← Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Offshore Asset Protection Lawyer Explains Cook Islands Trusts ft. Blake Harris | Coffeez
00:39:43
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- [00:00]
A
Those of us doing business in America who reached a certain level of success become very juicy targets for a lawsuit in America. If you are successful enough, you can expect to be suited sometime.
- [00:12]
B
Welcome to another episode of Coffees.
- [00:14]
A
Joseph. Thanks for having me on the show.
- [00:16]
B
I'm so pumped that you're here for many, many reasons. Now, Blake, I like to start off the show with every one of our guests with the same question. What's your morning routine?
- [00:24]
A
What's my morning routine? So I live in Miami Beach, Florida. I like to roll out of bed and touch sand. I like. I'm a fan of earthing or grounding, whatever it's called nowadays. So I roll out of bed, I get down to the beach, and then I'll walk about 45 minutes on the beach, show up at 5th Street Gym in Miami beach, and do about an hour of Muay Thai punch, kick, elbow, knee. After I do that, any anger, any frustration, it's gone. I've left it on the bag. I walk home, and then I get to my day. Nothing that happens is going to upset me once I've done that. No client, no opposing counsel, no issue with family or an employee ever shocks me or ever upsets me because I let all out in the morning that I'm calm and ready to go for the day.
- [01:07]
B
Wow. So wait, you walk barefoot from your house to the gym, 45 minutes on
- [01:12]
A
the beach, step into the gym, do Muay Thai barefoot, and 45 minutes back? Yep. I'm put on some shoes for you today, Joseph, but generally I try to avoid footwear.
- [01:23]
B
That's awesome. What a life. That sounds like a dream come true, by the way.
- [01:26]
A
It. I like it. It's. It's not for everyone, but for. But for me, I. I do enjoy it.
- [01:31]
B
That's great. All right, cool. So let's just dive right into it. So, asset protection attorney. Now let's dive into who is it that really needs an asset protection attorney?
- [01:41]
A
Well, those of us doing business in America who've reached a certain level of success become very juicy targets. Who for a lawsuit in America, if you were successful enough, you can expect to be sued at some time. It's a very easy place to bring a lawsuit. You often don't have to pay any money upfront. You can hire an attorney on a contingency fee. There are attorneys out there who are advertising, stirring up litigation which would not otherwise be brought. The biggest misconception in the asset protection world is that asset protection is only for the super wealthy. And that's very far from true. The majority of people being sued have under $2 million in assets. The majority of our clients have somewhere between about 1 and $10 million in assets. Now, we do have quite a few clients whose net worth is a little bit under a million, and we do have clients whose net worth is significantly more than 10 million. But the majority of people setting up an asset protection trust with my law firm have somewhere between about 1 and $10 million in assets.
- [02:34]
B
Now, if I like most of our clients here, most of the people are listening to the show are entrepreneurs. The benefit to setting up to doing asset protection here in the US versus overseas. What do you think those differences are?
- [02:49]
A
Well, the benefit of doing in the United States is that it's going to be a little bit less. It's going to cost you a little bit less upfront. The downside of doing in the United States is going to cost you a lot more in the long run when it comes time to actually use your trust, to use your asset protection plan. The difference between a domestic trust and an offshore trust is very simple. One of those trusts, Joseph, can, can be broken by a US Court. The other trust cannot. And plaintiff attorneys know this. And when you're negotiating and you tell a plaintiff attorney that my assets are at a bank down the street or somewhere here in the United States controlled by a trustee here in the United States, plaintiff attorneys are not quick to back down because they know if they push hard enough, there's a good chance they're going to get the assets on the other side. If you can tell a plaintiff attorneys that your assets are controlled by a foreign trustee in a jurisdiction such as the Cook Islands, Nevis, or Belize, and the money's held in a bank account in Switzerland. And no matter what the US Court rules here, the assets are not going to be touched. You're going to have a plaintiff attorney who's much more willing to either drop their case entirely or take your settlement offer.
- [03:53]
B
Wow. I mean, so it's basically a negotiation play, but it allows you get to have a massive upper hand in the negotiation.
- [04:00]
A
It's a few things. It is a tool that gives you power to negotiate, but it's also a tool that even before negotiation begins, even before a lawsuit has been brought, it brings peace of mind and that there is very valuable in and of itself, even if the client never ends up getting sued.
- [04:17]
B
So at what point should an entrepreneur consider setting up asset protection?
