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Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
From Addiction to 9-Figure Exit ft. Eric Spofford | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby
00:55:37
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- [00:01]
A
From an armed robbery charge to a $115 million exit. Eric Spofford didn't just turn his life around. He built one of New England's largest addiction treatment networks and sold it for nine figures. But after the exit, he got bored. So he built another empire.
- [00:21]
B
Yeah, it's not pretty. It's not sexy. They print money.
- [00:25]
A
Today he's teaching everyday Americans how to invest in real estate while building recovery centers across the country. This isn't a business story. It's a legacy story. Addiction, redemption, real estate, impact. You're going to die. The only question is, will you live first? From rock bottom to nine figures. From deals on the street to deals on the deed. Welcome to Coffees. What is your morning routine?
- [00:53]
B
God, I just got asked this on stage. I was speaking at Clever Summit, couple thousand people, and we did a big panel and everyone laughed. I said, I'm not one of these big. I wake up and I check my phone, then I pee and then I get to work. Like it's really that easy. I'm, I'm open my eyes 0 to 100 miles. An hour. The second that I do, I'm eating breakfast on the phone. Sometimes I'm on my first zoom or teams meeting and I'll turn the screen off and wolf down my food real quick. And so I don't have this big cold, plunge, burpees, meditation, red light, blah, blah, blah. I just wake up and it's. For me, I have so much that I wake up with in my head. It's just go, go, go. And then what I do do though, is I break the day up. And so I put my workout in the middle of the day. And so I'll run hard till early afternoon and then check out for 90 minutes, hit the gym, you know, go sweat it out and then come back and kill the rest of the day.
- [01:58]
A
Yeah, that's unique. Not getting the workout done first thing in the morning, that's different. You get it down. You get. Because yeah, it's, it's 10am which is 1pm Your time right now. And you're like, I'm gonna go to the gym at 11. So you're, you're, you're breaking up your, your day with the workout.
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B
100%.
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A
Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so give the listeners just a 20,000 foot overview of your first business, the exit, and then what you're currently doing.
- [02:20]
B
Yeah, yeah. Grew up in the greater Boston area, lived a very crazy life. Addiction, crime, you know, movie quality, street drama. Back in the day. Got sober December 7th of 2006, caught an armed robbery charge, went on the run. God intervened, uses what he has possible. And at the time it was the entire police department of the city that I was in. And that started my journey of changing my life. And what happened after that was I personally got into recovery from addiction and alcoholism. I caught fire. I got absolutely more enthusiastic and excited about helping other people recover just like I had to, than you could possibly imagine. And I turned that into a business. I started my home state of New Hampshire's very first sober living house at 23 years old. 2008, right as the, the entire economy was melt, melting down, I'm sure you remember, and we were spiraling into a recession is when I was starting my business. And so October 2008 I two things happened. I started my business and I did my first real estate deal. I had saved up some money, my dad agreed to help me with the financing and get me into a property. We bought a three unit building for Union Street, Derry, New Hampshire for all the fact checkers out there, that in October 2008 for $150,000 foreclosed from the bank.
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A
Wow.
- [03:47]
B
Moved in, fixed it up a little bit, furnished it and moved a bunch of guys in, called it a sober house and figured it out. 23 years old, lived there for two years with all the clients. 2008, 2008 to 2010, I lived in that building. Me and 11 men that were in early recovery from addiction and alcoholism. Did everything together, cooked, taught them life skills, how to cook, clean, get jobs, pull your pants up, shave your face, go to AA meetings, do recovery stuff, help other people, all of it. Wanted to grow that business and then over the next, from start to finish, 13 years, two months, I grew that from that one little sober house with me and 11 guys to a multi site collection of addiction treatment facilities. 440 treatment beds. We had 325 employees. Top line revenue at the end of it was about 50 to 55 million. And I sold it for $115 million off a 13 million dollar TTM EBITDA. December 21st of 2021.
- [04:54]
A
Wow. Yeah. You're 36 years old. Big exit. 36, amazing.
- [04:59]
B
Yeah.
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A
After that, you know, 36 years old, what happened? You were just chilling. You're like I don't need to work ever.
- [05:05]
B
I didn't need to work ever again, you know. But I was in Southern Florida. I first started Fort Lauderdale at some point, shortly after, like 11 months later, moved down to Miami, down the street. And dude, I was Living the dream, man. I bought a boat. I was, you know, going all the nicest spots and hanging out with the cool people and doing all this stuff that, that people think they want to do. And I made it like months and I was like, this sucks, I need to build something. Yeah, you know, I'm just not really built for that. I'm a worker, I'm a builder. And so, you know, I bought a boat, I bought a plane, I bought a bigger boat, I bought a jet, I bought a bigger house, I bought all the cars I wanted, bought all, you know what I mean? It's like I ran out of to buy, I ran out of fun to do and said we got to do it again. And so jump right back into the mix. And have been building two businesses since.
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A
Nice. And what are those businesses?
- [06:00]
B
Another addiction treatment business currently open in Ohio, just open in California, Pennsylvania. And then also second of that is a real estate business where we take average ordinary American working class people and make real estate investors out of them. And so we have a turnkey investments group that provides a white glove experience for people that essentially don't know a lot about real estate, but want to park the money in real estate. Instead of the S P500, 401ks etc and we put them into single family section 8 properties that have great cash on cash returns.
- [06:38]
A
That's awesome. What is the cash on cash return on a Section 8 property right now?
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B
It really depends on the deals, but.
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A
We target 30, 30 cash on cash on section eight.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah, it's not pretty, it's not sexy. There's nothing sexy about it. But if you could just close your eyes and look the other way, they print money.
- [06:54]
A
I didn't even know that the cash on cash returns are that high.
