Sam Harris | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Sam Harris | Club Random with Bill Maher"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Club Random with Bill Maher
• Host: Bill Maher
• Guest: Sam Harris
• Release Date: January 12, 2025
• Description: Bill Maher conducts hour-long, one-on-one conversations with diverse guests in an undisclosed location called Club Random, focusing on topics beyond politics.

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Introduction

In this episode of Club Random, Bill Maher engages in a profound and unfiltered conversation with philosopher and neuroscientist Sam Harris. The dialogue traverses a broad spectrum of subjects, including historical ethics, political dynamics, societal issues, and the impact of technology on human relationships.

---

Fashion Industry Critique and Historical Ethics

The conversation begins with a critical examination of the fashion industry's ethical practices. Sam Harris raises concerns about the sustainability and morality of mass-produced clothing from overseas:

• Sam Harris [02:08]: “Are we charging hundreds of dollars for something that costs $14 in China?”

Bill Maher concurs, highlighting the deceptive pricing strategies prevalent in the industry:

• Bill Maher [02:27]: “Well, why would you if your margin could be larger, no matter what it is.”

The discussion then shifts to the historical complicity of well-known brands during the Nazi era, with Maher pointing out the long-lasting reputations of companies like Hugo Boss:

• Bill Maher [05:07]: “He [Hugo Boss] was the Volkswagen of clothing.”

Sam Harris expands on this, emphasizing the enduring presence of these brands and their historical baggage:

• Sam Harris [05:22]: “And these brands still exist. It's quite amazing.”

---

Holocaust Documentary and the Banality of Evil

A significant portion of the episode delves into discussions about the Holocaust, referencing the documentary Shoah. They explore the lack of archival footage and the focus on personal testimonies:

• Sam Harris [06:25]: “There's no archival footage. It's just shot in the 80s...”

Maher reflects on the disturbing nature of human indifference and the ease with which ordinary individuals can commit atrocities:

• Bill Maher [08:29]: “The ability for humans to forget that the other guy is also a human is just unbelievable to me.”

Sam Harris underscores the multifaceted nature of evil, distinguishing between banality and sadism:

• Sam Harris [09:05]: “There’s real sadism, there’s real pleasure taken at the suffering of others...”

---

9/11 Hijackers and Motivation

The hosts discuss the motivations behind the September 11 attacks, speculating on the mindset of the hijackers:

• Sam Harris [10:02]: “The three of the four did not know they were on a suicide mission...”

Maher expresses skepticism about the planning and execution of such an attack, pondering the psychological state of the perpetrators:

• Bill Maher [10:44]: “They think they’re actually doing good. That’s the scary part.”

---

Misinformation and COVID-19 Lab Leak Theory

Sam Harris and Bill Maher tackle the controversial topic of COVID-19's origins, specifically debating the lab leak theory versus the wet market hypothesis:

• Sam Harris [13:05]: “Not all misinformation is false. Some are evolving...”

Maher shares his perspective on the ongoing debate and the public's confusion:

• Bill Maher [14:13]: “It could have been the bats in the wet market.”

Their exchange highlights the importance of open scientific inquiry and the challenges posed by misinformation:

• Sam Harris [15:08]: “We should still be worried about lab leaks...”

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Trump's Political Influence and Future of Trumpism

A substantial segment of the conversation focuses on Donald Trump's enduring influence on American politics and the potential future of Trumpism:

• Bill Maher [31:30]: “If the Democrat wins it, they're just going to be ever more suspicious... That's an intolerance.”

Sam Harris contemplates the sustainability of Trumpism without Trump himself:

• Sam Harris [35:28]: “I have no intuitions about that very much...”

Maher expresses concern about the Democrats' strategies and the potential for increased polarization:

• Bill Maher [32:51]: “What's going to happen is the next time a Democrat wins, there's going to be a fucking shitstorm.”

---

Race, Class, and Antisemitism

The dialogue shifts to the intricate interplay between race and class in America. Sam Harris advocates for addressing wealth inequality as a means to disproportionately benefit marginalized communities without emphasizing race:

• Sam Harris [43:53]: “There are profound inequalities that are highly correlated with race in America...”

Bill Maher discusses the entrenched wealth disparities and the challenges in rectifying them:

• Bill Maher [44:56]: “It's going to take a century.”

They also explore the persistence of antisemitism as both a symptom and a perpetuator of broader societal issues:

• Sam Harris [55:17]: “Everything that's wrong with antisemitism is a symptom of this larger problem...”

Maher criticizes the conflation of past and present racial issues, arguing for a more nuanced approach:

• Bill Maher [57:00]: “A world where there's black and white, white bad, black good...”

---

Technology's Impact on Social Life and Loneliness

Addressing the digital age, the hosts lament the increasing isolation and superficiality in human relationships fostered by technology and social media platforms like OnlyFans:

• Bill Maher [82:19]: “Millions of people... this is going to end well.”

Sam Harris highlights the disparity between online personas and real-life interactions, emphasizing the detrimental effects on genuine human connections:

• Sam Harris [84:45]: “The virtualization of everything... people are very different online than in real life.”

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Elon Musk and Social Media Ethics

The conversation turns to Elon Musk's role in social media transformation, critiquing his management style and the spread of misinformation under his leadership:

• Sam Harris [69:49]: “He’s addicted to Twitter, and it’s deranging his personality and undermining his ethics.”

Bill Maher acknowledges Musk's innovations but remains critical of his interpersonal conduct:

• Bill Maher [68:54]: “I think he's sincere. He likes to fix things...”

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Conclusion: Societal Dissatisfaction and Moving Forward

In the concluding remarks, Bill Maher and Sam Harris reflect on America's societal challenges, emphasizing the need for balanced policies that uphold Western principles while addressing fundamental issues like wealth inequality and educational disparities without descending into identity politics:

• Sam Harris [77:37]: “The Democrats have to find their patriotism gear by 2026.”
• Bill Maher [78:01]: “We love the country. We’re asking to rule that little thing.”

The hosts advocate for a future where American values are defended through integrity and pragmatic solutions rather than divisive identity-based rhetoric.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sam Harris [02:08]: “Are we charging hundreds of dollars for something that costs $14 in China?”
• Bill Maher [05:07]: “He [Hugo Boss] was the Volkswagen of clothing.”
• Sam Harris [09:05]: “There’s real sadism, there’s real pleasure taken at the suffering of others...”
• Bill Maher [31:30]: “If the Democrat wins it, they're just going to be ever more suspicious... That's an intolerance.”
• Sam Harris [43:53]: “There are profound inequalities that are highly correlated with race in America...”
• Sam Harris [55:17]: “Everything that's wrong with antisemitism is a symptom of this larger problem...”
• Sam Harris [84:45]: “The virtualization of everything... people are very different online than in real life.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Club Random offers a deep and unvarnished exploration of contemporary societal issues through the lenses of Bill Maher and Sam Harris. Their candid conversation provides listeners with a multifaceted understanding of complex topics, challenging prevailing narratives and encouraging critical thought.

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Note: The timestamps correspond to the moments within the provided transcript where the quotes were made, ensuring proper attribution and context.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Sam Harris]

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[Bill Maher]

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[Sam Harris]

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[Bill Maher]

So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. This episode of Club Random was filmed prior to the devastating fires in Southern California.

[Sam Harris]

Elections worked.

[Bill Maher]

You're thinking so logically, Sam.

[Sam Harris]

This is how he won everything. He won. He ran the table. Club Random.

[Bill Maher]

Don't put that on the poster. I can put up with any two hours. Sam Harris raves Club Random. You all tucked away? Sam, you here?

[Sam Harris]

What's happening? Bill Maher.

[Bill Maher]

When did you expect at Bill Maher's house? How are you?

[Sam Harris]

Good to see you.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, look, we're wearing the same thing.

[Sam Harris]

Are we?

[Bill Maher]

That's embarrassing.

[Sam Harris]

Was your made in China?

[Bill Maher]

Why? Is it everything?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, it's. Is that still true? I'm amazed at the brands that do not take the step to make their clothing in America when they're charging many hundreds of dollars for something that costs $14 in China.

[Bill Maher]

Well, why would you if your margin could be larger, no matter what it.

[Sam Harris]

Was, I would think it would. It would make consumers feel good. At least in America.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I mean, the whole fashion industry is the most made up industry in the world. I mean, all you have to do is walk into any department store or clothing store and it says, you know, 80% off from the Number you made up to begin with.

[Sam Harris]

Yes. Which you've never seen.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, we made up a number. We said it cost $2,000 and now we're selling it for 250. What do you think about that? And people vote for it. I mean just if everyone.

[Sam Harris]

This podcast is 80% off.

[Bill Maher]

I wish if everyone really was as altruistic and good a person as they say, the whole industry would go away. I mean every penny we spend on fashion would really, in a more, you know, altruistic world. If we're just going to be completely elimothinary about everything would just go to the poor who have. Don't. Can't afford to change styles every year. Like the collars get big, the collars get small. You know, all they do is like there's only so many variations on clothes.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

Even when you see movies that make place in the year 10,000 on another planet, they're basically wearing the same. Same thing. Yeah, they're just slight variations in the cut.

[Sam Harris]

Although there are periods in history, I mean if you look back on photos of yourself, there were decades where you. It's just what the hell was happening. Like there was some brain virus that. That translated into bad style from 80s especially. It's incredible. It's really.

[Bill Maher]

And also I would say that.

[Sam Harris]

The.

[Bill Maher]

Cut of things from previous centuries so much more impressive often than today. Not necessarily the fops of the court.

[Sam Harris]

Of King Louis wearing a powdered wig is where I draw the line.

[Bill Maher]

The wig. And anytime they somehow etoliate their faith, you know, like somehow that geisha girls, this extreme whiteness I don't get. I've never got that. But the cut on the jackets is fantastic in some of this.