- [04:24]
A
So generally, once their net worth gets to around a million, that's when they should look at setting up some type of asset Protection plan. Certainly when it gets to around $2 million in assets, they become very appetizing for a plaintiff attorney. Now, if you are in a position where you have a lot of liability, or a doctor, you're an attorney, or an engineer, or you have children who drive a car that you own, you're at an increased risk. And maybe even before you get to a million, you should be looking at setting up an asset protection plan. But generally, once your net worth gets to be one or two million dollars or more, it's definitely wise to do something so that in the position that if you get end up, so that if you end up getting sued, you have negotiation power and you've got the peace of mind.
- [05:03]
B
So what I did when, when I was married was we set up, we met with an attorney, asset protection attorney. We put all our properties in the trust, we put our death benefits, all this and that, and it was like eight grand. Now doing it overseas, obviously it's a lot more because you said you set up overseas bank accounts, you set up Swiss bank accounts, you set up all that so people have access to these offshore platforms.
- [05:25]
A
Well, so the type of trust that you most likely created is a revocable living trust, which is a great tool for avoiding probate and passing assets to your children after you pass. But the problem with a revocable living trust is it does not provide you any asset protection while you're alive. So if you want a trust that's going to keep your money protected while you are alive, you need to set up what's called an asset protection trust. And that can be done in the United States or that can be done offshore. And the fees for those for a domestic trust, a domestic asset protection trust generally are going to run maybe 10, 15 to around $30,000. And offshore trust is going to run somewhere around 25 to $50,000. So it's a very different pricing mod, looking at a structure that's going to actually protect you from lawsuits. And if you're looking for a structure that's going to protect you from lawsuits and work, you're looking at something between 25 and $50,000. My firm charge around $30,000. We give our clients a very good value.
- [06:20]
B
That's awesome. Now you are one of those attorneys that's always on the move. You've established like the biggest, not only the biggest firm, but the biggest brand in the space. How has creating a brand really catapulted your, your business?
- [06:36]
A
You know, it's very interesting and I was thinking about this as I Was flying out from Miami to LA last night. Years ago, when I got into the industry, I started traveling. And because of the traveling, I grew a large client base. Last year, I was told we set the record by one particular trust company for the most number of Cook Islands Trust registered in their 40 year history. And, and because of my travels and sharing this on social media, it has grown a large client base. The large client base has then given us a lot of experience and it has allowed me to build a team all over the world where we've got people who can answer phone calls and respond. Much more so than a team that's based all here in the United States. Can you repeat the question one more time? Make sure I hit it right.
- [07:21]
B
So. I know, but it's more, you know, right now you, you, you're traveling all over the world, but you have such a big brand in this space. Like on social, you got millions of followers. Social media, how is that, how has that elevated your business?
- [07:33]
A
Hundreds of thousands of followers, but there have been videos with millions of views and yes, it's been great for the business in a lot of ways. Not, I mean, certainly attracting clients. We are very narrow focused. Our firm doesn't do DUIs and divorces and car accidents. We are very hyper laser. We're hyper laser focused in this, in this industry. It's also meant that other people in the industry have reached out to me. International trust attorneys, trust companies, protectors from different places in the world have reached out to our firm and it's enabled me to grow what I believe is the largest Rolodex of anybody in the industry. So it's been helpful for finding clients and getting experience that way. On my own, just by traveling to more than 40 countries, I've built up a big network. But the social media presence has also brought other professionals to me. And a big part of the reason clients choose to work with us is because of the network that we have and the ability to say if you need something done relating to asset protection, if our firm can't handle it in house, we're one phone call away from the person who can.
- [08:36]
B
I love that. So your network's really like insane now. Actually, you and I were talking about that before the show. It's like, you know, podcasting, doing the social media dominating kind like your Internet presence really just opens your mind up. You're the first attorney I've ever heard or even spoke to says, you know, like it opens your mind up to a whole new way of thinking as an entrepreneur, as a Visionary, which is
- [08:59]
A
so important as an entrepreneur. Now, what I'm about to say doesn't apply to you or anybody listening or watching the podcast, but the majority of Americans are very narrow minded on how they think. Most have never left America. Those who have, most have not gone beyond Canada or Mexico. But the entrepreneurs who are going to be the most successful in the decades to come think globally for the solutions to their problems. And that's very much what we do. We bring global solutions to problems that are here in the United States. Rights.
