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Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Have Your Best Brain ft. Thoryn Stephens | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby
00:49:08
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- [00:00]
Host
This isn't your typical entrepreneurial chat. Today we're going full science nerd. Our guest, Thorin Stephens, is a legit scientist who's worked with everyone from biotech startups to Caltech neuroscientists. He's obsessed with optimizing human biology, and let's just say his idea of a good morning routine includes sunlight, bioresonant treatments, and measuring brain waves. Thorin is the founder of BrainOne, a groundbreaking platform using AI and neuroscience to help anyone from elite athletes to your grandma enhance brain function and live healthier, longer, better. But fair warning, today's episode gets a little nerdy, a little wild, and might even make you rethink your morning. Scroll through TikTok. If you're ready to optimize your mind, body, and maybe even your life, grab a notebook, settle in, and join us. This is not your usual coffees, but trust me, you won't want to miss it.
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Interviewer
Before I talk about Brain One, and we talked about your protocol a little bit before, but I like to start every. Every podcast out the same question and.
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Thorin Stephens
Sure.
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Interviewer
What's your morning routine?
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Thorin Stephens
Yeah, morning routine is. Is pretty well structured. It depends if I'm home in Colorado or I'm traveling. But my morning routine begins with some level of gratitude or prayer. And then meditation for about 20 minutes and direct sunlight for about 20, 25 minutes, depending on, you know, where the mountains are and the time of the day, as well as hydration. You know, usually a couple liters of water, and then I get into some level of intermittent fasting, and then when I, you know, break that fast, usually it's something fairly high in protein, but that's generally, you know, the, the structure of the morning. If I'm home, I do some bioresonant treatment. I've been working with a device called a biocharger. So I'll do roughly about 30 minutes of some resonant treatment and then jump on my engineering calls with my teams in India and la. And then if I am in Colorado, you know, try to go ski for a couple hours every single day.
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Interviewer
That's the dream. That's the dream.
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Thorin Stephens
It's a lot of fun.
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Interviewer
Yeah, we'll talk about the bioresonant treatment because I'm assuming you're doing the bioresident treatment concurrently while you're doing other things.
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Thorin Stephens
So, yeah, I mean, pretty regimented relative to my supplements as well as, you know, BPC, 157, some peptides. It also depends on if I'm training for a triathlon or you know, what's going on. But that's the general framework.
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Interviewer
Let's talk about brain 1. Give the audience like an overarching explanation as to what is Brain One and how it's going to change the whole bio optimization protocols for everybody.
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Thorin Stephens
Awesome, thank you. Yeah, the, just to oversimplify Brain One, the, the concept is it, it really addresses the question, if you follow a health influencer or an athlete and you've ever asked the question like, what is their health protocol, what is their routine that they do every day? That's what Brain One does. Fundamentally, you know, literally answers that question. You know, what does, you know, what does this athlete do on their daily basis? And it does so by putting it into a structured framework and that is broken down by microhabits. So the things that you do, as well as nutrition, as well as some level of, you know, supplementation and then measurement. And so you have a protocol, you have your microhabits and then you have a feedback loop fundamentally. And the feedback loop, it's a, you know, it varies from, you know, wearables to self report, all the way to advanced blood markers. And you know, we're really doing the full spectrum essentially that can integrate into Brain One as a system.
- [03:41]
Interviewer
The feedback loops tied into all the different biomarkers, testing platforms.
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Thorin Stephens
We can partnered with them. Yeah. So we started off. So again, when you think about brain, just measurement, right. Like over here you have self report as an example, like center for Brain Health out of, out of Texas, they've been doing this research for 20 or 30 years. The majority of the research was based initially on self report and then you get into biometrics. So again, you know, the, the plethora of wearables we have over, I think our API integrates into like, you know, three to 400 different wearables. And then you get into biomarkers and then you can get into imaging and then you get into eeg. And then way over here you have what's called BCI or brain computer interfaces. And our, one of our lead scientists, his name is Dr. Galen Buckwalter. He's currently the most connected human on the planet with six neural implants on his brain right now as part of a clinical trial at Caltech. And this is the blackrock Neuro, it's called the Utah Array. It's a chip eight by eight that literally is measuring his neural activity. One in the prefecture, prefrontal cortex, five on the neocortex. And it literally allows him to measure and then actually excite different areas of the Brain. And so, you know, it's, it's a spectrum of measurement and we're, you know, trying to support all aspects of, of that measurement, but it really does depend on the human. You know, some humans can't afford, you know, a wearable. So we're, we're really trying to meet them where they're at. And again, that's where self report comes into play.
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Interviewer
Well, I mean, if you're optimizing your biology, you can't afford a wearable. You're not optimizing your biology because optimizing biology is pretty damn expensive.
- [05:14]
Thorin Stephens
It can be for sure, but we're trying to make it for, like, anyone, you know, Brain One. We want to reach a billion humans through brain and biological optimization. You know, that's the mission that we're going after. And so part of that is meeting humans where they're at. And, you know, again, many humans, you know, all over the world, they don't. That's awesome.
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Interviewer
You're solving for a big problem because we discussed this earlier. It's like when they're sick, they're going there for ailments that were caused because they didn't optimize their biology.
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Thorin Stephens
Correct.
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Interviewer
So we really will see significant health care improvements because you're optimizing for biological markers.
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Thorin Stephens
Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. We've really focused on the concept of brain fitness. So how do you optimize your biology today? You know, and so the, as opposed to like neurodegeneration or brain health, which is when you're talking about again, Alzheimer's, dementia and so forth. And so we started off there, you know, again in this concept of brain fitness. But then as it's progressed, you know, we've seen these awesome opportunities to help support people again within neurodegeneration. Like as an example, there was a paper that came out in initially 2017, but it's called the Lancet 2020. It's usually recognized as. And it's based on the hypothesis that dementia is preventable. Have you heard of this?
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Interviewer
I've heard that dementia is preventable.
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Thorin Stephens
Correct. Right.
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Interviewer
In many ways, especially now in the biohacking world.
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Thorin Stephens
That's a big sell point. It is. And so this paper, again, if you Google Lancet 2020, it'll come up. It's also available Brain1 website. But it basically identifies a series of what are considered behavioral risk factors that you can change, you know, theoretically. I mean, in some cases you can't, because it could be, you know, pollution or if you're in a city and so forth. But again, very specific risk factors that you can, you know, try to work towards, you know, changing ultimately to prevent dementia. And we basically took that paper, we ran it through our AI, we generated editorial, and then a protocol that anyone can download for free and use.
