EP 10 - The Quarterback and The Con Artist

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Johnathan Walton Media
Episode: EP 10 - The Quarterback and The Con Artist
Release Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Johnathan Walton

Overview

This gripping episode chronicles the harrowing legal and emotional odyssey of former NFL quarterback Eric Kramer, who was scammed, manipulated, and financially devastated by Courtney Baird—an accomplished con artist. The episode dives deep into the mechanics of the scam, systemic failures in the legal and conservatorship systems, and the Herculean efforts of those who fought beside Eric for justice. Against a backdrop of legal red tape and insidious manipulation, the episode explores themes of vulnerability, perseverance, and the struggle to rebuild while exposing how systems meant to protect can themselves enable predation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Legal Battles and Systemic Failures (02:29–07:44)

• Malpractice Lawsuit Against Conservatorship Attorney:
  • Eric Kramer and Anna Durgan sue the conservatorship attorney for malpractice, uncovering handwritten notes that reveal the attorney’s awareness of Courtney Baird's unauthorized theft and suspicious behavior.
    • Anna Durgan (04:28): “Courtney is still getting money without authorization, exclamation point, regardless of conservatorship.”
  • Lisa McCarley, conservatorship attorney expert, castigates the sloppy and unethical conduct of the court-appointed counsel.
    • Lisa McCarley (06:04): "His conduct in this case fell below the standard of what a court appointed counsel or any attorney should do... You are not protecting people if you are leaving them in the care and custody of their abusers."
• Settlement: After five grueling years, the case settles, but the payout is covered by the attorney’s insurer, not the attorney himself.

2. Criminal Case Against Courtney Baird (08:47–16:28)

• Initial Criminal Investigation:
  • Detective Dave Lynchite pushes for criminal charges against Baird, but after his retirement, momentum stalls. A narrative surfaces—unsupported by facts—that Eric is retaliating because of a bogus domestic violence accusation.
• Persistence Pays Off:
  • Anna Durgan’s relentless advocacy triggers the reassignment of the case to a new detective, who sees its merit and ensures it’s brought to a new DA, leading to Baird’s arrest and charges for grand theft, identity theft, and forgery.
    • Anna Durgan (15:02): “He goes, there’s evidence. We feel this is a very strong case. We don't understand why the DA didn't file it the first time.”

3. Roadblocks in Prosecution and the Toll of the Legal Process (16:28–24:35)

• Courtney Baird’s Tactics:
  • Released on a $670,000 bail paid by her family, Baird changes lawyers multiple times, often using public defenders despite significant financial resources being funneled into her bail and restitution.
  • Judge and DAs downplay restitution and Eric’s losses, highlighting the difficulty of prosecuting financial crimes. Restitution awarded is only a fraction of Eric's actual losses.
    • Eric Kramer (31:30): “It took hundreds of thousands of dollars, and everybody had to do this hearing and that hearing, and who paid for it all? Me.”
• Annulment vs. Divorce:
  • Anna Durgan convinces a hesitant Eric that seeking an annulment, not a divorce, affirms his lack of consent due to incapacitation.
    • Anna Durgan (23:08): “No one’s explaining to him the way I am... If you go for divorce, what you’re telling the judge… is that you were okay with Courtney and all those charges.”
  • Total cost to annul the marriage: $175,000.

4. Courtroom Frustrations and a Hollow Victory (24:35–37:47)

• Courtroom Realities:
  • Despite clear evidence and a guilty plea to four felonies, the judge delivers a lenient sentence (180 days in jail, with only about 60 days served) and expresses more empathy for Baird than for Eric.
    • Lisa McCarley (32:58): “It was like the Twilight zone. I had never seen anything like it... The judge treated Courtney like it was her daughter, like there was, like, a love and a concern there... no regard for you whatsoever.”
• Restitution Discrepancy:
  • Only $170,000 is officially recognized; Eric and Anna meticulously document nearly $300,000 in theft, but the DA excludes unprovable expenditures, largely those masked as grocery or pharmacy shopping.
• Exploiting the System:
  • Baird’s ability to obtain a public defender despite bail and restitution paid by family is seen as another scam. The lack of scrutiny frustrates everyone involved.
    • Lisa McCarley (35:18): “Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam. This is a whole other fraud happening here.”