- [09:25]
B
And that's something that's missing. I've never spoke to an attorney to give me a global solution. You know, they always think just here, but you know, like, we're really not protected with the laws here. You know, you still open yourself up. Yeah, we can bob and weave and somehow negotiate, but like, are we fully protected? It's not like a full protection strategy.
- [09:46]
A
Absolutely not. Under Article 4, Section 1 of the U. S. Constitution, every state has to give full faith and credit to the judgments of every other state. So you've set up a great asset protection plan this state, but you could sue it in another state. It's possible that judgment could be enforced here. You don't have to worry about that when you go overseas because by law, the Cook Islands will disregard a court order from anywhere in the world other than the Cook Islands.
- [10:08]
B
Unbelievable. Now how do you reconcile like the traditional confidentiality of legal services with the transparency demanded by platforms like TikTok or Instagram or whatever?
- [10:20]
A
Sure. So I talk a lot about war stories and client success stories on social media, but we never do this in any way that compromises clients protected information. We'll use different names, we'll tweak certain facts so that we don't reveal anything that could compromise the client's privacy. However, I do draw on my, my team's years of experience and seeing cases and how they played out and share that with the public so we can educate them. This is my job. I am interested in growing my business, but I'm passionate about what I do and I believe in it. Because freedom, which is the most important thing that all of us want and desire in our life, Freedom does not exist without protection. If somebody can take away everything you have, you're not really free until you've taken action to keep yourself and your family's wealth protected. You don't really have any freedom and
- [11:07]
B
you don't really think about it like that. You know, it's. And it's so true.
- [11:11]
A
And there's a lot of Very successful entrepreneurs out there who built these great businesses, but they've been so laser focused on building their business, they haven't thought about the big picture of what happens if I do get sued.
- [11:23]
B
Now, your firm, you guys literally specialize in offshore trusts like in the Cook Islands and in the navies, Right. How do you address concerns about the ethical implications of offshore asset protection? Because that's such a taboo subject, right?
- [11:40]
A
Totally. And it goes back to what I was saying about Americans being very narrow minded. If you start a business, Joseph, the first thing someone's going to say to you is go register an llc. If you assets start to grow, someone's going to say, well, why don't you set up a trust for your family? And then someone says, oh, your assets have hit $2 million. Why don't you set up an offshore trust? All of a sudden that doesn't seem right. No, I don't buy this belief that being weak and unprotected is honorable. I think just the opposite. Good people, they do everything they can to make themselves as strong and as protected as possible. You can, you can't stand up to evil if you are vulnerable. And I think that using the tools available to keep yourself protected is one of the most ethical things you can do.
- [12:25]
B
And that people don't look at it like that. They go, oh, offshore. Some do, yeah.
- [12:29]
A
We've got a growing client base. Who, who does? There's other people setting up the trust. You do, but a lot of people, they hear offshore and immediately think this is going to be a numbered account in Switzerland. And if we're hiding the irs, and it's just the opposite, everything we do, we report to the irs. We give clients on how to complete the reporting requirements. But no, there's nothing illegal and it's far from unethical.
- [12:49]
B
And it's not like they're, they're bank accounts or anything. And this is just an asset protection strategy overseas.
- [12:56]
A
Well, it does involve open a foreign bank account. So the trust typically is registered in the Cook Islands. So we have set up trust in other jurisdictions like Nevis, and we do business in Belize as well and other offshore jurisdictions beyond those three jurisdictions. But once the trust is registered, we then help clients open a bank account. And usually we'll help them open a bank account in Switzerland. So the trust would be registered in the Cook Islands, the safest jurisdiction for an asset protection trust. And then the money will be held in Switzerland, which is the safest place that Americans can routinely open a bank account under the structure they can Invest in stocks, bonds, gold, silver, cryptocurrency. Anything they can invest in themselves, they can invest in through the trust. So we open both the bank account and the trust offshore, and that's where they get the real estate protection.
- [13:40]
B
Let me ask you, are there tax benefits to opening an account in Switzerland?
- [13:45]
A
I wish. The trust itself is tax neutral. It does not increase tax liability. It does not decrease. Putting assets in, taking assets out. Always tax neutral assets can be transferred over in kind. You don't have to liquidate your portfolio. You don't have to realize any gains when you put them into the trust. Only if you were to sell them the trust.
