Sheryl Crow | Club Random Classics with Bill Maher

Summary

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Club Random with Bill Maher: Sheryl Crow | Club Random Classics

Release Date: June 18, 2026
Host: Bill Maher
Guest: Sheryl Crow
(Note: Timestamps are in [MM:SS] format)

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Episode Overview

In this Club Random Classics episode, Bill Maher sits down with iconic musician Sheryl Crow for an unfiltered, freewheeling conversation. Avoiding politics (mostly), they delve into music industry shifts, celebrity, motherhood, survival, and the power of just letting things go. Sheryl's wit pairs with Bill's signature blend of dry humor and irreverence, as they share stories about fame, resilience, friendships across divides, and changing times—illustrating how to keep your head (and heart) in an industry that often does the opposite.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Legacy, Aging, and Remaining Relevant

• Documentary Reflections: Bill praises Sheryl's documentary for its raw honesty and emotional ending at Bonnaroo, reflecting on the fear of being a "legacy act" and then seeing massive crowds still show up.
  • Sheryl (on feeling outdated): "You do get to the point where you feel like, God, I'm aging out of this business, you know." [04:55]
• Changing Industry: Sheryl notes that fame, for younger artists like Olivia Rodrigo, Taylor Swift, and Billie Eilish, is a completely different, always-on experience due to social media.
  • "There's no way I would not be able to deal with it well." [06:39]
• Bill on generational change: "Everyone is sort of famous now." [07:01]

2. The Evolution (and Devaluation) of Music

• Music Economics: Bill and Sheryl lament the minuscule payouts for massive hits on streaming platforms.
  • Bill: "Pharrell... had the biggest song of the year, and he made like $12,000." [08:25]
  • Sheryl: "You cannot make money." [07:54]
• Personal Music Consumption: Bill still uses an iPod, curating his own playlists and buying albums to support artists—which he views as voting for artists.
  • Sheryl: "As Emmylou Harris says, that's your way of voting." [15:19]
• Sheryl on physical retail: Nostalgic for the days of Tower Records and intimate record release events. [08:59–09:44]

3. Navigating Technology, AI & Artistic Integrity

• AI Concerns: Sheryl expresses deep concern about AI manipulating artists' voices and likenesses, referencing a demo with "John Mayer's" AI-generated vocals and the recent Beatles and Billy Joel AI releases.
  • Sheryl: "There's no way I would not know this was him—for $5." [66:12]
  • "What is not normal... is that the thing that creates art is... the human experience." [67:33]
  • Bill skeptical of the industry's willingness to safeguard artists: "First the technology comes along... We're gonna steal it now. And everyone just says, 'Well, you can't do anything about it now.'" [65:11]

4. Motherhood, Kids, and Tech Literacy

• Sheryl jokes about "having five wives and a husband" to help her manage life, career, and her sons, relying on close assistants and friends.
  • Bill: "I've had no wives—and the reason why I haven't needed any is because I have five different... My assistant..." [11:41]
• On kids' tech skills and Sheryl's disinterest in social media:
  • "I don't know how to work anything, and I don't really want to know... I like to read books. I like to listen to books." [11:04–11:41]

5. Friendships Across Political Divides

• With Kid Rock: Sheryl recounts her enduring friendship and challenging conversations about the Nashville shooting and political differences.
  • "We're a great illustration of two people who are very... on very different sides politically... People can sit and talk about hard stuff." [28:45–29:30]
  • After Kid Rock's Bud Light controversy, Sheryl called to ask why, reinforcing the value of real dialogue: "Anything ever happens, I'm there for your kids. And he came over, and you know what? Before he left, we hugged and told each other we loved each other." [33:00]
• On division:
  • Bill: "The kind of people who, like, if you were someone who after doing picture with Kid Rock, wouldn't talk to him because he voted for Trump, I'd hate you. That's the kind of person I fucking hate." [30:12]

6. Culture, Cancel Culture, and Social Extremes

• Lamenting intolerance and snap judgments, from "woke" discourse to Chick-fil-A bans at corporate events.
  • Bill: "We can't eat Chick-fil-A? You know what, I will eat Chick-fil-A and Bud Light. I'll put them together in a beer can chicken if I fucking want. That kind of attitude is just so obnoxious." [73:44]
  • Sheryl: "If you get me started, my publicist will run in here in a minute..." [73:44]
  • Both agree “extremism” is America’s #1 problem. [73:56–74:07]

7. Songs, Covers, and Creative Process

• Bill shows deep knowledge of Sheryl’s catalog, citing obscure favorites.
  • Sheryl: "My favorite record... was a record called Be Myself." [16:17]
• On songwriting: Sheryl now writes as her kids leave for school—“Cup of tea, notepad, guitar...” [59:37–60:17]
• Cover Song Talk: Deep dives into covers, from George Harrison’s “Beware of Darkness” to The Carpenters and Burt Bacharach classics.
  • On Burt Bacharach: "He was playing the piano—he stopped and he's like, you don't want to back phrase. Let's just sing the melody as it is." [89:53]

8. Psychedelics, Fungus, and Health

• Guided Mushroom Therapy: Sheryl shares her guided psilocybin experience at Johns Hopkins, sparking discussion on mushrooms’ therapeutic promise and dangers of fungi.
  • Bill: "Fungus is unrelenting. I'm a hawk on fungus." [53:51]
  • Both discuss evolutionary insights about fungus, health, and even their effect on mood and the environment. [50:25–55:56]

9. Personal Histories, Regrets, and Memory

• On Not Journaling:
  • Sheryl: "There's one thing I wish I would have done was to write one sentence at least every day." [83:24]
• Dementia in Family: Sheryl movingly recounts her mother’s dementia and the power of music to momentarily restore identity.
  • Sheryl: "She grabs the piano and she stands up and starts really singing. And I'm just like, oh, there she is. That's my mom." [87:54]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | 04:55 | "You do get to the point where you feel like, God, I'm aging out of this business." | Sheryl Crow | | 07:54 | "You cannot make money." | Sheryl Crow | | 08:25 | "Pharrell... had the biggest song of the year, and he made like $12,000." | Bill Maher | | 11:41 | "I've had no wives—and the reason why I haven't needed any is because I have five..." | Bill Maher | | 28:45 | "...we're a great illustration of two people who are very... on very different sides." | Sheryl Crow | | 33:00 | "Before [Kid Rock] left, we hugged and told each other we loved each other." | Sheryl Crow | | 30:12 | "...if you were someone who after doing picture with Kid Rock, wouldn't talk to him... | Bill Maher | | 67:33 | "...the thing that creates art is... the human experience. It's not a computer's..." | Sheryl Crow | | 73:44 | "We can't eat Chick-fil-A?... That kind of attitude is just so obnoxious." | Bill Maher | | 83:24 | "There's one thing I wish I would have done was to write one sentence at least each day."| Sheryl Crow | | 87:54 | "...she grabs the piano and she stands up and starts really singing. And I'm just like, oh, there she is. That's my mom." | Sheryl Crow | | 53:51 | "Fungus is unrelenting. I'm a hawk on fungus." | Bill Maher |

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:18–07:51] — Documentary, fame, aging, and being a "legacy act"
• [07:51–15:54] — Recording industry, streaming, Bill’s music-buying habits
• [28:44–33:15] — Friendship with Kid Rock & navigating cultural divides
• [33:56–35:14] — Social media, public anger, “performative” outrage and hate
• [49:09–55:56] — Fungi, psychedelic medicine, and health
• [65:11–68:17] — AI, ChatGPT, and threats to artistic authenticity
• [73:44–74:07] — Cancel culture, “Chick-fil-A,” and extremism in America
• [83:24–84:29] — Regrets about not journaling; memory, perception over time
• [87:54–88:20] — Sheryl’s mother and the healing power of music
• [89:53–90:13] — Story about working with Burt Bacharach on stage

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Overall Tone & Atmosphere

• Conversational, irreverent, and open. Both Bill and Sheryl take pride in being honest, self-deprecating, and willing to traverse taboo topics with humor and empathy.
• Playful banter: A recurring motif is Bill's deep-cut references to Sheryl's music, and the genuine mutual admiration.
• Heartfelt and nostalgic: Particularly in their reflections on aging, memory, and music’s connection to identity.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, sprawling conversation between two icons who’ve survived—and thrived—in tough industries. Against a backdrop of cultural change and technological anxiety, both Bill and Sheryl model how to hold onto authenticity, build bridges across divides, and maintain a sense of humor. For fans of Crow, Maher, or thoughtful culture chat, it’s a reminder that curiosity, tolerance, and a killer playlist can get you through a lot.

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Transcript

[A]

The 2026 Chevy Equinox is more than an SUV. It's your Sunday tailgate and your parking lot snack bar. Your lucky jersey, your chairs and your big cooler fit perfectly in your even bigger cargo space. And when it's go time, your 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen's got the playbook, the playlist and the tech to stay a step ahead. It's more than an SUV. It's your Equinox Chevrolet. Together, let's drive the 2026 FIFA World cup meal at McDonald's is underway with one of nine legendary cups in the lineup. Christian Pulisic, David Beckham, Lamine Yamal, Ronald Dinho, Thierry Henry, Son Heung Min, Alphonso Davies, Santi Jimenez. And between the posts, it's Grimace. Get one of nine collectible cups with a FIFA World cup meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026 this episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi view, choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA World cup streaming live on Fox One. Offers are subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. I don't know about you, but I'm a big fan of Green in all its forms. I get it. And for fellow lovers of, well, green, the Club Random merch store has you covered. Grinders, papers and Zippo lighters, all designed to support your relationship with Green. Wink, wink. Whatever and whatever philosophy comes with that for you. Head to clubrandom.com and bring home some random. Well, this week on Club Random Classics. Sheryl Crow Wow. 30 years in the music business usually leaves people either crazy, bitter, or both. No, Cheryl somehow avoided all of that. We talk about music and fame and relationships and kids and cancer and getting older and how to survive in an industry designed to drive people nuts. She's amazing. I love her. Smart, funny, honest. Everything you'd want. And exactly why this was such a good episode and a conversation. And if you haven't already subscribed, subscribe to Club Random. Wherever you get your podcast, do so and watch full episodes on YouTube. New episodes every Monday with Club Random Classics every third Thursday.

[B]

Club Random so nice. I'm not. I didn't expect to see you.

[A]

Well, it's not a suit I know, but, you know, but I did that for you.

[B]

I'm very impressed. I wear my rock tee for you.

[A]

Also, full disclosure, because it's kind of cold in here, so, like, oh, I can. But no. Are you kidding? You know, the coolest booking we ever had. Don't ever say that to the other guests. Although you know what? Every other guest I've ever had, and we've had some of the coolest people ever. Here's cool people in here, they would still agree with that. No one would say, no. That's not the coolest booking. Really?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Well, I'm such a fan.