[Sam Harris]

Well, the Nazis too. The Nazis.

[Bill Maher]

Nazis were very sharp dressers.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. I mean was that Hugo Boss or is that just a meme in my meme in my head?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, it was Hugo Boss. He was the Volkswagen of clothing.

[Sam Harris]

Actually. We need a list of the brands that went all in on the Third Reich because I mean there's some great brands like Mercedes, Volkswagen and Brown and also the I think Krupps, like all these German brands were.

[Bill Maher]

And who, who was the Luftwaffe. Messerschmitt was the name of the German fighter plane. But I think that was also a company or somebody. It's amazing the way it was a deal breaker for the. For the company to go away.

[Sam Harris]

I mean there were, there were. Did you ever see the documentary Shoah, the nine hour Holocaust documentary that I.

[Bill Maher]

Did not, but I certainly was aware of it.

[Sam Harris]

You've got nine hours left in the day after this podcast.

[Bill Maher]

I seem to remember there being a joke in my act about it.

[Sam Harris]

Well, it is. It's been some years since I've watched it, but it is well worth watching. But one of the amazing documents they unveil in this documentary. First of all, it's all modern footage, all shot in the 80s. There's no night and fog, actual Holocaust footage. It's all footage from when the documentary was shot, interviewing survivors and SS guards who would.

[Bill Maher]

It's not archival footage.

[Sam Harris]

No. There's no like bodies in pits or crematoria or any of that. It's just shot in the 80s. But they find the competitive bids for the gassing vans that were designed to gas. Before there was the concentration camps and the crematoria, there were these. They had the bright idea of creating vans where the exhaust system doesn't exit but enters the cargo space of the van. And they got competitive bids from. Forgive me if you get a lawsuit, but I think Mercedes was one of these companies and they have these euphemisms just in the bid. It's like we understand that the cargo has a tendency to rush to the back when the doors close. It has a tendency to rush to the back of the van. Right. It was just.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Sam Harris]

And these. And these brands still exist. It's quite amazing.

[Bill Maher]

What's amazing is humans.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And just how awful they are. Are you familiar with the Wanna See conference?

[Sam Harris]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Did you. So have you seen It's Conspiracy, the Kenneth Branagh film?

[Bill Maher]

I don't think it's called that, but it may be. I. I think I know what you're talking about. And I saw it years ago. It was an HBO movie. Right.

[Sam Harris]

It's based on the actual transcript.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. It's a conference for people who don't know that took place in Wany, which is a suburb of Berlin, on my birthday, although I wasn't born yet. January 20th, 1942. And it's just. It's the banality of evil.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. And with a little topspin with. It's kind of. It's not just banality. I mean, it's like Heydrich was like legitimately evil. I mean, they were all evil.

[Bill Maher]

But the way they perfunctorily talk about. I mean, this thing you mentioned about the cargo has a tendency to rush. You know, that the ability for humans to forget that the other guy is also a human is just unbelievable to me.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

That, you know, you're just two feet away from a guy who you could be suffering like that, but there's zero empathy. It's just not. I mean, some humans, of course, do have it, thank God, but not. But many just do not. Or they even enjoy, obviously, sadistically, other people suffering in a way that they can't even imagine themselves doing it. Well, it's just amazing, humans.

[Sam Harris]

It is amazing that there are. I mean, so I think there is. I think evil is a word we should still use.

[Bill Maher]

Right?

[Sam Harris]

It's not all banal. Right. I mean, there's like. There's, like. There's real sadism, there's real pleasure taken at the suffering of others, but then there's just. Then the people who are imagining that they're doing something good, they're not actually even thinking about the suffering they're causing, and yet they're part of the machinery that sure produces the evil.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I mean, the people, for example, not to pick on any.

[Sam Harris]

Any of our friends, any of our.

[Bill Maher]

Fellow podcasters who already hate us. No, no, I'm talking about the people who flew planes into the buildings on 9 11, for example.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

You know, you've talked about it. I have also, I'm sure not as eloquently, but they certainly thought they were doing the right thing.

[Sam Harris]

I seem to remember you thought they were courageous. Right.

[Bill Maher]

I walked into that one, didn't I? Which they were.

[Sam Harris]

Who were the. Was it the good people at ABC who didn't like that?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, the good people of America thought it was a little too early to make that point.

[Sam Harris]

Although if hitting the wall at 400 miles an hour doesn't entail some courage, I'm not sure what does.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, the only thing that slightly undercuts that is. I've heard. I don't know if it's true. Somebody I'm sure will be out there vetting it. That three of the four did not know they were on a suicide mission, that they thought they were just hijacking a plane. And then when the lead dude was like, all right, comrades, take off your clothes. Cause, you know, you have to die naked or some shit like that. And they were like, okay, I'm sorry. It's a. What kind of.

[Sam Harris]

Can I call my agent?

[Bill Maher]

What mission did you say? I'm sorry, this is a. I can see Woody Allen. There's been a mistake of some sort. I don't mean to be facetious or didactic, but I need to land. And my baggage went to different.

[Sam Harris]

I'm actually better at landing the plane.

[Bill Maher]

But, yeah, that's. You know, they think they're actually doing good. That's the scary part that I think we both see in religion is that people do evil things and are encouraged to do evil things and do them in great numbers, that there's nothing else that really is the same kind of motivator that we've ever seen in human history. Right.

[Sam Harris]

Well, the thing that people are just simply not tracking is that once you absorb that worldview, and that is the lens through which you're looking at just life on earth, basically everything changes. I mean, there are. It's true to say that you can have people who. I mean, obviously there are some prototypically evil people a part of, you know, any jihadist movement, and there are sociopaths and they're bad guys. But there are also people who are absolutely convinced that this is the appropriate use of their genuine compassion. It's like they're feeling real compassion, that what we would recognize as compassion. And they just think that the most important difference of outcomes hangs in the balance. I mean, there's paradise on the one hand, and there's hell on the other, and they have the right answer for how to navigate toward one and avoid the other, and nothing else matters. Right. And so. And literally under that framing, you can't kill the wrong people because, you know, anyone you kill who is destined for paradise is just going to thank you. Right. They're just, you know, you. You blow up, you know, a bunch of non combatants, and if. If there are good Muslims among them, there's no. No, they're just waiting in the bottle room with you and 72 virgins.

[Bill Maher]

No downside.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So, yeah, I blame misinformation, which I know you do a lot.

[Sam Harris]

That was a joke. So there were scare quotes around that word. So you don't like the idea of misinformation?

[Bill Maher]

Obviously, sometimes it's true, but sometimes it's just one day's misinformation is tomorrow's information. I mean, Covid could have started, but not for everything. No, but Covid could have started in a lab was misinformation.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. Although, I mean, honestly, I think there are people who could see even then that. I mean. So, for instance, you and I are on opposite sides of a few of these questions, but that's not one of them. From the first possible moment, I thought that's a totally valid hypothesis, and to call it racist was idiotic. And. And I still don't know what happened, but it's a coin toss.

[Bill Maher]

But I would venture to say that in 50 years, what people will be saying about this is. Wait a second. You're telling me that in 2020 there was this disease that started in the one city where the lab was.

[Sam Harris]

It was named after the disease that.

[Bill Maher]

Was studying it and doing gain of function research. And yet they debated whether it came out of there and even said it couldn't possibly have come out of there. Really. That's what people were doing in 2020. That's what I think be saying that it wasn't obvious to them that this. There's a connection here. Now may. It could have been the. The bats in the wet market.

[Sam Harris]

I mean the problem is that there are still. It's been at least a year since I looked at this. I did a podcast on it and. But I've now kind of ignored it. But no, no, when I did did that podcast, there were still credible scientific arguments to. To argue for a. That the wet market origin thesis.

[Bill Maher]

There still are.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. So it's. It's.

[Bill Maher]

But less and less so it seems over time.

[Sam Harris]

But the, the crucial point is that it was never crazy to have worried about this. And the truth, I mean, we should still be worried about it. I mean lab leaks happen continuously.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Sam Harris]

And where it's. It's just this is something. This is gonna. This could well kill us with something far more dangerous than. Than Covid. Well, and we're not. You know, we don't have it locked down the way we should.

[Bill Maher]

And again, you don't have to ascribe any sort of nefarious machinations to this. It's very possible that sincere people thought the best way to deal with future viruses is to get ahead of it, study it in a lab. Isn't that what gain of function research is to see where it's the virus.

[Sam Harris]

So there are two steps here that are neither of which, in my view make much sense, but it's sort of easy to see how they did make sense to people early on. Happily, I think we've pulled the brakes on much of this, but have we? Yeah, I mean.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, good.

[Sam Harris]

That was. Yeah. USAID was. I mean, so you had this notion of virus hunting where you would send out your virologists into bat caves and in search of possible pandemic pathogens. Right. So there's an uncountable number of viruses out there to be discovered. I think they outnumber any other species of life like 10 to 1. You know, so it's like.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Sam Harris]

I mean just we're reading the word millions upon millions of characterized viruses. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt in this room. I don't doubt it.

[Bill Maher]

It's on the furniture.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, yeah. When I go home, it's like you saw Silkwood, right? I've got a stage when I enter my house.

[Bill Maher]

Where I made you healthier tonight, is what I did.

[Sam Harris]

You're lucky you boosted my immune system.

[Bill Maher]

I did.

[Sam Harris]

Well, I'd like to know the names of the women who've helped in that effort.

[Bill Maher]

I must tell you, I was watching the news last night. I hadn't done that in a while. And there's Lester Holt and he's talking about bird flu. And it's like a three minute package. And the whole time I'm going, oh, fuck, we're all going to die. This is the. It's just meant to make you shit your pants. You know, pictures of chickens. And they get to the end of it and I'm like, oh, this is death. This is another one. It's going to be worse. And then they bring on the expert and there's a question to her, and the very last thing she says after three minutes of shitting your pants is, and the only way you can get it is if you're direct.