- [14:03]
B
So it's the same tax implications?
- [14:05]
A
Same exact tax implications. It does have to be reported to the IRS and FinCEN. And we give our clients a detailed memorandum on how to complete those reporting
- [14:12]
B
requirements, and then they just hand that to their accountant and their accountants.
- [14:16]
A
Cpa. CPA does their magic with the paperwork, client signs off, and it does not increase your chance of an audit either. The IRS sees reporting your offshore trust as an act of compliance, and in no way does that raise any red flag or penalize an individual.
- [14:30]
B
Yeah, because I could see how that's a concern, because the IRS is like, well, let me see the rest of the. But you're already reporting everything that's in that account.
- [14:37]
A
Correct. And the IRS likes to see that you're reporting and likes to see that you're complying. And the IRS has plenty of people to go after who aren't even filing their taxes or aren't even paying their taxes. Now, it's a complex issue for the irs, and the IRS is very well trained at going after simple matters. But the more complex it is, actually, the less likely it is the IRS has the brain power to go after.
- [14:59]
B
Now, you know, obviously, as a lawyer, every lawyer has to pick their niche. What was that pivotal moment that when you realize that you want to just basically go all in on asset protection?
- [15:10]
A
So I've been an attorney for about 15 years. I've always focused my legal career on trust. It was early in my career. I had done other types of trust, domestic trust, the revocable trust that you mentioned. But it was many years ago, after I'd set up an asset protection trust. A client came back to me a few years later, and I was talking to them and various family members along the way. The case finally went away, and I got a call from an individual who they hired us several years earlier. And I remember the exact words, blake, the trust worked exactly as you Said it would. We were able to keep all of our money. They didn't even have to pay a settlement. They were able to keep all of it because of the trust. And when I heard that, I said, you know what? This is the type of feedback I want to hear. I'm not going to do anything for the rest of my career. I. Other than go exclusively after setting up offshore trust, and for several years now, we've done nothing but set up offshore trust.
- [16:09]
B
Now to that point, I'd like to ask for, like, the best story. Do you have a good story that really comes to mind where you're like, I just saved this guy $1 billion.
- [16:17]
A
So we had a client who sold a business. We'll say it's a trucking business. He'd spent 20 years building this business up. And then after he sold the business, he got a fee of around $12 million. Put that money into a Cook Islands trust many months later. A few months later, the business started tanking. The new owner didn't understand how to operate the business quite as well as my client, who'd built the business from scratch. The new owner tried to undo the transaction, sued our client for $12 million. This was going to leave our client in debt because the client had already sent some of that money to the irs. Once we revealed that the client had all their funds inside of a Cook Islands trust, and the plaintiff likely was going to get nothing if they proceeded with their case, the plaintiff agreed to settle the case for somewhere around $150,000, pennies on the dollar. I don't know how the case would have turned out if they did not have the Cook Islands Trust in place, but I highly doubt it would have looked anything like the result. We got them.
- [17:15]
B
Well, let's say that $12 million was in a revocable trust here in the U.S. i mean, can they have pierced that trust?
- [17:23]
A
Easily. A court could have ordered the client to revoke the trust and hand over the assets. The with the revocable trust, typically the client's in charge. Even if the client's not in charge, the court will read the document and say, the assets, the trust is revocable. Revoke it and pay your debts on top of that. If the assets were in the United States, even if it was an irrevocable trust in the United States, the court could have still gone after that asset as long as it sits here in the U.S. so if you want real protection, you do two things. You get the control offshore, and you get the asset offshore. And at that Time, you're golden.
- [17:53]
B
You know, like, I love hearing success stories because at the end of the day, this is what we're passionate about. This is what excites us. And if we don't live a life of purpose, like, what's the point, right?
- [18:03]
A
We don't live a life of purpose in a life with peace of mind too. Simply going through a lawsuit is going to be expensive. It's going to be stressful. It's going to bring some hard times maybe into your biz. It's going to, into your personal life. It's going to distract you from running your business, being able to settle a case quickly and move on. There's a lot of value in that, of course.
- [18:25]
B
Well, I mean, I run a big business, so lawsuits are just part of the business. We have stacks of them. That's why we have in house counsel. I mean, so for me, I'm just used to losses. But when it hits me personally that I'm not used to like the business, like, because we operate a massive one, it's no big deal. Losses are just part of the game, personally. Like, they're terrifying.
