Martin Lewis | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode: Martin Lewis | August 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Club Random is a total Beatles-fest: Bill Maher sits down with renowned Beatles historian Martin Lewis for a sprawling, passionate, intensely knowledgeable deep dive into the Fab Four's legacy. It’s a fast-moving, laughter-filled exchange brimming with stories, rare insights, playful ribbing, and a genuine sense of wonder at how four lads from Liverpool changed music and culture forever. Though the conversation never strays far from the Beatles orbit, it expertly interweaves talk of celebrity, the British class system, 60s pop culture, and the enduring mysteries of creativity and legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Magic and Longevity of The Beatles’ Music

• Why The Beatles Endure:
  • Martin Lewis calls out the Beatles’ cross-generational staying power:

    “The normal arc of celebrity physics is you go up and you go down...The Beatles have been evergreen.” (08:25)

  • Lewis coins “datism”—the pointless dismissal of art just because it’s of another era:

    “No one says Shakespeare is so 16th century...it’s either good or bad. Doesn’t matter when it was made.” (09:27)

Lennon/McCartney: Rivalry, Brotherhood, Lyrics, and Love

• The Beatles’ Songwriting Process:
  • Both hosts marvel at Paul McCartney’s habit of building lyrics around melodies, and how John Lennon could utterly transform the meaning of a song (“Jealous Guy” started as “Child of Nature”). (06:20-07:31)
  • Lewis dubs the Beatles “magpies”:

    “They were magpies…constantly picking up shards of different types of music, different genres, lyrics, plucking them out of everywhere.” (07:31)

• Inside the Lennon/McCartney Dynamic:
  • Maher insists that the “Lennon vs. McCartney” rift is overblown:

    “How can you look at [the Peter Jackson Get Back film] and not see this love affair between two guys?” (16:43)

  • Lewis reminds, “The rivalry, the sibling rivalry…Who was gonna have the A side of the next single?” (17:41)
  • Maher theorizes that Lennon eventually tired of “always coming in number two” in their writing partnership (17:57)

Britishness, Class, and The Beatles

• The Beatles as a British Phenomenon:
  • The 1960s British “Renaissance,” the drabness of England before the Beatles, and how their success gave a whole nation a reason for pride. (38:45-39:27)
  • Sgt. Pepper as a Love Letter to England:

    “I always saw [Sgt. Pepper] as a tribute to England...Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane—very English. Everything just seems to point to this love letter to England.” (59:03)

  • The surreal British class interplay within the Beatles and between them and The Stones (57:16–58:37, 69:24–70:49)

Press, Haters, and Celebrity

• The Pain of Public Scrutiny:
  • Paul McCartney’s guardedness with journalists and the instinctual wariness of the British press:

    “Paul was always attuned to this...He instinctively knew that zeitgeistometer that he has...” (44:30)

  • Discussion of how the Beatles handled criticism, from their psychedelic period (“Magical Mystery Tour” backlash) to press coverage of McCartney’s personal life (44:59-46:37)
  • The inevitability of haters:

    “Their job is to, however you handle something, hate it.” (93:46)

LSD, Breakups, and Misunderstandings

• The “Dentist Party” that divided John, Paul, and George on drugs (53:22–54:20)
• The myth-making of Lennon as a “working class hero” exposed (56:13–57:16)
• The “blame Yoko” narrative debunked—Lewis insists, “His real girlfriend is Paul. And they’re having a blast.” (17:18)

Misremembered & Mythical Beatles Lore

• Martin Lewis’ notorious creation of fake Beatles song titles for a magazine article (“Colliding Circles,” “Pink Litmus Paper Shirt,” “Deck Chair,” etc.)

  “I needed to pad out the article...So I threw in unreleased Beatles songs that didn’t exist.” (116:07)

The Beatles & the Stones: Realities, Rivalries, and PR Machinery

• The Beatles themselves were the “biggest bastards of them all”—the Stones’ “bad boy” image was manufactured, their class roots revealed (71:27)
• The perpetual game of subtle put-downs and competitive one-upmanship between the bands (“And Your Bird Can Sing” is apparently a swipe at Mick Jagger/Marianne Faithfull) (108:30–108:48)

Post-Beatles: Solo Careers, Help and Rivalry

• Order of “Best” Solo Careers:
  • Maher: Paul > George > John (for quantity, but “John/George’s best are amazing”). (88:52)
• Ringo’s early solo success, boosted by the generous help of the others:

  “To give away a great song is a great act of kindness.” (91:07)

• George Harrison’s role in producing Monty Python’s “Life of Brian” and the origin of the Beatles’ connection with the British comedy world (87:17–87:37, 72:18–73:07)

Notable Beatles Moments, Quotes, and Song Insights

• On Lennon’s “Imagine”:

  “Is there a millionaire who said, imagine no possessions?” (56:13)

• On the philosophical arc in Lennon’s lyrics:

  “If you were writing a screenplay...to go from I’d rather see you dead to the lyrics of Jealous Guy...very self-aware.” (76:51)

• On letting go of the need to explain artistic choices:

  “Who the fuck knows, I like this, somebody else doesn’t, it’s how our ear hear it. There’s no right or wrong.” (64:01)

• On media and revisionist history:

  “That’s what I call bad faith...when you know what the truth is but you know you can get these dummies to believe this worst thing and they will.” (85:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Martin Lewis on Beatlemania’s Uniqueness:

  “The Beatles have been evergreen. There are generations that are enjoying the Beatles you wouldn’t have expected...Datism never gets talked about—when the stuff was made. That’s the most irrelevant thing.” (08:25)

• Bill Maher on Lennon/McCartney Chemistry:

  “There’s the proof...it was May of ‘69...John and Paul...like old friends...it was completely congenial...How can you not look at [the Peter Jackson film] and not see this love affair between two guys?” (16:43)

• On media addiction to negativity:

  “Their job is to, however you handle something, hate it...People just want to find something to hate.” – Bill Maher (93:46)

• On The Stones’ “bad boy” branding (Martin Lewis):

  “The irony...was that the Stones were actually nice, decent middle class boys who were roughed up by their manager to look snarling. The Beatles were the biggest bastards of them all.” (71:27)

• On the Beatles’ own love of comedy:

  “They’re influenced by the Goon Show...which inspired Monty Python and them and inspired the Beatles. Peter Sellers—comedy, that’s what inspired their spirit.” (72:41)

• On George Harrison, post-Beatles:

  “He single-handedly revived the British film industry in the 1980s—he financed Monty Python’s Life of Brian…” (87:17)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Beatles Creativity & Songwriting Process: 03:33–09:27
• Beatles’ Lasting Popularity & ‘Datism’: 08:25–10:22
• Lennon/McCartney Songwriting and Relationship: 13:14–18:44
• Beatles' Britishness & Sgt. Pepper's Englishness: 59:03–61:06
• Beatles vs. The Stones, Class & Branding: 69:24–71:27
• Press, Haters & handling Fame: 44:30–46:37, 93:46-94:11
• Solo Careers & Helping Each Other Post-Beatles: 87:17–91:10
• George’s Influence on British Comedy/Film: 87:17–87:37
• Lewis’s Fake Beatles Song Titles & Music Mythmaking: 116:07–117:38
• Beatles’ Early Years & Transition to Greatness: 23:01–24:55
• Lennon’s “Imagine,” Working Class Hero Persona: 56:13–58:37
• Breakup, Yoko, and Rewriting Beatles Myth: 17:18, 35:45–36:09

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Tone, Chemistry & Style

• Playful, fast, encyclopedic: Both hosts nerd out, with Maher flitting between irreverent, sharp observations and earnest fandom, while Lewis dishes lost anecdotes and corrections (sometimes to Maher’s mock irritation).
• Camaraderie & banter: From “who knows more Beatles trivia” to joking about British and American tropes, the chemistry is warm and sly.
• No politics, all passion: True to Club Random’s tagline, politics stay at the door, replaced by love for music and the mysteries of fame, talent, and time.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode is Essential

• Deepest-dive Beatles chat without feeling dry: Perfect for aficionados, club-level fans, and even casual listeners curious why the Beatles really matter (and still feel alive).
• Learn to spot the difference between myth and reality, and what makes Beatles lore so susceptible to both.
• Find out which solo years or odd tracks true fans actually skip, and which “hidden” gems Maher and Lewis revere.
• Discover the juicy behind-the-scenes dynamics—rivalries, help, snubs, mendings, comedies—that keep the Beatles story ever fresh.

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Summary by Club Random podcast summarizer. For complete context, enjoy the full episode—ideally, with a Beatles soundtrack in the background.

Transcript

[Bill Burr]

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[Bill Burr]

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[Martin Lewis]

tells you off, you get really upset. Why?

[Bill Burr]

Cuz he told you off.

[Martin Lewis]

He did?

[Bill Burr]

Oh, about Club Random.

[Martin Lewis]

No more live, no more concerts, no more nothing.

[Bill Burr]

And then what? He didn't do it. They killed him. Right?

[Martin Lewis]

Well, I'm not. That looks insane.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Random

[Bill Burr]

Martin.

[Martin Lewis]

That is me.

[Bill Burr]

Finally it's happening. Finally the Beatles show is happening.

[Martin Lewis]

Four years we were talking about doing

[Bill Burr]

this really for seriously?

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, no, it's fine. Oh, wow.

[Bill Burr]

Great to see you.

[Martin Lewis]

Lovely to see you again.

[Bill Burr]

You look.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, not too bad for me.

[Bill Burr]

You look like Martin Lewis always looked.

[Martin Lewis]

Not too bad for an old man.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I was at the beach, you know, bodybuilding contest. They want me to come? No. And at his speech, I saw this. I'm getting it for you. For those who are not watching this, it's a T shirt that says the Beatles, but it's beetles, like the bug. And then it's four Volkswagen Bugs crossing Abbey Road as if, you know, like different colored. So funny.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, I'm very touched. And the first time I actually got involved with Her Majesty the Queen on a Beatles thing, she sent a royal proclamation about something to do with the Beatles. Beatles. And she misspelled it like this. B, E, E, T L, E, S. Great.

[Bill Burr]

So funny.

[Martin Lewis]

That's my retirement fund.

[Bill Burr]

You British people. I had a British person here last week. You take that Queen so seriously. Like, I noticed when you said her royal whatever you said, it was like, come on, man. No, I know. You know what I'm all for, you know, things like that, that. I mean, not really a monarchy, but like something that could make people feel good about their country and united. Something that's like non political. But then everything becomes political. That's the problem.

[Martin Lewis]

Hey, McCartney wrote a song, Her Majesty, so it's not entirely bad.

[Bill Burr]

So you don't get back. I mean, I. I keep reading like, because, look, I don't know what was in people's minds, but they keep saying there was some anti immigration stuff going on in Britain at the time. And this was Paul's protest against the anti. And. But he sounds a little more like you would be pro.

[Martin Lewis]

It was. He was just gooping around and yeah, there was an anti immigration thing. So he was mocking that. And so he did get Back. He was riffing around with Get Back and he turned it into that. But of course, nobody in those days ever expected loose rehearsal tapes to come out. So it was just goofing around. It only came out because it was a bootleg. Became his own.

[Bill Burr]

Well, we. It's in the movie that any Beatle person, probably anyone listening to this saw the. The Peter Jackson.

[Martin Lewis]

Sure.

[Bill Burr]

You know it's in there, right?

[Martin Lewis]

It is, but I don't think anybody took it.

[Bill Burr]

No, but you see him. You see, that's one of the. Maybe it's the only time where you see Paul McCartney, like take a song from literally the moment of just finding it. He's waiting for the others to show up. Or maybe just John was late as a probably. So he's there and he's writing it on the bass. Remember that?

[Martin Lewis]

Yes.

[Bill Burr]

And it's just. And then the lyrics were. I mean, look, I love the Beatles, as you know, but I mean, they have, you know, some lyrics are just gobbledygook because the song is so good and you don't care. And that's one of them. Like, what the fuck is that song about? It just came from somewhere. Okay, maybe about immigration. Maybe it was like, hey, we want you here on our shores. Which is why I'm calling the song Get Back. Okay, that possibly could be. I will say this. He also wrote a song called Too Many People. You remember that one did.

[Martin Lewis]

Look, the thing is the street. The stream. No, sometimes in that. In those things, it's a stream of consciousness. It's interesting the number of musicians who they say they write the song. They write the music first, and then they look for lyrics to fit, which is always seemed crazy to me. Surely you want a song about something, but no, Musicians often write a tune and then they're searching for words.

[Bill Burr]

Absolutely. Or they completely change it. John Lennon's one of my favorite of his solo body of work, which is, you know, less than the other two writers because he didn't live that long. And, you know. But Jealous Guy is a great ballad. And I know for you, probably something you wrote or somebody like you, maybe the poor man's Martin Lewis, what he wrote. But that. That started out as a completely different lyric, but like a blue jay, the way I work in comedy. Also, when you find something good, a little nugget that's good, a little seed that's good. You bring it home to the nest. Maybe you'll have it later. And he's like, no, this melody is great. This. The lyric was completely different. It's about nature or something.

