← Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Mortgage Media ft. Founder Andrew Berman | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 53
00:56:00
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- [00:01]
A
What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Coffees Forecloses. Today we're going to dive deep into the heart of the mortgage industry. Our guest is a visionary leader whose recent strategic move has significantly reshaped the media landscape for the entire mortgage industry. He played a pivotal role in a major acquisition that combines a top mortgage magazine with a national news network, creating a powerhouse of industry news, webinars and live events. Together, they reach over 160,000 professionals every single week, setting an entirely new standard into how mortgage news is delivered. Please join me in welcoming the head of engagement at American Business Media and the founder of National Mortgage Professionals magazine. Welcome today, Mr. Andrew Berman.
- [01:02]
B
Joe, thank you for that introduction. I appreciate that very much.
- [01:06]
A
Very much, very much deserved, Andrew. And you know, I've been a fan of NMP magazine for shoot since I feel like over 10, 15 years since it started. What year did it start?
- [01:17]
B
So, 2009. 2000.
- [01:21]
A
Yeah, I've been, I've been tracking that magazine ever since it started.
- [01:24]
B
If you see the latest episode, the latest issue, I mean, the COVID can you beat that?
- [01:28]
A
No, the COVID was pretty good. I mean, we got to throw that on the. Yeah, throw that on the front. You know, when we, when we re air this, we'll throw that on the front. But yeah, it's a great magazine and very informative. It continues to be a staple in the mortgage industry. I feel like you have 100% market share of the mortgage industry because you are the primary publication of any true value in the industry. And what a, what an accomplishment to have the, that sort of market share.
- [01:55]
B
Well, at least for those that are winning in the mortgage business and those who are aspiring to win, they're reading our publication.
- [02:00]
A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And full of insight, guys. If you're not, if you're not listening to that, if you're not watching that magazine or watching. Because you also publish it, you know, online, you have the video format of it and then you have the written magazine, you have the digital print magazine. So, you know, people aren't, aren't in tune with what's going on with NMP magazine. They got to be reading that publication. Excellent publication, excellent editors. So good job on that. Good job on continuing to always be at the forefront of the vision of the industry. Because one thing I really admire about what you're doing is you're always collaborating with other leaders within the mortgage sector.
- [02:36]
B
Of course, of course. That's one of my favorite things about what I do. I mean, you know, so I came up with the title a few years ago as the head of engagement and outreach, because really what I love doing, I love talking to leaders. I love actually, you know, meeting with guys, guys like you who actually are visionary leaders who have just this great story to tell and helping you share that story. I mean, obviously, you know, what you've done in creating actually your own format to be able to help not only tell your story, but, you know, get inside the mind of other, you know, leaders in the industry and share this on this podcast is phenomenal. I mean, I really am so impressed. I've been actually plugging into some of your episodes and man, so insightful. Because one thing that you have actually that I love is, you know, what it's like out in the street. You know, it's like to build up a mortgage company. You know, it's like to be out there and you have all the wounds, you know, where all the bodies are buried. And it's something that has definitely been. It's helped this show greatly, I believe.
- [03:39]
A
Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. So we like to start the show with our just a quick icebreaker and it's something that everybody does. So what, what is your daily morning routine? How do you start your day?
- [03:52]
B
Okay, so 4:00 in the morning, alarm goes off, go inside, wake up. Basically it's 4 o'clock, I go meditate, you know, right off the bat, meditate, then meditate, then quick workout. You know, there's a later workout later on the day, but there's like a, you know, like a five minute quick workout just to get the blood pumping, do some reading. I got a little bit of a journal, just writing a journal and just I. And this might sound corny, but you know something, it really helps me. Every day I look in the mirror, I just kind of give, give thanks and, you know, basically have a conversation with myself and remind myself, you know, of the things that are important to me and the things I want to get done for that day. And that just kind of sets the. Sets the path. I mean, it's something that I've done little bits of these things for a lot of my life. But, you know, this practice of doing this has ramped up, obviously over like the last two years. And it helps me have a day with purpose. It helps me have a day where I'm controlling the day. As I start off the day, actually with just this great mindset, no matter what happens to me, it's difficult to get me off that great, strong mindset.
- [05:07]
A
Man, that sounds like a winning morning Routine right there. I mean, that's pretty regimented. You know, journaling, working out, meditation, prayer, you know, a motivational boost for yourself. That, that's pretty legit. And this is why I love to ask that question. Because anytime I speak with the founder, everyone's got a great morning routine. And everyone's got some, some sort of insight I personally like to always, you know, learn from.
- [05:30]
B
So what's your morning routine like?
- [05:33]
A
My morning routine is I wake up, I have to do a bunch of chores, I got to put away all the dishes for the kids. But while I'm doing that, I'm doing some red light. So I like to do things concurrently. I do the dishes, red light therapy concurrently. And then I do, then I do a stretching routine. I use an app called Pliability. And then, and then we get the kids ready, we get them off to school, and then I do a workout. So then that's every single day I try to fit in, you know, some prayer time as well. And this is why I asked this, like I had a five minute gratitude journal that I was doing, and then I fall off the bandwagon. I have to continually remind myself that I need to reincorporate.
- [06:16]
B
It's so great. We've so much to be thankful for. You have so much to be thankful for.
- [06:19]
A
So much to be thankful for.
- [06:20]
B
And it's, it's amazing. You've got a healthy family. Healthy, beautiful family. Got a great business that's just growing. I mean, there's so much in this world to be thankful for. I mean, and forget about all that. Even if we just, we just walk and we have the sun shining at us, you know, I just.
- [06:35]
A
To be alive. You're thankful.
- [06:37]
B
Life is a miracle. I mean, you know, I mean, there's so many things. First off, to just be born, that itself is a miracle, you know, and then actually, then you, you've made it actually, you know, to, to, to our 40s here. You know, you're in the early part, I'm in the end of my 40s. But you know, like, the fact actually is that there have been so many things that have happened that could have actually turned a different way. And, and thank God we're actually doing exactly things.