- [18:43]
A
It's, it's, it's not fun. And what I see happen sometimes is individuals get hit with these completely bogus claims. But the individuals are wealthy and they're busy and they see how much it costs to defend a claim, that they end up just paying settlements as opposed to spending the time, money and effort and resources to defend a case. And individuals become victims of legal extortion. And I don't want that to happen to me. And I'm certainly don't want that happen to any of my clients.
- [19:12]
B
Now pivoting a little bit now, you're kind of a big deal online, you're quoted in tons of publications now. How do you ensure that your public Persona aligns with the serious nature of what you do for work?
- [19:26]
A
So what I do for work, I take very seriously. I'm very careful with who we hire and how we train them. But I also, in both my personal and professional life, don't consider myself a very stuffy person. I am very laid back in how I communicate with clients because that's who I am. Also, it gives clients a lot of confidence. When I started in the practice of law 15 years ago, I was wearing a suit and tie every day because I didn't know what I was talking about and I needed to compensate. As I got more comfortable with what I was saying, I've become more comfortable in how I dress. And it's very Disarming. And clients are much more willing to open up and share with me. And I want that because that communication is very key to successful outcome, and it gives clients more peace of mind, too. So, uh, while we take our work very seriously, while we only work with the most reputable, while our team is very responsive, and I say all these great things about my firm, you can go online yourself and read our reviews. We have over 70 Google reviews. Every single one to five out of five stars. We do take it very seriously, but at the same time, we want to be approachable. We don't want clients to feel intimidated when they talk to me or anyone on our team.
- [20:34]
B
I love that. It's all about delivering an incredible customer experience.
- [20:38]
A
An incredible customer experience where they are comfortable from the first time they contact us until the relationship ends, whether that's months, years, or decades later.
- [20:48]
B
So, like, the process of getting asset protection, you walk these guys through, it's not. And it takes several weeks to set something up. Right.
- [20:57]
A
So usually clients will fill out a contact form on our website or they'll give us a call. You'll then have a call scheduled with one of the attorneys at our firm. We will then do an evaluation to see whether you'd be a good fit for an asset protection plan with our firm. A lot of people contact us and we tell them that we're not the right fit or we send them in some other direction. But for those who do fit the criteria and we think a Cook Islands or an offshore trust of some type would be beneficial, we'll then send them all the information needed to get started. The initial fee is around $30,000. Once they've signed our engagement letter and submitted the initial fee, it takes about 30 days to get the trust established. Now, if clients are being very responsive, they have a fairly clean background, we can expedite that process. Once that's done, then we start the process of moving assets into the trust. That typically takes around 30 days to move the assets in, as well as get a bank account open. So all in about 60 days is what we quote clients. Though in some circumstances, we have gotten everything set up a bit quicker than that.
- [21:55]
B
Now, on title and everything, you move all the properties into an offshore trust. Does it say like, this is a Switzerland trust on the title?
- [22:02]
A
And so the primary home will go directly into the trust, unless you're in a state like Florida or California, where your home is. I'm sorry, Florida or Texas, where your home's already protected, or your home is already covered by homestead protection. Minus any debt. We will then put the home directly into the trust if there's any unprotected equity in the home. Other real estate should typically be held by an LLC registered in the state and the jurisdiction where the property is located. Then the LLC will go into the trust, and then a bank account will be opened directly into the name of the trust. So either the assets will go directly into the trust trust or go into an entity which the trust then owns.
- [22:40]
B
Now, your firm officers, your firm offers services like crypto asset protection, which is obviously the biggest emerging market right now. How do you navigate the rapidly evolving regulatory landscape of these digital assets? Like, it's like insanely regulated right now.
- [22:59]
A
So it is a changing, it is a changing landscape. And finding partners who are willing to hold crypto is something that we have put a lot of effort into at my firm. And meeting with the banks, custodians of crypto is something that we've made a lot of effort to. And I don't think any other asset protection law firm has done as much crypto asset protection as my firm. I venture to say we've probably done more crypto asset protection than everyone else in the industry combined. We give clients a few options for how they hold their crypto. If there's no pending litigation, we will assign the crypto to the trust and allow the client to keep the keys. If there is pending or threaten litigation, we'll have the client to use a third party that could be a third party vault, that could be a family member or friend, preferably outside the United States, or with one of our banking relationships in Switzerland or Liechtenstein, that will hold the crypto through their, through their bank. So there's a few different ways clients can hold it, but ultimately it's still taxed the same way it would be taxed if you have the crypto, your crypto yourself. It's a market that the demand for it swings with the crypto market. When bitcoin goes on bull run, we get a lot more crypto calls. When bitcoin's tanking, we still have clients who crypto is a portion of the portfolio, but it just varies. But we are very well positioned to be the leading crypto asset protection law firm.