[Martin Lewis]

That's right. Child of nature. This is the thing, though. Use the word blue jay. It's a bird. Native to America as well. But in England, we always talk about the magpie. And that's what the beetles were. They were magpies. They were constantly picking up shar cards of different types of music, different genres, lyrics, plucking them out of everywhere. And it became like a patchwork quilt.

[Bill Burr]

I think every musician does that. They just did it better. That's what.

[Martin Lewis]

Way, way better. Yeah, way better. And also to our ears.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, come on, you know, I don't. You can't be that dogmatic about the people. Different generations have Just different tastes and who's to say? I mean, I don't get Taylor Swift, but she's as big as they were and may, you know, that's maybe something that can't happen across these years. I don't know.

[Martin Lewis]

Listen, I. I agree it's dangerous to get into a better than and all of that nonsense. However, there is something that was different. There was a renaissance in the 60s of music. A lot from Britain, but some also from America. But what was unique about the Beatles was it has transcended time in that there are generations that are enjoying the Beatles that you wouldn't have normally expected. The normal arc of celebrity physics is you go up and you go down. You might come back, have a little revival. The Beatles have been evergreen. And I think, and this is a theory I have, is that it's to do with our attitudes are we don't encourage racism or ageism or any kind of ism music. There's another ism that never gets talked about, and that is datism, when the stuff was made. And I think that's the most irrelevant thing. Saying that the Beatles is. Oh, it's so 60s. We don't say Shakespeare's so 16th century or the Marx Brothers are so 1930s.

[Bill Burr]

Well, you don't and I don't. But plenty of people do exactly that. I mean, and I kind of don't blame them. Shakespeare and I read Macbeth, knew it pretty well in high school, high school, not even college, I think. I think we did Macbeth and I was trying to watch. They made a movie of it with, I think, Michael Fassbender, who I. Great actor. And like, I don't know what these people are talking about, even though I know the basics of the play. And Lady Macbeth, I know she was not to be trusted.

[Martin Lewis]

I'm with you. I can't stand Shakespeare, really.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

But.

[Martin Lewis]

All right. No, no, no. I used a bad analogy. The Marx Brothers is better analogy because the marks. The humor of the Marks brothers is not dependent on you having lived in or being familiar with the 30s. You either like it or you don't like it. The point is it's stuff. It's either it's either good or it's bad. It's not really. Doesn't really matter when it was made,

[Bill Burr]

sure, I did really like Hamlet. I read it in college and I feel like emotionally it hit me because I was a brooding loser, you know?

[Martin Lewis]

No.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, smart, but, yeah, brooding and a loser. I'm sorry, but that's a brooding loser. At college, at Cornell, there was no girls. I didn't know how to get them if I could. It just. You know what? It just wasn't good. And academia, pressure and cold and it just.

[Martin Lewis]

So when the Help album came out, I'm a Loser, that was your favorite song?

[Bill Burr]

No, I was never that crazy about I'm a Loser. And I feel like he did it like three times. And it got better. I'm a Loser and Help and Nowhere man, to me are a trilogy because they're all basically the same theme. I'm a Loser, I'm Nowhere Man. You know, Help Me. It's like, you know, you could combine the lyrics and make it really into a dramatic.

[Martin Lewis]

And that all interested me. That all comes out of a. One of what I think was the crucial turning point, the Lenin. And that was meeting Elvis in 1956. There's nothing John Lennon and indeed Paul want to be more than Elvis. He's cool. He's the antithesis of everything going on in the world.

[Bill Burr]

I still want to be Elvis.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay, but.

[Bill Burr]

And you know, that's the old movie around here somewhere.

[Martin Lewis]

Like, it's always Ghost. But the point is everyone, you know, wanting to. We know this old adage about don't meet your heroes, right? For the Beatles, they really loved Elvis. They worshiped him. He was the reason they started going. And the others, Chuck Berry and others, but Elvis was the king. They finally meet him in the summer of 65 at his house. And John Lennon resolves, I want to be not Elvis. He wants to be the opposite. And all the great material that comes from Lennon after that meeting is because he doesn't want to be a fat guy sat around with a bunch of sycophants just wasting away and doing cheesy movies and being controlled by his manager. He wants to do something.

[Bill Burr]

Hold on. He wasn't doing cheesy movies, but he was just lying around, wasting away. By his own admission, he has said, he was quoted once as saying, complaining that, like with Sergeant Pepper, that, oh, Paul calls me's written 10 new songs and now I've got to write 10, you know, so he kind of was admitting that, you know, he was. He was like, on acid for a year. I mean, it was. He was out to lunch there for, you know, not obviously very functional, especially musically. But when there was no touring and no nothing to get up in the morning for and drugs all night and, you know, Yoko, new love, Right?

[Martin Lewis]

But the point I'm making is that he didn't want to become just a rich pop star sitting around. And he may have done it for a little bit, but ultimately he was motivated. All the songs that come out of there and then the political and all the other stuff is. He doesn't want to be Elvis, as all of us.

[Bill Burr]

He was both.

[Martin Lewis]

We're all. Both.

[Bill Burr]

What we all are are people who do one thing for a while and then we go to the other thing because we're just tired of that. But we're going to go back to it. You know, you're single. I can't stand being in a relationship. Then you're in a relationship. I gotta be, you know, that kind of back and forth. And I think this is what he was doing, but in a sort of musical, personal way.

[Martin Lewis]

I became aware of how much of a big Beatles fan you were when we first met. I don't know if you remember, but we started out bonding over the Beatles. That's how we first got friendly.

[Bill Burr]

We were in a boy band, correct?

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

And we didn't admit that we were doing the Beatles stuff. You know, we weren't like a Beatles tribute band, but plainly, you know. You had the harmonica, by the way. I was so happy when the harmonica era ended with the Beatles. I mean, how many songs do you think do they have a harmonica?

[Martin Lewis]

It's about three or four they went.

[Bill Burr]

Not three or four. It's probably 10 or so from me to you.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah. They were on tour with Bruce Chanel and they heard him, and Delbert McClinton was the guy who was playing harmonica. It was a fab. They were always going through.

[Bill Burr]

I just have never liked the harmonica as an instrument. I feel like any idiot could pick it up, kind of. Kind of do it. I mean, do you. Is there really a skill to it?

[Martin Lewis]

It was a phase they went through that. No, I know, but I remember when we got first talking about the Beatles and you picked up on something you. The. The Beatles Live at the BBC album had come out and you picked up that. John had picked up on Lonesome Tis or something like that.

[Bill Burr]

He.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

He.

[Martin Lewis]

He picked up the.

[Bill Burr]

He nicked the riff.

[Martin Lewis]

He nicked the riff sample, they call it these kids these days.

[Bill Burr]

He nicked the riff from. I think it was Lonesome Cheers. It sounds like an old western song they were doing. That certainly wasn't one of theirs.

[Martin Lewis]

No, no, it was a rockabilly thing.

[Bill Burr]

We're talking about early days, like the 50s, like late.

[Martin Lewis]

It was a. It was a song from 1957 and this was 1969.

[Bill Burr]

But it wasn't their song. It was a song on the radio.

[Martin Lewis]

Right. It Was. It was a.

[Bill Burr]

And that. That guitar riff is in the valet of John and Yoko. I mean, that's right. And it works great.

[Martin Lewis]

But it was. It was. It was. It was in the era where John liked knocking off a song really fast. He came up with the idea for the song. Paul was around. George and Ringo were on vacation. So John and Paul go into the studio. They. This is the time when they're supposedly feuding. They, like old friends, they go in, they knock it out in six hours.

[Bill Burr]

I've always made that same point to some people. And I don't understand why they take this tack that they were hating each other and fighting because of just what you said. There's the proof. It was May of 69. Easily. If they were fighting so much, John wouldn't have had the, you know, attitude. Would have had the attitude of, I'm not gonna give him a chance. I don't need him at all. And. Or he could have called up Paul McCartney and said, I need help on this song. And Paul could have said, you know, you've been acting like an asshole lately. Go make it yourself.

[Martin Lewis]

But they didn't.

[Bill Burr]

They got together one, John called Paul. George, he called the other one Ringo. Cause one, he was playing the drums. And the other one, it was completely congenial, as is the entire Peter Jackson movie. How can you not look at that? I mean, how can you look at that and not see this love affair between two guys? I know the other two guys are important and they are, but I'm sorry that you can't hide it on camera. They're always making eye contact, joking with each other, sitting across from each other. Other. It's a love affair and it's on film.

[Martin Lewis]

And I remember we talked about it when it first came out. And I said that was the whole thing. I'd always hated this nonsense. Oh, Yoko broke up the Beatles. And she was intruded in the studio. John's completely ignoring her. She's just there. He's the girlfriend. His real girlfriend is Paul. And they're having a blast. They're having a blast.

[Bill Burr]

Exactly. You're right. She.

[Martin Lewis]

It's. And listen, I saw this. The thing that used to go on that we know about as fans, the rivalry, the sibling rivalry, the healthy sibling rivalry between the two of them. Who was gonna have the A side of the next single?

[Bill Burr]

That's my theory that I put out there. And lots of the press people have picked that up now. I think people are. It's a very important thing in my life to get this going. And I'm like Darwin with the theory of Evolution. It may take years, but people are gonna come around. Theory that John just did not like always coming in number two in this writing competition. And after a certain point, you can't name where he got the A side of the single. And he. And it was like losing with great songs. Revolution losing to hey Jude. Perfect example. But there's like eight other examples. And I. I just think that for somebody who loves singles and it was a competition, you know, tap out.

[Martin Lewis]

It wasn't John's first brave decision at the age of 17, inviting Paul into the band. Paul plays guitar better than him at that little demonstration.

[Bill Burr]

That's bad.

[Martin Lewis]

Knows the song.

[Bill Burr]

John Lennon himself had only played guitar once before that.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

So there was no band.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, there was the Corman. No, there was the Court man. They were playing gigs.

[Bill Burr]

Do you own a washboard? You're in. I mean, come on, man.

[Martin Lewis]

The smooth. No, but they wasn't that one in the end. Yeah, Washboard. You're absolutely right. Teacher's bass. But the point is, he doesn't need. He's got his mates. He's the. He's the alpha. He's the one in charge. It's his group. He doesn't even need to invite this kid who's better looking, plays the guitar properly, knows the lyrics. He invites him in because the guy. Because this is a musical blood brother, he gets it. And that was a smart thing to do. And he probably regretted it a little bit later on, because Paul, in the

[Bill Burr]

sense that, you know, I don't think he regretted it. But you have to know when you're beat. And Paul McCartney was just in such a zone and sound like Lennon wasn't. But again, I love I Am the Walrus, but it wasn't the A side. And again, commercial success doesn't mean it's a better record. I Am the Walrus was a much better record than Hello, Goodbye. And I love Hello, Goodbye. But another example of we don't have any lyrics and you will not care. We're just going to like, read the phone book and the song is gonna be so good that you're gonna go, sure. Hello, goodbye. Very deep.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, Paul rationalized it. Cause it was demonstration to Alistair Taylor, who was Brian Epstein's assistant, how to write a song. It's just a bunch of opposites, so. But meanwhile, John is just taking nonsense to create a stream of consciousness.

[Bill Burr]

Okay, speaking of that, what do you think of this? Riddle me this riddler. I think this song across the Universe has a poetry to it that I don't find in any other John Lennon song. I mean, when you read those words as we listen to them, it's on a level of poetry that makes me always say, why couldn't he do that more? He wrote songs that were interesting, like I am the Walrus, but again, it's just gobbledygook.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, he was just. He was having fun with that one. But no, across the universe, he. The muse hit him. The music. He wrote five verses for that song. Normally he does two verses on repeat. He wrote five. He was just inspired by.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that lightning only hit once on that level. When you read those lines, the words are flowing out like in this paper cup. The whole thing inside the letterbox, it's just like. It's just on a whole another level that, yeah, it's a shame, but not that he wrote bad lyrics, but I would have loved to have seen more of that.

[Martin Lewis]

But that was, you know, that was when that particular aspect of the muse hit him. But then the John Lennon classic Ono band solo album, which is only about feeling, that's not about words at all. That's after he went through the criminal screen therapy with Arthur Yanov. That. That's. That album for me is probably the best Beatles solo album. Just going to ban the first solo album because it.

[Bill Burr]

Does that have God on it.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, it's God. It's. And it's isolation. Yeah, it's all about. Yeah, mother. It has mother. It's just about emotion. It's about emotion.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, you're right. Because they had been that primary scream therapy and you know, he let it out. And as songs go, I don't know if I love the whole album, but God. Awesome. I mean, what a. When you think about the journey from I want to hold your hand or from me to you to God is a concept by which we measure our pain. Okay. That's called taking your audience with you because, like, there's nothing a 13 year old could care less about than that kind of line. And yet the audience was not 13 anymore. Now the audience was 19. And that was. Oh, that makes sense to me.

[Martin Lewis]

But they took people along all the time. It's astonishing to think that they went from I want to hold your hand to I'd love to turn you on in three and a half years. That's that gap from boy band, for lack of a better word, to breaking the horizon, changing the horizon here. And they just did that in such a short space time. And I. My theory is very simple. Up until the Beatles in popular music, what artists did was they just got better at doing the same thing. You play guitar better, you sang better. The Beatles wanted to change things innately. It wasn't some manifesto they sat down and wrote down. It just happened. And I was. Do you remember Dennis Miller had a lovely gag he used to do once that Michael Jackson and George Hamilton had crossed over on the international tan line.

