Global Real Estate Visionary ft. Aaron Dodson | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 55

Summary

Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby – Episode 55: Global Real Estate Visionary ft. Aaron Dodson

Release Date: November 20, 2024

In Episode 55 of "Coffeez for Closers," host Joseph Shalaby, Broker and CEO of E Mortgage Capital Inc., sits down with Aaron Dodson, founder and CEO of Sellwell. Aaron brings a wealth of experience from his meteoric rise in the Australian real estate market to his role in steering Harcourts International to global prominence. This episode delves deep into the evolving landscape of the mortgage and real estate industries, emphasizing the importance of meaningful relationships and adaptive business strategies.

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Aaron Dodson: From Australia to Global Real Estate Visionary

Aaron Dodson's journey is nothing short of inspirational. Starting as a coated welder in the harsh climates of Western Australia, Aaron transitioned into real estate, driven by an entrepreneurial spirit. Within a decade, he closed over 5,000 transactions, capturing 50% of the Australian market and leading one of the top brokerages with annual home sales exceeding $1.6 billion. His success caught the attention of Harcourts International, leading to his appointment as CEO in 2006. Under his leadership, Harcourts expanded to over 600 offices across 10 countries in just five years.

Notable Quote:

“Support, support, support… That's what they're looking for, not just what we have to give.” – Aaron Dodson [00:04]

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Navigating Industry Changes: The NAR Settlement

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the recent NAR (National Association of Realtors) settlement and its profound impact on the mortgage and real estate sectors. Aaron draws parallels with his experiences in Australia, where deregulation previously necessitated significant industry changes. He views the settlement as a catalyst for growth and accountability, stating:

Notable Quote:

“Natural change is growth. We’ve been sitting here doing the same thing for a few decades now, and it has gotta reach a point where it needs a significant change.” – Aaron Dodson [04:06]

Aaron emphasizes that these changes will elevate the quality of professionals in the industry, pushing out part-timers and those without a solid business strategy. He foresees a shift from traditional lead generation methods to fostering deeper, more valuable relationships between realtors and lenders.

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The Power of Relationships: Realtors and Lenders

Aaron passionately discusses the symbiotic relationship between realtors and lenders. He underscores the importance of lenders becoming integral partners rather than just transactional service providers. Drawing from his own success, Aaron explains how a strong relationship with a lender can transform a realtor’s business.

Notable Quote:

“Your lender was always available at the time of the transaction, but the real value was in the database and the ongoing communication.” – Aaron Dodson [35:25]

He recounts his strategy of integrating his lender into his business processes, which significantly boosted his transaction closures and client satisfaction. Aaron advocates for loan officers to invest in genuine partnerships that add mutual value, rather than relying on outdated methods like paying for leads or superficial marketing tactics.

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Business Philosophy: Investing in Existing Talent

Aaron shares his strategic decision to halt recruitment and instead focus on nurturing and expanding the capabilities of his existing team. This approach not only reduced costs but also fostered a more sustainable and cohesive business model.

Notable Quote:

“Why not just invest a little bit more in what you’ve already got? We’re always looking for new bodies, new people, but investing in what you have is a game changer.” – Aaron Dodson [10:50]

This philosophy extends to his approach with Sellwell, where personalized coaching and support are prioritized over generic training programs. Aaron believes in tailoring strategies to individual strengths, enabling each realtor to maximize their potential.

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The Birth and Mission of Sellwell

Sellwell emerged from Aaron and his wife Justine’s desire to address the shortcomings in traditional real estate coaching. Recognizing that many new agents lacked practical guidance, they developed Sellwell as a comprehensive coaching platform that emphasizes the "how" alongside the "what."

Notable Quote:

“We created Sellwell because we saw that people weren’t really looking for the what to do. They’re looking for the how.” – Aaron Dodson [27:23]

Sellwell offers live coaching sessions, access to wealth managers, and a robust marketing department, fostering a supportive community of over 6,500 agents. This platform goes beyond mere instruction, providing real-time support and strategies tailored to individual needs.

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Future Outlook: Elevating the Industry

Aaron envisions a future where the real estate and mortgage industries are characterized by higher entry standards and stronger professional relationships. He anticipates that the settlement will lead to a more competitive and quality-driven market, where only those who provide true value and cultivate meaningful partnerships will thrive.

Notable Quote:

“The listing agent is the lender’s gold mine. Those who understand and leverage that relationship will find immense value.” – Aaron Dodson [35:25]

Aaron predicts that the next six months to a year will be challenging as professionals adapt to new norms. However, he remains optimistic, believing that these changes will ultimately lead to a more robust and accountable industry.

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Personal Insights: Work-Life Balance and Legacy

Beyond his professional achievements, Aaron shares personal reflections on maintaining balance and leaving a lasting legacy. He emphasizes the importance of winding down after a productive day to preserve mental and physical health.

Notable Quote:

“The most disrespectful thing we can do as entrepreneurs is give people a lesser version of who we are. If you don’t show up giving me 100%, you’re not getting my business.” – Aaron Dodson [45:30]

Aaron’s personal goals revolve around providing for his family and ensuring his children and grandchildren inherit a legacy of financial stability and resilience. He strives to instill grit and a strong work ethic in his children, encouraging them to pursue their passions and overcome challenges.

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Conclusion

Episode 55 of "Coffeez for Closers" offers invaluable insights from Aaron Dodson, highlighting the transformative power of strategic relationships and adaptive business practices in the real estate and mortgage industries. Aaron's journey from a coated welder to a global real estate leader serves as a testament to the impact of perseverance, innovation, and meaningful partnerships. For professionals aiming to navigate the evolving market landscape, Aaron’s experiences and philosophies provide a roadmap for sustained success and personal fulfillment.

Final Notable Quote:

“You never, ever give up on something you really believe in and are passionate about.” – Aaron Dodson [24:50]

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Listeners and viewers are encouraged to embrace these lessons, investing in genuine relationships and continuous personal and professional growth to excel in the dynamic world of real estate and mortgages.

Transcript

[A]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Coffee's Foreclosers. Today we're diving into the story of a man whose journey from the depths of Australia's hottest minds to the pinnacle of global real estate is nothing short of remarkable. In an industry where success stories are often decades in the making, he managed to close over 5000 transactions and secure 50% of the market in Australia in less than 10 years. His. His rapid rise didn't stop there. He went on to own one of the top brokerages, boasting annual home sales worth over 1.6 billion. He continued on by taking on the role as CEO at Harcourt International, where he spearheaded the company's explosive growth, launching over 600 offices across 10 countries in just five years. Together with his wife Justine, he's now setting new benchmarks for success in the industry with their latest venture, Selwell Sellwell helps realtors and lenders empower one another through their community. Join me in welcoming the founder and CEO of Selwell, Mr. Aaron Hodson.

[B]

Thank you, Joe. It's a pleasure to be here, my friend. Pleasure to be here.

[A]

Thank you so much, Aaron, for coming. I'm delighted to have you. I'm delighted to be on the forefront of all of these industry changes that are happening right now in our mortgage space, in our real estate space, because it's imperative for people to be educated, take action now. Don't sit on the sidelines till July when things are taking effect. Right now, a lot of people are freaking out. A lot of people are, you know, thinking how they're going to stay afloat. And you know, me and you were talking, you're like, these are the best times. This is exciting times. I've been waiting, what would you say, five years for this to come.

