Michael Franzese | Club Random

Summary

Podcast Summary: Club Random with Bill Maher – Episode Featuring Michael Franzese

Release Date: February 16, 2025
Guest: Michael Franzese
Host: Bill Maher
Location: Club Random

---

Introduction

In this captivating episode of Club Random, Bill Maher engages in a deep and often heated discussion with Michael Franzese, a former capo of the Colombo crime family and an accomplished author. Set in the enigmatic Club Random, their hour-long conversation traverses a wide array of topics, blending humor, personal anecdotes, and sharp political commentary.

---

Government and the Mafia: Comparative Analysis

Franzese introduces his perspective by comparing the operations of the U.S. government to that of the Mafia, arguing that both institutions revolve around power and control. He states:

“To me, it's just all about power and control, Bill.”
(03:16)

Maher challenges this analogy, seeking concrete examples to substantiate Franzese's claims. The conversation delves into the mechanisms of governance, corruption, and the intertwining of politics with organized crime.

Key Highlights:

• Tax Cuts and Enrichment: Discussion on how politicians, regardless of their initial financial status, often leave office significantly wealthier. Franzese attributes this to systemic graft within the government.

  “Politicians... they enrich themselves.”
  (05:29)

• Donald Trump’s Presidency: The duo debates Trump's financial dealings and actions while in office, with Maher expressing skepticism about Franzese's assertions regarding Trump's integrity.

  “He put out a meme coin... he likes getting richer.”

  (06:39)

Notable Quote:

“The key to this country is we have to be able to like have that and then go. Let's talk about other things, like how many guys you killed.”
(03:08) – Franzese

---

Political Polarization: Trump vs. Biden

The conversation shifts focus to the contrasting presidencies of Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Franzese criticizes Biden's administration, particularly his handling of the border crisis and internal government corruption, labeling Biden as treasonous.

“Joe Biden is treasonous. He sold out his vice presidency.”
(24:55)

Maher defends Biden, arguing that not all government actions equate to treason and emphasizing the complexity of governing.

Key Highlights:

• Border Security: Maher critiques Biden's border policies, agreeing that they have been mishandled, which has led to increased illegal activities and tensions.

  “He did a terrible job with the border.”
  (58:41)

• Media Bias: Both hosts express frustration with media portrayals, discussing how selective editing can misrepresent their viewpoints.

  “The media hates me. They won't even cover that... They just want to show me kissing Trump's ass.”
  (83:18) – Maher

Notable Quote:

“He didn't concede the election... It's the reason why his followers are upset.”
(15:04) – Maher

---

Personal Histories and Reflections on Organized Crime

Franzese shares his experiences from his time in the Mafia, offering insights into the inner workings of organized crime and its impact on families. He contrasts the “racketeers” who brought in money with the “gangsters” who handled the violent aspects.

“The racketeers were the guys that brought the money in... The gangsters did a lot of the heavy work.”
(44:22)

Maher interjects with references to Mafia-related movies, drawing parallels between cinematic portrayals and Franzese’s real-life experiences.

Key Highlights:

• Mafia Governance: Discussion on how the Mafia operated on principles of respect and taking care of the "little people," countering popular beliefs about the Mafia being solely driven by fear and violence.

  “My father taught me to always be good to the little people.”
  (45:08) – Franzese

• Impact of RICO Laws: Franzese explains how the introduction of the RICO statute devastated organized crime by enabling lengthy convictions and witness protection, effectively transferring fear from the Mafia to the government.

  “That's what destroyed that life.”
  (49:52) – Franzese

Notable Quote:

“Any lifestyle that does that to a family is no good. It's bad.”
(69:00) – Franzese

---

Social Issues and Civilization

The dialogue extends to broader social issues, including the fragility of civilization, inherent human aggression, and the role of police. Both hosts reflect on societal behaviors, mental health, and the challenges of maintaining order.

Key Highlights:

• Inherent Human Nature: Discussion on the darker aspects of human behavior and the delicate balance of maintaining civilized society.

  “We're inherently bad. People are inherently bad.”
  (51:04) – Maher

• Police Morale and Integrity: Maher appreciates the role of the police and stresses the importance of supporting law enforcement, while also acknowledging past mistakes and the need for reform.

  “Police morale will go up. And police morale needed to go up...”
  (55:03) – Maher

Notable Quote:

“They want to recruit from the human race. Humans are not good people. That's my essential.”
(50:43) – Maher

---

Concluding Thoughts and Mutual Respect

Despite their heated disagreements, both Maher and Franzese express a level of mutual respect. Franzese acknowledges Maher's long-standing career and media presence, while Maher appreciates Franzese's candor and dedication to his beliefs.

Key Highlights:

• Apologies and Acknowledgments: Franzese apologizes for any discomfort caused during the conversation, and Maher acknowledges the depth of their discussion.

  “I have a lot of respect for you...”
  (41:09) – Franzese

• Future Collaborations: They joke about future interactions, including tours of the Mob Museum in Las Vegas, highlighting the blend of serious topics with light-hearted banter.

Notable Quote:

“You really have to be good to the little people... That's why you go to the back of the Copacabana.”
(45:08) – Franzese

---

Conclusion

This episode of Club Random offers a riveting exploration of power, corruption, and personal redemption. Through their dynamic exchange, Bill Maher and Michael Franzese provide listeners with a multifaceted view of American politics, organized crime, and societal challenges. Their candid conversation not only sheds light on the parallels between government and the Mafia but also emphasizes the enduring impact of personal choices and integrity.

---

Notable Quotes:

1. Michael Franzese:
   “The key to this country is we have to be able to like have that and then go. Let's talk about other things, like how many guys you killed.”
   (03:08)

2. Bill Maher:
   “You can't just pre hate... What I hate, I will say.”
   (84:58)

3. Michael Franzese:
   “Any lifestyle that does that to a family is no good. It's bad.”
   (69:00)

4. Bill Maher:
   “We're inherently bad. People are inherently bad.”
   (51:04)

5. Michael Franzese:
   “Joe Biden is treasonous. He sold out his vice presidency.”
   (24:55)

---

This in-depth conversation between Bill Maher and Michael Franzese offers valuable insights into the complexities of power dynamics, governance, and personal transformation. Whether you're a longtime listener or new to Club Random, this episode provides a thought-provoking exploration of themes that resonate with a broad audience.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3.

[A]

Month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full available taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mint mobile.com Factor has chef made gourmet meals that make eating well easy? They're dietitian approved and ready to eat in two minutes. So you can fuel right and feel great no matter what life throws at you. Factor arrives fresh and fully prepared. Perfect for any active, busy lifestyle. Eat smart with Factor. Get started at factor meals.com/random50off and use code random50OFF to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. The key to this country is we have to be able to like have that and then go. Let's talk about other things, like how many guys you killed. A lot of people say Vegas was better when the mob ran.

[B]

100%. 100%.

[A]

You know that. Were you there?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Club Random. Godfather.

[B]

Finally.

[A]

I swear to God I didn't know it was a hit.

[B]

This is years in the making.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because I've always wanted to meet you.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

I'll tell you what happened.

[A]

I always wanted to avoid you.

[B]

Good idea. No, I'm only kidding. About 25 years ago you were in a movie theater. We were in a movie theater together in Westwood.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I was going to come up to you then. And something happened. I don't know that I didn't. And then you were gone. I just wanted to say hello.

[A]

Oh, well, yeah. I never hang around the movie theater when the movie's over. I'm always gone. I just.

[B]

You were gone quick.

[A]

Well, what were you going to say 25 years ago?

[B]

Hello. How are you? Oh, okay.

[A]

Oh, good. I'm glad.

[B]

Yeah, it was going to be Nice and cordial.

[A]

Thank you for making the time and congratulations on being such a success in this field. Appreciate that. It's interesting podcasting, isn't it, that, like, the biggest subject, maybe the two biggest are what we're into comedy and crime.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

It is crazy. Some people would say they're often the same. I'm not one of those people, but. Yeah. And who knows more about crime than you?

[B]

I guess that depending upon what side of the fence you are, you could say that's either good or a bad thing. I've certainly had a lot of experience with it.

[A]

I think it's a bad thing. I'm with the law generally. Although, of course, as we all know, very often the people on the side of the law are the biggest criminals.

[B]

I wrote a book, Mafia Democracy. I have a copy for you right here.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

And you're going to read this book now, I want to tell you something.

[A]

Mafia Democracy.

[B]

Now, I wrote this a year and a half ago. It wasn't current, but I mean, not today. But, Bill, when you read that book, you're gonna see that this is exactly how our government is operating.

[A]

Just like the mob in some ways. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, come on. That's a bit of an exaggeration. I can tell you many ways the government doesn't act just like the mob. But you're not without a point as far as. I mean, what is the mob basically based on? It's based on the old idea of the Roman Empire's protection racket. The Roman Empire was a protection racket. I mean, that's. They would go. They would, you know. Would you like to live? Well, it's going to cost you. Would you like to keep your grocery store from burning down? It's going to cost you. That's the protection racket. There is some of that in government. I mean, what would you. You tell me, you wrote the book. What are some examples of that?

[B]

To me, it's just all about power and control, Bill.

[A]

Well, that's vague. You're gonna have to do better.

[B]

Well, power and control, meaning that these people get into office, they get intoxicated with the power, they never want to leave, as evidenced by most of our congresspeople. And they enrich themselves.

[A]

Yeah, but give me a specific example of how the government acts like the Mafia.

[B]

Well, there again, I mean, it's all about. What are we all about? We want them to make money, and we want them to stay in control of people. And the government operates the same way, in my opinion. I mean, listen, I Don't throw one blanket over everybody in government. There are honest people there. I'm not saying that, but I think the mechanism has now become really all about power and control. You know, why do I truly.

[A]

There must be, like, examples. If you wrote a whole book, like, you know what? At the Department of Labor, they did this.

[B]

No, I'm not. I'm not going to. I won't be specific like that.

[A]

But listen, and I can only go with you so far, okay? You got to be specific.

[B]

Let me ask you this.

[A]

You're making an accusation like that.

[B]

All right, let me ask you this. Politicians, many of them come into the money, come into power. They're middle class, people don't have a lot of money, and they go out millionaires, multimillionaires, many of them. How do you explain that?

[A]

Oh, no, there is graft. I mean that. But that characterizes. Well, finally we have a guy in office who that does characterize.

[B]

Who's that?

[A]

Donald Trump. You may have heard of him. He won the election again, but he.

[B]

Had money before he came into office. He didn't come into government to make money.

[A]

Yeah. Are you fucking kidding me?

[B]

No, he didn't.

[A]

First of all, in his first term, we thought, oh, this is as bad as it can get with the graft, because he did things that no president ever done, like kept all his assets. People were staying. Foreign dignitaries and leaders were staying at his hotels. That's outrageous. And then he upped that. He put out a meme coin, okay, and made $58 billion the day before he took office.

[B]

All right, but he was a billionaire when he went into office.

[A]

Yeah, well, we didn't even know that because he's such a liar that we have no idea what he was. He certainly acted rich and he certainly was rich by any people's sentence. He had his own plane, but we don't know. I mean, he wouldn't release his taxes. He was rich and he likes getting richer. And he has no qualms about enriching himself in this office. I'm just saying this is new, but it's not new. In many other countries in the world, they say Putin is probably worth 40 billion. We only get that from literally robbing the treasury when the treasury and your personal bank account are basically the same thing. And potentates have done this all over the world. Asia, Africa, the Americas. We certainly have not been that country. In general, there has been graph never on that scale. He is joining because those are the kind of people he likes or autocrats like that. But I don't think, for example, Xi in China does that. He doesn't need to. Why would he need to? He's the leader of China. He has his own plane. He has his own palace. You can't get richer than being the president. You cannot, even if the salary was zero, because everything is provided for you. And if you want to go somewhere, you get there faster than any other person in the world.