[Sam Harris]

If you fuck a duck on top of a cow, I mean, you'd have.

[Bill Maher]

To practically fuck a chicken. Like Larry Flynt says he lost.

[Sam Harris]

I think raw milk is suspect specifically for bird flu. And the cows got it in California and.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I see.

[Sam Harris]

And you can get. And at least theoretically, I think there's some cases that they think are attributable to raw milk.

[Bill Maher]

What about raw goat yogurt?

[Sam Harris]

Raw anything is probably on the dairy aisle. I think it's probably just not worth.

[Bill Maher]

Been eating raw goat yogurt for 20 years and never got sick from it. So. All right, what would you say to them?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, well, the birds are flying over the goats and now on them and the, the goats might get bird flu. I mean, the cows are so.

[Bill Maher]

Well, maybe it'd be a good time to take a break from it.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Maher]

No, but I mean, seriously, I'm. I'm not unreasonable about anything. I don't think that makes sense to me. But in general, I mean, obviously you understand the reasoning why people, people don't do it just for shits and giggles, eat raw. They do it because they want the probiotics in there that pasteurization and homogenization kills.

[Sam Harris]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

It kills the. Just like in our body with antibiotics.

[Sam Harris]

I think if you lick any of the surfaces in this room, you'll get a lot of probiotics. There's a remote control that I Got from a Best Western that I would like.

[Bill Maher]

First of all, I've calmed down a. Yeah. Okay, so let's.

[Sam Harris]

Okay, good, good. Well, that's.

[Bill Maher]

But not completely.

[Sam Harris]

Everything has its season.

[Bill Maher]

Not complete. Well, I don't know about that.

[Sam Harris]

Like, this is Ecclesiastes.

[Bill Maher]

That's why I never got married, is because I was like, I like this season. Why can't I keep this season going?

[Sam Harris]

You know, this calmer season or the.

[Bill Maher]

No, the season of.

[Sam Harris]

The Motley Crue season of yesteryear.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Where I was snorting a column of ants off the floor. That's right. And that's what I was doing. Snorting ants and eating the heads off a bat. No, the season of. You know how people look back and they. They kind of look back fondly on that. That, you know, falling in love era. I'm like, well, if you're looking fondly back on it, why don't you do. Is it. Is it a law that you have to stop it?

[Sam Harris]

That's.

[Bill Maher]

That was always right. But, you know, I understand that. I'm also. We can't have kids. And, you know, lots of.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, there are trade offs.

[Bill Maher]

There are trade offs. Life's all of trade offs. One of the obvious things I feel like the younger generation doesn't understand. I feel like, besides not teaching them, like, how to do math anymore or write or read. I think I heard you say that your kids don't even.

[Sam Harris]

They can't read cursive. Well, so hieroglyphics. I knew they couldn't write cursive. Right. So I knew that that was just. That skill was atrophying and it was just not being taught. And they were taught it in a completely perfunctory way, and they spent, like, two weeks on it, and they never got it. And so obviously it wasn't happening.

[Bill Maher]

Why is it important? It's not.

[Sam Harris]

But then I didn't realize. Idiot that I am, I didn't realize that that would translate into them not reading it. And so literally, they're handed a birthday card from their grandmother, and it's like the fucking Rosetta Stone. I mean, they cannot be coated.

[Bill Maher]

Which, oddly, is the name of their grandmother, Rose. A stone.

[Sam Harris]

They cannot. I mean, they can't decode a single word. Right. It's not like. I mean. And this is pretty counterintuitive because, you know, I don't write. I spend no time writing cursive, but obviously I can read it. It seems. It seems strange that that's.

[Bill Maher]

I do sometimes use it because it's Faster, right?

[Sam Harris]

It's not faster for me. I'm just behind you enough to have.

[Bill Maher]

If you're signing a lot of books or something.

[Sam Harris]

Oh, well, signing your. Having a signature is one thing, but actually writing. Incursive.

[Bill Maher]

Signature is always incursive. Who prints this? Frankenstein. Yes. His ex.

[Sam Harris]

You know, morons. Morons print their signature, but if they.

[Bill Maher]

If they can't read cursive, how can they read a person's autograph?

[Sam Harris]

They can't. No. They know.

[Bill Maher]

Really, they just have to take your word that it says Frank Stallone.

[Sam Harris]

Yes, but I. They should not become famous because neither of my daughters have autographs. Yeah, they can. They. They will. They will struggle.

[Bill Maher]

But I must say, among the things we've lost, I cry the least for this one.

[Sam Harris]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Sam Harris]

Yes. I'm not gonna lay awake at night.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, cursive. That one can go. You know what else could go? Daylight savings.

[Sam Harris]

Yes, I'm with you there. There's a hassle.

[Bill Maher]

And President Trump says he is fully behind getting rid of it. It's part of something good, the MAGA agenda.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I've said that I am not going to pre. Hate anything, so.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, so you and I are taking a similar line there. What I've been saying is that I'm not going to react to anything that hasn't already happened. So all my whinging about Trump and Trumpism relates to stuff that's already happened. And I'm not talking about hypotheticals.

[Bill Maher]

And I'm also not going to react to if he talks about Arnold Palmer's dick or some other silly thing.

[Sam Harris]

No factor in that.

[Bill Maher]

He's a talker.

[Sam Harris]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

He just talks. He's one of those people who talks a lot and he kind of like, just.

[Sam Harris]

Have you ever met him?

[Bill Maher]

Of course.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. And so, like, what was your. There's actually. There's a photo. Yeah, you showed me a photo of you and him at one point.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, that was at the Emmys. I forgot about that time. Yeah, that's a. That's a classic photo.

[Sam Harris]

Do you have any.

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Sam Harris]

Like, a different experience of him in person versus his public Persona?

[Bill Maher]

Of course I have the same experience every single person who's ever met him has, which is. Oh, my God. Not only is he not a monster in person, but he's actually was very nice and charming and, you know, he's one of those guys who's always looking to make connections and network and maybe someday this guy, I don't know. But I'm gonna, like, flatter him and give him like, two minutes of my attention and make him feel like an important person. That's a skill that a salesman like him and a con man like him has to have, and he does have it. I met him twice. Once was at the Playboy Mansion.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, well, you're meeting on area of common interest.

[Bill Maher]

It was the Midsummer Night's dream party. Are you familiar?

[Sam Harris]

I can imagine. No, I have. I wasn't never heard of that. No, I think I've heard of it, but I don't.

[Bill Maher]

It's. It's iconic.

[Sam Harris]

It's.

[Bill Maher]

It was.

[Sam Harris]

Is it a costume? I mean, does everyone show up in costume?

[Bill Maher]

No, it was a party. It was in the middle of the summer, so it was hot out and you had to wear bedwear. Of course, it's an excuse to get the women to wear lingerie.

[Sam Harris]

Right, but do you show up in pajamas, too, or.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, you'd either show up in, you know, guys had different, you know, muscle guys would just, like, have pajama bottoms and no shirt, you know, or you'd have a classy smoking jacket I thought was a good look, you know, but it was just to get the women in them.

[Sam Harris]

Right, but.

[Bill Maher]

So everyone is in their pajama wear and he's walking around the party. He did a lap in his.

[Sam Harris]

Just what he always wears in his magazine, his power suit with the red tie.

[Bill Maher]

And I remember he just went around the party and I talked to him there. And yes, he was quite charming and attentive. And then I saw him at a club in New York in the 90s. We were both at a club again. I know. Common interest. I think it was called Moomba. It was. It was one of those places at that era in my life I would be at. And I think he talked about it on Howard Stern once, and they asked him about him, and he was like, yeah, he's with a girl. She was not bad. I got the approval from Donald Trump. She wasn't a seven, you know, but I've matured and he hasn't. That's the difference between how you get to be president and why you're sitting here in this lickable furniture room. Support for today's episode comes from One Skin, founded by a team of four female PhD level longevity scientists. Is your current skin regimen clinically proven to reverse the molecular age of your skin? I highly doubt it, which is another reason I am obsessed. Oneskin is for everyone that wants to prevent or reverse the signs of aging. With a groundbreaking approach, Oneskin addresses skin health at the molecular level, targeting the root cause of aging so skin behaves, feels and appears younger. Oneskin is redefining the aging process with the proprietary OS1 peptide, the first ingredient.

[Sam Harris]

Proven to help skin look, feel and.

[Bill Maher]

Behave like its younger self. Get 15% off with code randomoneskin co. That's 15% off oneskin co with Code Random after you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. So give Oneskin a try and see the difference. For a limited time, our fans can get 15% off one skin with our Code Random at Oneskin Co. It's time for you to experience a new skin health routine at a discounted rate today. Get 50% off. That's 15% off with the code randomoneskin co. That's 15% off. Oneskin co with code random we only have one body, one skin and only you. You can choose to make it better. Age healthy with one skin if you hadn't noticed already, I'm kind of busy. I have a TV show I travel for Stand up and I make this damn podcast. Then there's my needle point. Oh gosh. I don't have time for one more endlessly time consuming task like hiring. Which is why I love ZipRecruiter. If you're an employer, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But now there's hope. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, ZipRecruiter finds qualified candidates and fast. And today you can try it for [e-mail] random ZipRecruiter is the hiring site employees prefer the Most. Based on G2. How fast does ZipRecruiter's smart technology start showing your job to qualified candidates immediately. ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology works fast to find top talent so you don't waste time or money. Let ZipRecruiter find top talent for your roles in no time at all. See why four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And if you go to ZipRecruiter.com random right now, you can try it for free. Here's to a new year of hiring made easier with Zip Recruiter. Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. Ziprecruiter.com random Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com R n d o m ZipRecruiter the smartest way to Hire well, no, I.