5. Reflections on Broken Systems & Moving Forward (37:47–48:58)

• Systemic Critique:
  • Eric and legal experts lament that the very systems meant to protect vulnerable adults often fail them, sometimes compounding their victimization.
    • Eric Kramer (39:21): “It wasn’t just from Courtney Baird… it’s all these other people that also took advantage.”
• Resilience, Guilt, and Recovery:
  • After a suicide attempt and the subsequent scam, Eric finds himself cured of depression—possibly due to his brain injury. He apologizes to his family and friends at Thanksgiving, acknowledging the pain his ordeal caused.
• A Silver Lining: Eric and Anna’s Love Story:
  • Amid the chaos, Eric and Anna fall in love, ultimately becoming a couple and dedicating themselves to advocacy work to reform conservatorship law and support the mentally ill.
    • Eric Kramer (43:48): “The full force of Ana's character and who she is as a person was on display over time so many times that to me it was like, what are you doing? Why are you not pursuing her?”
• Advocacy and Education:
  • Eric is now giving talks on mental health awareness and suicide prevention, emphasizing the importance of early intervention and persistence in the face of adversity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lisa McCarley (06:04): “You are not protecting people if you are leaving them in the care and custody of their abusers.”
• Eric Kramer (31:30): “It took hundreds of thousands of dollars, and everybody had to do this hearing and that hearing, and who paid for it all? Me.”
• Lisa McCarley (32:58): “The judge treated Courtney like it was her daughter... It was stunning for me to witness.”
• Eric Kramer (39:21): “It wasn’t just from Courtney Baird... it’s all these other people that also took advantage.”
• Eric Kramer (43:48): “To me it was like, what are you doing? Why are you not pursuing her?”
• Jonathan Walton (48:08): “You gotta fight and you have to be persistent and you have to push back. Especially when you’re dealing with a con artist and a system... falling for the con.”
• Anna Durgan (48:28): “If you don’t care enough to contact [the authorities] every single week and be a, you know, a thorn on their side, they’re not going to care about your case.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:29] – Malpractice case against conservatorship attorney: revelation of ignored red flags
• [07:44] – Settlement of malpractice suit; insurance payout
• [08:47] – Slowdown of criminal case after detective’s retirement
• [14:24] – Fortuitous reassignment to a new detective
• [16:04] – Felony charges filed against Courtney Baird
• [24:23] – The costly battle for annulment: $175,000
• [31:30] – Eric on legal costs and feeling fleeced by the system
• [32:58] – Lisa McCarley on the bizarrely sympathetic judge and hollow courtroom victory
• [35:18] – Exploiting the public defender system; another “legal scam”
• [39:21] – Eric’s realization: multiple betrayals, not just by the con artist
• [42:03] – Recovery: gunshot injury results in the end of Eric’s depression
• [43:48] – Eric and Anna’s love story begins
• [45:23] – Eric and Anna’s advocacy: plans for system reform
• [46:26] – Eric’s public speaking on suicide prevention and depression recovery
• [48:08] – Jonathan’s call to action: persistence against systems and con artists

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Conclusion

Tone: Candid, deeply personal, critical of institutional failures but marked by stubborn hope and the triumph of restored lives.

Eric Kramer's journey from NFL quarterback to scam survivor stands as both a cautionary tale and a beacon of resilience. The episode makes plain the need for tenacity and support systems in navigating broken legal bureaucracies, while also celebrating the possibility of redemption and even unexpected love. Ultimately, the story exposes the urgent necessity for legal reform and unflinching advocacy for the vulnerable.

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Actionable Takeaways

• Documentation and Advocacy: Victims must persistently document and push authorities for action; the system rarely works without pressure.
• Reform Needed: Current laws and systems fail to adequately protect mentally incapacitated adults; involvement of medical expertise in legal judgments is crucial.
• Community & Connection: The recovery from trauma is possible with support and persistence—sometimes even leading to new avenues of happiness and purpose.
• Mental Health: Early intervention and honest communication about mental health struggles can save lives.

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For support with depression or suicidal thoughts, call or text 988 for free counseling.

Transcript

[Jonathan Walton]

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[Jonathan Walton]

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Back to those who have served and still do. Learn more now@lowe's.com Military 10% discount can't be combined with another offer Exclusions Terms and conditions apply. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions details@lowe's.com terms subject to change this series deals with troubling topics including suicide, drug overdosing and dependent adult abuse. If you or someone you know is struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, call or text 988 right now and speak with a counselor for free. Previously on the Quarterback and the Con Artist Took us a while to get all the wrongs righted in this case for Eric. And criminal defense attorney Todd Melnick fights really hard to get the bogus domestic violence charge that con artist Courtney Baird fabricates dropped. Well, we were pushing the case to trial and I knew that her lawyer was never going to let her testify. She didn't want her to perjure herself and make things worse for her herself because she was caught lying saying the daughter was with her when the things were being thrown at her. And then in earlier she said no, she was alone.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

She was clearly going to be impeached.

[Jonathan Walton]

By statements that she had made. Eric was obviously going to testify. At that point the prosecution did not want to go through with the trial. At this point, Eric is no longer conserved and he and Anna go after that conservatorship attorney who appeared to just disregard the theft Courtney had committed and admitted to. So Eric Sues that conservatorship attorney for malpractice and forces him to answer for what he's done in revealing depositions that are as eye opening as they are unbelievable.

[Anna Durgan]

Did you find Courtney credible? Answer yes. You found her to be credible. I mean, a lot of that. Is that a gut feeling? But there's nothing that stuck out to you? Like, okay, this is a little fishy, or this seems odd or nothing like that? No, she seemed totally credible.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Durgan]

And then there was a whole fight for five months over confidentiality.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Right. He didn't want you to tell anyone.

[Anna Durgan]

Didn't want to tell anybody.

