Lisa Kudrow Returns | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Title: Lisa Kudrow Returns
Release Date: June 15, 2026
Guests: Lisa Kudrow (actor), Bill Maher (host)

Episode Overview

In this episode of Club Random, Bill Maher sits down for another wide-ranging, personal, and laugh-packed conversation with actor Lisa Kudrow. The pair avoid politics in favor of examining nostalgia for old TV shows, the modern entertainment landscape, the revival of Lisa’s cult-favorite HBO series "The Comeback," psychedelic experiences, show business war stories, and the existential questions around consciousness and creativity. They discuss the new (and final) season of "The Comeback," their approaches to handling rejection, their mutual love/hate relationships with TV and streaming, and how the entertainment industry is changing—especially in light of AI. The tone is warm, self-deprecating, and candid, with Kudrow’s blend of neurotic insight and long-game confidence melding with Maher’s sharp, philosophical irreverence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Being “Not Typical Showbiz” and Connecting as Outsiders

• Kudrow and Maher relate as “playing it close to the vest,” valuing authenticity over effusiveness (02:46).
  • "You're so not typical show business anything. And I mean that in a good way." – Bill Maher (41:42)
• Early talk reminisces about pre-cable TV, the limited choices, and regional children’s shows (04:15–08:00).

2. The Comeback, Valerie Cherish, and Women in Comedy

• Lisa delves into "The Comeback" and its surprise third season, particularly its resonance with gay audiences and people who relate to her underdog character Valerie Cherish.
  • "So much support from gay men, I have to say, for the comeback. Love, Valerie Cherish." – Lisa Kudrow (12:25)
  • Laments that some straight men can’t handle the show's discomfort and pathos.
  • Bill asserts Valerie is a character "that should be in the Smithsonian" for capturing a specific moment in entertainment culture (13:45).
• Backstory on characters like Paulie G.—why abrasive showbiz archetypes exist, and behind-the-scenes realities in writers’ rooms (15:34–17:57).
• Discussion of set tensions, fraught working relationships, and ways in which show business and sitcom work has evolved for the better (16:48, 68:45).

3. Philosophy of Comedy and Coping with Rejection

• Both discuss their respective bombs and the emotional resilience required (24:27–32:00).
  • Kudrow credits an “acting coach” whose real teaching was “how you cope”—mainly, “don’t take anything personally.”
  • "If you’re okay, the audience is going to be okay. If you’re scared or you desperately want them to like you—that’s not what they’re here for.” – Lisa Kudrow (25:19)
  • They discuss the unique brutality of stand-up, improv, and “learning in public.” Bill confesses that as a young comic he believed it was the audience's fault if they didn’t laugh (30:41).

4. Drugs, Psychedelics, and States of Mind

• Bill and Lisa exchange stories on their early experiences with cannabis and other substances, particularly how they did (or didn’t) help with creativity and introspection (33:20–39:00).
  • Lisa is wary of potent modern marijuana because of one bad teen experience, Bill pitches mushrooms as “just complete laughter” and not as scary as she fears.
  • They muse on how mindset shapes experiences, and the unpredictability (34:41, 36:40).
• Bill connects altered states to the "creative flow" and refutes the notion that AI can replicate the real thing (47:35).

5. Consciousness, Creativity, and the Brain’s Filters

• Kudrow excitedly shares ideas from modern physics and neuroscience: consciousness perhaps existing "in a field" versus the brain, and how our brains filter both external and internal information to make reality bearable (41:42–47:35).
  • "Our brain has to filter all that out. And once you make the filter a little more permeable, you're getting access to some things. And creativity is one of those things..." – Lisa Kudrow (46:34)
• Maher is skeptical, but intrigued—"I kind of get it” (43:09).
• They connect these ideas to the creative process, especially in writing and comedy.

6. AI, the Future of Entertainment, and The Comeback’s Relevance

• Celebrate “The Comeback”’s new season, especially its timely exploration of AI-written sitcoms and the existential threat posed by AI to creative industries (47:40–54:20).
  • "Given the rate that AI is moving, it's like probably two weeks ahead of reality." – Bill Maher (48:09)
  • Lisa credits Michael Patrick King with driving the AI storyline, which both fear may already be outpaced by reality.
  • Kudrow notes the “most evil thing” in the scenario isn’t just technology, but that networks might settle for “shows that are good enough to be on while people do something else” (53:03).
• Both express the hope that truly creative, human comedy retains value even as cheap, “serviceable” content proliferates.

7. TV, Movies, and Shifting Habits

• Lisa and Bill compare how they watch TV now versus the past: streaming, binge-watching, commercial interruptions, and missing the simplicity of old TV (55:00–74:45).
  • Bemoan the loss of “zipping” through commercials, difficulty finding sports games, and the confusion brought by fragmented streaming services (72:00).
• Both admit to watching TV in bed to wind down, even if “screens before sleep” aren’t recommended (75:03).
  • Both prefer sitcoms for bedtime—the comfort of Will & Grace, 30 Rock, Friends (76:12).
• Maher likens the original Friends cast’s chemistry to the Beatles, with fan investment in the cast’s real-life relationships (76:54).
• Lisa never anticipated Friends’ impact, but credits it for the freedom to choose projects after (76:49).

8. Film and Acting Preferences

• Favorite comfort movies: Lisa’s picks are "A Few Good Men," the first "Sex and the City" film, "Defending Your Life" (57:07–59:13).
• Bill and Lisa both joke about rarely going to theaters, and defend “watching movies in the kitchen” (60:25).

9. Career Retrospectives and What’s Next

• Lisa jokes about the possibility of a Romy and Michele sequel and being open to “whatever” comes next, contrasting positive modern sets with the chaos of past productions (68:16).
  • "I hear there are very nice sets now, and people are not like what you described on sitcoms." – Lisa Kudrow (68:16)
• Street-level memories from Maher's acting days: being berated on sitcom sets, having to “take your sitcom like a man,” and feeling more nailed down by “being who I am” than acting (19:23, 70:40).
• Lisa reveals her early penchant for responsibility and caution: “I was the best teenager ever. I couldn’t wait to be 30 since I was 10.” (79:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Acting Lessons:
  • "He was just a 'here’s how you cope' teacher. I’m not teaching anyone acting... Don’t take anything personally. It was so great.” – Lisa Kudrow (24:27)
• On Valerie Cherish’s Endurance:
  • “That character should be in the Smithsonian with Archie Bunker and Fonzie's jacket." – Bill Maher (13:45)
• On Processing Bombing and Growth in Comedy:
  • “If you’re okay, the audience is going to be okay. If you’re scared or you desperately want them to like you—that’s not what they’re here for.” – Lisa Kudrow (25:19)
  • “That is the question – what keeps you from quitting after bombing? It very much defines success.” – Bill Maher (29:35)
• On Creativity and AI:
  • "The thing this year with AI is the perfect act three subject for this moment at this time... I'm more scared of it than anything." – Bill Maher (47:42, 49:23)
  • "[Networks] just want a serviceable show that people... can have on while they do whatever else. And that’s why they picked Valerie..." – Lisa Kudrow (53:03)
• On “The Comeback” as a Trilogy:
  • “We started at what we thought would be almost an extinction event, and now here’s the next one… And now it’s a trilogy. It’s a piece.” – Lisa Kudrow (55:25)
• On Friends:
  • “Thank God for it. It let me do the other things I wanted to do.” – Lisa Kudrow (76:49)
  • “It had a Beatle-esque feeling... fans were emotionally invested in [the cast] liking each other.” – Bill Maher (76:54)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:46: Maher and Kudrow bond over being outsiders in showbiz
• 12:25: The cult and LGBTQ resonance of "The Comeback"
• 15:34-17:57: The origins of difficult showrunner characters and set tension
• 24:27-32:00: Handling rejection, comedic bombing, lessons in resilience
• 33:20-39:00: Early drug stories, bad highs, and the “laughter” of mushrooms
• 41:42-47:35: Consciousness, creativity, and the brain as a filter
• 47:40-54:20: AI’s challenge to creative industries and TV itself; The Comeback’s new season
• 55:00-74:45: TV nostalgia, streaming’s pros and cons, and evolving viewing habits
• 76:54: The chemistry of Friends and its Beatle-level fandom
• 79:32: Kudrow’s lifelong preference for adulthood responsibilities
• 80:12-84:23: On high school, college, and finding connection

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Episode Flow & Tone

Throughout, the conversation is candid, nostalgic, and witty, marked by bursts of self-deprecating humor and mutual admiration. Kudrow’s low-key, insightful openness invites Maher’s own confessions; together, they strike notes of shared vulnerability, especially about showbiz insecurity and middle-aged reflections. Despite the seriousness of topics like AI, ego, and consciousness, the tone remains light, intimate, and funny—never lapsing into bitterness or cynicism.

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For New Listeners

This episode is an accessible, insightful, and thoroughly entertaining window into two veteran storytellers reflecting honestly on their careers, the state of entertainment, and the shifting landscape of creativity. Fans of “The Comeback,” “Friends,” or anyone interested in TV’s evolution will find much to enjoy—alongside plenty of laughter and life wisdom.

Transcript

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[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, what I'm about to say might change your mind.

[Michael McDonald]

Club Random I think you'd like mushrooms. I mean it's just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay, I will.