- [07:10]
Interviewer
Sweet. That is awesome. And I'm really excited, once this thing goes live for, you know, immediate adoption for general society.
- [07:17]
Thorin Stephens
Thank you. Yeah.
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Interviewer
Meaning this.
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Thorin Stephens
We're very excited.
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Interviewer
Let's talk about the origin story.
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Thorin Stephens
Sure.
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Interviewer
Because it's a fascinating story why you created Brain1. Being a competitive athlete. Why don't you tell the audience, you know, the whole origin story of how this came about and now how you're taking it to market?
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Thorin Stephens
Yeah, absolutely. So my background's in molecular biology. I worked in drug development as a bench scientist and researcher for the first half of my career was, you know, working towards a PhD as an undergrad, taking graduate classes, and I really wanted to jump into drug development. And so immediately out of school, I went to a startup purchased by Amgen, and then I was, you know, working in the South San Francisco area in biotech as a bench scientist. And it was an awesome time. You know, we were the generation when the human genome was just getting sequenced. And it was this interesting point, too, because then the human genome got sequenced and it was like, oh, well, it's not just about genomics. It's now about proteomics. And then what's called the epigenome, which is in between, which is ultimately your DNA that codes for RNA and then translates into actual proteins. And so I was part of that initial genomics generation with the sequencing of the genome and ultimately seeing that progress into how you could apply these principles into other areas of drug development, fundamentally. And in my 20s, I began to start running. And then as I progressed with running, I went to triathlons, and then I went to full Ironmans. And when I was doing full Ironmans, it was the concept of following a health protocol and using data. You know, at the time we're using these big, chunky garments and, you know, it was pretty limited on the data you could get out of it. It was heart rate and so forth. But it was that idea of using data to drive and optimize your biology, and that was kind of the epiphany. And what I found was when I began training with wearables and with data, you know, I could attenuate my lactic threshold and I could go stronger, faster, longer, you know, by really understanding what those thresholds were based in my training. And so that really just escalated things and I began to do full Ironmans. And then, you know, that was kind of the, you know, at least the background of following that type of structured framework. Because in triathlon you're continually optimizing your biology. And specifically you have heart rate, you have your nutrition, you know, you have protein, you have electrolytes, you have hydration. And if any one of those variables is off, then you can like completely bonk and not finish the race. So you're constantly optimizing your biology as you go on the fly. And that's really why the training so important for race day. You've, you know, ideally, you've been training for months, you've nailed it, and you get out there and you have a good race. Um, and it was through that experience too that I really began to get, you know, put in front of or have access, you know, really began to see other types of tools. Right. So as an example, we were doing some training on the Central coast with one of my good buddies, Dean. And this is roughly 2015. And we look over, we'd have this crazy, you know, training day in Paso Robles, Lake Nacimiento, training for Wildflower. And we look over, we see Dean and he's got this red light on his knee, you know, and this is like 15ish, you know, about 10 years ago. And you know, we're like, dean, what are you doing over there? And he's like, oh, you guys just got to try it. It, you know, excites your mitochondrial DNA. And now red light is, you know, on the homepage of Tony Robbins, right?
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Interviewer
Yeah. Now red light's like everywhere.
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Thorin Stephens
Literally everywhere, everywhere. So, you know, we were kind of part of that, you know, with, with triathletes in particular, you know, always on the kind of the cutting edge of, of these types of biological optimization. And the other one I'll mention too is racehorses. You know, a lot of these techniques that have been used for racehorses, like lasers, you know, for decades, you know, are very much ahead of the times now. They're being ultimately utilized with humans as well. And so it was that experience of, of starting to train for triathlon and then full circle, you know, I became a data scientist. I was working in massive amounts of data. I moved from San Francisco to la and then I went from there into some private equity work. And about two years ago, I really realized I needed to recenter on my purpose and that was science. And so I was very clear I wanted to come back into something biology based. And I wasn't sure exactly what it was. And I was doing some pro bono work with a group out of Columbia University called the Neurorites foundation, which was really interesting. They were trying to provide a structured framework around legislation for protection of neurological data. As I was going down that road, it was very apparent that we needed more resources for Brain. At the time, I hadn't launched Brain1. I had the concept, and we were going down this road of using AI and I pulled together a triathlon team to race the Malibu Triathlon. This would have been in 23. And I had about a dozen athletes. I didn't even launch Brain One. And we had a Brain One triathlon team. And you know, we had this.
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Interviewer
This is before Brain One was really, really. I mean, it was just the beginning.
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Thorin Stephens
It was the beginning. Literally, you know, we hadn't even launched our alpha at that stage. And I had about a dozen athletes. And it was through that experience I was like, okay, the health protocol, we need to prioritize, you know, productize the health protocol and give these away. So at least people have a structured framework to follow for different levels of health. You know, again, starting with brain fitness.
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Interviewer
People don't think about brain fitness. People don't think about. People are starting to think about biological opt optimization.
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Thorin Stephens
Sure.
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Interviewer
So what are some simple brain hacks that people can implement right now into their life, into their current health protocols to really help them optimize their brain function?
- [12:37]
Thorin Stephens
Sure. So one. So I'll give you like a couple off the top of the head. Right. 1. I was meeting with the center for Brain Health and this amazing scientist, Dr. Sandra, and she's the founder. And, you know, and I was like, I come in with all this data and all the biometrics and biomarkers and she's like, Thorne, you know, that's really interesting. That's where we started, but, you know, where we ended. Connection and the importance of connection. And if a human has purpose in connection, it can increase their life expectancy by, you know, what is it, like 10 to 15 years? By having connection. So that is one example of a very easy thing you can do is connecting with humans. Whatever it is, it can be a book club, it could be, you know, playing cards. But having that connection and people that ultimately lose that have this isolation, it's absolutely detrimental to brain health. And let me give you one more. Another would be the concept of multitasking. You know, we live in this hustle driven society and we're seeing backlash against that right now. And it's really, really interesting Right. Multitasking, multitasking.
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Interviewer
All super high performers have to, I mean, I have no choice but to multitask. They say Elon Musk is doing four or five things all day long.