[Jonathan Walton]

I'm Jonathan Walton and this is the quarterback and the con artist. Episode 10 There's a lot more legal theft than illegal theft going on.

[Anna Durgan]

Just so you know. This is through Eric's lawsuit against the court appointed counsel for legal malpractice. It's called discovery.

[Jonathan Walton]

Anna Durgan is sifting through the court appointed conservatorship attorney's handwritten notes. Now that she was able to get her hands on as part of the discovery process in the malpractice lawsuit Eric files in Los Angeles county in June of 2019.

[Anna Durgan]

He wrote in his notes, this is note number 15. Chronology is the biggest problem, per Judge Johnson. So this is the judge that's telling the court appointed counsel and Eric that chronology, how everything happened is the biggest problem. Looks like Courtney took advantage and then got married. Courtney is still getting money without authorization, exclamation point, regardless of conservatorship.

[Conservatorship Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Wow.

[Anna Durgan]

That's his own handwritten notes.

[Eric Kramer]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Walton]

I find this all so bizarre. I mean, on the one hand, this court appointed conservatorship attorney says in open court that Eric is competent and does not need to be conserved. And he sends an email threatening to go after Anna and Eric's family for not only getting Eric into a conservatorship, but also for monitoring Eric's bank accounts to keep tabs on Courtney's theft. But then on the other hand, in this attorney's own notes to himself, he writes that Courtney is still getting money without authorization.

[Conservatorship Attorney Lisa McCarley]

You know, to me, there was a lot of these red flags out there. The court appointed attorney intentionally ignored, intentionally excused.

[Jonathan Walton]

That's conservatorship and probate attorney Lisa McCarley. Again, she's brought on as an expert witness in Eric's malpractice case against that court appointed conservatorship attorney, who always appears, appeared to be siding with con artist Courtney Baird.

[Conservatorship Attorney Lisa McCarley]

The court appointed attorney did not do his Duties. Correctly, his conduct in this case fell below the standard of what a court appointed counsel or any attorney should do. And you don't ignore criminal activity being perpetuated against a person facing conservatorship. You don't ignore medical reports. To me, that was like, how in the world could you pretend that you have greater expertise in evaluating a person than a doctor who's been trained to.

[Jonathan Walton]

Do that, who's been treating Eric.

[Conservatorship Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Exactly. I mean, it was just absurd. You are not protecting people if you are leaving them in the care and custody of their abusers. So all of the things that the court appointed attorney was doing which was contrary to the spirit, or what I like to call like the beauty and symmetry of the law, the red flags were everywhere.

[Jonathan Walton]

At first, this court appointed conservatorship attorney seems determined to defend the malpractice suit Eric files against him and even acts as his own expert witness in a motion his attorney files to dismiss Eric's lawsuit, which a judge denies. But after five long years and multiple hearings and depositions, this court appointed conservatorship attorney offers to settle, agreeing to pay Eric six figures to drop his malpractice case. But that money doesn't come from this court appointed attorney himself. It comes from his insurance company.

[Conservatorship Attorney Lisa McCarley]

They paid money in order to avoid a potential bigger judgment. And you know, the potential of a, you know, humiliating situation where a judge may finally, like the arbitrator may react the way that I react, which is what were you thinking siding with the person facing criminal charges? And she's admitting that she took this money and she's admitting that it was without Eric's permission.

[Jonathan Walton]

Anna Durgan agrees.

[Anna Durgan]

Had he listened to the family, had he listened to the detective, had he listened to Dr. Tomaszewski?

[Eric Kramer]

Someone should have read Dr. Tomaszewski's medical report.

[Jonathan Walton]

Eric Kramer.

[Eric Kramer]

You do have to call Lynchite. You do have to read the report and call Dr. Tomashevsky. You do have to talk to people within Eric's family. You cannot have Courtney B. In for any reason in the same interview as the person you're representing. You don't represent Courtney Baird. If she's there, she has to leave.

[Jonathan Walton]

While Eric triumphs in the malpractice case against this court appointed conservatorship attorney, the criminal case against Courtney Baird is another story. Detective Dave Lynchite, who investigates Courtney's theft and her scam marriage to Eric, is adamantly recommending she be charged with multiple crimes. Yes, this case is unusual, and yes, it might be a little tricky to lay out for a jury. But that's all par for the course in Detective Lynchite's mind. If you're a crook and you committed a crime, you're going to get what you deserve. Working financial crimes in LA County, I mean, I was dealing with doctors and lawyers and, you know, I arrested all kinds of people. I wasn't arresting the gang banger on the street. I was arresting the guy in the.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Suit and the tie. The criminal mastermind behind the gang banger industry.

[Jonathan Walton]

Yeah. Sadly though, Detective Lynnschit retires in January of 2017 and the criminal case against Courtney Baird starts dying on the vine fast. Because the prosecutor does not want to charge Courtney with a crime. And the new investigator assigned to the case after Lynchite retires sends an email to Anna Durgan on October 10, 2018.