- [07:04]
A
Got healthy kids, they're, they're aspiring to be good people and that, that's all we want as parents, right? Be good, good role models for our kids. So you got a fascinating story how you got started in the mortgage industry. I know you're, you have a lineage in this space, so let's talk a little bit about that. What year do you start in the mortgage industry?
- [07:24]
B
All right, so my dad was a mortgage broker. Going in. And this is like in. In the 80s, he was. He was a broker. And in the 90s, I started getting involved in this mortgage company. I was an originator, technically at 17, when I was legally not allowed to sign documents. But back then there was no rules. You charged what you wanted to, did what XD whatever you wanted to, which is not a great time, I think, for a lot of people. But in the mortgage business, what I loved about it is the work that we were doing was great. You saw the fruits of our labor. But I felt like, see that there was something bigger for me. I felt like, see that the ability to kind of inspire people to have mortgages, to kind of help our originators write mortgages. I had a better calling for that. So I started working on the marketing in the mortgage company. And then just as a side hustle at the end of a refi boom, we just started publishing a magazine for the New York mortgage professionals, New York Mortgage Brokers. And it was a little side business that we did. I'm like, whoa, whoa, hold on for a second. So rather than actually, you know, just helping actually a handful of our originator, we had two originators at the time. We can, you know, inspire tens of thousands of brokers. Well, at that, it was thousands of brokers, you know, to help them close more loans. And we just started publishing these magazines and started taking this approach, say, hey, you know, something that we're not going to just do this in New York. We're going to take this and we're going to do this to all these other states. And we became the official magazine for mortgage brokers in the Mortgage broker association within 37 states. And we had. We had about 270,000 people that were reading our publication, and it was the publication for mortgage brokers. So if you were the mortgage broker, you know, in the, in the 2000s, you were, you know, reading our publication, you were going to our events. We had these big events where one of our biggest was, of course, in. In Irvine. We had like, you know, 3,000 people showing up for it. Melville, which we had 5,500 people showing up for it. But that was, that was actually our, you know, the publication that we started. And then in 2008, things went a different way. And we saw actually the mortgage broker got their. They got their teeth kicked in. They were basically made a scapegoat for the great financial crisis. And from that, we saw actually a change in the market. We said, but there's something that was happening in 2009 or 2008 that we said, hey, there's still some great originators that are still cranking out loans. And that's when we created a new model National Mortgage Professional. And that's what you see today. NMP is National Mortgage Professional magazine. That's what you were on the COVID of, where we basically said there were people actually through the 2000s and today that always figured out a way not focus on the negativity, not focus on all the bad stuff, because there's so much bad stuff that you could focus on and just focus on how do we help people? You know, what do we do to kind of continue to drive loans?
- [10:38]
A
I love that, and I love that you built the company during the greatest pitfall in the mortgage industry. But one thing that. That's, number one, it's very inspiring. But number two, this is what, you know, people would say you were crazy to do. But why were you crazy enough to start a company in the middle of the greatest recession in history?
- [11:03]
B
You know, it was. It was. It's the people like. Like during that time, and it was a dark time, I mean, like, you know, to see. I mean, we. We had. We had a million dollars in bankruptcy clawbacks where, you know, companies were going out of business, and the bankruptcy courts were coming after us and say, hey, the money that these companies paid you, you need to pay back. And that was a difficult thing. But you saw that. You saw. And there were loans that were just bad. You know, you just looked at these and, like, what were we doing? I mean, why as an industry, were we embracing some of these loan types? And there's a lot of things that we could be negative about, but there were some great people that were still cranking out loans. There were some great people that had some great strategies, and we built a model based on that. And part of that was this group, Mortgage Revolution, as a handful of these guys that got together, created an event called Mortgage Revolution. And that Mortgage Revolution just kind of opened my eyes and kind of inspired me, you know, to kind of grow and focus on people that were kicking butt. They were doing great things, doing great business in 2009, and didn't make a difference what was happening with the rest of the market.
- [12:12]
A
I love that. You know, you. One thing I really admire about what you do, and, you know, you're always on. It's like you got this crazy work ethic and you're Always grinding. You always, you got some new idea you're putting on, you're publishing the magazine, you're doing the events, you're networking with, you know, all the biggest leaders in the space. You know, you're, you got, I think you got other, you got two other businesses that you know as well. You're. And we won't talk about those other companies that you have. You have a couple other companies. Your work ethic is like, next level. What do you think is the driver for your work ethic?
- [12:54]
B
So at the end of the day, I just like helping people. I mean, that's whatever, whatever it is. I like helping people. And that's, and that usually starts with having conversations with people and all of the businesses that I'm involved in. It all, it's all based on conversations, you know, like understanding actually what is going on inside your head, how I could help you, how it could help you grow your business, how it can help you do the things that you're looking to do. And that's basically it. So helping people just starts with having conversations. I love having conversations. And that's why I just came up with this title of engagement and outreach, because the more you engage with people, the more you're going to be able to help them find out what, what they need and be able to serve them. And for, for with nmp, it's working with our clients on helping them, you know, figure out what they need, you know, to do to, to connect with more mortgage professionals out there. Bring, whether it's mortgage brokers that are, that are being sought by wholesale lenders or the tech vendors out there that are trying to connect with more mortgage professionals. But like, what is it about that their, their solutions that they feel that can help the mortgage professionals? And this is what I love doing.
- [14:11]
A
I love that. So that, so being of service is your primary catalyst to really starting NMP.
- [14:17]
B
100%. That's it. That's whatever I do actually. Whether it's, whether it's things in my community, whether it's things I've done in my synagogue, you know, it is always actually just what could I do? How could I help? I have a difficult time saying no to people, which is probably one of the things that is one of my biggest flaws. But if someone needs help, how do I say no?