[Michael McDonald]

It's just bring them on out.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Club Random hi.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, I have you. That's what's important. Hi, I'm so happy you came back to see me.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I'm so happy you asked.

[Michael McDonald]

Really?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

What do you mean? Well, you know, I think you and I are a lot alike. We kind of play it close to the vest. You kind of have to.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Like, you do.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

What are you saying?

[Michael McDonald]

No, like, you kind of have to with people. Like, you have to kind of. You get it from actions more than like, some people are very effusive, you know, like, they vomit a lot of love right away. And of course, it's your business. I'm a fan. Is hello.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

You can't not say it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, you have to, though.

[Michael McDonald]

You have to.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You have to.

[Michael McDonald]

You have to.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I mean, don't. You can sense when. You know, some people will need to know that.

[Michael McDonald]

It's just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

They need to know that.

[Michael McDonald]

It's just got to the point. I mean, it's understandable. Maybe it was always thus. It's just understandable that if you don't say it, it's conspicuous. Then you're saying I'm not familiar. Trust me. I've had people sit here who, like, they don't really know what I do for a living.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, I don't say names, but is there any, like, musicians or like.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, just like. Not everybody watches your show.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Younger.

[Michael McDonald]

Not everybody watches your show.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, that's true. You know, we all have our own. Some people are only watching ESPN or only.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

Crime podcast. Ladies who kill, you know, their friends.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, no, I know. That's true. And there's way too much to choose from just in terms of entertainment. There's so many different.

[Michael McDonald]

It is an embarrassment of riches when I think of when my youth and Three, Three, three. Well, New York, the New York market, of course, we were. We had three local and three networks, so that was six channels. Some countries didn't. Some cities didn't have that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, we had three networks.

[Michael McDonald]

Where were you? Here in California.

[Lisa Kudrow]

In California, yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And there's only three channels.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Wasn't there.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, we had.

[Lisa Kudrow]

When I was a kid. I wasn't watching.

[Michael McDonald]

No, I know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Pbs. I wasn't interested in Sesame street as a kid.

[Michael McDonald]

PBS wasn't around when I was little. We had abc, NBC and cbs. The three networks. There was no Fox, but then we had local New York, W.W. o R. WNEW, WPIX.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. Yes. We didn't have that. We had. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Wow, you were deprived.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, we had it too. KTLA, channel 13. That's what we call them. We called them channels.

[Michael McDonald]

That's where they Put the kid shows like Officer. Officer Joe Bolton. Did you have him?

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, no.

[Michael McDonald]

A cop who. Cops were good for kids. Of course, because a cop was. The policeman is your friend. You know, we weren't in.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right, right, right.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, post cynical and historical. I mean, cops have done a lot of shitty things, too. It's not. We're not making that up.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, but there's good and bad.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, they're good. Most of them I'm sure are. And we sure don't want to live without them. And I get the chip on their shoulder.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

But Officer Joe was, you know, with the policeman's cabin and, you know, they had. Who was your person who liked. There must have been Captain Kangaroo.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Captain Kangaroo I liked, but I loved something called Romper Room. Ms. Maryanne. And she had a magic thing and she'd look.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, yeah. Baranpur Room.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I liked it. And Wonder Rama.

[Michael McDonald]

We had that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

Sonny Fox.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Was that his name?

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, the host.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It was Sonny Fox.

[Michael McDonald]

I believe that is the guy.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But I met him later.

[Michael McDonald]

Sonny Fox?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. I thought Sonny Fox owned Toys R Us.

[Michael McDonald]

That could be a different Sonny Fox.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, but he was.

[Michael McDonald]

Or maybe I'm just making that up here.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, I met him through Howard and Betty Fast. You know Howard Fast? No, the writer. No, he wrote Spartacus.

[Michael McDonald]

Spartacus?

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, he wrote.

[Michael McDonald]

No, he didn't. Dalton Trumbo wrote Spartacus. No, that, that. Because that was a big black. You know, the black list.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Howard Fast. Howard Fast was blacklisted and he wrote Spartacus. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Why do I think Dalton Trumbo, who was blacklisted, wrote Spartacus?

[Lisa Kudrow]

You got him confused with Howard Fast, who was blacklisted also.

[Michael McDonald]

Okay. Dalton Trumbull. Yeah. You know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, no, he did. And Kirk Douglas. Yeah. Was in it. And they fought about that.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, whoever wrote it did a fucking awesome job. I mean, have you seen it recently?

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, not recently.

[Michael McDonald]

You've seen it though?

[Lisa Kudrow]

I think so.

[Michael McDonald]

It's so great because it's like Stanley Kubrick before he did, like, the more unconventional ones that were. I mean, he certainly did like a. You know, everything he did was so different than his other movies. You know, there's no, like, genre of Stanley Kubrick.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Uh huh.

[Michael McDonald]

Every movie is like it's its own genre and then he's onto something else. But that was 1960, and it's great to see that master of the far out when he just said, okay, this is a studio picture and I'm just gonna make an awesome studio.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I didn't know he Directed it. I had no clue. Stanley Kubrick. Yeah. Uh, oh. What are we talking about? Maybe. I don't know.

[Michael McDonald]

Didn't he.

[Lisa Kudrow]

We don't have our phones. We can't check anything.

[Michael McDonald]

No, but I, I, I'm pretty sure he did.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Wow.

[Michael McDonald]

I think, I think that was his. Yeah, he did. Like Paths of Glory in the late 50s. He did. You know, you have to. You can't immediately get the job of. Okay. You do whatever crazy shit, you know, 2001 A Space Odyssey.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You've earned the right to experiment.

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You did a. You did it conventionally. And I just thought it showed his great talent. Because when he put his mind to that, he made a great popcorn movie. Because that's what it is.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, it's a real lump in the throat. I am Spartacus.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, I know that part. Yeah. I don't know. That's gladiator stuff.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Lisa Kudrow]

As a kid, I wasn't.

[Michael McDonald]

Laurence Olivier's in it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, he played. And Tony Curtis.

[Michael McDonald]

Tony Curtis with his Brooklyn accent.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, but who was it? Who is flirting with him in it?

[Michael McDonald]

Gene Simmons.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, the man.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes, you're right. It was like they had the code for it. Like whether a man likes oysters or clams, you know, it doesn't matter. They were saying it doesn't matter if you're straight or gay. But in 1960, that's as close as you could get.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, wow.

[Michael McDonald]

But now Gene Simmons was kind of hot. She was the slave girl. She was Spartus. Girlfriend. Okay, yeah, Spartacus. But he's being pursued by Crassus, who was this historical figure, part of the first triumvirate with Julius Caesar and Pompey and Crassus.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay.

[Michael McDonald]

And that's how we'll be on. I know some things won't be on the test.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I'm not huge on the Roman Empire.

[Michael McDonald]

Okay.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Which was. I should be. No, you should be if you're going to learn anything.

[Michael McDonald]

But it's not uninteresting.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Pretty impactful Roman reign.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, very, very impactful. But so Crassus, he's pursuing. And so he's Tony Curtis. No, he's pursuing Spartacus, who's Kirk Douglas.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And so he captures his girlfriend and he's got her. He wants her to, like, like him. He's. Come on, look, this guy's a slave. He's got no good clothes. And Crassus and I got, you know, togas and look at that fucking great fire. And she's, you know, she's There really is.

[Lisa Kudrow]

How many outfits do you want?

[Michael McDonald]

What?

[Lisa Kudrow]

I have all these togas. How many outfits do you want?

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, today.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You just said today it would be

[Michael McDonald]

a mansion and she won't have it. At one point, she says to him, and he goes, you tread the ridge between truth and insult with the skill of a mountain goat. I was like, oh, I love movies.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Just. I love it when they talk. For good reason. Not like we talk. Cause.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

Ever read a transcript of anything you've said off the cuff?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So bad.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, we. There's just a lot of.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It's not. You.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Me off the cuff. Of course. Because you're quick.

[Michael McDonald]

We're quick. But what I'm saying is we lard our conversation with all this conversational spackle. These ers and ums.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And, you know. Yes. Because we want to. Because we seem real.

[Michael McDonald]

Because we weren't raised in Britain where they would, you know, they used to, like. You know, they didn't say, like, I

[Lisa Kudrow]

know when I do read how many likes. And I means.

[Michael McDonald]

And that's what I mean, you know?

[Lisa Kudrow]

But then. Okay, we're communicating. Then I'm like, you know, come on. Like, I'm 60. Why are you saying, like, come on, you're too old for me.

[Michael McDonald]

I'm 70.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Talk like a. No.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I thought we were in the same age.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. 70. And I notice you say it on the. You know, you're not afraid or you have a little bit where you allude to it in the show. You know, you don't hide from 60. Oh, yeah. Not to bury the lead, but, you know, I told you when you heard that before, I mean, I'm the biggest fan of that series. Oh, I was so beyond delighted and shocked. I didn't hear anything about it till it was on. Oh, and I saw it list. I was looking. Oh. I was like, oh, I'll watch. I'll watch these again. And it was like, oh, there's a third season.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

They kind of kept it quiet there.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Not really.

[Michael McDonald]

No, I just missed it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You missed it. But that's okay.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. Cause HBO was great at promotion, but.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Maybe they targeted it, too.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, I'm too old even for that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, no, no. I know. Not old. You know. Well, I mean, look, the. So much support from gay men, I have to say, for the comeback. Love, Valerie Cherish.