[Sam Harris]

There's one thing I am skeptical about.

[Bill Maher]

Come on.

[Sam Harris]

I haven't said anything about this. I'll give it to you. I actually just, I mean this just could be based on a faulty intuition about ballistics, but I would be. I'm surprised that a rifle round making any degree of contact with an ear wouldn't do more damage. I think, I think a shattered piece of shrapnel from a teleprompter is far more likely to have done that to his ear than a rifle round.

[Bill Maher]

That's so silly.

[Sam Harris]

Well, have you seen what rifle rounds do to human bodies?

[Bill Maher]

I know, but like if it just hit it by the slightest possible degree, it just, you know, it makes much more sense. The guy behind.

[Sam Harris]

Well, no, but I, I do. No, there's no question there were rifle rounds flying. I mean, someone was killed. I'm not, I'm not debating that at all. But just to if in fact a teleprompter was hitting by the rifle round and we know there was shattered glass, that makes more sense to me.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, he didn't get hit at all. It was the teleprompter.

[Sam Harris]

He got hit by flying glass as opposed to a rifle round.

[Bill Maher]

But that doesn't change the basic narrative.

[Sam Harris]

No, no, no, zero change.

[Bill Maher]

No, I completely agree that it could be that McLovin just missed him completely. McLovin, that's what I called him. And shot the other guy and he got hit by the. But you know.

[Sam Harris]

Yes, no, no. That does not take anything away from him having a legit assassination attempt. I'm not disputing that.

[Bill Maher]

And by the way, thank God he did not. Just because even people we don't like, we should not wish their death. But it's a bad place for your mind to be, I think. But also because the country would just have gone nuts.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I mean we would be in the middle of a civil war now.

[Sam Harris]

Well, so I think we sort of nodded toward this truth. But I'll just make it explicit. I do think that one of the silver linings of him having won this election and having won it decisively is that it has discharged all of that pent up rage and conspiracy thinking. I mean like, so in Trumpistan, is it. Well, they've gotten everything right, so now they've got four years. Don't they just.

[Bill Maher]

They believe in elections again?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, yeah. So like our election system works, right? Apparently. And the elites couldn't keep the man down. But again, there's no conspiracy. The Jews didn't do the thing that.

[Bill Maher]

They were worried about, you know, again. And I don't think you're gonna Disagree with this. We didn't cure the cancer, we just pushed it further into tissue.

[Sam Harris]

Well, but I think it's different. But the counterfactual is scary. I mean, so a Harris administration with all of These right wing QAnon addled nutcases thinking that it was the fix was in and elections don't mean anything and all that's bad from my point of view. So the fact that half of the electorate is that crazy is. I do think they've been mollified and then now they get to see what it's like to govern with all of the tech bros they love and we'll see what happens.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I don't know what will happen with that. I do know what will happen with the next election, which is why as much as we're living in a wonderful time now where America's great again, whatever the next election is, if the Democrat wins it, they're just going to be ever more suspicious and it's just going to be we're putting off this day where something has to give with the people who don't believe in elections unless we win them. That's an intolerance.

[Sam Harris]

Why would you say that if this time we, the mustache twirling plutocrats, couldn't fix the election? You're thinking elections work.

[Bill Maher]

You're thinking so logically.

[Sam Harris]

Sam, he won everything. He ran the table.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, because there was no cheating. But if he had lost, there would have been cheating.

[Sam Harris]

You haven't backwards. Absolutely.

[Bill Maher]

But.

[Sam Harris]

No but now. But we've proven that you could have a fair election in the year 2024.

[Bill Maher]

You're living in the world where you're encountering people like you.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

And that's not the world we live in. Well, that's not the world.

[Sam Harris]

I'm a bad judge of character.

[Bill Maher]

You are. That is not going to happen. What's going to happen is the next time a Democrat wins, there's going to be.

[Sam Harris]

It was rigged.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, a fucking shitstorm. And I don't know how that ends. And it depends also on who is in positions of power that are being put there now. I mean I did an editorial once about power begets power. The more power you have, the more power you get.

[Sam Harris]

So now what do you actually. What are you worried about and what are you agnostic about and what are you hopeful about?

[Bill Maher]

I'm worried about that now that they have a lot of power controlling all the levers. They do what all countries do where the people who want to stay in power forever put the people in place who are just total loyalists. That's the courts.

[Sam Harris]

But are you worried that we're not going to have a valid 2028 election because he's going to run for a third term or something?

[Bill Maher]

I mean, he could and that would be awful. I don't know. It's a very sort of Prince Charles situation, you know, like where Don Jr. Is like, mom, would you, would you please die, Queen Elizabeth. So, I mean, how old was Prince Charles when he finally got it? And Don Jr. S going to be chomping at the bit, but we are heading toward that where like North Korea and the Assad regime and many other places in the world that they have elections, wink, wink. But really it's just the scion of the ruling family that takes over. And of course, their fans love this. So, you know, I think J.D. vance is just a placeholder for Don Jr. I think the fact that they look alike makes it easier. They just put Don Jr. In there and they tell them it's the same guy.

[Sam Harris]

So you think Trumpism continues without Trump?

[Bill Maher]

Absolutely, I think Trump.

[Sam Harris]

I have no intuitions about that very.

[Bill Maher]

Often with a person named Trump.

[Sam Harris]

Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I would. That feels like a coin.

[Bill Maher]

Barron, I could see doing this.

[Sam Harris]

He's eight feet tall. So.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, so was George Washington for his day, you know. Yes. But even without them, Trumpism to me is a response to something we both talk a lot about, which is the insanity of the left. As long as one half of the country feels that even if they don't like Trump so much, we just can't let these crazy people take over. The people who don't know what a woman is.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

You know, that kind of stuff. The people who think we are living in this racist, patriarchal nightmare of a country which we're not. We have issues, we have problems.

[Sam Harris]

Do you think the pendulum is swinging back on that now?

[Bill Maher]

You know, we've heard this for the last few years and there are bits of evidence that it is, but in.

[Sam Harris]

The aftermath of the loss, do you think this the.

[Bill Maher]

Well, here's. We've actually had a test case that can answer this question, although we don't have the full answer yet. But Seth Moulton, you're familiar.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Congressman. Okay. He said after the election something which you and I and any reasonable person in America would find not only benign but completely uncontroversial. He said, I don't want my, I.

[Sam Harris]

Think 12, my daughter being run over by a, by a man.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. I don't want my 12 year old daughter who played whether was it field hockey or soccer or some girls sport in school to be on the field with a biological male who could do a lot of damage. It's true. And immediately I think it was his press secretary or maybe campaign manager or maybe both resigned.

[Sam Harris]

Right? Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And that's where we are. That is the.

[Sam Harris]

But he's still okay, right? Like so he hasn't been canceled, right?

[Bill Maher]

No, but hey, I don't. Maybe I missed it because I'm on vacation, but I don't hear him saying, good, let the door hit you in the ass.

[Sam Harris]

You are what lost the necessary piece.

[Bill Maher]

This last election and I'm glad you're going and you're what's taking down this party and you're nuts. And I'm here to say Democrats are not nuts.

[Sam Harris]

Have you seen Richie Torres speak?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, I've had him on the show.

[Sam Harris]

Oh, okay, so I missed that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He seems great to me and he seems like he's kryptonite to the far left.

[Bill Maher]

I've seen him be great on some issues, Frankly. On the 1. On 1 we had him once and I liked him a lot. Then he was on this is on.

[Sam Harris]

Real time or on the. Yeah, real time.

[Bill Maher]

And then he was on the panel and I thought he was. He looked green, young, way too careful.

[Sam Harris]

I saw him.

[Bill Maher]

But you know, he's very young.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

But I like him. And you know, any Democrat who stands up for Israel, that takes guts.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

And he did it and does it and yeah. I think he's got a big future. I think he's really smart.

[Sam Harris]

I mean he's, he's black, Latino, gay and wants nothing to do with identity politics, which is.

[Bill Maher]

Well, it's easy to say when you're all that.

[Sam Harris]

That's right. Yeah. But I mean that's like, you know, that's like, you know, having the 20 sided dice, you know. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

It's like the rich guy who says money really doesn't matter. Yeah. Because you have it. Well, that's one of the Democrats biggest problems in electoral politics is that one side doesn't give a shit at all about diversity and one side is way too beholden to it and has to check boxes before they even think about who's going to be on the ticket. I mean I said this, I think it was Eric Holder, but I said can you even imagine a Democratic ticket without a person of color? He said no. Now maybe that's a good thing, but it is limiting. Yeah, it is very, very limiting. It means you are pulling from half the pool of talent and maybe not the pool.

[Sam Harris]

Well, not even half.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Sam Harris]

It depends what you mean by color in that case.

[Bill Maher]

But I see. Yeah.

[Sam Harris]

Talking about black, you know what, 14% of it.

[Bill Maher]

I see what you're saying. Yeah. But in politics, probably a little more is that number. But just in general, you're. You're limiting yourself and the other team just doesn't care. I mean, look at Trump. He just. Although he did a one. One of his people is gay. Who is it? These some important. Is it the Treasury Secretary? I think. Oh, it was a very un. Trump like pick. He wasn't necessarily a loyalist gay. And a former George Soros contributor.

[Sam Harris]

Right, right. That surprised.

[Bill Maher]

I think he's Treasury.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. Yeah. And. And I mean, I got to imagine there are conspiracy theorists getting a hold of that. I mean, because Soros is enemy number one over in.

[Bill Maher]

He is. You know, but I don't think in the Trump administration, I don't think enemy number one or enemy at all is gay.

[Sam Harris]

Not gay. But I don't think of the thesaurus.