[Bill Burr]

Great joke. I do, yes.

[Martin Lewis]

And I'm thinking that the Beatles, who are never braggarts about this, they were proud of what they did. They grew up loving Chuck Berry and Little Richard and the Ugly Brothers. But there's a certain point in 1965 when they cross over where they're doing material that were beyond the wildest imagination of Elvis or Chuckberry. They could never have written yesterday or in my life. They couldn't have written things like that. And they didn't brag about it. For them, they were always self dedicating. Oh, we're just a little bag.

[Bill Burr]

But you know, Cole Porter did. Sure, but that was before, you know.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, but in popular, in the world of popular music.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that was, that's not my era. I mean, I, I, you know, I came into the rock and roll era and they were, I mean I was, for the majority of their career that they were together, I was not interested. I was too young. I only got on board like in 1968. So for the end of the. I was aware of them, but like I was my, my life centered around dirt and baseball. That it was not about the Beatles. That's what my sister is interested in. So I knew it sucked.

[Martin Lewis]

I'm getting a flashback to when we first talked in depth about the Beatles, for which I owe you an apology. I brought, I had a radio show and I brought you on my radio show to talk about the Beatles. And you were incredibly eloquent. You knew much more than I imagined somebody younger than me would know. That's where you reference the John borrowing from an earlier song. And we talked about that then. And we talked about how weird was it for a kid who hears Abbey Road first and then hears she loves you and you say, hang on, what's going on here? How did it go backwards? And I think you suggested that there should be a course to teach kids about this traumatic thing of hearing the Beatles add a chronological sequence.

[Bill Burr]

So it is July of 2026.

[Martin Lewis]

Yes.

[Bill Burr]

Correct.

[Martin Lewis]

I believe so.

[Bill Burr]

So that means it is 70 years since almost to the day. Maybe two weeks away. Yeah, like a week away from when John Lennon met Paul McCartney.

[Martin Lewis]

It's 60 years. It's actually was July 57th.

[Bill Burr]

No, 56.

[Martin Lewis]

No, by the way. And I know if you've got that, I know where you got it from. You got it from John Lennon, who got it wrong in the official biography of the Beatles.

[Bill Burr]

See, that's why you have on the foremost Beatle. That's why you do. And I'm telling you, somewhere there's a poor man's Martin Lewis. Who is he?

[Martin Lewis]

Well, I'm fairly poor myself, but my

[Bill Burr]

mother used to say that. I used to love that. I love that generation and they don't give a shit.

[Martin Lewis]

I loved meeting your mum. She was the coolest one of your part.

[Bill Burr]

She was always saying that about. People would come on tv, oh, he's a poor man's Dean Martin.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, I'm a poor man's Martin and Lewis. So there you go. The thing is, John, when he gave his interview, they had no leverage. They not just dope, they just. Every day in the Beatles lives in the 60s was like a month or a year and everybody else, so much happened. So when they were interviewed during 1967 for the Hunter Davies biography, he just blithely said, oh, we met in July 56. Because that was his memory. He was wrong. And Hunter Davis had to go back and re put an errata in the book. It was July 57 and that was. That was that. It was. I call it. It was like a big bang when Paul and John met and so much happened. And that was the occasion when I got the Queen to send a message where she misspelled the Beatles name. So obviously she didn't get the telegram.

[Bill Burr]

This is terrible for the show because we've spent our whole monthly budget on happy 70th decorations that were supposed to come down. Now I hear it's 69.

[Martin Lewis]

We could change it. Your favorite number. It doesn't matter. It's still, however, it is the 70th anniversary of something of. Oh, it's the 70th anniversary of when John forms the Quarry man, which you say is a completely unimportant band, but that happened in 56.

[Bill Burr]

Unimportant because everything.

[Martin Lewis]

I take your point, but here's. It wasn't this. I mean, if you were writing a screenplay or a novel and you put in your story that these two teenage kids who have nobodies meet up and 10 years to the day, almost to the day later, and when they meet up, they're playing John's playing in front of 400 people in a church courtyard and almost 10 years to the day later, John and Paul, plus George and Ringo, are playing to 400 million people simultaneously when they premiere all you need is love on what was the first ever satellite hookup, which I've now learned means something different to today's kids. But that was.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, it was a different.

[Martin Lewis]

But if you put that in a movie or a book, your editor would say, are you crazy? That's just too, too, too unlikely, implausible to happen. But that was the story.

[Bill Burr]

Boy, you really never get over it, do you? I mean, I like them, but, you know, I got out of that. No wonder you're the foremost.

[Martin Lewis]

We can talk about the monkeys if

[Bill Burr]

you'd prefer, but, you know, Elvis did a satellite thing like in 73 aloha

[Martin Lewis]

from Hawaii or something.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, it was. That was a similar thing.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, it wasn't 400 million people. And it wasn't the first.

[Bill Burr]

Well, it was something. It was some early version of the kind of technology we have now where you could get a worldwide audience. I mean, at some point, the Oscars were. They would always had to get up there and spill their bullshit about how the Oscars.

[Martin Lewis]

For what it's worth, that particular event wasn't started by the Beatles. It happened because an executive decided, because there's all this new technology, why don't we link the world? That was it, some kind of Kumbaya moment? Technology. Let's link up the world. And each country that was participating had to contribute something. And the BBC wanted the beef badly, and they were completely disinterested. They just finished doing salt and pepper. The last thing they wanted to do is a live TV show. They just told Brian Epstein, no more live, no more concerts, no more nothing.

[Bill Burr]

And then when he didn't do it, they killed him. Right?

[Martin Lewis]

Well, I'm not limited to saying no,

[Bill Burr]

no, But I thought, what happened again? He knows more about the Beatles than me. Well, before trying a new restaurant or buying a big purchase, it's typical to read reviews, watch videos, you know, the standard research. But when it comes to finding a therapist, people are expected to just start clicking around and hope for the best. And then you find someone who seems like a good fit, only to discover they don't take your insurance. That's why Rula is changing the game. Rula is a health care company that helps you find licensed therapists and psychiatrists who are in network with your insurance. They work with more than 100 insurance plans, and the average copay is about 15 bucks per session, sometimes even less, depending on your benefits. Rula doesn't just throw a random list of providers at you. They help you find professionals based on your goals, your preferences and your location so you can make a choice that actually feels right for you. And once you get started, Rula continues supporting you throughout your care. Appointments may even be available as soon as tomorrow. Mental health shouldn't be a harder to access than physical health insurance should work for both. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit rula.comrandom to get started. That's R U L A.com random you deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. It hey, you ever notice how you remember the people who do a little more than they have to? We had a ride share driver once who carried our guest luggage all the way to the front door. Not life changing but it stuck. That's what going the extra step does. It makes an impression. And on ZipRecruiter candidates can make that same impression on you, telling you in their own words why they want your job, not just carpet bombing you with resumes. Plus ZipRecruiter's new feature shows you the most interested qualified candidates first so you're meeting the right people faster. Their matching technology helps you find qualified candidates quickly, which means less time sorting and more time hiring. Try ZipRecruiter and meet great candidates who'll go the extra step for your job. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free today at ZipRecruiter.com/that's ZipRecruiter.com/ziprecruiter Meet your match on ZipRecruiter Epstein

[Martin Lewis]

does not get enough credit. Ryan was the one who nagged them and said this is an opportunity. This is a platform. A is the first ever satellite connection, but it's a platform. You can do a song. Don't do just any old song, do a song that resonates and that's when John comes up with all you need is love.

[Bill Burr]

I love that period in late 1967 when they were for the first time not because Brian Epstein died and they were just so rudderless that they made Magical Mystery Tour and they were so lazy that you see the pictures, they're still in those kind of sergeant Peppery uniforms that they had like, you know that album came out like just the last the year before but they were like just get the ones we didn't use the sadd but really look at the film. Look at the video of hello, Goodbye.

[Martin Lewis]

They're in the Pop Runner. Yeah, but you're absolutely right. But there was. Listen, that was. I mean, the. The famous footage of John and George with the newsreel cameras there after being told that Brian Epstein's dead. And it's, you know, shot stunned and everything like that. They were rudderless. John said it afterwards, he said, when Brian died, I knew that was it. I knew we were fucked. And that.

[Bill Burr]

Well, they weren't. They went on to make a bunch

[Martin Lewis]

of more awesome albums in terms of their internal dynamics. He knew that Brian was the cement for them.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, but it would. That cement would have wilted too, at some point. They were. Look, you know, they've said it themselves and it's really kind of boring because it's so obvious. But it is like a marriage. I'm sorry. Or anything, where you're seeing the same person all the time becomes a real challenge. You either like go into a sort of codependency or it chafes. And, you know, when you don't have the bond of male, female or whatever your sexuality is. Yeah. Little things get on your nerves and you want different things and go in different directions and are challenging each other. And all the resentments that weren't brought up at the time, you just kind of buried them. I mean, George Harrison is like such a mix of love and. And bitterness about John Lennon. Like, he didn't mention it in his biography, which is amazing. But then, like, he did a tribute song to him when he died over years ago, and I love that song, it's a great song. But even in this song, he says, living with good and bad, I always looked up to you. And it's like, wow. Even in the tribute song, you can't quite let it go. I just like to put it out there that I was living with both good and bad. So obviously there was some bad, which is like what humans do.

[Martin Lewis]

It's family, it's sibling rivalry. It's all of that stuff. Interestingly, I still think. I mean, I used to. Being a tad older than you when the Beatles broke up, it was really traumatic. It was like, Mum and Dad are getting divorced. Especially when John and Peter.

[Bill Burr]

I can see you're not over it yet.

[Martin Lewis]

No, but this is what got me over it. My first boss was the great Derek Taylor, and I used to say to

[Bill Burr]

him, the Beatles publishers.

[Martin Lewis]

The Beatles publisher, I used to say to him, wasn't it appalling that they. When they broke up and they all. That sucked and he said. He said, come on, step back a little bit and just see. No. It was time they'd done it. They all got new loves. They were off. They'd been together 13 years. Are you best friends with the guy you guys you knew when you were 16?

[Bill Burr]

Yes, but I never slept on top of him in a van. Okay?

[Martin Lewis]

That's not what they say.

[Bill Burr]

We just didn't. We weren't. When I was a young comedian at the clubs in New York, yes, you would see the same people just about every night, because you went to the club every night and they went to the club every night. But it still wasn't the same as being in a band. And we weren't, like, working together as a team. We were in some ways competitive. I want to get stage time. You want to get stage time. We're both hanging out, but we also have a lot in common. And I don't remember there being a lot of beef about it. We're all thinking, oh, my God, he made him the mc. I plainly could have been right, because

[Martin Lewis]

you're individual, because you're soloist, you're individual soloists. You're not an ensemble. But here, the point that Derek made was, look, just think, they, they. It's the old thing about lying, dying early and leaving a perfect body. We never got the embarrassment of the Beatles going disco. I mean, you know, I, I.

[Bill Burr]

No, we never got the embarrassment. I. I think I was a little high because I was at the pot store. Woody Harrelson will be very happy that I'm plugging the pot store because it's somewhat my money, too. The Woods. Great store here in Los Angeles, if you're looking for that legal product here, the woods on Santa Monica Boulevard there. Woody. I did it. But he did have a great party there one night with. And Paul was there. Paul McCartney. And I think I seem to remember telling him if I didn't. I've thought it a million times that besides the music, the best thing about the Beatles is that they did John a couple of weird little things, but never did anything that made the fans go, ugh, yuck. Oh, man, I like them so much. And it's still a great song, but, you know, nothing like that. I mean, the weird John Gunhook done heroin, okay? People do, and it didn't hurt anybody else. And there's. There's just nothing. That was an ick. They never gave us the ick. And a lot of artists give the ick. And I. I'm a full believer in still listening, no matter what. The ick is.

[Martin Lewis]

I understand. Well, the. The thing though, that happened, I think, with the Beatles when they. There was an interesting thing, a suspension of the usual attitudes of the British media. The British media before the Beatles were snarky. I mean, the British tabloid media has always been a kind of nasty bunch. And the Beatles, when the Beatles came along, suddenly they were enchanted by the beats because Britain had been in the doldrums. We were. It wasn't even black and white. We were in gray and gray.

[Bill Burr]

You needed somebody for national pride, like, oh, my God, we, Britain, we finally produced something. We hadn't had any since Churchill winning the war now.

[Martin Lewis]

So all that British typical negativity went out the window. And they adored the Beatles. And that was all the way through to Christmas 67. Then they laid an. A magical mystery tour, which was a hippie home movie. And on top of that, it premiered. It was. The BBC expected some kind of Frank Sinatra or Green Crosby Christmas special. And they got a bunch of four guys stoned out of their head. And worse than that, it's a color film and they showed it on the network that was only black and white. So the media went crazy. The Beatles have lost it.

[Bill Burr]

I love this period because, you know, like, I love seeing John Lennon, like, doing stuff like, you know, he didn't want to do, but kind of he did. It's like, oh, Paul's gonna make us get into these 1930s with suits with tails like Freddis suddenly.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah. And do the top hat.