[B]

Since the day I got to the US job, been waiting for those changes to happen when they were always going to happen at some point. But yeah, it's, I think it's a really good move.

[A]

I'm excited, I'm excited that you're excited because that gives the listeners hope, that gives me further hope because we're going to just gain more market share. But before I dive into the excitement, exciting changes that are happening. Let's dive into you real quick. I like to start these episodes with a, with an icebreaker. So how do you like your. You've been super busy, very fast paced guy. How do you like to start your mornings? What's your morning routine like?

[B]

I mean, I've actually just recently changed it up. My morning routine is I don't generally touch my phone first thing in the morning. I get up, I go to F45 every morning. I'm happy to say that this morning was my 200th F45 session. So a lot of health, personal health thing. One of the things that I've actually learned through my career is when you start letting yourself go, so does your business, starts to go with it. So, you know, big focus on personal health, what we eat, all that sort of stuff. So morning starts, work out, come home, walk the dog, do that sort of stuff, and then I'll turn my phone on and start work. So it's always about being a little selfish first thing in the morning. Just making sure that whoever I deal with during the day is going to get the best version of me.

[A]

I love that. I love that. I actually have the very similar routine with a competitor of F45 who I think is going to probably put out F45. God bless you, Mark Wahlberg, for putting together F45. But Nike Studios just opened in Newport Beach. I think I've, I'm also on my like 60th class as well. And I go every single morning to that as well. I love starting my day that way. It just gets you fired up. So, yeah, we're going to dive deep because you were talking about the excitement of the, what recently transpired and with the NAR settlement. So let's like, let's take it because that's what everyone wants to hear about and, and your perspective on this settlement because you're coming from Australia, a country where this sort of real estate transaction has already been the usual, you know, this has already been the thing. So explain to people why you're excited about these rapid changes.

[B]

I mean, I think the excitement is probably more of the positive attitude towards it because, I mean, I think this scenario is always going to happen at some point. I mean, everywhere else in the world. It's a market condition that always changes. You know, our industry sort of got to a level where it was kind of accepting media which unpopular opinion. But it's true. I mean, we had a lot of people that were part time. It was sort of like the entry level to being a realtor wasn't that high. And I think it was always going to get to a point where the buyers and the sellers were going to get a little frustrated and there was going to be a necessary change. And it happened in Australia probably nearly 15 years ago. But it was a market condition that changed it. The market was crazy hot two, three days on the market buyers were missing it on properties. So it was basically 2020 and 2021 all over again. And the buyers just got so frustrated with it, they just all went directly to the list agent and that's how they got their deals done. And they wanted their offers to be looked at. So that's where they went. Kind of exactly what we were dealing with in 2020 and 2021. And then that sort of deregulated the industry. And sure there was a few bumps in the road as you go through it, but I think I'm probably more excited about it because natural change is growth. You know, we've been sitting here doing the same thing for a few decades now and it has got to a point where it needs quite a significant change. The one thing I will say that was the most notable change when it happened was the average income of the agent went through the roof because you had to be way better at running your business. It couldn't be a part time gig. You had to have a plan for every single thing that you were doing. And the other reason why I'm probably really excited about it, Joe, is I'm a listing agent specialist. That's exactly what we focused on is really helping that side of the business. And so this impact is going to have a little bit more on the buying side of it than what it will on the, on the, you know, for the listing agents. And you know, I think any change is always good because it forces us into making those changes that we need to, you know, to stay on top of the market. I think I like the fact now that there's a definite date of things happening, you know, so the settlement for me, you know, whether we like it or not, has put a closure on what we're dealing with and we can now get on with business and start moving forward. So I think that's probably the most positive thing that's come out of that. But you know what, it's just going to make whole people accountable to doing their job properly, you know, and I think that's always a necessary thing in any industry to keep improving it. I'm really, I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens with it and how deal with it.

[A]

Yeah, I mean listen, change just that that's the only constant in life besides death.

[B]

I think you got to get used to it if you're not changing. You did. So it's exactly pretty much, yeah.

[A]

So I think it's going to give opportunities for realtors to evolve. But how do you think it's going to impact loan officers as well.

[B]

Value prop. You know, I think the, gone are the days now. The, you know, the old style MSAs paying for leads, things like that, you know, the lowbrail stuff just to try and keep in front of realtors, there's actually going to have to be some real true value there. And I think me personally, one of the biggest changes we'll see is the value in the buyer's agent is going to be flipping over to the listing agent. The value that you're going to get from your relationship is going to be heavily lent on the listing agent side through the number of people who will be going directly to the, to the, to the listing agent to get their offers looked at. So they'll have more direct access directly to the consumer than what the buyers will. I mean I always love to tell this, you know, joke about this, but my lender was the most critical part of my business. When I was selling real estate and like, you know, five and a half thousand transactions, you know, my lender was probably getting 90% of my business. I actually wouldn't even look at an offer unless it was cross qualified by my lender. And the, and people say like you can't do that. Well, I can do that because I'm contractually obligated to take care of my seller. And why would I present an offer to them that hadn't had a third party opinion on it? Because most pre approvals, we don't know what, you know, what's involved in it, we don't know what the debt that's gone into it. And I used to refer to it as a seller confidence call. So I'm not asking you to be cross qualified. I just need my lender to talk to your buyer so that I can give my seller some confidence when they look at your offer. And if you don't want to do it, I'll just let them know that refused and they'll take that into consideration when they're looking at your offer. We found time and time again they weren't on the best deal, they weren't getting the right rate, the product didn't suit what they were doing. My lender became the number one lender in the country because of that relationship. And I think people don't understand the power of the strength between the lender and the realtor. And if you get those relationships right and deep, your business will change overnight. I mean I was telling you this earlier, before we started, I had a business card made for my lender and his title was payroll. Because if he didn't do his job right, nobody got paid. I mean, his job was to make sure that every offer that we presented could close. There was going to be no hiccups at the end, which is what I'm contractually obligated to do for my client. And, you know, just having that relationship was important. He was bringing me 10 to 15 listings every month because the conversation around finance is way more powerful than the conversation around selling real estate. So it was opening more doors for me. And I think that's what's going to change is we're going to have to do a little bit more work, but the result is going to be tenfold. There's going to be a lot more benefit in having deeper relationships. So I think old traditional ways of MSAs and paying for leads and printing, marketing and things like that, those things are going to be gone and forgotten pretty quickly. And we're going to be looking for people that we can actually create true partnership with to really help grow the business. And, you know, we've been doing it for, you know, nearly a decade here in the US and you know, you do get a few people looking at you a little strange when you start doing it, but the results speak for themselves. We've got tons of, you know, lenders that we're working with that are doing over $100 million a year in volume. And a large portion of that volume comes from realtor relationships we're, we've created for them. So, you know, I'd like to joke about, I speak fluent Realtor, so I can explain the difference between the two, but I think having that real life experience of understanding what that relationship can do if you get it right, is a game changer.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

And I think it's probably one of the most flawed things that we've had. You know, we've had, you know, we've got, I mean, I've met so many realtors that have got lenders that they're doing, you know, they've got MSAs with or they've got some sort of marketing room where they wouldn't even do their own personal loan with them. Now that is an, that's a, that's a question in itself is like, why would you trust your business with that person? For me, most critical relationship, that's why we've had that crossover between the realtor and the lender. Because if we can get that right, that's a game changer for this industry.