[Bill Maher]

I don't think it's black. I just think they don't kowtow and maybe they should a little because we do need remedial steps still. We do have to take account of our horrible past. We just need to live in the year we're living in is what I always say, as opposed to pretending that we need to be doing what we were doing in 1960 or something. Now, Trump people, maybe they go a little too far. I mean, I don't think there's any. Maybe there's one person of color that he picked, but it's just not the way he thinks. And, you know, I don't know. One side is on too far one way, he's too far the other way. But generally merit does need to make a comeback. Not that the people he picked have anything to do with merit.

[Sam Harris]

It's really not. I mean, he's. To a degree that is fairly.

[Bill Maher]

Did I say bad example?

[Sam Harris]

Oh, God.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, Pete Hegsmith.

[Sam Harris]

Hegseth.

[Bill Maher]

Hegseth.

[Sam Harris]

Well, I mean, he. It's like, can we get more rapists in here? I mean, like, how is it that you.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, well, that's. That's a very strong word, you know.

[Sam Harris]

Well, we'll find out. We'll find out what the. This person. I don't think this person will come forward because I think it's given that the woman freedom to come forward.

[Bill Maher]

Would I be shocked. I would not. But I also think in these incidents since Bill Clinton has been credibly. Accused of doing the same thing as Trump has done. I mean, past just being handsy.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

That since the Democrats never really seem to care about that, you've already lost the high ground on this issue. You know, you apparently only care.

[Sam Harris]

There's a lesson in that. Don't lose the fucking high ground. I mean, like, actually have integrity. It just seems like where you start, the clock is a judgment call. But, okay, from this moment forward, whatever your part, like, if we're going to reboot the Democratic Party, let's practice sane politics. And sane politics is not reverse racism. Right. It's not just, you know, hating whitey all the time. Right. So that's the key. At a certain point, you have to stop apologizing for how fucked up the past was and just find the people who are capable of moving forward with real integrity.

[Bill Maher]

That's the key. I mean, race is the original sin of this country. And, you know, it's still with us in a big way. In every way.

[Sam Harris]

It's with us. But I think we can solve the problem without focusing on race. So, for instance, I think there really is. There are profound inequalities that are highly correlated with race in America, like wealth inequality, health outcomes.

[Bill Maher]

Mostly money.

[Sam Harris]

Mostly money. I mean, everything that comes with money. Right. Because of.

[Bill Maher]

For years they couldn't have any money. And we've had generations of wealth.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. So I think it is still true to say that it's something like an Eightfold difference in the average amount of familial wealth between white and black in America. Right. So that's crazy serious. Right. So if you were going to focus on class, if you're going to focus on wealth inequality and all of its entailments, you know, education, health, et cetera, then you would be disproportionately benefiting people of color without ever focusing on race as the. As the variable.

[Bill Maher]

Right. And there's some things that the people who just want to make headlines don't acknowledge about this argument. One is this cannot be an 8 to 1 disparity in wealth cannot be addressed in a short period of time.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

It's going to take a century.

[Sam Harris]

Well, you're not. Yeah. You're not going to cut a check.

[Bill Maher]

It's going to take a century. Some things just do. I'm sorry about the past. I personally didn't do it. And you're not going to get white people to. And it would bankrupt the economy if you actually gave what black people in general deserve. Yes. But again, the people.

[Sam Harris]

But also, it's unworkable in all kinds of other ways.

[Bill Maher]

And the people alive today aren't. The people very often get conflated.

[Sam Harris]

They're not the culpable people.

[Bill Maher]

The woke like to conflate the past with the present. The past was despicable and the present has parts of it that are still needing remedial work, but it's not despicable. We have racists in this country. I don't think we're a racist country in general. I said it in my last editorial that the Democrats appeal to the voters as if they don't actually live here, as if they don't actually go out in the day.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, you don't go to a CVS and have to get your shaving kit under lock and key. You know, a jailer comes by to.

[Bill Maher]

Get you some razor blood too. But I meant racially. They seem to think Americans live in this country where they go out in the day and they're seeing racism.

[Sam Harris]

Right. You know, like cross burnings in front of the Starbucks.

[Bill Maher]

Starbucks is saying, we don't serve your kind to people. You know, it's just like we have issues to work out, but basically we're a fairly successful multiracial society and the.

[Sam Harris]

Well, here's a provocative. I mean, maybe this won't be provocative to you, but in Wokistan, this is provocative. I think if we could just magically remove every racist from our society, virtually nothing would change of substance. It's like there'd still be the same number of murders in Chicago this weekend.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Sam Harris]

There'd still be the same wealth inequality. There'd still be educational disparities. We still have lots of problems to solve. And we would recognize that for virtually nothing was the problem that there was a racist standing in the way anchoring that problem.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. And of course, there are people listening to this now saying, how dare two white men talk about, even talk about.

[Sam Harris]

It, let alone to that I can say, go yourself.

[Bill Maher]

Me too. Because we're speaking the truth, you know, and of course, the people who know this better than anybody are black people, like I've heard who voted in record.

[Sam Harris]

Numbers for Trump because.

[Bill Maher]

Still not a lot.

[Sam Harris]

No, but just record.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah, but I mean, he got half of the male Latino vote. Yeah, but. But no, I mean, I've heard woke people say things like, you know, black people are hunted when they leave their house, that somebody has to stand up to that kind of thing. Like the implication being by racists as you're talking about, or the police. Cops, Racist cops. And it's True. There are some black people who are hunted when they leave their house. They're gang members hunted by other gang members who are being hunted by other gang members because they insulted their sneakers or something. You know, that's. Or they're on their drug territory. We could make so much progress in this racial area if we would just do three things. John McWhorter talks about them. End the drug war, better schools and teach. Actually teaching kids something. Especially in shitty schools where a lot of black kids go and more daddies.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Family.

[Sam Harris]

That's also completely incendiary. You know, Candace Owens level point.

[Bill Maher]

You know what, what is she just.

[Sam Harris]

Just, I mean, just, just putting the onus on single parent households. I mean, I think it's something like 70% of the births in the black community are to. To single moms. Right.

[Bill Maher]

And she's.

[Sam Harris]

She's just like, that's your fucking problem, fellas. Oh, I see. But that. Well, Candace is black obviously, so she's. She doesn't quite have the problems that you and I are now going to inherit as a result of this conversation. But it's obviously so. Right. It's just not.

[Bill Maher]

And it wasn't always so. It wasn't always so in the black community. So something did change. I think some people think that it was always thus or that maybe it's even gotten better. But no, that number was not nearly that high.

[Sam Harris]

Did get worse. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And then. So maybe we should just look at that. But I think that's kind of anathema to the left because it implicates like the Great Society.

[Sam Harris]

And my feeling now is that as a heuristic, I just think that any mention of race in virtually any context is almost always. These are all these modifiers counterproductive.

[Bill Maher]

And paradoxically they want to make everything about race.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

Everything's about race, but don't mention it.

[Sam Harris]

There's no one who cares as much about race as progressives in American society other than if you migrate. Right. To look for your colleague in this racial fixation. You have to go all the way to the Ku Klux Klan, all the way to white supremacists and neo Nazis. Those are the people who care about race as much as the woke progressives.

[Bill Maher]

It's a little like how much Republicans care about gay. You know, some of them think about gayness a lot. You almost have to be a gay man. Think about it as much. It's kind of the same.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. Although I think that's probably not so much the case. I think we've won. I Feel like we did win that battle, and that's not getting walked back.

[Bill Maher]

But.

[Sam Harris]

But who knows? I mean, there are theocrats who are still waiting to win that argument. Well, what's amazing is that for you and me, what is amazing is that we have not had the bandwidth to even think about Christian fundamentalism and theocracy in the last decade, given all of the political mishigos that Trump has brought in. I mean, like, he has empowered the theocrats, and there's been this kind of quiet.

[Bill Maher]

You know, QAnon is a. Oh, yeah.

[Sam Harris]

There's all kinds of quasi. The theocrats are getting what they want, but we're not talking about them or even thinking about them in most cases.

[Bill Maher]

But I worry that when he's gone, they're still there.

[Sam Harris]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And they, like, he gets a pass. He got a hall pass from the theocrats.

[Sam Harris]

I mean, not even remotely plausibly a Christian, and yet he's their instrument.

[Bill Maher]

Excuse me, Sam, have you read your Bible? He's a Cyrus figure.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, that's right.

[Bill Maher]

Do you know who Cyrus is?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. Who?

[Bill Maher]

Mr. Smarty Pants?

[Sam Harris]

Cyrus the Great.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Cyrus the Great. What did he do? He freed the Jews. He wasn't a good person himself, but he did a good thing.

[Sam Harris]

He was a vessel of God, Instrument of the Lord.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, he was an instrument of the Lord. Lord. So we. We don't care that he wasn't even a Jew.

[Sam Harris]

I think I told you. I asked Ralph Reed about this the first time around. Like, this is like 2016. That was at a conference. I ran into to Ralph on the show. People remember he's. He was a. In good standing among evangelicals, evangelical thought leader and thought leader. So, so, so this was at the moment where they had completely gone all in for Trump. And I said, ralph, you know, he had just stood up there and said, you know, Corinthians 2. And like, it was asked for his favorite book of the Bible. And he said, oh, I wouldn't want to say. I wouldn't want to offend anyone. Like, it was clearly, it was clear that he didn't know any of the books of the Bible. And so I asked Ralph, like, Ralph, you know, he just. He doesn't know anything about Christianity. He's not thought about this at all. He's not a Christian. He's like, how are you supporting him? And he just went immediately to, you know, I don't know what's in another man's heart, you know, and it's just. They rationalized it. You know, they knew they had Cut a deal with him.