[Michael McDonald]

Don't take this the wrong way. Gay men. But I so understand that. I mean that in the best way.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes, me too.

[Michael McDonald]

I do Me too.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I understand, too.

[Michael McDonald]

And, you know, not to be facetious at all about, but why do gay men, you know, or why are they attracted to characters like that, Divas and so forth? And it's usually because they relate to the fact that it is harder for women. Certainly historically in this country, things have changed a lot. And, you know, in many ways now, you know, more of them go to college than men, blah, blah, blah. But there is still lots to do. And so they do relate to that sort of you. You know, I'm not on top, but I'm gonna get onto the top.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And you have to talk and spirit, get along to go along. Right. So there are compromises and, you know, someone's not gonna be nice. And you have to just. Okay, having a bad day, I guess, you know, you have to alter reality just a little bit. Cause it doesn't serve you.

[Michael McDonald]

Honestly, that character itself should be in the Smithsonian with Archie Bunker. Really? I'm not kidding. And Fonzie's jacket, and it so captures an era and.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And just something in the culture. I can't put my finger on it. And I don't have to, because I know it's there.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And it's just. It's this combination of, you know, somewhat bravado when she needs to be like. You just love that courage that comes up. Because otherwise her instinct is always to get along and to, like, make people like. And, of course, maybe it's me having spent a decade as an actor. I know the desperation of actors, you know, but you kind of, like, make you do it in such a way that it's the desperation that we all feel that we relate to. It's just genius.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But the fact that you don't take it personally or feel threatened or like it's it. That's fantastic. Thanks.

[Michael McDonald]

Threatened?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, there are a lot of. I think. Well, this. I don't want to say it the wrong way, but, you know, there are a lot of straight men who just feel bad for her and can't bear it and can't watch it because she's being treated so horribly. First season, Paulie G. The writer.

[Michael McDonald]

I gotta say, that character was right on the edge of it. Never made me think, I'm not gonna watch the show. I loved it too much. But, like, it was. I mean, I hope that actor is not like that in real life.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He's not.

[Michael McDonald]

Okay.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He's also the dad on Young Sheldon now. He was. They finished Young Sugar. He's fine. Lance. He's great.

[Michael McDonald]

He was so Terrible. You're right. It was like, it was hard to. Hard to take, but, you know, but

[Lisa Kudrow]

to be fair, we didn't explain him because the camera was on her. But he was a writer and wrote a show. Network said, no, change it to four sexy singles. That wasn't what he wrote. And then they said, and to hedge our bets, you gotta keep that older one because we're doing a reality show and you're gonna have reality cameras around. Yeah, of course he's pissed we didn't explain that. So that's the backstory to justify. Yeah, I mean, I thought, well, we're letting you know a little.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, I see.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But yeah, I thought it did need explanation. I really thought it did.

[Michael McDonald]

I didn't. Because, like, there are bricks like that in show business. And I.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And then that is also true, you

[Michael McDonald]

know, I mean, I've been. I remember once, a couple of times, but certainly once Dick's out of just being, you know, unfairly berated in front of the, you know, people are tense on sets.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Things happen on sets that probably don't happen quite as much at the office because there's just much more tension in the air and a lot more high strung type of people.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And no.

[Lisa Kudrow]

As if there's so much at stake. Right. Isn't that how it is?

[Michael McDonald]

Of course.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It's like, we don't have time for this. We're gonna die if we don't. What, get a better joke. I don't know.

[Michael McDonald]

The egos are outrageous, but also the money's outrageous.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

You know that as well as anyone.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, showrunners, you deserve it.

[Michael McDonald]

But, you know, but no, that, that's one reason why they're like, huh? Because how much does a day of shooting cost? On a movie? It can cost like a million dollars a day or something.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. But on a sitcom.

[Michael McDonald]

No, I, you know, you're not.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You're rehearsing. A day of rehearsing is a lot. No, I, you know, and friends, they were great showrunners. So it really wasn't until I was working with Michael Patrick King and he started, you know, fleshing out Paulie G. And I thought, seriously, aren't we going too far? We got more writers in the writers room. They all had. They all knew five showrunners that were as bad or worse than Polly G. And I went, okay, then it's a thing.

[Michael McDonald]

Wow.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But there's a lot of people on a set that used to. I think it's so much better. Now. Take it out on the people they can take it out on. If you're not number one or two

[Michael McDonald]

or this thing I just alluded to that is exactly what happened to me.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Were you a guest star on something?

[Michael McDonald]

No, I was a regular on a sitcom. This is like my fourth sitcom.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay.

[Michael McDonald]

I was really over it mentally, and it was like my sitcom career, thank God, was, you know, it was not taking off. It was going down. And we. So I think that this was called Charlie Hoover.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That sounds familiar.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, it was Sam Kinison.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, okay.

[Michael McDonald]

Shortly before his passing. And the lead. Let's just leave him out of it. But he was the one who, like, it was. Sam was on heroin at the time. So, like, wow. He'd be in the makeup chair like this.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, boy.

[Michael McDonald]

And we'd wait around for four hours that he woke up. So I feel like whatever tension and problems the show was having, it was a little more than that, than whatever I. And somebody in that cast who had the authority to just blamed me because. You couldn't blame him because he was the co star. Yeah, he was the co star. And there's no show without him. He was very hot at the time.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

That show, me.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But that's inexcusable. I mean, didn't you remember thinking just like the sane inside of you, this. I know this has nothing to do with me, but it's just. This is deplorable behavior. It's just.

[Michael McDonald]

It's just nuts.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

And they don't seem to be self aware of it. Certainly not at the time. They're like, I guess that they just. Survival, you know, everyone's surviving out there. And it's like, there's an actor who's like, he had a thing, now he's on a sitcom. I'm not saying sitcoms were always a sign you're on your way down. In your case, it was, you know, mega stardom into anything you want. So you had the greatest sitcom experience. But I had more. The other one.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So. But very often you get somebody. It's like somebody who was like, maybe in the movies. And now the time has come to, like, you know, take your sitcom like a man.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay.

[Michael McDonald]

Come on, Eric Stoltz, just fucking get rid of your pride. And so you got a guy like that who's like, oh, okay, I gotta make this. I fell off this rung of movie stardom, right? Now I'm on this rung tv. Like, people have made that into a big thing. You know, Burt Reynolds had a Hit show and movie stars have done that and landed very well on tv, but you don't want to lose this rung. Then you're on. But in reality.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So like, that's his tension.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. That's why he's leaving out the other part of that tension, which is I don't even want to fucking be here. And now I have to deal with overdose and you know, this guy who's so much funnier than I am.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. This wise ass comedian. And look, I'm not saying I couldn't have said something that was inappropriate. Lord knows I never absent. But you know. Yes, could I? But listen, I think if it was anything, I would have remembered it, but I sure do remember getting my ass torn in front of the entire crew and you know, just the whole set, you know, and it's like, okay, you know, and like I said, this guy probably was very tense about his career.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So like, if this is what it took to keep peace with the co star, then sorry, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Mm. Yeah. No, I. Yeah, show business. No, I had. I think I had things approaching that. Not that bad because I was never enough of a threat.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, who doesn't love spring? Longer days, open windows, being outside without your extremities going numb. It's great. But here's the thing nobody mentions in the Hallmark cards. The bugs. And they don't just visit, they colonize. One ant shows up and suddenly it's like Ellis island in your kitchen. One spider becomes a family reunion. Your house stops being a home and starts being a nature documentary you can't turn off. I didn't sign up for cohabitation with insects. That's why there's pesty and. Yeah, diy. Pest control usually sounds like a great way to spend your Saturday losing to insects, but pesti makes it absurdly easy. They send you one customized kit, Pro grade pesticide sprayer, mixing bag, gloves, instructions, the whole thing. Ten minutes later, you're done. And the bugs, Gone. Just gone. No more worries, no more stress. What's smart is they customize it to your location, your season, your weather. Because bugs in Arizona are not the same as bugs in Vermont. It gets rid of over 100 types of bugs. Ants, spiders, roaches, even scorpions, if that's your own particular nightmare. And it's kid and pet friendly, the same products used in hospitals and schools. And instead of paying hundreds for some stranger to spray your house, pesti starts at just 35 bucks a treatment. Best part, they guarantee it 100% bug free or your money Back. That's confidence Bugs. Hate that. Get bugs out of your house with Pesti. Go to pesti.comrandom for an extra 10% off your order. That's P E S T I E.comrandom for an extra 10 percent off. When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing. You can do anything so people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. But a threat on friends.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, I don't mean on friends. I would guest start a lot on things, but I just wouldn't take it in. I had the best acting teacher who wasn't really an acting teacher. He was just a here's how you cope teacher. He's. I'm not teaching anyone acting. That's your business. But we're here to, you know, practice how you do what you do while auditioning. And they're eating. It doesn't matter. Let them eat maybe. What if they're hungry? Like, don't take anything personally. It was so great.

[Michael McDonald]

That was the acting teacher.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

I knew he was successful and it was all cold.

[Lisa Kudrow]

All cold reading. So we just hand you sides because people worked with him before an audition. And it was so great. He even had us do a certain warmup. We'd get up for five minutes. You're going to do stand up.

[Michael McDonald]

Wow.