- [06:58]
B
So there's this yin and yang to it. The, you know, the, the positives are the returns are crazy. You're not going to find those returns anywhere else. And that's in today's interest rate environment with the cost of capital what it is, we're still hitting 30% on average cash on cash returns. The difficulty, which is what makes it so good for our audience, our clients, but hard for institutional investors to come in is it's very difficult to scale. Right. These houses are less than a hundred thousand dollars. And so when you're using leverage, if you call it 100 grand a house, which most of them are less at a 75 loan to value, you're going to deploy $25,000 for each deal. How do you deploy capital at scale that's you know, if you want to deploy 100 grand, that's four deals and that's four offers, four negotiations, four closings for, you know.
- [07:51]
A
Yeah.
- [07:52]
B
And so that's why a lot of people end up in multifamily. But if you can get operationally good at scaling and doing all the hand to hand combat that it takes, there's a ton of money there.
- [08:03]
A
And that's great for the audience to know because I think most people, especially listening to this, probably wrote off section 8. It's not really a niche. Everyone talks about multifamily. We had a panel yesterday at the conference. They were all multifamily guys. Some of the guys were doing some industrial. But Section 8 is definitely something that's just forgotten. And the cash on cash I'm hearing that you're offering, is it through a fund or is it through your group? Or you just. Are they. They on the note themselves? The folks are on the property. They own the property.
- [08:33]
B
Yeah, they. They purchase the property. They own the property. And we have a property management group that if they choose to use us, we'll manage it for them on the go forward.
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A
So walk me through, like the cadence here. I give you 100 grand. Let's say that gets me two houses that I'm on the deed on.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And then you just.
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B
Probably three houses, but yeah.
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A
And then you just send me a check every month on that money.
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B
Correct.
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A
That's it.
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B
That's it.
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A
What's in, like how. What's the margin in it for you guys? Like, how much margin is there?
- [09:02]
B
We charge a consulting fee up front because unlike you, you're an experienced real estate guy. You know what you're talking about, right? The majority of our clients don't.
- [09:13]
A
Yeah.
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B
And so we have a team of VIP transaction coordinators that they hold their hand through the entire. They help them order the appraisals, help them, you know, apply for financing. They. They literally hold their hand. We call them transaction coordinators. They're more like transaction counselors. Like, it's a very emotional process for a lot of them. They have a lot of anxiety. They're going into real estate for the first time. Many of them, the only deal they've ever done is buying their own home. And some of them have never done that. They're renters that want to own investment real estate. So we make money on that consulting fee and then we have a little bit of markup in the houses, and it's really a volume game for us. We move a lot of units we have a lot of clients.
- [09:56]
A
Yes. And it's amazing that you can offer this to really low level people. So does one need the full like amount to purchase a full unit or.
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B
No, we finance them.
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A
You finance? Okay, yeah. Good, good.
- [10:09]
B
Now 75 or 80 LTV. So they're coming up with either 20 or 25% down.
- [10:15]
A
And so they're just coming up with plus fees, five grand, ten grand, you know, to buy a property.
- [10:19]
B
No, I mean a lot of them, you know, say the property's 80 grand, they'll have a 70. So they need 20,000 down on the property plus you know, 5,000 for financing fees and appraisal and all that stuff.
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A
Now I like to talk about like one's journey. Now at what age did you realize you're gonna be an entrepreneur? I mean, must have been after that way. Really?
- [10:40]
B
Yeah, I, I, I mean I, I, at, at every memory since I can remember of my childhood, I had a hustle, a deal. I was constantly working something, I mean in this third grade I was selling fireworks, breaking down bricks of firecrackers and selling packs of firecrackers, making a profit on that. And you know, this is along before the Internet was the Internet and I had a stack of Penthouse nudie mags and I used to rent those out to the kids in the neighborhood. That was third grade Eric. Fifth grade Eric. 10 years old. I actually hold my state's record, if you call it, call it that, for the youngest individual ever charged with a drug sales crime. And so in fifth grade, 10, 11 years old, I was taking quarter pounds, half pounds of weed, breaking it down. And I got caught selling weed when I was in the fifth grade.
- [11:38]
A
That's great. That's like my little babies now then like I can't imagine ass little kid.
- [11:42]
B
I was terrible. I feel bad for my parents. Yeah. But it was just one fixing bikes. I would go to the dump, you know, where I was from, they had a place where everyone brought all this stuff and threw it out. There's a big metal section and so people would bring old bicycles and I would go take all the bicycles and take parts from this one and that one and spray paint them and make them cool and sell the bikes. Like I just have always been thought in deals, can't turn it off.
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A
Yeah, I mean like, you know, I, I, it reminds me like Pastor Joel Olsteen, he says like, you know, well.
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B
If you're, huh, I know of Joel a bunch of stuff.
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A
Yeah, yeah. He mentions it's like, you know, if your kid's a drug dealer and you stop selling drugs with. He's learning entrepreneurship, you know, he's learning how to hustle, he's learning how to listen.
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B
I will put, I will put my short lived career as a drug dealer up against anyone's MBA any day long. All day long, for sure.
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A
Yeah. I mean you learn, you learn a.
- [12:42]
B
True hustle a hundred percent. I mean you learn, you know, acquisition, disposition, market share. You learn risk management, you learn operations, you learn supply and demand. Like there's a lot to it.
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A
You know there is. And, and you're excited about a real hustle that's actually teaching you a lot which can get you into, you know, a lot of trouble. But thank God, knock on wood, you got, got out of that game pretty, you know, ski free.
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B
Yeah man, God was good to me.
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A
Yeah, for sure. And we, we hint on that now, you know. Do you have any kids?
- [13:14]
B
Two. Yeah, two boys. Gavin, 13 years old and Mace will be three this Saturday.
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A
Nice.
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B
Celebrating his birthday now.