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Thorin Stephens
Correct. But from a brain biology perspective, you were actually more efficient. So let's say you have six things to do and you have one hour. You could do all six things at once or you could focus on each for 10 minutes. You will be more efficient and effective by doing the latter and basically single tasking on that one thing for a period of time than trying to do those six things at once for one hour. And there's pretty conclusive data around this. We're just not wired for it. You know, when we were hunters and gatherers, we were very focused on the one thing fighting protein, food, sustenance, survival. And so, you know that that translates and it's just, you know, in this, you know, hustle culture that we've.
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Interviewer
So you suggest people just try to do one thing, don't multitask.
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Thorin Stephens
Correct. Like, so if you're working on a paper, you're working on a single item, you know, turn off your phone, focus on that for 20 minutes, half an hour as opposed to trying to, you know, be on the phone, watch tv, focus on the task, single tasking. So yeah, and again it's, that's ultimately based on our biology as well.
- [14:47]
Interviewer
What about some affordable supplements or things that they could do to also improve cognition?
- [14:52]
Thorin Stephens
So nootropics, you know, we're very, I think, popular for quite a while. I mean there's a number of nootropics, there's a number of peptides out there. I generally lean towards plant based molecules and you know, supplements and so forth. So, you know, ashwagandha could be one as an example. Yeah, you know, that's pretty prevalent in that space.
- [15:13]
Interviewer
So Ashwagandha is good for brain health?
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Thorin Stephens
Oh yeah. I mean it's, you know, I mean, been used by, you know, the Indian culture for thousands of years. So that could be, could be one.
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Interviewer
You've worked with big brands, you know, Fox, Unilever. Those experiences really helped you shape your vision for brain one.
- [15:29]
Thorin Stephens
Sure. So as a young scientist, you know, we would optimize molecules. When I was doing drug development in biotech, I was part of the lead optimization team. And so we would go after a therapeutic target and then we would literally create mutants and then optimize it. To try to find a novel or prove a mechanism of action would be the concept. And so what I found is that, you know, Using data, we could begin to optimize molecules. And then when I moved from San Francisco to la, I started off. I mean, I, you know, there was no science happening in LA at the time. And so I started off as a digital analyst and the idea of using data to drive insights. So I would build digital systems focused in measurement, and it always came back to measurement. And then the concept of again using data to drive insights. So you have the measurement and then you're driving hypotheses and then rapid iteration in testing. And so as I'm working in the digital domain, what I found is that we could optimize any human behavior online. We could, you know, optimize towards humans watching more videos or buying more things or downloading X. And honestly, I like, you know, and this is the, like, you know, early. This is 12, 13, the beginning, you know, of when Facebook was really taking off. That's when Facebook had an open API and you can download all of the data out of the API. And I began also to see where the data was being used nefariously, you know, and ultimately driving, you know, toxic behaviors. And, you know, we see a lot of that now. But it was through that experience again of using data to drive a behavior. And, you know, I kind of just reached a point. I was like, why are we doing this? To have people buy more things they don't need? Why don't we use it for, you know, ultimately optimization of health? And that was really the segue into Brain one about two years ago when I really realigned in my sense of purpose around science and using data to drive health. And that was really the impetus for what ultimately has become Brain One.
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Interviewer
They use that data just to just sell us stuff and really just hypnotize us into insane consumer behavior.
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Thorin Stephens
Correct. Yeah. A really nefarious example is the trend called bed rotting. Have you seen? Have you heard of this?
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Interviewer
No.
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Thorin Stephens
So this is really prevalent in the younger generation, you know, teenagers, early 20s, and they will literally sit in bed and, you know, just scroll, doom, scroll. Just like literally every day there's a term for that, bedrotting. And, you know, having, you know, they're watching this, you know, facade of humans living their best life, and they're just sitting in bed, you know, depressed and, you know, anxious and all the things that are being facilitated by some of these social channels. And so we've developed a brain, a Brain one bedrotting protocol that we're giving away, you know, so people can have these basic principles to try to get them out of Bed and, you know, face the world.
- [18:14]
Interviewer
It's funny that you mentioned brain rotting, because I felt like I experienced that this morning. I usually wake up very, very early, but yesterday I, you know, I had to celebrate a birthday party. And I was out late till like, midnight. And then I got up same 5:36 in the morning, couldn't make my 6am gym session. So I just sat in bed like, dooms. I'm like, yeah. Trying to go to bed. I'm like this. I felt like my brain was rotting.
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Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
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Interviewer
20 minutes. I'm like, just blew 20 minutes.
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Thorin Stephens
Rotting my brain 100%.
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Interviewer
You know, it is a real thing.
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Thorin Stephens
It's a real thing.
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Interviewer
It could hit anybody, anyone. Because sleep's so important. Because if you get. My sleep was at 90, yeah. I would have just jumped out of bed, rolled right to the gym, started my stretches, started my morning protocol, but I just sat there. I'm like, I'm so tired still.
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Thorin Stephens
Right? Yeah.
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Interviewer
Survived on five and a half hours of sleep, you know, like.
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Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
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Interviewer
So there's a correlation between biological optimization. Because you won't sit in bed and rot your brain if you slept well.
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Thorin Stephens
Correct.
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Interviewer
You won't sit in bed and write your brain. If you had a good workout, you have a workout routine, or, you know, you got to train the next morning, you will sit in bed. If you had a rough night, you didn't get good, good sleep.
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Thorin Stephens
Sure.
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Interviewer
Or you drank or whatever, or you're.
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Thorin Stephens
Just conditioned, you know, like. Because that's what you do, you know, you're. You just sit in bed and, you know, you scroll and these, you know, again, these algorithms have all been, you know, they're optimizing for your scroll time. And so I think we need to invent better metrics, you know, for humans. Right? Like, who among our friends has the least amount of screen time? You know, let's celebrate that. You know, let's celebrate the amount of time we're outdoors, being active, you know, as opposed to, you know, some of these more nefarious activities. So that's really what we're trying to promote at brain1.
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Interviewer
It's ironic because you have to be in front of your screen to use Brain1. Maybe you'll create some sort of.