[Bill Burr]

With a top hat and a cane and dance down the stairs.

[Martin Lewis]

Enjoyed it also.

[Bill Burr]

I have to pretend I'm not liking this, but it's kind of fun and what would I be doing otherwise?

[Martin Lewis]

They also later, at certain points, John said, oh, Brian Epstein made us wear suits. Paul said, nobody forced us. We all did it. We were happy. He got us on tv. So there was a lot of revisionism, but that happened. But the second thing that happened, that took the bloom off the British media attitude towards the people was when John leaves his English rose wife, Cynthia, and takes up with an older woman, Asian, from Japan, the country that only 20 years ago we were at war with. And as Lennon, as he said, he went from being John to being Lennon. And that was how he's referred to in the media.

[Bill Burr]

He says it all.

[Martin Lewis]

And that was the whole turning point. And since then, a lot of people, Americans are surprised when you go to. There isn't the same love in Britain as there is in America for the Beatles.

[Bill Burr]

I know that same feeling. Not nearly, of course, on the scale that he. I know that same feeling exactly. When you see the subtle little things writers can do to indicate that they're not on your side. They don't like you, they don't get you. And it's okay, but it's tedious and it's unprofessional.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah. McCartney was always attuned to this. I was working with McCartney on something and. And you never forget the first time Paul McCartney tells you off. You really don't, because you're in that. I'm saying this. When McCartney tells you off, you get really upset. Why?

[Bill Burr]

Because he told you off?

[Martin Lewis]

He did.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, shit.

[Martin Lewis]

It turned out. It turned out he was right. I was working with him on one of his projects. And around that time I'd recently produced the DVD edition of the Hard Days Night. So I thought, wouldn't it be cool on the exact 40th anniversary to have a cast and crew reunion and get together all the people. Because I got all of the actors, the directors, everybody together. And Paul came along. I thought, this is going to be great. And it was a private viewing theater. And Paul comes in and he does that thing that people at that level always do. I might not stay, you know, because he wants an out in case it's a disaster.

[Bill Burr]

Can't blame him.

[Martin Lewis]

He was the last person to leave. He's there six hours because everybody that was there were people he hadn't seen for 40 years.

[Bill Burr]

I love that story. Not just because it's great and you tell it great and it's, you know, again, makes us kind of love them in that way. I was talking about. It's not just the music. It's the kind of people that are. Don't give you the ick. And, you know, I've heard snob stories about him. But the snob part is. Is not that it's what I might have to. The thing he said to you at the beginning. People will. Like. Who want to be negative will concentrate on that. As opposed to like the other part.

[Martin Lewis]

Who was the most important person to the Beatles on the set of A Hard Day's Night?

[Bill Burr]

The Indian dude who Ringo steals the ring off of. Because that's the frigging plot of the movie.

[Martin Lewis]

Woody's stuff is really potent. Cause that's helpful. But which movie nowadays? Night. I would say the most important person on this most important person.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, right.

[Martin Lewis]

Was Betty Glazow. Who's that, you say? She was the hairdresser. They didn't care about the director. Betty was the woman who did their hair And I managed to find her. And Paul was blown away. He hadn't seen her for 40 years. So that was. It was a cool party. But I made one error at that party. I'd invited two journalists from the top end, the broadsheets, the equivalent of the New York Times, Washington Post, the fancy ones. And Paul said to me, who are those people? I said, oh, that's all right. They're just a couple of journalists from. I said, really? Yeah, they'll knock it. I said, really? Because I was thinking I was doing a good favor that it would be, you know, this great anniversary. But he was. He was right.

[Bill Burr]

I can. I agree.

[Martin Lewis]

And I. At the time. At the time, I thought, it's crazy. A week later, out came things. What a boring film. It's in black and white, the Beatles can't act, the songs are terrible. And I went to Paul, I said, you're right, I apologize. He accepted the apology, but he instinctively knew that zeitgeist omita that he has that. Yep. The British media have not finished trashing the Beatles. They're so regretful that they were.

[Bill Burr]

It's not like the Beatles have not gotten some good press.

[Martin Lewis]

No, no, no.

[Bill Burr]

I think the Beatles have gotten some good press. And then there are haters. There always are, for everybo. They just prove that there is literally no one too big. And in fact, when you are big, that's exactly when you're a bigger and better target for them. Better to take down a whale. And they do. But I mean, they. First of all, it's. Again, what are you saying? 69 years on?

[Martin Lewis]

Yes.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, it's settled law, it's settled science. They're popular. They will be forever in the songs. You know, the music is great, even for people who are not like us, who have this sort of emotional attachment because of this idea of how they conducted themselves and never made us regret admiring them. Fairly normal. When you consider how big a stars they were. I mean, yes, divorce. They all got divorced. Not. Paul had second and third wives because he was a widower, but fairly normal. And the marriages, the second marriages lasted, you know, they never sort of had it in their head that they were better, even though they were way better than us, certainly at music.

[Martin Lewis]

The acid test. I don't know if it's an acid test for you. The acid test for me is how people at that level behave when they're not being watched, when there's no media, when there's nothing in it for them to be nice. I. Paul hired me to do A film. He'd made a documentary called the Real the Buddy Hollywood.

[Bill Burr]

Is this before or after you pissed him off?

[Martin Lewis]

Before. We made up with the Real Buddy Holly Story. He made a great documentary about Buddy Holly because he bought the publishing catalog.

[Bill Burr]

Really?

[Martin Lewis]

And he asked me to make a little promotional film about Holly and his passion for it. And I did that. And I left the room at one point and I came back in the room. He was chatting to the most junior person on micro. He didn't have to. He was asking him serious questions about it. He didn't have to. He didn't know I was. He's.

[Bill Burr]

He's got a humanity. Look at all the songs he wrote that are about Jacks. He feels bad for like he has an amazing. A plethora of songs that are just like, ah, this is Lady Madonna and what she's going through. And remember the first single? What was the first single after he was solo?

[Martin Lewis]

Oh, Another day.

[Bill Burr]

Correct. Another day. In the morning she wets her hair. It's just another day. And then she meets a guy at work and looks like it's gonna be something, but he doesn't know it's not another Day. He's not going to be a great love affair. It's. I mean, Eleanor Rigby, Lovely Rita, the Desmond's wife and what she's going through with the band. Like it never ends with this guy. He's just always like channeling women.

[Martin Lewis]

And it wasn't just women though. But it was interesting, the range of things. Now we're moving out of the 60s, so slightly into the early 70s for those who think we're just stuck in the 60s.

[Bill Burr]

So now there's another. He did one in 95. Do you know the song Mistress and Maid?

[Martin Lewis]

Go ahead. No.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, look, I win one point. Yes, certainly do. Okay, the judges have to mark that in round six. I actually scored mistress and made was on the 1995 album off the Ground.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay.

[Bill Burr]

I feel like there are three terrific songs on it. Look, I'm not going to say every song at all in the solo career, but a crazy amount of good songs in the solo career. But you got to pick like 3 off each album and then they're awesome. And one of them is Mistress and Maid. And that's another one like she's, you know, I'm not just your mistress and maid. It's. It's very channelly of women more than most male songwriters.

[Martin Lewis]

But the thing that. The thing that calls part of the dividend in the family, in the Beatles fan family, in the early 70s was this notion totally wrong and totally unfair that Paul was somehow middle of the road and John was some wonderful hero and. And partly I realized. I look back on it, I understand what it was. John took the path of. Of autobiographical songs. He was. And that whole singer songwriter movement came up at that time and that was considered authentic. And Paul was writing story songs and that was somehow seen as Mesopotamia. And I look at it this way. John was a dire. John was a diarist. Paul was a dramatist. He told the interesting stories about people's lives. That's right.

[Bill Burr]

What's. What's going on with him? I always thought that was a creepy song because it's like they know what he wants to do. Really. What. What do you. What do people say that about what. What does the fool on the hill want to do? Because you know, he knows. What does he know? He knows when they're looking.

[Martin Lewis]

But you know what? The words rhymed. That was. That's probably the deep significance of it.

[Bill Burr]

A number of lyrics that, of course, in today's oversensitive world and the way they do not very often want to just understand that people were different in the past and if you lived then you would have been just like them. You're not morally superior.

[Martin Lewis]

Can't look at it through today's prison.

[Bill Burr]

That's silly. But they have some lyrics that would totally be problematic, including, you can't do that. Which is like. It's like right on the. When you go to the Taliban hotel, it's like on the towel. You can't do that.

[Martin Lewis]

Run for your life. I'd rather see you dead, little girl Than see you with another man that

[Bill Burr]

is not gonna win you the correct right. I'd rather see you dead than to be with another man to segue for a moment.

[Martin Lewis]

When did.

[Bill Burr]

But that was 1962.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, 65.

[Bill Burr]

Well, whatever. Whatever.

[Martin Lewis]

It was wrong point back.

[Bill Burr]

I always say, you know what if. If it's so horrible, then you also have to indict every single person who lived back then who was listening to it. Never thought twice about it, didn't do anything about it. Liberal, conservative, they just. That's what the world was.

[Martin Lewis]

Here's something you.

[Bill Burr]

We got better be happy about it.

[Martin Lewis]

I remember you had on my Beatle radio show. The reason I have to apologise for you is it was at nine in the morning on a Saturday morning and I'd forgotten to tell you that's how early it was that you had to show up at the studio. You did show up and you were very cool about it. You were not happy to show up

[Bill Burr]

at 9am that sure sounds like me. But I have to tell you, boy, there's lots of stuff I've done in the past like this. Don't be offended.

[Martin Lewis]

No, I'm not.

[Bill Burr]

Like shows that I, I, I had to look at. Had to or yeah, had to and kind of wanted to look at this 2008 Mark Twain Award. I was a guest speaker on it with George Carlin. I had no memory of doing it. I, I, it's amazing what, you know, disc full. Sometimes it's amazing what your mind. What your mind.

[Martin Lewis]

But let me remind you then of something you said that was really interesting. We were talking about. We were talking. We were talking.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, two.

[Martin Lewis]

That's the second one.

[Bill Burr]

We got to talk about that song.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay, we will come to that in a second. On the show. What I was talking about was how the Beatles dealt with the media. And I played you an audio clip of Paul talking about taking LSD and he's. It's 1967 and he's doorstepped by a journalist and asked point blank, have you taken lsd? And he has a split second, he could lie or he could say, you know what, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to tell you the truth. But you don't need to play this, you don't need to spread this. It's not world shattering news. I'm just going to be honest with you. Which I'm sure he regretted doing that because they then emblazoned it everywhere. McCartney takes drugs and the Beatles and all of that.

[Bill Burr]

McCartney did take drugs. He was a huge pothead and I love him for it.

[Martin Lewis]

It wasn't known in 4-67. That was front page news in Britain.

[Bill Burr]

No, but there was Rolling Stone did an article a couple years ago. Now it was one of those this is the narrative we want to get you to believe. Which is how to. It was not a stupid theory. I think they overplayed it because they wanted us to believe the narrative, which was that LSD was actually a huge factor in their breakup because George and John did it together at for the

[Martin Lewis]

first time, dentist party.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, the dentist. The famous dentist party and forever were kind of locked in together now, which is again so strange that George, you know, living with good and bad and I'm not going to even mention your biography, but at one point apparently he. And maybe it's because they were so locked in then. And then it changed that. There was this later bitterness. But that and Paul wouldn't do it initially.

[Martin Lewis]

Initially.

[Bill Burr]

And he did it. Right. But I mean, I can see how a drug that powerful, which everyone who's done it will always say the same thing. And it's always true with any drug, really. You have to do it. You can't explain it. If you haven't done it, you just don't get it. And that's not your fault. You just. It's one of those things. And so when Paul didn't, It sort of was a rift which, you know, again, trying to make the story fit, manifested later on when three of them had the same manager and he had a different manager, which was his father in law.

[Martin Lewis]

Yes, listen, that was such an insane period. I still think the biggest. The reason why, you know, I love the Beatles equally, but I love John a little more, I guess. And for me, the reason for that was that John Lennon was created such fear in the most powerful man in the world at that time, Richard Nixon, that they tried to deport him. And the fact that they thought that he might do well, which I doubt would have had any impact.

[Bill Burr]

I don't think he struck fear into Nixon. I don't think Nixon thought it was John Lennon who was gonna take him down. But it didn't help that this guy who had the ear of the younger generation was talking sh. And because he was Nixon and a sneaky guy, he sick the organs of government that he could sick on John Lennon. But I doubt if he was getting a report on that every day.

[Martin Lewis]

It wasn't a daily thing. But no, the point was that they thought Watergate.

[Bill Burr]

That was a big deal.

[Martin Lewis]

Sure. But I don't think it would have made any difference. But Lennon was talking about going on tour before the 1962 election. But I don't think it would have affected the election.

[Bill Burr]

I'd love John Lennon too, but. But he also is a real myth maker of his own myth.

[Martin Lewis]

Is there a betentine?