[Bill Maher]

Sam, you're such a cynic. First of all, Trump was the 45th president of the United States. You know what passage? King Cyrus's Kings 45.

[Sam Harris]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Bill Maher]

You can't argue with science.

[Sam Harris]

Damn. Well, I stand corrected. It's all going according to plan.

[Bill Maher]

How much do you remember about the Babylonian Captivity?

[Sam Harris]

Personally?

[Bill Maher]

No, from history. What year?

[Sam Harris]

I'm going to put that at 600 B.C.

[Bill Maher]

586 B.C. pretty good.

[Sam Harris]

That was close.

[Bill Maher]

And the king was Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar, yeah. I'm gonna name my dog that.

[Sam Harris]

Was diaspora number one, and then we had diaspora number two. And about 600 years later.

[Bill Maher]

What do you think about all the Jew hunting that's going on in the world? I see in Amsterdam, they're now calling it Jew hunting, which has faint echoes of words. Is it not between the Jew hunting.

[Sam Harris]

Again, this is one of these situations analogous to what I just said about race. I do feel like we can get virtually everything we want. Not focusing on anti Semitism and focusing on a defense of Western values. It's like, so again, the analogy is so with race in America, I think if you focus on wealth inequality, I think you. That tide lifts all boats or the boats you want to lift. I think with antisemitism, I mean, this is. Perhaps there's some serious caveats here. Perhaps. But generally speaking, everything that's wrong with anti Semitism is a symptom of this larger problem where everyone left of center can't figure out how to defend Western values from.

[Bill Maher]

I couldn't agree more. Absolutely. It all springs from that, that somehow Western values themselves are tainted. Again. Because, you know, to me, the root of this is the kids don't know anything because they don't teach anything in school. So if you don't know anything, what's the one thing you can know? Black and white, literally black and white. That's as deep as they get. So in that world where there's black and white, white, bad, black, good, one's the oppressor, one's the oppressed, everything has to fit into that. And Israel, rich, white, even though, like.

[Sam Harris]

Half of them are not white, literally the only black people are Ethiopian Jews fighting for the idf. In that context, that's true.

[Bill Maher]

But I mean, Jews that are Sephardic are.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, no, I mean, they're indistinguishable from the Arabs.

[Bill Maher]

Right? Indistinguishable, yeah.

[Sam Harris]

And half the. I mean, the Mizrahi Jews have cut I mean, you're talking about Jews who are kicked out of all the neighboring countries, Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Morocco. I mean, like, you've got. That's probably half the population of Israel.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Sam Harris]

And no one's worried about their right of return.

[Bill Maher]

Again, my thesis, black and white, that's all you know, in that worldview where white bad, where they don't, like, sometimes teach. They don't teach a lot of stuff that they used to teach because it was written by white people. Even though maybe it would be worth reading Thomas Locke. Yeah, maybe he did write something. Or John Locke, whatever. John.

[Sam Harris]

John Locke. Yeah. Okay.

[Bill Maher]

Thomas Hobbes.

[Sam Harris]

Thomas Hobbes.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sure there are other people. Rousseau, you know. Yes. People who. Whose ideas became the Enlightenment ideas which are the actual ideas that make marginalized people's lives better, like equality and protection of minorities and democracy and scientific inquiry and individual liberty. You know, sorry, these. That white people thought of some of this stuff. But in that world where you don't even teach that, of course they're not going to defend Western values, because values is a concept. You have to think a little above the immediate black and white. So that's what we're dealing with, we're working on. Not what used to be considered such a lofty level, the level of concepts as opposed to just identity. Anyone can see the identity. But really that's why I don't think they value Western concepts anymore and Western values. And they don't defend them. They just defend the people who are oppressed. Even if the oppression is coming from those people who is more oppressive in this world. As long as we're going to get in trouble anyway.

[Sam Harris]

Theocrats and, well, Muslim men in general.

[Bill Maher]

Like in their personal lives with their relations with women, I mean.

[Sam Harris]

Well, that's the thing. That's so not all Muslim men.

[Bill Maher]

I'm not saying. And certainly not the ones in America. But that's why people come to America.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

No, but around the world, you know, theocrats.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Women are not considered equal.

[Sam Harris]

Well, I mean, the thing that's so crazy making about it is that it doesn't. It's not like it's logical within its context. And therefore it's easy to see how people are so confused. It's completely illogical even within its own context. Like if what you care about are the rights of women. Right. You want women to be treated as equals to men. Like that's your starting, like the women's march. Right. Let's get a million women to march on D.C. and you want equality, Right? Totally understandable. I'm with you, sisters. How is it that you imagine that having one of the three people who are anchoring this march, you have a veiled woman who's this theocratic bully and anti Semite and friend of Louis Farrakhan and you imagine that the veil is a symbol of female empowerment, Right?

[Bill Maher]

Yes. It should be worn with the Queers for Palestine T shirt. Just as a visual of like how ass backwards these people's thinking, how confused they are. But of course they're just going to hate us for saying that and not really see what we're saying.

[Sam Harris]

They more likely will not even hear us saying it. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Do you ever worry about that? That you're just preaching to the converted or do you feel like you are converting? I feel like I'm converting.

[Sam Harris]

I mean the ideas certainly spread. I mean, I think the time course of their spread is smeared out over time. I mean, you don't know when people are going to stumble upon the thing you said five years ago. But it does. I mean, if it felt pointless, I wouldn't do it. So it certainly doesn't feel pointless. I constantly meet the people who. Well, it's thinking.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, me too. It's valuable. And I also think that if I would analogize the media to politics, there's often a call for a third party.

[Sam Harris]

In politics which I have never felt anything but skepticism about. It just seems like, it just seems like too heavy a lift.

[Bill Maher]

But here's where I'm going with this. In politics, it doesn't really work, not in this country, the way it's set up. If we were a parliamentary democracy would be different.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

You could have multiple parties in this system. We have. One of them is always one. A third party, if it becomes successful, will then be co opted by one of the two parties. It always happens. Your ideas are popular, we'll just steal them and it just doesn't work. But media wise, yes, the two parties, the MSNBC's over here and the Fox News over there with all their other New York Times on that side and Sinclair or whatever on that side, they both have huge bastions and lots of people who just want to hear what they have to say because they just want their preconceived ideas confirmed. They want everything to be chewed for them and then spit back in their mouth in a way that they can just swallow. Okay, but there is like a third party in media and that's you and me and Barry Weiss and Andrew Sullivan and you know, I could name other.

[Sam Harris]

People, it's really just the four of us.

[Bill Maher]

No, it isn't. Don't say that. There's more, right?

[Sam Harris]

I hope. Yeah. Come on.

[Bill Maher]

Douglas Murray.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, Douglas. Well, I mean. Well, Douglas is. Douglas is fantastic on his issues, but he is. He's hated by everyone left of center.

[Bill Maher]

So are we.

[Sam Harris]

No, no. Well, not. Not as much. We're not hated as much as Douglas.

[Bill Maher]

Pointlessly.

[Sam Harris]

And that's the thing about Douglas is he has. He doesn't care. He's never cared. He has no reason to care because he's on the right either, do we? Well, no, but he's never. He never experienced this whiplash of like, wait a minute. These people who understand everything that I understand and also subscribe to the New York Times now hate me. He never had. He never had any of that.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, same. And Jordan Peterson, I would add to that list. I don't feel like he.

[Sam Harris]

Jordan's got user interface issues that, you know, his. I like Jordan a lot as a person. I mean, but Jordan is definitely out there in. Not quite Trumpistan, but he's definitely Trump adjacent and messaging into the. He's in conspiristan. He's talking to the. He's out there with Russell Brand and people who are talking to the contrarian audience all the time. And.

[Bill Maher]

Well, what's something he says that I would object to? No, I know I had him here for the book.

[Sam Harris]

It's been a while since I watched this stuff. But I mean. Well, first of all, he's. He's. He's genuinely. Well, he's. He's religious in a way that's hard to.

[Bill Maher]

No doubt we talked about the Bible for two hours because that's what his book is about.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

So we don't agree on that. And if he'd voted for Trump. We don't agree on that.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, I don't. Well, he's actually said some critical things about Trump, so he's not. As has Douglas. So they're not all in on that front. But. No, I mean, so what I've noticed with a lot of people, I would not put Douglas in this category, but I think I would put Jordan. There is. There's this phenomenon of audience capture, which, you know, it's a phrase. I don't know if it's in your brain, but it's a. Eric Weinstein came up with this phrase that now everyone uses because it's so useful, but it just names this phenomenon of people who, especially in alternative media, who detect a signal in their audience, like the person who Starts talking about, did Jeffrey Epstein really kill himself? And all of a sudden they've done 40 podcasts on that topic because that's what their audience wants. And they, they've monetized that idea. And, and you see it happen. You see that happen to people and.

[Bill Maher]

You see it also in broadcast. People like Nicole Wallace, who I like, but she was a pretty hard, right, Bush Republican. And then she went over to msnbc and you know, at first it's just like, well, we all hate Trump. There are good Republicans who hate Trump and we love them for it. Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney, okay, blah, blah, blah, Chris Christie, go down the list. But then it slowly becomes every issue and you're like, okay, you know, maybe it's a, maybe it's a, a sincere conversion, right? Or maybe it's like, I see who signs my paycheck every week and so.

[Sam Harris]

You know your opinion about guns and climate change. And I can all change all those dials.

[Bill Maher]

That's sudden. She's like, brown people, brown people. When did you, you ever care about brown people? I mean, I'm not picking on her. There are other examples of that where you just feel like, wow, you know, I get it. Whoever's signing your paycheck, we all got to eat. You know, man's got to make a living. But I don't know, I. Now I'm lucky. I've had a very generous employer for a long time, so. And you're lucky because, you know, you don't have sponsors. You talk about it all the time at the beginning of your show. I do this, I'm asking for money to do this because it gives me the freedom. And you're right, you are beholden to nobody, and that's a rare thing these days in broadcasting. Beholden to nobody.