[B]

All right, well, let me ask you the difference. He came in as a wealthy guy. We're not counting as money, but we knew he was wealthy. What about Obama? He didn't come in wealthy and he.

[A]

Didn'T leave with that kind of wealth.

[B]

He's worth, from what I'm hearing now, he's worth a hundred million dollars.

[A]

I doubt if he's worth a hundred million dollars. That's what I heard, but that's what I heard. That's what Trump says.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I heard.

[A]

People are saying, well, it must be true.

[B]

Come on, look at his life. Come on, look at his lifestyle.

[A]

Oh, look, he.

[B]

I'm saying he's not entitled to it afterward. But I'm saying he became a very wealthy guy.

[A]

Okay, well, you tend to get famous when you're the first black president of the United States. It's kind of a big accomplishment. So, you know, did he. Does he get a speaking fee? Probably gets half a million or even a million dollars. Speaking fee?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so. But he didn't go in it for the money. He wasn't.

[B]

We don't know that, though. I mean.

[A]

Oh, we don't know that.

[B]

Really. I mean, I was saying that wasn't the only reason he wanted to be wealthy. He wanted to be president. We get that. But I'm sure he thought about, you know, what it was going to do for him financially, too. Why not?

[A]

Okay. I just don't think that was Barack Obama's motivation. I think it's something that comes along with getting to that. If you were at that level of success in any field. Yeah. You would have some financial remuneration. I mean, it's peanuts compared to what some of the. Again, what Trump is doing, that the kind of money he is making from just basically selling the job. I mean, he was, for example, very much against TikTok. Let's get rid of TikTok. Until the TikTok guy came in and said he would gave a big contribution to his campaign. Then he was all for TikTok. He's very transactionable. He doesn't even make a secret of it. He doesn't understand how government works. He still runs it like it's a business. In some ways that might be advantageous in the long run. I don't think it is.

[B]

What do you think of his last. The first two weeks in office, what do you think?

[A]

There are some things. Well, I said before he took office I would not pre hate anything. Now that he's in there. There's some things I hate and there's some things I don't hate. Okay. You know, it's a breath of fresh air as far as, like we're going to look at things in a way we've never looked at it before. Like maybe Gaza doesn't have to be this utter hellhole where the people are constantly attacking Israel and they are themselves constantly being attacked by this terrorist organization that runs them. Like a mafia. Yeah, maybe. You know, it's a beautiful area on the beach. Maybe it could be more like Dubai. Okay. It's great to think about that. But then we're going to just take it over. Like what? We're an imperial power? It's 1898 again. We're just going to take over Gaza and Greenland and the Panama Canal. It's, you know.

[B]

Yeah, but Bill, don't you think he just puts things out there to get.

[A]

He's the president. You can't just put things out there. Look, he's not a pod.

[B]

Look what he did with the tariffs. Everybody jumped up and down. All the Democrats were upset. And what did he do? He named the tariffs just to bring these people to the table.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

He's a business guy. He negotiated.

[A]

It's a week into the tariff thing, Michael. It's a week. We'll see.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Yeah, it also could like fucking put us into a depression because everybody. We've had tariff wars before 1930. Okay, right after the stock market crash. It was the worst thing for the depression was the tariff war. So a trade war, we'll see what happens.

[B]

But. Okay, but so far, no damage. He's. He, he accomplished what he wanted in the short run. He brought them to the table to get security at the borders.

[A]

Okay? There are people who have been damaged already because he, well, he froze all spending, people didn't get their Medicaid checks, and then he unfroze it. Okay, well, you just can't do it. First of all, it's illegal. You have to have. Congress has to pass the laws. He. He seems that to forget about that part of governing this country. But yes, people, you know, we'll see. I mean, it's Too early to make giant judgments. Like I say, I don't mind re looking at things. This country is bloated. I want to see what Musk is going to do with all that. The idea of just going with a sledgehammer through everything, not thinking things through, talking about us taking over places like an imperial power again, No, I don't like that. And he just doesn't understand how this country works or doesn't care to learn. Nor can you tell him anything.

[B]

I know, but you know how this country works, Especially in the past couple of years. It hasn't been working well.

[A]

All right, but it hasn't been working well. And it also could get worse.

[B]

I think it would have gotten a lot worse had Trump not been elected as president.

[A]

I'm getting that impression.

[B]

A lot worse.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Well, you know, what did you think of Kamala? I mean, I've heard you, obviously. What do you think of her? Do you think that she should have even been a nominee?

[A]

You know, my line on her was, do I love everything? No, not even close.

[B]

The woman wasn't even competent to be.

[A]

Okay, but at least she understands how the United States government works, that it's not a monarchy. At least she concedes elections. Conceding elections is the most important thing in this country, in a democracy. And your guy doesn't do it.

[B]

Let me tell you what my thoughts are, and I know where you're going with this. These Democrats for the past four years have done nothing but lie to us in every sense of the word. Lied. They've totally disregarded our trust for four years. Come on. Lied to us. Biden wasn't even competent to be in that office. He didn't run the presidency. He didn't run the country. We had a shadow government basically running the country. And for me, I look at it this way. You lie to me once, okay, things happen. Second time, I don't know. Third time, forget it. These people have been lying constantly. They don't know the truth from a lie.

[A]

You find no lies in Donald Trump's history.

[B]

Let's put it this way. Forget about his history.

[A]

Come on, man.

[B]

No, no, no. Forget about his history. I don't care what he did 20 years ago. I come from New York.

[A]

You care what he did four years ago when he was president?

[B]

Yeah. What did he do? How did he hurt the country four years ago when he was president? How did he hurt the country? Aside from the fact that. Let's not go into the fraud on the election. If there was or if there wasn't. Whatever. Okay, but how did he.

[A]

Listen to what you just said? Tell me how he hurt the country. But let's not go into the main.

[B]

Way he did it. Not yet. Forget that for a moment. Because I can't forget that. Okay, but everything I can't forget.

[A]

What did he do for the country? And nor should I.

[B]

What did he do for the country?

[A]

Great question. What the fuck did he do?

[B]

How was the country four years prior to Biden's administration, in your opinion?

[A]

Well, okay. I mean, he would say that he had the greatest economy of all time. Basically, he had the economy he inherited, which was Obama's economy. Well, that's true.

[B]

Okay, okay. He didn't destroy it, right?

[A]

He did not destroy it. No, he did not destroy it. I mean, there are people. Look, he cut taxes for the rich.

[B]

He cut it through the middle class also.

[A]

Yeah, I understand that. But if you look at the numbers, if you look at the charts, most of it goes to the rich. Look, I'm not a communist and I've been very hard on the left.

[B]

You have been. And I love it.

[A]

Yeah. When they are wrong. What Biden did mostly I think wrong was that he was feeble, he was old. He had not the strength or the appetite in any way to stand up to the far left fringe of his country. So he let them do anything. I'm not against some of these things that Trump is undoing now. DEI did go way too far.

[B]

Get rid of it.

[A]

So, you know, there is a. And look, people voted for him. Elections have consequences. Somebody gets. When they get in office, they have. It is their right to then go ahead and do what they said they were gonna do.

[B]

And he's doing that everything.

[A]

Oh, no, he's definitely doing what he.

[B]

Said he was everything that he campaigned on.

[A]

I mean, I didn't hear a lot about Greenland before he won, but. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know where that came from either, but that. That's Trump.

[A]

Well, that's okay.

[B]

You know, I mean, you know, it's no longer the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America. I mean, we didn't hear any of that. I don't think that mattered to the American people, but the fact that the important things, the border, you know, the economy. Let's see what he does. I mean, he's in office two weeks.

[A]

I always found it amusing, the connection between the Mafia and their view of America, which is very patriotic. I mean, the very first scene in the Godfather. Yes, I'm sure you know it well.

[B]

Inside out.

[A]

Inside out. And what is his first line is, I think I love America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The undertaker who's coming to Don Corleone for justice. I love America. I came here, and then he goes through the whole story about my daughter. She went out with a boyfriend who brought another boyfriend, and they treated her like an animal. He sat in that courtroom and made.

[B]

How many times have you seen it?

[A]

Oh, I could do. You would be.

[B]

It's on every week now. You can't miss it.

[A]

Oh. I mean, it's that kind of movie where you're like. If you see two seconds of it, you go, no, no, no. I've seen this too many times. And then you're home, and then you.

[B]

Watch the whole thing.

[A]

It's amazing. But they love. But he loves America, and Don Corleone understands. He's a little insulted because the man is asking him to commit murder because they raped his daughter on the day.

[B]

Of his daughter's wedding.

[A]

When you can't refuse any favor that they're asking you. And he said, that is not justice. I understand. You came to this country, you found paradise. There were courts of law and police to protect you. So you didn't need a friend like me.

[B]

That's good, Bill.

[A]

That's it. You didn't need a friend like me. There we are again with the protection racket. But that's it. He's competing with America. America has done for this guy what he used to do when they were first immigrants in the country, America, there are courts of law and police to protect you. You didn't need me anymore. That's so interesting to me.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

But also that they really do love America. I mean, Michael Corleone, when he has to go testify, you know, he's a war hero. He was. They. They make.

[B]

Well, let me tell you this. I was indicted seven times. I had two federal racketeering cases and a state racketeering case. And I love America. And at one time, I hated the FBI and I hated the government. I grew up hating them because I love my dad. And. And they were, you know, constantly harassing him, in my view. Now I understand a little bit more.

[A]

But didn't he kill people?

[B]

Well, that's what they say, but he was.

[A]

Wasn't he head of the Colombo crime family?

[B]

He was the Honda boss.

[A]

You were the head of the family?

[B]

No, I was. I was a capo regime. A captain.

[A]

Right, A captain.

[B]

I mean, it was. It was an official position.

[A]

And do you ever beat yourself up for not getting the top job?

[B]

Didn't want it, Bill.

[A]

You didn't want it. You didn't want to be there too. Too high profile.

[B]

I had too much of a bullseye on my back. And, you know, you gotta understand, I had. I had investigations from the time I was. I had a 14 agency task force on me for years and kept getting these indictments. I went to trial five times. I beat every case.

[A]

But aren't these investigations of you for good reason, because you were breaking the law?

[B]

Here's the thing. Here's what they're talking about. And this is what Bondi recently said. You know, we're no longer going to use the Department of Justice to target an individual and find out what crime he's committing. That's what they said. That's what's been going on in Lawfare for the past couple of years. But I can almost understand it, you know, Mafia organized crime, because we were allegedly criminals at that time. So, hey, let me see what this guy is doing. We know he's doing something. We don't know quite what, but we'll figure it out. We'll investigate him. Because it's backwards in our life. You didn't have a crime and then they go investigated. They were investigating you to see what crime you might commit.

[A]

But the Mafia was committing crimes. You deny that?

[B]

No, I'm not saying that.

[A]

Extortion, long sharpness.

[B]

I'm saying you could almost say that's okay. All right, we know these guys are criminals. We don't know exactly what they're doing. We hear it. We have to find out. This is a criminal organization. So we'll target individuals and go after them. That's.

[A]

Well, I was.

[B]

It's kind of. Okay.

[A]

It was a fishing expedition where there were a lot of fish. Correct.

[B]

That's a good way to put it. Okay, okay. But do you do that. Do you do that to legitimate people that are not involved with organized crime?

[A]

But you were involved.

[B]

No, no, no. But I'm saying I'm okaying that.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

Yeah. But do you do that to legitimate people that are not involved in organized crime because you don't like them, because they disagree with you? They're not on your. They don't have the same agenda?

[A]

No, that is wrong. And there is some of that that does go on. Absolutely.

[B]

Would you agree that a lot of it went on with Trump?