[B]

I'm really here that you are getting ready to have Kid Rock at the Ryman.

[A]

And you see that I compare my dog to Kid Rock because he barks at nothing. So, my friend.

[B]

Look at that.

[A]

My genius.

[B]

That is hilarious.

[A]

My dog has one eye. That is my dog with the kid.

[B]

Isn't that your dogs? Are these their beds over here?

[A]

No. That's because this is a hippie enclave.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you remember this show, Politically Incorrect?

[B]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, of course. So, like, I was thinking, because I watched your documentary, you didn't want to kill yourself afterwards.

[B]

Why?

[A]

No, it brought me to tears. The ending. I thought when it was like 20 minutes to the end, then we meet your kids. I'm not a kid person. So I was like, oh, you're like, wah, wah. Yeah, but it was great. I love the kids, but it was okay. You did it well and then moved on. And the ending at. Was it Bonaro? Bonannaro. What is it?

[B]

Oh, Bonnaroo.

[A]

Bonnaroo, Yes. I mean, what a great ending for a documentary. Which is. I did one. You know, you're always looking for an end that, you know, you think you get out there, there's nobody there. A half hour before the show, and you're like, oh, I'm a legacy act now, you know, and the kids are over me. And then it's this in a half hour, the sea of people. And you said you were looking at your band like, can you guys believe?

[B]

I know. Literally, it's like they let us out of the old folks home and look, they've let all the kids come out into the parking lot.

[A]

Yeah, but, you know, you. I can't believe you ever thought you were ever out of style.

[B]

It's weird. I mean, you know, you've been around for a long time. I don't know if you feel this way, but now listen, and I've said this a thousand times my 13 year old when he was nine, he's like, mom, you know, you were born in the 1870s. You do get to the point where you feel like, God, I'm aging out of this business, you know.

[A]

Well, you certainly.

[B]

I did wear my leather pants specifically for Club Random.

[A]

Just saying, you look great. You look. You always did, you know, you're a rock chick, so, you know, I mean, you were born to be one.

[B]

Oh, my God. Thank you.

[A]

Really, don't you think? I mean, not just the great music, but also you had the look and you also had the. What it takes to like, you know, I'm sure I saw in the documentary the Harassment, which is not surprising. Like, I've had girlfriends in this business.

[B]

I.

[A]

One of them said to me, and she's quite successful, she said, I've never met a man in this industry who didn't try to have sex with me.

[B]

Well, yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. I don't know. Do you want names or do you.

[A]

No, no. But doesn't that just sum it up?

[B]

It is. It is a. It's a good given. I mean, it's a weird business. You know, I was not, I will say. And I was older when I made it, like, really made it. I had already been a schoolteacher. I had had lots of jobs. Had I been young, like they are now. There's no way.

[A]

If.

[B]

What if I'd been young, like these kids are now that are coming up and becoming huge. Like Olivia Rodrigo, who's like 20 or 19, and Taylor, who made it when she was.

[A]

And Billie Eilish.

[B]

Billie Eilish Lords. There's no way I would not be able to deal with it well.

[A]

And you see that they sometimes fumble their way through it. I mean, they actually do better than you might expect. Except that those kids, that generation, they're so used to. I mean, everyone is sort of famous now. They're so used to, you know, I mean, if anybody was ever prescient, it was Andy Warhol with Everyone's gonna be famous for 15 minutes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't think it's that big dive and splash into the pool that it would be for people in our generation because they kind of like, we're always like social media and it just got bigger.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And also, you as the artist, manipulate it. Like you. You create your brand, you advertise yourself, you sell yourself, and then the music is just a byproduct of that and you're selling yourself so that you can sell tickets and get advertisers and just. That was not. That was never part of the way I came up. You know, there just was none of that. In fact, until bob dylan did the victoria's secret ad, nobody did advertisements or took money for anything except for playing music and selling records. So it's a different thing.

[A]

But the main difference is that you can't make money.

[B]

You cannot make money.

[A]

How insane is that?

[B]

It makes me sad.

[A]

A very serious relationship with someone who I say was quite success, is quite successful, but the money I remember I had, I think it was kind of at the behest of her at the time. I did someone at the top interview of my show to just get this Aloe black, the artist, and talking about just this issue of. Who was it? Pharrell, I think, had one year, had the biggest song of the year, and he made like $12,000.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I mean, Spotify, would they pay what, a millionth of a cent for? I mean, it's just. There's no.

[B]

It makes me so mad.

[A]

There's no connection to, like, oh, I go to the record shop and I gotta choose. I remember once I was standing in tower records and I was looking at, like, I don't know, but some stranger who don't usually talk to me just said, get to dylan. I was looking at like two albums and one was like, the big. This is like 1985.

[B]

I miss that. I miss. We went to the bookstore this morning or this afternoon. My manager and I walked from the hotel to the bookstore on sunset. Now, that bookstore, I used to live right down the street from there. And I have so many memories. From that bookstore on sunset and right across book soup. Yes. Right across from what used to be tower records where I played in the parking lot when I was first newly signed. Oh, it was big, Too big deal for me to play. I mean, There was probably 30 people there. And I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

What was the event, though?

[B]

It was my record release.

[A]

Oh, I see. So they did it at the record. It was like a book signing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And 30 people showed up.

[B]

Yeah, there's probably 30 or 40 people there.

[A]

That's great that you have that. I mean, it's great.

[B]

It's just like for these kids now, it's like. I don't know. I mean, yes, I was born in the 1870s. What can I say? I hate it. Because for me, when you sold records, you knew you had your people. There were people that were like, into what you're doing. How does it even work now? You know we just went on TikTok, which I will say I called Tic tac and my 13 year old was

[A]

like, oh, God, Mom.

[B]

No, really? President Biden, Literally. Literally, yes. Oh, they're like, that's so cringy, Mom.

[A]

But we, like, they can do and know things about that phone and that device and that way of life that we don't even know about. We're like a submarine where we lost our sonar. We're flying blind. And so, I mean, I've read this many times. It's a common story that the parents, something happened. Usually it's something tragic like a suicide. And the parents are like, oh, my God, we had no idea. And you know, and then they said we tried to look, or they'll go, we look through the phone. And yeah, they have ways to fool you. You are so basic on this.

[B]

They're fake Snapchat. They're fake Instagrams. The good thing is I have a young. So my. The young woman that I hired to go on the road with me with my kids when they were really little is now my assistant. And she does all my social media. She's fantastic. And she's like my. She's like my investigator. Because I don't know how to work anything, and I don't really want to know how to work anything. I really don't want to know. I'm just like, I don't want to know. I like to read books. I like to listen to books.

[A]

You know, someday I'm going to do a show called My Five Wives. I thought of this.

[B]

Have you had five wives?

[A]

No, I've had no wives. And the reason why I haven't needed any is because I have five different. My assistant.

[B]

I know. I'm honestly like, who needs a husband? I have a great assistant.

[A]

And then my great friend who made this lives next door. He goes on the road with me and, you know, he does all the macho stuff. He's like, I have five wives and a husband, you know, Like, I can't fix shit. He fixes all the shit, you know? Cause something's always broken. Yeah, that's a great record. You know how you could tell? I'm such a fan of yours, not only of your music, but, like, we have the same taste. Like, some of the songs you've picked to cover are, like, not obvious ones. Like Beware of Darkness. I love that. And everything is broken. I'm not someone who listens to everything.

[B]

I love that you even know that song.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm Saying you picked songs. Oh, another one. Sign My Name.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

One Hit Wonder. I remember that song. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tyler's Trent Darby. Great. The whole record was.

[B]

That record was great.

[A]

Yes. And that was the single, I think.

[B]

Yeah, it was huge.

[A]

But that, you know, that was a cover that I'm sure most people did not know was a cover.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, well, that's a cover.

[A]

Those are all ones that are in my ipod. I still use an ipod. I know.

[B]

I hear that you still use an ipod. And I love you for it.

[A]

There, I said it so much better. I mean, I can. First of all, I can edit on it.

[B]

Can edit on it. Okay.

[A]

Yes. You can cut off the beginning and the end. You can make this.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

See, I don't even know how to work an ipod.

[A]

You were around for you.

[B]

I was, but I didn't know you can edit on it on your computer.

[A]

Because you do everything on the computer and then you sync it to the computer.

[B]

Okay. You downloaded it, Terry.

[A]

So I love that. I mean, I'm anal, so I, like. I can see exactly the song and I don't. Streaming with this. You might like, I might not. I want my music, okay? Like, I download records, listen to them, keep the ones I love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Discard the rest. There's nothing. There's no waste in there. When I put it on shuffle, it's my 4,000 favorite songs from going back to 1968.

[B]

Now, how do you get turned on to new songs anyway?

[A]

You know, like, you can hear it. I could see, you know, I'm like.

[B]

So you would hear it and then you go on your computer and download it from, like, Apple Music. Or do you.

[A]

No, no, no. Yes. Itunes. I pay for it, okay? If I like it, I put Pandora.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is it Pandora? Yes, Pandora, which is stupid. I love you, Pandora, but you are dumb. You can't do what I can do with playlists. You can only, like, play songs from, like, the same era. Algorithms, they don't really have. Right. I can put a playlist together from, like, many different decades, but they all have the same vibe. Pandora, you can't do that. But you're dear to me anyway, Anyway. So I'll, like, put a station. You know, you pick a song you like. Okay, let's hear the whole station. Songs that are like that.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's how I often do it. And then you just hit thumbs up, and then you have a list of new stuff and you like. Usually if I like the song, I'll say, okay, I'm gonna buy. Cause I buy.

[B]

Like, you are committed.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You are committed.

[A]

Well, first of all, I think artists should get what they have coming. I'm telling you, I know this intimately.

[B]

I do, too.

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna do my part. So I buy the album. You can still do that.

[B]

As Emmylou Harris says, that's your way of voting.

[A]

Exactly. And then, you know, sync the ipod. I usually buy three albums, like, at a time. So then let's listen to those three, and I'll sync the ipod and then I'll listen, you know, listen. Look, I know you have a new one. They sent it to me two days ago. First of all, I just don't have time. Second of all, I want to buy this the way I bought every one of your albums and I bought them. They're all good. No, all of them. Well, there's good stuff on all of them.

[B]

Okay, thank you.

[A]

So I take out the ones I like. But your Cheryl Crow playlist is just fantastic. I mean, it's just one after another great one.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So all your hits are like.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I also love. I don't even know what was a single at my age. You know, like, was Abilene. Was that a single?

[B]

That was not a single.

[A]

Okay, that's a great one. I don't even know what it's about, and I love it.

[B]

God. Thank you. My favorite record. Not my favorite record, but the favorite record I've made in a long time. The funnest record I've made was a record called Be Myself.