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A
So I, I have four kids myself now. How are you teaching your kids that? Because your kids are, you know, not like you. They, they grew up in a prosperity driven lifestyle.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You grew up dirt poor like me. You know, we're poor. So grip came different when you, when you come from poverty a hundred percent.
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B
I mean I tell my kids, I mean my littlest one is he's still 2 years old, turning 3, so he's a little young for it. But my oldest, you know, he's 13 years old. So when he was born, I didn't have money and so he was by my side through all of the hard work, all the adversity, all the come up, you know, and so he got to grow up and witness all of that. So you know, that's certainly he remembers what it used to be like and now what it's like now. But I tell him all the time, I said, you're not rich. I'm rich. You're actually poor. You have nothing like. And so I make him work for it, man.
- [14:16]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
He's got a job working on my boat with the boat crew and he's had since he was 11.
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A
Yeah. I mean that's one of the things, Eric, that I'm always thinking. I'm sure you are too. It's like, how am I going to instill that same level of grit?
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B
Yeah.
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A
My kids, how am I going to make sure that they're better than me?
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, given like hunger. Yeah. How do, how do you put hunger in kids that really don't need to be hung like, they're rich.
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B
Yeah. I, the. My answer is I don't really know, but I'm doing the best that I can.
- [14:46]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know, by not spoiling them. Not. And it goes against intuition. You work so hard, you make it get all the success you want to spoil the people around you.
- [14:54]
A
Yeah. Especially your kids.
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B
But that's good for us, not for them. Yeah, it feels good for us, but what actual impact does it have for the children? And so, you know.
- [15:05]
A
Yeah. They see you grinding all day long and it's like, no, I'm rich, you're poor.
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B
Yeah, that's it.
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A
Yeah. Now, where do you think, like, where do you think you derive your, your, your strong work ethic? Where is that derived from?
- [15:25]
B
I won't say that I grew up with nothing, but my dad cut down trees for a living. And I watched him get up every day early in the morning and put on a pair of work boots and go out there and run a chainsaw and he was a logger and come home covered in sweat and blood and, you know, wood chips and dirt and, you know, we always had a place to live. We never had anything fancy. We didn't go on vacations. We didn't, you know, we didn't have any of that. But there was always food on the table and a place to live. And from my younger, like, you talk think about why I was selling weed at 10 years old. I wanted back then, they. I don't know if you remember this, but they had these jeans, they're like these big baggy jeans called Jinko Jeans.
- [16:11]
A
Yeah, of course I remember that.
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B
Yeah. I wanted the JNCO jeans, man. I wanted to be, you know, wearing these cool pants with the cool kids. And I also wanted. There was a pizzeria by my house that kids hang out with because that little arcade section and I never had money for it. I wanted to wear the jeans and I wanted to be able to go to that pizzeria, eat two slices of pizza, a Coca Cola, and play as much pinball as I wanted to play. And that was like my 10, 11 year old thoughts. And so I was like, well, I'll sell weed, you know, and that's the real. I wasn't even smoking weed at the time. And that. That's what I wanted. So I've always just had this, like, I want it all, man. You know, Like, I want it all. At a certain point, I think that that, that unfolded in phases for me where, like, I dreamt about owning a jet, like Obsessed over it for four years before I. I took my first private flight on my friend's Challenger. And then for probably four and a half years, I was like, I just need to make enough money that I can own a jet and the cars and a boat and all this stuff. And I think a lot of it was that was the wanting all of this. And to answer a question you didn't ask, now it's shifted a lot for me, where I just love the process. In fact, it started to go the other way. I don't actually want any of this stuff. Like, I don't want any more cars. I don't want any more. I don't know. It just kind of lost. Once you buy it all, you've had it. It's. Everyone should do it, but it's kind of lost its pizzazz a little bit. So now it's allure.
- [17:45]
A
It's like, yeah, yeah.
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B
And so now it's just for a love of the game, the love of the process. I love the people. I love to build. I love to create. I love the mission. I love, like, putting it on a whiteboard and going, all right, guys, this is the play. This is what we're gonna do. And then putting it all on the line and watching it all come together and come to life. I mean, entrepreneurship business is the coolest thing in the world because everybody's business. This podcast, this beautiful company, your amazing office space, by the way, all of that, at one point, was just an idea that you had. Like, you were sitting there and you just thought of it, and you said, I'm gonna go do this, and I'm gonna work hard, and I'm gonna take all this risk, and I'm gonna do it. And then to see it materialize in front of you and become a tangible asset, and then to see these employees and. And people come in and them make their livelihood through something that you created. I mean, it's just the most exciting thing in the world. So that's what keeps me going.
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A
It is.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And it just brings you so much satisfaction that you can serve at such a great capacity. Capacity. Something I love about the. The journey that I'm currently on through this podcast. And, you know, the social media and is, like, just the networks now. Like, it's all about the people. Like, everybody in the circle that we. We all know, it's like, nobody talks about money or no one cares. You know, it's all like, we just. How can I help you, Eric? What do you need?
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B
Yeah, man.
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A
You look at guys Like Dan Fleischman, he's just relentlessly trying to help everyone.
- [19:11]
B
Yep.
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A
Doesn't care about money. Like, what can I do? What can I do to help?
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B
The money comes.
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A
It just comes.
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B
Yep.
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A
You know, I always say, and I say this all the time, I said on the panel yesterday, it's like, just do God's work. Does your work. Every single time. Every single time. You did it. You're living proof. And the testament, you're like, you know, one of the biggest things people deal with that just destroys families is addiction. You're like, I'm gonna take my knowledge, my expertise, and I'm gonna apply it to, you know, and I'm gonna build a business out of it. You know, one thing, like, you built a massive business on. On serving others. Like, really? How? Like, what motivated you to start your first clinic? What do you think the underlying motivation was? Was it to help? Was it just to help?
