← Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
Playing the Long Game ft. Mark Lack | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby
00:51:10
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- [00:00]
Marc Lack
He built a multi million dollar brand, made a big exit, and then went all in on bitcoin, tripling his money in just over a year. But for Marc Lack, success isn't just about stacking wealth. It's about playing the long game. From one of the world's best paintball players to one of the top personal branding experts, Mark has spent his life mastering one thing. How to get ahead before the rest of the world catches up. But here's the twist. After selling his company, Mark faced a life changing moment that put everything into perspective. Today we're talking about entrepreneurship, wealth, legacy, and what really matters in the end. Welcome to Coffees.
- [00:48]
Joe
What up, brother? Good to be here, man. Yeah, you know, bringing the energy already.
- [00:51]
Unknown
Yeah, you know, it's a big intro for a young guy. You know, people are like, who is this dude Joe's about to interview?
- [00:57]
Joe
It's nice to be called young because I have a three year old daughter or she'll be three next month, and that makes me feel old.
- [01:02]
Unknown
You know, kids always make you feel old.
- [01:04]
Joe
Yes, indeed.
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Unknown
We got four. We were talking about the kids and, you know, but they bring back your youth and they keep that vitality and keep you grinding for sure. You know, that's that fire that's inside, inside of you. I could feel it.
- [01:16]
Joe
It's the vision we said, you know, pain pushes until the vision pulls. And kids help you get that vision dialed.
- [01:21]
Unknown
Mark, let's get right into it. Big exit and bitcoin, you know, tripled.
- [01:25]
Joe
So it did. And I put it all in there, so it worked out well. And that right there is a huge lesson though, right? Is it's like for me, that was such a paradigm shift that I spent so many years, over a decade working hard to make money and to have the financial freedom and the time freedom that comes with that and the choices you can have for your family. And then I got liquidity that was of a, of a good amount that I was able to then have the conviction and education on bitcoin and its future and put all of the money on Bitcoin at $25,000. And today we just tapped right around 74,000 again. So it's almost 3x in just over a year since I bought in heavy. I had been buying in since 2020, but like I bought in heavy. All the liquidity from that and that mindset was like, whoa, I just made more money in my whole life doing nothing. My money went to work for me. I didn't have to work for my money. That shift of My money is working for me at such an accelerated rate, and I had educated myself on where to put that money. Not some BS Bond or money market fund that's given me five and a half percent, which a lot of my friends were like, my money's all tied up in this. And I was like, dude, you're getting 5%. You know what I mean? Like, I'm up 180%, 200%, 300%. Like, what are you doing? And it was their lack of education reflects their lack of conviction. And for me, I had heard about the proposition that this could be the number one technology in our lifetime and study it every single day relentlessly. Because where else have you heard anything else that could be the number one thing of our lifetime? Have you heard anything?
- [02:58]
Unknown
No.
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Joe
No. Because I would. I want to learn about it.
- [02:59]
Unknown
If we were talking about, like, this is the highest performing asset.
- [03:03]
Joe
We were just at lunch. We were just at lunch talking about this.
- [03:05]
Unknown
Yeah.
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Joe
Ever. Like, when you hear, this is the number one asset and opportunity and technology in our lifetime, bro, Like, a century. This is it.
- [03:17]
Unknown
And me, I think, ever, ever, like.
- [03:20]
Joe
Right there with, like, the Internet. But you couldn't, like, invest in the Internet. You could invest in things built on the Internet, like companies. But, like, this is right there. That's like, if you couldn't have invested in the Internet. And. And for some reason, when people hear that, they don't just immediately go, maybe I should spend some time learning about this. Right? Rather than sound bites off social media or whatever, it's like, dive in. And like, I never heard anybody tell me, like, this is the thing, dude. And so for me, I was like, whoa. And billionaires are saying, this is the thing. And so I was like, whoa, I've never heard anybody talk like that before about a thing and an opportunity. And so I was like, I'm going all in on that, and it's paid off. So for people to understand, it's like, if you find out what that thing is, go all in on it. Take the risk. If you're young enough. There's context here, right? Like, I don't know your situation and whatnot. Not financial advice. Even though telling people to buy Bitcoin, it's commodity, you can tell people to buy it. It's not sec. You don't have to worry about that. I'm not telling you to go buy a stock. I'm telling you to buy a commodity like gold. I can tell people to buy that if I want. So, yeah, but do your research. But I think when you do your research, you come to the inevitable conclusion that anybody does who's put 100 hours or more studying this, it's going to change everything. And that's why it's about to hit all time highs, a new all time high again, again for the election. And it's going to rip forever with volatility in between. But like, zoom out. Real estate theoretically goes up forever. If you buy pristine real estate, it goes up forever. As a reflection of the thing.