[A]

With Trump? Oh, what, you're obsessed with Trump?

[B]

I'm not obsessed with him, but I just want to have this discussion.

[A]

Oh, you're talking about Lawfare. Well, I mean, it's a tough question. That he put the country in. Because as president, you don't want to go where so many other countries have gone, where the guy loses an election and now they prosecute him.

[B]

Because they prosecute him while he was president. Also with two impeachments.

[A]

Yes, because he does commit crimes. See, this is the little fly in your ointment, like not conceding the election, trying to get fake electors to show up when he knew. And every court told him, you can't do that. That went to court over 60 times, laughed out of every court, pressuring the Justice Department, calling up the guy in Georgia who was a Republican, the vote counter there, and saying to him, I need you to find 11,000 votes. It can't be more blatant than that. That this is. These are cr. Would also say the Russia thing, even when he just said out loud, Russia. If you're listening, I wish you could help me with my campaign. We never did that before, Michael. You see, we ran our own campaigns. We didn't bring in ringers from the outside. It's part of the original documents that the founding fathers wrote. We don't want any help from outside because we're going to handle this ourselves. Maybe the Republicans and the Democrats fight each other to the tooth and nail, but don't bring in somebody from the outside. He broke that. He broke so many laws, not to mention norms. So the idea that, well, it's just lawfare going after him. It's not lawfare if the guy actually did commit crimes. And again, you have to weigh that against what's the better tact? Because you don't want to become that country where as soon as somebody leaves office, they prosecute them. What the president gets to do should have broad, broad protection. That's true. Because when you're President, you do have to make difficult decision decisions, like we may have to bomb you. And so you can't. You know what? Okay. You can't just be called a war criminal for everybody you bomb. Sorry, that's just the way of the world. But he took it to a different level. So. Yes, I don't think it's. I don't think it was all just lawfare.

[B]

These crimes that they alleged, these are all nonsense.

[A]

They're not all nonsense. I just listed why they weren't.

[B]

No, let me. No, you don't care.

[A]

You just like him.

[B]

Like who you like.

[A]

Listen to the logic about it or the facts.

[B]

You just like him. It's okay.

[A]

You're entitled.

[B]

Let me give you logic me, man. Let me give you Logic and facts. Okay, Yeah. I told you I had three racketeering indictments. Three. Okay. I know this statute inside out and upside down.

[A]

We're back to you now.

[B]

No, no, no, no. I'm coming to a point. I will tell you this. The information and the evidence that was uncovered by the GOP investigation on Joe Biden and Hunter Biden and his family, there was more evidence than there was in any one of my racketeering indictments. Joe Biden is treasonous.

[A]

No, I agree. I'm agreeing with you.

[B]

Okay, he's treasonous.

[A]

He's not treasonous.

[B]

Yes, he is. He sold out his vice presidency. That's treason. For money.

[A]

You just don't like him, so that's treason. But you're guy Bill.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Let me tell you. You know why I don't like him?

[A]

Sake.

[B]

I don't like him because he. He's. He's a liar. Let me finish my point.

[A]

I didn't say anything.

[B]

He's a liar. He was never competent to be president. He lied every single. He lied about everything. The guy.

[A]

I'm not a huge fan.

[B]

He lied about the laptop. He lied about everything. He had 51. Him and his. His. His cohorts there got 51 intelligence agencies agents to lie about the laptop after they knew that the FBI had authenticated it. Absolute liar. Okay, okay. As far as that, let me tell you this.

[A]

Not a huge fan.

[B]

He had 18. 18 shell companies that did nothing. There was no brick and mortar behind him. There was no employees. All they did was collect money. How do I know about that? I had 21 shell companies when I was collecting defrauding the government of tax on every gallon of gas. I know the whole system. He sold out his vice presidency. He sold it out. He's treasonous and he lies. The guy lies. He don't even know how to tell the truth. And he destroyed the country.

[A]

Treasonous. If we were at war and he was selling secrets to them, we weren't.

[B]

How do we know what he did for the money, Bill? How do we know he did.

[A]

I didn't know what he did for the money. He got his ne'er do well, crackhead son. A job in an energy company when he knew nothing about energy.

[B]

Is that okay?

[A]

It's not okay, but you have no perspective on what is the bigger crime. You just like the guy. You like everything he does. You see through rose colored glass.

[B]

No, you won't.

[A]

And this other guy.

[B]

No, you won't.

[A]

It's okay. Most of the country is like I would tell you, just don't ask me to respect it as critical thinking.

[B]

I like Donald Trump for the policies that he put into this country. And I think during his time as a president. I didn't know him before that. I met him one time 30 years ago with Roy Cohen for five. He probably wouldn't have even remembered me. We had a little meeting. I had a meet with Roy Cohen. He happened to be there. That was it. I don't know him. I have nothing to do with him. Let me tell you something. I don't, I'm not know of anybody. I just like the job he did as president. I don't care about anything else. And listen, I have a podcast and I tell my people straight out, if I see Donald Trump doing something wrong, I'm going to hold him to it.

[A]

I doubt it. I sincerely doubt it.

[B]

I give you my word on that.

[A]

Well, you say.

[B]

But I.

[A]

But I already told you like 10 things he did and you don't see any problem with their. So I don't know, like what could he do? Let me give me an example of something he could do that would piss you off. If he did it, if he did.

[B]

Anything new, what Biden did, making campaign promises, lying through his teeth about a laptop and about money that he collected and about what he did with his son. And then preemptive pardons for his family, unheard of for anything known or unknown.

[A]

Biden just pardoned all the people who beat up cops and forced their way into the Capitol.

[B]

Bill, I'm gonna tell you what I think about that. I'm gonna tell you, I think that's true.

[A]

You don't like cops, but you know.

[B]

No, no, I do like Kyle. A lot of good friends is Kyle. Oh, yeah. My mentality has totally changed. But let me tell you this. I just interviewed two people that were pardoned. They got pardoned Monday night. I had them on my show on Wednesday. Did you know? I know this is going to be a tough point with you. I don't trust these people for you lie to me once, twice, three, you continue to lie to me.

[A]

It's on tape.

[B]

No, what's on tape?

[A]

Them doing these crimes. It's on tape. We can watch it.

[B]

Let me tell you something. One of these people who happened to be an ex Marine, never in trouble in his life, veteran, never in trouble. You know what his job was when he got out? He had a foundation going after people that were human trafficking. He was rescuing.

[A]

I don't know every one of the.

[B]

James, I want to tell you there.

[A]

Are people on tape, we see them doing it.

[B]

Well, maybe it was the 25 informants that the FBI planted that day.

[A]

You listen it way too much.

[B]

It's the truth, bill. There were 25 informants.

[A]

They admitted to it that they weren't in. Well, informants.

[B]

If you what were they doing there?

[A]

If you mean that the FBI was aware that there was a riot brewing and some put some people on the ground but they weren't fomenting the riot.

[B]

How do you know that? Why would 25 informants be there? Not one of them got arrested.

[A]

So all these people who came to Washington, sometimes some from all over the country, they came there just looking for a picnic grounds or something. And then the FBI on the spot. What about the ones who came with zip ties?

[B]

They came for a protest, they didn't come for a zip ties. I don't know about those people.

[A]

Exactly. You don't know about, you don't want to know about. See, I listen to both sides.

[B]

You plainly do not listen to this for four years. And finally had listened to your channel for four years. No, I have not.

[A]

Club Random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus at Radioactive Media. Congratulations. You survived 2024 and the start of 2025. Not easy. Now the question is, how are you as a business owner or CMO going to ensure your business survives and thrives? Clearly, if you're still standing after that start to the year, you have the ability to overcome anything by taking control and steering it in the direction you want to go. So why not utilize something reliable and stable for your marketing efforts and tap into the power of podcast and radio. In the US Audio reaches more than social media and digital combined. My friends at Radioactive Media know the recipe to launch, optimize and scale performance by building compelling audio campaigns which work. Their personal approach and knowledge of the medium is unparalleled. For advertisers who want to reach the right audience with the right hosts and programs, you need to speak with Radioactive media. Text random to 511-511-HECK, why not do something innovative and sponsor my show? If you're a mid sized company or a well funded startup, Radioactive can help. They believe in the power of audio so much they even use it themselves right here, right now. Learn how you can harness the power of text messaging. Go to RadioactiveMedia.com or text the word random to 511511. Discover how audio marketing can surpass your current strategies with new and innovative ways that sound better. Go to RadioactiveMedia.com or text RANDOM to 511-511-Text RANDOM to 511 today, message and data rates may apply. Welcome to the White Lotus in Thailand.

[B]

The Emmy award winning HBO original series returns. What happens in Thailand stays in Thailand. What does that mean? It means we're not done yet. A new season of the White Lotus premieres tonight at 9pm on Max.

[A]

Well then you, then you. There are people that caught with zip ties and stuff to basically kidnap people.

[B]

I'm going to tell you my theory on what happened based upon what I know, okay? Speaking to people that were pardoned, speaking to the lawyer that represented a lot of these people that were pardoned that worked on it. Number one, did you know this Nancy Pelosi's son in law was in the crowd telling people to go into the Capitol where her daughter was taking pictures of people coming into the Capitol. Her daughter's a producer.

[A]

Oh, I know her daughter well. She's a, she's a director.

[B]

Okay, a director. But she was there with a camera inside the Capitol. Why? What was she doing there?

[A]

Well, it was the day we were transferring power.

[B]

But why was she there?

[A]

Because she's a, she's a filmographer. That's what she does for a living.

[B]

Okay, so she just happened to, her.

[A]

She could have been there.

[B]

Her husband was outside telling people to come in and she happened to be there with a camera.

[A]

So that's your theory, Nancy Pelosi's daughter.

[B]

Fomented the riot on January 6th? No, no, I'm not saying that. Let me ask you this, Cash Patel just testified in front of the confirmation here.

[A]

Yeah, he said he, even, he, even this fucking right wing QAnon nut, even he says he's against Trump pardoning the J6 rioters. He said that he.

[B]

Did you know that because some of them beat up the cops. I understand that. Right, okay. But did you hear what else he said that days before this protest, Trump went to the, he was in the Department of Defense at that point and he went to Kash Patel and he said, we're going to need the National Guard there that day. We want to make sure the area is secure. They prepared and got the National Guard ready to be there. Kash Patel himself called Nancy Pelosi, called Chuck Schumer and called the mayor of Washington D.C. and they all refused the National Guard.

[A]

Why? Now that could be true if the.

[B]

President wants them there because he knew maybe this will get a little out of hand. Why did they refuse it? I'm going to tell you what my theory is and you can say you're crazy.

[A]

I have to look at those facts again. But I have heard that before from reputable sources that, well, Kash Patel testified to that, testified well in the confirmation. Yes, I know. Well, it's a, that's, this is a kangaroo court now. They're going to, it's a Republican Congress.

[B]

No, Democrats are questioning him too.

[A]

Yeah, they're questioning him, but they're not going to get to vote him out. He's going to be the.

[B]

Yeah, but we're not talking about that. Whatever the vote is, the vote is. But this is his testimony.

[A]

Yeah, he just said, saying, I don't take it as the word of God, his testimony.

[B]

But if Donald Trump requested the national God.