[A]

Oh, I have it. Of course.

[B]

I can't believe you have that record. I mean, literally.

[A]

Roller Skate. Is that on that one?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, and Lifestyle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, my God. I can't remember.

[A]

Oh, Always on my side.

[B]

Is that that same record that one was on? That is a. I can't remember what song. What record that was on.

[A]

Okay, that one. I hate to say this. Like, nothing makes me cry. Well, not in life. I'm not a crier, but movies can easily. I don't know why, like, you don't cry. Not really over things in life at that time.

[B]

But what do you cry over?

[A]

Like, really? Almost any movie that knows how to, like, hit that thing. I'm a really easy.

[B]

Okay. The Holdovers. I cried at the end of that.

[A]

The Holdovers, Yes.

[B]

It was the one with what's His Name? About the school. The prep school boy who gets left for Christmas. What's the guy's name that plays him? Plays it Anyway. Check it out. I cried at the end of it. It Was so weird.

[A]

Yeah. It's very easy to do that to me, but musically, much less so music now. And I don't even know why that song. Oh, I guess I do. It's just beautiful, and it just really moves me to tears. And very few songs, you know. What song.

[B]

Which song was it?

[A]

Always on My side.

[B]

Always on My side. Oh, thank you.

[A]

And the Sting version. Both. I have them both, one after another.

[B]

You're good.

[A]

Yeah. No, he's. That's a great duet. You know what's on?

[B]

You want to hear something crazy about that?

[A]

What?

[B]

We shot the video for that four days after I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I was supposed to present at the Grammys with Lance, and we had split a few days before that.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

And Sting went with me to the Grammys.

[A]

Rough week, huh?

[B]

It was surreal. But Sting was, like, literally, like knight in shining armor. He's like, I'll present with you. And he was like, literally. I look at the artwork from that. From that song, and he's, like, got his arms around me. I look like a freaking deer in headlights.

[A]

You are the.

[B]

And that song, you know, you are

[A]

the teacher's pet for, like, every great male rock star over, like, 30 years. I mean, spanning the whole thing. I mean, Prince loved you'd. And Mick Jagger and Dylan and, you know, all these different. Everybody. Michael Jackson. That's great.

[B]

I didn't really know if he even knew who I was. Like, I ran entertainment at the Grammys after I toured with him for 18 months, and I was just like, hey. And he was like, hello? And I was like, I don't think

[A]

he knows you weren't his type. Grown.

[B]

But I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

[A]

Oh, I think we know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look, I'm very. Try to be very nonjudgmental, but, I mean, when Oprah threw her lot in with the accusers, I was like, well, first of all, I believe the accusers. Right? I mean, you could just tell. It's not that hard sometimes to tell when people are lying. I just don't think there was enough in it for these guys to. You know, there's always some money or some fame or something, but, you know, it's really hard to go forward even like that. Even in the beginning, it's an icky thing. But on stage, he certainly looked like he was attracted.

[B]

I would say he was insane. You know, he's one of those people. Well, I would say in all the years of my being on the road and working with different Artists, and I've been really lucky, but I was new then, didn't have a record deal. And it's the first time I ever started thinking about why some people can manipulate 60,000 people physically. Like. Like Carlos Santana says, you change the molecules. I mean, and there's total divinity in that. If you believe in God or you don't, it's an energy thing. I call it divinity because it is divine and it is not explicable. But then there was this whole other thing, this damage and how a person can hold all of that. I can see why he. I always say he won't live very long because you can't be able to have that incredible energy, energetic power and be that damaged and have that inform who you are, and you're living everyday, normal life. It just was insane to watch because he'd go out and do these moves and sing these songs, and you were just, like, transported. Like you're watching something that had never been done before. Just incredible. I mean, I will never forget feeling how I felt watching him from backstage.

[A]

I did not see that, but I did see the movie they put out Posthumously where he's doing rehearsals for the tour that never happened.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You saw him.

[B]

I did not see it.

[A]

You haven't seen it?

[B]

I don't wanna. Mm. Mm.

[A]

Okay. Well, I'll try to make this brief just so you're not triggered, but, you know, I mean, this is near the end. He's about to go. Remember was it the O2 in London he was gonna do the. Whoever was the. The promoter who signed him for, what was it, 100 shows, thinking Michael Jackson was gonna make it through. If he made it through one, it was gonna be a victory.

[B]

He was like Aaron Rodgers.

[A]

Not since the guy who turned down the Beatles.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Was there a worse decision than. Okay. Anyway, so he's rehearsing and, you know, it's intermittently with Dr. Conrad Murray, currently now my personal doctor.

[B]

Is he really?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm like, wow.

[A]

Yes, I have Dr. Conrad Murray, Dr. Eugene Landy, who truly I treated Brian Wilson.

[B]

Yes, No, I know.

[A]

And Dr. Vinnie Boombats. That's my team.

[B]

No wonder you look so good.

[A]

Thank you. I owe it all to clean liquor, but so.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, shit. What were we talking about?

[B]

About the show. You watched the documentary.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So, you know, a lot of it is. But there was still moments where in rehearsal he would be the old Michael Jackson and would just go off. And the other dancers in the crew were just like, slack jawed. And then would burst into applause at the end.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was just like a flame that burned very bright consistently for a while.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Never. Not even a healthy person at that. I mean, he was already like, 40 or. I don't know how old he was at the time. Maybe closer to.

[A]

No, closer to 50.

[B]

50. I mean. Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

And no nose. You know, a noseless skeleton. That makes it tricky to perform a hundred jokes.

[B]

Makes it tricky. It's hard to like.

[A]

But I must say, I mean, you said he's insane. Yes, that is a form of insanity.

[B]

I think it's like, insane in a good way, but also a conflicted way. A very conflicted way. You know?

[A]

No, I don't think. Really a great way. I think show business at that level. I mean, the thing you were just talking about where the magic, the Carlos Santana thing, that energy, the divinity, whatever you want to call it, that thing is so powerful that the person who is reflecting that ray off them back to the audience, that ray is transforming their mind. I mean, we see it now with Kanye West. You just see it with lots of people who. It's just like you're a normal person, and then they can't handle this level of adulation. And you can have anything you want. That's what warps their brain. And you're allowed to pig out on whatever you want. Drugs.

[B]

I mean, it's like, you know, young athletes who become huge and get these massive salaries and then wind up, you know, having. Having to claim bankruptcy. I mean, it's, it's all too much. I think the. I don't know, I think money is. Money is man.

[A]

It's not the money so much, it's

[B]

the money, but it's the power. Right. And the ego and adoration.

[A]

That's what it is. The fame and it's no one ever saying anything but yes, and can I get you more?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Can I get you a better drug?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Can I get you more pussy? Can I get you whatever?

[B]

You're more dispensable. Like whoever is serving you is also highly dispensable. So that person. And having been around artists that have people that are the yes people, they're terrified of getting replaced. So it's a vicious cycle, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine doing it as a woman. It's that rock and roll, just in general, that lifestyle. It's not really. It doesn't jibe with maybe modern women when we're all trans and we're all non binary and we make no assumptions at birth. But like old school women of which you are one and I love you for it. Let's say women. Classic.

[B]

Yes, I'm a classic woman. Yes. Or what are they called? I'm a. What's the. Something about a childbearing.

[A]

Yeah, good head.

[B]

A childbearing. You know, it has something. A menstruating person or whatever.

[A]

A menstruating person is what we now have to. Yes. Because we don't want to offend pregnant men or something.

[B]

Yeah, no, I don't. Yeah.

[A]

That's the kind of shit that drives me crazy.

[B]

And it doesn't really work if you've gone through menopause and then. It's just. It's too complicated, Bill. It's just too complicated.

[A]

Well, you know, there's nothing wrong with teaching that there is a default setting to certain things. And also we completely accept and respect when something is not the default setting. It's like most people are right handed. That's the default setting. They used to actually discriminate against left handed people. They thought it was like a sign of the devil or some shit really. But we got over it.

[B]

I'm thinking of the left handed people that. I know. I'm kidding.

[A]

Well, first of all, I know you don't have to do this. I can't tell you how appreciative I am, how flattering it is.

[B]

I wanted to come do it.

[A]

I know. I Know that's why you're here. That's why I'm.

[B]

And I love your show.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I love the. How thought provoking and how truth telling and how conversational is. You know, it is interesting talking about Bobby. You know, I've known Kid Rock for a lot of years and he and I are.

[A]

Picture.

[B]

We're a great.

[A]

What a record.

[B]

Speaking of picture, I think we're a great illustration of two people who are very. On very different sides politically, of course. And we've had some deep and hard conversations. Like after the shooting in Nashville, right. I called him and said, I need to understand what is happening. You know, I reached out to a lot of different country artists and got nowhere. And he said, I want to come over and talk to you about it. And we sat and we talked about it and talked about his grandkids actually go to school where my kids go or his granddaughter. And people can sit and talk about hard stuff.

[A]

This is my life. Don't compromise this is my quest to follow that song.

[B]

I wish to.

[A]

No matter how hopeless, no matter how long. Yes, that's what I'm always trying to do.

[B]

Well, I appreciate and I love when this came up, I was like, yes.

[A]

You know the people I fucking hate the most now, if you ask me, who do I think is the biggest threat to this country? It's not even close. It is the right wing. They don't believe in democracy anymore or the environment.

[B]

I know, it's scary. Yeah, it's very scary.

[A]

Donald Trump still exists. He's still out there. We need a bigger boat, blah, blah, blah. But like who viscerally makes me want to punch them in the fucking face.

[B]

Okay, who?

[A]

The kind of people who, like, if you were someone who after doing picture with Kid Rock, wouldn't talk to him because he voted for Trump, I'd hate you. That's the kind of person I fucking hate.

[B]

Okay? So I grew up with a conservative and a liberal. And when I turned 18, my dad and my mom secretly were like, who are you going to vote for? Because they would always cancel each other out their votes. And it was always a thing. I mean, in our household there were heated conversations about what was going on politically. We had the nightly news and that was it. Nightly News and then 11 o' clock news, which nobody ever watched, so it wasn't like now. But people talked about the shit, you know, and disagreed about it. And that's my only thing. I'm like, we gotta get. What's happening now is terrifying.

[A]

I keep saying it you can hate Trump. You can't hate everyone who likes him. It's half the country. You can't at least vote for him. And as much as I would never do that, and nobody's been harder on him. I get it. I get it. Where different people are coming from. They didn't grow up like you. They don't think like you, and you can't make them, and you shouldn't try. Let's, you know, let's complete the circle and have our differences be our strength. That kind of stuff that they're. That they're always talking about. But it's true. I don't want to live in a country without the red states. I like going to the red states. There's something about that being there that I don't get here. Like a bad fucking attitude, you know, just not as judgy.