[Bill Burr]

Well, but like he sort of purported to be the working class hero we all know. Like. No, he. Among the four Beatles, the other three were lower class. He was the only one with a little more of an. A nice house. Yes, he lived with. With the aunt instead of the mother. But like it was, you know, we know neighborhoods like. I lived in middle. Middle class. There were houses that were nicer. It was just like that. He wasn't really a working class hero. Of course, their early days were rough and tumble for everybody, but. And then the materialism, you know, the Elvis Costello song the Other side of Summer. One of my favorite. Oh, man, I love that Elvis Costello. But is there a. Was it a millionaire who said, imagine no possessions? A poor little schoolboy who said, we don't need no lessons. That's a. That's Pink Floyd, he said. So we got John Lennon and Pink Floyd in the same line.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, boom, boom. Okay, I would say this. First of all, it's a minutia of class stratum. But funnily enough, there was a hierarchy within the Beatles, George and Ringo. Working class. Paul wasn't working class. He wasn't middle. He was lower middle class. I mean, that's the kind of craziness of the British class system. But John, yeah, he was middle class. He grew up in a beautiful, comfortable home and had books and. But what he wanted to do, the biggest thing he wanted to do was to become working class because it was seen as more cred. More offensive.

[Bill Burr]

We're saying the same thing. Sure, yeah. I'm saying it's a little kind of being a artist.

[Martin Lewis]

So do you think. Do you think Jagger is working class?

[Bill Burr]

Certainly not.

[Martin Lewis]

Now, wasn't it. Let me tell you what he was. He. No, he never was. He was Mike Jagger. Mick is a working class name. He was Mike Jagger and he went to the London School of Economics. But he. You know, people take elocution lessons. Mick Jagger. He just wanted to say. Yeah, well, if you spoke to Mick Jagger or Mike Jagger, as he was. Oh, hello. Well, listen, I rather like this blues music, you know, he just followed. Because that was what you did in the 60s.

[Bill Burr]

It reminds me of that great SNL sketch where I think it was Fred Armisen played the Queen. And when it was in public and they had visitors, she spoke the perfect English. And as soon as they left the room and she was alone with Prince Philip, she was with the Scouse, with the heavy, you know, and vulgar, you

[Martin Lewis]

know, I mean, a lot. So much of the British stuff is riven. And the Beatles is written with all that class stuff. It's written with it.

[Bill Burr]

I always have thought of the Sgt. Pepper album more than anything. I mean, I've heard it was a drug album. Yeah, they were on drugs at the time. That's why it's good. Lots of. I always saw it as a tribute to England more than other albums. I mean, English, of course, seeps into all their music, their English. I feel like in that one, some of it is deliberate and some of it, I just think it turned into that. It was supposed to be a thing about their childhood, but their childhood was in England. So like Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane. Very English. The details in all of it. You really understand what it's like to live in England. Lovely Rita the Meter Maid. That Victorian soap opera of she's leaving home. Everything just seems to point to this love letter to England. Not, of course within you, without you. That's a love letter to India.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay, but actually.

[Bill Burr]

Actually just talk about that.

[Martin Lewis]

All the musicians were Indian. British Indians who he met at curry houses in going to have go. But you are. I'm going to give you 10 points for that because you're spot on. Here's the interesting. The Beatles. The Beatles in their own lyrics. There was a few references to America in their earlier records, but they're all cover songs. Like Kansas City. But there's no references to geography. They don't talk about geography in their early songs. Sergeant Pepper is exactly what you say. It's. It's a very. Is their last English album. It's very Edwardian. It's.

[Bill Burr]

It's.

[Martin Lewis]

It's.

[Bill Burr]

Right. It's just English.

[Martin Lewis]

And the next year.

[Bill Burr]

I love it when you get to

[Martin Lewis]

Magical Mystery Tour, which is late 6, 7. There's a fog up on LA and there's bungalow Bill. There's. Right.

[Bill Burr]

They'd been to India.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah. And there's India and there's Hollywood and you know, honey pie, I just. But you're right, it's about England.

[Bill Burr]

Except for the opening of side too, of course. That was the days when we turned the record over.

[Martin Lewis]

Was the Raj. That's the Raj. The British own India at that.

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[Bill Burr]

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[Bill Burr]

I'm not gonna slam that song within you without you. I'm just going to say two things. One, I feel that as opening songs of side two Go Here Comes the Sun definitely beats within you without you. And also, what was my other important thing about that song? Oh, I notice that when it came time for George Harrison to do his solo album, suddenly there was none of that within you without you inner light bullshit on that record. It was just great rock songs. I'm not saying that he kind of

[Martin Lewis]

like there were a few philosophical point taken.

[Bill Burr]

No, no, that was that. I mean, that's an amazing album. All things most powerful.

[Martin Lewis]

There's a few philosophical things about the art of dying.

[Bill Burr]

Philosophical, but not the music.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay. He wasn't. He went through phases. They borrowed from everybody.

[Bill Burr]

Well, he went through one big phase early on, which was spiritual. I mean, a lot of his songs. Not my favorite lyrics. Sometimes the song was worth of forgetting the lyrics. I don't care about lyrics. If they're good, it's better. But if they're not, I don't give a shit. My sweet Lord. Not exactly how I see the world don't care. Love the song. Phil Spector. Great job. Crazy person shot a girl. Okay, that's all bad. I should not listen to this song because you shot an actor.

[Martin Lewis]

When Paul did that thing, what was it called? You know, the Let It Be naked thing.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

And he went back. Cause he was right. He really hated what Phil Spector did.

[Bill Burr]

I could not disagree with him.

[Martin Lewis]

I know because you told me how much you liked the original Let It Be.

[Bill Burr]

I like both. But what Phil Spector did to Let It Be was what should have been done to Let It Be. This is pop music, okay? This is for people like me. I'm just a young man in the 22nd row, okay? I just want to be entertained in as elegant a way as you can.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay, I'm going to step in on that briefly. Only because George Martin put orchestrations. He was not trying to put orchestrations. But they weren't schlocky.

[Bill Burr]

These aren't schlocky either.

[Martin Lewis]

On Let It Be it's over the top.

[Bill Burr]

The Long and Winding Road is awesome because of the production. It calls for it, it makes it better. It's not schlocky. And you know, first of all, this is the kind of thing it's like when somebody says to me, why do you hate mustard? Why do you hate any food? Who the fuck knows I like this. Somebody else doesn't. It's like how. It's how our ear hear it. There's no right or wrong.

[Martin Lewis]

Can I say for the record, I hate cilantro. By the way, you probably confused all the young, young folks. Side two. What the hell Side they know what the young guy.

[Bill Burr]

You kidding? They're buying lps.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay, that's.

[Bill Burr]

Lps are very hip now.

[Martin Lewis]

But the thing is when. When Paul did that. Let It Be Naked. I know that that's like, you know, George Lucas going back and revisiting a film. And some people. Fans get upset. Set that you revisit and change Star Wars.

[Bill Burr]

But the thing, like, I love the Beatles, but I. I. You know, I'm not idolatrous because I don't think they would want it. And also because they have a higher percentage of everything than other bands, I think. But still, like. Like I don't have every in. In my collection of Beatles songs. It's not everyone. What.

[Martin Lewis]

What.

[Bill Burr]

What do you think would happen if you put out an album. I swear to God, Apple put out something called Worst of the Beatles. I bet you would still go to number one.

[Martin Lewis]

Worst of the Beatles. But here's the thing.

[Bill Burr]

What would be on it, right? Revolution Number Nine. Of course. I mean, you can't.

[Martin Lewis]

You have to be in a very special mood to listen to that track.

[Bill Burr]

Excuse me. What are you, a fucking hate geographer? Hello. Worst of the Beatles. What is on. What are the 12 tracks on this album? Revolution number nine. It's.

[Martin Lewis]

It's not what goes on. Not a great.

[Bill Burr]

Absolutely.

[Martin Lewis]

Tip of my tongue. Which they've finally put on Anthology.

[Bill Burr]

Don't even know it.

[Martin Lewis]

I know you don't just. Yeah, but there were a few.

[Bill Burr]

Anthology. I'm talking about stuff they actually put out.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay.

[Bill Burr]

Honeydones.

[Martin Lewis]

I didn't. I'm not a big fan of their covers. They did covers. They did them very well.

[Bill Burr]

Some were great.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Please Mr. Postman.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah. But I was so happy when they got to Hard Day. Tonight is the first real album when they wrote all their own songs.

[Bill Burr]

They did 18 covers.

[Martin Lewis]

Right.

[Bill Burr]

I like some of them that were B sides like Mr. Moonlight. I love. Because it's just a virtuoso sort of singing performance. John Lennon did have an emotional quality in his voice

[Martin Lewis]

that came about. Those selections of those songs. In the early days, they were competitive with all the other groups and they were Always trying to find obscurities that no one else knew. So Mr. Moonlight was the B side of a song.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

And they discovered it and they did it. And then all the other groups in Liverpool started copying. That's just the way it went. But still, I still think that when they found their muse as writers, to me that's. That's probably the. Their best contribution. And I think it's the part that engages with people most. And I can't stress too much. I don't think there was ever any manifesto. There was no game plan. They never sat down, said we're going to conquer the world or anything like that.

[Bill Burr]

Is anybody in their life? Life isn't what John Lennon himself, who said life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.

[Martin Lewis]

Sadly, sadly the case.

[Bill Burr]

But I love the. I love philosophy songs like that. Like there's some songs are about, you know, just a love story. I love you or you left me and my heart's breaking. And then there's just like philosophy songs that, you know, like, you know, here's the other Queen of Hearts, Queen of Diamonds, here's here's the difference.

[Martin Lewis]

And people talk about this thing about, you know, at that time there was the Beatles Elvis thing. There was the Beatles Stones thing. That was a big thing at that time. You know, rivalry between.

[Bill Burr]

They still report in the tabloids. Sure. When Mick or Paul says something snarky and snipy about each other, I love it. They're both 84, I think. And like Paul said something about they were and it wasn't untrue a few years ago. Like they were really just a blues cover bed or something. And it's true their range is more limited. Not that the Rolling Stones didn't put out some great ballads. They could do it all. Especially when they had Brian Jones in there. It was very creative back then. The Stone sixties singles are nothing to sneeze about. They are awesome.

[Martin Lewis]

But the interesting thing is that in that rival way was that there was some of it was class and geography. When the Stones finally first meet the Beatles. The Beatles are from the north, which is we look down in the south. I mean, half day night, Ringo's on the tow path and the policeman, he's angry with the policeman. And Ringo yells Savannah. Because of that thing, the one with the ring. Take away that one point again. But the stone.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, help is an Elvis movie. It is. It's an Elvis movie.

[Martin Lewis]

It's a cartoon.

[Bill Burr]

You travel to an exotic location.

[Martin Lewis]

Location.

[Bill Burr]

It's just the difference is that with one guy doing that kind of movie, you always can have a love interest with four, what's the love interest? Too many girls.

[Martin Lewis]

Here's the interesting point was that the Beatles. When you think we have to understand the difference between the Beatles and the Stone was the sense of humor of the Beatles. You look at how many photos of the Stones with a big smile on their face. They had to be serious sullenly.

[Bill Burr]

There's no doubt about it. The Beatles were the good boys and the Stones were bad boys. And that is exactly what their appeal was. It was like to the 40% of teenagers who are looking for a snarling face to put on how they feel about how shitty life is with adults ruling everything. The Stones were perfect.

[Martin Lewis]

You're 100% correct and wrong at the same time. Because that was the brilliance of their manager, Andrew Lou Goldham, who was actually younger than all the Stones. He had just done some PR work on the Beatles. In early 63 he happened upon the Stones and he. This light bulb goes off and he thinks oh, there needs to be an anti Beatles. They're too cuddly mums and dads like the Beatles. And he fashioned the Stones to be the anti Beatles. The irony, as Lennon claimed, was that the Stones were actually rather nice, decent middle class boys who were roughed up by their manager to look snarling the Beatles. John Lennon's line was we were the biggest bastards of them all. So they were actually.

[Bill Burr]

It is astounding the way the media not only often get it wrong, they get it diametrically wrong. Absolutely absolute same thing happened to Elvis when he was first on the scene. They thought he was the devil. They wouldn't shoot him above the hips, remember, because he was just such a bad influence. That's when he was actually a sweet young boy who was overwhelmed by success but was really kind and loved. His mother was still alive. He wasn't on drugs, he wasn't involved with teenagers. That's when they said he was the devil. Later on when he was doing things like having a 14 year old live at his house on drugs, that's when he was sort of exalted as like because you know if you hang around long enough you become an institution. They had it exactly wrong.

[Martin Lewis]

But what I love with the Beatles in their films, the Beatles, not just their films but also their Christmas records for the fan club they were always. They were influenced by the Goon Show. Now the Goon show was the British radio predecessor of Monty Python. It was the comedy of Peter Sellers and others. And that Was what inspired Monty Python them and inspired the Beatles.

[Bill Burr]

They.

[Martin Lewis]

This is that first famous thing with George Martin. George Martin had never produced a rock and roll record. He didn't know anything about it. Why did they respect him? He's 12 or 13 years older. Which is a big age gap when you're 20. Now this old guy.

[Bill Burr]

Cuz he was the only one who wanted them.

[Martin Lewis]

Not just that, but they liked it.

[Bill Burr]

Well, that's big.