[A]

Yes, but that part I would like, I would, that part I would definitely look into more. I mean, I have heard that from, from not just right wing sources and there was something, but plainly when, when it started to go sideways, he did not seem very invested in figuring out a way to stop it. He could have, you know, done a hundred things, but he just seemed to want to watch it on tv. But look, Michael, that's not even the thing that I blame him the most for because it's a little squishy some of the facts. Look, he's Donald Trump. Do I think he played it wrong? Of course he's Donald Trump. But what I blame him for is just to this day, but including, and most importantly from the election in 2016, rather 2020 until January 20th when Biden took office, still never conceded. So of course, if you don't concede, the people out there who are your rabid followers are going to do something like January 6th, they were going to do something. His crime to me is a slow moving crime of no, I never conceded. All I try to do is find crazy ways to contest this election. I will pressure the Justice Department, I will try it in the courts. I will call attorney generals and ask them to find votes that don't exist. I will send fake electors. I will do all this shit. And while he's doing all this shit, of course his people out there and his shills in the media are going to be saying, look, he hasn't given up on this. How can you possibly do something that would not give up on this? What could you do? Oh, like go to Washington the day that they're going to pass the torch of power, which is the jewel in our crown in this country, man, is that we do that, we pass power, you know, like in your business, your old business or your father's business. That's not how they pass power. You come out of Spark Steakhouse, they shoot you in the head. It was a lovely dinner. And you wish you had that after dinner, Operative, because now you're dead. And you would have enjoyed it, but you didn't. But that's. That's not how we want to do it in this country.

[B]

I agree. Bubba, I gotta tell you this. I'm a former street guy, and I look at things sometimes very cynically. I'm sorry. The way these people acted in the past four years. Everyone. First of all, Nancy Pelosi. Listen, Nancy Pelosi's father was connected with the mob in Baltimore. They put him in office as mayor there. She has the same characteristics as a mobster, I'm telling you right now. And I take it personally, because she's a tough.

[A]

Give me that.

[B]

She's not tough. She's crooked.

[A]

She's crooked.

[B]

100%. She made herself wealthy on insider trading, Bill. You gotta tell the truth.

[A]

Yeah, that may be true. I read 100%.

[B]

There's no doubt about it. She loses her office for her own piggy bank. She hates Donald Trump again.

[A]

I honestly don't think she's in it for the money. She definitely had money now.

[B]

She got a half a billion dollars or something like that.

[A]

You're sure about that?

[B]

Well, no, I'm not sure, but these are the numbers. No. Okay, let me tell you what I am sure of. I'll tell you what I am sure of.

[A]

I'm not sure, but I. Just say it.

[B]

She's worth 300 million. I'm sure of that.

[A]

How do you. You're not sure of that? You're just.

[B]

No, I am sure of that. She's admitted to it. Oh, she did? Yeah. She's worth $300 million, her and her husband.

[A]

No, I read that there was something shady about some, but she's not the only congressperson. Was they even. I said that before they even introduced. Right. Look, when it's right, I, I. Republicans and Democrats. I'm an honest broker.

[B]

I know you.

[A]

That's what it is. So I know you are, you know.

[B]

But I. I think you're. I never.

[A]

I will never, ever.

[B]

By the way.

[A]

Yeah?

[B]

You don't drink wine, huh?

[A]

No, I really don't.

[B]

You know, I mean, I like to go straight to you on the bottle.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that for me?

[B]

That's for you.

[A]

That's very kind. Thank you so much.

[B]

Let's know, what is wine? The wine is from Armenia, but I.

[A]

Understand you're in the olive oil business.

[B]

No, not in the olive. Pizza and wine.

[A]

You know what I love about your history is that it's almost a story. In the Godfather, you wanted to go to medical school.

[B]

True.

[A]

And you came back because your father needed you. That is the plot of the Godfather. I mean, one of the reasons it's such a great script is when you first see him. He's with Kay at the wedding, and he tells the story of Luca Brasi. And then he says to Kay, that's my family, Kay. That's not me.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And then when he's in the hospital, when he's taking. And he's moving his father because they're going to come get him, and he says to him, I'm with you now, Pop. I'm with you now. It's such brilliant screenwriting because it works on both levels. I'm with you physically, and I'm also. Well, I'm with you now. You got me. I didn't want to be in the Mafia. But you know what? Kind of a good job.

[B]

You mind if I have a little. Good.

[A]

Because I have a. I'm sorry. Yes.

[B]

I have more for you. We brought you a lot. We have this here, too. Pomegranate wine. Something you've never tasted before.

[A]

Is this something you do as a business?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Pomegranate. Well, we know that's good for your balls right now, isn't it? Good for.

[B]

That's what they say.

[A]

First urinary health or something very healthy.

[B]

Flying off the shelves. People love it.

[A]

It is. Yeah. And you made the decanter look like a pomegranate.

[B]

People love it. They're making sangria out of it. Everything. They love it.

[A]

I love a hitman who's artistic. That's what I kept. No, you were never.

[B]

Well, I wish I could claim the design, but I can't.

[A]

You were never a hitman, right?

[B]

Yeah. Let me put it here.

[A]

Did you ever push a button on a guy? Bill, come on, I'm asking you.

[B]

You always have to ask that question?

[A]

Well, it's a thing. It's your thing.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

It said, did you ever push a button on a guy? Because a Godfather. Is it one or two? Where Chichi is? John is testifying, Mr. Cheech. That's true.

[B]

And they brought his brother in, right? Yeah.

[A]

Mr. Cheech, what is a button, man? You know, Senator, they tell me to push a button on a guy, and.

[B]

I push a button.

[A]

Push a button?

[B]

Yeah. You kill them. Remember, we have a lot of buffers that Line.

[A]

Yeah. Did you ever get the order from Michael Corleone? No. We had a lot of buffers.

[B]

Just to show you how honest I am. Please. I'll go to a certain point.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I spent 20 years in that life. Obviously, it's a violent life at times.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You're involved in life. You're involved in the violence. I leave it at that.

[A]

Yes. I don't want any guests to feel uncomfortable here.

[B]

Well, that's my answer.

[A]

But now I want to make me uncomfortable.

[B]

I want to go back to something. This is important, because I'm going to tell you this. I'm not blowing smoke. I really have a lot of respect for you, especially.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

No, I mean that. Because you just tell it like it is.

[A]

I do.

[B]

You really do.

[A]

Even when it's right back at you about.

[B]

Exactly. As a matter of fact, I did a whole podcast on you saying something about, you know, the. The left and how they've been honest and all that. I said, look, even Bill understands this.

[A]

Nobody puts the knife into the left better than me because I understand them. And it disappoints me so much when she won. I mean, when she lost, what I said was, first of all, I just.

[B]

You didn't want her to win, though. Be honest.

[A]

Yes, I did. Because I don't want him to win. There's only two choices. Okay? Let's not go back.

[B]

That's not right.

[A]

Let's not go back.

[B]

No, no. I got to tell you, this is what bothers me.

[A]

It's what bothers me. No, no. So we have to just leave it at that.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

I have to leave it at that.

[B]

Well, let me just say this.

[A]

You're not going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince you. So why.

[B]

Why would you want somebody that's so incompetent that couldn't take care of our country?

[A]

Well, there you go. That's why I didn't vote for Donald Trump. Okay. So we just see it different. Yeah, you see it differently. So the key to this country is we have to be able to, like, have that and then go and let's talk about other things, like how many guys you killed. We don't have to do that. But. No, that was. That's fine. You're in a violent life and. Well, what are the. What are the good times like, though? Like.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Because, I mean, I pictured the scene in Goodfellas where they're walking into the nightclub and they're going through the back, and I'm going to Tell you, down for them. Was there a lot of that.

[B]

Henry Hill never walked into the back of the Copacabana. Henry. He never looked so good as he looked in that movie. I knew Henry very well and I happen to like him. But Henry was a problem person. He was either a drug addict or an alcoholic at the same time. He didn't have the stature that they showed him to have in that movie.

[A]

But he wasn't even Italian.

[B]

No, he wasn't made. He wasn't made. He was an associate.

[A]

Yeah, like at the Gap. Would you like to talk to one of our sales associates?

[B]

He was an associate. He didn't take the author. But the movie was. It was fairly accurate. It was fairly accurate, except for that part.

[A]

Huh? He wasn't. He wasn't a mocker like that. He doesn't. He wasn't one of the big ballers, but he.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, but was he a good earner? No, no, not a good earner. You got to be a good earner.

[B]

He wasn't a good earner. He was. He got involved in drugs. What makes a good earner?

[A]

What makes a good earner?

[B]

In that life, you had two different kinds of people. You had the racketeers and you had the gangsters. The racketeers were the guys that brought the money in. You can consider me a racketeer. The gangsters. See, I was fortunate and some of us were where we knew how to use the life to benefit me in business, to benefit us in business. The gangsters just didn't have the capability of doing that. So they did a lot of the heavy work, let's put it that way, heavy work. And I'll give you an example. In our family, the Colombo family, we had 115 made guys in my time, guys that actually took the oath. 115. We had a lot of associates and people, but we had 115 made guys. Out of those. 115, 20 of us were really earnest.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. The other 95 who had a no show job, who got a union job, who's trying to scrape out a living, that was it.

[A]

And why weren't they let go? Like they would do a GE every year, cut out the bottom 10. No, you can't. Because once you're in, you can't.

[B]

You can't. Well, that's what they say, but what.

[A]

Sort of pressure do they put on you to be a better earner?

[B]

If they know you can't, they don't really. Yeah, but like, if, you know, some other work had to come Out. You had to do that.

[A]

And what would you say the perks are? Like, what? What? Like, okay, say Henry Hill didn't get to go into the Coca somebody. But you did. You went to the Copa like that.

[B]

My father was a king of. Of Copa.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I was going there since I was 9, 10 years old.

[A]

And so they would treat you like royalty. Royalty?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they feared you.

[B]

No, not because they've been. Look, my father, myself, we were outgoing people. We took care of the waiters and the waitresses. We did the right thing. You know, they had a problem in the place. We straightened it out for them, you know, we made sure that everything was right in the place. You know, I want to tell you this. My dad taught me a lot of good things. Unfortunately, he did 40 years in prison. And he wasn't around me that much when I was on the street, because he was always in jail. But he taught me a lot of good things. One thing he taught me that I never forgot and really worked for me in my former life. And now he said, mike, always be good to the little people. Now, he didn't mean that in a demeaning way. It's just the way he spoke. He said, take care of the little people, because they're the ones that make you strong. It's not the people on top that want to cut your legs out in this life especially, he said, but it's the people that you take care of and you give respect to. And I've been that way my whole life because my father taught me that. And it's the right thing to do. And, you know, so that's why you get into going to the back of the Copacabana. Not because they're afraid of you. Because that doesn't work. Is just treating people the right way, being there for them that's important. Now, I met everybody that you can imagine during that era with my dad and then really on my own. The corporate closed later on, but it was a great place. It fit 300 people. The tables were this big. Cause they crammed you in there, you know, narrow. But it was the best place to see a show. Cause you were right on the stage. And guys right there, like me and you right here.

[A]

But you cherish those memories. I loved it. Of your father. I'm talking about teaching you those.

[B]

I. I loved it. I loved what my father taught me. My father taught me other things. He said, listen, be the last one to judge somebody. Last one. Because your turn is gonna come, and they're gonna remember how you Judge the other person. Cause, you know, look, I gotta be honest with you. In that life, you know, you're sitting down in meetings sometimes where somebody's life is at stake.

[A]

I was always glad this house didn't go to strangers. First Clemenza took it over. Then you. My father taught me many things. Right in this room used to be a big desk.

[B]

Can I. Can I say that you're a fan of mob movies and so taught me.

[A]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[B]

And what's the brother teach you that? Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes, absolutely. What's the best way to defeat your enemies?

[A]

Kill them. No, kill them at Steaks Park Steakhouse. When they walk out after a fine meal.

[B]

The best way to defeat your enemies? Make them your friends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Think about it.

[A]

No, I mean, that's very true. I mean, I think in the third one, he says anger clouds your judgment.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But let's be honest. That is not really the history of how the Mafia works. I mean, the Mafia works basically on fear. Do it our way. And by the way, this is something that empires throughout the ages have done. This is what the Roman Empire did. This is what Genghis Khan did. You know, we can get along very well if you just do exactly what we say, or we'll kill you. So. Which would be a choice for you?