[Lisa Kudrow]

In front of. And There was only 10 people in the class. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

How did it go?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, you didn't plan it, you didn't write it. You just stood up and spoke. And you learned immediately if you're okay. Because he would say, and here's just what I'm going to tell you. If you're okay, the audience is going to be okay. If you're scared or you're nervous or you desperately want them to like you.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's not what they're here for.

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So I would just talk and be okay. And I did groundlings, improv. I could work in something sort of funny. Not stand up funny, you know, not craft a joke, but. And it would. And it was fine. And it was. That was a huge lesson doing that. Like, yeah, if you're okay and. Right. Like all of you who are really good. All right. A joke doesn't go. And you say, all right. That didn't work anyway. You know, moving on.

[Michael McDonald]

Or sometimes the crowd likes that better or.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, when Johnny Carson made a living out of.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. And David Letterman.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, well, yes, absolutely.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Just be comfortable.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, there's also. When a joke bombs for a comedian, there's something in the reality of that moment. Like, we all feel it, so the comic feels it and the audience feels it. So there is a huge tension that needs to be broken. So if you can break the tension, you'll get a bigger laugh than the actual joke would.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

Not that I try to fuck up jokes, but once in a while.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But I mean. But it's not devastating if it doesn't go well. That's the trick. Because they can tell when you're devastated. I did a roundtable with other actresses who do comedy, and they're all younger and really talented. And the question was, so how do you deal with, like, you all did improv and bombing in front of an audience, like. And they're going into these big explanations too, about, well, you try to win him back. You gotta try to win him back. You gotta. Da, da, da, da. And I thought, oh, I don't have an answer for this. I don't remember bombing.

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And not. Because I didn't.

[Michael McDonald]

I do.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Because I didn't let it in, because I know I had. And I just thought, all right, but we gotta keep going. So.

[Michael McDonald]

But you were on stage with other people, like in a.

[Lisa Kudrow]

In an improv.

[Michael McDonald]

But then you can blame it on them. I mean, I have, you know, years of bombing. Not every time. Every time at first, but, like, you know, it just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

There's no other way to start.

[Michael McDonald]

There's no other way.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. You stand up. I never did.

[Michael McDonald]

It's pretty brutal the first few years. Just because you're learning something as you. Anyone learns anything, but you're learning it in front of people. I can learn something on the computer, and no one's laughing. When I don't get it right away or whatever, I go, you know, here, there's no, you know, you just. That's the way you're graded every time on your progress in. What matters so much to you is their, like, obvious disapproval. Because, you know, you can't fake laughter, right? People really don't. It's very involuntary.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No. And you can tell. Courtesy.

[Michael McDonald]

And you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

When you hear, like.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. Yes. A courtesy laugh, someone make a sound,

[Lisa Kudrow]

you know, in the audience where they're just like, someone make a sound, it's really crying.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. Maybe like kindling. It'll start a little brush fire of love. No, no, it's. Look, we're not heroes in any way. We are just traveling. No, wait, I'm just. We're just minstrels and cartoonists of some sort and charlatans and mountebanks, but we do have a kind of bravery.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes, but that's the other thing I was going to say, because when you said you're starting out and you're just bombing over and over and over again. Okay, what keeps you from quitting?

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

What sends you back on that stage?

[Michael McDonald]

That is. That is the question. It very much defines success. I mean, there's a million reasons why success can conspire against you at show business. Some of it is luck and where you were and timing and whatever. But that's a big one. If you are willing to go back into the ring after you get your dick knocked in the dirt, you have a good chance of getting somewhere because it is knocking on a lot of doors and it is a lot of patience and a lot of rejection. And, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But you're also not expecting. You don't have a chip because you're not expecting someone to say, I'm going to give you a regular spot here. When you're starting out, if you've got the right attitude, there's no entitlement. There's just, oh, I'm working. I'm working on it. And that's what I'm working toward. Where someone says, you're going, that's true. I want you to come back. I want you.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. No, that is completely true. Unfortunately, there's humility, a certain level, not the attitude I did have.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Really? Yes. You thought like, what's wrong with everybody? Did you really?

[Michael McDonald]

Exactly.

[Lisa Kudrow]

They're not laughing. Everyone's too stupid for what I do. That was. You were one of those guys.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes, yes. I can't deny it. I mean, and that's partly the. Partly the stupidity of youth. And also partly. I wasn't always wrong. Okay? Sometimes they were stupid and sometimes it was a good joke. It's just, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay, but.

[Michael McDonald]

But even if it was true, the last thing you want to do is convey that to them. You just have to.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You can't take it out on them.

[Michael McDonald]

But you can't. And I did. But, you know, that's what you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And you would. Yeah. Oh, but everybody was right. Well, when you're in your early years, you weren't alone. No, Everybody did that.

[Michael McDonald]

No, they didn't.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, they did.

[Michael McDonald]

I was particularly bad at it. I was Many people just grinned all the way through it. As you should. I just was thick and brash or whatever. I don't know. But I made my life.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Cornell.

[Michael McDonald]

So much. Cornell, Cornell. As if that's anything but. No, I just made my life more difficult than it would have otherwise been. If I could just have, you know, get it that you just. Just. I've seen. And I would see other comics do it, you know, they would smile through it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. You know, and then go backstage and say, boy, they fucking idiots didn't get the thing.

[Michael McDonald]

Or Sometimes it takes 15 minutes to warm them up.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

They're like Richard Gere in American Gigolo. You know, when he's like. Took me two hours to bring her to orgasm. Who else would, you know? Remember? He took real pride in his job.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

It wasn't just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I kind of remember. I think I blocked that stuff out.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's who I am.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, you should. What?

[Lisa Kudrow]

American in American Gigolo.

[Michael McDonald]

Did you ever see it?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, you remember it. You think it was cool? Maybe that's a guy thing.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I just remember all the guys started trying to look like him after that. Every guy cared about how he looked and, you know, got a haircut.

[Michael McDonald]

We were looks maxing. That's the movie that put our money on the map.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Mm. That was really.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I'm gonna have. Okay. Nicorette.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't think you'll be upset.

[Michael McDonald]

A Nicorette. You have a heroin here, if you want.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Have you ever had anyone. No. Anyone do heroin here?

[Michael McDonald]

Are you offering?

[Lisa Kudrow]

No. No,

[Michael McDonald]

I did it. I smoked it once, I think, my first year out here in 1983. Somebody had it. Somebody who turned out wound up doing a lot of heroin. And I don't think just smoking, but at the time. Yeah, nothing happened.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh.

[Michael McDonald]

And maybe that's just smoking, But I, like, zero. But nothing happened the first time I smoked pot, and that's often the case with people. The first time you smoke pot, it just doesn't. I don't know what that is, but.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, me too. Nothing happened. And the next time.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, you're.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. The worst thing that ever happened to me. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

What happened?

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, it just. It didn't go well.

[Michael McDonald]

Why?

[Lisa Kudrow]

It was a little too much.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I was like, 13, I think.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, whoa.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Also.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And I just remember thinking, my friends are laughing. It's like, what are you laughing about? You're not high. This is. You're full of shit. Because this is misery. And I think I'm gonna die.

[Michael McDonald]

And you never did it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Again, not till college.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And again, you know, it's like nothing's happening. Take another bong yet. And, you know, okay. And then all. I were going out and I have two people holding me up, and we're going through a door, and I just went with my boyfriend into his room, and I was taking, like, a bio psych class, because that's what it was called in the 80s.

[Michael McDonald]

Biopsych.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Now it's neuroscience. And the only comfort I could. I really thought I was going to die. Everything was racing. It was going too fast. Like, slightly disassociating, I think, you know, it's just. Ugh. And I would just. Okay, I know exactly which neurotransmitters are firing too much. I just have to wait until, you know, the receptors can. Then it's.

[Michael McDonald]

It's the worst feeling in the world. Maybe not the worst. I've never tortured in Vietnam. I'm sure there are worse. But in my life, my charmed life, then when a psychic drug has a hold of you like that, doing something you didn't think it would do. And you don't you. I've told this story before, but there was. I took speed. Not speed like the drug, but they sold the stuff like fen phen. Oh, you remember that?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Like, it was diet drugs.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

But it was just. It was some nut from South America, and it was speed. Very speedy.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Wow.

[Michael McDonald]

And I did it with a pot brownie. And you don't know how much pot is in a brownie.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, okay.

[Michael McDonald]

And I thought, oh, you know, I got a lot of work to do. I'll take the speedy thing. So give me energy and I'll take the pot brownie to psychic. You know, I love writing on pot. Well, the combination, I was like. I didn't know what reality was. I couldn't move. Like, I felt like if I moved, I would die, like, one inch. So I was frozen at my desk. I could see the phone, but I couldn't move. And I don't know if that happened for 10 hours or 10 seconds.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, it's just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

It's like, you don't know. I thought, this is hell. I'm in hell. Or.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, well, it may. It also. It makes me wonder.

[Michael McDonald]

So horrible.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Was it my mindset that this shouldn't be happening that makes it a nightmare? Or is it possible? Or would it have been possible to just like, okay, just go with this? And then it would have been, no, my heart was going.