- [14:42]
A
Yeah, you guys just got done celebrating Passover, so just pass a blessed Passover feast to you. Thank you. Now let's talk about some of the challenges that you faced with nmp, the early challenges. So talk about when you started NMP magazine. What do you think some of the biggest challenges were for you? Or do you want to go back before NMP and then what kind of.
- [15:06]
B
Well, you know something because, because I'd say before nmp, I mean just every, every month was just better than the previous month. Like there was, there was, we couldn't do anything wrong. Like and when we started in 94, we just grew and grew and grew and grew. So like, and I mean there was no challenges and I feel like there was no challenges. Obviously there was, there were challenges but I probably glorify just thinking about all of positive things that happened because I mean challenges, you have day to day challenges, things that fail. But I mean you fail, you, you know not to do that again, you fail actually, you know, you learn from that. And how do we make it better? How to make sure you don't. But, but I'd say actually my biggest challenge was probably in you know, building up something from, from nothing. You know, when we, when we like when we had to shut down the mortgage press and really actually create this new engine that would, that would fit the new Mortgage Professional. I mean that was somewhat difficult and inspiring actually. And a team of people actually who were battered. I mean we like, you know, all we did is just covered actually, you know, the foreclosures and even just like I'm just thinking about this when we, when we created National Mortgage Professional magazine. So we wanted to put together a list of wholesale lenders. The name of the list was who's left in Wholesale. That was it. There was only a handful of companies. This is one of those companies today is dominating UWM. You think about this. In 2008 they really actually just said we see actually a great opportunity. 2009, I always love this. I think of, you know, we did an interview with, with Matt ishpia and in 2009 Matt said something to the effect of, I'm paraphrasing here. He said we believe that the best option for home buyers is the mortgage broker. We interviewed him.
- [17:12]
A
Like he still says that. That's still like a tagline.
- [17:15]
B
The only thing that's, the only thing that's, that's that's changed on that 2009 he said it with much greater conviction saying like and I paraphrasing here, but we know the best place for borrowers to get their mortgages through the mortgage broker.
- [17:28]
A
And now that's supported by HMDA data. Like hey, it's 90 $400 cheaper to go through a mortgage broker. That is A statistical fact.
- [17:39]
B
And the other thing I also love about, you know, and this is, this is actually now we're going into a different direction. But talk about my love for the broker, because my dad is a broker, I believe actually in the broker model because, well, you know something, the brokers are better. You know, phrase kind of gets me a little weird because I feel like it's too much focused on actually a business model. But one thing that's undeniable, mortgage brokers are better for our communities. Mortgage brokers. Because when you have a mortgage broker, mortgage broker, the money's being kept. In our communities, money is going to support, you know, local little leagues. Money's going to support, you know, hire people locally. It's being spent locally in local businesses. So I think that's, that is an undeniable fact, actually, that mortgage brokers are better for our communities. And in most cases, they're going to be better for, for, for borrowers. You know, if you, whenever people ask me, you know, where they should be getting their, their, their mortgage from, my personal friends, I'm introducing them to mortgage brokers.
- [18:35]
A
Yeah, it's a, it's a fact. It's a fact. Now you have such a solid, grounded lifestyle and you were inspired by your father to enter the mortgage space.
- [18:49]
B
Yeah.
- [18:50]
A
Now do you think that your children are going to be inspired to enter the mortgage space?
- [18:58]
B
Probably not. But then later on, you never know. You know, like most people that go into the mortgage business whose parents were in the mortgage business never intend to be in the mortgage business. You know, I mean, if you think about this, like, most of the people that I know, at least that have been in the mortgage business, they went on and they did other things and they came back because they're like, hey, you know something, it's such a great business. I still think it's a great business, you know, so. And I'm going to turn this on you because that's, that's my feeling. I don't think my kids are right now. They're not looking at the mortgage business. Well, one actually is destined for college. She must do child psychology. And the other one, you know, she just wants to be an influencer. So do you think actually your kids are going to, you know, for the mortgage business?
- [19:45]
A
For me, I, I love that because you do podcast, too. So we have this, like, reciprocated podcast going on here.
- [19:52]
B
I only know how to ask questions, not answer them.
- [19:57]
A
For me, because I'm, I'm Egyptian and in, in my, my heritage, your parents always Want you to be a doctor.
- [20:05]
B
Yeah.
- [20:05]
A
Now, now I would like my kids to go down that route. The I would like them to be doctors. And the reason why is because I know the struggle of when you start in the mortgage space. I know how much I had to work. I know how much I had to get denied. I know how thick a skin I had to have to just prepare. I still get denied all the time. If you watch my content right now, it's very bold and it's, I'm always being denied, but I have such thick skin that I'm so good at just getting rejected.
- [20:33]
B
Yep.
- [20:34]
A
So I don't know if I want my kids to suffer through that. Yeah.
- [20:39]
B
Character.
- [20:39]
A
It does.
- [20:40]
B
I mean, it's, it's.
- [20:41]
A
I, I mean, like, failure does build character. It's just hard to watch your kids fail.
- [20:46]
B
I know, but you know something, and believe me, I know. I'm, I, I, I wrestle with this all the time. I'm always like, you know, I, I say to my wife, I'm, I'm the one, and, well, maybe we should just let him do this.
- [20:55]
A
But if your kid wants to be an influencer, all that is, the only way to be an influencer is to get rejected all the time. Because influencers are the ones who do the content that no one's willing to do.
- [21:06]
B
I mean, so, so you have what was a thousand originators that work for you right now?
- [21:10]
A
Yeah, about 900ish.
- [21:11]
B
Okay, so how many people have told you no to get that? Thousand. Like you probably 20,000 originators, you know, probably even more. To actually join your team to get to that thousand people to have the kind of production you have.
- [21:25]
A
Yep, that's right. But now, thankfully, because of social media and having such a big brand, it's a lot easier. And I don't have to be doing the recruiting anymore. I just build, I continue just to build the brand and make it like the Pepsi of the mortgage space. So people are like, I want to drink Pepsi. Or, you know, their kids know me, so they're like, I want to go work there. Yeah. Or the Coke.