- [19:59]
B
Yeah, I didn't actually. I never in. Never in a million years thought that that would become my full time business. And I never even had a single thought that it would become a large business. Honestly. I was a construction worker. I. I was following after my dad's footsteps, and I was cutting trees down every day. And so for the first two years that I had the sober house, I still got up and went to work and logged and cut trees down and, you know, ran heavy equipment and did all that stuff. And I thought that that would be my career and this was just some side thing that, you know, that I had going on to help people. And then as it grew, you know, there was a pivotal moment that happened for me. It's a little morbid, but it was one of the most impactful things that's happened in my life was this country came under attack of fentanyl in 2012. And I will say that it came under attack because prior to that overdose death was nothing. What it looks like Today, we had 112,000Americans die last year of accidental opiate overdoses. It didn't used to be like that. When I was getting high, I got sober in 2006. I didn't know anyone that died ever. Was real heroin. Real heroin left this country and it was replaced by a synthetic drug called fentanyl around 2012. And what happened from 2012 to 2015? 16. Like that next three, four, in five years. A tale of it was that all these people that I grew up with that I love because I don't have a big family, it was just really me and my dad and I Loved my friends, but they were street kids just like I was. Troubled homes, just like I was all of that. I watched every single one of them die. All of them. Like every I like I can go back to these memories of throwing parties at my dad's house and having 50, 70, 80, 100 kids at my house all the time. We used to throw these parties. And I can remember I'm gonna shut my ey and walk through that party with the kegs and the big speakers with the wires running out of the basement blasting that old rap music with the Philly blunts that we used to crack and empty out the. The guts of them and put the weed in them and roll the up as a teenager, right? And I'm looking at the faces and every one of them is a ghost now. And I went to every one of their funerals and I hugged every one of them, their grieving parents, their moms, their dads that were just shattered and broken and changed for the rest of. And so at that, in that thing, it was the most painful thing that you could imagine to go through and just watch your people disappear around you in a modern day black plague, really. And something switched in me and I went this. I don't know what I can do, but I know how to do this. And that's where I took the business from, like these little sober houses in its. The identity that it was. And I blew that thing up because it's like it was the only way that I knew how to help. And like my people were dead, but yours weren't. Yours is still here. They have a chance. And if I can get my hands on them, I know I can help them. And so that's what we did, man. We did 500 admissions a month. We treated between five and 6,000 people a year, year over year, for a long time.
- [23:24]
A
Saved so many lives.
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B
We made a lot of impact, man. That's a lot of what my personal brand was built about too. I was at your event last night. I had posted it twice in my story. And so a lot of people came there that follow me to, to the event that you hosted, which was a wonderful event, by the way. And a gentleman came up just to take a picture with me. He drove like two hours and said, eric, just watching your content, following you around. I got off, I got cleaned off of coke and booze. That was last night at your spot.
- [23:50]
A
Wow.
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B
And so, yeah, I got the guy's picture right here, dude.
- [23:54]
A
You know, just to know that you're making that kind of impact Eric, that's like, that's so much more beyond money.
- [24:00]
B
This guy, if you saw him, that.
- [24:02]
A
Guy came and we called him out on stage. Like he, we thought he was like a professional athlete.
- [24:07]
B
That guy came because he saw me post and he came there because he wanted to tell me that just my messaging inspired him to get sober and give up alcohol and cocaine. And so like, dude, like it's. Again, back to what I was talking about. About like the cars and the, the stuff that a lot of people that want to get into business want. Like, dude, that means more to me than anything. There's not a, a tangible thing on planet earth that can give me that feeling of like looking at that man and being like, brother, that means the world to me. Like, you know what I mean? So that's what really was the, the rocket fuel to go all in and build that business. And we helped a lot of people. Couldn't help them all, but we helped a lot of them. We made a big difference. Proud of the work that we did there.
- [24:56]
A
And I'm proud. I'm, I'm honored and proud of what you've done. And I'm, I'm so stoked that you continue on with that mission. It's built a resilience in you that, you know, we were talking about this earlier, that allows you to kind of withstand any turmoil. Like, you're like, I'm a pro with Section 8 housing. Like, nobody wants to deal with Section 8. But you're like, no, I got this. You know, I'm a pro with, you know, drug rehabilitation centers. Nobody, everyone's scared of both those businesses. But what you're like, you're, you're running into the fire, you know, because you know that that's, that that's where the most help is needed.
- [25:30]
B
Well, when you look at both the businesses, I love that they're both purpose driven. The addiction treatment stuff for obvious reasons we just discussed. But then, you know, the business of Section 8 Real Estate and this kind of turnkey process that we have is a win win for everyone we take. I believe in real estate. I have my money parked and I have my money parked all over the place. The place I love it parked the most is real estate. And it's not accessible to a lot of people because they think they need to buy big properties. They think they need a huge amount of money to get into multifamily or, or whatever it is. They don't have the knowledge, they don't have the risk tolerance, they don't have the the time they're working, you know, nine to five jobs, they have children, they have spouses, they have life going on. They got to bring the kid to a soccer practice, they got the other one in gymnastics. Like, they just don't have it. And so we offer them a service where we're able to put them into real estate investing and manage the entire process for them. That's pretty cool. On the backside of that, we're attacking and providing a solution to an enormous problem in America, which is a shortage of affordable income for people that are at or below the poverty line. And the stigma around Section eight is like, oh, they're all criminals or they're bad tenants or they're going to mess your property up or they're not good people. And I just got to tell you, that may be true in some situations. Like, you know, a lot of times people think of Section 8 like the projects, big brick buildings, you know, drugs and all this crazy stuff. I know back in Massachusetts they do. In Ohio they do. But this is different because these are our families essentially, like our tenants. Like if you look at the avatar of who rents these properties, the Section eight tenants we have, the majority of them are three buckets of people, single, hard working moms that have one, two, three children that have, you know, many of them had their first children young, many of them are raising their children alone. They have jobs. But, you know, look, look at America today. How are you going to be a woman that say, I think of a recent tenant that we at least do, she had two children. She, I did the math, they were like five and seven. I think she had her first one when she was like 18 years old. She works at Walmart. And So she's got two children. She was pregnant at 17, had the baby at 18, had another baby several years after and works at Walmart. How are you going to survive in today's world? Like the middle classes is evaporating, right? Like, my grandfather worked at a steel mill in Lawrence, Massachusetts. He owned a home on two acres of land at a stay at home wife and raised three boys. Can't do that today.