[Michael McDonald]

Exactly. There is no doing that. No, it's just it's sort of like the psychic version of food poisoning, because once again, you have no control, and it's a scary feeling that you don't. I don't know when this is gonna end. My head. With this crazy trip I'm on and with food poisoning. I don't want to throw up. You're not doing. I don't want to be puking while I'm having diarrhea. Doesn't matter. That's what we're doing. And, you know, and you just. You're bargaining with your own body. But please, just give me a minute. I promise I'll throw up in a minute. I promise I will. Just give me one minute to. No, let's do it again now. Let's do it your way, huh, buddy? You know, I'm like, why can't we work together? I am you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And that's what that was with the fen phen and the pot mixture.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Shit.

[Michael McDonald]

So what'd you do?

[Lisa Kudrow]

So did you ever never do it again?

[Michael McDonald]

I didn't know that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

What I would do is never do that again.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, I certainly never did pot with fen phen.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, that's what I mean.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, yes. No.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Or speed or.

[Michael McDonald]

No, no. Yeah, yeah. Dumb idea.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Have you done mushrooms or those things and that's okay?

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, great.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's what my husband says. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. I mean, I haven't done it in quite a while, but when we did it in late college, twenties into my thirties, I think. Not often, but it was just a. It's a laughter drug. Complete laughter. Like, see, you're just laughing your ass off at nothing.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I know, but people do that with. And this is like the 70s when I was 13 and got too high. That was not the heavy stuff that it is now.

[Michael McDonald]

Mushrooms.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no. The pot in, like, the 70s was not as strong. Strong. The fact that it had that effect on me made me never go near any kind of psychedelic thing. Terrified me.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, I think you'd like mushrooms. I mean, it's just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay, I will.

[Michael McDonald]

It's just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Bring them on out here.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, the gold diggers are here.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I guess it's a good idea.

[Michael McDonald]

No, but, you know, I bring them on out, girls. The whole tray of mushrooms. I mean, when I did it in college, I remember the first time and, you know, we didn't know what we were doing, and we put it in, like, a tuna fish sandwich. It was disgusting. And then what? Yeah, I know, but they were the actual stems, you know, it wasn't like a pill. It was mushrooms.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

Like it was dried, horrible tasting root. I saw them, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Cause other people were doing that and

[Michael McDonald]

you'd eat the caps and I don't know, whatever it was, it was fun. It was like, it was really fun. But I. What I think is going on with that drug is it is robbing you of all the. Is it serotonin that makes us happy? Is that the one?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, maybe. But one of those mushrooms are.

[Michael McDonald]

While you're on it, I feel like that's why you're laughing and you're just hysterically off the charts happy because it's just draining, draining it so that when you come down it's like. Oh yeah, I remember that first time I came down. It was at my parents house where I was like for the weekend. Cause it was like my first six months in comedy and things are not going well. I'm just, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

First six months.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

We've already talked about the beginning, how bad that can be.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And I wasn't even up to the bad part. I was pre bad. It was just horrible. So to be in that moment in reality when the serotonin was just rotting, depleted.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Was just a terrible combination.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. I could see that.

[Michael McDonald]

It was just a lot of.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But you didn't have the mind expanding like trees are talking and moving and any of that wonderful stuff.

[Michael McDonald]

One time my fingers looked like they were. Yeah. Little. Not much. My mind didn't. But that's just how people's minds are. Some people can't be hypnotized.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

I'm not surprised. I didn't have a lot of hallucinations. I mean.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, me, I'm very here.

[Michael McDonald]

Me too. That's why I like you. You're very present.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I know.

[Michael McDonald]

You're so not typical show business anything. And I mean that in a good way, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, what I'm about to say might change your mind, but no, because I've been listening to physicists that are, you know, thinking about the difficult question of consciousness and deciding that what makes the most sense is its consciousness is not in here. It exists in a field, the field that is everywhere, but it's not in here.

[Michael McDonald]

I don't understand that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You don't understand it.

[Michael McDonald]

What do you mean everywhere?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, you know, that all particles, waves, everything, you know, subatomic. There's entanglement. Right. You've heard of that.

[Michael McDonald]

Where I have a, you know, New York Times, Tuesday Science Times, education on a lot of this. That's about as much as like. I'm not like. But I'm aware of all these things to a degree. And mostly, you know, that degree as well. I don't have a degree in this and so I get it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't have. I never took physics because. Too abstract for me.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. It's one of those I call. I kind of get it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Kind of get it.

[Michael McDonald]

I kind of get it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Anyway, there are things that we can't explain.

[Michael McDonald]

Lots. And there's so much going.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Physics.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Can't explain it. A lot of it. And then things that we experience that we can't explain what happened. Like weird. Not really a coincidence. It's more than a coincidence.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But you don't want to sound like a hippie freak.

[Michael McDonald]

Right? I do. But yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So people are too afraid to say but now I'm. Yeah, I'm in. Let's keep asking. Let's look into it.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, I'm a big fan certainly in the general of we don't know much. Certainly. That's always been my argument that I've made with people about medical matters. A lot of them think I'm. I'm. I'm too on the. Maybe left. I don't know. Right. Whatever it is. Well, you know, like the far left is like, you know, vaccines are the greatest thing in the world but we don't know. I'm not an anti vaxxer but at all. And never was. Right. But you know, that becomes a political

[Lisa Kudrow]

thing and it shouldn't. No, it should not.

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[Lisa Kudrow]

This episode is brought to you by Prime. What if you had one more chance with the one that got away?

[Michael McDonald]

You Came home.

[Lisa Kudrow]

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[Michael McDonald]

Where is Daredevil A minor. Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's Daredevil Born again.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So what's next?

[Michael McDonald]

I feel liberated we're gonna take this city back over medicated in an all new season. Now streaming only on Disney plus.

[Lisa Kudrow]

They're hunting us. It's time we started hunting them.

[Michael McDonald]

I can work with them.

[Lisa Kudrow]

This should be tons of fun.

[Michael McDonald]

Marvel Television's Daredevil Born again. Now streaming only on Disney. No, but I'm just saying people go to those polls.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I know, I know it makes you. It makes me nervous to say any. Everything becomes. You're taking a political side when now. I was just talking about, you know.

[Michael McDonald]

But I mean, I don't know. My consciousness, I do feel like is all in here. I mean, I feel like I'm influenced by things out there, but.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay, you know, there could be. I could say something and cut you off, I guess.

[Michael McDonald]

No, no.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Because you like writing while smoking, right? Or being altered in some way.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes, exactly.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So a lot of neuroscientists, I'll say a lot but neuroscientists, some are saying the brain is a great filter, especially this front part. And it really. It's filtering all the information you can't use to exist here. So there's a lot going on inside. I mean, for example, inside. If your brain had to be aware of every cell dividing. No, sorry, there's no room for that. Well, there's just as much is being proposed happening outside that we aren't aware of. So our brain has to filter all that out. Well, once you make the filter a little more permeable, you're getting access to some things. And creativity is one of those things that maybe doesn't start here, but it comes in, you know, when you're in a flow or something is really.

[Michael McDonald]

And that's what the machines can't do. Apropos to your show.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't know.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, because.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, again. Oh yeah. So glad I made myself just think of this. So glad I didn't forget to tell you this. The thing this year with the AI is the perfect Act 3 subject for this moment at this time. You're so right on the money.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Michael Patrick King. Have to give him credit.

[Michael McDonald]

Genius.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Here's what we can do.

[Michael McDonald]

And of course it's. Given the rate that AI is moving, it's like probably like two weeks ahead of reality.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I mean, we were so afraid that by the time it came out we would be. That's insane. Nothing like that would ever happen.

[Michael McDonald]

Talk about being at the head of the parade. You are. Yeah, it's such a great subject and it's perfect for comedy and telling us what we need to Know, I just did two weeks ago, something. I cut this from the final version. But I was gonna say that I was gonna do this whole thing without any jokes in it, which I've never done in 23 years.

[Lisa Kudrow]

What whole thing?

[Michael McDonald]

Always put this about. It was about AI.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh. Oh.

[Michael McDonald]

Just to. I didn't do that. Right. But just to make the point that I consider this so far and above the most important issue than anything else, we're. I mean, yes, there's Trump and Nuke. Nukes and that, but it's actually AI that's what that is. You know, Colonel Pepper in the kitchen with the doorknob or whatever that show is, where you Clue.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, clue.

[Michael McDonald]

You know. You know, that's.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't know what he's talking about, what I'm saying. I'm just gonna nod.

[Michael McDonald]

That's who the murderer is.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

It's AI And. But I'm more scared of it than anything and think it's more dire than anything.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, maybe. But to me, the reason. It's not. It can't. It's not just AI it's that human beings have created it and don't really know what it is and don't know enough to put the guardrails in. That's what you're saying.

[Michael McDonald]

No, no.

[Lisa Kudrow]

As a tool. If. If it could have been. If it's kept as a tool because it needs human beings supervising.

[Michael McDonald]

No, it'll probably in, you know, some years, a few years from now, cure me of some terrible disease I otherwise would have died from. And then the next year, the robots will completely take over and nuke the world, because in their computation, we are the problem. You know, there's a reason why Hinton, the godfather of AI said there was a 10 to 20 chance of an extinction.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, and Musk has said, this shit scares me to hell. You know?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, what are you gonna do?

[Michael McDonald]

I know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

What are you gonna do?

[Michael McDonald]

No, because the genie's out of the bottle, right? Well, at least we should be talking about that. It's interesting, someone was just saying today somewhere about this, and the thought was, the only thing that's gonna stop AI from taking over is more AI which was a scary thought to me, but it may be true.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. An AI that's programmed to hack the existing AI that doesn't know better or.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Well, luckily, we just stayed with.