[Martin Lewis]

That is part. No, but why they liked him was that he produced.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yes.

[Martin Lewis]

And they. And Peter, they love that he'd done comedy.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, you cannot overestimate how much the cheekiness of the Beatles on their first trip to this country. I mean that is something. Even as an 8 year old I got was that. Oh, these guys. It's not just the music, which I again don't care about because baseball. But they kind of. They're like. Of course, as many people have compared them to that Marx Brothers quality. And just cheeky, funny, witty. The kind of thing that comes through the blood of my people. Celtic people, you know, like the British Isles, the Irish Isles.

[Martin Lewis]

We embrace you as almost one of us. Yes.

[Bill Burr]

Poetic people and funny people. Usually witty people. And they were in that, you know, they were more. I mean like John certainly was. Saw himself as a Celtic. He did that album, a horrible album, horrible. Called Sometime in New York City. And there was a song on it called if you had the luck of the Irish, you'd be sorry and wish you were dead.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay.

[Bill Burr]

You know, it was. It was. That was. See again, they never did anything that makes me feel icky. But they did Missteps. It was 1972. He and Yoko had, you know, finally got free of that horrible island England and got to a New York. And they're living in New York on the west side in a big fucking bomb of an apartment with a whole floor that they owned just to put shit that they didn't. This is Elvis.

[Martin Lewis]

They weren't in there. Yeah, that was later in the Dakota. They were in the Village. They were in a small place in the Village.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that's right.

[Martin Lewis]

But they're getting infatuated with Abby Hoffman and Jerry Ruben.

[Bill Burr]

They're in the right place with the revolutionary spirit. Nixon was president. Bad man must go. Okay, I get it. We were there, there and so they put out this protest record. I mean he obviously thought he was Dylan, but the songs were just. Reminds me of that movie Walk Hard where they're doing that Dylan sequence and he's singing a song for midgets. And they're right. It's very funny.

[Martin Lewis]

But he bounced. But then he bounced back and he, he, he. He did Walls and Bridges. He did Mind Games. He bounced back.

[Bill Burr]

Walls and Bridges and Mind Games are not great solo albums.

[Martin Lewis]

They're not great solo Al. But there are good songs on them.

[Bill Burr]

There are some good songs on. But I only have 15 Lennon songs now. Again, that's because he took five years off. But you know, the ones that are good are amazing. It's nice to know that his last one is maybe my favorite of all time. Starting over again. Phil Spector, Gotta give you props on that one. Should not have shot that girl. May say that again. Except that was not have shot that girl. But the Wall of Sound reverb on that. The production on that is so immaculate.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, it was Jack Douglas who produced it. But no matter.

[Bill Burr]

No.

[Martin Lewis]

Yes, sadly it was.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, that's not Phil Spector. Well, they learned it from Phil Spector.

[Martin Lewis]

You could say homage to Phil Spector.

[Bill Burr]

This guy sounds like the poor man's Phil Spector.

[Martin Lewis]

It has, it has that.

[Bill Burr]

Who is. Who produced that?

[Martin Lewis]

Jack Douglas, who was a terrific guy who worked with Arrowsmith. And he, he'd actually, he passed recently, but he bought or something that album. There was some beautiful songs. Is there anything Woman. Here's the line when you were talking about Jealous guy. First of all, jealous guy and woman right In Jealous guy, how many macho, macho men didn't say things like, I, I didn't mean to hurt you. I'm just a jealous guy. You didn't own up to jealousy and help.

[Bill Burr]

Help saying plainly he didn't because we talked about it. He had a song that says, I'd rather see you dead than a little.

[Martin Lewis]

But he also had. He also had a song that said, every now and then I feel so insecure.

[Bill Burr]

Y.

[Martin Lewis]

Grown men did not. Macho guys did not admit to insecurity.

[Bill Burr]

It's a great arc to go if you were writing a screenplay or looking for character arcs and development to go from I'd rather see you dead to the lyrics of Jealous Guy, which are very self aware and talking about who he is. I'm just a jealous guy.

[Martin Lewis]

And isn't the essence of him in that song Woman, where he says, I know you understand the little child. Yeah, yeah, that's it. He's starting to get.

[Bill Burr]

He's starting to understand out that Yoko had a hold on him. I am not a Yoko basher. And I'm sure that there was elements of that that were completely real. And then there's some stuff that I didn't know that. I mean, I did the review of that book. 150 glimpses of the Beatles. Yes, One of the. I love doing that. It was during the pandemic. I had the time and I wrote a book review for the New York Times of that book. And I mean, at least in that book, he says, I did not realize until I read it. Yoko sent him letters every day when he was in India and would jump in the car. And then he, like, deadpanned something like, you know, perseverance was her secret weapon. And I didn't know that. Like the fact that she went after him so hard and that Linda. Linda. That. That Linda and Yoko want. Went first. Went after the other one. Linda went after John and she went after. Is that right?

[Martin Lewis]

There's an element of that, for sure. Interestingly, I mean, I think that they were fortunate in the people around them. Fortunate in the romantic partners they had the winner around. Look at this. If the Beatles had been in the clutches of Colonel Tom park, we would never have had what they evolved to do because he'd have made them continue to do the same.

[Bill Burr]

I disagree, because Elvis was a sad hillbilly and they're smart, savvy guys and they would never have put up with a Colonel Tom Parker.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, okay, but that's true.

[Bill Burr]

They're just not Elvis Y. I love Elvis, but he was like pure talent. And I'm not. I wasn't surprised or I'm not surprised now that he only left a.42. But how did you feel about him

[Martin Lewis]

going to Nixon and saying the Beatles are un American, which the Beatles were most amused by?

[Bill Burr]

I fucking love it. I fucking love this drug addict getting on the plane to the guy who invented the Drug Enforcement Administration, all stone, wearing the sunglasses, left the house with no money. What is the form of currency, sir? I'm Elvis Presley is my form of currency. Don't you see the cape? And gets to the White House, like,

[Martin Lewis]

without an appointment, wearing a cape, like,

[Bill Burr]

sir, Elvis is at the front gate. Damn, we almost had the Vietnam War. So send him in, Henry. I'll get back to the later Elvis. And then, like, you're right. It's all just because it's very Trumpian, you know, it's like, I can get away with this. I'm going to do it. It's a bar fight. I'm going to pick this up and use it. And, man, he wanted to get the Beatles. And, you know, you can't blame him when. When somebody eats your lunch as bad as they did his. Not that he wasn't old news by the time they came along. And I mean that was.

[Martin Lewis]

It was, it was. But there was an irony there. Here's the thing. Paul forgave him. He just said, you know, disappointed, happy, but didn't stop loving the music he'd created. Didn't say, you know, I hate Elvis or anything like that. John was a cervic when Elvis died. Elvis died when he went in the arcade. Yeah, that was his line and not true.

[Bill Burr]

Elvis died in a lot of ways for a long time. The voice never left him. There's. There's not a lot of great stuff from the, from the eight or nine years when he did movie musicals. Those 30 travelogues he did, they were all the same movie. It was not. But you know why? As men say. What's that? When that came from Only Fool's Rushing Only. Yeah, I mean he still did that in context. It's a good ballad. It's not the greatest thing ever.

[Martin Lewis]

No, the thing was at the point, listen, Elvis couldn't have rebelled against Colonel Tom Parker. In the early years, by the time of 66, 6, 67, 68, there were artists who did rebel against their managers. They sought a lot lawyer and got out of the deal.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, he was, he was just sad hillbilly who like couldn't figure out how to like break free of his father figure. He's weird because he's. What he was always doing was mourning his mother. He needed a mother figure. He had a father. Seemed like a nice guy who kind of went along with everything. How could he not? I mean, you know, but listen, he

[Martin Lewis]

had the talent, he inspired at the time when that hit, when that hit in Brooklyn, Britain, it made the impact. If there's no Elvis, there's no Beatles.

[Bill Burr]

Elvis had an amazing period when he finally got out of the movie contract when he was a 35 year old grown ass man and he wasn't singing about Hound Dog and all that. I don't like that music at all. But the music he did from like 1969, suspicious minds through almost.

[Martin Lewis]

Yes, great songs. Oh no, that's right.

[Bill Burr]

I don't think, I don't think before that song Elvis really cared that much about what was going on in the ghetto. I never took those lyrics terribly to heart. You're like, oh, Elvis is, you know what Something that.

[Martin Lewis]

It also reminds me that thing where Paul has sometimes been accused of embellishing or revisiting history. That happens with people. Your memories aren't perfect and you revisit and you tell a story. But there was a famous thing that happened when the song Blackbird was being re examined and being talked about. And Paul gave an interview somewhere where he was talking about Blackbird and said that, you know, Angela Davis was something I was thinking about. And he got pounced on because the truth. Yeah, because Angela Davis wasn't known in America or Britain in 1968. She wasn't known till after he wrote that song. So for a year or so, people were piling on Paul and saying, what a bloody hypocrite he's making it. And I thought, that's not right. I know it's not right. And I did some delving in the archives and I found a rare audio tape that proved that Paul was telling the truth. In 1968 he did. He produced an album with Mary Hopkin. You remember she did a song called

[Bill Burr]

with the Days and he went to number one. Yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

And he was friends with an old Russian folk song by Gene Raskin. And she. Paul was very friendly at that time with Donovan, who'd been to the. With them. To the India, to the Maharishi.

[Bill Burr]

What was the follow up single, those

[Martin Lewis]

Are the Days after that tenor Harbor. No Goodbye.

[Bill Burr]

Correct for 10 points.

[Martin Lewis]

And then Tamaha.

[Bill Burr]

That's a better song. Yes, but.

[Martin Lewis]

But with the. With that thing. So Donovan is. He's. Paul's asked Donovan, can you come up with a song for Mary? So Donovan had written a couple of songs and they're in the studio. I found the audio tape, they're rehearsing and as they do when they warm up, they're playing each other's songs. So Donovan sings Sunshine Superman, Paul sings Blackbird. And Donovan said, oh, that's the one you were writing in India. And then Paul says, yeah, I got into trouble with that last night. What are you talking about? And Paul said, I ran into Diana Ross at a club in London and she started giving him grief about writing a song and using the word bird, which is an English term for a girl, about black women. And so there's Paul talking about it. That it. And then Paul says, oh, I saw some news footage on TV about these black women protesting in America. So there it was from 1968. Paul did write the song based on that, but he'd been tripped up because he misremembered and threw in Angela Davis name. And that was somehow he was thrown against it.

[Bill Burr]

Well, that's what I call bad faith, which there's a lot of that in the media. Bad faith means when you know what the truth is. But you know, you can get these dummies to believe this worst thing and they will. Because when people just want to believe people have shitty lives and they want to believe bad things about celebrities, people who have good lives, they're not really. Not really rooting for that. It's a lot more helpful if you're going through some sort of horrible divorce or a drug addiction or Britney Spears or whatever you're doing. That's like, like sad and terrible. It's like, oh well, you know, that's. That's what happens when you become a famous pop star. So good on me that I didn't.

[Martin Lewis]

I mean it's a part of my Beatles. Fashion is not just the Beatles and that era. It's the ancillary things, the things they did afterwards. And in particular, I know this first time from a couple of perspectives. George Harrison is. You know, people used to mock some of the spirituality got a little bit popular. And sometimes on the spirituality he was sincere but you know, he got a little overblown. He did two things that are really crucial. One, the concept of Bangladesh. Before then there had never been a pulling together.

[Bill Burr]

Groundbreaking. August 1, 1971. Kids, look it up.

[Martin Lewis]

You did. Absolutely. And when I got involved with John Cleese and Monty Python we did the Secret Policeman's Ball thing. What were we looking at? We were looking at concept of Bangladesh. Could we do with comedy what he'd done with rock and roll?

[Bill Burr]

I was 15. It was on the front page of the New York Times. Of course there was no color back then in newspapers. But he was wearing an orange shirt with a white suit. You know, he just looked cool. A beard, hot backup singers behind him who I'm sure were in love with him. I mean it was just like. And it was Madison Square Garden and Ringo was behind him playing drums. It was just for a 15 year old. It was like one of the. And good cause. And you know, back then they really. We have rock raised $3 million. Oh my God, what an ungodly sum.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, Alan Klein find it hard to live on that.

[Bill Burr]

But let's talk about solo careers because.

[Martin Lewis]

Sorry, can I finish one? One small point. The other thing he did was he single handedly almost revived the British film industry in the 1980s. It was going to. And he financed Monty Python's Life of Brian. Their backers had pulled out. He financed the film. He financed all these other films with Bob Hoskins.

[Bill Burr]

Long Beetle fans know all this.

[Martin Lewis]

No, no, I'm saying.

[Bill Burr]

But what they don't Know.

[Martin Lewis]

Okay. All right.

[Bill Burr]

They know these stories.

[Martin Lewis]

But. But will. What? Your. Your following is way more than just Beatles fans.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, but I bet you. You have to kind of be Beetle May. Maybe you're right. Maybe that's not true.