- [24:17]
B
Wow. I mean, that's great to, great to know, great to hear. And as you know, even myself, as I get more involved in the crypto space, like, and I have so many questions about even, like the company, like, as a corporation, our corporation, you know, who's always just, you're being attacked left, right, and center. Just the bigger we are, the more market share we get, the bigger our national platform gets, the more targets on our back.
- [24:44]
A
The larger an empire grows, the more vulnerable it becomes to attack. Certainly, yeah, like I said at the beginning, a lawsuit is a bad success. If you've been successful enough, you can expect to be sued, still grow, still become a sex. As successful as possible, but have the proper defense in place.
- [25:01]
B
I always refer to King David where he would say, lord, why do all my enemies multiply? Like, like, why. Why is this happening to me? Like, why do those who afflict me keep multiplying? It's just like, out of nowhere. And what's like. So for a corporation is asset protection. You're like, this is the way to go.
- [25:23]
A
So typically, when we set up an offshore trust, it's either for an individual or for a married couple. Now, often that individual owns or has a large investment in a business. And our strategy for protecting a business is one of the following. You can put the business directly into the trust, or you can take as much out of that business as possible. So operate the business as thinly capitalized as possible. And then once you pull the assets out of the business, put that into your offshore trust. If the business has hard assets, we'd recommend taking the hard assets out of the business, selling them, maybe leasing them back from a third party. So the business doesn't have a lot for somebody to take. Take a poison pill, so to speak. Put as much cash into the offshore trust, and all of a sudden, when the business has very little cash on hand, it becomes less appetizing to sue. And again, if the business gets sued, this gives the business leverage to negotiate and say, well, we don't have a lot of cash on hand for anyone to take.
- [26:19]
B
So deplete the cash on hand, Deplete
- [26:22]
A
the cash on hand, remove hard assets, and make it as thinly capitalized as possible. Run your business lean and mean.
- [26:28]
B
Yeah, unfortunately, because we're a bank, we can't really do that.
- [26:32]
A
You would need to keep a little bit more cash on hand.
- [26:34]
B
Yeah, we have to keep millions on hand cash.
- [26:36]
A
So in your circumstances, it actually might be a situation where setting up a Cook Islands trust directly for the business makes sense. So you can keep the bulk of the cash in an account offshore that a court can't force you to pull up back from. We would need to maybe offline, have a little bit more of a discussion how often and how much cash you need on hand and how much you could stick away for six months at A time you always have access to it. You don't have to wait six months at a time. But if you're going to be accessing it within the next 30 days, it doesn't necessarily make sense to put it offshore.
- [27:07]
B
And just out of curiosity, those offshore accounts, like bank accounts here, they're paying 4 or 5%, they're not paying much over there, are they?
- [27:13]
A
It depends on how you invest the money if you are holding it in. It depends on what current which currency you use, whether it's the Swiss franc or the US dollar or the euro. And beyond that, you can buy CDs or bond or T bills or invest in crypto stocks, bonds. So just depending on how much risk you want to take on, you can get whatever, aim for whatever return you want.
- [27:33]
B
Okay, so still same same thing as
- [27:36]
A
all of the same investment options you have now, you'll have in the trust as well.
- [27:39]
B
Okay, now you wrote a book, it's called Asset Protection. Don't Let a Lawsuit Take Everything. Now that offers tons of strategies guarding it, you know, guarding your wealth. What's a common misconception that, that readers have after reading it? Like what, what do you, what have
- [27:57]
A
you heard after reading it? They don't have any misconceptions yet, but before reading it, I think some of the misconceptions go back to number one, the wealth needed to justify setting up an offshore trust. If you've got an individual worth $300 million and they get hit with a five million dollar judgment, it's not really going to have any real effect on their standard of living or quality of life. But if there's an individual worth $3.5 million and they're hit with a five million dollar judgment, that could have devastating effects on their standard of living and quality of life. So first of all, misconception is that an individual is not wealthy enough. If you're a millionaire, you should definitely at least consider looking to setting up an asset protection trust. The other big mistake, and I sometimes wonder, even having a book causes more people to make this mistake is putting it off. If you set up the asset protection plan while waters are calm, I can get you a very good result. If you wait until you've been sued, we may be able to do something to mitigate damage. But the result that you are going to get is not nearly as good as the one who plans ahead. An ounce of prevention is worth the pound of the cure.