- [28:18]
A
Not a steel mill, not a steel mill.
- [28:20]
B
You can't be a roofer, a plumber or an electrician. You could have a job in the union and still not be able to do that. Right? You can't own a home, have a stay at home wife and raise three boys as a union carpenter, electrician, no way. And so, you know, like these tenants, they're actually really good. We screen them well. But they're actually really good people. We also get a lot of elderly folks. A lot of those elderly folks are raising grandchildren they didn't expect to raise because the life circumstances didn't go the way that they planned. And then a lot of people with just disabilities. And so the people, you know, that we're serving on that side of things, they're actually really good people. And a lot of them work really, you know, some of the ignorant stuff that people say in section 8, and I hear it all the time, of course, like, oh, why don't those people get a job? I'm like, she has two, she has two jobs, just three children. What do you want her to do? You know, and so I feel good about that too. I feel good about the work that we're doing for those people, providing them high quality, you know, single family homes for families and stuff like that.
- [29:25]
A
I got to ask this question, just because it's just a such a hot topic. Is there any room, and there's room for this and I think any vertical, like, how is AI impacting the drug rehab business as a whole and Section 8 housing as a whole?
- [29:43]
B
Haven't seen AI. Well, all right, I guess a couple examples of AI. AI in Section 8, we actually have a software that we use that shows us heat maps of properties and is able to gather all these different data points and find distressed properties and all sorts of different stuff. And so we haven't fully utilized it yet, but we have it and it's a project that's in the making.
- [30:11]
A
Actually, the CEO of PropertyRadar was at, on the panel. I don't know if met him, but I need to put you in touch with him.
- [30:16]
B
Oh, cool.
- [30:16]
A
He, he can create, he has an AI that will create that heat map pos with distress properties.
- [30:22]
B
Yeah, yeah. Unbelievable information. So that on real estate, but on the healthcare side, AI is going to change the game on healthcare because in healthcare, I mean, healthcare is the most regulated industry in the world, right? We have licensing, accreditation, all these people.
- [30:42]
A
That banking, we're pretty regular. I, I always say mortgage industry is the most reg.
- [30:46]
B
You should try healthcare. We deal with human beings, right? And so it's arguably maybe neck and neck, but healthcare is incredibly regulated. We have to document every interaction. And so if you're a patient and I'm a therapist and I come talk to you, I have to go make an entire note in your medical record of the conversation that we just had. You can go talk to your clients for your mortgages and you don't have to do it in a recordkeeping system that, that is then audited by the state urine payers and accreditation bodies. It's wild. And so healthcare providers, half of their job is actually treating patients, the other half is documentation. And so now they've developed AI that it just sits there and gathers the entire interaction and types the medical notes for you.
- [31:34]
A
Oh, that's awesome.
- [31:35]
B
The best. Yeah. And so we've just started to experiment with that and roll that out and getting that up and running. And so it just gives us so much time. I mean, think about how much more time the people, the people, the health care, the therapists, the case managers, you know, the doctors, the nurses. These people need to spend time with the patient. When does the patient benefit? The patient's not benefiting when you're sitting in their chart typing the notes. The patient's benefiting when we're face to face having our conversations, having our experience. And so it gives them their time back to go spend it with the patient, patients.
- [32:09]
A
I actually was at a conference last week and someone introduced me to Plod, which is a thing that goes onto your phone and records your conversation. Plot is rolling out a neckwear where you just wear it. You turn it on and it will record the conversation and transcribe it all. It's just like a necklace crazy. Like, so you're probably going to want to buy plaid when it comes out with the new, the new neck piece. I think they're taking pre orders right now and probably be out by the time the show is released. And they just, they all just walk in with their necklace and it just documents the whole thing for them.
- [32:38]
B
That's crazy.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah, it's called Plaud Plod.
- [32:41]
B
I'm gonna check that out.
- [32:42]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I was, I learned about it because they had the, the phone. One version that goes on your phone, but now the neck neckwear one's coming out and you don't have to put it on your phone. You just like rock it and. Yeah, records everything and it transcribes it all.
- [32:54]
B
Crazy, man.
- [32:55]
A
And then like, and then creates notes. Bullets out of it.
- [32:57]
B
Do you ever think that we'd get here when we're. No, you know what I mean? Like, it's like I, I laugh all the time, like AI and all this stuff. I remember when we had the dial up modems with America Online and you know, your mom would pick up the phone and it would kick you off at AOL and you're not that old.
- [33:13]
A
You're only 38. You know, it's like who we have grown so far. And what are our kids gonna see?
- [33:18]
B
It's insane.
- [33:19]
A
Like, what are our kids gonna see? I don't. I have no idea. Because, like, even talk about plot, like, I didn't know something like that existed or would exist or ever, ever can exist.
- [33:27]
B
Yeah, totally.
- [33:28]
A
So the. The stuff that comes out every single day, we had the, The. The tech founders and we had, like, you know, we were. AI was obviously within tech. Was a big. Yep, Big subject. So everyone's like, has different verticals of tech. AI being implemented in their tech platforms. So it's just fascinating how tech companies are implementing it into their current environments and. And tech stacks. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you know, and you kind of brought this up, but you've accomplished such great success. You know, hundreds of millions of dollars, big exit. And. And we talked. We hit. We talked about this, but I really want to drive this home. It's like, after all your success, how do you continue to find motivation?