[Michael McDonald]

But it's so sitcoms written by AI it's such a great premise.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And then by the end of it. They've scanned her and she's like, no, no, I docusigned that as if it's not a legal document. That doesn't count.

[Michael McDonald]

But I also love the thing with nobody saw Mrs. Hat. That kills me every time it was on.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Epic.

[Michael McDonald]

Like, the look on her face, you know, and she's miffed every time.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, but that's the pluckiness of that character. I mean, she's. She could be Mary Richards if Mary Richards was much more insecure.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, yeah. Or needed and.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes. Or talented.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Thanks.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, she's.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. I don't know how talented Valerie is, but she does know.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, she keeps doing shows.

[Lisa Kudrow]

She knows serviceable sitcoms for sure. That she knows very well.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, I take her as much more successful than that because they always mention all the shows and.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right, that's true. And she won an Emmy for the gritty single camera in real life.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, there are people like that who the audience just likes. And so Michael Landon always has a show. You know, he can be a fireman, he can be a buck. William Shatner, you know, you're a cop, you're a lawyer, whatever it is. We just like you. Ted Danson. We like you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

God damn it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And it makes sense.

[Michael McDonald]

Always be in a show.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

That's how kind of I see her. Because it's not like she doesn't work.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. But AI picked her for this because who would do, like, you know, there was an algorithm and who would do it for this much money? And. Oh, you know, and they just. By the end of it, they don't want a great, funny show. They just want a serviceable show.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That people. He'll say, andrew Scott plays the head of the network, and he'll just say, we don't need it to be great. We just need it to be good enough so that it's on while people do whatever else. Second screen. And that's why they picked Valerie.

[Michael McDonald]

So that's like the most evil thing in it. I mean, just that kind of thinking.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, but it's already happening. I mean, look, we started. We thought reality TV was gonna be the end of scripted television because it's cheaper.

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But I don't know. Audiences will always tell you what they want. And, yeah, they do want some stupid stuff and silly things. They also want things that make them think and things that make them really laugh, and they want the option for all of it.

[Michael McDonald]

Well. And they want whatever it is. I feel like they want the best that we can make. Maybe that's why.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But not every night.

[Michael McDonald]

No, not every night.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Do you think, like the crown people would want the crown every night or, you know, or your show every single night. I am so like, oh, God, I gotta think about. Yeah. Oh, that's scary shit. You know, like, you've got to have variety.

[Michael McDonald]

I'm so behind on the crown.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You never watched it? No.

[Michael McDonald]

It's kind of a chick show, isn't it?

[Lisa Kudrow]

I know. No, that one's not. It really isn't.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, I can like a good chick show, but.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. But now, who knows if it's what you're learning.

[Michael McDonald]

See, you're not gonna do the character ever again though. You said this is. You got very final about. This is final. Right?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Just feels. Write a trilogy.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It feels full circle.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

We started at what we thought would be almost an extinction event, and now here's the next one. For entertainment, not for what you're talking about, because. Yeah, it might be, but. Yeah. So it just feels. And now it's a trilogy. It's a piece. A thing that got fired, turned into a three part story.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. And it. It merits a. It makes sense for a trilogy. Like Godfather 3. I like it. It's entertaining. But what's wrong with it is that the arc of that story ends at the end of two. Michael Corleone goes from, that's not my family. Kay. I don't know who these fucking gangsters are, but that ain't me. To killing his own brother. Spoiler alert.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Spoiler alert.

[Michael McDonald]

So once you've gone through that cycle.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You're done.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And then I think they knew it. They were just making a gangster movie.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He killed his own brother in two.

[Michael McDonald]

At the end of two.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. At the end of two. Right. Shit. Yeah, that's right.

[Michael McDonald]

What movies do you watch?

[Lisa Kudrow]

One fits on A few Good Men. I can't not watch it.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. I don't know. You're right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I can't help it. Everyone's great.

[Michael McDonald]

Everyone's great. Jack Nicholson, Tom Cruise, Demi Moore, Kevin Pollock.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So easy to watch.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So good.

[Michael McDonald]

So good. Oh, Kevin Pollock was.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He's great.

[Michael McDonald]

Everything he does. Yeah, I know. Yeah. He had a good. I mean, we started as comics together, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And then he got this great career as an actor.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, no, he's fantastic. Yeah. So I love that. And then the Sex and the City movie, the first one, if that's on. Sorry, I'm gonna watch it.

[Michael McDonald]

So you just. You just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Like I'm ever. I'm all over the place.

[Michael McDonald]

You're just like. You don't purposely watch things. You just. Whatever's on.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Some people watch TV that way. That's so foreign to me.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, no. I don't enjoy it as much when I look for it and put it on. Unless I'm with my husband and he wants to watch, you know, something. I said, let's watch something. Can we just watch a good, like, romantic movie? Would you do that? Because it's not his thing. He's like, yes. Yes, I would. Yes. And I said, okay, what about defending your life? Because it's also so good. Albert Brooks, Meryl Streep, Defending youg Life, where fear is the word. What he. See, that's where I'm sorry, that came in. And his great brain turned it into something. But fear, of course, fear is. That's the worst. That is Suffering, that is. And then love is the opposite. And that makes everything okay. So that's what's about. I loved that whole paradigm.

[Michael McDonald]

Defending your life. Such a perfect structure.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Perfect.

[Michael McDonald]

Why do you think so he wants to. He dies.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

He goes to heaven and he's put to the test because he has to prove that he has courage. Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Or that he wasn't afraid.

[Michael McDonald]

Like, if you don't prove that, why

[Lisa Kudrow]

didn't you like yourself enough? Was the prosecution's point? Why don't you love yourself?

[Michael McDonald]

And he falls in love with Meryl Streep.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And Meryl Streep loves herself. And because she does, there's generosity. And she's not afraid of anything. Like, that's the antidote to fear. Love. And it's such a big idea. And at the time, I thought, really, I'm not sure.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, she's going off at the end on the bus. Right. Because you're like, the bus in heaven. Like, that takes you to the next level.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And he's on another bus going, like

[Michael McDonald]

some crappy place, but he goes after her bus to be with her, thereby also fixing his problem.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And he's breaking a rule, which is a fear. And he's.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, but you see that perfect structure of starting with a need.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And a desire. And then having them go away. Show business. When it's good. I mean.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No. Cause it's an idea that everybody gets. And you're not even sure on what level you're getting it, but something about it makes you laugh. Cause it's true. Or makes you cry because it feels true on some level. You know what I mean?

[Michael McDonald]

When do you watch, like, TV or movies? Do you watch Movies on tv. I mean, I do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do you go to the theater ever? Never. Yeah, See, we're like, nope. And I feel bad, kind of.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, I'm not gonna blow my brains out about it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So do I. So do I.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, I'm not saying I'm a better person than you because I feel better just because, you know, I mean, you hear these directors, like Martin Scorsese, who we all know is the greatest and I love him, blah, blah, but, you know, they're all like, it needs to be seen in the theater, saying, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sure on your level and what you are seeing, but I'm just a young man in the 22nd row. You know, I'm just. I lock in the. I've even watched some of your movies in the kitchen. I'd seen them before, but, you know, I'm watching them again. I've seen it three times, by the way.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's how good they are.

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That I don't need this huge epic experience.

[Michael McDonald]

Right.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It's so good that it works on that or on that in my family room, but.

[Michael McDonald]

Or when I'm making a sandwich or when you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yes.

[Michael McDonald]

I don't.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You know what else I have? Oh, what I miss. Back it up a little so I can see. I want to see that again. And I don't need to be in a community to know whether it's funny and hear other people laughing.

[Michael McDonald]

I don't either.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Or, you know, crying.

[Michael McDonald]

I don't either. And sometimes that annoys me. You thought that was funny.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I know.

[Michael McDonald]

Or you didn't think that was funny.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You thought that was funny. And I missed the next line, which I bet was actually funnier.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. I've been the only guy laughing in a theater. I think I have that memory a few times in my life.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I laugh at the small stuff, like that side. Like that muttering. That's right after the joke. Makes me laugh also. So, like Lucy and Ethel on I Love Lucy. You know what made me laugh? Ethel going, oh, what? Oh, okay. Oh, you know, just like the. It felt like they were really there and. Oh, well, I didn't know, honey. I. Oh, honey, I didn't know. Yeah, that little stuff makes me laugh.

[Michael McDonald]

Not that I'm obsessed, but again, like, the idea that, like, the audience isn't getting the best. The idea that somebody would say, like, well, it just, you know, it just has to be good enough. It just. I really feel like as flawed as some of the stuff was in the past, for Various reasons. Some of it, you know, we don't want to get into the political, but I feel like the writers of McHale's navy really did their best to, you know, the writers of the Wild, Wild west and Star Trek and, like, everything I liked.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Star Trek was something.

[Michael McDonald]

Beverly Hillbillies, I feel like. No. A bunch of guys got in a room and were like, oh, people like our show, and let's make this the funniest episode ever. And, you know. So, yeah. You know, it offends me that anyone would have that idea that with AI or whatever. Just so good. I have never phoned it in. I don't. I don't think I would. And I've seen people phone it in, you know, but, yeah, 30 seconds.