- [04:44]
Unknown
All real estate goes up forever anyways. Even.
- [04:45]
Joe
Right. Even if it's not pristine real estate, because bitcoin is pristine. So I'm trying to make the comparison that like, if you buy the best commodity or the best asset or the best real estate, theoretically it should go up forever and usually at a disproportionate rate.
- [04:58]
Unknown
Beach. Beach real estate is just going to go up every year. It's not going to have that volatility.
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Joe
Right.
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Unknown
You're comparing it to like prime beach real estate.
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Joe
But I don't want to turn this into a whole bitcoin podcast because otherwise I will right now.
- [05:08]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, no, we could easily talk about.
- [05:10]
Joe
I can talk about why it's better than everything.
- [05:13]
Unknown
Yeah, Even pristine beach real estate.
- [05:15]
Joe
I know.
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Unknown
We even got about so many reasons. Yeah, but let's. We'll. Because there's so many podcasts and educational platforms just on bitcoin. But we did have a huge day.
- [05:23]
Joe
Today, so still early, because I can already hear the people, you know, is it early? Is it still a good time to get in? Because you asked that at lunch today.
- [05:29]
Unknown
Dude, you know what? I invested in bitcoin and I lost my tail in 2018. And then I invest.
- [05:34]
Joe
But see, had you held it, you'd be up so much. And that's the misconception that people have is you're never down if you hold it long enough. Just like real estate, you're never down if you hold it long enough. And again, most right now, especially because it's at an all time high, no one's down. So technically I could say nobody's down right now if they bought and held because we're at an all time high. So anybody who bought and held at any point in time is theoretically up.
- [05:59]
Unknown
I love the, you know, I love the chatter about bitcoin. I love, I love where it's going and I love that it's continually going up. You know, and for those who are reluctant and we had this long discussion, it's still early.
- [06:12]
Joe
It's still early. All the sailor says it's year one of the 10 year gold rush. And so 2024 was the very beginning of what's going to be 10 years of Bitcoin adoption. Globally, institutions, governments, it'll be in your pension. You'll have it even if you don't know it because it'll be slipped into your pension and your 401k and ETFs and you know, like old people will have it and they don't even know they have it because it's just like what's bitcoin? Yeah, because they're invested in funds that you know, have to have a small allocation to it or they're invested in the S&P 500. And Michael Saylor's MicroStrategy MSTR is about to get added into real quick.
- [06:47]
Unknown
Because I don't want to talk about mstr, but we mentioned it at lunch day and it's such. So people can understand like how MSTR stock MicroStrategy has gone up 1200 percent in one year.
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Joe
It's gone up a lot. We could look at the exact numbers.
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Unknown
12, 1300%. You don't need. You know, all I know is ridiculous amounts. Yeah, a ridiculous amount.
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Joe
Unbelievable.
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Unknown
And the reason why is because he took a unique, the CEO took a very unique strategy. Had Apple or Microsoft done the same strategy.
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Joe
And Microsoft's talking right now and they're.
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Unknown
Board meeting about doing the same December.
- [07:22]
Joe
If they're going to add Bitcoin to their balance sheet instead of just having cash on their, their, you know, reserves, having some bitcoin on, I think that.
- [07:31]
Unknown
That'S probably going to pass. If that passes, that's going to change the landscape for everybody.
- [07:35]
Joe
Because in January of 2025, so a couple months from now the FASB accounting laws change, which shows fair value accounting versus intangible accounting. So companies like Microsoft who hold Bitcoin on their balance sheet can show when bitcoin goes up, they can show it on their quarterly earnings that they had a positive impact on their balance sheet versus right now. You can only show an impairment loss if Bitcoin. You have to show that. You can only show it went down. If bitcoin went down and then it went up, you have to show the down. You can't show that up. So it's just like, and again, I'm not an accounting expert but like that's the gist of it is there was, there's no reason for a big company to hold it on their balance sheet because you could only show losses, not gains. But in January that changes. And MicroStrategy has shown that his stock went from 2 billion to 54 billion in just a few years. 2 billion to 54 billion billion market cap in just a few years. From buying Bitcoin, his stock goes up in proportion at a 3x leverage. So if Bitcoin goes up 10%, his stock goes up 30% and Bitcoin's up like 180% right now. So his stocks, that's just disproportionately up.