[B]

Sorry, I'm going in for my second. They told me there was free beer on this podcast. So I'm like, oh, yeah. All the.

[A]

I gotta say, beer comes up in your songs a lot.

[B]

I am a beer drinker.

[A]

Oh, I can tell.

[B]

Now, let me just tell you, my wild years were a little later, right?

[A]

What?

[B]

My wilder years were a little later and now pulled back to just the occasional, you know, beer.

[A]

But have you ever counted how many songs of yours have beer in the lyrics?

[B]

What can I tell you? Just really hoping for that endorsement.

[A]

What did you think when he shot the Bud Light? Did you call him then?

[B]

I'm going to be honest with you, and I don't know if you'll see this or not. That's why I called him and said, I need to understand where the hell you're coming from when we just had. And I said, what is it Budweiser? Is it the Trans Dillon? Because neither one of those have anything to do with how much money you make or your freedom.

[A]

He knows that.

[B]

Yes, he did. And so I said, I need to understand. And he's like, I'm gonna come over. And I love him absolutely for that. Look, I mean, that's not the only reason I love him, but we are like family. Like, he told me when my boys came along.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Anything ever happens, I'm there for your kids. And he came over, and you know what? Before he left, we hugged and told each other we loved each other.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We hammered it out.

[A]

Yes. You know, I mean, I had Ann Coulter on the show a couple weeks ago.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I hadn't had her on for a while, but, I mean, I've been friends with her since 1994 or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And no one's gonna make me not be friends with her. She's a fun chick to hang out with. And we don't talk politics if we're not on the show because I know where she is and she knows knows where I am. Don't tell me who my friends can be. Yeah, really obnoxious. That's the kind of shit I hate.

[B]

I will say one thing.

[A]

Talk to them. Maybe you'll find something you don't know

[B]

that is exactly right. And for me, I'm a research junkie. Like, I need to understand, like, whatever's happening in the world, I need to go back and find out what the history of it is. Cause more than likely what we know about it is not really the reality. But one of the things I'm learning is that people have big platforms that you do outlandish things in order to whip up your base. I mean, it's what politicians do. It's what people. And that is so ego driven. Okay, that's fine. We all know that all of us have big egos. And Kid Rock is not exempt from that. It's fun to whip it up and see what happens. You know what I mean? And that's kind of what he said. He's like, ah, it wasn't me. You know, it wasn't that. I wasn't that. You know, he's a showman. It's all. That's what it is. But my thing is, I want to make sure that all the people out there that jump on the hate bandwagon and it becomes dangerous. Like, we hate Dylan, whoever, and we hate Budweiser and all that. Y' all are being played. Y' all are being whipped into this. Us against them. This is. We're in this group of people that hate this and that. And that's the part I have the problem with. I don't like that.

[A]

What I see on the news is a lot of college kids saying things to people who support Israel, like, you're Nazi scum. I mean, who have everything so ass backwards that that's when I need a joint. But I will never light one up. But can I hold one?

[B]

Yes, you can. If I wasn't singing tomorrow, I'd say, light that bad boy up right now.

[A]

No, I know. I've never not. But like, for you, first of all, I would do this on standing on me. I would do this standing on my head. But it is a little like running a Marath for the first time.

[B]

I'm saying, I know it's got to be hard. It's difficult. First you're wearing a suit jacket, and now you're. You're not smoking. And I just.

[A]

You feel better now.

[B]

I'm going to tell you how much I appreciate that.

[A]

I. You know, I appreciate that. I. I feel better now. I'm almost like George Burns with the cigar. Remember George Burns?

[B]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[A]

He always had a cigar in his. After the stage of show business, I'm at. I need the prop cigar. Oh, God, just shoot me down. Hit me over the head with his

[B]

say Good night gracious guitar.

[A]

Your boy Willie Nelson signed that.

[B]

Oh, I love that man.

[A]

Yes, I did. Another one. Everybody, like, adopted you. Everybody wanted to get a little of your.

[B]

I've been very shine up. Listen, I'm blessed beyond. I don't even know what to say. I'm just blessed. I know that sounds Dawn Henley. Love, Don.

[A]

She was in the news yesterday.

[B]

What was Don in the news? Okay. I read the New York Times in the morning, and then I just want to know that the world hasn't blown up. Although it is blowing up. I can't even go near it now. It's so toxic. But what's going on with Don? He's suing.

[A]

Well, he's suing somebody.

[B]

How about lyrics?

[A]

Lyrics, yeah. Notebook came out that he. It has all their notes. When they were doing their stuff, him and Glenn and.

[B]

And he lost. Right. Didn't I see that? I think I looked at the news last night after we landed, probably.

[A]

I mean, it's hard to see.

[B]

I think he didn't get it back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But it said the Eagles. That's their last tour, I guess, that they're on.

[B]

That's really.

[A]

You're right, because they even had to call one. They even had to call their most recent incarnation, the Hell Freezes Overture, because he had said in 1980, we'll get back together when Hell Freezes Overture. Which is typical of their cheeky humor. They were. I love those. And that's one of the greatest bands and sounds of all time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And by the way, 60 Minutes. I saw you. Your documentary opens that. You're with whoever, Steve Croft or.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Somebody.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I did it once. Joyful experience. Isn't it? 60 Minutes.

[B]

But I didn't even know what Joyful Experience was back then.

[A]

Oh, I know. We were thrilled. I was thrilled to be on it. I was, like, thrilled to be on it again. Yeah.

[B]

Nice to meet you, Mr. Carl.

[A]

Oh, it's exactly. I mean, 60 Minutes. But they had The Eagles once, and they were putting out. Remember they put out an album, very good album in 2007. They hadn't put out one in 28 years. And they put out one called Long Road to Eden.

[B]

Yes, I do remember that.

[A]

And it's really good. It's a double album.

[B]

Yes, I do remember that.

[A]

So they were promoting that. And Steve Croft or whoever says to Glenn Frey, like, you know, 60 Minutes. And what do you attribute to the success of the. And he just named the song titles. And I thought it was the most eloquent answer. And you could do the same thing. You just have to, like, give your song titles. If somebody ever says, what is your. Psychologically, how did you manipulate.

[B]

Well, because really, all I want to do is have some fun. But you know what? If it makes you happy, it can't be that bad. But sometimes a change would do you good.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, that's really at the end of the day to me. And that's again why I love the ipod. Cause I can just have. That's. Oh, I can know exactly how great an artist is. Just one after another. And you can do that. You know, there are. Look in this your business, if you have one hit, you can work forever somewhere.

[B]

I have to find a story, though. I do.

[A]

But if to do a whole show of hits. Yes, you're that kind of act. And that's why they'll always come out.

[B]

So I wound up on a gig with Lionel Richie and Billy Joel in Atlanta, which was, I have to say, really, really fun. I was the first one on. And in the backstage area, I come back and Lionel's like, cheryl, come in here. And he pulls me into Billy's dressing room. He's like, the three of us, we have hits. We've got to go on a world tour. We got to take this thing on a world tour. Hits all night long, just nothing but hits. And then he turns around and me, it was like Borscht Bell. Cheryl, you know when you play new songs, I was like, no, never. You never play them. He's like, they don't want to hear new songs. They just want to hear the hits. And now every time I play, I'm like, Been told never to play new songs, but I love playing a new song, but. And now I have a new record. So it's like, I guess I never play new songs, but.

[A]

Well, but it won't be.

[B]

You sneak one in here or, you know, you sneak them in.

[A]

I know how they do it.

[B]

Yeah. And then they go to the bathroom while you're playing it or hopefully buy a T shirt.

[A]

Yeah. But in five years, that record will be. There will be songs from that record that will be feathered in, and they'll probably like those, you know, too.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

You know, maybe.

[B]

I mean, sort of aged out of having, you know, hits so.

[A]

Well, who knows even what makes a hit? Yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah. It's hard to. I remember McCartney put out a really great album in 1989, Flowers in the Dirt.

[B]

I loved that record.

[A]

And I thought it was like, he did it with Elvis Costello.

[B]

Yes, I remember.

[A]

So it was like one of the. It could have stood as a Beatle record.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It was that good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That Beatlesque sound. And of course, he was 47 at the time, so it just. You know, that generation is just gonna say, no, I'm sorry. You had your moment. I don't care how good it is.

[B]

You know, dispassionately try being 62 and a woman, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. Although, I mean, it is fun. Well, I would not. I wouldn't stop making records. I don't know about albums. I did make this an album because I had so many songs, but it's weird to put music out and know that a song is gonna turn up, maybe on a playlist with, like, Ice Spice. I mean, it's just. It's so antithetical. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're on New Music Friday, and you're, like, blocked between, if you're lucky.

[A]

But you go to football games, remember?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ice Pice.

[B]

Actually, yes. I was at a ball game with her.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes, about 20 sections away.

[A]

Oh, yeah. But wasn't she at the super bowl with Teresa?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Boy, if Taylor Swift thinks that she invented the breakup song. Oh, I said this to somebody recently. First of all, she's gotta listen to youo're so Vain. Carly Simon. That kind of like.

[B]

There's not a better one than that.

[A]

Well, there is not a better one, but. Alone in the Dark by Cheryl Crowe.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Was that a single?

[B]

I love. Hell, no.

[A]

No, really? Oh, that's a real shiv in the gut.

[B]

You're in, like, an earpiece. Is there somebody in the room?

[A]

I think I'm so old, I can't hear.

[B]

Alone in the dark. No, no, you're so. I can't believe you know all these, like, deep guys.

[A]

Well, anybody who works here, I'll tell you. I'm a very big music fan, so I just. I know what I know now. Do I know Could I name every song on every album? No, but I have stuff from every album. Yeah, I have the ones that I really adore. Steve McQueen. Which one is that? That was a single.

[B]

That was a single? Yeah, that was on the third record.

[A]

I love the fourth record. That's in the tradition of the cool chick who's too cool to get tied down genre.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which is so sexy.

[B]

Oh, my God. Video I got on my dirt bike. I mean, God.

[A]

Oh, really? See, I don't remember the videos.

[B]

Yeah. In fact, I was hanging out with Dale Earnhardt in that video. And them are getting mad at me.

[A]

Right, right. Cause Steve McQueen. Well, I need us a fast machine. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But do you remember the Stone Ponies? Linda Ronstadt.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Doing different drum.

[B]

Yes, of course. Yeah.

[A]

Do you remember that song? Yeah, that's that same. We travel to a different drum. Can't you see the way I run every time you make eyes at me? Don't get me wrong it's not that I knock it, it's just that I'm not in the market. What a great rhyme.

[B]

Knock it and run it for someone

[A]

who wants to love Just only me I ain't saying you ain't pretty. All I'm saying is I'm not ready for any person, place or thing that tries to put the reins in on me. Bitch.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

So that kind of song, I think we should do a whole, like album. Just those. I could probably write Free Bird, get off my. You Don't Know Me like that, Get up off of Me songs.