[Commercial Voice]

Writing, quote, based on the conversations with everybody involved, I expect the DA will decline to prosecute. I'm sure several reasons will be listed, included Mr. Kramer marrying Ms. Baird and him only wanting to pursue the matter after his arrest for domestic violence.

[Jonathan Walton]

This new and bizarre narrative seems to have sprung up out of nowhere. This idea that Eric is only going after Courtney Baird criminally because she got him charged with domestic violence. And that since they were married, even though we all know by now that marriage was a whole other scam, they can't charge a wife with taking money from her husband. But none of that makes any sense because the criminal investigation into Courtney's theft actually began before she coerced him into marrying her. I mean, at that point in December of 2016, Eric Kramer is mentally incapacitated and has the brain of a six year old and does whatever anyone tells him to do. He could not legally consent to getting married in the first place. But all of that doesn't seem to matter. Life is full of unknowns, things you can't rely on. And with so much at stake, especially when it comes to, you know, why leave anything to chance? Why not go in with confidence from the get? That's where Rugiet's Golong comes in. This isn't just another ED pill. It's a confidence game changer. Go Long combines two doctor trusted medications in one dual action formula to help you get hard and go the distance. Plus effects last for up to 36 hours.

[Eric Kramer]

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[Jonathan Walton]

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[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

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[Anna Durgan]

The case is closed with the da. They're not going to charge Courtney now because it would seem like it's retaliation. Because now I'm being told the case is closed.

[Jonathan Walton]

But Anna Durgan isn't giving up. She's shocked. That detective is being so dismissive and she's more determined than ever to prove that what Courtney Baer did to Eric Kramer is in fact a crime that needs to be prosecuted. And Anna Durgan doubles down. You know, 18th century German writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe once penned, at the moment of true commitment, the entire universe conspires to assist you. Well, call it the entire universe or God or just a really fortuitous twist of fate, but the next email that Anna sends to that detective triggers a chain of spectacular events that breathes new life into the nearly dead criminal case against Courtney Baird. When Ana hits send on her very last email to that detective in December of 2018, he's not there to receive it.

[Anna Durgan]

I get an out of office reply that he's on leave. And then that's how I got the different detective to reach out to.

[Jonathan Walton]

So basically the previous detective's out of office reply sends Ana the contact info of another detective to reach out to while he's away. So Ana emails that other detective immediately.

[Anna Durgan]

He was very kind and reached out to us.

[Jonathan Walton]

And when that new detective actually starts looking into the Eric Kramer case. He is stunned that Courtney Baird isn't being charged with a crime and he plans to do something about it.

[Anna Durgan]

I was very appreciative of that new detective wanting to pursue this case. He goes, there's evidence. We feel this is a very strong case. We don't understand why the DA didn't file it. The first time we want to do is remove it from that DA and get it in front of another DA.

[Jonathan Walton]

There are, in fact, more than 900 deputy district attorneys working for the LA County DA's office. And what one considers to be be a weak case, another might completely disagree.

[Anna Durgan]

Another great detective can very clearly see everything that was happening and was, you know, pushing hard as well to get the d. A to file charges.

[Jonathan Walton]

Eventually, the case lands on the desk of an entirely new deputy district attorney who actually ends up charging Courtney Baird with a slew of felonies, including grand theft, identity theft, and forgery, among others.

[Anna Durgan]

She was reluctant, at least that's what had told me. But in the end, she did charge Courtney with 12 felony counts, and the bail amount was $670,000. She was charged on February 7, 2020, arrested on February 10, 2020, and released on February 12, 2020, on a $670,000 bail.

[Jonathan Walton]

Courtney's family ends up covering her $670,000 bail. If she skips town at this point or doesn't show up for court, they're on the hook for all that money. At Courtney's arraignment hearing on February 26, 2020, the Deputy DA tries to temper Eric and Anna's expectations. Eric's son Dylan is there too, and they are all shocked when they hear that deputy DA say, you know, eric.

[Anna Durgan]

These types of cases are very hard to prove, and Courtney's most likely not going to do any jail time. So I just wanted to set your expectations of these types of cases. I've done a lot of these before. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, eric, it's good that you're well off, so restitution's not that important. Important, basically giving the criminal carte blanche. It's okay that you stole. Don't worry about it. That's the message that she's telling us. Then I ask, okay, I'm a bit confused. You had Courtney's admission under a recorded statement by the detective. Why didn't you guys charge her? Well, you know, Eric called twice saying not to press charges. I go, he was incapacitated and only telling you, Telling lingshy exactly what she told Eric. To say Eric was incapacitated.

[Jonathan Walton]

So, needless to say, the criminal proceeding against Courtney Baird is off to a rocky start. And to make matters so much worse, one month later, In March of 2020, the pandemic hits. The White House coronavirus task force tells people to avoid bars, restaurants, and groups of more than 10 people. They call it, quote, 15 days to slow the spread. States soon start closing schools and announcing stay at home orders.

[Anna Durgan]

Stay at home, stay home, stay safe.