- [08:36]
Unknown
Every, every company, when they, when they compare themselves to mstr, probably like kicking themselves in the.
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Joe
Even Nvidia is down compared to Micro strategy. MSTR is up more.
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Unknown
You were talking. MSTR makes Nvidia look like a little runt.
- [08:48]
Joe
Yes.
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Unknown
Their stock there, everyone's like, oh, I.
- [08:50]
Joe
Wish I bought Nvidia. Well, actually, you wish you bought MSTR because it's up even more and it still has a lot more to run because it's only at a 50 billion market cap where Nvidia is at 3.6 trillion. So it's not like Nvidia is going to go up another hundred x, but MSTR is for sure going to go up a lot. That's not financial advice because that's an sec. That's stock.
- [09:10]
Unknown
Well, good. Okay.
- [09:12]
Joe
So yeah, we're not saying to buy anything.
- [09:13]
Unknown
We threw a lot at people really, really quick. But.
- [09:16]
Joe
But these are the plays you got to make, though, because the big thing that people need to understand as we talk about stuff, because, like, this is like macro, like, this dominates all else because we talk about a lot of things, but if the oxygen got sucked out of the room, like, nothing else would really matter except getting oxygen. And so, like, we could talk about a lot of things and it's great, but like, the big thing that everybody has to understand is like the oxygen is being sucked out of the room. And what that means as a metaphor is the government is printing more money than they've ever printed in the last 200 years. And they're printing it at such an accelerated rate because the debt keeps piling up so fast and the interest on the debt keeps piling up so fast that inevitably, if you look at other countries that are much smaller than us, but it happens nonetheless, they get into hyperinflation where they have to print so much money just to survive, that while you're literally eating lunch, like we just went and had lunch, they're erasing the price of the lunch on a whiteboard and writing a more expensive price before you've even finished the Lunch, it costs more. By the time you're finishing the meal, the price has already gone up. That's how fast the inflation's happening now for us, we're like, oh, yeah, the last four years, things cost a lot more since the pandemic. You know what I mean? It's like, things cost more because they printed so many trillions of dollars. We actually, like, really noticed the inflation. Like, my grandma's always like, it used to cost me $2 to go to the gas station, and now it's a hundred. That's inflation over 80, 90 years. But if you look, the government printed more money in the last four years than they did in the last 200. That's a pretty disproportionate accelerated inflation rate. And so the point is, if they keep doing this, it's like the old adage, the penny that doubles every day. Would you rather get a million dollars in cash right now or a penny that doubles every day for 31 days? Most people who haven't heard this before say, I'll take a million in cash right now, because a penny that doubles every day can't possibly be more than a million dollars in 31 days. Because 1 penny, 2 pennies, 4 pennies, 8 pennies, that can't possibly add up to more than a million dollars in 31 days. But crazy enough, on day 31, you have roughly $10 million and pennies, $10 million. And the reason is because those last couple days, it's like $2 million, $4 million, $8 million. It's so rapid at the very end. And that's why there's a bunch of great books out there about hyperinflation. Like Parker Lewis talks about gradually and then suddenly 200 years, and then suddenly, boom, the last four just rips your face off. The last four years of printing is the same as the last 200. That's hard to wrap your head around. So now you extrapolate the last four years over 10, 20 more years at this accelerated rate.
- [11:40]
Unknown
I think we're gonna have this kind of accelerated right now, especially with.
- [11:44]
Joe
Even if it just stays the same.
- [11:47]
Unknown
I'm hoping it.