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Thorin Stephens
Oh, we already have. So that's a great point. So actually, yeah, thank you for calling that out. So again, initially, we went down the road of, you know, digital optimization, building this app that anyone can use. You can now download your protocols and have them printed. Because what we were finding is for the older demographic, they don't, you know, I'm, we're, you know, again, the app is as easy as possible. I want my grandma to be able to use it, but instead you could actually print the protocol and you use it analog. And you know, myself as a scientist, I have like, you know, 70 plus notebooks, you know, those like, you know, essentially like research notebooks. And that's what I use as well. But we're trying to meet people where they're at. And so we're going down that road. You can download the protocol, you can print it, and you could just do it manually and then you can upload it into the Brain1 system. So this is what we've been working towards. And then the idea where we're getting closer, you could just have a book printed, you get in the mail and then that's your protocol analog. You check it off. So it's not digital. And again, it's meeting people where they are. And exactly to your point, you know, so they're not always on their phones.
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Interviewer
It is a true epidemic. Even Mark Zuckerberg himself is trying to solve for this. He knows how destructive this behavior is to society.
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Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
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Interviewer
That leads me to my next question. Like, where is the future of neurotechnology?
- [21:09]
Thorin Stephens
So again, when we talk about the measurement of brain, you know, self report over here, you know, you've got Brian Johnson over here, right, who's like measuring, you know, every possible biological activity marker you can imagine. But even more advanced than Brian is the concept of bci. Right. And the, you know, again, as I mentioned, you know, the, the idea that you have brain computer interfaces and so, you know, these are chips. You've heard of neuralink. Of course, there's other companies that have been doing this for decades. Blackrock Neuro is an example in their Utah array was very pioneering. And so at Brain One we have a scientist named Dr. Galen Buckwalter. He was the former chief scientist of eharmony. So eharmony was building production level machine learning AI like 20 years ago when I first met Galen first moved to L. A And Galen is a quadriplegic and so he's in a wheelchair. And he qualified for a clinical trial at Caltech. He currently has six of these neural arrays again on his brain. And it's incredible ultimately. And what he's able to do is measure his neural activity, but then also control a robotic arm as an example. And so they're mapping and they're measuring the electrical activity throughout the brain to do an action. And that action could be controlling an avatar controlling a robotic arm for humans like Galen, ultimately. And so BCIs are absolutely the future. And there's invasive and non invasive. In Galen's case, they removed a chunk of his skull and they have again, five in the neo and one in the prefrontal frontal cortex. And, and with that, you know, again, using AI and essentially mapping it so he can again control a robotic arm would be, you know, the, the thinking behind it. And it's absolutely phenomenal. And then, quick funny side note, you know, Galen as an incredible human, he's the most connected human on the planet right now. And so again, you know, I've been with him at clinical trials at Caltech.
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Interviewer
Define connected so the audience doesn't misinterpret that.
- [23:11]
Thorin Stephens
Absolutely. So he has six of these neural arrays on his actual brain tissue, measuring and then potentially exciting, you know, different areas of the brain. And so he has three peds on his skull which essentially are holes. And you know, you essentially, you screw on an interface that, you know, connects to the Internet. Wow. Quite literally. And, and so Galen, you know, amazing, amazing human at Brain One, he's our chief brain futurist is his title. And he, you know, his expression, being in a wheelchair has been through science and punk rock and, and now bci. And so quick, you know, funny side note, so I also compose music and we actually wrote a punk song together. We're going to be releasing in the next month or so where Galen is singing to the track, literally, and then essentially controlling a synthesizer with his brain at the same time.
- [24:07]
Interviewer
Whoa.
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Thorin Stephens
Yeah. This is right now. This isn't, you know, in the future.
- [24:11]
Interviewer
Da, da, da.
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Thorin Stephens
Like, we are the generation that is seeing the intersection of biology with machines right now, today. And Galen is a absolute pioneer in this space.
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Interviewer
That is incredible. I'm so excited to see, like, how this all plays out. Actually, yesterday learned about the first robot that's actually conducted as a human being. Like, not like the AI. Robots, like full on human has human movements.
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Thorin Stephens
Sure.
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Interviewer
Have you seen that?
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Thorin Stephens
I haven't seen that one now.
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Interviewer
Full robotic arm, but like human movements.
- [24:39]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
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Interviewer
They could do everything a human can.
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Thorin Stephens
It's happening right now. We are that generation and you're help.
- [24:44]
Interviewer
You'Re helping cultivate the brain part of the AI.
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Thorin Stephens
So you're in that case, robots that.
- [24:50]
Interviewer
Have like true human cognition.
- [24:52]
Thorin Stephens
I mean, for sure. I mean, that's also the fear, you know. It's also the fear. Yeah.
- [24:56]
Interviewer
What do you think? Like, how is that going to impact mankind?
- [25:00]
Thorin Stephens
So again, I'm an optimist. I think there are reasons to be, you know, very mindful. You know, in this stage, I think we have to ultimately work with the AI and the machines, you know. And so I look at these BCIs and again, there's invasive, where they're literally drilling a skull. You know, drilling a hole in your skull, like neuralink. But there's also now non invasive BCIs that are becoming more prevalent as well. I couldn't name a brand off the top of my head, but I mean, a lot of research actually, you know.
- [25:28]
Interviewer
Can I get a bci? I mean, what would the benefit of a BCI be?
- [25:32]
Thorin Stephens
So instead of having, you know, to drill like a, you know, a, essentially a hole in your skull, a non invasive aci, you know, essentially could read essentially your neural activity through your skull. The problem is it's like less resolution. You have impotence and, you know, so forth. But that's the concept that you could be thinking something and then it could translate into a text message or an email.
- [25:53]
Interviewer
I actually was with one of the founders of League of Legends last week.
- [25:59]
Thorin Stephens
Yep.
- [26:00]
Interviewer
And he told me that he put that on his head and it, it was tracking his thoughts and his emotions. It was a non invasive bci, but it was accurate. It was kind of like a light helmet.
- [26:11]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah. I mean, so there's EEGs. Brian Johnson's company colonel is an example of that.
- [26:16]
Interviewer
Brian Johnson's company leading the charge here. Yeah, but that's a, that's a helmet, right?
- [26:21]
Thorin Stephens
That's a helmet, correct. Yeah, I think it's like 19 nodes or so. And again, the resolution, you know, it's, it's not going to be as high resolution as a bci, which is literally measuring the actual, you know, like the, on the actual cells of the brain.
- [26:34]
Interviewer
What is the benefit of kernel or neural link to a normal person?
- [26:40]
Thorin Stephens
Well, so I think, I mean, neuralink is a more advanced use case. You know, the immediate benefit there is someone who maybe has, you know, there's also, I mean, why is Elon Musk.