- [21:44]
B
Yeah.
- [21:45]
A
So, so it's, it's getting a little easier. But, you know, it's, it's funny to talk about, do we want our kids to enter the mortgage space? And, you know, that was actually my next question. It's like, what trends do you foresee in the mortgage industry on your side? Because I see, you know, AI doing a lot of this and wiping out a lot of originators because we're doing it now with AI.
- [22:08]
B
Well, so, so here's the thing. And listen, right now, financially, it might not be the best time to buy. Like, if you were looking actually at buying a home from, from just a, like a financial case, you know, there are many cases where home ownership doesn't hold water. However, emotionally it does. In so many cases, you know, if you want to stay in the same community, if you want to actually have your kids go to the same school, if you want to be able to control your community and not be, you know, based on, you know, what's going to happen with what your landlord wants to do with that piece of property. So if you want control, it's based on, you know, home ownership. So. Well, so. And I don't know actually how AI, at least in the foreseeable future will be able to have that feeling that.
- [23:07]
A
Yeah, it's not going to get. Yeah. AI is replacing a lot of the marketing efforts for originators. It's replacing a lot of the monotony of going through the application. What AI can never, ever, ever do is replace the relationship, the human relationship. Exactly.
- [23:27]
B
Right here.
- [23:28]
A
So what people, originators are going to have to get good at, which they have lost that skill set, is this. Because what Covid did, the worst part about COVID is it took humanity away, you know, and it turned into a digital world. Right. So that's why I refuse. We have yet, we've done 30 podcast episodes. I've refused until I get, I don't know, I'd have to interview like, you know, Donald Trump or something, but I've refused to do any podcast over, over Streamyard, over Zoom, because the human connection is everything. And like we were talking about earlier, like, if I sit with you for one hour and I have a cadence of questions of 20 questions, I'm gonna talk to you about. Like, we basically just had the best date you can ever have. Like, we just hit it off like. No, think about it. Like, if you sat with your wife right now and did this, how much better of a relationship would you have in just, in a one hour podcast? I, you know, goodness.
- [24:30]
B
Yeah, but people should be doing that. It's 100. Like. So one of the things, like I, I do and my, my wife, we, we take walks. We, we, you know, we've talked about this.
- [24:40]
A
You and I, the talks you and your wife take. The, the walks you and your wife take.
- [24:44]
B
Yeah, because, because we equate it to like this podcast. I mean, this is this because I, whether, whether actually you do it actually as a, as a mic in front of you or take walks. But, like, I think actually that that's something that. That is an important thing. I'm curious, so you and Sam, do you guys, like, have conversations where you were like, have you had the opportunity? Because you guys are obviously talking to each other, communicating each other, with each other, but, you know, and spending time. But. But do you have conversations like this?
- [25:16]
A
We do. We do our lunches. We do it. And then we just had one yesterday, and then I took them over. And then after that, we. We extended lunch and we drove down to the Travis Matthews headquarters and did a. But. But, you know, we tr. It is imperative for our business relationship, even though we've been friends for three decades as business partners, to have these. These luncheons at least weekly, even though we're buried back to back meetings all the time, to have a meeting where we just, you know, there's some business elements to it. But then it's like, hey, like, let's remember we're friends and have that, you know. But one thing, and I've been meaning to do this with my wife and my business partner is have this podcast with them because I feel like it's just gonna.
- [25:57]
B
Oh, my goodness. I can't wait. Oh, my goodness.
- [25:59]
A
Yeah, I'm gonna have a podcast. I'm gonna do a podcast with my wife. I'm gonna do a podcast with my business partner, and the one I'm really gonna do a podcast, I really want to do a podcast with is my mom.
- [26:10]
B
Yes, yes. Oh, my goodness. Also one of. So Jay Duran is like a guy who's been inspirational to me. He focuses on. On pod. On culture.
- [26:22]
A
Jay Shetty, you mean?
- [26:23]
B
No, Jay Duran.
- [26:24]
A
Okay, Jay Shetty. Also, he's the one who gave me the idea. He's one of the biggest podcasters, and he did a podcast with his mom.
- [26:30]
B
Well, so Jay Duran had actually, you know, his mom on. And. And it was. It's. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Especially if you. You understand a lot about the podcaster. So your mom being on here. Oh, my goodness, I can't wait for that.
- [26:48]
A
Yeah.
- [26:49]
B
When are we making this happen?
- [26:50]
A
It's. It's on. They're gonna be guests. I got. I gotta figure out, oh, it's Mother's Day. Oh. Oh, that. That's a good idea.
- [26:59]
B
Oh.
- [26:59]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I gotta. I gotta. You know what? Because just to, like, I'm. I. I can honestly say I don't have super deep conversations with my mom, you know, and I think that Your parents are owed that. But do you, you know, as. As kids, do we do that with our parents? Like, do we go, hey, so what's your goals? Like what. What do you, you know, like, it's.
- [27:22]
B
It's like, it's transactional. It's like.
- [27:24]
A
Yeah, it's very transactional. It's, you know, it's not fair. It's not fair.
- [27:29]
B
So when was the last time you, like, went out to dinner with your mom or just. Just.
- [27:34]
A
Yeah, not me and her, but my mom is always. She's like, she always cooks. She's amazing. She's Greek and Egyptian. So the food is, you know, big part of our culture. Yeah, like an incredible cook, you know, and my kids all know that. And, you know, I don't get to. I don't get to go on dates with my mom. Like, I'd like to. Right. But it needs to be more on the radar and being so busy now. You know, my wife wants a date. My daughter wants a date. My youngest, my. My two boys want daddy. Daddy. Sundays, it's like everybody wants a separate day, and I have zero time to begin with. Like, about six hours a day. Five to six. Six hours comfortably.