[A]

You know, that's the misnomer that Realtors don't want to listen to lenders or create deep, meaningful relationships because they always have that mentality in their mind that that lender just wants to use them, you know, so they've never really been able to create solid relationships. And you know, my business partner, all of his success was from realtor relationships and establishing deep, meaningful relationships with his realtor partners. And that's that they fed him and they basically, you know, they had that kind of relationship. But 99.9% of loan officers sadly do not have that. And now, you know, they're either going to have to pivot to doing business this way or they're just going to have to exit. And it's exciting times for me who I always look to seek the top talent, you know, and I always, you know, even within my organization we have 900 loan officers. I wish we had 200, you know, because 900, it's just like, it's like death by numbers. You know, you got 900 people, 200, 700 of them do, might be doing this part time. I mean, all my business comes from the 200, right. So brokerage was the same.

[B]

And I actually made a decision probably about two or three years into it, and I said, I've made a conscious decision. I'm not recruiting any more people. I don't want to bring another person on. And my whole focus, I'm not changing my recruiting strategy, but I'm going to start re recruiting the people that I've got. Because I worked out that it was going to be way cheaper to add 25% to the bottom line of the people I've already got than to bring 25% more people on. So I just reverted my business back to like I'm going to get this person from, you know, 10 transactions a month to 15. That's going to help me with my bottom line. It was way cheaper, way more effective and build such a huge sustainable business, you know, because it's always the thing, we're always looking for, new bodies, new people, but why not just invest a little bit more on what you've already got? And that's always been a business philosophy for me. Even when I'm selling real estate, running all my different companies, it's always about investing in what I've got. I'm not going to aggressively go and try more and more people that I've got to get my culture and reengage, reeducate. Why not take the ones that I've got that I already trust and believe in and just grow Those. And I mean, if I even think back when I was a young guy selling real estate, I used to look at every single client going, how do I make this client and turn them into somebody that's going to bring me 10 new deals rather than just wait for them to sell another property? How do I create a relationship with them that no matter what they do, they keep talking about me, my lender, my relationships, the people I've connected them with. And that's a talent, that's an art. And I was able to do that in my real estate brokerage with my agents teaching them to do very, very similar things. It's people.

[A]

Yeah. I'm going to ask you this. So you started your mega producer in Australia. How'd you get started selling real estate in Australia?

[B]

I'm a very truthful person, Joe, so I'll tell you the whole story about this. So I'm a. I was a coated welder by trade and you mentioned in the intro that I was, you know, working in the mines of Australia and I was. I was a coated welder. I was one of two or three people that could do a very specific type of welding. If anybody's ever been to the outback of Perth, Western Australia, it is just miserable. It's 125 degrees, it's stinking hot. That's dead flat, horrible.

[A]

I've only been an Outback Steakhouse, so.

[B]

It'S not quite the same. Yeah, we don't have a blooming onion in Australia. That's one thing I know for a fact. But at the time, ironically, the reason I got into real estate was my lender said, oh, you should be pretty good at this, you should look at buying a house. But when I was getting into real estate, but when I was growing up as a kid, my best friend's mum was a realtor and I didn't actually know she was a realtor, but I always remember thinking to myself, I don't know what she does for a job, but whatever she does, that's what I want to do. Because she has nice cars and she drives around and has coffee with people every day. So whatever she does for a job, that's what I want to do. And I found out she was a realtor. So, I mean, when I got into real estate, I had no idea what I was doing. I had the red shirt, the red. Like, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. So I think a lot of that was a part of the asset. It was sort of blind ignorance, jumped into it and thought. And then the very first thing I thought when I got into the business and I saw a lot of the people that were selling real estate and I thought, these people can make this sort of money doing this, then this is going to be a pretty cool place for me to be. But I also looked at real estate as not a career that I wanted to have forever. When I got into real estate, I looked at it as the best vehicle for me to make the revenue that I needed to go on to. Always been very entrepreneurial. Started my first business when I was 17, failed miserably. But for me it was the entrepreneurial spirit. I've always wanted to have my own companies and do certain things. And I looked at real estate as that uncapped potential for me to do whatever I needed to do to get the revenue to grow and do the things I want to do in my life. And it gave me the platform that I needed to expand and go global and do all the things that I'm doing now. And for me, real estate was not a passion. I ended up loving it once I got into it because it was a pretty easy job to have, but it was the uncapped earning potential. I was responsible for everything. Whatever I put in play, I was responsible for it. So it just gave me the ability to be able to take some chances and try some things that people weren't prepared to do.

[A]

So awesome. So let's talk about that international expansion. Like you started at Harcourt in Australia and they brought you in, they actually made you the CEO. What year was that?

[B]

So that would have been 2006. Probably 2006, we started talking about it. So my real estate brokerage was under the franchise brand, Harcourt's franchise brand at the time it was, and I owned it. Well before that we were just a small boutique type licensed brand in Western Australia and that's all where it was. And then Harcourt's bought that brand. At that point, I was the number one office in the country. And basically they said, hey, look, if you don't want to be here, there's, you know, it's really up about seeing what the vault, you know, what the value offering is. So I did a ton of research. Incredible company offering a lot of things. And I realized I could actually save a ton of money by using all their resources. And so as I grew that business and then I made the decision to sell it, a lot of people ask me why I sold it in the peak of the markets. Because I had a, an opportunity to do it. I had some people that really wanted to buy it. And then I thought I was going to retire. I actually thought I was going to go do something else and, you know, invest in some businesses. And after two weeks, I was absolutely bored to tears. Joe. I needed something to do. And the owner of Harcourt at that time, we'd always joked about this. He goes, when you decide to get out of this thing, let's take this thing global. And it was always just a bit of a joke, just a couple of guys chatting. And so we had a couple of phone calls about this and we said, let's do it. And so I just picked up, moved to Brisbane, went to the other side of Australia in my first task was China. So young Kiwi boy dropped in the middle of Shanghai and let's have a go at this thing. So it was kind of on a bit of a whim. The whole decision happened at about three weeks.

[A]

And you were already appointed CEO at the time?

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

And then you brought Harcourts over to.

[B]

The US I went from. I went to China, I went to South Africa, Brazil, Indonesia, Dubai, all these other places. And then we had an opportunity to buy a real estate company here in the us and as the international CEO, I was coming over here to set it up. I was going to hire a support team, a CEO, and have somebody here to run it. And I was running all the other countries. And I actually fell in love with the place. You know, I mean, hey, I mean, I landed in Newport beach. You know, my head office was in, you know, Dana Point. And I'm sitting there thinking, like, this is the nicest place I've been in a long time. And I started to feel very, very comfortable. And so when we're starting to look for the CEO, I remember sitting there one night thinking I could actually see myself living here. So I had to chat to my business partner and I said, look, this is something. I think I'd like to take over the business here in the us And I said, but here's my deal. I'm only going to do it for two or three years. I'll grow it. And at the end of that point, I'm going to want to transition out of it. And that day came around very, very quickly. And that was 2010, and I've never left.

[A]

So it's like, I don't meet a lot of Aussies here in the U.S. usually, they're pretty happy with where they're at. Australia is not too bad.