[B]

You know, I've had this long standing introduction to Strong Enough to be My man about how I never got married, got engaged. I never got married, got engaged three times.

[A]

What you did?

[B]

Still have all my money.

[A]

Never got married, were engaged to Lance Armstrong. I was, you know, he sat right there.

[B]

A few months ago, I actually caught the very beginning of that and I saw Bobby Kidd. I've seen actually quite a few of them.

[A]

Wow. What an intense guy. Is he Lance Armstrong? Oh, yeah.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Who would know better than you?

[B]

I don't know him now in this incarnation because he's.

[A]

Wasn't he then?

[B]

He was then, but he was racing then and you know.

[A]

I know, but like he was intense. Just to pick that as a profession, riding a bike. Of course. You got it intense.

[B]

I will say my 16 year old is on a bass fishing team, which I didn't know was actually a. So when I met Lance, I was like bike riding, that's a sport.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

So. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't realize bass fishing is not a sport. Either is running around the block, but they may be in the Olympics.

[B]

I'm gonna have to dispute that with you. Just as long as I know my kid might be watching this. It is a sport. And the damn bass boat costs 70 grand. Okay? It's not like buying a baseball bat. Okay? Baseball bats. 350, honey. Oh, my God.

[A]

But you still drink beer? You still drink beer.

[B]

I do.

[A]

What drugs did you do back in the day? That's what I'm saying. Like the rockstar life.

[B]

My wilder days were drinking, smoking weed. You know, smoking cigarettes. Cause I was super cool when I was drunk.

[A]

Me too. And cigarettes. That's the one I regret. You have one new message

[B]

translating. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney.

[A]

You could say that again.

[B]

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[A]

Now we party. This is incredible. Wow. I am clearing the rest of the day.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah, I don't have the addict gene, so I could just like, not smoke for, you know, then I would have three glasses of red wine and be like bumming cigarettes, you know.

[A]

Wow. Very few people don't have the addict gene for nicotine.

[B]

I do not have it. I didn't ever start the habit of, like, smoking when I was not drinking, so I don't know if I would have been, but I don't know Just did a guided mushroom tour recently, or guided mushroom journey, which I don't call that a. I call it a tour. It was a tour through my very effed up brain, if you know what I'm saying.

[A]

What do you mean? What are we talking about?

[B]

Have you ever a guided psilocybin?

[A]

Oh, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Guided though.

[B]

Yeah. Through Johns Hopkins.

[A]

How bougie. To have a guided fucking drug trip.

[B]

I know. See, the thing is, you can do mushrooms. I'm like, but what do you mean guided? So you do it well.

[A]

You've done mushrooms before? No.

[B]

Yes, but not like medicinal, like full powered. You mean it was a two and a half hour or three hour where they give you some and then you take more and you do it with like a playlist.

[A]

We're not talking about ayahuasca here, we're talking about mushrooms. No, no, because mushrooms I've done many times and I, you know, it's. Yeah, it's a trip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, so what does the guide do?

[B]

The guide on your left. They say if you look to the cerebellum, try not to look over to the. I think more than anything, what they do is make sure that you're not. If you're not a person who like does recreational drugs, it's more from a scientific standpoint for people who struggle with manic depression or depression or whatever it is. Right.

[A]

And I think it's very helpful.

[B]

Yes, it was.

[A]

I mean, Ellis, it was helpful. LSD started out as that until Timothy

[B]

Leary got a hold of it.

[A]

You know that chair over there is his chair.

[B]

Seriously, did you watch or did you ever listen to the Michael Pollan stuff?

[A]

Yeah, the food guy.

[B]

So interesting. Yes.

[A]

Right?

[B]

No, no, no. Yeah, but he was.

[A]

Yeah, but then he did a book.

[B]

Yes, yes. And then what? Fantastic. Fun. The fantastic Fungi. Or Fungi. That documentary.

[A]

Well, don't get me started on fungus. No, seriously.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I'm a big believer that it's something that we don't pay the kind of attention to we should. I think Western medicine sees everything as bacterial and they misdiagnose stuff. And fungus is, I think, responsible for stuff. Even the CDC a few years ago finally said, if you don't know what something is, look to fungus.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that was like many years late. So, like I said, don't get me started.

[B]

I know, I agree. This is a whole different podcast. This is a whole different podcast for those who want to look more with you on fungus. With you on my. Yeah, man, I want to be in the fungus club.

[A]

Fungus. When HBO did that show, just. They did some. They had a show. It was a huge hit.

[B]

What was it?

[A]

It was called how to Change youe Mind, Last of Us, I think.

[B]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[A]

And it was about the villain in. It was fungus. It said, finally, somebody's getting on the fungus thing.

[B]

Because the villain, like, not the villain in the sense of the device.

[A]

Well, whatever was taking over people and turning them into zombies. Everything has to. You have to. Either a zombie or a Dracula.

[B]

Come on, this is tv.

[A]

But the thing that was behind it was fungus. I was like, yes, that's much more likely than, you know, a crisis. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, so many cancers or. Diagnosis cancer. When they're fungal.

[A]

Well, my dog.

[B]

Case in point.

[A]

Well, do you know when they want to. What they do when they want to give mice cancer?

[B]

In the lab, they saute some mushrooms

[A]

and basically, really, they give them mycotoxins. That's a fungus toxin. Penicillin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Antibiotics are sometimes. Are often.

[B]

Weren't they derived from the fungus that

[A]

made it Moldy bread.

[B]

Yeah. Moldy bread.

[A]

Okay. So the connection. I'm not saying I know the connection, but I've certainly read about the subject and people have the theories, and it looks like there. I think there is quite a connection between cancer and fungal infection.

[B]

And, you know, but the crazy thing about it is, is that when they do studies about, like, forestry, how fungus or mushrooms create their own, the way they can actually go in and save some trees by creating their own antibiotics. I mean, I think there's so many amazing possibilities, not just for humans, but also for the planet. I mean, at this moment, when we're asleep at the wheel and nobody seems to give a shit about the planet because we're too worried about making sure. I mean, drives me crazy how we're turning a blank eye to this or a blind eye. But anyway, the fact that mushrooms could be a huge answer to what's happening

[A]

to at least preserve or a huge problem. I mean, they can kill us. I mean, you don't want to breathe in mold.

[B]

No, not mold. Yeah.

[A]

Well, but I mean, fungus is really strong. Almost every plant in nature is antifungal because it needs to be. Because plants don't have legs. They can't run away. The only way they can repel it. But take a lemon, like the most antifungal thing. It's pure citrus, Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You leave it on the counter long enough, what does it look like?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Has mold all over it.

[B]

Fungus. Yeah. And it'll eat through a marble countertop.

[A]

Fungus. Fungus is unrelenting. I'm a hawk on fungus.

[B]

Fungus is unrelenting. The name of our new podcast,

[A]

extremism. And the fight against fungus is no vice and moderation is no virtue. I'm a one issue candidate. I'm a hawk on fungus and I'm gonna attack anyone who's to my left on this issue. But it is true. I mean, fungus, you should, you know, people should think about fungus more like sinal infections. I don't wanna get spoiled.

[B]

But I will say for people who have struggled with depression, people who have, you know, mental challenges, that the studies they've done at Johns Hopkins, four years it was shut down. They saw great outcomes for people with ptsd. You know, I think at least people are starting to get back to the place where they can look at some of these natural, holistic as being at least worth legalizing.

[A]

Oh yeah. I mean, I don't think the amount of mushrooms that you took for psychological reasons would be the kind that would be bad for you. And by the way, if you don't have a fungal infection, it's not. You can eat mushrooms and your body has in it fungus that is natural, that you need some good bacteria, some bad bacteria and some fungus. It's when you get the proportions out of whack. Antibiotics kill the good bacteria which fight with the fungus for food. That's how we kill bacteria. But unfortunately, when they kill the bad bacteria, they kill the good bacteria.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And then the fungus proliferate. Anybody who's had antibiotics probably has some level of a fungal infection.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And fungus live on one thing, sugar. So you always feed them when you're eating the kind of things that are in the American diet, syrups and sugar and carbohydrates. That kind of stuff feeds when you're hungry like that. It's the fungus calling out for food. I told you not to get me started.

[B]

I know, I didn't.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You knew so much about mushrooms.

[A]

Fungus.

[B]

No, no one told me fungus.

[A]

I'm telling you, we could own it as a suburb.

[B]

This would be a three hour podcast, okay?

[A]

Only about fungus, only about fungus. And every week, but only about fungus. It's like those stores that say like only lamps. You know, those things. Excuse me, do you have shades? I'm sure that happens once a day.

[B]

Only lamps.

[A]

What do I have to do? Fucking put in the title. It says only lamps. What do I have to do to

[B]

get not lazy boys?

[A]

But no, I mean, you could do a, you know, morning talk show if that's Something you. You could be on the View. What do you think about that, Cheryl?

[B]

No. And no.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Unequivocal.

[A]

And what you pay, the ratings would be through the roof, I swear to God, first of all. So you're from Missouri.

[B]

Here's my thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't really like people. No, I'm kidding. I'm from Missouri. Yes.

[A]

Okay. So, like, you have that accent. You know I have an accent. Yeah. You still. Yeah, you still sound country.

[B]

Well, I live in Nashville now.

[A]

Okay. But it's also in your.

[B]

And I don't know what you're talking about. No, I'm kidding.

[A]

That's good, because everything is tilted toward the coastal elites and their people, and they.

[B]

So the entire coast has moved to Nashville.

[A]

That's true, too.

[B]

Yes, it is. And, yeah, we'll see how that plays out in politics. You know, most of LA lives in Nashville now.

[A]

Well, Nashville and Austin seem to be the kind of places. And I get it to a degree, Miami. But Miami's too crazy. Yeah, but like, places where people want to go where. No, I don't want to live in the sticks with a bunch of hicks, but I also don't want to live at the park in Beverly Hills where you can't throw a Frisbee because of that kind of asshole. Is there a place in America where I can, like, get away from those extremes?

[B]

That's where I can work from home.

[A]

Yeah. Where I can, like.

[B]

And I can buy a really nice house for about a tenth of the price and the money and have a giant yard.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. No, we're getting.

[A]

And also, I'm sure, you know, Nashville's not a hick town. It's where all the musicians are.

[B]

It's like a little. I would say it's.

[A]

There's places.

[B]

It's a. I can't say it's like Austin, where it's like a blue oasis. I mean, I think it's. It's probably the bluest in all of Tennessee.

[A]

And it doesn't need to be.

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, I'm just having a place. We can get a nice dinner.

