arendt, the banality of evil. Yes, it was. And of course, if you're showing banality in a movie, it's a little slow. You know, it could have used Chuck Lorre to punch it up a. Oh, God. You know, you come in and you're just like this bumbling guard from the. You know that because you're. If you don't know the story, this German family, and they're. They have this wonderful, idyllic life in the Lebenstrom living space that Hitler wanted. But it's right next to Auschwitz.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Oh, darn. That's the only place that we could get a big enough place for the family. Well, actually, it's interesting because that's what the. A big chunk of the podcast is about, is a family. What happens to a family as authoritarianism gradually takes over their country?

[Jon Cryer]

Where.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sorry, in Germany.

[Jon Cryer]

That's what the podcast is. That's what the podcast is in Germany.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, because it's about, like, what year? Because Robert Lesser, the guy who. It's about the man who calculated death, he was a famous German pilot. He actually built his own planes that he flew and Became a celebrity, actually, and his family. He became an engineer. He invented the Bf109, which is probably the most famous fighter plane.

[Jon Cryer]

So the 40s.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. So, yeah, this goes from the 20s.

[Jon Cryer]

The war ends in 45. Then we import the Nazis.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. He actually was in hiding for a couple of years after the war because he was sure he would be tried for war crimes. But then the CIA found him. Him and rather the precursor to the CIA, the oss.

[Jon Cryer]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

And. And brought him to the United States illegally at the time. Undocumented immigrants. And.

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah, you know, we need.

[Bill Maher]

And yeah, but it was interesting because that's a lot. The podcast goes into, you know, what. What exactly was he complicit in? What wasn't he complicit in? You know, some of the V1s were built at concentration camps.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, I would listen to that. That's interesting.

[Bill Maher]

And Suzanne, amazing job.

[Jon Cryer]

Can I hear this?

[Bill Maher]

It is on. It's on Apple Podcasts as we speak. Spotify right now. It's exclusive to Wondery Plus. So if you. If you subscribe to Wondery, what is the title?

[Jon Cryer]

One more time.

[Bill Maher]

The man who Calculated Death. It's clearly a catchy time.

[Jon Cryer]

I'm the man who smoked pot, so I, you know, don't. Don't hate me.

[Bill Maher]

This is probably not the optimum time to approach you. This is particular. Oh, really? Really?

[Jon Cryer]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

This is when I'm at my best. I never drink all week. I save it for this. It's the joy of my life to be able to get to know somebody. It's usually not this contentious, but I don't. That's okay. But if it's okay with you, it's okay with me.

[Bill Maher]

It is. Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

I love honesty and I love getting right to what do we really think and feel? And I also just love that we can continue. And it's like, okay, he's him. I'm me. We're not the, you know, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

But we still have so much in common and can like each other and just go. There's always going to be things about other people. You're going to go, I don't know why. I can't believe they think that way. But, you know, well, doesn't matter.

[Bill Maher]

And again, I do want to compliment you, especially in the context of talking about the rise of authoritarianism, is you have been a very clear voice talking about the very specific issues that have arisen.

[Jon Cryer]

Nobody was taking me seriously about Trump for the longest time, and it was, like, obvious to me this is someone who could never say, I lost. I concede an election. He couldn't do. I do this in my act. But I'll just say it to you. I don't want to be. You know, it's called an illegal spritz in comedy. But. But it is just the truth also, of course, because I don't really write jokes. I just, you know, observe them. But like when a football coach loses a game, you know, football coaches, that's all their life is. They have no other life. They all just live for it. I mean, Bill Belichick now has a 23 year old girlfriend, but trust me, for all the 40 years he was coaching, he did not. Because Tom Brady, Tom Brady was his girlfriend. So when they lose a game, it is just the worst. But they force themselves to walk across that field and put out their hand. They seek out the winning coach. Nice game, Andy. And that is what this man can never do with elections. And you know, he jokes about maybe after this one. And is it really a joke? See, this is my thing with my friends on the right, I keep saying to them, you guys say, your big theory is he just says a lot of shit. Okay? We're gonna put this as a lot of shit doctrine to the test, because that's not good enough for me. People who say shit usually do it.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

And you know, and I don't know.