- [28:16]
B
Yeah, that's good.
- [28:16]
A
And I do, like, from. I do 10pm to 4:30am Is that.
- [28:21]
B
Like 10pm hard, like, you know.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's. It slides out.
- [28:24]
B
You're.
- [28:24]
A
Again, I got to get to bed.
- [28:26]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:27]
A
Because I also have toddlers. They'll be up at 5 anyway, so if I'm not going to bed by 10, I'm not gonna sleep. Oh, yeah. So. So what. What do you, what do you think? What do you. What. What do you foresee in the mortgage industry? You know, being. Because you do what I do, you talk to a lot of industry professionals. Like, any trends you're seeing on the horizon.
- [28:50]
B
I mean, sadly, I think we have. We have a lot more pain to go through. I think as an industry overall, we have a lot more pain. I. It's. I don't think. Well, everyone's agreeing pretty much that we're not going to see rates come down this year.
- [29:05]
A
That's pretty unanimous.
- [29:06]
B
Now it's.
- [29:08]
A
Federal Reserve has no intention.
- [29:10]
B
No, it's never. I mean, the biggest indicators showing. Actually, it's not happening. I personally don't think. I think actually we need to see more bloodshed more. Yeah, more bloodshed. We need to see, you know, the employment change significantly. So, I mean, we're talking maybe end of next year, middle of next year. And. And right now, so many Lenders, you know, mortgage bankers, they're not running on fumes. They're out of the car, pushing the car. You know, they're in some cases injecting their own, their own capital to keep their businesses floating. And we see actually acquisitions all the time. There's no such thing as a merger. You're basically getting acquired. A merger that's basically just making you feel better about that merger. So I think we're going to see a lot more blood on the streets. But on the other side is the broker is just doing phenomenal. I mean, every story that I know of people winning are brokers, brokers actually just in this great place because as brokers, first off, we have this variable cost model, you know, where really actually you don't necessarily. Yes, I know we have big, beautiful, giant office space here. But you're empowering, you know, almost a thousand originators that. But, but they're brokers.
- [30:29]
A
I mean like when you think about, you're talking about brokers have a variable cost model. Most of the people that work at E Mortgage Capital brokers broker, they were former broker owners. So you talk about variable. If they come to emc, they get a multimillion dollar monthly ecosystem variable, you know, variable. You pay $0 for it. You, you, you pay a tiny percentage of your gross revenue. So you, so we see here people thriving, same with all the other top mortgage companies. And that's why there's like six, seven of us kind of controlling the narrative of the industry because we're able to empower small brokers to survive in a declining environment. So that's what, that's why, you know, you, you're, you're, you're obviously collaborating with all these big mega brokers because, you know, we're positioned and poised to survive the headwinds coming.
- [31:21]
B
Yeah, and, and the thing I said I love about the, the mega brokers because listen to me, I look at, you know, you guys are, it's not just broker. You, you guys are also have banking options too. Yeah, you have the ability to see your, this hybrid model. So I kind of classified as these mega brokers. But, but what you guys do that, that you know, was not around until until recently. I'm talking about like the last five years was bringing distributed retail resources to the broker model. And that's the game changer for so many originators out there that want to embrace the broker model. But you know, I think we have.
- [31:59]
A
A better tech stack than any more retail originator out there. I mean our technology is bar none Especially the relationships we have because I figured out a way to strategically empower my vendor relationships, my technology partners, you know, and that thus they'll just reciprocate it back to our company.
- [32:18]
B
Well, you know something then I'm going to invite you to Vegas in August to actually compete for best tech stack. Would you accept that invitation?
- [32:26]
A
Sure, let's do it. Oh yeah. I mean by August. No, I'm not. No one's going to be able to compete with me.
- [32:32]
B
You know, I have to. He know he shared some stuff with me that might be the case. Yeah.
- [32:40]
A
There's no way. Just because of, because I'm, I'm. I'm integrating a massive marketing ecosystem and empowering our vendors through it. So it's like they want, they, they want to work and collaborate with us just because I'm going to give them a platform they didn't have. And you know me, I'm willing to invest. I'm willing to go all in on marketing and branding. I'm willing and that, you know, I'm willing to just invest millions into marketing and branding and continue to. Because what right now what's happening is a massive snowball for our brand. So I'll just continue to invest in our company brand, my personal branding and the coffees foreclosers branding. I have three companies I'm branding to build and just drive traffic.
- [33:18]
B
So when did that shift happen? Like when did you was there.
- [33:21]
A
I pivoted from recruiting full time and originating full time. Do it now. I originate because it's on autopilot. I take a call, I pass it off to the team and it's like I'm done. And then so I have my, you know, I have a massive book of business so I don't have to do a lot of legwork on my personal originations. I do have to take like today I was dealing with some fuming escrow calls and I have to do that. Like why. While I had it, while I had it pre made a cat, you know.
- [33:46]
B
On the COVID of N and P. Yeah, because you're still dealing with at a loan level as well as dealing.
- [33:50]
A
With the entire switching calls between that and then like the cremation company and then the, you know, sadly my cat had to pat and passed away so we had to deal with that today. And then, and then I'm messaging you to start this, to film this episode. All, all, you know. So I mean I'm a really good multitasker. But. But this year 2024, I pivoted from. Because Recruiting was just consuming me. It would be like, call, call, call, call, call, call, call every 30 minutes. And I had to.
- [34:20]
B
The same thing.
- [34:21]
A
Yeah, it's like you're saying the same. The robot. So I had someone, a good friend of mine, Sean, and now he's VP of strategic partnerships. He, he sat in on a couple calls, like, I'll just do that for you. And he, he. And he counts. He's like, I've saved you 655 hours of time. So what did I do? I was like, you know, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna create this show. I'm gonna do these podcasts, and then I want to be the biggest brand on social media in the mortgage industry. And I was able to accomplish both of those, you know, this year in a very, very short period of time. Now I have the biggest following on social media in the mortgage space. You know, the show is growing, like enormously. So we, everyone's watching it in the space and then people outside of the mortgage space are watching it because, you know, we're, we're going after. We interview different tech entrepreneurs and you know, real estate, publicly traded companies, founders. And so it's all founders of different verticals. So, so the audience is growing and we're on every platform. Tick tock. YouTube, Facebook. So we, and when we aggregate the viewership, it's in the hundreds of thousands, right?