- [11:47]
Joe
Which it sort of has to. Sort of has to just to pay off. Yeah. If you understand unfunded liabilities and the $1.3 trillion we owe just an interest on the debt. It's crazy, dude. I won't get into it because it'll be a whole different conversation that we can go on. But the point is, the government's printing more money than they've ever printed before. And that's going to make it more difficult for your typical middle class consumer to go and buy things. Rent's going to cost more. Gas and cost more, Foods and cost more. Everything's going to cost more. And the rate at which inflation is going up, the cost of goods, the cost of housing, the cost of things that you want to spend your money on, nobody wants money. They want what it can get you. And so that's why you don't want, like, money from another government. That's like a trillion pesos or whatever, Right? Like, you may not want that. Or a bajillion lira. Like, you may not want that. You want US Dollars. That's why it's the global reserve currency for now. But you don't earn a percentage. Annual income goes up 3% a year. So average person makes 3% more per year. But the inflation rate is much more than that. Like we were talking about, right? Like things that you want to buy, like food. And a house is going up so fast. That's why they're saying, like, millennials won't own houses. Like, it'll be like the most disproportionate home ownership ever. Like, before it was like, every baby mover owns a house.
- [12:57]
Unknown
Yeah.
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Joe
Now it's like, not many of my friends own houses. And they'll never be able to afford in a house because the house keeps going up 10, 20% a year. But their income especially, especially here. But their income goes up 3% a year. But the house goes up 10% a year. How are you ever going to afford it? You can't afford it now. How are you going to ever afford it? My house doubled in four years. Doubled in four years. That's not supposed to happen, dude.
- [13:18]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [13:18]
Joe
So any of my friends who love the neighborhood I lived in, they can't afford it now because it doubled. And their income didn't double in four years. No one's income double.
- [13:27]
Unknown
Yeah. You know, well, yours did. You got that big exit, put it on bitcoin, it tripled.
- [13:31]
Joe
But again, because I invested in something that's going to inflate faster than the rate of the money expansion. You see, this is where it's all going. I can get so rich doing nothing because I bought an asset that goes up faster than the monetary expansion rate. Just like my house doubled, bro. I bought bitcoin at the same time I bought my house. My bitcoin's up like 18x. My house is only up 100%. My bitcoin's up 1,800%. So I probably shouldn't have bought my house. I should have bought more bitcoin. You see my point? So invest in things that go up as a reflection of the monetary expansion rate. The more money they print, the more my house will go up.
- [14:06]
Unknown
You know, while you were talking, it just reminds like everybody knows the classic way to get rich in America is real estate. It was real estate. Real estate. That mantra or that ad was before bitcoin. That was before everyone's now like we will be telling our kids, well invest in bitcoin. Like invest in bitcoin because it's going to keep going up. And this, it will probably be the new standard of wealth.
- [14:28]
Joe
The difference is you can fractionally own it. So somebody could buy $100 worth of bitcoin but you can't buy $100 worth of a house.
- [14:33]
Unknown
Yeah. And one day we'll be talking like I own, like my dad's going to pass me down one bitcoin. You're going to be a millionaire.
- [14:40]
Joe
A whole coiner. And one coin can be fractionalized into 100 million units or satoshis. So you can own 100 million, you know, fractionalized units of one full coin. So it's like pretty cool. Like there's a dollar and then there's 100 pennies. Right? There's a Bitcoin is 100 million satoshis or little units. So being owning one full coin will be a really big deal in the future.
- [15:04]
Unknown
Yeah, it will be.
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Joe
Biggest companies in the world, trillion dollar companies. BlackRock, they're all predicting bitcoin's going to go to millions and millions of dollars for one single bitcoin.
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Unknown
It's unbelievable.
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Joe
So at $73,000 that's a pretty good opportunity right there to go up. And they have a lot of interest in it going to that price and they will personally funnel, funnel, get it to that price.
- [15:25]
Unknown
Yeah, they already are because they're going to just buy it up. What BlackRock's doing with real estate here in the U.S. they're like, let's just buy every property.
- [15:33]
Joe
Exactly.
- [15:34]
Unknown
That we possibly can.
- [15:35]
Joe
Exactly.
- [15:36]
Unknown
But now they're seeing more light bitcoin.