[Bill Maher]

That the people, a lot of people that voted for him heard some of the shit that he was saying, you know. Cause he just yammers on with that word salad, you know, that's his superpower. I know it is.

[Jon Cryer]

He's so all over the map about everything that nobody takes him literally about anything, which is the biggest advantage a politician could ever have. You don't really believe what I'm saying anyway, you just trust me that I have the instincts of let's not live in crazy town and we won't get over there again. Okay. You know, let's not live in John Crierville, wink, wink.

[Bill Maher]

You know, it's fun in Dark Cville. All I. All I can tell you, you think.

[Jon Cryer]

You have a fun life. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you've been married twice?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, that's, that's, that's immediately what you go to. You're like, what? And you wait, you've been married twice and you actually had fun. Let's. Wait a minute. Wait, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to, have to go through this a little bit. Yes, I had been married twice, I had two kids.

[Jon Cryer]

From the same marriage?

[Bill Maher]

No. I had a son in my first marriage and another one my second.

[Jon Cryer]

How long was the first marriage for?

[Bill Maher]

Four years.

[Jon Cryer]

Four years. That's about the right time for a start. I've heard the term. I don't want to cast aspersion, but I've heard people use the term start a marriage. You know, I think it's not an aspersion on the person so much as that you're usually young when you do it, so you don't know enough about being a person.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. And sometimes you don't get married for great reasons, you know, and that happens, you know, and that's nobody. You know, I don't want to say it's nobody's fault because you did it, you know, so it's your fault. But at the same time, you know, as you. As you get older, things change. And you had, you know, you saw a situation a certain way and you said, okay, this is the best thing to do, and sometimes it just wasn't so, you know.

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah. I mean, when I think back at what I call the vulnerable years, when, I mean, I did get engaged once when I was 29, and, you know, I, you know, always got my toe out of the trap, but, boy, it almost happened a few years later, and I would have been so unhappy, and it would have fucked up everything. I mean, somehow I've done so many stupid things, but somehow that lodestar, like knowing that I am just not the kind of person who could be married, I at least kept to that, and that was correct. But that's fair. Like so much else, I would just like. And I. I always say to myself, when I live my life over. I'm sure I'm not gonna do that, because that was so stupid.

[Bill Maher]

And I. Well, interestingly, I do think that there is definitely a societal stigma to not getting married and to not having children that people, you know, people judge people. I'm certainly judging you right now. No, I'm not. But I don't think it's fair. I think people.

[Jon Cryer]

That was great.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

That was.

[Bill Maher]

I think, think, you know, if. If people know that about themselves and, you know, it doesn't mean they're shallow. It doesn't mean that they don't. They don't have empathy or don't understand people or don't understand the human experience or whatever. I. I think it's a. I think it. Those are ridiculous statements myself.

[Jon Cryer]

Thank you. I mean, it used to be much more, I think, of what you're describing now, as far as what an outlier it was in society. I remember on Politically incorrect in the 90s and when. But again, this is the 90s. It was a little bit of a, you're a weirdo if you never got married. I feel like it just became, no, that's a. So many more people are doing it, by the way. It's just a life choice. And we do get more, especially with social media and that fucking magic light box that transfixes everyone and addicts everyone and changes our brain chemistry, basically. It's harder to connect and stay, like, married and that kind of stuff. I mean, our attention spans just aren't there.

[Bill Maher]

You just can't pay attention to the same person for that long. I mean.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, that is a big problem with marriage, is that. I mean, that is the main problem. People can pretend it's other problems, but it's just hard to be with the same human being. No one is that scintillating. I mean, I'm not. I just don't think anyone is. And that, to me, was a main reason why I never got married is like, that model is not gonna work, so I'm gonna find other models. Literally. Literally. We'll be right back.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Although I have to say, I love being married to my wife. It is.