[Sam Harris]

No, I mean, I felt it. I mean, this may sound like a invidious thing to say about. Did you see my debate with Ben Shapiro on. On. For Barry, for. On. On.

[Bill Maher]

Honestly, I did not.

[Sam Harris]

Okay, so we did. This is pre election.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, maybe I did. Maybe I read it. Was there a transcript?

[Sam Harris]

They might read it?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, I read it.

[Sam Harris]

So anyway, we did a debate, but I realized, and you know, I'm sure Ben would disagree with this, but he would, I think he would be wrong that there was a freedom I had in having this debate with him and I like Ben and that it was a totally open hearted debate. There was nothing wrong there. But I realized I was free. Like whenever he made a good point against Kamala Harris, I was free to agree with it.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Sam Harris]

It's like I got no. I mean, I know I'm beholden to no one, not even my audience on some level.

[Bill Maher]

Me neither.

[Sam Harris]

And it's just like he knows his audience is Trumpistan. He knows he can't actually say. He can't wake up tomorrow morning and realize, okay, all this stuff has gone too far. Trump is a fucking Nazi. And I don't agree. Like, I want no part of this. His business is predicated. Tomorrow's business is predicated on him not doing that. He can't have that epiphany. And I can. It's an amazing freedom.

[Bill Maher]

I'm even luckier because I can with an employer.

[Sam Harris]

Right. I mean, that's unusual.

[Bill Maher]

Very unusual. And if I don't say it enough, I appreciate it from hbo because they don't have to be that way. And I mean, it could end tomorrow. But I mean, they've never told me what to say, what to think, where to come down on an issue. That's rare.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So I'm extremely fortunate.

[Sam Harris]

But guys, when Elon buys them next week, then the regime might change.

[Bill Maher]

But I think Elon, and I get. You're the one who has serious beef with Elon.

[Sam Harris]

Don't inherit my problem with Elon.

[Bill Maher]

I'm not. I, I would. If I felt that way. I would because I always say what I think. I don't feel that way. I feel like he is a genius and he's done. We seem to, like, forget about this short list of amazing things he's done that make the world better. And I want to see. He hasn't been there. I don't think he's in it for the money.

[Sam Harris]

I would agree.

[Bill Maher]

Right. I think he's sincere. He likes to fix things. And okay, how do we have an electric car? I'm going to fix that. And then how do we get to Mars? I'm going to fix that. And how do we have the Internet everywhere? I'm going to fix, fix that. And how do we get people who are paralyzed to pick up a pen from across the room? I'm going to fix that. And oh yeah, Twitter. I'm going to fix that. That's fucked up. What else is fucked up, Honey, bring in those short list of fucked up things. Yeah, US Government, super fucked up. I'm going to fix that. I think that's what gets his juices flowing, you know?

[Sam Harris]

But the caveat to that is he's actually behaving in a way that is reckless and unethical and fucking identifiable people over Massively. And he doesn't care. Right. He's a very Trumpian character.

[Bill Maher]

Give me specifics on that.

[Sam Harris]

Well, I mean, he'll tweet. He'll put an identifiable civilian on blast in front of 200 million people, knowing that that's going to completely fuck over their lives.

[Bill Maher]

Like.

[Sam Harris]

Like Yoel Roth, the head of trust and safety for Twitter, who he called a pedophile based on no fucking evidence. And the guy had to, like, flee his house because he was getting so many death threats from kids. So he's so. I mean, but he'll do that, and he'll do that again and again, and he knows the consequences. He's not dumb. He knows what you're talking to. 200 million people, 1% of whom are crazy. Right. And he insists on playing this game. He doesn't have to do it. He's addicted to Twitter, and it's deranging his personality and it's undermining his ethics. And he will, even over a former friend who was just trying to be a friend, helping him when he was starting to use these tools.

[Bill Maher]

Is he trying to attack you?

[Sam Harris]

Oh, yeah. I speak as one who knows. Oh, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

On that level, yeah.

[Sam Harris]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Like, by siccing who on you?

[Sam Harris]

Well, no, just attacking me on Twitter. I mean, it's not. Compared to what happened to Yoel Roth, it's not bad. But he will. He will. A Pizzagate lunatic. Like, literally one of the people who gave us Pizzagate. You know, I'm not gonna name them because they would be happy to be named in this context, but it's a couple of guys who gave us Pizzagate. You remember what Pizzagate was?

[Bill Maher]

The dealer truck that Hillary Clinton was running a pedophile ring out of a pizza parlor.

[Sam Harris]

Out of the basement of a pizza parlor that doesn't have a basement.

[Bill Maher]

In their defense, the pizza was fantastic.

[Sam Harris]

So the people who gave us that are people who are in very good standing with Elon, who. Elon will talk to them in Twitter spaces and, like, you know, give them the mic and boost them and just high five them, like. And he knows, like, I've pointed out how crazy these people are to him. These people will send him a clip from my podcast or some other podcast. Maybe this podcast, maybe they'll do it here. Right. Making it seem like I've said the opposite of what I said in context. They sent him one where I seem to be saying that I didn't care about the chaos at the border, whereas I have exactly Elon's view of the border and in context, you could hear that, but they'll send the opposite. And Elon will react to that. He doesn't have time to listen to the podcast, obviously, so he'll just react to the clip saying, sam Harris is a total moron. Right. Like it was something like that. But amplify this to millions of people and I will email him and say, elon, you are being gamed by right wing trolls who gave us Pizzagate. This is not what I said in context. Right. And he will tell me to go fuck myself. And he knows. He knows.

[Bill Maher]

But he read the email.

[Sam Harris]

Oh, yeah, he will respond to the email. Go fuck yourself. He does not care if he's defaming someone in public who used to be a friend. So, I mean, it was. And this is why we're no longer friends. So, I mean, he's. Listen, the guy is snorting ketamine and on Twitter all day long.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, there is no defending person, no defending that. And I wouldn't try, but, you know.

[Sam Harris]

And that's not to dispute anything you said about it. I mean, he's the greatest entrepreneur of his generation. I think that's not disputable. But there's no reason to. Not to ignore the downside of his personality and the way he's treating people.

[Bill Maher]

But also to take advantage of the upside. I guess, you know, that's the complication of human life. I mean, do we listen to R. Kelly and Michael Jackson? I say yes, even though we know that they did things in their private life that are very not admirable. So, yeah, well, is that not a convincing analogy, the R. Kelly.

[Sam Harris]

I'm not sure it's as exculpatory as Elon fans would. Would want, but yes, I guess what.

[Bill Maher]

I'm saying is sometimes you're peeing on a teenage girl and sometimes you're figuring.

[Sam Harris]

Out sometimes it's a rocket.

[Bill Maher]

How to get satellites to space and recatch a rocket. I loved it when Trump went, did the Chinese do it? When the rocket came down, they hugged it like a baby. Can the Russians do it? It's like, you know what? I'm not really against that. America's pretty great in a lot of ways. Talk. You know, we've had so many years of shitting on this country. And this is part of the problem with not getting behind Western values is that America is this, you know, irredeemably racist, horrible place. And we're obsessed with what happened 400 years ago. And, you know, it's. If you read the paper every day and you see what's going on in the rest of the world, man. I just saw this movie. It's fantastic. It should get an Oscar nomination, but it won't because they don't have the money to promote it. But it's about how in the early 90s, kids in Cuba were purposely giving themselves AIDS because it was the one place in Cuba you could go because they were very afraid of AIDS breaking out. And it was like, you got good food, they had ice cream. Wait, what do you mean?

[Sam Harris]

So what was the one place? Like, the hospital was one place you could go to.

[Bill Maher]

It was like a sanitarium, but it was outside. So. Life was so unremittingly awful in Cuba.

[Sam Harris]

Tell Michael Moore in one of his documentaries, didn't he basically just show us how good life was in Cuba? The medical care was so great.

[Bill Maher]

This is part and parcel of that. It's that, like, because they were a socialist heaven, they took, yes, healthcare very seriously. The people were miserable and emaciated, but their health was quite good because, you know, juicy obesity, intermittent fasting problem.

[Sam Harris]

No.

[Bill Maher]

I remember when Katrina happened and they were very late in getting the aid there. Do you remember when Fidel Castro had that press conference with a bunch of doctors? He was flanked by like eight guys in white suits.

[Sam Harris]

We'll help you.

[Bill Maher]

And he was like, some president in this hemisphere must do something about this situation. I'm going to step in, Fidel. But the idea that it would be preferable to give yourself AIDS to get to a place where you could live freely, they weren't. The police didn't come because they were afraid of them, because they had aids. So. And they wanted them to be happy.

[Sam Harris]

And I hadn't heard that story.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, yeah, I hadn't heard it either. It's just. It's just this. So I'll send you the movie. It's fantastic. But I mean, the. Or just read about what went on in Syria the last 10, 15 years.

[Sam Harris]

That is an unfolding story that is, I mean, quite astonishing.

[Bill Maher]

We're so fortunate, you know.

[Sam Harris]

Well, this is so ringing the bell of our. Of how fortunate we are. I think the other people have noticed this, but we've got this 250th anniversary of the country coming up in. In 2026. One landmark I want to put on the calendar is that the Democrats have to get their shit together by July 4, 2026, to not just be whingeing about Trump. It can't be a MAGA birthday party. It's gotta be.

[Bill Maher]

You're so Right.

[Sam Harris]

The Democrats have to find their patriotism gear by 2026.

[Bill Maher]

It's gonna be tough since the other party's in power.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, no, but like, we have to figure out how to be the attractive party with people you want to listen to talking about how good this country is and the.