[B]

I was born in New Zealand, but all my business was in Australia. So I've still got the Kiwi roots, but I think the traveling to all those different countries, Joe, really helped. But never. And I think that even my wife will probably admit to this, is that I've lived in so many different countries, and this one was the only one that I felt settled. Like, I've really felt like this was a place for me, but I had never really been anywhere where I had the intention of staying. But I think for me, the opportunities in the US Are great. I mean, they're incredible. You've got so many great entrepreneurial people. The opportunities are there. You know, if you can get your own sort of mindset about what you're trying to do, believe in your, you know, your strategies, and really have a go, there's more opportunities to succeed here than there are anywhere else in the world. And for me, that was just an opportunity that was too good to pass up.

[A]

That's awesome. Really rapid expansion in. In the US all over the country, actually, globally. You got. You. You took Harcourts to rapid global expansion. How'd you do that?

[B]

Just blind faith and no fear of anything, Joe. Like, I think I've. One of the. I think the skills that I've had as a. Even as a young kid, I've never had a lot of fear of anything. I've got no fear in asking the right question. Talking to the wrong person doesn't really bother me. And I think, you know, that's the old saying, you don't know until you try. And, you know, I think one of the best opportunities I've ever had. And I always tell people there's a lot more technical detail to the story, but, you know, the whole opportunity that happened in China happened because I met the guy's brother at a taxi cab in Singapore. And, like, it wasn't no great relationship. It was the old, you know, my brother's in real estate, you should reach out to him type of thing. The old business card, most people would throw it away. And I remember sitting there thinking, what the hell have I got to lose? Let's make a phone call. Ended up being involved in one of the biggest developers in China. And so that opened the door for a conversation. And then I just. I'm like you, Joe. If there's an opportunity, I'm gonna chase it. And I just went after it. And I'm one of these people that would rather fail at it and then know the facts than to just get too scared of it before I tried.

[A]

Yeah. So you're. You're a big risk taker, cautious risk.

[B]

Taker, but I'm gonna try it. I need. I need proof that something's not gonna work. Like, I'm. I'm a big believer in show me, don't tell me. So, like, I need proof that something's not gonna work, because it may not have worked for you, but it might work for me, depending on how I approach doing it. And that was always my philosophy in business. I mean, you're telling me the way that you did it, but it might not work for you. But if I made a change to it so that it worked for my personality, my delivery, I could get a different result. So. And it was just something I really embedded in myself, that I need social proof. I need real proof that something's not going to work before I'll give up on it. And so for me, I need someone to look me in the eye and go, there's no way this is ever going to happen, rather than just assume it's going to be that way. I remember when I first went to China, they wouldn't speak to me for the first three months. You know, I had an interpreter that was always. Never. As soon as I started challenging them on a few things and put some real sort of tough conversations in front of them, all of a sudden the English came out and we were on the right track, and I managed to open 160 offices. But my realization was never going to be the business. It was breaking through the people, because people control everything. And it wasn't really what I knew about real estate or growing a business. It was getting the right people on the ground to do the right things. And so my whole goal was just finding the people that had the access and the ability to do the things that I wasn't able to do. It's not like I'm going to go to China and automatically open 100 offices. You know, don't speak the language. It's not really my thing. But I could find the people that could help me, guide me through that process. And that was the same thing that we did everywhere else that we went in the world. Find the right people.

[A]

Yeah, that master networker. And you're still a master networker, even more so now than ever.

[B]

Just like people. I mean, people's always been my product. The biggest mistake. And I think just to share, like, a backstory, Joe, when I. When I first got into real estate, I was a young kid. I had no idea what I was doing. You know, I've been in the business about three years. My ego was out of control. I Was super unhealthy. I was 160 pounds actually. My wife showed me an old photo the other night. I looked at it, I had to put it away real quickly. It didn't even look like me. But you know, I got very unhealthy. But my ego was driving everything. Like I thought my reputation was based on my volume and what I was doing. And I actually got home one night and made the decision I was going to quit. Like, I hate this job. I'm working 90 hours a week. This just doesn't work for me. You know, I was making great money, I was a young guy, but I was burning myself out real fast. And I actually making that decision to quit, my sort of values kicked in and thought, well, you're not a quitter. Like if you could actually get your business down to 40 hours a week, would you still do it? And I sort of think to myself, I absolutely would. Sure, I'd take a bit of a drop in my income, but at 40 hours a week I could live my life. I could be healthy and enjoy myself. And so rather than chase volume, I looked at every single thing I did in my business and I thought, let's just reduce the time we spend on it. Like I'll break everything down on my communication, my business strategies, everything I do. Let's break it down from a time management standpoint. And so I went through everything in my business, did that and I was averaging about 15 to 20 deals a month at that point. And within a year I was averaging 60 deals a month by focusing on time management, the non chasing deals. And I did that for over a decade. And that was where I got my big aha moment. Like we chased the wrong thing. Like for me, I thought success was money and I had plenty of money. But I wasn't in my mind, I wasn't successful, I was miserable, I was unhappy. I was just working really, really hard. And I sort of realized that the success that I wanted was based on my freedom. I needed freedom of choice. I needed to be able to get up one day and say, today my day, I'm going to get out and go do something different. And that's when I realized that's what really drove me in my business was just making things better. Like if something's. And I always joke about it, but it's kind of true, I'm the laziest person you'll ever meet, which doesn't mean I won't do it. But every single time I see something and do something, I want to try and find a better, smoother, more efficient way to do it. Because I realize that every hour that I've got is the most valuable commodity. You know, spending time with my kids, I've got grandkids now. You know, spending time with my wife, you know, things that I missed out on when I was growing my business where I didn't need to. And that's really what we're trying to share with people now. It doesn't matter what your skill level is, what your upbringing is, what your beliefs are. Everybody can be super successful if they actually understand what they're really, really good at. And for me, that's what it was. It was just breaking things down and understanding how I could deliver them better. And for me, that was a massive turning point in my life because I realized I just focused on the wrong thing. Have people support you, and you're going to be fine no matter what you do.

[A]

So you. You retired from Harcourt, you started this math. You brought this massive company, one. I mean, Harcourt's International real estate brokerage, and you took it global. And you're like, you're done. You retired, then you. Then why did you start another company? What inspired you to go back into the grind after you were already in retirement?

[B]

Well, retirement lasted about two weeks, just so, you know. So, I mean, but I think it's. It's like, what would you go do? But, I mean, I love what I do, Joe. Like, I think, you know, I've asked myself that a few times, but I love being busy. I love talking to people. I love helping people. And, you know, and I think for me, it's a passion thing. You never, ever give up on something you really believe in and passionate. And if money's the reason you stopped doing it, I think you weren't passionate about it before you started it. Like, there is nothing in my life that's for sale when I say that, like, there's no amount of money that would stop me doing what I'm doing. All it does is just gives me a little bit more freedom to do other things. But it all comes down to the underlying fact I love what I do. I love sitting in front of somebody that's, you know, maybe a year ago was struggling to pay their bills, struggling to, you know, get through certain things, and having them now at the point where they've got a new home, the kids are going to private school, that's kind of what drives the ego. And I realized that very early in my career, even when I was number one agent, you know, I was Getting up, getting the accolades, it was a very nerve wracking thing. I actually didn't like it. I didn't like really like the attention and it wasn't until I stopped selling and brought my brokerage and I was seeing these new agents getting up there and getting awards and they were making this great income that my heart really felt full. Like I felt like this is what I was making. It was really just to help people learn from my experiences. And I actually think I'm a better person when I'm doing it. You know, like I physically can't play enough golf and I can't go do that. Doesn't I get very short attention span to it? I was like building and developing things and you know, for me I don't think there ever will be a day that I retire. And my wife actually asked me if you a few months ago, she goes, when will you stop? And I said, the day everybody starts doing everything we ask them to do is the day that I'll stop. So she read that really loud and clear as to exactly what that meant.