[B]

Last for a time, but Chaz Palminteri, very dear friend of mine, we were together last night. Bronx sale together. You mean we had dinner together. Bronx Tale.

[A]

You love that movie. Great. Great movie.

[B]

Do you remember the scene when Sonny is talking to little Collojo? And Collo says to him, is it better to be feared or to be loved in your life? And Sonny talks about. And he says, it's better to be feared in my line of work. Okay. Good line in a movie. Cut to. I asked Chaz, I said, chaz, you around? Chaz is not a mob guy. But he was around. Grew up in the neighborhood. He knew people.

[A]

Ish.

[B]

I said, let me ask you this right now. In our life, my former life, you think it was better to be feared or to be loved? He said, oh, it's better to be feared. I said, you're wrong, Chaz. Right. He said, what do you mean? I said, let me tell you. Fear did keep people in line, myself included. No question. Fear kept us in line to a degree. But here's what happened when the RICO statute came out. And Rudy Giuliani, you have to say, the guy that learned how to use the RICO statute against the mob, the Most effective prosecutor in that regard. When that statute came out and became so detrimental to our life, because now you could get. Murder can now become a federal crime where before it was only a state crime, but it's a predicate act.

[A]

In the rico there was some mission creep.

[B]

Yes. So here's what happened. Now you get indicted for RICO, you're going to get 100 years like all the commissioned guys. So what they did to guys is said, listen, we're going to put you away for 100 years. You're not getting any bail, you'll never make parole. We'll give you some money, we'll put you in a witness protection program and you testify against these guys. They're going away forever. Don't worry about it. What happened is the fear of the mob was transferred to the fear of the government. That's what destroyed that life.

[A]

Governments can be a mafia, so can police departments, you know, I mean, when you give people power, some will take it.

[B]

Like government.

[A]

Yeah, they know absolutely. No, it's, it's, you know, but what Winston Churchill said about our form of government, democracy, it's the worst form of government. Except for all the others.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, you can't give people too much power.

[B]

Too much. I agree.

[A]

Jack Webb on Dragnet said when somebody was complaining about one of the cops, he said, yes, ma'am. But we have to recruit from the human race. You know, humans are not good people. That's my essential.

[B]

We're inherently bad. People are inherently bad.

[A]

Yeah, kind of.

[B]

They gotta turn to the good.

[A]

I mean, there are some who somehow are saintly and altruistic, but it's not the default setting for humans.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And civilization, I always say it, it's a mile wide and an inch deep because like you, the slightest little thing and, you know, people would eat each other, you know, I agree. I'm not saying if I was on a plane crash and there was nothing else, I would eat somebody. But yes, I would and you wouldn't. What, as opposed to being eaten?

[B]

Yeah. Well, you know, hopefully we never have to make that choice.

[A]

But I understand, you know, dog eat dog world.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I mean, we are anim. Very close to below the surface. And it's amazing, actually that we keep the veneer of civilization as much with the lid on as we do. When I think about how many nutty people are out there with nutty ideas and weaponry and it's basically, you know.

[B]

Because they're not accountable to a higher spirit, like I am accountable to God. So you try to Stay on track.

[A]

I mean, just when I drive around the city, okay, there's like hundreds, thousands of people who were all in these big, very dangerous things that we could, if we wanted to, just go fucking nuts and drive it through the plate glass window of the store. And people don't. And there's the occasional accident, but basically we're whizzing by each other. Who the, you know.

[B]

Well, they know that they would hurt themselves also. Maybe they weren't going to hurt themselves. They might do it. Who knows?

[A]

Yeah, but I mean, like a lot of accidents these days are people on their phones and yes, just. I'm not saying it's necessarily malicious or they go nuts or zombie esque and you know, it's, it's Mad Max. But yeah, some of that. I mean, the kind of people who live on the streets who you see are crazy. What if they got behind a wheel? What would they, what would a homeless, the kind of person who you're like, oh, that guy, I feel bad for him, but, you know, I'm staying away because he's obviously dangerous. He's, he's got something. He's swinging, you know, what if that guy got in a car? How does that not happen? I don't want to give the homeless any ideas because they're big fans of this podcast, but.

[B]

Well, I mean, they were. From what I was, from what I read at one point, they were standing on a, on an overpass on the freeway and throw rocks down on there. I mean, yes, you know, on the.

[A]

Cars look as an olive branch politically. I'll tell you something, because I'm telling you, I don't hate everything. I'm not going to pre hate. Here's something I absolutely do not hate about Trump being president again. Police morale will go up. And police morale needed to go up after George Floyd in 2020. Police who have a racist history. But so does everything in America have a racist history. Okay, we're unfairly branded something they're not. There are bad people everywhere. But it is a tough job. And we also know about the police. They're quite sensitive. I don't blame them. They do a hard job. That is pretty dangerous. Not as dangerous as others. I have the list, but okay, still dangerous and stressful and you wouldn't do it. And somebody has to do it because of that whole civilization being an inch deep thing. And you know, people in this city, even the nice liberals, you know, the ones who still have their houses not burned down. We had a little trouble here with fire recently. Okay.

[B]

So thanks to your governor and.

[A]

Well, it's not thanks to the wind, but yes, there were things that.

[B]

Come on, sweetheart.

[A]

My first editorial this season was all about how the government could have done better. So don't tell me.

[B]

Oh, no, I know that. I know that. Yeah.

[A]

So. But it was mostly the wind. I also made that point. Okay, anyway.

[B]

But water in the hydrants would have helped.

[A]

Water. I made that point.

[B]

And the reservoir would have helped.

[A]

And the mayor being here.

[B]

And the mayor being here.

[A]

Lots of things. And not choosing a police, a fire chief because she was the best lesbian. A lesbian can do the job. I said, which is true. Of course it's true. But they didn't choose the best person. They wanted to. Just. It was, let's have a lesbian first and then we'll get the best lesbian. Okay, that's not good enough for a job of this.

[B]

It was very important. It was very important to choose a lesbian. No, no, no, listen. In case they had to rescue a lesbian in the fire. And the lesbian is going to be a lot more comfortable seeing another lesbian. Didn't care how big she was or if she can carry her out. Bill. This is so insane.

[A]

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[B]

Yes.

[A]

What you're referring to, if people don't know is somebody else in the department, a deputy chief said something like when people are in an emergency, like a fire, they want to see someone who looks like them coming. No, they just really want to get.

[B]

Out of the way. Should have been fired on the spot. That's ridiculous.

[A]

And again, this goes back to what I said about the worst thing Biden did. He just gave in to every bad impulse from the fringe.

[B]

That's not the worst thing Biden did. Okay, let me tell you the worst thing.

[A]

He asked for an answer, Bill.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Forget about him stealing the money and being treasonous. That was as a vice president. Well, okay, let's get back to you.

[A]

When I was being nice to Trump.

[B]

And saying that he. No, no, no, before you say that. The worst thing Joe Biden did, okay, the guy's got blood on his hands for what he did at the border and allowed people to come in here to kill people in this country.

[A]

He did a terrible job with the border. Is it enough that I agree with that?

[B]

Okay, why did he do it? Because he wanted to turn every state blue. There was no other reason for it. And so they would never lose another election.

[A]

These people are fair. I don't know if that's so much as it is something even worse. Oh, that.

[B]

Let's hear it.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that. Well, the, the left, the, the big, they're big. Their biggest problem, I think they have many psychologically, but one is the, you know, wine sipping liberals, the white liberals. The white liberals, this is mostly they just have this crazy need to beat themselves up about race in ways.

[B]

What else do they do? That's all it is.

[A]

It's so part of their identity. And of course, it's so hypocritical. It's like if you really feel that bad, go switch houses with somebody in common. I'm sure they'll be happy to live in your house in the Valley and you could live in mine.

[B]

You'll never see that happen.

[A]

No, of course, none. But. So that's the thing is that they did not want to be. They so don't want to be seen as racist. That it's somehow in their. This is again what they do that's so infuriating. They go to the ultimate end of what's counterintuitive often or just dumb. And they go all the way To. Well, then we can't stop anybody from coming into the country because that would be racist. And that's not racist. It's just what every country has to do.

[B]

I hear you and I appreciate that, but I don't believe that they're. That. That they're worried so much about that. These people.

[A]

No, they are. Trust me. This is my people. These are my people.

[B]

Well, no, they're not.

[A]

These are my people. I know these people.

[B]

Bill, they're not even your people anymore because you've said it right. You haven't changed. The party has changed. They're not your people.

[A]

What I mean is, they're people I know because I live here amid show business in Hollywood. And I'll admit this, too. Show business and our community is the epicenter of the problem. It is worthy. It's where the stupidity is deepest about this kind of stuff. I mean, I'm a proud liberal, but I'm not a.

[B]

Do you think they really care about these people? That they're bleeding hearts and they needed to come here?

[A]

No, I'm not saying they do. I'm not arguing with you now. What I'm saying is similar to what you're saying. It's so important to their identity. They're what I call liberals in theory because I see how some of them act like in day to day with people, with their assistants, that kind of stuff. And it's so not liberal. It's just so cunty and. And you know, born to the manner and, you know, they're often very well to do and not afraid to spend their money on the stupidest things. So. Yeah.

[B]

Such hypocrites. Come on.

[A]

They're such hypocrites.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

They really are. You don't have to. Biden couldn't give it if Biden, if he showed any.

[A]

We're talking about a sliver of people here. We're not talking about all Democrats.

[B]

He's at the head of the. He was at the head of the. For four years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can I assure this. Right.

[A]

And that's why the Democrats lost because they. They lost their touch with their own voters.

[B]

They lost because their policies are horrible.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

And they still haven't gotten it because.

[B]

No, they're still fighting.

[A]

They're still arguing the. The. We're going to probably talk about this on my show Friday. The new head of the Democratic Committee, is it.

[B]

Yeah, I see.

[A]

And they started the meeting like, okay, we have to. We lost an election terribly to the guy we said could never win. Okay. And he did it again. Okay, so we need a new leader and a new way of doing things. But first we must acknowledge that we are sitting on land that was properly owned by the Chamash people. Same thing, you fucking idiot. You know, I did a whole bit on it in my special. Like really, either shut the fuck up or give it back. Those are the only two choices. And you don't want to give it back.

[B]

Okay? So my theory, and I think it's based on sound foundation. The only reason he opened up the border, didn't care who came in, who killed who, whose taxpayer money went to spend. He didn't care. Make every state blue. That's it. You never lose theory.

[A]

That's again, the reason why I believe you think that is because I have a pretty good idea of what media you listen to. So that's the kind of thing they say. And there may be some truth to that, but you know, first of all, it's a bad idea. You know why? Because the Latinos are voting for Trump now.

[B]

But they didn't know that they were so bad.

[A]

I understand.

[B]

They thought it was going to go the other way.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

They thought it was going to go the other way.

[A]

I'm not sure that was. I think it's more. The other thing is we're not racist. Everyone should come here. Yeah, okay.

[B]

Everyone should come here. And every taxpayer should take the. They didn't calculate anything.

[A]

As with everything, there's a sane middle ground. I mean, like when Trump says the rapists are criminals and they're eating the dogs.

[B]

Okay, well, they do eat dogs like this.

[A]

It's so funny. Like, nobody will just come to the middle. Like, absolutely. Most immigrants just want a job and they're law abiding. But also, you know, that, that Venezuelan gang is not a boy band. You know, I don't want them in my country to get back to my thing about the police. Yeah. The people in this city. And again, oh, here we got off track when I was going these kind of phony baloneys, you know, here in the, in the nice restaurants and the people you see out on the town, like, they're fed up. They're fed up that they can't go east of La Brea anymore without fearing for their life. They're fed up that they, you know, saw carjacking and they don't wear their good watch watch when they go out now because they're going to get taken off their roof. They don't want to live in that world, that city. Like, oh, Please, I mean, they.