[Jon Cryer]

And that's another. Just a different personality type. And it's. Yeah, it's very. I. I envy that to a degree because, you know, it simplifies life.

[Bill Maher]

It does in some ways. And also just having somebody else to go through life with, like, just to go through the times that are great. Like, you're, you know, you're going to say, I just had the best interview with Jon Cryer to an empty house full of models, I'm sure. But.

[Jon Cryer]

It'S not exactly that actually empty right this minute. But I live alone and, like, living alone. And I don't know if that is something that you could ever change about yourself. You just have to recognize it about yourself. I did have that instinct early on. It was the correct instinct. It just has everything to do, as everything does with when your personality is formed in those first few. Some would say months, but years of life, you know, you're pretty much. At least this is what the experts tell us, you know, set. And I certainly have known parents who have said to me, you know, right away what this kid is like, at like one or two. Like, oh, that's a wild one. You know, I don't have that experience, but I think that's probably right. So it's just kind of what your Personality is. I think politics is something that much more comes out of personality. You know, you're a Republican. Yeah. You're Republican because you're a square. You know, that's your personality. You know, not you, but like, you know, certainly in, in the old days, when I was a kid, the Republicans were more the country club types.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Well, now they're the, the fire breathing, you know, it's kind of switched up. You know, destroy the establishment.

[Jon Cryer]

Let's, you know, the Democrats got to be the elitist. They're. They're.

[Bill Maher]

But again, I don't agree with that.

[Jon Cryer]

But that's what America.

[Bill Maher]

But I get it.

[Jon Cryer]

I know you don't.

[Bill Maher]

That's the right wing frame.

[Jon Cryer]

But that's how. It's not right wing framing. That's your indoctrination. You got to get out of MSNBC all day.

[Bill Maher]

I don't watch on msnbc.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, they're watching you.

[Bill Maher]

Gosh.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, that is not right wing framer.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

That's just how America sees it.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sorry, but the pro union party, the Democrats.

[Jon Cryer]

The Democrats are not seen as the working party.

[Bill Maher]

They're not seen as it. Because of the right wing framing. Bill Maher.

[Jon Cryer]

That is part of it, of course.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, that is.

[Jon Cryer]

But they're going to take advantage of it. Yes, you're right. There is a certain amount of that that you would expect the opposition party to try to take advantage of. But they give them these openings. Yeah. Do I understand why Sherrod Brown, who's very pro union, lost in Ohio where there's a lot of union jobs? Some of that is because of propaganda and some of that is because they just didn't see what his championing got for them.

[Bill Maher]

Well, and, but I'm gonna say this one more time and you're gonna get so annoyed with me. And inflation hit very hard and their, and their salaries did not catch up. Boom. That's why.

[Jon Cryer]

You know what? Denzel has a great I'm sorry quote Washington. If you're looking for an excuse, you'll find one. Yes, well, so inflation wasn't good. But like, if you want to look at an excuse for excuses, you'll find it. If you want to look in the mirror and ever win an election again, follow me. If you want to live well again.

[Bill Maher]

I'm not saying there should not be introspection. I think the Democrats and the left are too much. Are the kings of introspection. But no, I'm saying, obviously we're in a different fight now because. And by the way, I'm not a Democrat. I'm a registered independent.

[Jon Cryer]

Me, too.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. But I believe the fight now is to retain something of a democracy, something of a civil democracy.

[Jon Cryer]

I am an independent, but I've never voted for the Republicans.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I have. So that's how we're different. And I really.

[Jon Cryer]

Who did you vote for?

[Bill Maher]

I'm not going to say.

[Jon Cryer]

Okay, okay.

[Bill Maher]

That's what I am going to say because it deserves some introspection on my part. It was Rudy Giuliani in New York City.