[Martin Lewis]

I don't think everybody knows everything.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I've just heard these stories. There is lore. I mean, it almost you could see how things like this could become a religion. Same thing with Elvis. You know, it was very similar to Jesus, the refulgent life giver. The white silk thing. I mean, it was just. And people worship him. Some think he's still alive. He was resurrected. So there is all that. But I want to have ask. Come on. Like, if you had to pick or put in order solo career output. One, two, three.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, it's unequal.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, of course, of course we understand. John is going to be third because he died. That's just what happened. But. Okay, I'll go. Jesus, you got. Are you their publicist?

[Martin Lewis]

I'm not their fucking publicist. Okay.

[Bill Burr]

I would put Paul first because he just has the most, I think songs, but I don't know. George also has like, I don't know. I'm guessing 50 ones that I just love. And I only keep the ones I like. Now. It's uneven. All Things Must Pass every song. No, but like, boy, there's six or eight that are just great. Most of the uptempo ones. Although Beware of Darkness. I mean, boy, talk about a lugubrious toe tapper. But an amazing song. Like, I mean, I live my life by one rule. Beware of Maya. I don't know what it is, but I'm always on the lookout for it. But it's a great album and to your point, like, just a lot of spirituality shoved down your throat. I just accept it. It's fine. I don't care. I will say this, his last album, I feel he finally wrote a spiritual song that didn't hit you over the head like the other ones did. And I thought it was his best one. Probably people don't know it. Cause it's on the last album and it's called the Rising Sun. Do you know it?

[Martin Lewis]

I do know it a little bit, yes.

[Bill Burr]

It's one of. I just think it's so beautiful. And it's not like all this, you know, right on the table. Remember the one. John and Paul in the material world. Living in the material. John and Paul in the material world. Like, you're not like George Iverson living in his castle wasn't part of the material world. In that fucking awesome place he had.

[Martin Lewis]

Listen, it was awful for all of them having that wretched tall shadow of the Beatles. I mean, you have to admire how McCartney got on with a solo career after the Beatles. It was so wretched. It was such a big daunting thing to deal with. And Gorming Wins, which, let's face it, it was really Paul McCartney and his band. But it was, it was the way he chose to deal with it. They all dealt with it in different ways. Did you know that Ringo was the most initially, in the first two years, was the most successful solo Beatle. He had more hits.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, he had a lot of, a lot of hit singles. Again, the thing that makes me so emotional about them, the way the other Beatles helped him. George gave him photos. Yes, right. Or was it Don't Come Easy.

[Martin Lewis]

And it Don't Come Easy. And they worked on together on Back Off Food.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, he wrote. There's a George Housen version of it Don't Come Easy. It's a great song. To give away a great song is a great act of kindness. I know John suggested some songs that he did like, like you're 16.

[Martin Lewis]

And he wrote I'm the Greatest.

[Bill Burr]

Okay, that's nice.

[Martin Lewis]

And our mutual friend Richard Perry produced that album. The Ringo, which was, was just terrific.

[Bill Burr]

I don't know about that.

[Martin Lewis]

Oh, no, it was great pop.

[Bill Burr]

It was, it was great pop. I, I, look, I can only tell you what I, I mean, there, there was a good song at the end that I liked had for a long time. For you and me, babe, the end is down here. And he thanks everybody at the end. It's a lot of talking on the record, so it kind of had to go. But no, he's got some, I mean, there's a song, he did a tribute song for John, John for George called Never without you. Never without that song is a killer. Make you cry. It's an. And it's interesting. He did a tribute song to George. George did a tribute song to John. Paul did a tribute song to John. But, but who did? And Ringo did a tribute song to George, but not to John. It's interesting that by the tribute songs we can read between the lines.

[Martin Lewis]

You seem to be quite a Beatles fan there. You really know your stuff.

[Bill Burr]

Well, the, the, the, the Paul McCartney tribute song is called Here Today.

[Martin Lewis]

Here Today is like one of McCartney's finest songs. It's pure emotion. The, the, the essence of it, the way that he writes, wrote it, the construction of it. He did a lot. One of those Little pop up things. Amoeba Records. And he, he did that. I, I was invited along to it. It was absolutely stunning. He breaks up in the middle of the song. It just suddenly hits it really. And he does this little vocal trick because he's starting to. He's starting to lose it. And he does this vocal trick. We go like a little way to like a reboot his voice voice so he won't break up. It was astonishing.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Martin Lewis]

And there's a clip of it online, but I remember watching it at the time and you were so moved by it. But it was uncharacteristic for Paul to be that emotional. By the way, do you remember all the he was given when he said when he was asked how he felt about John being showed? Yeah, you know, it's a drag. He was, oh, how inconsistent. That's just, you know, you're being doorstep back out. What do you think?

[Bill Burr]

The world, it's haters. It's such a world just for haters. And their job is to, however you handle something, hate it. I always say it's like relationship breakups when you break up, however you do it, the other person just wants to hate that. If you're honest, you should have spared my feelings. If you spared my feelings, you should have been honest. Because they just want to hate you. You, they. And it's okay.

[Martin Lewis]

We've all been as homo sapiens.

[Bill Burr]

Like they just. People just want to find something to at and hate. And there was no thing he could have said that would have satisfied them, but they weren't. Because when there's no like, why should

[Martin Lewis]

he have to share his innermost grief to a TV camera crew at that split second the day after? And there's a mo. In the movie Daniel, there's a great line where the. The daughter of the Rosenbergs as depicted is really very sad. And somebody says, well, why can't you get over it? And the line is, do you ever, Curtis? She might just be inconsolable. I thought, what a word. Inconsolable, right?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

I think that's probably how Paul felt at that moment and why.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, also he said it's a drag. It's not like he said, oh good, you know, he's dead. You know what? I never liked the guy. I said, man, this argument about who wrote in my life. I say, I did it and I'm glad he's. That didn't happen. He said, it's a drag. Which it was.

[Martin Lewis]

Which it was.

[Bill Burr]

And the continues to be. I mean, I can't believe it's like coming up on 50 years. Are we old? I mean, 50, 1980. So it's been 46 years since John Lennon. That's. I mean, when you think about 70 years. Okay, say let the Beatles were. Were certainly right in the middle of being the biggest stars in the world 60 years ago. Let's go back to 1966.

[Martin Lewis]

What.

[Bill Burr]

When I was 10, what would have been a song from 1906. No, from 1896 would be 60 years before when I was listening to the Beatles. That's what kids must think about us talking about a song from 1966. Except for the fact that the. The Beatles music definitely endured in the culture. It's in commercials. Kids do know it, Whereas I, at 1896, what would be a song I would know from there? Maybe you could. Oh, okay. You know, you know, I don't know. Mary row your boat or some.

[Martin Lewis]

Something.

[Bill Burr]

No. Ancient song and Alexander's Ragtime Band or some shit. But those songs died out. Beatles songs didn't die out. Yes, more than in their heyday, of course, but they didn't die out nearly to the same degree as something from 1896 would. Did for me.

[Martin Lewis]

Right. And you're right. And I think that's partly because I think it was also. It was like almost a perfect storm of the way media developed and the transistor radio and everything that would never happen again today. That what happened with the Beatles on that level could never happen because it was just a confluence.

[Bill Burr]

Technology helped them.

[Martin Lewis]

The technology and the times. It just happened. It was meant to be, if you believe in that sort of thing. But certainly, no, I don't think that

[Bill Burr]

can ever recreate the fact that they were playing stadium concerts through the PA system of the stadium. None of their own equipment. They just came in there and they used the same speaker that the team

[Martin Lewis]

used the whole joke announcement.

[Bill Burr]

Number seven batting number seven, Mickey Mantle, number seven. That's the speaker that they were and playing to. But, you know, nobody was listening and

[Martin Lewis]

they couldn't hear themselves. No wonder they stopped. Now is the 60th anniversary of the 60th anniversary of the Beatles quitting live performance, which was the breakthrough point at Candlestick park end of August 1966. They said that we're done, we're over. And Brian Epstein thought that was the end for them. He didn't. But they wanted. They wanted out. It wasn't that they started. Oh, it would be better in the studio. They just wanted to stop.

[Bill Burr]

I don't believe in the universe, although I Know it's up there. But if I did, I would say, like, 1966. Six. Six. I never was a big fan of sixes. You know, the devil thing. I'm sure it's. I just so, like that year and then it was just like everything conspired against them. Like, they just had ugliness all.

[Martin Lewis]

Well, if you want to make it 666, it's June 66.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

That's when the bigger than we're bigger than Jesus blows up out of that one.

[Bill Burr]

Plus getting roughed up in Manila in Asia. The Japanese, they were, you know, I think they didn't rough them up, but I think they don't, like, make noise during a concert. It was like, shit like that. Like, oh, wow.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, it was because of Imelda Malchus. They turned down an invitation.

[Bill Burr]

Philippines, not Japan.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

The audience just didn't like. They were like, having the time of their life and going.

[Martin Lewis]

It's different. Audience reaction.

[Bill Burr]

No, Manila was actually scary because they seemed to be. I mean, now we would say they were symbolizers, symbolizing colonization and colonizers. Because here are these white guys coming in to the Philippines and insulting the first lady. Like, would they do that to a white first lady? Would they do that to the queen? No, but to our queen, they can't be bothered to show up. You know. You know, that was the subtext. And. And, you know, the British certainly earned that. They. I mean, for the kids today who don't know what colonization is, that's some actual colonization. When you go into a place that's nothing like you, and you make it. I mean, you know, India is very British colonized, some for the good. And that's the great scene in the Monty Python movie about. What did the Romans ever done for you?

[Martin Lewis]

Apart from this? Apart from that. The wine. The water. The alcohol, wine, sanitation. Yeah, but apart from that, what else have you done?

[Bill Burr]

Safety, aqueducts, agriculture. What have they ever.

[Martin Lewis]

And thank God George Harrison financed that film. And you won't remember. Do you remember his line when they said, why did you put up 5 million? He said, I wanted to see the film.

[Bill Burr]

That's. That's nothing more baller than that.

[Martin Lewis]

They. They did have that kind of thing. I. I remember with.

[Bill Burr]

Let's go through his great songs. Okay, okay. All Things Must Pass. Bunch of great songs on that. Never crazy about the title song. Lugubrious and slow, some of them were. But the uptempo ones. The Lord is a wedding on you all. And, you know, just wah, wah. You know, just really it's funny, when he. When he wanted to rock, it didn't matter if the lyrics matched, like all those years ago, which. The tribute song. It's like a very upbeat song about.

[Martin Lewis]

It wasn't written as a John tribute. It was a melody he got.

[Bill Burr]

The lyrics don't match. That's right.

[Martin Lewis]

The melody had been written the previous year and he repurposes it. That's what the Beatles are very economical. They repurpose. But the interesting thing is. Do you remember the track one of side one of that album?

[Bill Burr]

What album?

[Martin Lewis]

Of the. All Things Must Pass. Because it's very significant.

[Bill Burr]

What is it?

[Martin Lewis]

It's. I. I'd have you anytime.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, the Dylan.

[Martin Lewis]

Yes, it's a Dylan Harrison composition.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, it is.

[Martin Lewis]

And you know why? It's track one, side one.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Martin Lewis]

It's George's. You. To John and Paul. You don't rate me as a writer, but I'm riding with Bob Dillon.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Martin Lewis]

And that's serious. I know that's.

[Bill Burr]

That I didn't know that. That's great.

[Martin Lewis]

And.

[Bill Burr]

And.

[Martin Lewis]

And he understandably felt pissed off. He was struggling to get his own in any other band.

[Bill Burr]

There's a video very soon after that. It's early 70s and George is at John house and they're having. They're around the breakfast table and they're like joking and like I am Beetle Ed.

[Martin Lewis]

That's because that's when they're doing the imaginative and they're doing the okay.

[Bill Burr]

So obviously, again, these feelings are mixed. There is hate and there is love. And they are living side by side as they are for many people.

[Martin Lewis]

But what they never stop doing is the little sniping at the Stones who they love on the Spartan Peppercald where it says Rolling Stones.

[Bill Burr]

Good God, they're like the Jews. It's like the Shiites and the Sunnis hate each other, but we'll all work together.

[Martin Lewis]

And everybody hates the Jews. We can get the Jews back with Tom Lewis. But no, the Stones remember that when Andrew Olden bumps into them on the street, they've just. John and Paul just come from a Industrial Awards lunch. And Andrew, who had been PR from six months earlier, has now signed the Stones. And he's taken the Beatles and Stones see each other and he says, the guys need a single, need a song. Because at that time they put out their first single, the Stones. It was. Come on, the Chuck Berry song. It had failed. And at that time the Beatles had. John and Paul had given songs to other artists that had hits. So Andrew, can you Give him a song. Give them a song. And so they go in to meet the Stones and they say, we'll knock up a song for you. They go to the pub, they give them I want to be your man.

[Bill Burr]

I hate that song.

[Martin Lewis]

I know, but here's the thing.

[Bill Burr]

So today, terrible when they did it, terrible when the Beatles did it. That's on the. That's on the worst of the Beatles.

[Martin Lewis]

But here's the point. Here's the point. Mick and the Stone are so grateful because a Beatles song was a ticket to success, they put it out. What John and Paul omitted to say was, it's one we're giving to Ringo. So they did it. And that's the little chip on Mick's shoulder that the Stones broke with that.