[B]

You can get a nice dinner. You can go see. You can see Kings of Leon, or you can go see Vince Gill or, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, Jack White.

[A]

Right. It doesn't have the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but I never went there anyway.

[B]

Who goes to those places?

[A]

Eggheads. That, too. I mean, everybody in New York is always like, the museums. Like, how often do you go to a museum? You. Fuck you.

[B]

You go there once a year.

[A]

Well, I Mean, I was never a culture vulture. I mean, I like culture.

[B]

Culture Vulture. I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

See, that's the thing though.

[A]

Song title.

[B]

It's Culture Vulture.

[A]

You're always looking unique New York.

[B]

Unique New York. Unique. You norc. Sorry. I have kids. It's what we do.

[A]

But like, are you always doing that? Like, are you like a blue jay who's always finding little scraps, you know, blue jays for the nest. Because, you know. Oh, this could go. This could go in a song. This could be a title.

[B]

Oh, you mean, like, am I collecting constantly? It should be like fodder.

[A]

Like, aren't you.

[B]

Oh, my God. Used to when I would be making a record or getting ready to make a record, like, we'd have a record out, we'd have success, we'd tour, I'd come home, I'd start writing and it would be like, okay, what am I writing about? You know, lots of frantic, like checking what notes have I written now my kids leave for school, I got to my screen and porch, notepad, guitar, cup of tea, and I write my freaking brains out.

[A]

Really?

[B]

There's so much to write about right now.

[A]

Cup of tea. You know, literally a cup of tea.

[B]

Or literally no coffee in the morning. Yeah, but I mean, I'm talking about 6:30 in the morning.

[A]

No, I get a lot done on coffee. I really value that time, like. Cause it's only once a day.

[B]

Me too. You know, I have three cups of coffee in the morning.

[A]

Yeah, right. You can't. How about once a day, first thing? And then by the time you sleep,

[B]

don't talk to me until I've had my coffee. My kids know it. They're like, don't talk to her.

[A]

Right. And they abide by that. Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yes. In fact, my 13 year old is the exact same way. We're just like.

[A]

So it's you and the kids in a house outside of Nashville.

[B]

Yeah, we're kind of. Yeah, we're. I can't. We're not in downtown Nashville. We're in Nashville.

[A]

And then you have a studio, I'm guessing in your house, of course, over the barn.

[B]

I have horses over the barn. Yes, yes. It's idyllic.

[A]

It's. Oh, come on.

[B]

Who lives like me? Me.

[A]

Yeah. And do you. Can you like, you have like a fireman's pole? You can go right down into the barn when you want it. When you.

[B]

No, no, that's a strip from pole. Yeah, no, I know, I recognize it when. Kid rocks out.

[A]

Hey, it was here when I bought the house?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's necessary for wiring.

[B]

Oh, yes. No, I don't have a fire spot, actually. I don't even go down there unless I'm, like, gonna record. And I didn't do any recording on this record. I sent it to my friend and said, these are my mini screenplays, and I want you to Martin Scorsese the shit out of them. And it was the most glorious experience I've ever had.

[A]

I don't understand.

[B]

Okay, so I usually produce myself, and I usually am, like, from the beginning to the end and playing and writing and this bunch of songs. Cause, you know, the last record I put out, I said, I'm not making records anymore. No more albums.

[A]

Be my films. Was that it?

[B]

No, it was Threads.

[A]

Threads with everybody?

[B]

Yes, with lots of people.

[A]

Again, you pick these songs that are like, oh, man.

[B]

I'll tell you what, the song, though, with Johnny Cash and having him in my ear, I just had this weird, like, 11:30 at night. Dead. But I just. All the conversations I'd had with him before he recorded it, I. I don't know. I just. I came out of there, I was like, I'm not gonna make albums anymore. This is. It's done.

[A]

Well, maybe just not duets with dead people. Maybe that's the issue.

[B]

I actually prefer duets with De. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

[A]

They can't complain. It's true.

[B]

That is not true.

[A]

Well, that's a great. Because Tony Bennett just called. No.

[B]

Okay. All right, okay. Give me a minute. No. So this record, there's just, like, the AI Thing is what started it. Reading about the Beatles. And I don't fault them, but I was conflicted about that.

[A]

I do fault them.

[B]

And then the George Carlin thing sent me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, it sent me.

[A]

No, we're in.

[B]

I paced, literally. My kids would leave for school, and I'm like, what the. What are we doing here?

[A]

Have you seen the Billy Joel. The new Billy Joel song video?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Am I gonna, like, want to, like, go hang myself and then.

[A]

Why? Cause it bad.

[B]

No. What are we doing now with AI?

[A]

You know, Billy Joel came out with his first song in 30 years. He debuted at the Grammys. And that wasn't really him.

[B]

That was AI.

[A]

No. No. But for the video, they have him singing it as himself now, but also as him singing this new song that he only wrote now when he's 28 and 35 and 42.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So. And it's.

[B]

Here's my thing about that.

[A]

It's terrible.

[B]

He's alive, he's okay. And I mean, he is. Harrison Ford did that whole latest where they've manipulated his face to make him look younger.

[A]

And the Irishman De Niro. And they de. Aged them.

[B]

Yes. And of course me on social media with, with lots of filters, same thing. No, I'm kidding. But it's one thing if you're alive and you are controlling the image that you're putting out and you can actually address. Yeah, we used AI but if you're using somebody else and manipulating, I mean, we're getting. It's beyond deep fakes where it's like, I don't know, I mean, I actually called my attorney and was like, this is a weird thing. It's like negotiating real estate in space, which I know our countries are doing, where they're deciding who's owning what parts of space, which I find to be like, for me, I'm just like, I don't want anything to do. I don't want my image coming out, I don't want my voice coming out. I don't want any of my old demos coming out. I want it in writing for posterity and I want it locked in something where AI can't get in there and change my words.

[A]

What I think is scariest is that when you look at the history of when the technology comes along and does something horrible, their reaction seems to be, what are you gonna do? It's technology. We can't do anything about it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Think about Member Napster.

[B]

Napster.

[A]

Okay, perfect. So first the technology comes along. Yeah, we're gonna steal it now.

[B]

Except for me and Don Henley who are on Capitol Hill every 10, like we're there every Tuesday, like trying to fight for stuff.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And the Senate subcommittees are all saying, well, it's already here. Right, you can't do anything about it now.

[A]

So they gave up on that. Then Spotify Streaming comes in and they gave up on like the basic model of business.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

So why would I think now that this technology they're not going to give up again on somehow guard railing this shit?

[B]

Because, well, they can't do it now. And for one thing we're frogs in a pot. Because you know that phrase, froggy?

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Yes. So I was talking to my kids about it. I worked with this amazing young songwriter recently who's written on tons of shit and she played me a demo. It was a demo that she had written with a couple of people and she sang it and she's like, I needed a guy to sing it. So I paid $5 and got John Mayer's voice, and she played me the demo, and it. John Mayer singing $5.

[A]

What's the $5 she paid a service.

[B]

It's like ChatGPT, but instead you insert somebody's voice and it replicates his voice. Like, not only his voice, but his. His inflections, his style. There's. I started crying. I was just like, I. I know John. There's no way I would not know this was him for $5. But. And I said. And she was Talking about the ChatGPT thing and how she could put stuff in, and it's not always good, but it gets your brain started, and there's always a couple of good lines. And I just was like, you're 21. I know this is. This is what you're growing up in. I know this is normal for you. But what is not normal about it, which you will never know, is that the thing that creates art is like, it's the human experience. It's not a computer's experience.

[A]

And that's why I think we will survive to a degree, because the audience, at some level, they don't know how to read anymore. It's a joke to think they would get through a whole book. They actually make jokes about that book

[B]

or a whole song. We don't get paid unless they listen to it for more than 30 seconds.

[A]

Yeah, but people do still listen to whole songs. Bill Mountain, most. No, even the kids listen to songs. I mean, I don't think their attention span is so short that they can't get through a song if they like it. Yeah, okay.

[B]

They'll listen to a Zach Bryan song all the way through.

[A]

Who? Yeah, I don't know who that is. Zach Bryan.

[B]

Zach Bryan. What, do you live in the.

[A]

Yeah, No, I don't. I just don't. Haven't caught up yet.

[B]

I mean, I can't explain.

[A]

Why is he so great?

[B]

He was in the military. Young kid, started posting songs on TikTok and became massive. And we went out and opened up for him and it was like the Beatles. I've never seen anything like it. I've never, not since the Beatles, have I ever seen anything like it. Seriously.

[A]

Well, we didn't see the Beatles. We were too young. Even us.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, like, the footage. 30,000, 40,000 kids with no hits, singing every word, hanging on his every. I've just never. From TikTok.

[A]

Well, we'll see in 10 years if he's like the Beatles.

[B]

Yeah, because from your mouth to God's Ears.

[A]

Well, I mean, everybody, look. Music is like. We were just saying, it's so primal.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So, like, he's not the first one to come out and look like the Beatles for 10 minutes, you know, they are who they are because they grew. They were always one step ahead of the audience. Can this guy. Maybe he can. Maybe he's a genius. What do you think of the music? I mean, you described the crowd reaction, but what about the music itself?

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's a taste thing.

[A]

Be honest.

[B]

It's a taste thing.

[A]

Well, there's a dodge. Yeah, right. Okay, so you don't think he's some musical genius.

[B]

No, no, no, it's not that. It's. I mean, he actually. I mean, truth be told, there's a whole lane of music now that sort of falls into the Americana, but actually it's sort of like old school country. Like Tyler Childress, Zach Bryan, and they're writing songs about hard living, people with real struggles.

[A]

Yeah, the guy.

[B]

And it's three chords, four chords. And it's good. It's good. It really is good.

[A]

Yeah, it can be.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, for whatever reason, it's resonating with 16 year olds and 20 year olds and 30 year olds. And I'm down with. I'm here for it. They're writing stories. It's not six second. Six second attention span. We're gonna. You know, we gotta keep. Keep the listener in it. It's like old school verse, chorus that only changes a tiny bit. You know, it's. It's like Americana.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, look, again. No, I'm just saying, like, I don't put any labels on things. A good song is a good song. I mean, you, like. I remember you did something. I have it. I have them all.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it's like they said it was your country album.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I was like, yeah, I see what they were saying. Because they always want to glom on and get some sort of story so they could make a story. But it was just a good album. It was just a Gerald Crowe album. Yeah, there were some songs that were

[B]

geared more towards that.

[A]

Well, there was the. Oh, I love it. The one about the mascara running.

[B]

Yes. Which is like, so that's why I wear waterproof mascara.

[A]

But what's the next line? Cause it don't run like.

[B]

Cause it won't run like.

[A]

Like his daddy.

[B]

Like his daddy. Like his daddy.

[A]

Which is like so close to parody. Yeah, like, that's so close.