[Jonathan Walton]

Quite simply, stay at home. And in the LA county criminal court system, non violent crimes like the ones Courtney Baird committed are relegated to the bottom of the list. It was around this time in early 2020, that Eric Kramer first reaches out to me for help and advice after seeing news coverage of me bringing my con artist kicking and screaming to justice. When Marion Smith showed up at LA's criminal courthouse today, she was sporting a pair of crutches. But Jonathan Walton says, save your sympathy. We knew she was going to pull something today, but to show up in crutches? Keep in mind, police had initially turned me away, telling me what my con artist did to me was not a crime and that there was nothing they could do. At that point. I pulled an Anna Durgin and relentlessly fought back, eventually getting the con artist who scammed me out of close to $100,000 convicted at trial and sentenced to five years behind bars. Watching the judge that day, the Honorable Craig Veals, lay into my con artist during the sentencing hearing was such a profoundly healing experience.

[Eric Kramer]

She is an inveterate thief and someone.

[Jonathan Walton]

Who is, I think, classically referred to as a sociopath. She showed no remorse, no sense of.

[Commercial Announcer]

Attrition of any sort whatsoever. While we were hearing testimony about how.

[Jonathan Walton]

Grievously impacted the victim in this case, Mr. Walton was, sadly, the judge in Eric Kramer's case would turn out to be a lot less stringent with Courtney Baird. Anyway, I meet up with Eric and Anna and attend several court hearings where I lay eyes on Courtney Baird for the first time. And I gotta say, she looks meek, she looks frail, and she looks innocent. She's got this whole poor little me vibe on fleek. But as with every professional con artist, mine included, what they look like and what they are are two different things entirely. This is a woman who insinuates herself into Eric's life while he's recovering from a gunshot wound to the head and is mentally incapacitated. This is a woman who unabashedly moves into his house and starts stealing his money under the guise of taking care of him. She even swipes money from a memorial fund established for Eric's deceased son, Griffin. She then tries to get Eric while he's incapacitated to buy her a house. A couple different times. And years later, when Eric suddenly regains his mental faculties and tells Courtney to leave, she refuses and calls 91 1, fabricating a story that he assaulted her. And then she goes on to convince an LA county judge to award her $20,000 to move out of his house and $10,000 in attorney's fees. And she tells Eric through her lawyer the only way she'll grant him a divorce from the marriage she tricked him into while he had the brain capacity of a six year old. And the only way she'll agree to drop her bogus domestic violence claim is if Eric agrees to give her a substantial amount of money. She's also asking for nearly $12,000 a month in alimony from here on in. All of a sudden, this starts to feel like a shakedown. I reached out to Courtney Baer to get her side of this story, and I've still not heard back at this point. Anna Durgin convinces Eric that what he needs is an annulment, not a divorce. In legal terms, getting an annulment is kind of like hitting an undo button. It tells the court this marriage should have never happened in the first place. But Eric is reluctant. He's still not 100% there yet mentally at this point in July of 2018. And he tells Ana, it's going to.

[Anna Durgan]

Cost me another $50,000 if I go for an annulment versus a divorce. I don't want to spend the $50,000.

[Jonathan Walton]

This is frugal Eric coming back.

[Anna Durgan]

Eric, this is a true Eric coming back now. So I have to. Again, no one's explaining to him the way I am explaining it to him. So I said, okay, Eric, if you go for divorce, what you're telling the judge and everybody that you were okay with Courtney and all those charges that she did against your account, Are you okay with that? He goes, absolutely not. She stole my money. I didn't know anything about it. I go, so then you have to spend the $50,000 and go for annulment, because that way it tells the judge that you did not understand what was transpiring, which you have medical records. We all know you didn't understand, and therefore it's. You are not authorizing those charges that Courtney stole from you. His processing was still very slow at that time. So then he went for the annulment, because I know him. He's more about principal than anything else. So he'll spend the extra money, which he did. It ended up costing him to annul the marriage. $175,000.

[Eric Kramer]

Oh my God.

[Anna Durgan]

Because why? The judges again awarded Courtney the bullshit that she was asking for.

[Jonathan Walton]

And keep in mind, judges need a compelling legal reason to grant an annulment. You can't just get an annulment by asking for one. There's actually an annulment trial held where neurologist Dr. Tomaszewski testifies that, and Eric's son Dylan, his aunt Patrice, and his childhood friend Anna Durgan testify too. Courtney Baird, on the other hand, is a no show at that trial. And the judge in this case finds she took advantage of a mentally incapacitated Eric Kramer to marry him in secret while stealing from him for years. And that judge grants an annulment based on Courtney's fraud and Eric's mental incapacitation. So now, in the eyes of the law, that marriage never happened. But the actual criminal case against Courtney Baird moves through the Los Angeles court system a lot slower because Courtney strategically changes attorneys seven times, and each time she gets a new attorney. The the court kicks her case down the calendar so her new attorney has time to prepare. Her fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh attorneys are all public defenders working on Courtney's case free of charge on the taxpayer's bill. But eventually, after four and a half years and dozens of hearings and motions and continuances, on June 25, 2024, Courtney Baird suddenly decides to plead guilty to four of the 12 felony counts against her dependent adult abuse, grand theft, identity theft, and forgery. You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line. Then the line starts to rise. You realize it's not the horizon at all. It's a 30 foot tall wall of water. And it's racing straight toward you. What would you do on the day after Christmas? In 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. Tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Odds Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wonder Plus. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you Ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Jonathan Walton]

Keep in mind she steals nearly $300,000 from Eric and costs him another 400,000 in legal fees to get that scam marriage annulled and to get those bogus domestic violence charges against him that she made up dropped. Not to mention what that horrendous conservatorship costs Eric too. But the court only recognizes $170,000 in theft.