[A]

Never happened, never going to happen, Never.

[B]

And I just love it, Joe. I mean I, I've thought about it but you know, boredom's horrible for me. I got to keep the brain working and keeps you young, it keeps you alive, keeps you sharp.

[A]

Because you come back from F45 fired up, what do you, if you come back fired up, what are you going to go do?

[B]

I'm a very addictive person to. And I'm into something, I'm into it. It's like it's, it's pretty full on.

[A]

So yeah, you know, it's so great the show. Like I come and I sit down with like all the leaders of industry, all the best of the best entrepreneurs and you know, the conversations are always stirred in that direction. Like they're just driven. Money doesn't drive them, they don't care about money. They want to win, they want to help others, they want to succeed. They want, you know, their, their satisfaction and joy is in helping others win.

[B]

Yeah. And you'll always find your people, I think, you know, those that are driven by money, I think the tenure of doing that is very short lived. You get one loss, one win and you know, you end up being where you are. But I think if you're always doing the right thing, you're doing the right thing by people, your success is inevitable. Like if you're doing the right thing, you're being honest, you're getting up every day doing exactly what you Know, you know, you need to do, you're going to get what you deserve. And I think, I still don't think I'm finished. I still think there's bigger things around the corner, there's still greater opportunities and there's still things to learn. Our industry is always evolving, it's always changing. And I think for me it came down to the point is I wanted to have some sort of legacy at the end of it. I wanted something that my grandkids would look back on and go, that was my grandfather and be proud of it. And I still don't think I'm done. I still haven't done it yet.

[A]

So what do you think? What, what is the ideal legacy that you want your want to be remembered.

[B]

For changing the perception of this industry? I think, you know, it's always this, you know, you've either got to be a social media person or you've got to be an old school type of thing. I think it's really about showing anybody that doesn't matter what they do, if you actually, number one, believe in who you are and what you're good at, that anybody can create a lifestyle that they want. Because it's a lot of people go, I just don't have the money or I don't have the ability to go on social media, I don't have the ability to do that, or I don't have a network of people. I started in a country where I didn't even know my neighbor. And within a year, I mean, I made a million dollars in my first 12 months in selling real estate because my whole focus was just meeting people. It wasn't about, you know, I had no network, I didn't have anybody. So for me it's just showing people that there's always a way to be successful. And I think it's, it's eliminating the excuses. I mean, that's why we created the company Sell. Well, because I think anybody can do it. I don't believe there's a single person that can't be a successful salesperson if they actually understand what they're truly really good at.

[A]

That's what I was going to ask you next. Now, now a lot of people are like, what is Sell? Because Selwell is not a real estate company and it's not a traditional coaching kind of platform. So explain to the crowd what is so. Because it's, it was a hobby for you. This was just fun.

[B]

I always credit my wife for this. And you know, I've got a couple of companies and We've got a consultancy group where, you know, generally I've been working exclusively with, you know, really high performing realtors and lenders. And generally that threshold was about 100 million. And that's, and that's not because it's a good place to work. It was just that was when the business strategy starts to become a problem that's all of a sudden you start losing control of your life at that sort of money because of the hours and the things that you've got to do. And so the consultancy part of it was that was my retirement plan. I was going to do this. I had a select group of clients that I was working with and you know, I've had clients with me for nearly a decade now. So I've actually these really great relationships with people that have really helped grow their business. And my wife got up one day and said, you know, what's wrong with this industry and the real estate industry specifically was that there's all these great people that are getting into this business and they're doing it to provide better lives for their families. And their options are probably two things. Go and find a coach that's never sold real estate, pay them 1,500 bucks a month and see if they can show you how to do it. Or go get every dollar that you've got and invested in lead gen, which is not going to work. And that's their starting point to real estate. And she said, there's got to be a better way to do it. So we created SellWell, which was basically everything that I did in my business. And we just basically handed to them on a plate, they paid for it and off they went and did their own thing. And what we realized was people weren't really looking for the what to do. And I think that's what our industry's riddled with. Here's what you should do every day, but nobody's shown them how to do it. So we developed this whole thing around the how to part. Like, I know it's hard to make your phone calls, but here's how you're actually going to go about doing it. Here's a way of actually making it work for you. And then we surveyed all our realtors about two or three years ago and said like, what are you actually going to need for the next foreseeable future? 12, 24 months? What do you think you need more than anything? And we thought they were going to be looking for Legion, all the typical things. And the bulk of the people came back and said they Wanted leadership and support. And it wasn't stuff and it wasn't products. And we're in this era now where we've got all these sort of 100% places, and you just fly on your own. You're all remote. You don't have to go anywhere. So that culture and production was kind of getting lost. And so we realized we needed to make a change. And so Sellwell's now called the club Sellwell, which is a coaching club. We do live calls. We have all sorts of, you know, we have wealth managers coming in. We talk them all about, you know, human nature, you know, human intelligence, body language, all sorts of things to actually understand how the client works. Along with all the coaching in every single thing I did in my business. We have a full marketing department. So. And that's not that as a monetary thing. That was more. Because that's the biggest time waster in people's business, sitting down, trying to develop things. So it was more about getting people out in front of it. And then all of a sudden, it just grew into this community of people supporting and helping each other. And we've got quite a few thousand agents going through it at the moment, 6,500 or so. And it's just been one hell of a lot of fun, Joe, because I think it was like, we get so focused on the what where everybody knows what they should do every day. But sometimes the how part changes everything.

[A]

Yeah, you could preach until you're blue in the face.

[B]

Nobody's knows they're gonna make an hour's worth of phone calls every day. But how do you do it if you hate doing it? That's the part that people don't do it. And so then they go learn scripts. I mean, we're adults. If you have to know what to say to somebody when you're having a conversation before you have the conversation, you're dead in the water before you get started. I still swear I've got the greatest script in the world. It say hello and shut the hell up. Because the conversation starts then, right? And you get a response. You got something to interact with. But if all you're doing is firing out 15 different things to somebody, you don't even give them a chance to think or respond. And so we're just teaching people how to be better at who they are and what they do.

[A]

I mean, we've had best script ever, say hello, shut up, Just let them respond.

[B]

The conversation starts. But we had, you know, and this is probably the proudest thing that we've We've had since our world was founded was we in 2022, we had 50 agents. 52. I think that in their first 12 months in the real estate industry, and all of those agents, the 52 of them did above 50 transactions in their first 12 months. And that's, for me, was what real success is. This is somebody, you know, creating a better lifestyle, creating a financial future for themselves. And you know what? It was just doing things the hard way, you know, learning what worked for them, building a business around them. Because I don't think any one person can replicate somebody else. I mean, I know people could try and replicate what I did, but they're not me. They don't have my personality. And so something that we've always focused on is every single one of those realtors is different. They need something different. We need to be able to build businesses around the individual because we have that one unique talent which is just to be the best versions of us. And so if we can create that, anything's possible.

[A]

I love that. I love that. So, you know, you've created this incredible community. Now. What do you think? Like, what do you think the biggest source of inspiration for you developing this community? Like, what. What was it that made me. Made you go and your aha moment, like, I'm gonna do this because it's. There's nothing like, sell well in the country.