- [26:49]
Interviewer
Putting billions into neurons?
- [26:50]
Thorin Stephens
Because it's the future. Right. I mean, again, you also have, you know, you have BCI's, brain computer interfaces. What's also next is spinal computer interfaces as well. And so that's where that's, I mean, to be clear, that's what neuralink's focusing on. It's focusing on humans who, you know, ultimately are not able to, you know, they've had an accident of some kind. They're not able to use their spine, their brain. Exactly. Or, you know, there was a great study probably about nine months ago now with a woman who was able to use her brain to essentially speak to her partner through an avatar, you know, speak to the world through an avatar just using her brain, who had a, you know, again, an accident. So that's very, very much the future. I think that most humans should be doing a, you know, regular brain scan, you know, once a year, go in and measure your neural activity through an eeg, qeeg and then you can optimize it though, you know, you could use treatments, modalities like neurofeedback as an example and you can actually see the improvement in your brain or imaging, you know, as another example. So by understanding the baseline of where you're at today, you can improve. And that's been the basis of my career around measurement, you know, data driving insights. You have a baseline and then how do you improve it? You know, in this case, applying these principles to, you know, general biology of the human.
- [28:04]
Interviewer
Wow, you came up with brain one. Now what do you think was like that aha moment? You're like, damn. People need a generic protocol where they're able to implement and adopt this, something a little bit more basic for the general masses. Because nobody thinks about a bio optimized protocol for the public. Yeah, it's really like, and so needed, you know, like the public needs to understand like what is a good protocol and what they can what and meet them where they're at. Because everybody just thinks, yeah, it's for triathletes. Sure, it's for Brian, crazy people for, yeah, whatever. It's like, why did you think about something for the general public? Like what was that aha moment again?
- [28:45]
Thorin Stephens
It was, it was when I was training for, for this triathlon and I was like, you know, I, I was following this structured framework and that concept of just, you know, ultimately developing these, these different types of protocols. And so initially we were going after science based protocols and it's very linear. You know, again, the Lancet 2020 study where dementia is preventable if you follow these modifiable risk factors. Today, our parents, our grandparents, they're all terrified of Alzheimer's and dementia. You know, there are protocols they could be following. You don't want to start when you're in your 50s or 60s. You want to be starting when you're in your 30s and 40s and, or.
- [29:20]
Interviewer
Even younger or younger.
- [29:22]
Thorin Stephens
These are basic life principles, you know, and so as you look at longevity as an example, you know, they're all following these same general principles. But what Brain one does is it puts it into a structured framework. You can again, print, you can use digitally, you can follow.
- [29:36]
Interviewer
Like, I'd like to have my kids on these protocols because you're meeting them where they're at. Like, that's it, kids.
- [29:41]
Thorin Stephens
Yes.
- [29:41]
Interviewer
Here, here's how you're going to prevent dementia.
- [29:43]
Thorin Stephens
Correct.
- [29:44]
Interviewer
You're going to be in, yeah, absolute best physical health. Because that's like if the kids could adopt this at 100%.
- [29:51]
Thorin Stephens
Yes. So we started off with these again, science driven, you know, protocols, taking peer reviewed scientific papers and then developing editorial and then developing, you know, again, an actual protocol someone can follow. And that's all using our AI. And then as I started to talk to more health influencers and athletes, I asked them the question. I was like, hey, do you get asked what your health protocol and routine is? And every single one of them was like, absolutely. And that's when I knew we had something. I was like, oh my gosh, like, literally. So now we're working with some really big names and developing, you know, working with them to develop their health protocols that they can either give away or monetize. You know, like, would you spend a dollar to, you know, see Tom Brady's protocol? Well, you probably would, you know, or if it's someone that you follow. And so we went down that road then with the health influencers and then further we started doing research with traditional health protocols. Like what did the Spartans do? What did they do in China, what did they do in Japan over these last thousands of years and began developing traditional health cultural protocols as well. And we developed the world's largest database of health protocols and then microhabits. And that's the other side of this. When you think about a health protocol, what is it? It's just a series of things that you do when you get up, up. Cold plunging as an example would be, you know, a micro habit. And so as you're looking, sounds sophisticated.
- [31:10]
Interviewer
Protocol is just intimidating.
- [31:11]
Thorin Stephens
It's just a routine. It's just a reason.
- [31:13]
Interviewer
What's your morning routine?
- [31:14]
Thorin Stephens
You know, that's it. That's it. It's just a regimen routine. It's just what you do that, you know, it's a fair point. And I've, I've talked about this with my team, you know, do we not use the word protocol?
- [31:21]
Interviewer
It sounds intimidating. I think routines is more for the masses.
- [31:25]
Thorin Stephens
Routines.
- [31:26]
Interviewer
That's how I. Because people, I don't start my show with, what's your health protocol in the morning.
- [31:30]
Thorin Stephens
Right. What do you ask you ask, what is your routine?
- [31:32]
Interviewer
What's your morning routine?
- [31:33]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah, that's great. And again, it's meeting people, what they are. I mean, as a scientist, you know, I'm. I was going down this road. Actually, you know what it was, though? I, you know, we developed. We have hundreds of these protocols. And I was talking to one of my advisory members. His name's Russ Nash. And he's like, I don't know if we should use the term Protocol Thorin. And I was like, well, you know, as a scientist, it just.
- [31:52]
Interviewer
I, you know, Ryan Johnson uses that term.
- [31:54]
Thorin Stephens
Of course.
- [31:54]
Interviewer
It's intimidating.
- [31:55]
Thorin Stephens
It is.
- [31:55]
Interviewer
That's why I never jumped on the bandwagon. Immediately. I'm like, I'm not going to do a.
- [31:59]
Thorin Stephens
But then. But, you know, so I was having this conversation with Russ and. And literally the next day, Huberman announced his new book. Do you know what it was called?
- [32:08]
Interviewer
What is it called?
- [32:09]
Thorin Stephens
Protocols. And literally, it's coming out in the next couple months. I mean, this was, you know, about six months ago, but he literally announced, you know, his new book called Protocols. And so, you know, he's. He's obviously a very tried and true scientist. And. But it's. It doesn't, you know, it's a. It's a routine. It's a regimen. Doesn't matter what you call it, as long as you do it, you know, and to your point, too, I mean, kids should be learning these things. It's like. And it's not complicated. It's. What are the six things you need to do? And you look at all these longevity experts and so forth, it's pretty simple, you know, it's high protein. It's going to be sunlight in the morning. You know, it's going to be a level of hydration. It's going to be connection, you know, and you just oversimplify. There's like, five things, you know, you could do every day to live a better, more robust life.