- [15:38]
Joe
What you have to understand is if you have a 9 to 5 job and you're watching this, you will never make enough money to afford the things you want in life. Unless you're just a really Rare decimal of 1% high earner who's in sales or some performance based job where your income is not a reflection of your time. Nine to Five, but it's a reflection of your output. So in sales you get paid commission based on closing a result a sale, Right? So not many people though work in a performance based job where their income's attached to their performance. Most people get paid just to show up and they get paid for their punch in the clock. Right? And so those people who get paid to punch the clock will eventually probably have some form of universal basic income or not end up living the life that they're really capable of. And it's not their fault, it's the government is printing more money than they ever have in any generation before us. And so that's why like my grandparents owned multiple houses and a motorhome and a boat and it was like that's what everybody did back then, right? You had a house and a motorhome and a boat back way back then, Right. And then my parents like easily owned a house. And baby boomers, right? Baby boomers have like $75 trillion in assets. Crazy. But millennials and Gen Z and the ones younger than that, it's going to be tough. They have to compete against AI taking their jobs and they have to compete against the fact that everything's going to cost so much that and companies can't afford to pay them at the rate of which the government's devaluing everything. So like, if all of a sudden, like my house doubles again in four years, again, it doubles in four more years, dude, no one's gonna be able to afford that because their income didn't double and then double. It's like, so those people's income happening.
- [17:12]
Unknown
It'S just like what's happening in Tokyo, it's happening in, if you look in.
- [17:16]
Joe
History, it pretty much always happens. It's the reason why empires collapse is because at some point there's been enough war and enough, you know, pandemics and enough reasons that the government can justify printing trillions of dollars to save the country. And at this point, they either have to let it collapse, which is why the people oh, it's going to collapse. It's the worst recession ever. The banks have more outstanding debt than by 700% than they did in 08. Like the stats are crazy for why we should have a recession, but it's called a reverse market crash. The government can't let it crash because if they do, it'll be so bad of a crash, it'll be like Great Depression bad, like worse than 0708, like you're talking back to the 1920s bad, like a Great Depression Bad, like, because we have so much more debt. Like, there wasn't that much debt back then. Like, if you think about how much debt we have, like, it's just so much worse. And so they can't let it collapse. And so what happens? They just keep printing money. It's almost just like they. If they let it collapse, America's done. So they can't afford for that to happen. So regardless of who's in office, they don't want to be the president that went down with America. So they have to print more money. And again, tying this back to businesses and why I sold my company was because I knew that I couldn't make enough money every year to keep growing to offset the rate of which the government was going to screw me. The government was going to make my house double in the next four or five more years, just like it did the last four years. And I knew that I wasn't going to earn enough money in my business to offset that delta of, wow, they're really screwing me. They're making everything cost more. And when I want to buy that $10 million house, it's gonna be that much harder for me. You know what I mean? So I sold my business, and I put all the money I basically reached into the future and grabbed three years of net cash, and I got all of it in one day. And then I put all of it on bitcoin because I knew what's the asset that's gonna go up at a disproportional asymmetrical rate that's gonna go up so much higher than the money they're printing. Just like my house doubled in four years, but my Bitcoin went up 18 times those four years, man. So I knew that what I just did was I just basically went out and I grabbed, like, 10 years of cash, I got three years from my business, put on bitcoin, and bitcoin has now basically tripled since I bought it. So that's three times three. So I basically got reached into the future. I got nine years of net cash all in one year. And bitcoin's gonna double again. And it's gonna double again. It's gonna double again. It's gonna double again. And I'll have made the best trade slash investment slash bet of my life, selling my company at the perfect time in 2023. Going all in on Bitcoin in 2024 and see you later. Bitcoin's just gonna. It's gonna go all the way up. It's gonna have Volatility in between. But like, if I hold it for 10 years, you'll see me and bitcoin will be at a million, $2 million. And you'll be like, you still holding? And I'll be like, yes.
- [19:59]
Unknown
So I wanna, I wanna talk about, you know, your entry into entrepreneurship and how it all kind of started with becoming one of the world's best paintballers. So how was that journey going from one of the world's best paintballers to becoming like one of the top entrepreneurs?