- [29:02]
B
Now one thing I love about you is setting. You've you always talk about the global network now, how do you vet these international partners, and how do you ensure they uphold the standards that, you know, I'm looking for, that you're looking for, that the firm's looking for.
- [29:20]
A
So there's a couple ways that I vet. I get out in the field and I meet people in person. I'm flying tomorrow morning to Hong Kong to meet with some colleagues there and speak at a conference there. I've been to the Cook Islands many times, and as I mentioned, I've been to dozens of different countries and I travel extensively because there's a big element of how do you feel about a person when you meet them in person? That energy of meeting somebody in person, that's one thing that is very important to me. What does my gut say? And I'm a big believer in trusting your gut. Number two, their industry reputation. The more people you know in the industry, the more. The easier it is to get feedback on someone else, see how others have perceived working with this individual. That's very important one. And then the third is how responsive are they? My firm, we're extremely responsive. I'm on my email more than I want to admit. And finding people in some of these smaller island countries who are responsive sometimes can be challenging. Sometimes you get a little bit of island time where they're a little bit slower to respond. And if they don't respond quick enough, then we're not going to work with them. We're going to work with somebody who operates at appropriate speed. So it's three things. It's the gut feeling when you meet somebody in person. It's their overall reputation from people who I trust in the industry, and it is their response time.
- [30:42]
B
Now, looking ahead, what do you think are some unconventional strategies you're exploring to keep the law firm alive and at the forefront of asset protection?
- [30:53]
A
Well, we are always looking to grow. And what I'm looking to grow more so is vertically. I'm looking to see how we can find trust companies who will mold their process to fit our firm's process so that when clients hire us, we can streamline the onboarding process. And I'm doing the same thing where after I go to Hong Kong, a few days later, I'm going to Zurich and meeting with some of the banks we work there and going to be talking about how they can simplify their onboarding process as well. What I want to deliver for my clients is not only the best value. And when I meet with our international partners, I'm negotiating, I'm trying to get a better deal for My clients. I'm also trying to get a smoother and quicker process long term. My vision is going to be so is such that a client hires us, they submit one intake form. We run this through our law firm, we run this through the bank, we run this through the trust company. And faster than it does can take some people to draw up a revocable trust. We're able to set up an offshore trust. I believe we can already do it probably quicker than anyone else in the industry because the quantity of work we do with these trust companies, they will often push our clients ahead of other clients, but also getting it so that the banks are on board. So as far as what are we doing that's unconventional? We are partnering and digging deep into the processes of our various offshore partners to streamline the process for our clients.
- [32:19]
B
I love that. Now pivoting the show a little bit. We're going to talk about the family now. You got two beautiful children and you
- [32:26]
A
know, the third one's not so cute. No, just two children total.
- [32:31]
B
And you know, you, your, your kids are growing up in a much more fortunate environment. How are you making sure that your kids grow up with that same resilience, that same level of grit that you've instilled in your life?
- [32:49]
A
So I was raised by a father who was an attorney and had his own practice. And it was very much a inspiration and a model. And I feel like I'm doing a lot the same for my children where they see dad works a lot. Dad takes time off to be on one on one with his children and give them, give him his undivided attention. But they understand that dad has to travel because dad's going to go out and do the best thing he can for himself and his career because that pays dividends to the family. So I think what's very important is being a good role model. Beyond that, I do like to, to the point that my children show an interest, expose them to the team that I work with. I have taken them to Switzerland. They've met with some of the bankers we work with. I taken them the past few summers to Nevis and we have a great time there as, as well. And when we travel, I very much put it on my children to figure out how we are going to get from point A to point B. So we show up at the airport and I say to the kids, where do we go from here? Well, what, what airline are on? What flight are we on? They figured out, they figured out how to get us through security. They figure out how to get us onto the plane. And I just let them kind of lead the way because I want them to get comfortable figuring out things on their own. And, and it's been, and it's been wonderful. And I encourage everyone who's listening to this, if you're on the fence, go out and have children. Children are a wonderful thing. They take time, they take money. But there's no better place to spend your time and money than on your children. Yeah, I've had no regrets about, about having children.