[B]

I know. And who gave them that?

[A]

Again, you're not arguing that this is what the Democrats have to get. You're even going to lose the, you know, the Upper west side unless you come to grips with this. And again, I think the police will have a better morale because Trump, again, with everything with him, nothing in the middle, a little too much perhaps, but at least they know this guy has their back and they feel like nobody has our back. You wouldn't do it. It's a tough job. You have to make decisions in split seconds. We get tarred as racist for the entire police force of the country because this asshole did this and this, did this. And, you know, things have changed. I always say to people, live in the area you're living in. I did some very rough editorials about the police 10, 15 years ago, and a lot of the things I was complaining about have changed. Back then, no cop ever went to jail for anything you could do. Whatever the cop did, they would come out and say, it's right in the manual. It's right in the manual that you shoot a guy in the back if he's six years old. Okay, that's not. Then keep up with what happened. Live in this year, there have been many cops who have gone to jail and also police chiefs who have not backed the guy who did the crime. You know, it's a different world. And cops, most of them are young. What's the uncoolest thing you can be in Los angeles if you're 25? A racist. So, you know, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but, you know, I want the police to feel like, no, we appreciate it. Yeah, we don't want to live in uncivilization. And we get it that you're the guys who make that possible. Now, could I get another drink?

[B]

Waiter. The dumbest thing that I ever heard, and this is from a former mobster who didn't like the police at one time, is defund the police. It was the stupidest. So stupid they come up with stupid ideas. They make you need the police.

[A]

They can out stupid that. How about when a baby's born, we don't know what sex it is. I mean, a penis is a what. It's what, it's, it's, it's an indicator of some. I don't know.

[B]

So. So you like the Trump's executive order? There are now only two genders recognized.

[A]

No, but I'm very glad that I'm in one of the ones we're keeping I really.

[B]

Okay. Don't you think it's. Don't you think life is supposed to.

[A]

Be like in the mob speaking? Come on, it must be what the women like. Did they throw themselves at you like rock stars? If you're in. Really?

[B]

It was pretty good.

[A]

Yeah. Is it like in Henry, what's up, Goodfellas?

[B]

Goodfellas.

[A]

I mean, there it was like women.

[B]

Were attracted to it. Women are attracted to power, bad boys.

[A]

Right?

[B]

A lot of women are attracted to bad boys.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But I want you to know, I'm married 40 years now.

[A]

How many?

[B]

40 this year. 40.

[A]

Wow. 40.

[B]

Young woman that saved my life.

[A]

Saved your life?

[B]

If I don't meet her and walk away from this life at some point, I'm either dead or in prison.

[A]

So a woman got you away from the life. Tell me that story.

[B]

I met her. She was 19 years old. I was producing a movie in South Florida.

[A]

How old were you?

[B]

I was 31.

[A]

Completely appropriate.

[B]

Yeah, 31. And we had taken cast and crew from LA to work in the film. And 20 professional dancers was a dance movie, and she was one of them.

[A]

And I love it.

[B]

I met her and I love it. That was it. And then I'll tell you what. What? It really.

[A]

That was it. You knew right away.

[B]

I did.

[A]

How?

[B]

I just knew, man.

[A]

I just, you know, people say.

[B]

Blown away by that something about her, it was different than. Look, you know, I was around a lot and she was different than every other woman that I had met. And I want. I'll tell you this, I'll go even deeper. I call them mob life. Cosa Nostra, Mafia, they're evil lifestyles. But I want to be clear, I'm not calling the guys evil.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, why do good people do bad things? There were good people there.

[A]

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

[B]

Correct. I like that.

[A]

Well, that's what the Christians say. And you know, I'm a very. I'm a Christian devout.

[B]

But one day. Can we have another conversation about that? Not today, but about Christianity.

[A]

Why not right now?

[B]

We can do it now, but let me finish my point.

[A]

Do we have an agenda here?

[B]

No. That's even.

[A]

Do I look like I have one?

[B]

That's even better. But let me tell you this. The reason I call it an evil life, I don't know any family of any member of the life that hasn't been destroyed, including my own.

[A]

Destroyed?

[B]

Destroyed like dead or. No, destroyed with a family is just a mess. Let me explain. No, not my wife and kids. I've Been able to shield them from that.

[A]

But, Michael, you can never lose your whole family.

[B]

You can.

[A]

That's what his mother says.

[B]

No, she's wrong. Let me tell you.

[A]

You can never lose your family.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Well, she says that too.

[B]

He didn't yet. And then he go and killed his brother. Right, but he didn't. He killed Fredo after that.

[A]

Yes, he did.

[B]

Okay, you're right. But my mother. My dad does 40 years in prison. My mother, 33 years without a husband. She passed away in 2012. Her relationship with my dad ugly because she blamed him for everything that went wrong. Rightfully so. She was innocent. My sister dies of an overdose of drugs, 27 years old. My brother, 25 years, a drug addict. What I had to go through just to keep him alive on the street. My other sister, 40 years old, dies. She wasn't all there.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

The family was destroyed. And every family of every member of that life that I know goes through a similar fate. So any. Any lifestyle that does that to a family is no good. It's bad. So I meet this girl. I fall in love with her. She's 20 years old. I said, am I gonna marry her and put her to do the same thing? Cause I got a huge target on my back. Seven indictments already. They're never gonna let me go. Never. I'm going down. It's. I'm not. You know, hey, I beat all of these cases. I'm not the Teflon, Michael, or any of that. I knew eventually, I'm going down. And I said, I got to make a choice. At the same time, Giuliani went crazy with the RICO indictment. Giuliani told me in the courtroom, day of my arraignment, he gave me a million dollar bail. He said, if I convict you on this case, you're getting double what your father got. I'm gonna give you 100 years. That's the kind of time they were giving us. By the grace of God, I beat that case or I wouldn't be here right now. So I said, it's only a matter of time. And when I go, I'm going forever. There's no question. So that's when I started to say I got to get away from the life.

[A]

So you met her before you went to prison?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. But she stayed with you even though.

[B]

Stayed with me eight years while I was in prison.

[A]

Really? And visited you how often?

[B]

As often as she could. The government gave me a very hard time because they would move me around toward the.

[A]

Is there such. Is they still have conjugal visits?

[B]

No, Feds never had conjugal visits.

[A]

Do they still do that? Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You get conjugal visits in the state?

[B]

Under certain conditions.

[A]

But you didn't for eight years. You didn't have. You were in prison.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And you couldn't get a conjugal visit.

[B]

No. And I spent 29 months and seven days in solitary. Six by eight. So that's it. Me and me in the cell in the hole. In the hole. Shoe. That's you. Special housing.

[A]

How do you get through that?

[B]

Tough.

[A]

Like what? Like what do you. Well, listen, what do you do all day?

[B]

You read.

[A]

Oh, you can read?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even in the hole?

[B]

Well, they give you books.

[A]

Well, then that ain't the hole. That ain't the hole. I know.

[B]

No, I can't believe that.

[A]

They have ruined the hole.

[B]

That's the hole, you know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Everybody can have books.

[A]

It was just like. It was literally a hole. Like in World War II movies. Like when you throw that. When they. The Nazis throw you in the hole. Trust me, there's no reading.

[B]

I don't own a military prison in Germany. Was. But I'm saying in civilized prison here in the United States, you can read in the hole. Yeah.

[A]

What do you think about people who are in solitary? You know, that to me is solitary, Bill. Oh, I know, but I'm talking about solitary just permanently in the prison. Yeah, that's what. It's crazy, right? That'll drive you crazy. You need human contact.

[B]

Absolutely. I mean, to keep you sanity. I saw a lot of things. Things happened bad. There were guys that just couldn't handle it. I don't demean them. It was rough. I mean, I've seen wrists being slid and a lot of bad things.

[A]

So how do you take care of your sexual needs for eight years?

[B]

You don't. That's it. Very simple. You don't.

[A]

Yeah, I remember one.

[B]

You come out crazy.

[A]

There was a great scene in the Sopranos where Tony sees a guy at a gas station who. You know the scene. No, he didn't kill him. No, this was a. He ran into him. He had just. This is a guy who had been in prison and he just sees him and he comes over and he's like, oh, wow, you know, it's great to see you. I'm glad you're out. And, you know, the guy you could tell is a little bitter. And Tony says, you know, I wanted to this and I wanted to that. And he goes, yeah. And I wanted to have sex with a woman, but I masturbated into a tissue for five years.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Does that describe your experience?

[B]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but masturbation?

[A]

Why are you so shy about that?

[B]

You're in prison.

[A]

At least you didn't take it up the ass.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A lot of guys did.

[A]

A lot of guys did. Against their will?

[B]

No, I didn't see much of that.

[A]

Not against their will.

[B]

Most guys.

[A]

It's interesting that you see more of.

[B]

That in the state. Not as much in the feds. Feds. A little more. They got more control.

[A]

Okay, so if you're saying, if you have to go to prison.

[B]

Oh, you want to do federal time. Without a doubt.

[A]

But I will say this about the Michael Corleone killing his brother thing. May I?

[B]

Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

I think it was wrong. But you got to admit, after that, Connie stopped her bitching. Okay?

[B]

Yes, but it was wrong.

[A]

It was wrong.

[B]

You don't kill your brother.

[A]

No.

[B]

Hey, my brother, you know, became an informant.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And where is he? Alive?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really? Witness Protection.

[B]

He was.

[A]

He was?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's that like? Do you. Do you know even. Or is even the family kept away from knowing the identity?

[B]

Yes. If you.

[A]

Really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're not in touch with him because he was in the program?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I. I didn't speak.

[A]

So he could be living as. As. As Joe Flemstein and Sheboygan.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, my brother. I didn't speak to him for 10 years.

[A]

Holy crow.

[B]

And then at a 70th birthday party, surprise party. And my wife invited him.

[A]

Wow. You're 70. You look good for seven.

[B]

I'll be 74 this year.

[A]

Holy.

[B]

My dad lived.

[A]

Good Italian olive oil skin.

[B]

My dad lived to 103.

[A]

Johnny Fontaine with his olive oil skin. And you really know that a man in my position cannot afford to look ridiculous.

[B]

That's right. Now you get out of here. You like that?

[A]

You tell him I ain't no band leader. Oh, yeah, I heard that story.

[B]

Until he got the horse's head. And by the way, people ask me all the time, did you ever cut off a horse? I said, no, we don't do that. And then.

[A]

And then.

[B]

No, no, no, listen. And then two months ago, I read an article about guys in Italy that cut off a head and left it in somebody's.

[A]

You know what? They ought to have a Mafia museum.

[B]

They do. The Mob museum in Vegas. You've never been?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, there's a Mob museum.

[A]

You would love it. And they have, like, a horse's head you would. You would love the mob cement blocks that they put guys feet in when they put them over the.

[B]

I can't believe you don't know there's a mob museum.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

It's a terrific exhibit.

[A]

A lot of people say Vegas was better when the mob ran 100.

[B]

100.

[A]

You know that you. Were you there?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You talking about the Rat Pack days?

[B]

Yes, Days of the Dunes Hotel. And we own those places. I mean, why was it? Why build Vegas? You know, the mob.

[A]

Oh, of course. That's what the. I mean, the character of Mo Green in the Godfather is really. Bugsy Siegel. And Bugsy Siegel. I mean, the great speech that Lee Strasberg has in Godfather 2. There was this kid, we started out together, did all our first work together.

[B]

That was Meyer Lansky.

[A]

Right? Meyer Lansky. He kind of looked up to me. I was a little older, made a fortune during Prohibition. We ran molasses to Canada. Your father, too, later on.

[B]

I'm really impressed with this.