- [20:15]
Joe
I'll give you the fast, cause now you're. Now I feel old cause it's so long ago, but I'll fly through the bullet points for you and you can choose to dive into whatever chapter you want. So, didn't like school, didn't resonate with me, didn't like the stuff I was being taught, Started to resent education. Because if someone's just trying to feed you a bunch of BS and you're like, dude, this is not. I don't really give a shit about. Are we able to cuss on here? I don't really give a shit about any of this information you're teaching me. And I started to get smart enough where I would ask, what am I ever gonna use this for, right? Like, when am I ever gonna use. Why am I having to give up so many years of my life to learn this information? And the teachers didn't give me good enough reason. Didn't like, if somebody, it's almost like a business. Like if somebody's like, well, why do I need to do date enrichment? I'm like, dude, let me tell you. And then they're like, whoa, that was a really good reason. But if I tell you I'm giving my time and my money to come to this school to get an education and you can't tell me why a good enough reason why I'm even gonna need this education. Leaving, this is a business. I'm paying you for a service. And if you can't tell me why I need it, I'm leaving. I'm going somewhere else. And so I started to self educate myself with people like Tony Robbins and John Asaroff and old school Brian Tracy and Jim Rohn and all the personal development and then marketing and sales and came to realize self education was going to be my route. Not formal traditional education that most people go through. Get a degree, go beg somebody to hire you, get a job that has a fixed income that's now lower than the rate of inflation and you're just slowly Going poor. So I realized self education was my route. I got super invested into sales and marketing because I was like, I want to get rich. Everybody thinks I'm the stupid kid who doesn't do well in school, so I want to prove them wrong, which is the pain pushes, right? Pain pushed me like Michael Jordan was the last guy picked on the team. And he was like, no, I'm going to be the best. And so everyone's like, you're stupid, bro. You don't do well in school. And I was like, dude, I'm not stupid. I just think this information we're learning is pointless, and I don't need to waste my time on it. What's the point of getting an A? And guess what I mean, literally, my entire class doesn't make as much as I do. You know what I mean? It's like, take all the kids that were in my class. None of them all combined together. Even if there's one superstar guaranteed they don't make what I do. All of them combined. And I don't say that in a bragging way. It's just the facts, because I'm still friends with a lot of my friends from college who went to the fancy schools, and some of them actually are employees of my company. Like, it's just funny how it shifts, right? It's like formal education gets you a job. Self education can give you the life that you want, whatever that looks like for you, because you choose school, you don't choose. They hand you a textbook. I was like, no, I want to. I want to choose what I'm gonna learn based on what outcomes I want. And so for me, I would ditch school and I would go listen to audiobooks and read books from Jay Abraham and Tony Robbins. And I mean, if you've. I don't know that we have. We haven't done a zoom yet. But at my house, my home office, I have a big bookshelf behind me of, like, a thousand books, and I've read most of them. That was when I was, like, full tilt, like, college to, you know, before kids just reading. Like, my goal was to try to be like Tai Lopez. A book a week, you know, and it was like, I would just go through so many books, just, like, obsessed, because I saw the reflection. Better education would give me knowledge to take action, and that would make me more money. And as soon as I attached more money, which meant choices, freedom, better life, everything to what I learned, I was like, oh, my God. Inside these pages is money. Inside these pages is gold. I Have to find it. And I'd look at the books as like a game, because I like games. And I would open the book and I'd be like, I got to find the next gold thing that's going to give me that. And the more books you read, the better you get at connecting dots. You know, like we're talking and it's like, dude, you see the connections between this and this and this, and you need a lot of information to be able to connect the dots. Just like, if you and like talk to like some random person on the street who works at Chipotle, they probably wouldn't be able to connect a lot of dots. Regarding, like, you know, the government's gonna print enough money that causes inflation. It's gonna make things go up. I gotta find the right assets. They're not thinking about connecting. They just go, dude, things cost more. And it's like, dude, you didn't connect the dots. Like, you see what I'm saying? Lack of education. And so what I realized was like, the more education I can get, the more I could connect dots. And so then I started to become obsessed with what is the education that I need to connect the right dots so that I can get filthy rich in the best way possible so I can go out and focus on things in a non transactional way. I don't think people, I don't think God put us on this planet to be slaves to working for money. That's just my belief.
- [24:39]
Unknown
You're absolutely right.
- [24:40]
Joe
Right?
- [24:40]
Unknown
No, he did not. I mean, he put us on this earth to prosper. He put us on this earth to serve.