[B]

And I think it was the response from people wanting support and, you know, you know, needing some help and some leadership and some support. And I think that was really the real eye opener for me, because, I mean, we could have gone down the same route as everybody else and just had an online coaching program which just fed stuff out and you go it at your own pace and not really caring about what the results. But, you know, when we sort of start talking to people and they say, we just need someone to help me on a bad day, and, you know, I just need somebody to give me some guidance and some leadership. And if people had the availability to get that on a very regular basis, there'd be a lot less traumatic results in this industry. And I think that really just sort of brought me back to my roots of what I was really passionate about. Running my real estate brokerage was just helping people get to the next level. And, you know, it really came down to just giving people a safe place to go, like a place where they could go and they could open up about things they were struggling with and get some really good, honest feedback on how to, you know, get to the right results. They Wanted the truth.

[A]

So with all the success you've seen and the transition to sell well, like what sort of additional changes do you foresee in the, in the real estate sector, in the mortgage sector, in the entire, you know, you know, say, financial sector?

[B]

This change that I think we'll see and this is something that I, you know, I've seen this a little bit in Australia, South Africa and a few of the other countries. Is the entry level to be in the industry, I think is going to get elevated. I think it's not going to be quite as easy to become a Realtor and I think that's a necessary thing. I think it needs to get to a point where there needs to be a little bit more involved in it.

[A]

And I was going to have my kids all take their real estate exam as soon as they take their driver's license.

[B]

I'm going to do it pretty quickly. That could take some time. Honestly, the quality of the industry is going to change because, I mean, we, you know, we've got, you know, NAR 1.5 million plus members right now. Probably 70% of those are part timers. I mean, the average income for a realtor in the US is less than 30 grand, I believe at the moment. And that tells you something.

[A]

I mean, that says a lot. I thought it was less than actually 30 grand because I, a couple of.

[B]

Years ago it was 22. And so it's people doing those one or two deals a year and people are going, well, this is really, really tough on us. But most people got their license because they had a friend or a family member that wanted to buy a home and they could see an easy amount of commission. That sort of thing will disappear and you'll actually be looking for someone who can actually provide true value. Your team will no longer be real estate and mortgage. I think the real estate and mortgage business is going to get a lot tighter, a lot closer, and you're going to get a lot more particular about who you deal with. It won't just be a feast or a famine. We won't be doing these like anybody come work with us. It'll be a job interview. Like, if I'm going to invest in you and I'm going to work with you, I'm going to want to know what's coming to the table. So I can see those partnerships changing dramatically. I can just see the elevation of the industry as a whole changing. The next six months to a year could be a little bumpy though. I mean, as people start to settle into the New changes. And I think the biggest trouble we've got for the next six months is just a lack of the correct information. I mean, we've got everybody freaking out at the moment about the early release of the, you know, what the new rules and things are going to be. And the reality of it is our industry hasn't changed. I mean, the only thing that's really changing is you can't promote how much you're paying. And you're going to have to have somebody on a buyer broker agreement if you're working with them, which is actually fundamentally how your business should have run in the first place. So we're just going to be held a lot more accountable to doing the right thing. And it has needed a change for a long time. Has needed a change.

[A]

That's good to hear. It's good to hear from someone like you, with your reputation now just to like, really outline it for los Listening to this, this and who are watching live. What kind of opportunity do you think that this is going to present to a loan officer?

[B]

You know, true value. I think there's a lot of loan officers out there that, you know, that have gotten into that framework of it's all about price, it's all about who's got the lowest interest rates, and that's a portion of it. But I think it's now going to come down to value. It's who's going to sit beside me and support me and actually help me grow my business. I think this is the greatest opportunity for a loan officer that this industry has seen in a decade.

[A]

Rewind, rewind, rewind. He just said this is the greatest opportunity a loan officer has seen in a decade. You heard that here on Coffees Foreclosers First.

[B]

When you think about how many loan officers are paying for leads, paying for Zillow leads, paying for lunches at offices. They go in there, they come back, they're all frustrated that not a single one of them talked to them. And you know, that's, that's very lowball activities. It's going to come down to. Now, who's the loan officer who's prepared to invest in growing a relationship? You imagine sitting down with a realtor right now, not saying, hey, can I pay for some leads or do some marketing, saying, look, if you're really serious about growing your business and you really want to add some more volume to it, go after some listings. I think I've got an opportunity. Would you like to sit down with me and let me show you how I can actually Help you grow your business. Who's not going to sit down and talk to you? The only people that are going to talk to you in the real estate business that want you to pay for leads or the realtors not doing any business. Because the realtor that's doing the business does not need you to pay for leads. He wants you to help you grow your business. So it's going to force us into dealing with the right people. The one thing I will tell everybody, and this is going to be a point of opinion, is the listing agent is the lender's gold mine. And I know for years it hasn't been. We think there's an alloy. We go straight after the buyer's agent that's dealing direct with the consumer. The biggest change that's going to happen is that there's going to be a major portion of our sales are going to be directed with the listing agent. And the LOS that have the relationships of strength of the listing agents are going to get a lot more value. You think about 50 people showing up to an open home underrepresented by a buyer, buyer's agent, who are they going to. Because that listing agent ain't chasing those people. He's trying to find the one person who wants to buy it. My listing home process, my open home process was this. Joe. When I did an open home, I had 50 people come through. The very first person that called them was my lender. You just reach out and say, hey, part of Aaron's process, you just met him in an open home. I handle the financial aspect of his business. Just want to reach out, see if he had any questions about mortgages. If there's anything I can help you with. His conversion ratio on that process was 25%. Because there's not another lender doing the same thing. The value of the listing agent and the lender is going to be the most valuable thing in your business. You imagine having five listing agents that were doing five to ten deals a month. How many people do you think are going through those opens on the weekend without market? The way it is right now, that lead volume you cannot buy online.

[A]

And they're all high quality, qualified, thinking.

[B]

About buying or thinking about selling it. But most of my clients, even when they were doing refinances, homes that I'd sold for, people they were still connecting with my lender, my lending relationship was a lifetime thing. My past clients, future clients, everybody, you know, all my past clients, when the rates would come down, who do you think they went through for a refi yeah, it was to him because that relationship was so important. Now we do specialize on the listing side. That's something we've, you know, very, very open about at Sell. Well, is we do help buyers agents, but we help them become listing agents. And I've been waiting for this for a long time because the listing is the strength of the business. It's the thing that I know better than anything. And showing people how to become listing agents is the most powerful thing. And now that you have to be a listing agent to secure, you know, security of your paycheck. But we're also one of the very few companies, and I can't name another one that actually teaches Realtors how to understand the value of the lending relationship. Because whereas before, it's like, I mean, I spoke to somebody the other day, this is actually. This is very true for any lenders on the phone. Listen to this one. So I spoke to a Realtor and I said, you know, I was talking, you know, one of the clients that I was working with who was a lender. And she goes, I really like what he's got to offer, so I'm going to put him on my roster. And I go, okay, you've got my attention. Explain this roster thing. Then she goes, well, I've got five lenders on a roster. I've gone, okay, and what do they do for you? She goes, nothing. I said, well, how many deals did you do last year? She goes, three. And I've gone, so you've got five lenders on a roster for the three deals. I said, why would you even expect anything value from them? I said, why would you not have one and expect them to do everything and actually help them grow your business? And it was like this whole shock on her face going, well, the more lenders I've got, the more opportunities. I said, but the opportunity's got to work both ways. You know, a great partnership is two people adding value to the relationship, not somebody that. And I would guarantee you that all five of those lenders made about 10 times the amount of money that that Realtor did. And it's the lenders groveling around trying to get that one Realtor's business, like.