[Lisa Kudrow]

So I'm just going, like. I probably have.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. No, no, but what's the movie with. Where you're like. You're with the rapper.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, my God. Come on.

[Michael McDonald]

What is that?

[Lisa Kudrow]

That one.

[Michael McDonald]

Marcy X. I love Marcy X. Marcy X. How I said that was on fucking cable.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I have never seen it.

[Michael McDonald]

It's great. It's great.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Are you kidding?

[Michael McDonald]

I'm not.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I didn't even have to do press for it. I just remember that's how much it was, like.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, I guess it's really funny. I'm stoned now, so I can't, like, remember.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay, you don't have to. That's okay.

[Michael McDonald]

What? You tell me. You did it. Remind me, what's the plot? You're.

[Lisa Kudrow]

My father is very wealthy.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He has a heart attack. Does he die? No. I don't know.

[Michael McDonald]

You inherit something and I inherit a record.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Failing record label.

[Michael McDonald]

And Daniel Wayans, who's a failing record label. Right. Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Is the star rapper.

[Michael McDonald]

Star rapper.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And I'm this, like, rich Jap from New York.

[Michael McDonald]

It's great. It's great. I'm telling you. Nobody ever told you that. Nobody saw it. No, you know what? I never. I was not aware of it until it just popped up. You know, every movie comes. If you flip through the 50 movie channels.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay, ma', am, you were stoned when it came up.

[Michael McDonald]

No, when it came up, I said, I've never seen that. Like, what is this? You were in it. I was like, oh, I'm definitely gonna watch this. I was not disappointed. I honestly.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Wow. And Damon Wayne.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes. Very funny. The whole fucking thing is funny. It's a great.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, I think. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Who directed it? Who wrote it?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Richard Benjamin directed it.

[Michael McDonald]

Richard Benjamin.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He directed it.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, and tell the kids who Richard Benjamin is.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Richard Benjamin?

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Heartbreak Kid. He was in everything.

[Michael McDonald]

Wait, a big one? Well, he was married to Paula Prentiss and they had a show when I was a kid. He and she. He and she was so awesome. Yeah, and.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, not Heartbreak Kid. What was he in that Heartbreak Kid? No, God, the one Portnoy's Complaint or.

[Michael McDonald]

Yes, that. Well, he had a fine career as an actor, but he also.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Catch 22.

[Michael McDonald]

No, no, catch 22 is Mike Nichols.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, he didn't direct it. Oh, he directed my favorite.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, he was in it. Yes. Yeah, my favorite. Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

No, and lots of stuff.

[Lisa Kudrow]

He was lovely. He was so nice. So he did that movie and Paul Rudnick wrote it.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, Paul Rudnick is a genius. I loved him. We used to be unpolitically incorrect. So funny. Do you remember the column he used to write? No. There was a movie magazine back when we had magazines, and he wrote a column called if you ask me. And it was, you know, he's a gay man. It was from. It's this woman, Libby something. And it was just her view of reviewing movies. It really was so funny. If you're looking for something from the past. Yeah, but so that. What a pedigree for that movie. You, Paul Rudnick and Richard Benjamin.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, so why are you surprised? It's good. It's so good.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Surprised because it barely got a release. I wasn't required to do press.

[Michael McDonald]

What does it have to do with good?

[Lisa Kudrow]

What?

[Michael McDonald]

What does it have to do with good?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, it didn't feel. It felt fraught the whole time.

[Michael McDonald]

I'm sure it was. Yeah, it was horror movies.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Pretty.

[Michael McDonald]

Usually rough.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, I mean, I did some independent films that were not at all. That were great. Those were easy. Easy.

[Michael McDonald]

Would you. If they said, we're doing the next season of, you know, Women, where there's been a murder shows.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, Snoop. One of those Lady Snoop shows. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Not Mrs. Hat.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Not Mrs. Hat.

[Michael McDonald]

No, like big little Lies, I think, you know, like a. Listers like you who were involved with the. Oh, please. No, I'm saying. But would you do a show like that?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. I mean, depends on who. Yeah. Why not?

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, that would be great. You should also do White Lotus, don't you think?

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't know.

[Michael McDonald]

That would be great for you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Really, don't you think? I don't know.

[Michael McDonald]

What do you want to do now? Now that you're not gonna be.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, I might be doing Romy and Michelle sequel. That movie. Romeo and Michel's High School Reunion.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, I Gotta remember that one again. Yeah, I remember.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It might do that soon. Very soon. Yeah. And then, I don't know. I'm up for whatever. I hear there are very nice sets now, and people are not like what you described on sitcoms. And there are people that just really want everyone to be professional and get along and focus on the work.

[Michael McDonald]

I'm sure there always were, but way less in the past.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, but there were people that felt like, no, no, it's fine. When movies are. When everything goes smoothly, the movie's terrible. I just went, that doesn't. That doesn't make any sense. So I think everyone could be decent to each other, too, and it could be okay.

[Michael McDonald]

I just remember hearing about how awesome dailies were when I was, like, doing movies. Like, I mean, my.

[Lisa Kudrow]

The dailies are. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, everyone was, like, so jazzed about to just see that, and it's

[Lisa Kudrow]

like, would you go. Did you ever go see dailies?

[Michael McDonald]

No, I was.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You weren't invited, right? I wouldn't have been invited.

[Michael McDonald]

Did I even ever have my own trailer? No, I was never rose to that level. I did like cannibal women in the Avocado Jungle of Death in DC Cab. This is my acting career. Murder, she Wrote. I was on twice.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But did you like acting?

[Michael McDonald]

You know, at the time, you know, I was mid, late 20s, into my 30s. Yeah. I mean, I did. There was. There's a satisfaction in nailing your close up. That is a real high.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

And I'm sure people like yourself, who do it way better than me and have had an awesome, long career, that high is worth chasing way more than it was for me to chase it. And it was never really my destiny anyway. Acting, you're a character. And I'm better at being exactly who I am. And acting is sort of the reverse of that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. It's very hard just to be exactly who you are with someone else. Writing the words for you especially, that's hard.

[Michael McDonald]

But I think the reverse. I think it's harder to be, you know, someone else. Well, the way I mean.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, I love being someone else.

[Michael McDonald]

Of course. That's why you're good at that. Well, you know.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

I could see also why you want to be Valerie. Yeah. It's just so much fun to slip into that and.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Because nothing bothers her. Not really. You know, she just makes up a reason why it's okay. None of my business.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. You haven't seen the last one that I tried to.

[Lisa Kudrow]

They wouldn't give it to you.

[Michael McDonald]

No. It's only up to six on my machine.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

And there's eight.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Eight, yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

The last one is good.

[Michael McDonald]

They're all good. They caught on, you know, the streamers. At first it was like, binge, binge away. And they were like, oh, you know what? People are just going to binge and then cancel. And they were like, oh, yeah. Let's go back to how we did it in my day on tv where you watched once a week and that's why people came back to your product.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

So yeah, of course. Now if I want.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And now they have commercials. They have upfronts again. I just heard there's going to be upfronts for HBO Max.

[Michael McDonald]

For HBO Max.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Uh huh. Upfronts. Because they're going to have one tier.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

A lower price subscription with commercials.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, they already do that on Epic.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Netflix does it?

[Michael McDonald]

No, no.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Or they were supposed to, I thought,

[Michael McDonald]

but somebody does it. Somebody does it that way. Because I tried to watch something once and I was like, oh, I see, I have to sit to a commercial.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Oh, I watch History Channel and I can get. I only watch one show on it and there's always, there's like three minutes of ads and I don't, I'm not used to that anymore. I don't care for it. You can't fast forward.

[Michael McDonald]

Oh, I hate fucking.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's not fair.

[Michael McDonald]

I hate streaming. They've ruined sports. Oh, they've ruined it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Why?

[Michael McDonald]

It used to be all the games run one channel.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So you just like, okay, all I do is turn that with the game. Now it's all over. You never know where the game is. It's on. Some of them are espn, NBC, abc.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Wait, it's not one network or one streamer.

[Michael McDonald]

Spread all of them.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Not all of them, no.

[Michael McDonald]

So we have to hunt for the fucking game.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Wow.

[Michael McDonald]

And then it is harder to fast forward through streaming. You can't do it with old dvr. I know, grandpa. You can see how fast you're going. You can see where to stop. You can blip through the commercials and know you can't do that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Why?

[Michael McDonald]

Because it just doesn't. Because they don't want you to.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Is it live? Streaming Live. Is that why if I want to

[Michael McDonald]

like zip through the commercial? It's not easy to do on stream. It's just not easy.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. It's as if it's on demand and you're stuck with the. Whoever sponsored that segment.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, they just.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I don't know, do we sound. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Michael McDonald]

I guess, but anyway, I'm talking about zipping through things. I know, but it's harder on streaming, okay? It just is. And they do lots of shit like that. I call it reverse improvement. You know, like things were. I mean, half the stuff just to get the TV on. I mean, I don't want to sound like Andy Rooney.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Remember you used to hit a button and the TV would come on and.

[Michael McDonald]

Have you opened a bag of potato chips lately? It's mostly hair.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's true,

[Michael McDonald]

But TV is so important to me.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Me too.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, it's. What? I watch it at the end of the day. Well, I watch it, you know, I have it on. I have a TV in the kitchen, the bathroom, my office. But if I really want to watch something, I watch it in bed at night because I'm just, just watching it. Oh, I'm not taking a bath. I'm not making a sandwich. I'm not unpacking my briefcase. I'm that. So I watch your show from the bed. Oh, it's the highest compliment.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It is.