[Jon Cryer]

You don't have to be ashamed of it.

[Bill Maher]

Well, well, he was a good mayor. He did change how New Yorkers felt about the city. He took problems that people felt were just intractable in New York City and made people feel like, oh, we can do something about these things.

[Jon Cryer]

It's so funny because.

[Bill Maher]

And that I'm grateful for.

[Jon Cryer]

What he did was unwoke some bullshit that was going on in the city. He was a Republican mayor. So it sounds like when these issues were in your life, personally, I kind of liked it when the. Rudy. Why is it. Okay. That's easy to do, but engage with the actual thought.

[Bill Maher]

Why?

[Jon Cryer]

It's wrong. Engage with that.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sorry.

[Jon Cryer]

Engage with. It sounds like when you were living in New York.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, okay.

[Jon Cryer]

And these issues impacted you directly.

[Bill Maher]

These issues impacted Rudy Giuliani directly now. And I'm still. And I'm not voting for Trump.

[Jon Cryer]

No, because you're richer now. You're rich. So you're not like on the street. But Rudy Giuliani, you liked him because he made New York more livable, which was less crime, you know.

[Bill Maher]

Well, he, he get this. Yes. They, they introduced broken windows policing, which. Which at the time was supposedly statistically based. And you remember, they had.

[Jon Cryer]

Explain the theory.

[Bill Maher]

The theory of broken windows is, was that that by prosecuting petty crime, petty quality open windows. Yes. Quality of life crimes. Like the guys who would squeegee your car whether you wanted them to or not. Right. That by that it increased an atmosphere of civility and lawfulness. And to the extent that some of that worked, but it also resulted in some very bad things. The stop and frisk policy, that was incredibly racist. And New York City has dealt with incredible racism since its founding. And so, you know, the, you know, I could say, yeah, it was, you know, it was nice not to have the squeegee guys, you know, but again, I, you know, the man has imploded as a human being. Rudy Giuliani.

[Jon Cryer]

What do you make of people? Like, I mean, there's so many people you think of, like Harvey Weinstein, Diddy, like, people who were like, at the summit and then they're just in places now. I mean, Rudy's not exactly in jail, but he's certainly in show business jail. And I mean, Epstein, I mean, to go from, like, how they live to.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, Giuliani was revered for decades. He was America's mayor.

[Jon Cryer]

He ran for president on this.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. And, yeah, again, I don't know why the people in Trump's orbit gather there and are dismantled and destroy their lives and throw their lives away to be loyal to this man. I don't understand it. You know, my understanding with Rudy in his case was that he actually has a serious drinking problem. Again, I don't know. I don't call it defamation, because I don't know for sure.

[Jon Cryer]

But that's the story that is brooded about.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, yes. So it could be that. I don't know. I don't know. Again, I don't get the appeal of Trump as a. As a politician in any respect, but obviously, I'm outvoted, literally. So I. Certainly not the kind of politician worth throwing your life away on. But plenty of people want to line enough to do it.

[Jon Cryer]

No one has been harder on Donald Trump or, you know, tweeted at me a million times, never complimentary, but I do, I certainly understand why he won. And we don't have to go back over that. Some of it was what the Republicans do, but they ran a smarter campaign, as they often do. And some of us, what would the Democrats do? But there are moments where I look at him and I'll do something where I go, first of all, I understand why it works, but then it's not as I actually like it. Like, when he was Talking at the 91, he was talking about the Elon's rocket that came back and they caught it. He's like, can Russia do it? Can China do it? No, America did it and it took it. And I was like, yeah, you know what? That's not bad to me that someone likes America and is proud that we can do something amazing like that that nobody else can do. Now, does this make up for the other? Of course not. I'm just saying that there are, you know, I thought it was good that he moved the capital of Israel to Jerusalem and if he does something in the new term.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, the embassy. But.

[Jon Cryer]

But what?