- [35:24]
B
Millions. I just saw some of your followers. You put all your accounts together.
- [35:27]
A
Yeah, well, we have millions.
- [35:29]
B
Corvettes, Closers, your personal. I mean, this is.
- [35:32]
A
We have millions of followers, millions of followers across all platforms so far.
- [35:37]
B
Millions of people will know about it. This is just. This is it.
- [35:39]
A
Yeah, so. So that was an initiative I went heavy after this year and it came with a lot of backlash because I went heavy on investing. And I want to be on every platform. So people are like, I want to be on just Facebook or I want to be on Instagram. Like, no, I want to be on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, Snapchat, Twitch, Kik. We haven't launched MySpace yet. I'm looking at that just because it's, it's more of a music platform. But I even think about how, because we're on SoundCloud, we're on iTunes, we're on.
- [36:09]
B
Really?
- [36:09]
A
Yeah, we're on. Yeah, we're on WhatsApp. We have a WhatsApp media page. We have a, I mean, we have, I think, 20 plus platforms that we're on. And I'm looking and, and I don't ask you Or I. Where should I be? I ask your kids, like, what are you listening to? That's why I'm on Twitch and I'm on Discord and I'm on, you know, my loyalties.
- [36:29]
B
I already know my kids. They don't. They. They have no clue.
- [36:33]
A
And, and so we're streaming on Twitch right now. We're streaming on Kick right now.
- [36:36]
B
That's great.
- [36:37]
A
We're streaming on. Yeah. So we try to aggregate every platform wherever there's eyeballs. And not just eyeballs. Like my 10 year old daughter's like, I listen to your podcast. It's boring. I, you know, like, I don't really like it. I'm like, you're 10, you're not supposed to like it. It's not supposed to be fun for you. I get it. The content doesn't relate. But your friend's parents like it and you knew about it because you know it somehow filtered down to you.
- [37:04]
B
You got to just cut it up. They like the microcontroller.
- [37:06]
A
Yeah. They like this episode.
- [37:08]
B
There's probably like four or five seconds that are a lot. With love.
- [37:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So as soon as I could figure out how to make this podcast relative for 10 year olds, then I'm really winning.
- [37:18]
B
Yeah.
- [37:19]
A
Then I.
- [37:19]
B
10 year olds like this right here. This is when you talk about your, about your daughter. You know, the 10 seconds. This is the most interesting thing. They'll. If you send this to them, they'll be interested in that.
- [37:29]
A
This is cool, dad. And then I have to put Taylor Swift over it. I gotta do a Taylor Swift overlay.
- [37:33]
B
But I mean, come on, why not, man? She is good, man. Yeah.
- [37:37]
A
Yeah, she's amazing. She's amazing. I mean, the, the, the Michael Jackson of the generation. I guess so. But if I add. Actually, we need to actually add some Taylor Swift music and overlays on some of these podcasts. They'll go viral.
- [37:50]
B
Now it's Olivia Rodrigo is the new Taylor Swift. Oh, see, yeah, that's. My daughters have been exposing me to this. It's good, man. I'm singing her songs, man. She's taking off. I'm. I'm now becoming a Not a Swifty Rodrigo. I don't know what they call them, but it's good. It's good stuff.
- [38:06]
A
I love that. I love that. Actually, since we're on the top of kids, I like to always talk about family on this show. How are you keeping your kids grounded and sustaining that grit, like that grit mentality that you have?
- [38:21]
B
You know, I, I don't Know, I, I really, I don't, I don't know how but somehow they're picking it up. I mean like my daughter. So child psychology, she's found her path, you know, in this world and she does babysitting. But babysitting specifically, you know, looks for families that have emotional needs.
- [38:47]
A
Stay in town with you by the way, just in case I need one for the next couple days.
- [38:52]
B
No, but, but she'll gladly actually come to Southern California anytime. But, but so, but and she's just constantly working like so if she's not, she's not working on her schoolwork, she's, she's at home reading or babysitting as much as she possibly can.
- [39:10]
A
They make big bucks now. 30 bucks, 40 bucks an hour, these kids.
- [39:13]
B
Yeah, she's, and this is, this is a battle I have with her. She, she showed she'll take actually anyone. Like, like she'll do for 20. She feels bad. She's like no, no, ask for more. She's like, but no, they can't, they can't afford it. Like, trust me, they can afford it.
- [39:29]
A
Care.com and that's the rate that you charge. Whatever care is charging, that's your hourly rate.
- [39:35]
B
And then, and then because actually like she's had so much invested into her career and it's, it's amazing to know that my 16 year old daughter has a career and knows what she wants to do with herself and is just constantly hustling to actually do whatever she can to kind of advance herself and she just doesn't, she doesn't rest. She doesn't rest.
- [39:53]
A
So amazing. That's amazing.
- [39:56]
B
And I don't think, and I've never really talked to her about it. I don't think I've really encouraged her to do this. I think she's just following, just c secting me constantly working, constantly doing things. Because if I'm not working doing things I could afford for business or with my wife, I'm spending time with them. I have this thing like the daddy daughter crew. And like you know, for, for years and years I would post text everywhere we would go it would be daddy daughter crew. But like I would just spend lots of time. Now actually as they get old they're like dad, do you have to post photos of us everywhere we go? So now I'm a little more private about X air time. But they love spending time with me and they know actually that my two favorite things or three favorite things I guess is spending time with them, working and spending time with my wife.