[A]

He had an idea to build a city out of a desert stopover for gis. This was a great man, a man of guts and vision. Someone put a bullet in his eye. When I, you know, that's Mo Green, that's Meyer Lansky. Because he's saying he's a great man because he built Las Vegas. And he did.

[B]

It was his idea.

[A]

It was his idea.

[B]

What did he say? He said, I didn't get mad.

[A]

I didn't get mad. I knew Mo didn't blame anybody. Headstrong. Saying stupid things. When I heard about it, I didn't ask who gave the order. I let it go. I said, this is the business we've chosen.

[B]

You got it down.

[A]

Now, that $2 million in your room.

[B]

It'S not here, but it's on the table.

[A]

When I get out of. I'm going to take a nap.

[B]

And that was a phony scene. What do you mean? Meyer Lansky had juice, but he would have never taken control of that meeting with other maid guys in there.

[A]

There.

[B]

No, really, no. No way. He was Lucky Luciano's guy. You know that.

[A]

What do you think about other mafias that come along? I mean, are you jealous? Do you guys have sort of beef with each other? Do you. You know, I mean, mex. I mean, there's a lot of Russian mafia.

[B]

I got along great with them. They were my partners. They were my partners in the gas business.

[A]

That's so cynical.

[B]

We made a lot of money together.

[A]

The Russian mafia? You worked with the Russians?

[B]

Yeah. Three Russian partners made More money with them than anybody else. They were great partners. Now, don't try to connect me to Donald Trump or something through that now.

[A]

But that's because they're ruthless.

[B]

No, they weren't ruthless. They were good businessmen. They worked 24, 7. And I'll tell you what happens with Russia. I meet them, whatever, you know, the background that I was defrauding the government, had a tax on. You know that. So when I meet them, they had a number of gas stations called Gas Stop. It was their own brand. But they couldn't get the licenses that we needed to in order to collect the tax. Couldn't do it. So I cut a deal with them and I said, here's the deal. 75% me, 25% you. There's three of them, right? Mike Markowitz, he was a Romanian Igos. I don't think that's very fair, Mr. Michael. I said, no, it's very fair. He said, why? I said, because we're street guys. I know you're going to steal a little bit. I said, this way, I got the major share. I said, you steal a little bit. I said, just don't let me catch you. Right? He goes back, Bill, he talks to his other two Russian friends. He comes back, he says, we got a deal. And we were together seven years. We never had an argument. We made a ton of money together.

[A]

There's a lot of heart in crime, you know, There really is. I didn't realize that there's a you. So you have a kind of a camaraderie with the other criminals that you're.

[B]

Hey, we're still. We're men. We're still. We had this brotherhood going together.

[A]

It's a man. I mean, what a man does for a living. But your business is a little dangerous.

[B]

Listen, I have said this and everybody. Michael, come on. It's not true. It is true. In my era, in that life, we were not allowed to deal with drugs, right? We were told if we dealt with drugs, we would die. And I know guys that got killed because of it. We were not cartels. We didn't move. In Italy, yeah, there are big heroin deals and all. Not here. We couldn't do it. Were guys doing it on a sneak. Of course, they're trying to make a living. But you wouldn't. Weren't allowed to do it. The reason Gotti was in trouble because his crew was dealing drugs. I'm not saying John was. I don't know if John was probably getting a piece, but he wasn't directly doing it. But that's why Castellano was gonna kill him.

[A]

But that is really the difference between the old Mafia and the new Mafia. They got into drugs and it was a corrupting force. Well, they couldn't.

[B]

Drugs are bad business. Dirty business. Bad. Exactly what Don Corleone said.

[A]

Exactly what he said.

[B]

100% right. They don't forgive drugs. The DEA, the cop, they don't forgive drugs.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they shouldn't. And that's another reason I gotta go back. Why? I hate Biden. You know, Bill, you know, fentanyl is coming in in this country in droves. How do you not. You're the president. You were put in a position of trust. Your number one priority is to. Is for the safety of the American people. That's what you swore to. You took an oath. Can I tell you something? Joe Biden is worse than half of the mob guys I knew on the street, Bill. You gotta admit it. There's a bad guy. Come on. He's a bad guy. Donald Trump wouldn't do that. Donald Trump is closing the border. He wouldn't do. No, he has a conscience, at least.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, Joe's shortcomings, I don't think, come out of a desire to see kids on fentanyl, but he did. But you're right. You're right in the sense of, are you responsible?

[B]

100%, he's responsible.

[A]

You know, so they're not going to stop all the fentanyl coming in by stopping immigration. I think 80% of it comes in through citizens of the United States.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, you know, the post office.

[B]

Some of it, too. Yeah, I know that. But a lot of it is coming over the border. I like what Trump said. You bring this stuff over, we're going to shoot you.

[A]

Right. Well.

[B]

And that's what they should do.

[A]

It's so funny.

[B]

I'm sorry. I am a Christian, but I have.

[A]

So far in this conversation, like, there are things that they will pull out the whole, like, first 40 minutes of me, like, railing Trump's asshole. They'll put that and say where they hate me.

[B]

Like, look at them.

[A]

And then they'll put the things where I'm agreeing with you about how crazy the left is, and they'll just show you on that.

[B]

Oh, I hope so.

[A]

That's. No, that's what they do. Whereas to really understand, you have to watch the whole conversation.

[B]

Yes. I think a lot of people do when you're involved.

[A]

I hope so, but. I see, but plainly. Thank you.

[B]

How long you been doing this?

[A]

31 years on TV without a break. I'm going to tell you 31 years.

[B]

I'm going to tell you something. It's amazing to do 31 years without a break in this industry.

[A]

And this is how much the media hates me. They won't even cover that because, like, even though I voted for her, I'm not good enough. That's one reason I really have a thing for them. They just, they're so exclusionary unless you're with them 100%. And anyone who stands out of line and goes, yeah, I'm not gonna go with you 100% because a lot of what you think is so fucking stupid. And I'm not gonna pretend I don't see it.

[B]

I know, but that's because you're a man, you have integrity and you speak what you say. I mean that. Yeah, I'm serious.

[A]

No, I know.

[B]

And look, I'm. And you pay a price for it. My son in law absolutely loves you. And I was mad at him at times. What do you like this guy for? I'm serious. I used to say, what are you? What do you.

[A]

And now look at us, we're bros.

[B]

And then in a letter last couple of years, I'm saying, man, I think I was wrong, Bill. He says it like it is. What do you believe? And I really mean that.

[A]

Well, I will not be the one to break the peace we've made today.

[B]

But listen, I just want to. You don't have to admit to anything. I just want you to think about this because maybe we'll come back. It doesn't have to be. Come over dinner, give Trump. And you are. You said it. I'm not going to hate every day. I'm going to give him a chance.

[A]

I will not pre hate.

[B]

You will not pre hate. Hate. The guy is going to.

[A]

What I hate, I will say, okay, and what I don't hate, I will.

[B]

Say I believe this about Trump. And this is the only reason why I like him. I don't know him. I think he cares about the people in this country.

[A]

He does. I would not argue with that. He genuinely loves America, loves, you know, everything it gave him. He just has a mental problem. He's a, you know, narcissist is a word they throw around a lot. They don't really understand when they talk about it. I think that it's an actual psychological issue. It's in like the Psychology Digest, it's diagnosable. Like if it was bipolar, people would be like, oh, God, bipolar. We can't have that. Narcissism they just kind of think, oh, it's a personality quirk work. It's way beyond that with him. If you love him and you flatter him, everything is great. And he will never disagree with you or denounce you, whether you're Vladimir Putin or Satan. And if you oppose him, then he will just goes immediately into five year old, I will destroy you mode. I just don't think this is a way to run a railroad. I just don't think, think ultimately this is going to turn out well. But you know what? Again, I don't think it's bad that we're reexamining a lot of things that just slowly, this country was bloating itself to death. It's just. Just things like slowly over time, like the way no government program ever ends. If you start it, it grows and it grows. And yes, I'm not yet going to condemn Elon Musk, even though he seems to have a cadre of teenagers who are running through the government to find things, but I don't know, maybe nobody but a 24 year old has the energy to do that, Bill.

[B]

Some of these kids, I mean, I have a team around me. I can't even. I couldn't compete with them. These kids are brilliant.

[A]

What do you mean a team around you? For your podcast?

[B]

Yeah, for all my stuff, you know, my company and all that. And a lot of them just my partner here, I mean, he does things that I can't even. I don't even want to know. But I said I don't even want to learn. It's too complicated for me. These young kids are smart.

[A]

And are any of your managerial skills that you brought to podcasting borrowed from your days in the old life? Like you break a knee if somebody, you know, in the break room too long or something?

[B]

I mean, look, you know, the answer is yes. I mean, no, I don't mean breaking knees. No, I don't mean that. But I'm saying I think the most important thing in life to be successful. I mean, one of the very, very strong elements is really know how to deal with people now, how to deal with people. Networking is extremely important. Knowing how to deal with people and, and you're on the street, if you don't know how to deal with people, you're not gonna last. You know, honestly, I was one of the youngest.

[A]

You were in New York?

[B]

Yeah, New York, mostly.

[A]

One of the five families. Yes, Columbus.

[B]

I was in Brooklyn.

[A]

Not affiliated with the Columbia School of Broadcasting or the University. Just a completely different family. Completely different and the families were. I think I can name Colombo, Gambino. Bon Jovi. No, close. Wait, that. Oh, God. I used to know these. Lucchesi.

[B]

Lucchese.

[A]

Lucchesi. What was Carmine Galante?

[B]

He was. He was a Genovese guy.

[A]

Genovese. Yeah, Genovese.

[B]

And then one more.

[A]

One more.

[B]

You could eat it in the morning with your cereal.

[A]

Germaine.

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, that's the Jackson 5. It's yellow custard.

[B]

Close.

[A]

No lemon.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Eat it in the morning.

[B]

Cereal with the orange juice.

[A]

Family. No, I don't. I forget Bonano Banana. Right. I forgot about those.

[B]

And Colombo. You forgot that. That was my.

[A]

I remember when I was living in New York in 1979, and the front page of the Daily News. I'll never forget it. The picture of Carmine Galante gunned down with the cigar in his mouth and the blood running out on the floor of Umberto's Clam House.

[B]

No, that was. That was Joey Gallo that got killed there.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, was in another restaurant.

[A]

It was. It was not.

[B]

Okay, yeah, Joey Gallo was killed just outside.

[A]

Okay, so they have the Mob Museum. What about a mob tour?

[B]

They have that, too.

[A]

They got. Mob tours have been done.

[B]

They got one in Chicago. How. I. I'll tell you what. Listen to me and just have one.

[A]

In New York where you can see all the places. Sparks.

[B]

I could take you there. But.

[A]

No, but that. Wouldn't that be good? I mean, all the places where. Yeah, that's where I do started, with the Black Hand. Remember the Black Hand?

[B]

Maybe they do have one. But here's. Here's a deal I'll make with you, and this is totally on you if you ever want to go to the Mob Museum in Vegas.

[A]

Yeah, I might do that.

[B]

Call me. No, let me take you, because I'll give you a tour, like. And I know them all there. I know the.

[A]

Believe me, if I'm going, I'm going with you.

[B]

It'll be good.

[A]

Am I going to go with Carrot Top to the mom? No, go with you to the Mob Museum. Go to Carrot Top to the Experiment Rhino. We'll.

[B]

We'll have a good time. But what. You're going to watch that movie, right?

[A]

Gotti 19. Oh, Gotti from 19.

[B]

1996.

[A]

You think I can only get it on YouTube?

[B]

Well, I don't know. Anywhere. I mean. No, I don't know where I get it.

[A]

Yeah, I will get it.

[B]

It was brilliant. Okay, Want to go back to Trump? Or you want to forget Trump?