[Bill Maher]

But now what. What do you, what do you like about that? Just out of curiosity?

[Jon Cryer]

Jerusalem?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, it's been the Jewish capital for like, 2500 years. Years.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. You know, no, I'm legitimately curious. I'm not. This isn't a gotcha.

[Jon Cryer]

I mean, no, there's no reason for. Every other country in the world gets to have their capital where they want it. And every American administration promised they would do it and then just pocket vetoed it and forgot about it for four years. It was the right thing to do. You know, again, in a sea of things I didn't agree with. But, you know, I'm not going to. I'm not going to judge anything until it happened. This country needed a slap in the face and a colonic. He would not be the guy I would have chosen, delivered the colonic, but I get the need for the colonic. It's not like we're not bloated and sclerotic and wrapped up in a bunch in a lot of dumb things that we do. And we'll see. I mean, they're disruptors. They certainly got that. That's what the Democrats asked for when they invited this disaster is, you know, now we'll find out what it's like to have Bozo the Clown be the secretary of. Well, I mean, it's so beyond parody.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. The circus is literally in town with the Trump cabinet. But it is interesting because to me, it makes it all the more clear that the Republican project for the last 50 years is to delegitimize and dismantle the United States federal government. And they've said that. I mean, you've got Grover Norquist dismantled, but.

[Jon Cryer]

Well, Grover. Grover Norquist once said. Strangle it in the bathroom.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly.

[Jon Cryer]

We. That's too far. But is it super bloated? Yes. You know, even Al Gore back in the day was put in charge of doing what Elon is. Exactly. Says he's going to do now. So they. They got it back in the 90s that this thing is out of control. Government is completely out of control.

[Bill Maher]

But that's so true. I believe it's a Trojan horse just to. To dismantle the things that they don't like. And.

[Jon Cryer]

And so that's what I'm saying. My issues are the environment and democracy.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

And the environment is. My issue is gonna suffer horribly because these clowns are in there.

[Bill Maher]

You're right. What on earth are you putting in there?

[Jon Cryer]

What is this? That's something. Something Bill Cosby gave me. I didn't ask what could go wrong. It's Cosby's finest look.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, my God.

[Jon Cryer]

Let's not judge him just because it's.

[Bill Maher]

79 accusations 79 rapes or whatever, but. Okay. Well, God bless you. You don't have to tell me.

[Jon Cryer]

So what's your relationship with Charlie now? I'm not saying he's. Don't connect those two.

[Bill Maher]

It's like, wow, okay.

[Jon Cryer]

It made me think of him. I don't think he's a rapist, but he's done other bad things.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I don't know. We don't have a relationship anymore.

[Jon Cryer]

Oh, that.

[Bill Maher]

I wish him the best. We have some mutual friends still. And I've heard he's been sober for a while, which is great to hear. I know that he has reconnected with Chuck Lorre, who was the producer of my show, and their friction was what broke up, what caused that huge conflagration on the show.

[Jon Cryer]

Why were they fighting?

[Bill Maher]

They were fighting. Well, it was really sad, actually. It was incredibly tragic because Charlie was relapsing at the time. Chuck, you know, has been very upset.

[Jon Cryer]

And there was a period where he was sober.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, he was sober for the first few seasons of the show.

[Jon Cryer]

The whole time?

[Bill Maher]

The whole time, as far as I know. I mean, obviously, I'm not the police. Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

I had dinner with him in 2010, and he was completely sober.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Yeah. And he was proud of his sobriety and charming and incredibly charming and smart and great at what he does. Absolutely. A wonderful comedian. Gifted with his timing. I mean, I loved working with him. We had a great time. But he started, you know, after his marriage went south, went south with Denise, he started having, you know, clearly he was using again. And he started, you know, on the show. He was still very professional. He was good to work with. But what happened was he, you know, he started having these things happen. You know, he got arrested at the Plaza Hotel for trashing the room. He got arrested in Colorado for fighting with his closet. Yes. That was the. That was the Plaza. And beating hookers with other hookers. I don't know what happened. No, but he.