- [34:22]
B
Best thing that ever happened to me for sure.
- [34:24]
A
For sure.
- [34:25]
B
That's why I want like 20, but you know, I could only afford four so far.
- [34:29]
A
That's, that, that's, that's, that's. You're, you're ahead of a lot of people there.
- [34:33]
B
Now a couple last questions. This, this is about goals. Three prong question. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself, a goal that you have for your business, and a goal that you have for your family?
- [34:46]
A
Okay, well, I will start with my family. I would say that I want to make sure that as my children are entering their teenage years, that I continue to have the open relationship with my children where they are comfortable communicating with me. Those teenage years get tough for a variety of different reasons, and I want my children to still be very comfortable communicating with me honestly about their fears, about their excitement, about what they're excited about. Maintaining that relationship with my children is going to be very important. And so far I think I've done a very good job at that. I feel like I have a very good relationship with both them and I'd like that to not change as far as the business is concerned. We have worked very hard to maintain the reputation that we have in the industry and I would like to very much preserve that. We have a team of about 12 or 15 full time employees right now. I don't look at that as a metric that I'm necessarily trying to grow. I'm much more interested in growing the number of clients we can serve and how well we serve them. A byproduct of that would be a growing team. But right now we have a team that I'm very proud of. We've got some very smart, very talented, very detail oriented, very hardworking, and I would like to see the team grow where we don't compromise the level of excellence that we have. And I could spend a whole another 45 minutes talking about how we employ a former trust officer from a Cook Islands and Nevis Trust company, how we employ what I think are some of the smartest people in the asset protection field. How we have extremely well trained support staff as well. So I'd like to really stay on course. I mean, I would like to grow the business too, but I'd like to stay on course and continue to maintain the brand. When people think of Blake Harris Law, I want the first thing that comes to their mind beyond offshore asset protection to be integrity. When we say we're going to do something, we're going to do it. I'm not saying that mistakes don't get made. The mistakes are exceedingly rare. But I'm saying that our word is golden as far as personal, personal goals. I turn 40 here in a few months. I'm quite happy with the life I live. I have a lot of travel, I've got a lot of friends. I'm in the best physical shape I've been. But I would love to see my Muay Thai skills get better. I'm still a beginner of that, maybe a pro when it comes to asset protection, but I still suck when it comes to my fighting skills. And I'd like to see myself get, get, get better in that regard and
- [37:31]
B
maybe compete or something.
- [37:33]
A
Maybe, maybe. Once the blessing of my coach come. Once I get the blessing of my, of my coach, then, then I'll do that.
- [37:40]
B
But the next Van Dam, I'd like
- [37:42]
A
to avoid any, any, any injuries and continue to have fun. Continue to have fun in, in what I'm doing with work and continue to enjoy the people I work.
- [37:52]
B
You're doing it. Podcasting, traveling, social media.
- [37:56]
A
I'm do. I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm doing it. I mean, there was. It's been a lot that's gone on the last 39 years, between schooling and college and law school and a marriage and a divorce and unpaid internships. When I was younger and not working for the right people at different time. I mean, I was working for the right people because it got me to where I am now and made me appreciate it now. But now I'm at a point where the energy is flowing well and I'm having fun, and I feel like I'm surrounded by a very loyal team, both in terms of my friends, but also in terms of the team I work with at Blake Harris Law. And I want to keep. I want to keep going.
- [38:33]
B
Last question. Ask everybody this question when you're in front of the pearly gates. What do you think God's going to tell you?
- [38:41]
A
Do you think God's going to tell me that I have left behind wonderful children who will continue to spread God's love for all of humanity after I'm gone.
- [38:55]
B
I love that. Blake Harris, people want to find you. How do they do it?
- [38:59]
A
Blakehurst law.com@blakehairslaw is my Instagram, Tick Tock x, Facebook, all the major platforms. Blake Harris Law phone numbers 833-ask- Blake, which is blakehurst law.com Feel free to DM me on Instagram or shoot me an email. Blake blakehairslaw.com Blake, thank you so much
- [39:18]
B
for coming on the show. Thank you for flying in and doing the show. Thank you. Blake Harris, the man, the myth, the legend. Thank you guys for watching.
- [39:24]
A
Thanks, Joseph.