[A]

Go ahead. Whatever's on your mind.

[B]

Well, you already said you're going to give the guy a chance, and you said this, too, which I appreciate. You believe he loves America and you believe he loves this country.

[A]

I do.

[B]

I don't think Donald Trump will do anything to hurt America.

[A]

Not intentionally.

[B]

Not intentionally.

[A]

Okay, well.

[B]

And I think the other side has done a lot to hurt.

[A]

Not intentionally.

[B]

Oh, come on.

[A]

Oh, Jesus. It's such. Such bad faith to think that way. So this is what I always tell the left to not to do is to hate the other half of the country.

[B]

I don't hate them.

[A]

But you just said that you think they want to hurt America intentionally.

[B]

They do. They do.

[A]

Okay. If I thought the right intentionally wanted to hurt America, I would hate them. But I don't think that. And I don't think it doesn't intentionally want to do it either.

[B]

When you know that people are coming into this country and killing other people and raping and murder.

[A]

Not most of them, but many of them. Some of them. There's. In any group of a million people, there's going to be some criminals. Same with immigrants. Actually less than the percentage of citizens, because immigrants, when they're here, mostly what they are is scared and they don't want to be caught. So, like, I notice when I drive around here or anywhere, but definitely my area where there's a lot of maids and gardeners and so forth, like, those people drive perfectly. They do not want to get involved with law enforcement.

[B]

Let me ask you this.

[A]

The white people will do anything. The white people are like, excuse me, if they wave, I'm gonna jump across three lanes and cut you off and then come back and cut you off again. The other.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

That's what the white people do.

[B]

Let me ask you this. Let's take it a step further. Christopher Wray, what did you think of him? Head of the fbo. Oh, God.

[A]

Are we going to go?

[B]

No, no, no. Just quickly. I like him. I thought he don't like him.

[A]

I thought he was a straight arrow.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which he was. And if you don't think that.

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

You're ideologically cast.

[B]

I'm not going to comment on him.

[A]

Okay, great.

[B]

Christopher Wray got up there and said, we have terrorist cells that have entered this country in the past couple of years.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

They're operating within the country.

[A]

I said I thought Biden did a horrible job with the border, but you know that they.

[B]

There's terrorists coming into this country, and you get it.

[A]

Close the border. You want a finger? I said, he did a terrible Job.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[A]

We just disagree on what the motivation was. You think it was intentional?

[B]

100%. Because. Because when he knew it was happening, why didn't he close the border?

[A]

Okay. Letting the people in was intentional. The motivation. No, it wasn't. To hurt America.

[B]

Well, once he knew that they were here in this system.

[A]

Listen to. Because. Because the left has, again, this thing in their brain. These are the people with the signs on the front yard that say, in this house, we believe.

[B]

So you think, Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[A]

Let me just.

[B]

Biden was a humanitarian.

[A]

It's very important in their minds that they think of themselves as humanitarians.

[B]

Michael, he was a racist, too. Look at all the racist comments he made in his career. Biden was a racist. He was a humanitarian.

[A]

You know what? He's the same kind of racist that Trump is. A man of a certain age who hasn't gotten certain memos. That's all it is. Do they really? I don't think even Trump is that kind of a racist. They want to paint him. No, he did some terribly racist things like, you know, his crusade against the. The Central Park Five.

[B]

That was wrong.

[A]

That was wrong. And also, the Central Park Five were not innocent of other crimes, just not that one. Okay, so I'm glad you admit that was wrong.

[B]

I was wrong.

[A]

Okay. But do I think he hates black people? I do not. I think he wants to be a hero to everybody. And I think, like with anybody. Again, back to his quirk. Anyone who flatters him, black, white or green is Persona grata. And anybody who doesn't.

[B]

But you're getting off my point.

[A]

What was the point? Point.

[B]

Biden. When Biden knew. No, when Biden and the whole. Listen, when Biden and the entire Democrats in control.

[A]

You're giving him too much credit.

[B]

And everyone in control knew that this was happening. Why didn't they immediately shut the border and say we got terrorists within our country?

[A]

Because I explained.

[B]

We have to stop. Our own FBI director is telling us that.

[A]

I explained to you why already. I'm glad I'm not married to you because it must be hell.

[B]

I live.

[A]

Because 40 years you just. I know, but. But you don't. After you get the explanation, you still keep going.

[B]

You.

[A]

Which is fine, but. Yeah. I've never been married.

[B]

No.

[A]

Isn't that amazing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

69. We're almost the same age.

[B]

You don't look 69.

[A]

Look, if I look like you in five years, I will fucking take it. But yeah. You know what? I never would have thought when I was younger, and when I heard about this age, that it was going to be like this, I would thought it would be way worse. Really? I mean, they kind of presented it as like, you're one foot in the grave, decrepit, and you can't do anything anymore. It's like, I, I, I'm not that different than I, I'm waiting for the, for the other shoe to drop, but at the moment I'm not. It's nothing is that different.

[B]

I'm glad you said that, because I don't feel much differently than I felt 20, 30 years ago.

[A]

Yeah, no, I was expecting a much older man and a more reasonable one. No, I'm fucking with you.

[B]

You know what I think? Listen, you might think I have this block in my head with Trump. I don't. The way I look at it this way, Bill, I have a wife. I have children. I'm 74 years old. I probably live longer than I thought I was going to live when things were tight for me. But I'm worried about their future. I want this country to be the country that, believe it or not, I grew up in. It was great. I love America for that. I want them to have the same. And in the past four years, it scared me. I said, what the heck is going on here? It really scared me. I said, what are my kids and my grandkids? I have seven grandkids. What are they going to? What kind of world are they going to live in? What kind of country are they going to live in? And it really worried me. And that's why I like Trump, because I think he's trying to straighten America out.

[A]

There are things that, I mean, I said it on my. It's so funny to the point about, like, they only report the part they want to report. Last week, I said something very complimentary about Trump, probably maybe the only thing in the whole show. And of course, I forget what outlet was. That's the one thing they picked out because they hate me. So they want to show Bill Maher was like kissing Trump's ass. What I said was, and I'll say it again, and I'm perfectly happy to say it a million times. When they asked him about the plane crash over the Potomac and some reporter said, are you going to visit the crash site? Now, any other politician would go, well, of course, it's our prayers and thoughts. And he went, the crash site, it's the water. What, do you want me to swim to it?

[B]

I remember that.

[A]

And it was like, that's when I like Donald Trump. And that's why people like him, because he said what was real. Yeah, he has the ability to do that. You know, he's done other badass things. That thing where he was with the Taliban dude and he has the guy bring in the aerial photograph of the guy's house and he goes, that's your house. If one American is hurt in this withdrawal, we know where it is. You know, I love America. I do too, always have. And I'm a history major and I've read the news since I was a teenager. I know not from traveling as well as other people perhaps, but I know what the rest of the world is like and I'm old enough to have studied the history of it going back to the 60s. I have a good perspective on this country versus every other country. So many of the young people today, they have no interest in even finding out. They have this idea in their head that they live in a terrible place that's worse than every other world. They could just get out. That would be the thing. Just get me the fuck out of here. Good fucking luck. Even with all our problems. No, I will always be with the. You know, I like America. It's got its issues for sure, but we don't need a revolution, we need to fucking fix it. Fixing is different now. Would I go about all the fixing ways he's doing it, invading Greenland, etc. No. But I'm willing to see where it goes. I will never be willing to concede that he should be there in the first place because you really shouldn't be a guy who doesn't believe in elections, results. That's a no brainer. And one thing that I can't give on, but he's there. I live in the present. You know, it's funny, Michael, these people, they come up to me all the time, you know, when I'm out and it's like, oh my God, Bill, what are we gonna do? You know? And I'm always like, get a fucking grip. Look around you. You're in a fucking restaurant, you're eating a fucking $800 dinner. Shut the fuck up. When your life actually goes in the toilet, then tell me, but don't confront me with this cognitive dissonance between oh my God, what are we gonna do? And your cushy fucking life.

[B]

Life. Exactly.

[A]

There are some people who are going to be hurt, like perhaps by what Trump is doing. The people who can't afford eggs now. I didn't see him solve that problem.

[B]

Well, you know, you know what? You proved you just said the media is not supporting you. Whatever. But 31 years, you didn't need them.

[A]

Didn't need them. And now more than.

[B]

You don't need them.

[A]

Now more than ever now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's interesting. They let the podcasters into the press room now.

[B]

I know I applied. I don't know if I'll get in.

[A]

Oh, I think you will after this. I think you.

[B]

I would love to. That would be like a milestone. You know what else was a milestone for me?

[A]

I can actually arrange that.

[B]

Could you?

[A]

Well, at least a conduit. Right to the top, please.

[B]

Easy. I really mean, I would be very appreciative.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Any favor that you. It's not even my daughter's wedding. You know, I'll do whatever you want if you can get me in. But you know what else? You know the other thing that was really satisfying to me? Three days ago, I had Rudy Giuliani on my podcast.

[A]

How's he doing?

[B]

Well, he was great. He was a terrific. Sit down. It was just great. Yeah. For me, it's like, came full circle. This is the guy that wanted to put me away for 100 years. You know what he said to me? He says, michael, I've been watching you for 30 years. He said, I really think what you're doing is real. He said, I respect you for getting out of that life and turning your life around. And it meant something to me coming from him because I knew we were badly unopposed.

[A]

Right. For people who don't know, in the 90s, he was the prosecutor in New York, and then he was the mayor.

[B]

He was a great mayor. Come on. After 9, 11. He did a great job. America's mayor. He was great. He's a great leader.

[A]

That, to me, that's the formula. A Republican moderate, which he was then in a blue place. When you find that, like Republican governors in blue states, Larry Hogan and Maryland or others, it just works because they can't get too far. Right. Because it's a blue state, but they're not full of bullshit nonsense. So their popularity is always like, you know, 80%.

[B]

So can we do that here?

[A]

I was gonna say, can we just fucking get that formula here?

[B]

Well, in California.

[A]

Oh, in California, yes. That could happen here in Cal. That's exactly what California needs.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And I say that, and I like Evan Newsom a lot. Don't even start the argument. But no, I was hoping at some point point he would moderate to the center. It doesn't look like it's happening, so I can, like somebody personally but taking the shields in. Yeah. As all the Democrats are looking for.

[B]

50 million to fight Trump while the city is burning.

[A]

Well, we have done this podcast on land that rightfully belongs to the Chumash tribe.

[B]

I'm not getting.

[A]

And I would like to apologize for us just being here before we go off the air.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you have anything you want to plug before I.

[B]

No. I mean, we had a great glass of wine again.

[A]

The book and your mafia. Where do we. Where do we find your podcast? Your very popular podcast?

[B]

My podcast is on YouTube and rumble and Everywhere.

[A]

They also like you and the book Mafia.

[B]

Promise me you'll read that book. At least breeze through it. I want you to read because it makes a lot of sense. I don't want to get into all now because I get carried away. Books and movies and it's. Trust me. And let's say you know what you're full of or I agree with you.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Yeah. I think.

[A]

Well, I already know what I think about you. That's a foolish with you. And it's a healthy dose of. That's what makes friends. You know.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I thought when your time came. Michael. Senator Corleone.

[B]

You got that down. You sound just like him. Him.

[A]

I don't apologize. That's my life. And I refuse to dance on the end of strings held by big shots. I want all the calls checked out. You don't know who it is.

[B]

You got it down.

[A]

What's the other.

[B]

You got it down. I got it down.

[A]

I'm going to do the other line, but okay. I did it, Pop. I checked. That is amazing.

[B]

That's for you.

[A]

That is awesome. Oh, there's Chaz.

[B]

There's Chaz.

[A]

Marlon Paul Sorvino. Oh, Phil. That's the guy who I jerked off into a tissue.

[B]

That's the guy.