- [34:15]
B
I don't. I. I just. I don't find motivation. I just am motivated. I mean, I. For whatever reason, maybe because of the way I was brought up, maybe because the desire for more, but I still wake up with a little bit of anxiety. I. I like it. It's healthy anxiety. It's not something I'm even trying to get rid of, but I feel a little poor, a little broke, a little anxious, a little on edge every day. Every day I am.
- [34:43]
A
Like, I couldn't, dude. Like, I don't know why.
- [34:45]
B
Could go bad for a long time. And like, I'm still good. Good. You know what I mean? Like, I'm. It's. It's totally unreasonable, but I wake up with that feeling, and it just motivates the hell out of me. And so I don't know, man. I really don't know. I don't. You know, I wish I could give people advice. One of my biggest frustrations in business coaching, mentoring, leading, managing, is how do I instill this in other people? And after thousands of employees hired and fired or experienced in managing them under me in an org chart and countless people I've coached and all of that, I think I've just come to the determination that, like, you either have it or you don't. You either have a killer instinct and you're hungry as hell, or you're not, and you don't. And so for me, I am. And here's the other thing. If you are, good luck turning it off. Good luck. Like, I would if I didn't do what I do every Day. I think I would self destruct. I think it would be like capturing a lion from, you know, the wild where it hunts and roams and, you know, gets up every day and does a thing and put it in captivity where its mane starts to fall apart and doesn't want to eat and gets all depressed. You know, I love getting up and doing this every day. I'm obsessed with it.
- [36:07]
A
It.
- [36:08]
B
And. But I on the. To the downside is like, I can't turn it off. It's like that all the time, dude. I was in Dubai earlier this year and because of the time zone difference, it's very late in the day in Dubai. It's nine hours ahead of east coast time, my time zone. And I'm sitting there waiting all day for my people to get up. Like, you know what I mean? Because I'm up before them and they're like, can you just enjoy your vacation? Go like, ride a camel in the desert or something. I'm like, no, no. What are you guys doing? What's this? What's that? They're like, oh, my God, Eric, leave us alone, please. We were looking forward to the vacation from you while you were gone. Stop calling.
- [36:47]
A
Eric. When you said, I wake up every morning a little broke, a little anxious, you know, it just resonated with me.
- [36:58]
B
Yeah.
- [36:59]
A
Because every day I wake up and I'm, you know, I'm doing well.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah.
- [37:02]
A
Wake up, I'm like broke again this morning. Freaking. I gotta Crush the day. 100 I gotta figure out how to dominate this morning and, and just like accrue and win. Accrue more followers, accrue more deals, accrue more people to work for the company. Like, because today I wake up, I feel like a failure.
- [37:22]
B
100.
- [37:22]
A
I don't know why that is.
- [37:24]
B
Yeah.
- [37:26]
A
Sickness.
- [37:27]
B
I think it's a winner's mentality. You know, Losers, you know, they, they. They think they've done so much and they really haven't done much at all. And. But winners constantly over perform and overachieve and still feel like they haven't done enough. But I don't know how to change it, man.
- [37:45]
A
Yeah, that's the way it is. Impacts. It impacts our lives though. You know, impacts relationships. It impacts, you know, like, because we grind so hard.
- [37:51]
B
The one. Yeah, man. I, I certainly know a couple things about that. You know, it's changed a lot of relationships with me over the years. And for a long time there, I lived in. In southern New Hampshire, like 40 minutes outside of Boston. It's not this big hub for young entrepreneurs. And I did this through my 20s and early 30s, and so largely, I was alone. It was one of the reasons I made the decision to build a personal brand was to network and, and get out on the scene.
- [38:18]
A
That's why you got to get back here in Newport Beach. You got to get a second home out here.
- [38:21]
B
Yeah, man, I actually like Newport Beach. It was my first time being here, but I do, and, and I felt like something was wrong with me. I got treated like something was wrong with me because I was so unlike other people in my environment, in my ecosystem there. And now most of my. My world is entrepreneurs and people that understand, you know, but it's one thing that I, I know for certain. I'm not changing. So you can take me as I am and the crazy lunatic that wakes up poor and broke and has to work 16 hours today, or you cannot. But I'm not changing.
- [38:57]
A
Yeah, I can't change it.
- [38:59]
B
I've had a lot of relationships, though. Like, act like I should. Oh, you're always on your phone. Oh, you're always working. Oh, you're always this. And like, that's like. I don't think that gets talked about enough, man. It's like entrepreneurial shaming, you know, like, they call. What do they call it? Like, fat shaming.
- [39:18]
A
Yeah, all this. There's a lot of entrepreneurial shaming.
- [39:21]
B
I mean, we just coined that word right now. That, that was bored right here. Everyone, if you hear.
- [39:26]
A
Yeah, yeah, we both experienced so much entrepreneurial shaming in our life.
- [39:31]
B
Yeah, man. And so now I, I, it. I went through a lot with that for any of the entrepreneurs watching, and now I apologize for nothing. Like, this is the way I am. This is what I do. Don't even think about asking me to do anything differently, because I'm not going to sell out on me for your happiness. I'm not going to sacrifice what I want to do for you. That's crazy. I'll just resent you and hate you over time, and this will destroy itself.
- [39:56]
A
Anyway, yeah, I, I just experienced that, you know, like, going through building a big company for any wife is tough. Like, so I get it, you know, like, they did deal with it. That's why I now get divorced. So. Yep, you know, first time I had to say that on the, on the, Stay on, on the show. But, you know, like, I experienced that entrepreneurial shaming for, for years. And trying to turn it off, trying to navigate, it was tough, you know, like, because I'm always on, I'm always on I wake up 4 or 5 in the morning. You're, we're talking about, you're like, you're up that early, like four or five hours of sleep. And then I wake up like, I'm poor today, I'm broke today, I gotta go, like 5:00am at the gym, 6:00am at, you know.