- [32:49]
Interviewer
Yeah. From the Don't Die summit, I gathered that basically the number one thing that's most important for a health protocol is sleep.
- [32:57]
Thorin Stephens
Absolutely.
- [32:58]
Interviewer
Yes, of course.
- [33:00]
Thorin Stephens
Yes. We. We've actually been developing a protocol called sleep maximization, you know, and it's following all of these, you know, microhabits you could be doing.
- [33:08]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [33:08]
Thorin Stephens
It could include, you know, some level of supplementation, like magnesium. You know, I don't. Generally don't go towards melatonin, but magnesium, and then all the things you can do in your preparation for sleep. And so with my friends, you know, what we Share is like, you know, what was your, you know, what was your sleep score the night before? You know, like I got a 91 the other day. I like, you know, I shared it with my friends. I'm like, yes. You know, yeah, it's tough.
- [33:30]
Interviewer
72 last night.
- [33:31]
Thorin Stephens
I know it's, well, but it's, but it's okay. You can't beat yourself up on.
- [33:34]
Interviewer
And I was doom scrolling after.
- [33:37]
Thorin Stephens
There you go. It's like, there's probably connection.
- [33:39]
Interviewer
There's definitely a connection.
- [33:40]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah. But those are the metrics we should be optimizing. Sleep score. You know, ultimately, you know, when you oversimplify, like, you know, whatever you call it the microhabit, it, it comes down to these, you know, again, like five or six basic principles.
- [33:53]
Interviewer
Yeah. And then also, resting heart rate while you sleep is super important. And I learned that, you know, to drop your resting heart rate depends on one. When was your last meal?
- [34:04]
Thorin Stephens
Sure.
- [34:04]
Interviewer
So like, if you fast eight hours before your last meal, your resting heart rate will plummet.
- [34:08]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah, absolutely. And HRV as well, of course, is a measurement of your parasympathetic to that point.
- [34:14]
Interviewer
Like, I, I had dinner last night. Sushi at like 10pm oh yeah, my wearable told me this morning. She's like, you, something's up with your, your heart rate was counting. It was 65.
- [34:24]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah, well, that's because as you're trying to sleep, your body's still digesting all that food. You know, so the basics of intermittent fasting, I mean, at least not eating two hours before you go to bed. You know, these are all the very, very basic principles that we're just not really taught. You know, we haven't, you know, like, as a child, I mean, you're not really taught about the brain or the nervous system at all, let alone, you know, this concept of your, your.
- [34:47]
Interviewer
We're definitely not taught because three of the people I was out with were doctors and some of them were specialized doctors, oncologists or whatever.
- [34:54]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [34:54]
Interviewer
And here we are. There's like, you know, eating right before bed. Like they're not optimizing for. They're learning with me about this stuff. I know it's, it's not taught in med schools. It's not taught in specialized schools. It's now part of the method, you know, longevity studies.
- [35:11]
Thorin Stephens
But it's longevity and functional medicine. Doctors are aligned, you know, where they're, they're looking at the holistic human and they're looking at it from a preventable perspective. You know, you're not Just, you know, treating the disease, you know, you're treating the human to ensure that they don't get the disease. So it's more of a movement and that's not even, you know, as widely accepted in traditional, you know, Western medicine.
- [35:32]
Interviewer
Western medicine is all driven by big pharma. And Robert F. Kennedy's announced that he's going to try to cut all big pharma commercials, like, because big pharma is just a big scam. It's just, they just try to just get you sick. So they sell you medicine. You know, it's just a big hustle. Yeah, we've all been like blinded by these multi billion dollar corporations that are just basically there to enable us to get sick.
- [36:00]
Thorin Stephens
Sure. I mean, they are incentivized for sickness. So I would absolutely agree with that. And you, you look in general at our fda, you know, I mean, it is, it's pretty upsetting that, you know, you have these like, stalwart, you know, US Brands like Kellogg's that has different ingredients in the US Than in Canada. You know, why is glyphosate in our food chain at all, like, you know, as an herbicide? I mean, it is absolutely criminal that, you know, these herbicides have been allowed into our food chain. Or like another example is like pfas, you know, what's going on with polyfluoroalkyls. Why are in like every single water supply in the US it's absolutely tragic and it does need to change. And so, you know, I'm optimistic. I mean, I think some of, you know what, RFK spouts can be a little wackadoodle. But in, you know, I also agree with some of the things that he says as well. And so I do think that there absolutely needs to be radical change at these, you know, the epa, the fda. And I am optimistic that, you know, under the new leadership, we will start to see those changes. Because it is absolutely criminal in terms of what is being, you know, our children are being exposed to, to that point.
- [37:12]
Interviewer
Like with AI, with neuroscience, with implementing this into a legitimate, profitable business. What does this all look like for, for the future?
- [37:23]
Thorin Stephens
For Brain one or just in general?
- [37:25]
Interviewer
For brain. For neuroscience in general.
- [37:27]
Thorin Stephens
I mean, again, I think it starts with awareness. You know, like people are becoming more aware of what a PFAS is, of what glyphosate is. And so I think it has to start there and then it, you know, ultimately can shift behavior, you know, fundamentally. I mean, these things should not be even in the food supply, but then people shouldn't be buying them. And they need to be more aware of, you know, what they're putting into their body and, you know, the overabundance of preservatives and so forth. So I see this general trend, you know, you hear a lot about health span and longevity as an example, you know, really optimizing for Those last. Last 10 years of your life to be some of your best years, you know, so you're not verklempt and, you know, in a nursing home, you know, faced with dementia. So I'm up. Exactly. And I'm optimistic, you know, for, you know, the steps ahead.
- [38:17]
Interviewer
But, like, I used Peter Attea's frame of reference. Absolutely not lifespan, of course.
- [38:22]
Thorin Stephens
Yes, absolutely.
- [38:23]
Interviewer
Because it's all about healthspan.
- [38:24]
Thorin Stephens
It is 100.
- [38:25]
Interviewer
What the heck's the point of lifespan if you have no health?