[Jon Cryer]

He is Houdini. The fact that he could get a Super bowl at.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

After all the things that he's in the press for doing, some of them on tape.

[Bill Maher]

Well. Cause it's oddly. He has a brand. He has the brand. That is. Exactly. And that's one of the reasons that Trump gets away with what he gets away with. He has the brand, and he's on brand. I mean, part of the reason that Biden suffered so much after the Afghanistan withdrawal was it was off brand. It was a mess. And up to that point, remember, he was polling incredibly well. But Then it was this, oh, no, they don't actually have a handle on this. At any rate, with Charlie, he once. What happened with the show was he fell off the wagon. It was obvious they were doing all kinds of things to sort of work around it. He was missing days on the set. He would still show up on Friday night, and he knew his lines and he was ready to go and he could do the show, but he was barely functioning. And Chuck, who's been very upfront about his own struggles with alcohol, was confronting him and saying, you need help. You have to do something. And Charlie, you know, just said, no, I don't. And that became the big thing is.

[Jon Cryer]

That the period where he. There was a tremendous publicity blitz where he was like, tiger blood and he was just on something.

[Bill Maher]

Well, what caused that was that he. That Chuck said, you need to get help. Charlie said, no, I'm not going to. He said, well, no, he know what he did was he said, I'm going to do it for a week. And then he said, then I want to go back to the show. It didn't make any sense at the time, but it. But it. I think it makes sense to me now. He was already in having monetary issues at the time, which is astonishing because he was the highest. He remains the highest paid actor in television. So he needed the show to go forward. So he was furious. And Chuck shut down the show. And so that was what became the flashpoint. And eventually he got fired because of all the tiger blood nonsense. And he was. Yeah, and he was doing anti Semitic shit. And it was just like, what the fuck is happening here?

[Jon Cryer]

I remember doing a thing about that. And my main thesis, as I recall, was, okay, you can say you're the greatest rock star of all time, and you're this great vampire with tiger blood, but you're on a sitcom on the old people on cbs.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly, exactly. And it's not the rock star.

[Jon Cryer]

It's good.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly.

[Jon Cryer]

I have the highest respect for people, like, who do something that, like, has just huge mass appeal, which I will never do. And I'm okay with that. Everyone has their great niche. I love where I am, but I will never have that. I mean, it wouldn't be right for me anyway. But Taylor Swift, I don't get that. But, you know, I have total respect because Trump, you know, you got this tremendous army of people to either watch your show for years. It was one, like every year, wasn't it? Like 1, 1, 1, 1.

[Bill Maher]

It did great.

[Jon Cryer]

That's, you know, there's a certain like automatic respect you have to get for success in my book, even if it's not what I would watch or do or vote for. You move, people.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, there was absolutely. We had a lane that really worked, you know, and I was really proud of it, and we had a wonderful time. And again, he was really good to me. But when the breakdown happened, that's when he just started lashing out at everybody, including me. And so obviously the friendship broke down. And years later, he came asking, he wanted to reboot the show. And this is after we had already done it with Ashton for a couple of years and. And I said, no, this doesn't make any sense. That's a roller coaster I don't want to get back on, thank you very much. And then he started going into social media and acting like I was begging him to do the show again, which I was like, oh, that's just not cool. And it's frustrating to me because he still keeps up the Tiger blood Persona socially on social media and stuff, and it's.

[Jon Cryer]

He's sued for his blood.

[Bill Maher]

I know, but he is, to my understanding, is he's been sober for a while. And the mutual friends that we have. And again. And he and Chuck Lorre, as I said, they've reconnected. And he actually appeared on Chuck's most recent show on hbo.

[Jon Cryer]

You're gonna wind up all working together again. Every band gets back together when the demand is enough. Mike Tyson just got back in the ring. He's 1,000 years old.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, God.