- [40:44]
B
Yep.
- [40:45]
A
So. And entrepreneurial shaming is, is something that, you know, needs to be talked about to salvage relationships because the spouses that are married to successful entrepreneurs just need to just have some mercy or acceptance.
- [41:01]
B
Or, you know, I think it's all self awareness and they have some decisions to make. Listen, I, I feel I have legitimate empathy, empathy for them because. And I'll speak for myself, loving a guy like me is not easy. You know, there are a lot easier guys for you to love than guys like me. You know, the plumbers, the bankers, the electricians, the lawyers maybe that I don't know about, the doctors, they're always at the hospital. But you know, these guys that come home at 5 o' clock and they've shut work off, their head is clear and they're ready to have an engaged conversation and they will start thinking about work at 9am when they get back there tomorrow. That's not me at all. I am just obsessively working through problems and plans and what's happening next. And, and that's on date nights, that's on events that said, your mother's birthday party. Like, I, it's not gonna change. And so. But you have to. There's a lot of benefits to being guys with guys like us too, you know, and so I think you just have to outweigh the good with the bad and make a decision, but stop trying to change people. Like, don't come in here and expect me to be different for you. That was the biggest thing. It was like, listen, if you're not happy with me, there's a whole lot of guys over there, but they don't travel and stay at Pelican Hill or wherever I am staying on a private jet. And they don't live this lifestyle. And so if you're willing to give up this lifestyle and all the benefits of my hard work to go be with a guy that, you know, can shut this off at 5pm five days a week, then you should do that. You know, to their credit, a lot of them did all right. Yeah, I don't blame you. You know what I mean? Like, and, but I think also the people that are in my life today are the right ones and they're Very supportive. And I've never felt more free as a result of knowing that is my boundary, that is my standard, this is the way it is. I'm unapologetic about it. I will tell you that up front the day we meet. I'm not changing for anything. And now I honestly have a life that is totally free from entrepreneurial shaming.
- [43:17]
A
And, and, and now you're a better entrepreneur.
- [43:20]
B
100 because listen, we're the outliers. We're strange. Like, we are the minority.
- [43:27]
A
I love this group.
- [43:28]
B
100. I forget that we're. I forget that we're the strange ones because those are the only people I associate with. Right. This is my world.
- [43:39]
A
Yeah.
- [43:39]
B
But when you look back up and look at it, you know, in the society, like we are outliers of the normalities of society. And so when you find people that try to drive you to conforming to.
- [43:52]
A
This box man, you're definitely. You're not going to be living in Newport beach. On the beach, you're not going to be this and the other. You're not going to be private, you're not going to be waterfront. You know, but no, all that changes. You know, go marry a, you know, manager at whatever.
- [44:11]
B
Yeah.
- [44:12]
A
Some store, 9 to 5. And then there is a lot of benefit to that. You know, they'll make a nice six figures, you can buy a house, you'll be, you know.
- [44:20]
B
Yeah. Two weeks PTO a year and yeah. Get a timeshare. You know what I mean? Like, you know. Yeah. You know, but that's just. I think it's about self awareness and people knowing who they are and what they're able to tolerate and live with and, you know, weed themselves out because we can't fake it for each other if you can't deal with me and I can't meet your needs. We could pretend for a long time, but it's gonna be nothing but friction between us and eventually it's going to explode. And that's what happened to me over and over and over again through the course of my career until finally I just went, all right, I is what I is. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like Popeye. Like I is what I is. I'm not changing for nothing or nobody. And so you can accept it or you can leave, but don't ask me to do. If you, if you look at me and say anything about me being on my phone too much, one time I'm out, one time I'm gone. I gotta go.
- [45:16]
A
I'm gonna start A relationship now is like, there's no entrepreneurial shaming. That's it. That's my one rule.
- [45:24]
B
Yeah. Can't give up on the dream. I'll do anything for you, but can't give up on the dream. You know, I can't change. I can't change who I am. You know, it just is what it is.
- [45:36]
A
I got a couple last questions for you before we join here. What is a mantra that you live by?
- [45:43]
B
You're going to die. You're going to die. I make a lot. I think about it every single day again, in honor and respect of all the people that I lost in the struggle. When you watch as many people die as I have, you become acutely aware of your own mortality. And most people think that they understand intellectually they're going to die. Most people do that. That concept has not dropped into their heart and they don't know it. And if they knew it, they would live a lot differently than they're living. And you're running out of time, and you still have chances and you still have opportunities, and you're still here. And so let's make the most of it. And that's why I play fast. I play all in. I will take all the risk. I make decisions based off of that. Should I, shouldn't I? What if this is my last month? What if this is my last year? I don't know.
- [46:40]
A
This is your last podcast.
- [46:41]
B
What if this is my last podcast? Send it. You know, married to the concept that you're going to die is this one thing, which is another mantra. I think of them together, and it's my biggest fear, and it's regret. It's. I always think of this one moment every single day, and it's when I'm out of time and I'm out of chances and there's no more. I'll get to it. There's no more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wills. It's over. In that hospital bed, hopefully surrounded by people I love. It's time to punch that ticket. Did I do it all? Am I happy with the life that I lived? Or am I sitting there going, oh, I wish. I wish I'd done it. I wish I had taken that risk. I wish I told that person how I felt. I wish I did this when I had the chance, you know? And that scares the. Nothing scares me, dude. At nothing. Like, I just. I've been through too much. Like, I've seen. I've been through more crazy than I even remember. And so that stuff doesn't Scare me. That terrifies me. And knowing, knowing with a hundred percent certainty that day is coming. It's guaranteed for all of us. And so I use that and I reverse engineer that into the way that I live today. Like, literally right now, today, what I'm doing right, is that version of me. When I look at what. What is happening today through the lens of that last final chapter, is this how I would want to write this one? And so that's how I live.