[A]

One guy having five girlfriends. Well, you're not going to have a very good relationship with any of them.

[B]

I said, it's kind of like asking your last five girlfriends to go out on a date just so you can reminisce about past things. But I mean, it's just changing the dynamic of it. And it was like And I'm glad that I did that in an open forum because it was, there was, the room was full of real moment for.

[A]

All realtors who think they all by the way, think like that.

[B]

They do.

[A]

They don't realize that the value of the relationship is reciprocated. And that lender is going to grind for you if you know how to monetize, but they don't listen to the lender.

[B]

You've got to give the lender the opportunity to help you grow. And this is where the challenge is. I think most people think the real the lender's value is at the time of the transaction. I don't think that's completely false. My lender was always available at the time of the transaction. But where my lender was the most amount of value was my database. My follow up, all the communication. And I would reach out to everybody in my database and say, hey, look, now that you're in my network, it does give you some pretty cool privileges. And one of those is you get to have direct access with the person who handles all the financial part of my business. I'd never use the word lender because everybody's got a lender now when I give it some sort of stability of saying he handles that financial part of it. And I'd always say to him, look, if you need some advice, a second opinion, just somebody to bounce an idea off when it comes to the financial part of your home, your mortgage, anything that you're trying to do in the future, he's your go to guy. Because I trust him with my own personal stuff. And he was talking to everybody in my database. My database was huge and he was generating so much business from that. But what I discovered from it is that most people start thinking about what their financial commitments are before they decide to buy. And now a Realtor's getting involved way too late. So my business grew because I was actually in communication with what they were trying to do probably three to six months before anybody else was there because of what my lender was doing. Because it's way easier to go, well, if I refinance, where would I go? Or if I sold and you know, do I get out of the capital gains bracket? Like those aren't questions that me as a realtor should be asking, answering. They should be done by my financial partner in my business. But you actually have to show realtors how to do that. And I always love it for this one reason that the immediate objection for a realtor is I've already got a realtor I don't need you. That's how they get rid of you. But for a lender, they go, I'm not a buyer, I'm a seller. And that's exactly what I wanted to hear. So every time my lender would call the open home leads, they go, sorry. It's okay. We're actually, we're a seller, we're not a buyer. So at the end of the day, I get a list of every single person that I met that was a seller that had lied to me in the face standing in the open home. And people just don't understand the power of having those relationships. I would meet with them three times a week. We'd go through the database, talk about everybody we'd communicated with, who was the next person possibly ready to do a deal. And it was the most powerful relationship in my business. Now, I will say this, and this gets people a little bit off. I did, you know, I was averaging about 700 odd transactions a year. I had one team member. I did not have 15 buyers, agents. I had myself and my assistant. He was the equivalent of five people, just so you know. But we did have a marketing team in the office and they handled that for everybody else. But it was process driven. Everything was so systematic. The minute we met somebody, client profiling starts. They go into the specific type of database. Communication plans are set up the minute the property closed. Same, same, same all the way through. And there was a place for everybody to go. It was the most smoothest business ever because it had to be refined to fit into those timeframes. You don't need a team of 50 people. You need some good people. Now, I had my marketing, but, you know, when I say I had two people on my team, my lender was critical. He was doing the same work as what probably two or three buyers, agents would do. You know, my title, my escrow, you know, my marketing team in the office. Like, it's so easy to run a really, really effective business if you actually sort of start opening your mind to different ways to do things. Toyed with it for a lot of, a lot of years and got really, really good at it.

[A]

You're a brilliant guy. You're gonna, you know, you're gonna help lead a lot of our loan officers to the light to navigate how to really take advantage of all the new opportunities that are going to be presented in the new real estate landscape. Because the doomsdayers, I'm stoked the doomsdayers are going to exit.

[B]

Yeah, they're gonna, I Think it needed to happen. I think the, you know, like I said I was telling you earlier, I mean, the last 48 hours, I've probably spoken to the best part of maybe three, three and a half thousand agents. And there's a real divide in the middle, the ones that are still worried about the problem. You know, our first solution session starts tomorrow because, I mean, I think the problem's always been here. The solution is what we need to be focused on. And we've always had the solution for it because it was always coming. It was always going to happen. You know, all of my listing agents are calling me now going, man, we're so far ahead of this thing. This is incredible. We don't even have to worry about it. It's because we've been working on it for months. So at some point it was going to happen. But even if it didn't happen, it's still the necessary way to run your business. We should always have a better relationship with our lender. It's the person getting the money to buy the home. Like, I mean, without that happening, it doesn't happen. I mean, my list to close ratio, my ratio to fall out of escrow was minimal compared to anybody else's because of the prep work we put in leading up to it. That's the right lending relationship. Those are the things that people really need to be educated on so they can understand the power of how that works. And it changes everything. Everything's so quick. So quick. And it's beneficial for both sides.

[A]

This is awesome. This is awesome content. And I think that, you know, our loan officers and the loan officers listening to the show today just need to get ahead of it. They need to really understand how to bring value to those agents, how to create deep, meaningful relationships. And I know that's something that sellwell does. And sellwell does it very well. You guys are the best in class in doing it. And, you know, I'm excited for tomorrow's Mastermind session where we're going to have, you know, a lucky winner to do an event with sellwell and just to start to capitalize and monetize and understand the prominence and building these relationships. I have a couple last questions and, you know, they're basically kind of about you. Now. We're not going to talk about business. So what do you do to unwind and kind of like slow your brain down? You're at this. You're going a million miles an hour. You're just like me. So what do you do to relax? Unwind?

[B]