- [24:45]
Joe
Right? And so I want to, and I am now, but I want to really get to that place where it's like, dude, I don't even ever even think about a transaction. Like, how are we going to do business or make money? Instead I'm just always coming from a place of like, how can I help you? How can I help people? Right? Like just shift full philanthropy mode. And I have like my own dollar amount in my head. Like when I get to this dollar amount, then I can just shift to 100% that. But I'm slowly doing it and slowly doing and slowly doing it because I see that as the vision I want to be like full philanthropy, contribution, education. Like Michael Saylor gives all his education for free like that. Like, I want to go out and solve like global problems and like get behind things and not be like, well, but I got to make rent. But I got to. And I'm already past that. But you get my point. Like, it's hard to, like, what's the number? Mine's a couple hundred million. Because I just believe, like, at a couple hundred million dollars, you can. You're done. You know, you flanthropy goals, like, and you also, like, you also sort of. Maybe it's a limiting belief, but you also sort of need a certain net worth to get in the door with people.
- [25:43]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Joe
Like, Elon Musk's probably not going to, like, you know, be like, hey, let's go conquer things together and solve these big issues together. You don't have any money, so you can be an employee. Or it's like, hey, I'm gonna put 100 million in this project with you. Let's get it done. He's like, oh, you. Okay, okay, you can come to the table now. And so I also believe sometimes you need to have, like, the connections and the money to be able to make the big impacts without just being like, dude, you're just an employee at the charity. No, I fund the charity, and that's what makes it go. And so for me, I just feel like everybody should strive to figure out what that vision looks like for them. And for me, my success now, after I have my data enrichment company, I think that's going to be it for me. I think at that point, with bitcoin and the exit, I'll be able to just focus on philanthropy.
- [26:25]
Unknown
So that's awesome. So that's the goal. Completely full on exit and then just do God's work. Love that.
- [26:32]
Joe
That's perfect summary, huh? Yeah, that's perfect.
- [26:35]
Unknown
I mean. And you know what? Because that is at the forefront of your goal.
- [26:38]
Joe
Yeah.
- [26:39]
Unknown
Like, it's gonna happen.
- [26:40]
Joe
Yeah. Yeah. And the paintball thing was just such a blip in my past, but, like, it taught me, what does it take to be the best? And that mindset of get the best coaches, get the best mentors in paintball. Right? Everything but get the best people are. How did you become the best? It's like, dude, how do you become the best at anything? Get the best mentors, get the best coaches. Learn from the people who've already achieved what you want. You're not guessing. How do I get there? Two already got there. So I would just get the best people who already achieved what I wanted in paintball, like, the best guys. And then I'd have them as my mentors and my coaches. And I didn't just start there. I had to work my way up. Right. I did it for over a decade and that's usually, I think what most people do is they. They underestimate what they can do in a decade and they overestimate what they can do in a year. And so in one year, they're like, I'm going to be the best. And then they're not. Like I thought my first year when I started my company, I was make a million dollars. It took me five years and then it was like, you know, fast. But it was like first five years before I made a million. But I for sure was like 100% guaranteed to my grave, I'm going to make a million dollars for a share. Didn't took five years before I made a million dollars in a single year. And so, yeah, it's the same, same formula, paintball, sports business. Get the best mentors, get the best coaches, and find people who've already done the thing that you want to do. And I think when you ask most people, they don't have. They don't have a clear vision on what they want to achieve in their life. And they don't have a. And because they don't have that, they don't have navigation, they don't have orientation, they don't. They don't know where they're going, so they don't have a coach to get them there.
- [28:11]
Unknown
Now, you're not, you know, you're still in a very volatile business. You start off in a really, I mean, personal brand development, and you exited. Now, first off, I can imagine what people thought of your business when you said, I'm going to just build the brand business. Like, what can you think of?
- [28:30]
Joe
Especially back then, over 10 years ago, it was like no one even. I mean, having now being an influencer and having a personal brand, admit that you were like, you were. It meant that you were broke. Like 10 years ago, if you're like, I'm an influencer. You know, there was no, like, Kardashians or the Paul brothers. There wasn't like, Mr. Beast, right? Like, 10 years ago, he made his first video. Like, that's the point. And he was broke. And now he's like the man. And so it's just like, that's the example. Ten years ago, I was like, I'm gonna do personal branding. And it was definitely like, you're crazy. Early. Yeah, you're crazy.
- [29:02]
Unknown
But you know what? That just speaks to early adoption.
- [29:05]
Joe
Yeah, that could be a common theme. Yeah.