- [48:29]
A
Amazing.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah.
- [48:31]
A
On that note, what is a personal goal that you have for yourself, a goal that you have for your family, and a goal that you have for your businesses?
- [48:41]
B
Personal goal that I have for myself is impact, legacy. Just trying to help as many people as I possibly can and leave as much of a dent in this world in the hearts of other people that I possibly can. Most of that for me is through recovery. And. And you know, my firm belief is God. God put me in this really crazy life and got me out of it and gave me a purpose. And, and for that I'm indebted and I owe other people. And so, of course, a lot of that lies around that. My family, just that they're happy, healthy, you know, find their way, find what they're looking for. My kids, you know, whatever that is. There's so much crazy out here, man.
- [49:32]
A
Yeah.
- [49:32]
B
I mean, just to raise, like, good boys that have a high level of character and integrity, that are living lives that they can be proud of, I can be proud of. That's just raising good humans, essentially. And then for my business, you know, we're marching towards a billion dollar net worth. You know, we did 100 million, and so can we double down? Can we do a billion? And not even because I need a billion dollars. It really doesn't change anything. I would still live where I live. I drive what I drive. You know what I mean? Like, there's a certain point where you. You cross a line where, like, more money doesn't change much. The index of change kind of levels off and plateaus. But I'm a heroin addict, an alcoholic in recovery, high school dropout. 15 years old, I left school, still never got a GED.
- [50:26]
A
You talk like you got a PhD times three.
- [50:29]
B
I say that I'm the most educated high school dropout you might ever meet because I have a lot invested in, in self education, personal development. You know, I learn every day. But if I can hit that target of a billion, it'll be widely publicized, it'll get a lot of attention, and it just rips the excuses out of any. Any kid that ever thought he never stood a chance, just like I didn't. Like, if I can start from there and get here, like, there's no reason you can't. So that's what we work towards.
- [51:05]
A
Last question.
- [51:06]
B
Yeah.
- [51:07]
A
When you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?
- [51:13]
B
I don't know if he's going to even know what to say to me. He's gonna be like, you did so much good, but you have so much. Like, what do we do with you, Spofford? You know, which pile do we put you in? And, you know, I'm not perfect. I make a lot of mistakes. Mistakes. And I try to apologize quickly, pivot quickly, change quickly. And so hopefully he sees that, you know, certainly I did nothing perfect, but. But I tried like hell. And, you know, I think that. I think that I'll do all right when I get there, I hope. Because one of the things that I take very seriously. And another mantra, if you will, and I say this all the time. You go, in my content. Scroll down. It's a theme. It'll show up over and over again. Is that how do you have a close relationship with God? Right? How do you do that? If God, like, like, you know, the Lord's Prayer, we say, our Father, Our Father who art in heaven, Right? So. So in that prayer, which is an unbelievable prayer if you break it down, right, Emmett Fox wrote a book that really spoke. Emmett Fox, great author.
- [52:16]
A
Broke down the prayer.
- [52:17]
B
It broke down the prayer. It's been a long time since I read it, but it's beautiful. But one of the things that says is it defines the relationship that we have with God, right? He's our. He's our Father, our heavenly Father. And so in that I think about, okay, so if he's our Father, we're all his kids. There's 8 billion of of God's children running around planet earth now. God's God. What does God need? Nothing. He needs nothing. We, me and you, you know, me and you have done pretty well in life. It's hard for our people to buy us Christmas gifts, isn't it? Because we got everything we want. If we wanted it on a Tuesday, we had it that night. Typically, we just ordered it, whatever it is. So similar to God. God's got everything but true. You got four kids.
- [53:07]
A
Yeah, four kids.
- [53:08]
B
What would mean more to you than me doing something kind for your children?
- [53:12]
A
I mean, that's priceless.
- [53:13]
B
Exactly. And so I think about that with God that God needs nothing from me, but God's kids do. And there's nothing I can do directly for God, but if I want to do for God, I got to do for his kids. And so I think about that every day in, like, how I conduct myself and, and how I treat people. And it's like I, I, God did so much for me and changing my life and picking me up out of what I used to be and giving me the power to become the man that I am today. And the path to live the life that I live today that every single person I interact with, I view as like his kids. I do that imperfectly. Catch me on the wrong day. You know, I might have an attitude or something, certainly not a perfect journey. But I try to really focus on that, on, like, being, you know, my indebtedness and my servitude for him and everything he's done with. For me to give back as much as I can to his kids. And so hopefully he sees that. I think he does.
- [54:14]
A
You know, Eric, you breaking it down to where it relates to my kids like you, it really hits, you know, because we don't do enough for God's kids. You know, we really got to think about it like that, like in the context of our kids. And that, that simplification of an explanation just really, it resonates. And I'm hoping it resonates with those that are the audience that's listening right now, because that's what it's about. It's about doing and serving God's kids.
- [54:42]
B
100 yeah, man.
- [54:44]
A
Eric, if people want to get in touch with you, if they want to connect you, DM you, how do people find you?
- [54:49]
B
Instagram's the best place at Eric Spofford. That's kind of the native platform.
- [54:54]
A
And I wish and pray for all the success for your boys, for your family, for your goals. I know you're gonna hit a billion. That's not even going to be, you know, nothing. The index of lifestyle is not going to change. You're still going to be hanging out, coming to these entrepreneurial circles and just, you know, dealing with entrepreneurial shamings. And that was coin right here on coffees for clothes.
- [55:15]
B
Yes, sir, Mr. Eric Spofford.
- [55:17]
A
Thanks for watching, guys.
- [55:28]
B
The temperature rising I'm a survivor the temperature rising I'm a survivor I'm a.
- [55:35]
A
Survivor Made for the climb.