[Anna Durgan]

And here's the disappointing part that Eric and I spent two years creating the spreadsheet and sending it off to the detective and obviously the detectives and turning it over to the DA. So there's about $300,000 worth of theft and the district attorney's office comes back.

[Jonathan Walton]

With 164,000 because the Deputy DA refuses to include all the money. Courtney charges up at various supermarkets and pharmacies using Eric's credit cards, mistakenly thinking she's buying food and supplies for Eric, when in reality she's mostly buying Visa gift cards and using them like cash.

[Anna Durgan]

And that's why the DA's office never included any charge for Vons, Ralph's, Whole Foods, Gelson's, whatever, because they couldn't prove it. I said if you guys would have just asked me, you would have looked as much as I did. Every charge before and after those food, Ralphs, Vons, whatever, you would see restaurants, four or five charges for restaurants, four or five charges for restaurants before and after. There was no food being bought in.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

The room at the supermarket because they.

[Anna Durgan]

Would go out to eat every single meal.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

So the supermarket and the cvs, those were just ways for her to get gift cards.

[Anna Durgan]

Correct.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

To use that card.

[Anna Durgan]

But the DA never included that, as I think there was like close to almost 30 or $40,000 worth of grocery stores.

[Conservatorship Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Wow.

[Jonathan Walton]

And to everyone's surprise, myself included, Courtney's family, who covers her $670,000 bail, also comes up with $170,000 cash to pay Eric restitution. Both the judge and Courtney's public defender, with mouths agape in open court, exclaim they've never seen this amount. Amount of restitution paid in one fell swoop before, and they think Eric should be thrilled and grateful for it. Only he's not, because Eric's out more than $700,000 at this point, and he's been through eight long years of hell because of what Courtney Baer did to him. So $170,000 hardly makes up for it. Justice, in Eric Kramer's mind seems anything but just.

[Eric Kramer]

It took hundreds of thousands of dollars, and everybody had to do this hearing and that hearing, and who paid for it all? Me.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

It's like, yeah, it's another scam.

[Eric Kramer]

Yeah, it's a legal one.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

It's a legal scam, but it's a scam. Yeah, I agree.

[Jonathan Walton]

And then at Courtney's sentencing hearing on August 29, 2024, where the judge is supposed to admonish Courtney and her to jail, things take a really, really weird turn. All of a sudden, the judge seems less like a judge and more like a grade school guidance counselor. Eric and Anna see this judge in action in previous hearings, and they are alarmed.

[Eric Kramer]

And so we're watching other criminals in orange jumpsuits come in, and at one point, I told Ana, I said, you know what? She seems like the house. Every kid on the block would want to go and spend the night because she's, like, excusing all of these criminal acts and their history of criminal acts as though, you know, if you promise not to do it again, we're good. And so that's Courtney Baird's judge, obviously.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

For the past eight years. In my line of work, I've been to several sentencing hearings, including the one against my con artist. So I know how they go. When I went to Courtney Baird's sentencing hearing with. With you and Anna and Patrice, it was like the Twilight zone. I had never seen anything like it. And this is a guilty plea. We know she's guilty. It's not like, well, let's give her the benefit of the doubt. No, no, she pled guilty. So, yes, she did it. And the judge treated Courtney like it was her daughter, like there was, like, a love and a concern there with the way she spoke to her. And you'll do better next time, and I'm pulling for you. And don't do this again and you're the victim. Like, she seemed to have no regard for you whatsoever. It was stunning for me to witness. And again, it's not like I'm new to this court thing. I've been to a lot of hearings in a bunch of other cases. That's not how they go. The judge is usually very pissed, and the judge hands down a sentence and gives a stern warning. I can only imagine how you were feeling.

[Eric Kramer]

My experience, family law system, the criminal court system, the conservatorship system, there's not one that works efficiently or in a way that leaves someone like me feeling, oh, what a good job you did. Never. It's never happened, and it never will happen. The system itself is flawed. So when Courtney Baird's lawyer says, I've never heard heard of a restitution payment of $170,000 before. Well, if you stole 300,000, 170,000 is barely half. I don't care what you think is a lot. It's what was stolen. Did the judge pay any attention to that? No. Did the judge pay attention to anything that had to do with anything criminal in this matter? No.

[Jonathan Walton]

And at this point, the truly troubling thing about Courtney Baird, in my mind, that completely escapes every criminal court official's attention that day is the fact that.