I've actually got really, really good at it. If you'd asked me that question about five years ago, I'd probably be being very honest. I'd say I don't know how to do it, you know, like. And I think you've got to teach yourself to turn off. I always remember one of the best bits of advice I've ever got is I'm a perpetual learner. I'm always trying to, you know, I'm always studying things, I'm always trying to work out how things work. And I was always reading motivational books and different things and different business strategies. And one of my mentors said, you gotta tune out, like you gotta start reading some crap. You started getting into some fantasy stuff or something like that, you know, some, some, you know, sci fi things. You've got to try and shut your brain down. So you know, for me, when I've taught myself now when I'm out, I'm out, I turn off and I think and I have to do it for the respect of my family. But five years ago I couldn't. I do a lot of. I go to saunas. I mean I'm a big fan of purse by a sauna. You find me most afternoons, 5:30, 6:00, I'll go down there for 40 minutes and it's just a heat, just so you'll find your thing. And I think people, they look at it very, very different. But when I was in business, I can actually give you a really good tip. And we always talk about planning and growth and one of the best strategies that I've ever employed with my people is how you end your day is way more important than how you started. And so my most critical appointment when I was selling real estate, so this is when I couldn't turn my brain off, was at 5:30, 6:00 every day. I go back to my calendar and this is the most important appointment I make my calendar actual. So I put everything in my calendar that I've done and when I say the calendar that I've done, if I had an hour appointment from 10 to 11 and it went to 11:30, I change it. I went on and look at my calendar. It's got to be exactly what I've done for that day. And then I look at everything that I've done and go right, how do I shorten everything? Like, why did that appointment run over? What happened there? Why did that work? And I call that my time thief. How do I go back and steal 15 minutes from everything that's happened in my day or why did it run over? And so every day I was constantly improving. I'd take all my emails, file them where they needed to go, I'd take every note, put it in my calendar, you know, put all my database away and I'd make sure that my inbox was empty because if my inbox wasn't empty, I'd be waking up thinking about all my emails. And all I wanted to do was wake up in the morning and just deal with today business. And so once I started bringing that and it gave me the ability to try and wind down because closure is very important. I think most of us get to the end of the day, go, thank God that's over and we start again tomorrow. Like you've got to end it, you got to finish it, right? Like follow up your calls, do everything you need to do and have a definite sort of turn off. But now for me, come 6:00, you know, 5:30, 6:00, I'm going to make purposely shut down. I'll go for a sauna, go for a walk with a wife or walk the dog. I'm doing everything I can. Getting outside is a big part of it as well, like getting a bit of fresh air and doing things like that. But I like variety. I like to do something different every day. But I think you've just got to get out of your, out of your own environment, like sitting in your office, just got to get up and keep moving. But you know, I'm very good at it now though, Joe. I've got a very great way of just turning off, going like, tomorrow's another day, let's deal with it tomorrow. But I've also learned the hard lessons of what happens when you don't. And for me, when I wasn't turning off, I wasn't sleeping. I'd be waking up at 2:00 in the morning, oh, forgot to do that. There's always those aha moments or those things that you forget. And so what I realized, if I wasn't finishing my day right, my day would never finish and I'd get up in the next day, I'd be tired, I'd be worn out, and I just wasn't producing the right results. So just teaching myself to finish the day right was really, really important. That's given me that luxury now that when I'm done, I'm done. I just know that if I turn off that the people that I deal with first thing in the morning and I get a way better version of Me and that's the respectful thing that we've got to do. The most disrespectful thing we can do as entrepreneurs is give people a lesser version of who we are. I don't care how busy or how tired you are. If you don't show up giving me 100% you're not getting my business. And that's just always been a philosophy for me. But I give you the best version of me then there's a pretty good chance we won't do business together.

[A]

That's excellent, excellent advice, excellent advice. And I'm going to take a piece of that advice for myself. Now, two last questions and this next question actually is a three pronged question. It's just about your goals. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself? What's a family goal that you have for your family and what's a business goal that you have for Sellwell?

[B]

The interesting one, I'll answer the last one first is because I get asked that all the time, is the business goal for Sellwell? I like the fact that I don't have one because I still think that story is yet to be written, you know, because you know, it started as something to solve a problem, it solved that problem. There's always going to be more problems as we come along. You know, I think for me I just, at the end of the day I don't want it to be the greatest or the biggest coaching company in the country. I'm not interested in that. I just want it to be a place where people feel safe and it grows. That business leaves a legacy and I just, I still think that story has got to be written. But personal goals, you know, I'm kind of where I really dreamed I would be. Like I've got a beautiful wife, I've got great, I've got two wonderful daughters, I've got three grandkids, you know, my oldest grandson's just turned five. I've got twins, you know, they're starting to go off to school. You know, we built a new home about three or four years ago. I'm in that stage of my life now. When I wake up I feel pretty proud of where I'm at. I've never been a very materialistic person. I'm a comfort person. Like when I get up every day now I'm home and doing what I've done for the last, you know, 15 odd years. I've never really had that feeling of being at home because I was always in a different country. It was a Hotel. So I'm personal life, I'm at that level for my family. It's to never, ever. My grandkids and my daughters is to never have them want something ever again. Like we started. I started buying homes for them when I was in real estate so that they'd never have to work when they got a little old. I shouldn't say that. It was more about making sure that they didn't have to go through that financial struggle. I'm not a person that sort of gifts a lot of things to my kids. I make them work for it. But setting them up to a point where they don't have to go through the struggles that I went through. And now that they're starting to have kids, that sort of extension is getting a little longer. I thought I was doing it for two daughters. Now I've got two, three grandkids I've got to do it for as well. So. And just leaving that legacy, you know, I think just having them not go through that pain of growth and learning is going to be a pretty cool thing. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But there's also that balance. Like, we want to make sure that they, they have that same grit that we have. So how are you instilling that same grit mentality that you have in your kids? Because, you know, I'm sure your kids are real successful and how did you, you know, instill that work ethic in them?

[B]

I was lucky. My kids were a lot like me. So I think they, they're, they're both very, you know, get into anything. They'll, they'll, you know, they don't have a lot of fear. My oldest is especially like me, where she'll just go with anything. But I mean, her goal was to, you know, she always wanted to be a mum and she's met the most incredible husband. You know, he's got his own business. So I'm actually having a lot more impact on her husband than I am on my daughter. I mean, she's doing an incredible job as a mum, but she's married an incredible young man. He's grown a great business. So for me, that's kind of where I've shifted that focus is helping him grow something that he's going to be super proud of. My youngest is the artistic one. She's still being 21 and living her life, so we all know what that's going to be like. She'll find her way eventually. But, you know, like, I think they, you know, they're all going to find their path and I Think as long as they're happy. And I'm not one of those people that's going to say, you need to be successful. You need to go get a degree. You need to go do that. You need to do something that makes you passionate and keeps you happy. And as long as they do that, they're always going to be really, really successful. And I think that's. And I'm seeing that with them now. They're both finding their feet. They've got their sort of, you know, natural paths to where they're going, and it's pretty cool to watch. Makes you very proud. Yeah.

[A]

That's awesome. Yeah. Raising good kids, that's all we, as fathers can want. You know, they're right.

[B]

It's like, it's. It's those moments where you sit back and go, like, I've done some pretty good things here with my kids. I mean, you go through those things. I mean, when they were teenagers, I would have sold them if somebody would have bought them. They were a nightmare. But as they got older, got. Yeah. And you just. You just love them to death. And you. It's like anything but. I also learned that if I try to prevent them from making mistakes, they'd never learn the lesson. And I'm a big believer in sight. Give it a shot, and we'll help you solve the issue if it comes about. You know, you got to give them some guidance. And they've been pretty good at picking themselves back up when things don't go right. You know, buying homes and things like that, you'll bail. But they need to go through that experience to actually learn. So it wasn't about making them pay. It was more about making them learn the exercise. And, you know, they've been lucky enough to buy two or three homes now, and they're building quite a nice little platform for themselves.

[A]

So it's been really good for them. Good for them. And that's what, you know, I love getting parenting advice from dads that walk the walk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So one last question, and we adjourn here. And I asked this to everybody. When you're in front of the pearly gate, when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?

[B]

He's gonna give me a high five.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

You walk in. Yeah.

[A]

That's what I wanted to hear. That's what I wanted to hear.

[B]

Give me a good job, brother. Get in here.

[A]

That's. That's exactly. Aaron, you've been a blessing to have on the show. It's been so much fun to have you. I hope everybody learned so much. Aaron Hodson, one of the most brilliant minds in the real estate space, direct to you, giving you some incredible nuggets. Thank you guys for watching us live. You'll see this very soon. God bless, Aaron.

[B]

Pleasure being here. Thank you.