- [38:27]
Thorin Stephens
Correct. You know, if you're, like, living, you know, you know, in a nursing home, I mean, it's. It's pretty tragic what we've done to the older, you know, generations as well. And we have the opportunity to help change that right now, you know, and again, by following these pretty basic principles. Now, the hardest, you know, factor there is the human. You know, like, we can build the best technology on the planet, but, you know, the human still needs to do the thing. And so that's why I think, from the behavioral modification step, you know, our approach at brain one is. Is the idea of like, incremental, you know, microhabits. Incremental change over time.
- [38:59]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [38:59]
Thorin Stephens
But by starting earlier, you know, with children and getting them on, you know, These are the 10 basic principles, you know, then. Then at least they have a chance.
- [39:07]
Interviewer
I love the incremental concept because I started like, bio optimization with just like one thing.
- [39:13]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah, that's it.
- [39:13]
Interviewer
This feels good.
- [39:14]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [39:14]
Interviewer
I'm gonna add another.
- [39:15]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [39:16]
Interviewer
Oh, this even feels better.
- [39:17]
Thorin Stephens
Sure.
- [39:17]
Interviewer
Well, let's add this, this and this.
- [39:19]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [39:19]
Interviewer
And now I'm just like, this is kind of addicting. I'm like, I should buy that.
- [39:25]
Thorin Stephens
It's. I think it's good. I think the only time it can be start to be a negative is if you get too obsessed with the data. You know, if you wake up in the morning and your sleep score is a 71, you're like, oh, shit, I'm not gonna have a good day. As opposed to getting up and feeling how you feel and then seeing if you're gonna have a good day, you know. And so as a data scientist and someone who does, you know, these things on a daily Basis. It's good to have a balance in all these things. And I'll go through periods there's true.
- [39:49]
Interviewer
That is very true.
- [39:50]
Thorin Stephens
It's totally true.
- [39:50]
Interviewer
Because if I wake up and my sleep score is 60, I'm pissed, you know, I'm like, my day's ruined.
- [39:55]
Thorin Stephens
So try to get up and experience the day, do your routine and then look at your sleep score, you know, check in with yourself. And that's where data, you know, as a data scientist, I mean, you have to be careful. And I think generally it's very much a positive, you know, But I'll also go through periods where I turn off all my wearables. You know, I'll go through a period where, you know, I just, I, you know, don't need the data at that time period.
- [40:16]
Interviewer
So yeah, that's when I'm on vacation.
- [40:18]
Thorin Stephens
Vacation or even if I get sick, you know, I already know, you know, da, da, da. I mean, I just don't need to see the data. And so it's a balance, you know, and all of these things. And you know, you look at someone like Brian Johnson that's constantly, you know, he says he has the, you know, the best biomarkers on the planet, which may be true, but it's also important to live your best life, you know, to have the best quality of life you can have. Which means going out and grabbing sushi with friends, you know, and eating at 10 o'clock at night and not being too hard on yourself, you know, the next day, or doing the things, you know, whatever it might be. So I think it's a balance in all these things. And if you're too restrictive, you know, you may, you know, you might miss that thing, you might miss that event with your family or your friends, you know, that it's, it's good to have balance in, in all of this as well.
- [41:02]
Interviewer
Now I like to conclude the show a couple last questions. This is a three prong question. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself? Yep, a personal goal that you have for the business and you know, some of the personal goals, you're setting yourself up for your family.
- [41:15]
Thorin Stephens
100%. Okay, so personal goals for myself. So when I look at myself, I try to optimize against four quadrants. And so one is science, you know, and so a goal there is for Brain One to continue to publish research papers and you know, get our science out there, reach a billion humans. Another goal I have personally, you know, in, in my, my matrix essentially is, is art and music. I'M also a musician. So, like I mentioned, you know, I'm releasing this punk song with Dr. Galen, you know, which includes his neural activity in the song where he's singing. And we actually have his neural activity out of the clinical trial at Caltech.
- [41:51]
Interviewer
That's amazing.
- [41:52]
Thorin Stephens
Super fun, you know, And I'm gonna.
- [41:54]
Interviewer
Get that on Spotify.
- [41:55]
Thorin Stephens
Absolutely. It'll be on Spotify. Give me, like, a month. And so, and then physiology, you know, just in general, like, being in the best shape I can possibly be for myself, for my family, you know, that is very, very important to me. You know, I. I do mma. I do triathlons. I do all these things. And it's not to prove anything. I do it for myself, you know, but trying to, you know, do the best I can. I mean, like, last season, my triathlon season, I qualified for USA Triathlon, you know, nationals. I got second place in Hermosa beach. And it's all for fun, you know. Like, I didn't even go into it. Like, I want to get second place. I was, like, out there, you know, and I'm like, oh, wow. I'm like, da, da, da. And then last is spirit, you know, so I try to optimize against, you know, my spirit as well. And I spent a lot of time in the jungles. I spent a lot of time with, you know, different indigenous cultures in alignment of that spirit, ultimately. And so those are the four things that I, as a human and a man, am trying to optimize against. For brain one, you know, the. The vision and the mission first is to reach a billion humans and to, you know, basically make these protocols accessible to any human that wants to make a change in their life and, you know, to productize the human health protocol. So that's very exciting to me. So, you know, that's all happening. And then what was the third?
- [43:09]
Interviewer
That was just family.
- [43:10]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah, the family. Yeah. Again, you know, leading by example. You know, just trying to lead the best life I can, you know, be as healthy as possible, but also be as balanced as possible, you know, in all of these things. And, you know, your sister, your mom.
- [43:23]
Interviewer
They'Re all following the health protocols.
- [43:25]
Thorin Stephens
They're getting there. Yeah. Yeah, they. I mean, again, you know, it's.
- [43:28]
Interviewer
It's.
- [43:28]
Thorin Stephens
They all follow a routine.
- [43:29]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [43:30]
Thorin Stephens
But it's getting them on a more structured health protocol. And, like, as an example, yesterday I took my mother. We did a hydrogen cloud treatment in Westlake Village at the Four Seasons with an amazing practitioner named Sports iq. And our family dog just had surgery and she had a splenectomy and we literally brought the family dog into this hydrogen cloud. And then she did bioresonant treatment and she's doing great today. You know, does it work? Well, you know, the science and some of this stuff is a little bit, you know, mixed and a little bit woo woo. But, you know, that's also why we're trying to utilize Brain One to help drive, you know, the validity of these somewhat fringe, you know, types of treatments and so forth.