[Jon Cryer]

He looked like my Uncle Phil in there.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. He had about two rounds of, like, a little fire in him and then it was. Nope, gone. Done. Done for the evening. But, yeah, you know, again, I like him and I wish the best for him, and I'm really glad he's sober. And if you have him on the show, you'll have a great time and you'll have a great time. I've been trying to have him. No, really, I would love to, but working with him in any kind of a regular capacity, I will not, not do again. I'll do a one off, sure.

[Jon Cryer]

But I wish that dinner that we had, it was about 20. Tennis, I think it was six people. We had a mutual friend, so it was him and his girlfriend. Me and the girl I was with the time. And Charlie and Brooke, the wife.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah, the one. He held the knife to her throat again. This guy gets a Super Bowl. Anyway, so at the end of the evening, you know, I go for my wallet and he's a like. And he throws down. I remember it was at the time, you couldn't get, like, one round of drinks for this. Probably now. And I think it was at the Polo Lounge. He throws down six $600 bills. I guess the bill was 500 or four, whatever it was. And. And ever since then, this girl and I, whenever we would be someplace and we want to get out quickly, we would say, I'm just going to. I'm just gonna sheen it.

[Bill Maher]

He's become a verb.

[Jon Cryer]

Means, like, you throw down cash. This is more than it is. Plus, I'm gone.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Jon Cryer]

So he was. He's a cool dude. I mean, you know, the charisma is there.

[Bill Maher]

He has. Yes. He is absolutely charismatic. And. And what's great about that and what's lousy about that is all encased in one being, you know?

[Jon Cryer]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And, you know, and again, I want to say one more time, I really wish him well. I. I loved.

[Jon Cryer]

I loved working with him when it was working again. You'll be working together again because it becomes. It's.

[Bill Maher]

It becomes a thing.

[Jon Cryer]

It's a force in the universe. And also, you know, it's. There was an undeniable, like, uber chemistry that. That probably cannot be extinguished. I mean, people can drift, but. But I don't know if that isn't so innate that it wouldn't always be there. And then they'll offer you the right money, and, like, everybody loves money. I mean, you're not so woke. You know, Love money. I know.

[Bill Maher]

But now in the future, whenever you think of the woke people that you're really mad at, it's me. I want to put that face on it. That's the. This is the one right here. Just say Jon Cryer. Actually, whenever you say that, it was Jon Crier who brought us to this awful pass. No, he's the one who did it.

[Jon Cryer]

It's every Hollywood actor who sits there.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Jon Cryer]

For two guys who don't agree on much. You made me laugh. Oh, good. Like, continually.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Jon Cryer]

I'm sure as much as you probably hate me now.

[Bill Maher]

I don't hate you.

[Jon Cryer]

I know.

[Bill Maher]

There's no hatred.

[Jon Cryer]

Me neither. Much as we disagree, I think you would at least give me this. That my laugh is just genuine.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. You're laughing.

[Jon Cryer]

Yes. I do not laugh like a talk show host.

[Bill Maher]

Well, that's. I. I thank you. That's. That's kind of you to say. And I. And I. I've enjoyed my time a lot, and I enjoyed doing political correct.

[Jon Cryer]

Back in the day. Who can make each other laugh? Probably you know, find a way to agree on more than they disagree. But, you know, we'll just say it's the beginning. Chapter.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Of our love relationship. Wait a minute, wait a minute. That went in a weird direction.

[Jon Cryer]

My pledge to be on the back of this train with you, me, and thank you, America. Vice President Garfield. Pledge to America.

[Bill Maher]

Garfield got assassinated, by the way. Just a. You got shot.

[Jon Cryer]

And then Secretary Arthur is the one who took over, Right?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, I believe.

[Jon Cryer]

All right. Vice President Arthur and I, after you.

[Bill Maher]

Hopefully, we both have careers after this.