[Bill Burr]

No, I think it went past that. He does. Mick Jagger just pops up a lot in a Beetle Bug, you know, like he's at the all you need is love. Sing along. He's just. Obviously, it was a small group of, just like here in Hollywood now, the A listers. It wasn't like the Beatles didn't like being Beatles and going out to, like, the hub. They took full advantage of that. To me, the fact that Paul McCartney, the biggest, biggest pop star in the world in the mid-60s, was living in a garret in his girlfriend's family house speaks a lot to the man's desire for family. Because he really craved that, I think. And you see that he could have lived anywhere. And he lived in his girlfriend's attic because he kind of lived with the family. He was on the road a lot, so obviously. And I think he was certainly not like a. I don't think a relationship was even built around monogamy. And probably in later years that became an issue because there's at least three songs that seem like they're shots at her. One is maybe yesterday I'm looking through you, and there's another one that's for no one. There's some bleak romantic songs. While at the time he was with Jane Asher.

[Martin Lewis]

And Jane was a very fiercely independent, working professional actress. So there was a little bit of tension. But Paul was going up. She was upper middle class, Paul was lower middle class. There was a class thing going on there. But Paul enriched himself. That was why Paul was so upset about all that eulogizing of John as being the only avant garde one. When it was Paul who was living in central London while the others were living. Living in Sudurbia. And it was Paul who was going and listening to Stockhausen and Paul going to the avant garde stuff.

[Bill Burr]

I'm just saying on the family level, I think he wanted. He loved having a family, even. It meant living in the garret, because coming down to breakfast when they're all there and hearing about what the kids are doing and, you know, the paterfamilias at the head of the table, I think that was all very comforting him and it didn't stop him. From what I've read, I think this is the Barry Miles book that, you know, he was still living the pop star life.

[Martin Lewis]

And, you know, sure, they went on the road. Lennon said it was like Fellini satirical.

[Bill Burr]

He did, yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

Lennon said on the Road of. That was like Fellini Satiricon. They had girls being brought up to the suite. That was it.

[Bill Burr]

Right?

[Martin Lewis]

It was. It was very hard to turn them down.

[Bill Burr]

Of course,

[Martin Lewis]

I'm glad you mentioned the Barry Miles book, because when that. That was an authorized biography, because Barry was a close friend of John and he. Of Paul especially. And they put together the Indigo Gallery, which is where John and Yoko meet. But when the book comes out in it's called Many Years from now, And in it, McCartney reveals that he gave. He was the first person to give a joint to Mick Jagger. Now, when the book was published, when

[Bill Burr]

that was announced, they gave him the joint. He gave it to Mick Jagger here.

[Martin Lewis]

But wait, it gets better.

[Bill Burr]

He gave it to Bowie.

[Martin Lewis]

The Stones.

[Bill Burr]

He was blowing him.

[Martin Lewis]

The Stones. The Stones are on tour from Australia. The. Just before a gig, Mick gets a press release out denying that Paul ever gave something as uncool as Paul McCartney gave him his first joint. He's on the road. It's 50 years earlier. And Mick was so pissed off that he issued a press release to deny that he got a joint from.

[Bill Burr]

Why would that be uncool? I can't think of a cooler thing to happen to me than Paul McCartney giving me my first because he was from the north.

[Martin Lewis]

This rivalry is just rivalry between those. Listen, when Paul and John did a TV special called the Songs of Len and McCartney, where they had a bunch of different artists performing their songs, and John and Paul were roped in to be the MCs, and there's great people there and great musicians and George Martin and Cilla Black and Marianne Faith Eiffel, who's of course Mick Jagger's girlfriend. And right at the beginning, they're. They're playing some different audio of different tracks and that written. Written by John Paul, because by 1965 they were being covered by everybody. Ella Fitzgerald, everybody's covering the Beatles and they play the Stones. I want to be your man. And Paul turns to John and says, I don't remember. Did we write that? And John. John mindful that Marianne Faithful said, oh, yeah, we wrote that one when we were about that high. You know, it's just a spy dig. And what's the line in. And your bird can sing. Your virgin thing.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Tell me.

[Martin Lewis]

Your bird can sing. And you've got everything. And your bird can sing. Marianne Faithful. A bird. He's. John is having a go at Mick. Oh, tell me that you see no7Wonders. And your bird can sing, but you don't burn.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Martin Lewis]

You don't get me. Because John is pissed.

[Bill Burr]

That sounds great. I love learning something after all these years that I didn't know. And your bird can sing, right? It's like when you get the crossword puzzle answer, it's like, oh, that's what they were meaning. Oh, I see. And she's a bird, right? And she's a bird.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, the Eagles did it with Steely Dan. They stab them with their steely knives. And they. That was a deliberate. When you're on that level, you both have a rivalry, but only sort of know that there's a very limited number of people who know what you went through, what you're going through. Not that it's worst. We're not Marines here, we're not in war. But we all go through things. And it would be nice to know that you can just talk to somebody who you feel like, oh, you kind of must know. It's like doing the actual. You know what it's like to do this job. I mean, I have it with talk show hosts. I just do. And there is. It's like.

[Martin Lewis]

It's a small group. It's a very small group.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, cops. You know, a cop sees another cop at a diner at three in the morning, they don't have to say anything. They both know how they're feeling and what they go through.

[Martin Lewis]

Right.

[Bill Burr]

And, you know, same with the hookers who are in the booth eating reputedly. Well, cops and hookers are sometimes in the same time at 3am sometimes after they had sex with each other.

[Martin Lewis]

But the. When I did the Hard Days night dvd, I was interviewing all these people, and I wasn't allowed to interview Paul or George or Ringo, because at that time, Apple had a very strict policy. We don't own the film. We don't deal with anything we don't own. Because the film was made before the Beatles had the power to own it. So I was interviewing everybody else and I found that some of those people, for them it was the biggest thing. Hard days. I was the biggest thing in their life. Whereas for the Beatles it was just one. You know, it was a few weeks in, in a busy year. And one of the guys told me a fascinating thing. I was talking about the scene in the disco and the Beatles are all dancing in a club. And I said, what was that Swinging London thing? Like I was too young to be in those. He said swinging London was 400 people. That's all it ever was. The Time magazine blew it up into this huge thing. It was just the same 400 people. A few actors, a few musicians, a few artists.

[Bill Burr]

It's probably always that.

[Martin Lewis]

It's all it was, it was just a little clue.

[Bill Burr]

Always that.

[Martin Lewis]

And from the outside it seemed like this monstrously huge thing. But it was, but you know, that was the inner side of it. It certainly was.

[Bill Burr]

Well, is there anything that we should wrap up here that would be like great viral new information, you know, like, I don't know, they discovered some age defying medicine and the Beatles will be reanimated for a concert on. Where were they going to do Let It Be on a Greek island? First ever.

[Martin Lewis]

They was talking. They were going to do it on an ocean voyage. They were going to do it on an ocean.

[Bill Burr]

I love that part in the Anthology where George goes. You know, there's some about that period, 68, 69, 70, when they had the boutique, the store and film ideas and started the company Apple and had all sorts of charlatans and magic Alex, all that kind of shit. And he said, you know, but at the end of the day we found out we could only really write songs and sing songs and you know, it's okay, like that's enough. And sometimes people in showbiz get greedy. I feel like if you do one thing really great now there are actors and people who can sing amazing and you know, direct. There are hyphenates for sure, but in general, like, yeah, I never understood the film part, like why they didn't. They were the first to do what we would call music videos. But they did them like in 1967. The ones I know, we've all seen them. Strawberry Fields, right, I Am the Walrus. These are music videos exactly as we then saw in 1980 when. Or 82.

[Martin Lewis]

82, when.

[Bill Burr]

Okay, so why the 15 year lapse? Why did no one in the 70s pick up on Beatles, make these music videos? Why that whole decade went by without Them.

[Martin Lewis]

They kept doing performance clips. Nobody understood what the Beatles were doing,

[Bill Burr]

but they showed them. They made them. They did the exact.

[Martin Lewis]

And they did them originally just so they didn't have to go to the trouble of having to go up here on a TV.

[Bill Burr]

But it's exactly what then was on in 1982. Quick cutting. They show the band singing the song. Sometimes in different setups where they look different doing it. But they're doing it. They're also doing other things. They're falling down on skis. They're tumbling down a mountain. When they're climbing a tree, things go back. Yeah, it's a music video. And for some reason. And they just fucking left it lying on the table for 15 years. I find it baffling.

[Martin Lewis]

It is baffling. When I interviewed Richard Lester, who did Half Day's Nine Hell, and was very inventive and had worked also with Peter Sellers. And he said MTV had sent him a diploma saying that he was the father of music video. And he said he wrote back to them saying, I demand a paternity test. He was pissed off. Listen, there are. There's. We've only scratched the surface, but there's.

[Bill Burr]

It's amazing how long you could do this because. But I'm sure that there are like, you know, radio stations that do it every Sunday, aren't there?

[Martin Lewis]

Oh, they're not just that. There's on. They're all.

[Bill Burr]

But they're not as good as this one was.

[Martin Lewis]

No, of course not.

[Bill Burr]

They're all just poor man's version of this Beatles discussion. We got down to the. You're right, we have all these scratches.

[Martin Lewis]

Have now, for example, of obscure Beatle songs. The. The. The Holy Grail, the one that nobody hears. Have you ever heard colliding circles? No. Pink litmus paper shirt?

[Bill Burr]

No.

[Martin Lewis]

Left is right and right is wrong.

[Bill Burr]

No.

[Martin Lewis]

Deck chair?

[Bill Burr]

No. Who are these? What are these? But cuz, like I must say, when they go into the vault, sometimes they still come out with the gold. I love the two songs on the Anthology album that were stuff Yoko had lying around, you know, on the kitchen floor. I love Free as a Bird. I know it wouldn't. Could have been better if John was alive when they made it. They still made a great record. I love that. And I really love Real Love. Real Love is. Is one of their best. I don't know why that didn't.

[Martin Lewis]

He's still. He's still. He still had the muse. He still had.

[Bill Burr]

So I don't mind when they. When they do that. But like These one. But I've also heard some real and I don't know these. If, if. What I'm saying is if we've been digging in this barrel for 50 years, I can't imagine anything down there is like wouldn't have come up by now. I don't think it's going to be better than real love.

[Martin Lewis]

Those four are being the most sought after.

[Bill Burr]

What are they? Lennon tape?

[Martin Lewis]

No, sadly they were song titles that I threw into an article in 1972 when I needed to pad out the article New Beatles songs I was.

[Bill Burr]

You made it up.

[Martin Lewis]

I, I padded an article. I was commissioned to write an article

[Bill Burr]

for an English padding. That's. That's making it up.

[Martin Lewis]

Yeah, but I was short of titles. I needed to put in unreleased Beatles songs and there weren't that many so I.

[Bill Burr]

Because I've got all my business, Gant.

[Martin Lewis]

Only when I fessed up to it later, I did it in 1960.

[Bill Burr]

What was your punishment?

[Martin Lewis]

George Martin said if he'd had a penny that every time somebody had asked him about these 4 non existent songs he'd have been really wealthy. It was. There was no penalty. It was, it was only a throwaway. I was just the article. I was short of songs so I threw it. I knew that Apple routinely denied the existence of songs that we Beatle bands knew exactly existed. Like why is the new Mary Jane? We knew that existed. And I didn't think that Apple would say none of those songs exist by the way, these four definitely don't exist. So I got away with it. Just padded the article. It never occurred to me but 20, 30 years later, people, serious people's historians had written, seen that everything else in the article was legit and just assumed that these were real. So they, they took on a myth. And everyone was saying, saying oh, John plays saxophone on this or George plays miraculous. It just, it was nonsense. It was. It made me understand how mythology is created. And when I fessed up, I did a one man show and I made a thing about, you know, these four songs I wrote for the Beatles and people said oh that's nonsense. I like the way you did it, but I've heard those songs. So people were saying that songs were doubting. That's.

[Bill Burr]

That's awesome. That's such a, that's such a good great story indicating something timeless and sad about human nature. It's so true. People. There's an old story. I remember John Chancellor told it on the Tonight show when they were talking about like an Israeli peace deal in the 70s or something. It wasn't going well, he said. The story is there's an old man in Damascus and he's trying to get to sleep in the afternoon, but the kids are in the courtyard playing and making a lot of. So he. I get these kids to shut us. He goes up to the window and he yells out, hey, they're giving away oranges in the marketplace. And the kids run off. Oh, they're giving away. Goes Back to sleep. Five minutes, 30. Gets up. He goes, what am I doing sleeping? They're giving away oranges in the marketplace. All right, I gotta go to the bathroom.

[Martin Lewis]

Bill, I'm gonna leave you with George's famous exit line.

[Bill Burr]

What is it?

[Martin Lewis]

See around the. The clubs?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Martin Lewis]

That was. That was their sardonic humor. See you around the clubs. That's all he could say to them when he walked out. It was forgiven.

[Bill Burr]

There you go.

[Martin Lewis]

Is that line.

[Bill Burr]

It's a great line.

[Martin Lewis]

It is. Okay.

[Bill Burr]

All right, well, we'll have to scratch more of the surface anytime. Love Random. I'm anal retentive, so I, like, have.

[Martin Lewis]

No, not kidding. But Club Random

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