- [44:08]
Interviewer
But, you know, just like, even in my business, like, you have to be an early adopter.
- [44:13]
Thorin Stephens
Of course, if you're not an early.
- [44:15]
Interviewer
Adopter, you're just not going to be winning 100%. And the beautiful thing about this new longevity movement is that there's so much to adopt. There's so much to adopt. Like, right after this, like, we're gonna check out this data bed. Like, yeah, you haven't even adopted that. You might be like, Joe, that was great. You know, I bet this, that was like, yes. You know, but like, I'm just like, I like to adopt everything in business for my family, like, sport, whatever it is. Like, there's just something like, there's even somewhat of a hint of validity. I'm on it.
- [44:45]
Thorin Stephens
That's awesome.
- [44:46]
Interviewer
I'm on it. And then like, oh, that was totally B.S. like, well, you know.
- [44:49]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah. And some of it is, though, I mean, especially in, you know, the neurotech space, I mean, there are new devices being added and none of these are FDA approved. Very few of them have clinical trials, you know, so you also have to be careful at the end of the day. But, you know, that said, I mean, and some of these treatments, like the, you know, the, the Bioreson and stuff has been around since the 30s and 40s, but then all the technology went to Russia and Germany because it, you know, basically was not outlawed here. But all the research went overseas. You know, is that because of, you know, pharma and so forth? But all that to say, I think it's a very, you know, I'm an optimist and I think it's very exciting. And, you know, we have an incredible array of modalities that we can tap.
- [45:28]
Interviewer
Into from a personal perspective. Like, ever since I started this journey, I can, with 100% certainty, show you pictures of me like a year ago.
- [45:36]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [45:37]
Interviewer
And you'll be like, like, I look 10 years younger than I looked a year ago.
- [45:40]
Thorin Stephens
Right.
- [45:41]
Interviewer
The weight. Yeah, it's way less than 40, 30, 40 pounds less than weight. Skin, like hair. Every single Attribute of my body. I mean, I showed you my biomarkers. They're all dropping in age. I am reducing, I'm reversing my age. And I meet people like, Joe, you look like a, you know, like, fantastic. Like, what the heck? And I'll see them. They're like overweight or whatever. They're like. You could see them aging and it's like. Like, that's not what's happening to me.
- [46:06]
Thorin Stephens
Sure.
- [46:06]
Interviewer
You know, and it's like, I want to reverse backwards.
- [46:08]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [46:09]
Interviewer
In age, so does everybody. But it takes work, takes protocol, it takes adoption.
- [46:13]
Thorin Stephens
Yes. 100. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't necessarily want to live forever, but I want to live the best life I can every single day possible.
- [46:20]
Interviewer
Yeah. I mean, you're 46. You look amazing. Your skin looks great. You're, you know.
- [46:24]
Thorin Stephens
Thank you.
- [46:24]
Interviewer
Amazing shape.
- [46:25]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah. I mean, I'm the most ripped I've ever been, you know, like. And I think part of that is learning, you know, again, we didn't necessarily have these tools when we were in our 20s and 30s, you know, and so forth. And now they're absolutely everywhere.
- [46:35]
Interviewer
What's going to happen in a year? I feel like this is what's going to be the new trend. This is what's going to be cool.
- [46:41]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah.
- [46:41]
Interviewer
Like, this is what's. How you're going to meet, you know, your significant other. You're going to meet them at a biohacking lounge.
- [46:47]
Thorin Stephens
Oh, sure.
- [46:47]
Interviewer
You're not going to meet them at a nightclub.
- [46:48]
Thorin Stephens
Well, so what you can do with Brain One is you can share your health protocol. You meet someone on the street, you meet them, you know, da, da, da. And you're like, oh, yeah, check this out. And you literally just SMS them your protocol and they can see what you do. Yes. You know, literally. I mean, and it's, it's becoming, you know, it's. It's productizing your health routine so anyone can see. And then if there's alignment, you know, maybe that's someone good to hang out with.
- [47:10]
Interviewer
That's awesome. I love that. When I started my show, you're like, joe, your question of morning routine is. That's my business.
- [47:15]
Thorin Stephens
Yeah. Literally. That's the question we were answering at Brain One. Just oversimplified. What do you do when you wake up in the morning? You know, and what do you do.
- [47:22]
Interviewer
When you go to bed?
- [47:23]
Thorin Stephens
Exactly.
- [47:23]
Interviewer
Later in the day.
- [47:24]
Thorin Stephens
Exactly. All of those things, you know, what does Peter Attia do? You know, what does David Goggins do? You know, these, these amazing athletes human that are putting, you know, their mental, physical, you know, just capabilities to the next level and, and that's it fundamentally. And then you can learn from that and you can adopt it and then you can create your own health protocol and, you know, ultimately live your best life with the highest quality of life possible.
- [47:48]
Interviewer
Last question. I asked everybody this question. When you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?
- [47:56]
Thorin Stephens
I didn't, you know, that I didn't live with any regret. You know, I lived every single day to the fullest and, and I believe that wholeheartedly. You know, I wake up in the morning and I feel excited and you know, I want to go, just want to ski.
- [48:10]
Interviewer
I want to see the beautiful mountains.
- [48:12]
Thorin Stephens
Of Absolutely, yeah, Aspen and just live the best life that I can. And I can, you know, I feel that I've been able to do that, you know, and of course we all have had ups and downs and all the things, but, you know, I can say I've truly lived every day to its fullest.
- [48:26]
Interviewer
Thorin, you've been a pleasure to have on the show.
- [48:28]
Thorin Stephens
Pleasure.
- [48:28]
Interviewer
Thorne Stevens, guys, founder of Brain One. It's going to be released. You're going to be able to access it for free right now.
- [48:35]
Thorin Stephens
Yep. They can join our wait list if they go to Brain Dot One. And yeah, you know, we're, we're allowing people on the platform and just really excited, you know, chatting with you and, and seeing where, where this goes.
- [48:46]
Interviewer
That's awesome.
- [48:46]
Thorin Stephens
Thank you so much.
- [48:47]
Interviewer
It's been a pleasure to have you. God bless you, man.
- [48:49]
Thorin Stephens
Thank you.