- [40:40]
A
That's awesome. That's awesome that you're, and that's awesome that they're picking up that momentum from you, that drive from you. I was actually giving props to my 10 year old daughter because she went from school a full school day, then she went to private dance lessons, then she went to a dance class, then she went to horseback riding, then she went to do her homework and she basically worked an 8 to 7 job. I mean that's, you know, like, that's like she just grinded through all that. I mean, so they, they tend to pick up like the grit. I'm like, you're just like your dad very add need something to do all day long. You need to be always like productive, you know, so, so I, and, and I was able to acknowledge that and just give her props. She didn't care about my props. But you know, they never do. So do you think there's a specific skill or mindset that one must have to be successful right now in the mortgage industry?
- [41:40]
B
So, so something actually Jeremy for said said this and I, and I just like it's, it's stuck in my head and I started realizing like, you know, everyone I know who's succeeding, you know, has kind of follow this and it's trying to remember it's standards over feelings, you know, where you don't, you don't go away from the things that have made you successful. So if you know actually that it takes you 20 calls a week to be able to deliver the kind of production you know, you used to produce, you don't actually step away from that. You don't actually, you make sure you have those same standards and you just gotta focus. And there's so much things to focus on, so much negativity, so much controversy in the mortgage space that can really just take your energy away. But it's basically just staying focused and continuously executing a plan. And really. So that's it, man. A plan is. Because, you know, and I say this all the time and this is one thing I do talk to my kids about, you know, you know, failure to plan is a failure to plan is a plan to fail. I mean, it's just simple as that. You know, if you don't know where you're going, you know, well, you'll probably end up there. But if you have a destination and you think about exito, making sure that you're doing the things to get to that, that destination and making sure you enjoy the journey, you know, whether it sucks, whether it's great, you know, just know Actually that, you know, you're doing it to accomplish whatever you're accomplishing. When it's working out, whatever it is.
- [43:13]
A
I love that it actually ties into my next question because you've been successful for so many years. I mean, you started doing this in the 90s, then you took off with NMP magazine. Now you did the big acquisition for Ambiz. Now after years and years and years of success, you know, you don't really need to do this anymore. Like you're like, you could step back and just, you know, relax. You could step back and not work. Given the success you've had over all these years, how do you continue to find motivation to grind every day like you do?
- [43:44]
B
I mean, I don't, I don't. It's. To me, there's no other mode like what am I going to do? I love having the ability to have conversations with people that fascinate me. I love helping people grow their business. I love actually, you know, I love doing what I do. So I also have actually, you know, two girls that want to go to, to private colleges and probably are going to want big, big giant weddings. And I want actually to have, you know, the, the, the kind of AXO lifestyle that my wife could have actually and I could have actually when, when they do that, where we don't have to think about actually watching bills or anything like that. So it's important so that we can continue to grow our lifestyle, continue to do better, continue to do things, be able to actually to have not only that, but to create a great legacy for my grandchildren. So there's just no, there's either two modes. There's slow down or speed up. I'm not going to slow down. And the speed up and just continue to grow just only means that I'm just going to create a legacy for myself, create a legacy for my grandchildren. Because listen, I mean, I don't know my great grandparents names and that's unfortunate. I'm really actually sad that I had to actually do a family tree to actually figure out who they are. I want my great, great, great grandchildren to know who I am because I set them on a path and that actually doesn't, doesn't actually happen from slowing down at any point in life.
- [45:19]
A
I love that you're always grinding and you want to build a massive legacy. I love that. I love that. Andrew, you know, you're even inspiring me to level up, right? I got a couple last questions about you now. Well, let's actually talk about before I get into my last Questions? There's so much talent at Ambiz and at nmp. How are you continuing to foster talent there?
- [45:47]
B
So, you know, and that's one thing I have to say. So our CEO of Vince Valvo has made some hires that I'm just like, I don't understand. Why would you hire them? They turn out to be these amazing people, like in these, the staff that we have at Ambiz right now, you know, well, they don't have mortgage experience, they don't have business experience, but they've turned out to be these amazing people that have, that have actually embraced the mortgage business and have found the greatness that is the mortgage business and the power of what we do in the mortgage business. So I give Vince credit for that because I've never been great at hiring. I look at everything. I have one great hire, and that great hire actually is a person next to that kind of helped, you know, facilitate the, the, the acquisition of nmp, you know, into, into Ambis. So, so I would say that, you know, it's not something that I would necessarily say that I've mastered, but I've been fortunate to work with some great people that have, have mastered, you know, how you hire great, great talent.
- [46:56]
A
You know, Vince is a great partner for you. He seems to be the yin to your Yankees, you know, being able to just kind of close the gap. That's, that's the part that any good company has a great partner like that.
- [47:09]
B
Yeah, listen, no question about it, Vince. I've learned so much off the guy, and he continues to guide our organization in great ways and it allows me to kind of focus on connecting with great people, you know, helping to share their story.
- [47:29]
A
Excellent. Okay, so one last question I have for you. So you, if you had. It's a three pronged question. Okay. What is a personal goal that you have for yourself? What is a business goal that you have for Ambiz Media and NMP magazine? And what is a family goal that you have for the family?
- [47:51]
B
Okay, all right, May, remember this. So we got family goal. We got Ambiz goal and personal goal.
- [48:01]
A
That's right.
- [48:02]
B
Okay, so. And the personal goal is for, for my wife and I to traverse the, the entire country from all the way up to Maine, all the way down the east coast, go across the country and go up to the. Go all the way up to California in a van. You know, that's, that's to me, just, just her and I, you know, maybe our dogs if they're around. But basically this is a personal goal. For me, you know, that's. So obviously in that case, our daughters will need to be, you know, out of the home, you know, ideally on their way with. With careers and be well on their way for us to be able to know that we don't need to be there physically and emotionally for them. So that's. That's. I'd say my. As a personal goal, actually, that I have with my wife and then so going on to Ambiz, you know, and I really actually would have to say. It's just. I don't necessarily. I mean, obviously I have financial markers where I want to see our revenue grow, but to me, it's just about continuing to influence and continuing to help originators grow their career. So today we're doing this thing called Build a Broker. Build a Broker. We've had actually as a platform, and people have come to this Build a Broker session, and they've learned how to set up their own mortgage brokerage. And from that, I've seen people come back to them and actually be like mentors, you know, helping other brokers to say, hey, this is what I did. I went to Build a broker. I learned this and I created my brokerage. So if you know what you should.