[Michael McDonald]

I can give to a thespian.

[Lisa Kudrow]

What an honor.

[Michael McDonald]

I said thespian.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So why?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, because you said lesbian.

[Michael McDonald]

Thespianone.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Thespian.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah. I'm assuming the audience is gonna mixing lesbian. Exactly. Let's say that, you know, I have to watch at least an hour of TV before I go to bed.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Me too.

[Michael McDonald]

Probably not the right time to do it. They say. Cause you shouldn't be screened. It's kind of the opposite effect of what you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, no, no, that's my wind down.

[Michael McDonald]

Me too.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's my wind down.

[Michael McDonald]

I know. Yeah, but that light is not great right before you sleep. But too bad. It's worth the trade off.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And I have to watch sitcoms before I go to sleep.

[Michael McDonald]

Is that.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Cause it's not like if I can't watch your show before going to bed because it. No, no. It lights my brain up.

[Michael McDonald]

Go to bed infuriated.

[Lisa Kudrow]

It gets me thinking. No, because it gets me thinking and. Oh, that's a good point.

[Michael McDonald]

You wake up, punch the shit out of your pillow. No feathers all over the place.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, no, no.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, what's like old sitcoms like.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, well, they're all old. What's a new one?

[Michael McDonald]

Well, I mean, like going like old, like Andy Griffith Show.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, no, not that old.

[Michael McDonald]

Not that old.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No. I've done all in the Family, though. That was fun. I like doing that. And I've watched Andy Griffith, but at night. Right now it's Will and Grace makes me laugh out loud.

[Michael McDonald]

Wow.

[Lisa Kudrow]

30 Rock.

[Michael McDonald]

What a great comedy.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Makes me laugh out loud. 30 Rock and recently Friends. I did finally watch Friends all the way through and it made me laugh out loud.

[Michael McDonald]

It was the most popular show in my lifetime I've ever heard about.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, me too.

[Michael McDonald]

Wow.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, it was really something.

[Michael McDonald]

Sometimes I forget because, you know, I'm such a fan of everything else too. I figured. Oh, yeah. And she's also that icon one, right?

[Lisa Kudrow]

The icon on that icon show.

[Michael McDonald]

It's iconic.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah, it is. Thank God for it. It let me do the other things I wanted to do.

[Michael McDonald]

It had a Beatle esque feeling from, I always thought, from the fans, aside from the fact that they loved the product, they loved the show, they loved the Beatle music, but they really, like were emotionally invested in the band liking each other. It was like painful if they thought mommy and daddy were fighting. John and Paul were, you know, beefing. You know, John Lennon wrote a couple of mean songs about. It was like, oh, come on, you guys. And I felt like you, you, you gang had the same thing.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, we really liked each other. Yeah, we really did.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, that. But yeah, I mean, that's good too.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

But.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Oh, that people were invested in that

[Michael McDonald]

for the audience, you know, we.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But you can see it. You can, I don't know, maybe you can't tell. I mean, there were shows I love and I didn't know they all hated each other. Right. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

That's their acting.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, but yeah, I think there was a. I think there's a special chemistry that does come through.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

You know, I mean, it has to, certainly with familiarity over the years and going through each other's problems. I mean, you were young.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

So young people do, I think, do a lot more sharing.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Although I was 30 when we started that I was the oldest one to 40. An adult.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah, an adult. But at the vantage point of 70. To me, that's young. Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, me too now.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, just because I know how I was acting when I was 30. And it certainly wasn't like a mature adult.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right. Yeah, that's right. You know that's right.

[Michael McDonald]

I once drove to a party. I was 32. I drove from my house in West Hollywood to the beach. I think it was Labor Day in my Mercedes, top down, without a shirt on and did not bring a shirt, as I recall. You know, these are the so Hollywood, I call this who was in my body moments. Like, so if I remember that, I know specifically I did that. I think. Okay, if that was My brain. What else was I getting wrong? Interesting, you know, at that age.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

What else? Must have been askew. But that's a male. Women's brains, I think, mature much faster. And 30. They are adults, not a man. Yeah, not this man.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Well, I always. I couldn't wait to be 30 from when I was 10. So I was always, you know. That doesn't seem safe. What are you doing? Why is everyone an idiot? These are such unnecessary risks. You know, I was the best teenager ever.

[Michael McDonald]

I wanted to get a childhood over with also.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

I looked up to adults. I wanted to be one. I'm a control freak, so. Children are not in control. Yeah. So it's a fundamental. It's not like I had a bad childhood, but I wasn't fundamentally in a state unsuitable to me as a small tyrant.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But was there anything worse than when there was a substitute teacher in grade school and everyone was just, like, screaming because it was a substitute teacher? It wasn't the regular teacher, and everyone was. It was pure chaos. Oh, it was the worst. I hated it.

[Michael McDonald]

Are you one of those people who thinks high school did nothing for you?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. Well, no, I think it did.

[Michael McDonald]

Yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's where I took biology and honors Biology and fell in love with that. And, yeah, I liked that. But socially, Yeah. I mean, my first year, we started in sophomore year, so 10th grade was the first year of high school. And, yeah, I thought, okay, we'll go to a football game, then we'll go to parties. And two of those, and I was done. Like, oh, they're just getting drunk. And even more stupid. You're already so stupid. Oh, no. Like, now what? That's 10th grade. Figured that out. And so did my other friends. Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

See? So ahead, women to men. That's why the girls were there.

[Lisa Kudrow]

No, the other girls were thrilled to be there. That was. We were weird, the four of us. We were just weird.

[Michael McDonald]

Weird because. Ahead. Because you were. Yeah. When I got to college, Cornell, the first year in the dorm, I got ostracized because they were having shaving cream fights. And like, the first few times, okay, it's funny. Like, the 10th time, and I said something, and then I was, like, made myself into ostracism. Boy. I mean, I'm telling you, the dumb things.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You were a drag.

[Michael McDonald]

I like, yeah.

[Lisa Kudrow]

You were such a drag. Cause it wasn't funny enough. It wasn't entertaining enough for you?

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, it was, but did you

[Lisa Kudrow]

like sitting around having intellectual conversations? No.

[Michael McDonald]

In the dorm?

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

I had one friend. No, I mean, it was Terrible.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But once you made friends outside of the dorm, is that what was fun for you to like, sit around, talk about?

[Michael McDonald]

Yes. Well, I didn't. I mean, it was rough the first couple of years. Didn't barely at first. I wanted to have a girlfriend. I gave up on that after I was like, if I could just have a friend. Oh no, that's how lonely. Yeah, Cornell's like that. So eventually I did hook up with a great guy who's one of friends for life. And we smoked our first pot together. Really? And, you know, we were pot dealers together in college and we did speed a few times and. Speed. I mean, like, I don't think they make it like this anymore. You would be up for 12 hours having great conversations, or you thought they were great conversations, but there was that feeling of like, wow, you know, my mind is alive and, you know, this person is. You know, we're playing ping pong mentally, and it's one of the greatest pleasures of life.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Right.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. You know, that's why I keep saying I'm no fun at a dinner party. Cause I don't know what to do with the chitchat ever. You know, I just get.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, just pick out one person and talk to them. Yeah, but you probably have that at home.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah.

[Michael McDonald]

I mean, if you're married for a long time, it's probably because you have that mental ping pong that the person is just. You know, a person can just endlessly delight you mentally.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Yeah. We sometimes can't get through a show. Cause it's pause and then we talk about something for 20 minutes and. Yeah. And then it's okay. Great. So you're gonna go to bed now, right? Cause now I can just watch something and not get through it.

[Michael McDonald]

Well, I am just so flattered that you would steal away to talk. I mean it.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Come on, it's you I appreciate.

[Michael McDonald]

I'm finding this out. I'm telling you, action, speed. Speak very loudly. And I'm just thrilled that you like me that much.

[Lisa Kudrow]

I do.

[Michael McDonald]

You sound like Sally Field.

[Lisa Kudrow]

And I have a lot of respect for you.

[Michael McDonald]

I appreciate it. All right, well then a lot of respect for you. All right, I won't bother you.

[Lisa Kudrow]

But yeah, that would be great.

[Michael McDonald]

But I wish I could. No, but yeah, come back here tomorrow. No, sometime. I hope I get to talk to you more often than I have.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Okay.

[Michael McDonald]

But I appreciate it. And I guess we're plugging the season

[Lisa Kudrow]

three of the Comeback.

[Michael McDonald]

Season three of the Comeback. I don't know if we did that formally. Well, and I don't know when this drops, but certainly after. Maybe all eight will have been on

[Lisa Kudrow]

by then, I hope.

[Michael McDonald]

But if not, I don't know where I'm looking. Watch all eight. It's so good.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Thank you.

[Michael McDonald]

I love it when I have a show, you know, that I'm just dying to see.

[Lisa Kudrow]

That's great news to me from you. Honestly.

[Michael McDonald]

Okay.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Thrilled. All right, I'll let you Bill Maher likes our show.

[Michael McDonald]

I love it's a good show.

[Lisa Kudrow]

Club Random Thanks. What am I gonna be 80 and do another 5th season 5 like club random?

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[Lisa Kudrow]

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