[Anna Durgan]

She had a public defender. Public defenders are not going to be representing people that have money.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

That again, she should have been prosecuted. Right, because clearly she lied to get a public defense defender. Because to get a public defender, you have to prove you have no resources, you have no money. So she gets a public defender, and then on the other side of her mouth, oh, I came up with $170,000. Well, then you never needed a public defender then. Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam. This is a whole other fraud happening here. She now qualifies for a public defender, yet she's got 170,000 to pay restitution.

[Jonathan Walton]

Not to mention the $670,000 bail her family covered. Shockingly, the judge didn't have an issue with this financial paradox. And her public defender's salary of $271,000 a year is being paid by me and Eric and Anna and every other tax paying citizen in Los Angeles county. FYI, I applied to get a camera in the courtroom to record the sentencing hearing, and the judge denied my request. I was really upset at the time, but now I completely understand. I mean, if you were that judge, would you want any of what's going down today recorded? Because Courtney Baird Pleads guilty and is paying $170,000 in restitution. The judge ends up sentencing her to just 180 days in jail for what she did to Eric Kramer. But Courtney only serves a fraction of that time. A little over two months. And now she's out and about, free as a bird. I want to point out here that I never saw any remorse on Courtney's face that day in the courtroom, and she never apologized to Eric for the hell she put him through. And get this. After the sentencing hearing, her family was overheard saying that Eric Kramer is, quote, a big loser. They don't appear to believe that Courtney Baird did anything wrong, which makes zero sense, because the record shows that Courtney Baird pled guilty and went to jail for what she did, and she paid Eric $170,000 in restitution. The truth of the matter is Courtney Baird manipulated Bert, sheriff's deputies, lawyers and judges, and the entire legal and conservatorship system for years in order to steal from Eric. That's what the evidence shows. And they're calling him a loser.

[Eric Kramer]

The whole thing was a joke. Including that. So she is a fraud, a thief, a liar, a cheat. So you tell me, who is the protect and serve people? Who are they serving? Who are they protecting? The con woman at the end of that day, the only person skipping like, as though what. What a great life this all is was who? Courtney Baird. Because why? She didn't pay a nickel. Her brother paid every cent of that restitution. She spent 60 days, maybe, in jail. Life couldn't be better for her.

[Jonathan Walton]

Eric's anger is completely understandable. I'm angry at the whole situation, too. I mean, Eric was mentally incapacitated for years after that gunshot wound to the head. And he had the brain capacity of a child. And instead of protecting him and looking out for him, the court system, both criminal and civil, the conservatorship system, and a bunch of different lawyers appear to be fleecing Eric Kramer at every turn.

[Eric Kramer]

On an eye. Catalog it all.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Listening to all of these people take advantage of you and misrepresent you and kind of really screw you over when you're the most vulnerable you've ever been in your life. It just seems like you're getting bounced around from scammer to scammer to scammer, all taking a piece, taking advantage and sending you a on your way, less for.

[Eric Kramer]

Wasn't just from Courtney Beer. Because that's what stung the most, was realizing, wow, she's nothing more than a thief and a con. But yet it's all these other people that also took advantage. I wasn't just subject to undue influence from somebody named Courtney Baird. I was subject to undue influence from whoever was in society at any given time, which included all the people we're now talking about. There's a lot more legal theft than illegal theft going on in there. Yeah. Until you experience what I experienced, you need to stand in my shoes. You'll get a real feel for what this system is capable of doing.

[Jonathan Walton]

It's Thanksgiving, 2024. Eric Kramer has fully regained his mental capacity. He's making a toast at his dining room table now, surrounded by his family and friends.

[Eric Kramer]

It really t me that, hey, you're all here. And that I am too. I've never seen said this before and I wanted to acknowledge that. How much I apologize, but how much I must have put you through.

[Jonathan Walton]

Eric still carries the guilt for the effect his decades long battle with depression had on everyone around him, culminating with his suicide attempt. That gunshot to the head. And Eric not only survives that life threatening wound, but he goes on to survive getting victimized by Queen Courtney Baird and the LA county court system and all those lawyers who were also conned by Courtney and then put their hands in Eric's pocket and cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars as a result of believing all her lies. But then, in a truly remarkable turn of events, after his suicide attempt In August of 2015, Eric never suffers from depression ever again.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

It was kind of like a weird cure, right? It's like the joke is one way.

[Eric Kramer]

To look at it.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Walton]

And there actually might be some science to back up that theory.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

So I don't know, maybe there is something to that.

[Jonathan Walton]

Dr. Mark Kerner is the head and neck surgeon at Northridge Hospital who performs emergency surgery on Eric Kramer that night and saves his life. What's amazing is since he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger and the recovery, he's not had a single bout or episode of depression.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Right.

[Jonathan Walton]

Like, did the gunshot cure him? In a sense.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

You know, it's interesting, but there are.

[Jonathan Walton]

Parts of his frontal lobe now missing. Right. Or injured that were injured that have now somewhat healed.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

But yeah, so I mean, that's impulse control. That's some memory stuff that could be even maybe related to. For the reason that 70 years ago they thought frontal lobotomies were a good idea, you know, that they were using that to treat, you know, depression, schizophrenia, certain psychiatric illnesses that we didn't have medications for. Maybe, maybe there was something to that.