[B]

You know who I wrote that with? Brad Paisley.

[A]

Brad, he was sitting here.

[B]

He was, yes, Loved him.

[A]

What a great guy.

[B]

He's one of my favorite people. He is funny. Yes, funny, but also he's not what you think. He doesn't live in that, like.

[A]

No, but he's also a guy who's from that part of the country, you know? Believe me, there are things that the woke could find to hate about him.

[B]

I love the word woke.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Okay, here's my thing. That is a funny thing that came out of my conversation with Kid Rock. I have to call him Bobby, about being woke. Cause he said, you're so woke. And I was like, first of all, quit calling me names. And secondly, maybe I'm woke. I mean, that was an old term that was derived from like slave.

[A]

Well, after that, I think. But it meant being alert to injustice.

[B]

Alert to injustice.

[A]

I'm all down with that.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm not. It just morphed into something that was an eye roll. I didn't do that. They did that.

[B]

Yes, I know. And I told them. I was like, I'm so down with being woke if it means, like, wanting this country to run for all of us.

[A]

Here's a story that was in the news this week. Somebody wrote in the Atlantic. He used to work at the New York Times. Talked about New York Times.

[B]

I love the Atlantic. I don't know how you feel about it, but that's one of my go tos.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, write some.

[B]

It's hard to find. It's hard to find fair pieces written anymore.

[A]

Okay, Exactly. You only get one side of every story.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, go on.

[A]

So he's at the orientation, like for the new people at the New York Times, I think it was. And for some reason they ask. They're asking, going around the room or something, and what do you want for lunch? And he says, chick fil a. And they go. The head of the thing said, no, we don't do that here. They hate gay people. And then all the people in the room start snapping their fingers like they're beatniks in 1950. Like, you know. Yeah, man, it's like west side Story. Or like, it's like Stupid side Story. Like, fuck you. We can't eat Chick fil a. You know what? I will eat Chick fil a and Bud Light. I'll put them together in a beer can. Chicken if I fucking want. That kind of attitude is just so obnoxious.

[B]

I know. And honestly, if you get me started, my publicist will run in here in a minute and like, she's gotta go. I mean, it drives me.

[A]

Why I said it.

[B]

It drives me.

[A]

Yeah, I know, it drives us all crazy.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

By the way, the people, the good people in this country are with us. It was in the paper today. Like the number one concern most people have is extremism. They fucking hate it. They fucking hate.

[B]

Oh, and this is what worries me, between you and I, is that a pot leaf on that guitar on the headstone?

[A]

This is made of hemp.

[B]

It is, yeah.

[A]

This was a gift.

[B]

Okay. You can totally tell I'm hind, right? Cause it's like squirrel, pot leaf.

[A]

What do you.

[B]

No, I was just saying something really astute. It's like, oh, that's amazing.

[A]

It's an amazing thing. Can you really play it?

[B]

Now that sounds really bad.

[A]

Well, it's not tuned. It's made out of hemp.

[B]

Can you smoke it?

[A]

The guitar? It would be an odd way to re gift it, but, you know. Yeah, I guess. I. No, you can't smoke hemp. Hemp doesn't get.

[B]

No, you can't smoke hemp. You can wear it though. No, what I was going to say is my kids come home with the most unbelievable questions. Right. So I grew up in a really small town, three stoplights, cornfields. But we were close to the Boyville Air Force Base, Blytheville, Arkansas Air Force base, which was the biggest air force base in America. And this is, at the end of. This is like 72. I was 10 years old. I think I'm older than you. How old are you?

[A]

No, I'm 68.

[B]

Okay, I'm 62, so. But I'm a super young, like 36 year old. 62.

[A]

Yes, you are. Screw that.

[B]

I remember. I don't know if I came home from school and some kid had said, yeah, the first place they'll bomb in America will be Blyville and we'll all be, you know, incinerated. Well, that's the only time in my childhood I remember ever being afraid of my parents saying, ridiculous, right? Which probably wasn't. But my kids now come home with crazy questions. Will they go to a Christian school? And they come home with bizarre questions that they do. Yes. They come home with questions that, you know, their friends are coming into school with from hearing their parents, you know, and this, this religious support that Trump has is very perplexing. That people in the Christian world believe that he's chosen.

[A]

Literally chosen by God.

[B]

Yes. And who better? Meanwhile, because we have many gay people in our lives and in our family that we love and they Come home and they just, you know, they're funny things that are supposed to be funny jokes, like about gender. Because, you know, it's, this is, these are the things that Trump's fighting against is, it's, it's, it's confounding and it's also, as a parent, it's very. All I can say is when my kid was in 8th grade, we toured Arlington Cemetery, his 8th grade class, and I walked through and I was just thinking, man, these people that fought for what the country's supposed to stand for, for all people, are rolling right now. I mean, I just, I'm scratching my head going, we can all live here.

[A]

I mean, first of all, I don't think Trump is specifically fighting gender stuff. I think he has no, you know, compass at all. So I agree if people, he needs say something anti gender that's inappropriate, like he probably won't slap them down for it. But I don't think, you know, he's a libertarian. A libertarian, A libertine from New York. That's not his thing. I mean, you know, he just got out of a rape trial, for God's sake. He grabs pussies, you know, the Melania thing, whatever the fuck that is. And so I just don't think that's where people are. I'm not most worried about him there. He just came out with his abortion proposal, which is 16 weeks, which is about what they have in Europe sometimes.

[B]

Okay, I have not seen that.

[A]

Yeah, sometimes it's even less than that. Oh, the Republicans are in. They know they're in real trouble because they finally caught the car, the dog caught the car, they got rid of abortion rights and Americans fucking hate it. Men hate it, women hate it. Everybody fucking hates kids. I understand. And they don't want kids they don't wanna have. And they really. This is the Democrats best issue, by far their worst. Biden's age. That's their worst issue. Their best is this. People want someone to fight for. Now they're going after the embryos. Did you see that in Alabama?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I've seen it.

[A]

I mean embryos, like, just like the goo in the petri Dish is an 8 year old.

[B]

We should give, if embryos are alive, we should give them the right to vote.

[A]

Well, we don't give 8 year olds the right to vote, but we give them a lot of right to think they shouldn't have.

[B]

Yes, we do.

[A]

Were you a runaway bride all these three times that you didn't get married, that you were engaged?

[B]

My first engagement I was 21. I was engaged to a born again Christian who partied like it was the end of the world and then repented the next day. And he broke it off, which was really good. And then my second one, I was engaged to a lovely person I'm still good friends with, but we actually, by the time we were getting ready to be married, we were so platonic that it seemed like. And then the third one.

[A]

That's why I never did it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, most people I know that are married are not that happy. So I'm like. But I'm also 62. I mean, I wanna just be with people I like and, you know, I wanna laugh. Sex would be great, but, you know, only if it's something that makes me laugh.

[A]

Right. I mean, it's trickier for women. You know, you gotta have your.

[B]

You know, you gotta wanna get pregnant. Well, especially in a state where I'm getting pregnant.

[A]

But also emotionally, psychologically. Men can, you know, I think, have sex without something being all that serious. Easier. And especially as you get older.

[B]

I can have sex and not.

[A]

Yeah, I guess you can. I forgot who I was talking.

[B]

I'm kidding.

[A]

I'm talking rock and roll.

[B]

You're a rock star. Okay.

[A]

What do you think is the, like, the most rock and roll thing you ever did, Like.

[B]

Because I wouldn't tell you.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. No, probably not. I mean, I've made out with a few people.

[A]

Well, that's not even that. I'm talking about me. When I think of rock.

[B]

Let me just put it to you like this. There is a book in here, but some people are gonna have to die first, so. And it might be me. So I might write the book and

[A]

then let me put to you, like,

[B]

Rock Hudson, you know, just put it

[A]

out together with my publisher. Yeah, he'll take care of the deaths.

[B]

I think my publicist is all over it. She's like, you know, take this down.

[A]

I think you're past the point where anyone will ever get mad at you unless you.

[B]

I have to do it quick, though, before I start forgetting all of it. It does start to forget.

[A]

Your mind moves the furniture. I've known this because. Well, yeah, because, like, I've known this in a way that's undeniable by reading over, like, notebooks or some diary of something I had. And in my mind I had, like, one example. I had a memory of, like, this incident which I would have sworn I would have sold the house on it. That it took place in Washington, D.C. and it took place in London. That was the incident. But when I read over. And somewhere along the way, over the years, my mind moved that from London.

[B]

Did you take notes? Like, did you.

[A]

Well, at the time, I. This was. I mean, this happened 30 years ago, and it was. At the time I was like, take. I did keep, like, a journal. Like, one. Like, every one few months, I would write down, like, what happened in the last three months. I don't know why I was doing that.

[B]

I wish I would have done that.

[A]

Yeah. No, I was a pretty good caveman. I've saved a lot of. I mean, look, See that Diana Ross in the Supremes. That's from an album. Like, when they put posters in albums. Like, I saved that. Like, that Elvis. See that Elvis one? That was a poster in an album.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And you just have them framed and they're like. That means so much more. They're my Mad magazine.

[B]

Yes. Oh, MAD magazine, you know. Yes, yes. That was so off limits when I was a kid, that. And what was the. What was the precursor? Vanity Fair. What was the Lampoon? No, I feel like Graydon Carter was part of.

[A]

Oh, Spy.

[B]

Spy magazine.

[A]

Spy, yeah, Spy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Spy was not like Mad was like broad.

[B]

Mad was Broad.

[A]

Lampoon was the best. Lampoon was truly a brilliant satirical magazine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Spy was arch. It wasn't that Laugh Out Loud song.

[B]

No, it wasn't.

[A]

It was very much more sardonic and

[B]

much more sort of literal. Not literati, but more intellectual.

[A]

It was for mostly Upper east side New Yorkers, you know, it was pretty rarefied air, but they did some great stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, yeah, Vanity Fair.

[B]

People ask me, like, what's the. Like, what's a regret? Or whatever. There's one thing I wish I would have done was to write one sentence at least every day. Because journaling to me meant writing, like, with a project or a song. It just felt like work to me. So I never journaled. I mean, on the odd occasion, I would journal, but I would journal in the context of, oh, I got a record coming out, you know, or record coming up. I need to start thinking about what I'm gonna write about. But I would. Cause I can't remember. And my tour manager or my manager will bring up stuff and I'll go, shit, I don't even remember that. You know, just crazy, weird little things along the way. Makes me mad.

[A]

I'm always fascinated by what the mind remembers because it seems to be just absolutely no rhyme or reason to, like, you have whole swaths of time will have disappeared but one little thing that happened one night, and it wasn't even significant. Well, you'll remember.

[B]

Yeah. My mom has dementia right now, and that is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I mean, I've known people, but not somebody as close to me as my mom is.