[Bill Maher]

We love the country. We're asking to rule that little thing. We like the place where I did it.

[Sam Harris]

As opposed to you're all racist assholes now vote for us.

[Bill Maher]

I shot a video once that somebody had sent me, did a whole editorial on it. This woman who was actually running for office or had run for office, and she was asking people, I guess on TikTok, where you do everything nowadays, if they knew a place they could go in the world because they had to get out of this place. You know, these people who think, I guess because they don't read or watch anything, that there's some. First of all, they don't want you. Where are you going to go? Canada doesn't want you unless you can do something for them. They have stricter immigration laws than we do. Where are you going? Finland or Denmark or Sweden or whatever you think is the paradise that isn't here. The grass that's so green.

[Sam Harris]

What language are you going to learn? American.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, there are plenty of places in the world that are, I'm sure, very pleasant to live, but they're not home. And you won't feel like you're home.

[Sam Harris]

Except you do have the odd billionaire who's preparing the compound in New Zealand and trying to figure out how to hire bodyguards who will not, not, you know, kill him and take his, His. All of his wealth in the. In the aftermath of the apocalypse.

[Bill Maher]

Right?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah, that's.

[Bill Maher]

That's the bodyguard you always have to watch out for.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. I mean, how do you incentivize the bodyguard, you know, post apocalypse so well, trust protect you. I mean, money is worthless.

[Bill Maher]

Indira Gandhi killed by the bodyguards.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Anwar Sadat.

[Sam Harris]

Was that the bodyguards? I said odd. I don't remember totally. Huh.

[Bill Maher]

Well, it was. It was inside the. I mean, he was at a parade.

[Sam Harris]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

Which did not go well.

[Sam Harris]

No. Yes. First of all, two of the floats didn't.

[Bill Maher]

And then. Yes, he was in the reviewing stand in his own military. Turned on him. And I thought it was.

[Sam Harris]

Huh. I forgot the details there. I thought it was just jihadists who had infiltrated.

[Bill Maher]

But no, it was. It was the people in uniform. They were in his guard. I mean, it was.

[Sam Harris]

No, but there's other versions in Pakistan. This has happened.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, it's yeah, it's.

[Sam Harris]

It's ideas spread, you know, you can't keep the ideas out. Right. So it's like as long you convince the, you know, the bodyguard of something, and all of a sudden you've hired your own assassin.

[Bill Maher]

Well, on that happy note, happily, we have no bodyguards.

[Sam Harris]

We don't need bodyguards here.

[Bill Maher]

So everything good in your personal life? You, Sam Harris, we're all on subjects that are important, but I care about you.

[Sam Harris]

Ironically or happily, this is just a great time of life. I mean, the things I'm worried about in the world. But I feel immensely fortunate.

[Bill Maher]

It is a weird cognitive dissonance, is it not? That, like, you can be so worried and the world can seem to be falling apart, but then you look around and you go, yeah, but our life is pretty good. And I understand that half the country, as you point out, are going to get pitchforks because. And they are, and we should do something about that. But I don't know what. But for a lot of people, when you just drive around, you know, people are just living their best life.

[Sam Harris]

And, you know, well, the difference between online and in the real world is so enormous. Again, it's not true. It used to be that people could just say, twitter's not real life. But obviously revolutions can start on Twitter. Things that happen online are real in some important sense. But it's just also true that in real life, people are very different than they are online. And online, you reliably just see the worst face of normal people, and it's pretty ugly. In real life, people are better. And so it's like, it's good to recalibrate and recognize just what people are.

[Bill Maher]

Like face to face and more connected. I read in the paper the other day, I think this comes from a Pew survey, that it's almost two to one the number of young men versus young women under 30 who are in a relationship, like 64. Completely single. Like 64% of males under 30, completely single. Only 34 of women.

[Sam Harris]

Right. So all these women under 30 are hooking up with older guys. That's what's happening.

[Bill Maher]

I hope so.

[Sam Harris]

Yes. That's what the math suggests. Yeah. Or the. Or they're gay.

[Bill Maher]

Well, but, I mean, this was an article about you onlyfans, which. The level of patheticness. I can't even fathom that you are so lonely. And I'm not saying this in any snarky way. I'm really sincerely feeling for these people because I remember when I was that lonely, like in college. But to be so lonely and desperate that you would have this fake girlfriend who you must know is fake, and you're paying her by the minute to text or talk to you. And you think this is some kind of a relationship or this is as like, there's not a better solution than this. And yet this is millions of people. And I think they quoted one onlyfans model who was quite popular, and she said, yeah, when I am recognized on the street, it's usually by somebody like younger, chubby. That was her words, you know. And yeah, it looks like everyone's getting laid in this country, in the media, but like, this is not gonna end well. This young generation that grew up on the phone and therefore does not know how to talk to a girl. Cause girls have not changed that much. I know some people think they can rewrite anatomy and history and just reality, but they're basically probably the same as they were when we were kids. They're communicative creatures who need to be talked to and wooed and like these incels who can't get laid and they blame the women and they wonder why. And it's because you can't even go up to a girl and just talk to her. And I feel like this is going to be an army of frustrated, angry.

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. The technology has not helped in so many ways. I mean, so just remote work is as good as it has been for so many. I mean, like, for my business is fantastic. I've got a team of. I don't know now. Now it's like maybe 15 people. But like everyone's remote and it's great. But. But young people need to go into the office to meet people. I mean, like, it's to be. To be siloed, you know, in a different state from everyone you work with for your entire career. It's like how that's good.

[Bill Maher]

They go out to a bar and then they're on their phone in the bar, right?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah. The virtualization of everything again, it's like if you're at the right point on the wave and you've got your friends, if you've got all your friends from high school, and in my case, if you're happily married and you've got a great life, well, then the virtualization of everything is just perfect. But if you're trying to start your life and you're isolated and you don't know how to meet people and everything is a fucking video on your phone.

[Bill Maher]

I feel like that the singularity that Ray Kurzweil talks about when we meld with the Computer. I feel like it's already here. Did you watch the Taylor Swift eras movie? I know you saw a piece.

[Sam Harris]

I went to the concert with my daughters, which was fucking awesome. Yeah, that was really.

[Bill Maher]

It was awesome.

[Sam Harris]

Well, I mean just to take your. You gotta put on some parent goggles here. You take your two daughters who are into Taylor Swift right to a. To the temple of Taylor Swift with 75000 other girls. Like, I mean. I mean the ratio of guys to girls. There was crime. It was just right. It was like you could get. You just. It was a vision of like what the. What the girls are doing. It was amazing. It was so fun. Yeah. And it was. It was.

[Bill Maher]

But the music.

[Sam Harris]

Listen, I'm. I can. I can put up with anything for two hours.

[Bill Maher]

Don't put that on the poster. I can put up with English two hours raves.

[Sam Harris]

It's not my favorite music, but I. It took us an hour to park and in the hour it took to park, I went to school on her whole catalog with my daughter's program in Spotify. And then we went in and honestly it was a fantastic experience.

[Bill Maher]

Well, my point was I watched the thing because Nikki Glaser made me.

[Sam Harris]

Nikki's great, by the way.

[Bill Maher]

I love Nikki. And everyone is watching the whole thing through their phones. I mean when you see the shots of the crowd, it's only after the recording it's no faces. And it's like, wow. Not only is that completely stupid because they're making a movie of this anyway. So you don't.

[Sam Harris]

And they never go back and watch it on.

[Bill Maher]

You'll never go back and watch it. Also everyone else is doing it and it's like they really want to experience this secondhand through the phone. That is a fundamental difference. It seems to me you're the way.

[Sam Harris]

More disturbing case for me is all of these moments of. Of public violence where everyone's rather than. The impulse is to actually solve the problem and actually help somebody. No, what you want to do is take out your phone and record this innocent person being beaten within an inch of their life by some lunatic. You're so right.

[Bill Maher]

It happened just recently in Beverly Hills in broad daylight. They gang just attack some old guy and trying to rip the shopping bags out of his hand. And he wouldn't let go. And so they beat him to the ground. And yeah, everyone is just either honking their horn in the cars that go by like that's going to stop anyway or filming it.

[Sam Harris]

Let's record this.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I mean.

[Sam Harris]

I mean in to Be totally charitable. You can imagine someone who feels otherwise totally powerless to intervene, thinks they might be doing something good by just documenting the crime. And like, this is like, I'm going to help catch these guys. But there's so many cases where it's just so obvious that these are people who could help and they're just not doing it because they have virtualized everything and like everything is a reality TV show. And now they're a part of the crew. It's. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

All right, I see that your mood ring is telling you that you're getting annoyed with. Is that when it turns black? What is it? What does that mean?

[Sam Harris]

Oh, this is the, this is the aura ring that tracks your sleep. And all it does is tell me that my sleep was shitty. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Really?

[Sam Harris]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You wear that and you think, I do.

[Sam Harris]

I do. Well, it's, it's. I occasionally look at the data and I respond to it. Yes, I, I, I will. If, if I see that my.

[Bill Maher]

You've seen on that little thing, it.

[Sam Harris]

What was that?

[Bill Maher]

Can you see it on that little thing?

[Sam Harris]

No, this reports to the phone.

[Bill Maher]

All right. Thank you.

[Sam Harris]

Yes, I appreciate it. Always great to talk to you. So much fun.

[Bill Maher]

All right, we'll take a. Yeah.

[Sam Harris]

What are these? Oh, these are great.

[Bill Maher]

Look at those. Oh, those are hilarious. Yeah, right? Criminals.

[Sam Harris]

Fine.

[Bill Maher]

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[Sam Harris]

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[Bill Maher]

Bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your steps. You know, all the mundane stuff.

[Sam Harris]

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[Bill Maher]

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[Sam Harris]

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