[Jonathan Walton]

Listen, I Am in no way advocating shooting yourself in the head to cure anything because 99 out of 100 times, you'll probably die instantly. This was just one of those unforeseen, wonderful things to come out of Eric's years long ordeal. And the other unforeseen, wonderful thing that happened is Eric and Anna fell in love.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

How amazing is that? You've known her your whole life. She's always been a friend. At what point did you two fall in love?

[Eric Kramer]

The beauty of that part of that story that you're asking is. I don't know. I really don't.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

You don't know when the moment was, but at some point you fell in love with her. At some point you fell in love with him.

[Anna Durgan]

Covid, Was it Covid? You gotta thank Covid for something.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

And that was after Courtney had been charged.

[Anna Durgan]

Yeah. Everything we were. We were working together.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

You know, it's almost like an office romance. Right? You were working together on this case, trying to get out from under it, trying to get justice.

[Jonathan Walton]

Yeah.

[Eric Kramer]

I think to me, a better way to answer your question as to when Ana and I fell for each other was it was more during that time. Whenever that time was, I'm out of most of the fog I was in. And just in being around her. Having Ana be on display of everything.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

That makes up Anna, she's quite a force.

[Eric Kramer]

She. Well, in so many ways that I think the full force of Ana's character and who she is as a person was on display over time so many times that to me it was like, what are you doing? Why are you not pursuing her?

[Jonathan Walton]

Eric and Anna have now morphed into the ultimate scam fighting power couple. And they're taking what they've learned over the past 10 years about battling depression, about the insanity of conservatorships, and the insanity of the civil and criminal courts. And they're working to change the system.

[Eric Kramer]

So here's the system that works. Get yourself an Anna Durgin.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Walton]

I mean, if everyone had an Anna Durgan by their side, the world would be a much better place for sure. But Eric and Anna are planning to change state laws that govern conservatorships and raise awareness about the perils of the system that exists today, especially when it comes to the mentally incapacitated.

[Eric Kramer]

You've got lawyers here that don't understand and they need medical assistance in how to view these cases, which clearly needs to be interjected into the system. You shouldn't be allowed to be a conservator. You have to go. You have to pass a certain number of courses in a certain number of subjects to get a high school degree. But the system doesn't make. They don't have a formula for what every conservatorship lawyer in America has to do. Ana and I, in some time are going to be standing in front of Congress people with this transcript from the.

[Jonathan Walton]

Court appointed conservatorship attorney's deposition saying, get your act together. Eric is also spending his time traveling all over the country giving talks about the warning signs of depression and how early intervention can save people's lives.

[Eric Kramer]

Regarding my suicide attempt, I had not set a day to kill myself. But after intense weeks of planning, the only task left to do was pull the trigger.

[Jonathan Walton]

The story of Eric Kramer isn't over yet, not by a long shot. He plans to spend the rest of his life helping people who are in a really dark place and are contemplating suicide make a different choice in their right mind.

[Eric Kramer]

Who's going to plan their own exit? Nobody. The whole strategy would be. Long before there's ever a thing called anxiety or depression or isolation in your life, there's a proactive approach to go seek those that you feel comfortable with, sharing things about yourself with, and that also they take an active interest in ensuring that you feel okay. And if they notice you're not, potentially, they'll reach out to you, you first, long before there's ever anything that you have in place. I don't think there's a way you can explain the circumstances or the mindset that propels you down that tube, for lack of a better word, because there's. You wouldn't plan it. If you, in your right mind, you wouldn't think, how do I do this? On the other side of that, fortunately, is today where I think I can help at least tell other people, not just my story, but what I would and now do differently.

[Jonathan Walton]

The Eric Kramer and Anna Durgan story is a reminder to us all that you gotta fight and you have to be persistent and you have to push back. Especially when you're dealing with a con artist and a system of sheriff's deputies and lawyers and judges who were all falling for the con.

[Anna Durgan]

And you have to just get everything in writing and document things and provide it to the authorities. If you're not, if you don't care enough to contact them every single week and be a, you know, a thorn on their side, they're not going to care about your case.

[Legal Expert / Attorney Lisa McCarley]

The onus is 100% on the victim, but nobody tells the victim that, right?

[Anna Durgan]

You think by just reporting it that it's they're going to investigate. No, you got to make sure they're investigating.

[Jonathan Walton]

If you or someone you know is struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, call or text 988 right now and speak with a counselor for free. If you're enjoying the Quarterback and the Con Artist, click that share button right now and text it to your friends and family. And if you can, leave us a five star review. The Quarterback in the Con Artist is produced, written and hosted by me, Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Media Executive producers Eric Kramer and Anna Durgan Audio engineering by Justin Longer Beam editing and sound design by Hansdale She Legal counsel provided by Ken Sterling from Sterling Media Law. We've got a lot of incredible stories in the works at Jonathan Walton Media, so make sure you subscribe and keep an ear out.

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