[A]

Because they don't know you.

[B]

Yeah. This is. I mean, it's just weird between Thanksgiving and Christmas. But what happens is she is stuck in a moment where she talks a ton, but it relates to a specific time that none of us really understand. She talks about the people in the group, and the group is going to be. We think it has something to do maybe with her relationship to who she was in our church, but it's weird, but it always comes out in that context. And her language, her vocabulary is really limited to that specific story. Now, I'm sure it's not that way with all people who have dementia, but. But the brain, it's terrifying.

[A]

Well, you know Glen Campbell.

[B]

Yes. Before, did you know Glenn?

[A]

Oh, no, No. I mean, no, I did not. I mean, you started laughing.

[B]

I'm like. Well, because, like, were you guys, like, to.

[A]

No, no, no. I mean, our paths were very far from crossing. He was on TV when I was a kid.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Like, he had. Like.

[B]

He had a TV show.

[A]

Yeah. Back in the day when they gave singers, like, variety out and you had to do sketches.

[B]

No, I was born in the wrong period.

[A]

Like a Wichita Lineman.

[B]

And here comes Evander Carlisle.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, stuff like that.

[B]

Welcome, Nipsey.

[A]

So he was already, you know, Rhinestone Cowboy. I love those. That was when I was first listening to the radio. Galveston, Wichita Lineman. Gentle on My Mind.

[B]

Oh, gentle on My mind Wichita Lineman. That was just one of the greatest of all time.

[A]

Get On My Mind Lyrically, what a. What a. What a song.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that one is a killer. Right? Poetry. That was Jim Webb.

[B]

Jim Webb, yeah. He also did a lot of great stuff. I got to meet him.

[A]

Yeah. What? It's the same guy?

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say another guy who tried to just, you

[B]

know, try to pick me up. No.

[A]

Why? Hope? Blame.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Not at all. No. Just amazing. Like, I literally was like, the student. Like, oh, my God, I love you so much.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But anyway, Glen Campbell would be like, he doesn't know where he is and who he's talking to. And then you get on stage and the song, like a rhinestone. And there's something, obviously, music. Again, the primal thing. When you hear the song, it triggers something in the brain. That it. I mean, that's really amazing that somebody in that case could do a concert.

[B]

Yes. And what's weird about it too, is to have it be so rote and then to walk off and not know. My mom is an amazing singer and we grew up singing always. And last time I was home, I got out the Great Book, which is a Reader's Digest great book, and played everything from Alfie to Alfie. And my mom doesn't really stand so much.

[A]

Why is she singing?

[B]

I'm sitting next to the piano, sitting next to me on the piano bench, and she's singing just like she always did. And then she grabs the piano and she stands up and starts really singing. And I'm just like, oh, there she is. That's my mom. She is.

[A]

Okay, but why Alfie?

[B]

No, Every song from that, like Burt Bacharach, it's such a great song. The camera sign, all the. All the stuff that. Oh, Burt Bacharach, I mean, please.

[A]

That's when you.

[B]

When people gone by. I mean, she was singing like everything I played. She knew all the words. She even sang Moon river, you know, that's just like her old self. It's weird music. Just like.

[A]

Who wrote Moon River? Mancini Mancini. Henry Mancini. Andy Williams, I think. Had to be. That's even before my time.

[B]

Yes, he did.

[A]

But when people say, you know, three chord rock and roll, I always think, yeah, I guess there's some songs that are good with three chords. I'm not. But give me Burt Bachrach, who always

[B]

has Any day of the week.

[A]

Any Day Now.

[B]

You mean any day of the week.

[A]

But the song Any Day Now.

[B]

Oh, Any Day now. No.

[A]

Yes. You just sang it. That's bur. Yes.

[B]

Any Day Now.

[A]

Yes. Covered by Elvis. Covered by Luther Vandross. Any Day Now.

[B]

Yes. Okay. As soon as I walk out of

[A]

here, I'm gonna go like Shazam.

[B]

Or Spotify. Play Me Any Day now at spurt.

[A]

Bachrach. When it was early. I know. Great song.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

But always very unpredictable. And again, I'm not a musician or anything like that, but I've seen the charts and it's not three chords.

[B]

You want to hear something funny or

[A]

any chord you ever heard of.

[B]

I did a gig where I got to sing. I got to sing. One less bell to answer hold me

[A]

One less egg to fry we should take it on the road One last man to look up after I should

[B]

be happy but oh, I should is cry.

[A]

That's the fifth Dimension.

[B]

Yeah. Yes, it was. Yes, it was.

[A]

They Were so great.

[B]

So I got to sing that. And he was playing the piano. Bert was. And he stopped and he's like, you don't want to back phrase. Let's just sing the melody as it is. And I was just like, yes, sir. I mean, he was very not rude.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Just, this is the way the arc and the melody is. Is written that way. And this is how it works. And I got to sing with him after that, but I was like, he's Burt Bachrach.

[A]

Yeah. And he deserves that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And yeah.

[B]

I literally was like, I will not back phrase. I will say I don't even know what that is, but you can't go one ba dou and s. Well, I

[A]

think he made a good one. I think he made a good call, I gotta say.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Otherwise, I just.

[B]

Lady Gaga.

[A]

I could see a whole video of that version if I could. That is really. But crazy. What are some of the songs that, like. I know musicians all like. And of course, you are a great coverer of songs. What are some of the other ones you cover? Oh, Solitaire. Why do I have that?

[B]

Ah, that's a great song.

[A]

Yeah. The Carpenters. Oh, it must have been on the.

[B]

It was on the Carpenter's covers. Who wrote that song?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I want to say Paul Williams. You remember that guy?

[A]

He wrote a lot of them. Yeah, he wrote a couple.

[B]

I think he did write it.

[A]

Maybe he wrote a couple of those. He was very. When I was.

[B]

And I'll tell you, another cover we did was that Eric Carman song.

[A]

Oh, I think I know what you mean.

[B]

Eric Harmon.

[A]

Yeah. I know it's not.

[B]

Yeah, okay. It's in there. It's in there. This is what scares me.

[A]

No, no, I mean, honestly.

[B]

Disc full.

[A]

Disc full.

[B]

Yes. No, I know.

[A]

There's no shame in not remembering Eric carmen. Excuse me, Mr. Carmen. It was a great rush. We loved it. That's why we remember it so fondly. But we don't. But we can't. Yeah, I can blame marijuana. What's your experience?

[B]

No, I need to light it up, so maybe I'll remember something.

[A]

No, but what were you gonna say about it? Oh, you covered that.

[B]

Covered it. And it was such a good song.

[A]

What else did you cover? Oh, you covered I Want yout Back. Why do I have that? Was that on a soundtrack or something?

[B]

No, that was on 100 miles to Memphis.

[A]

Oh, 100, right. Oh, really? Right.

[B]

Okay, twice.

[A]

100 miles to Memphis.

[B]

I can remember being a kid.

[A]

Did you do that? As a tribute. I just. I'm.

[B]

No, I just did it when we were getting ready to cut something, and the band was like, oh, my gosh. You got to put that on the record. I was like, oh. And then I did it.

[A]

This guy, Kid Rock. I'm back to Kid Rock.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

His version of Sugar Pie, Honey Buns. Do you know?

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

No, you don't.

[B]

On what?

[A]

I don't know his 21st century albums. Like, when he first came out, I was not into it. I mean, I was never into the brash personality. Full on. Although I love him, he was here also. Looks like everybody, you know?

[B]

Yeah, I know. My entire, like, Rolodex was here, and he's a real.

[A]

Like, we both. Okay, he is who he is, but just separate that from the music. If we can do it with Wagner, we can do it with Kid Rock. Yeah, okay.

[B]

Wagner, Kid Rock.

[A]

Yeah. It's just very similar. And I'm sure Kid Rock would take that as a compliment. He'd be like, but just the music. Like, there's no. I love his records. There's no music that, like, takes me back to being 16. That is his genius. Like, he has so many songs where, you know, your girlfriend's on your shoulders and, you know, you're listening to AC DC or whatever the references are, and the first kiss. Like, he has so many songs that if you want to get back into that feeling. Good. Like that kind of good.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He is my boy.

[B]

He does do that. When I worked with him on that song Picture, I came home at Christmas time, and I was telling my parents, been working with this guy named Bobby Richie, Kid Rock. He's such a nice person. Got a great family, a lot like ours. He's very close to his family. And I said, he's really huge. He had this song called Cowboy, and like, oh, we'll play us some of his stuff. We'd love to hear some of it.

[A]

No, you wouldn't. So

[B]

they bought the cd, and the very last song, we get almost to the last song, and I was like, that's good. That's all you need to hear. Because the last song is called Black Pussy, I believe is what it was called. Am I not sure it was. Yes. And so I did a couple of gigs with them, one of which was in St. Louis. And my whole family came and they watched me play. And then they came backstage, and I was like, okay, well, y' all can go now. No, we want to stay for some of Kid Rock. And I'm thinking, hey, Dancing girls, you know, the whole. That they enjoyed about four or five songs.

[A]

I've heard that his concerts are like Trump rallies. I mean, with the flags and everything, you know, look, again, not for me. Don't get it. Can't ever convince you Kid Rock to come to my side. I know that would be futile and stupid. So let's just not talk about what we don't agree with.

[B]

Yeah, you just do what you do

[A]

with all of your relatives and get along. Exactly. That's what. I'm always making that comparison. In your family, you would never ask someone to just not take down their Confederate flag, not be who they are.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[A]

And the three most important words in any relationship are not I love you. They're let it go.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[A]

Well, maybe I oversold that, but let it go is very important.

[B]

Let it go. Or maybe four words. Shut the fuck up. No, I'm kidding.

[A]

Well, if you're at the place where you have to tell someone to shut the fuck up. You know, that's one good thing I feel about getting older. That I learned along the way is like, you don't waste time. You know, where you can tell where it's.

[B]

You know where it's going.

[A]

Yeah. And what could possibly work and what couldn't. And there's no use throwing good love after bad. There's another title.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

You're good. Oh, I know. You're a blue jay. You're gathering for your nest culture vulture. You can have it. It would be an honor. It would be an honor. And I guess I should let you go, but.

[B]

Oh my God, so much fun. I love hanging out with you, man.

[A]

So much. Cheryl, grow my rock.

[B]

We need to hang out when the cameras aren't on. It's okay, cuz we have many things to talk about.

[A]

And yet it would be no different, would it?

[B]

Actually, no, it would not be.

[A]

That's what I'm trying to do with this show. Few more episodes, but I'll do it with anytime.

[B]

Maybe a little weed. If I'm not singing. That's the, you know, random. All right, so anyway, that was fun. Thanks for having me.

[A]

Pleasure.

[B]

You're a mint shot. Random

[A]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless. Way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you. If you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

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