- [49:50]
A
Add to Build a Broker, I just thought of this right now is. Is like a panel of, like, me, Mike Tuan, you know, just, just another panel for. Hey, and here's the mega brokers, like, and see what they have and just like, open discussion, dialogue. Me and Mike, we're going to do a roadshow and actually talk about, like, the big broker shops. Me, Mike, Tom Ollis, and like, you know, just to. Just to inspire other brokers. Like, so there's the Build a Broker option, because me and you talked about this, like, but it's going to cost you three, four grand a month, and you got to do everything on your own. Or you could just tap into Mike or Tom or, or. Or Twan. Like, we're all. But we're, by the way, we're all friends, right? Everyone thinks we're all, like, fighting and, you know, like, we're all, like, we're buddies, right? They're all going to. Mike should be on the show tomorrow.
- [50:30]
B
Like, you know, I know you because Mike introduced.
- [50:33]
A
Exactly.
- [50:34]
B
You have to meet Joe.
- [50:35]
A
Yeah. So. So there should be a separate panel for them. So. So people have options. Because sometimes it's daunting, dude. Like, I got to go do all this. And like, forget it. What are you going to do when you get your first state audit now? Did you mention that now audits are multi state. They're very extensive. So, you know, I had like four people here working on it. Then they sent four people down to, you know, the auditors here to our office.
- [51:01]
B
It's scary.
- [51:02]
A
And it costs us like 60 grand.
- [51:04]
B
Yeah.
- [51:04]
A
Like, what's a broker going to do when he's out of commission to work for three weeks and he's got to flip a bill for 60 grand? So those are all new because that's how they're trying to facilitate more revenue. Right. They're, they're sending them here to just sit in our office at 80 bucks an hour.
- [51:18]
B
And to your point, and there's a lot of, well, there's a lot of originators who think they want to be owners but really are better as originators focusing on actually the origination of the business and don't need tax. They have to have to, you know, hassle with call reports. They don't even have to manage relationships with investors because we've done a bad.
- [51:37]
A
Job educating the community in terms of like, because, you know, mortgage company doesn't really have value. Like, it's not like you would go and sell it. No, it's not. Like we're not, we're not, we're not a tech company. You know, there's no like real like the value is the originator. Value is their business. So, so we just have to change. You. Ha. You should, I think you should have build a broker and like a panel and then we just talk about our businesses and how we can help them. So they just get options. Like, oh, I like Tuan or like Tom Hollis says and he was on the show and you know, we like to look at us mega brokers as F1 race cars. Like, you don't. Like, we're all f. We're all supercars. Like, which driver do you want? You want Lewis Hamilton? You want this guy or this guy? That's what it's about.
- [52:23]
B
It's like, yeah. So like, like, listen, I could get in that car and I'm. And I might potentially crash it. But you know, you take, you know, I don't know the driver's names, but you take someone who is a seasoned driver and you put them in that same car that I would be crashing into a wall. Well, they're gonna, they're gonna get exactly.
- [52:42]
A
So like I, I love every one of the mega brokers. I think we're all incredibly gifted, talented people. We have a advantage over everybody because we've rode many, many cycles of the Mortgage cycle. We've all been Megas producers, so, you know, and now we're in this position where everyone's declining. So I just think it would be good for you guys to have an additional panel for the big shops to come in and say, hey, if you want to go this route, go this route, we go be a broker. You know, I love it. You know, but, like, have. Because me and Mike, we're gonna do it anyway.
- [53:12]
B
Yeah.
- [53:12]
A
You know, so just like, piggybacking on that with you would be like, we'll just add it to our roadshow. Anyway, Mike wanted to do it. We talked about it on our aim committee. So, you know something, you know, you could kick that idea around. We'll talk about it at dinner or something.
- [53:26]
B
Yep.
- [53:26]
A
Sounds like. And then your family goal, so my.
- [53:31]
B
Family goal, I mean, and that's something that I'd say is more on my family, like, because, like, I can't determine what I want to have actually with, you know, with, with my daughters. I want them to have the ability to choose the path that they want. Now our. Our goal is actually always make sure that actually that we have a home that's going to be embracing, that they're going to want to actually bring. That they're going to want to come back. They're going to bring their, Their, Their children back. I mean, that's, that's, you know, that's the, the bare minimum. But the end of the day is just supporting them to do whatever they want to do, knowing actually that they know actually that they can go out there and they can try what they want to do. If they fail, they can come back. You know, we'll always actually be there for them, to support them.
- [54:21]
A
That's awesome. That's awesome. And one last question. And every podcast with this question, worried about this one. When you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?
- [54:38]
B
Okay. So I hope he doesn't show some footage. That's gonna be awkward. But listen, I think overall, you know, it's gonna know actually by the spirit of, of all my actions, it's going to know actually what I've done. And while, while I've certainly made lots of mistakes, certainly, you know, there, There have been plenty of judgment calls that maybe weren't the best at the time, but the spirit of what I've done has always been trying to do right by people, trying to help people. And I believe, actually, though, overall, I've done a lot more helping people than harm and I believe actually I will be looked at and I believe that was what I'll get the pass and not the exit to the bottom.
- [55:30]
A
There we go. I love the answer. God bless you. God bless your family. Thank you for coming on the show. Coffees for closers, guys. The legendary Andrew Berman, king of the mortgage magazine business for the entire globe. Thank you, Andrew. Yeah, we appreciate you. And Originator Connect 2024.