- [29:07]
Unknown
Early adoption now. And this is what your mantra is right now here. It's like, be an early adopter of bitcoin. It's not. It's not. Not too late. Being early adopter of data enrichment. Again, not too. Not too late. Very, very early. We were talking about this. Data enrichment is. Is. It's like a buzzword now, right? It's at that level where it's like, hey, what do you do? I do data enrichment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's trending. Right, but can you think of, like, a pivotal moment or, like, some of the. More of the adversity you face when you started your. Your company, your first company.
- [29:41]
Joe
Oh, man, I told you, it took five years before I made my first million dollars. And some people might be like, you know, man, like, whatever. Like, I would. You know, I've been doing my thing for 10 years and haven't made a million dollars. But that's a whole rabbit hole we can get into, right? Like, you probably don't have a mentor who's already done tens of millions of dollars guiding you, or you're not reading enough books, you're not reading enough education. There's a gap, right?
- [30:01]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [30:02]
Joe
Or you're just totally in the wrong industry. You're selling the wrong thing. You need to be selling the hot thing that everybody wants right now. You know what I mean? Like, you're in the debt enrichment. You're in the desert and you're selling bread. Everybody wants water, bro. You know what I mean? Like, I don't care. It's like, no one wants a dry mouth. Like a spoonful of cinnamon in the desert. Like, you know, you're like, I want water. And so some businesses, I, because I did consulting for, like, 10 years, they're just selling the wrong thing. Like, you're just never gonna be successful trying to push that up the hill. So you just need to pivot. And I think that's a big lesson for a lot of people, is, like, getting into the right space. But, dude, I mean, the failures and lessons from, like, my first couple years, like, I pivoted. The first three years, I was trying to do, like, personal development. I was trying to, like, teach Tony Robbins stuff. You know, I was really trying to, like, get people out. Actually, it was more like two years. I was really trying to teach people because I. I was studying so much Tony Robbins that I was like, I'm very much, as you can tell from my bitcoin talk, in the beginning, when I become obsessed with something, it just, like, consumes me. And I think a lot of successful people have that attribute about them is like, Grant Cardone wrote the book Be Obsessed or be Average, right? Like, average people usually don't have obsessions, you know? And I think people who are great, the best at what they do are usually obsessed. And sometimes, for better or worse, that can trickle down and affect other areas of their life. Right. It's like, I'm so good at this. I'm the best, and I'm so successful. I'm the number one person. But it's affecting other areas of my. Of my life because I'm so obsessed with this. I'm not making time for that, you know?
- [31:36]
Unknown
And that does impact a lot of entrepreneurs, though, a lot.
- [31:39]
Joe
It's a very common theme.
- [31:40]
Unknown
Yeah. And their relationships with their spouses.
- [31:43]
Joe
Of course. Of course. These are the things I'm talking about. Right. Relationships, health, etc. Comes with the switch cost. Right. That doesn't have to. But oftentimes you become so obsessed, so focused on this thing, myopically, you're like, that's it. Everything else can wait. And then you think, oh, if I just am so good at this, then all the other things will take care of itself. And oftentimes it doesn't. But it's not that being obsessed is a good thing or a bad thing. It's just. Everything just is. But when I become obsessed with something like Bitcoin, it just consumes me and I can't not talk about it. And for a very long period of my life, that was consuming Tony Robbins and trying to become the best version of myself, and I would just vomit on people like, dude, Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins. You got to study this stuff. It's the best improve you. And I found out people don't really want that. They don't really want to improve themselves. They don't. They don't like looking in the mirror and being like, I could be better. You know, they don't want to actually improve themselves. Like, if you tell a fat person they're fat, they usually get offended rather than being like, oh, thanks for holding me accountable.
- [32:40]
Unknown
You know, though, like, when you. When you meet people who study Tony Robbins or. And I don't know if you met John Astroff. He's.
- [32:46]
Joe
Of course. John officiated my wedding.
- [32:48]
Unknown
Oh, yeah, He's. I mean, these people are just obsessed with just self improvement. He's still obsessed every single day, of course, with self improvement.
- [32:54]
Joe
It was amazing to have him be a mentor. From books to attending his seminars to having him officiate my wedding.
- [33:00]
Unknown
That's crazy.
- [33:01]
Joe
Yeah.
- [33:01]
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, when he came in here and his morning routine is insane, by the way. He does have one of those.
- [33:06]
Joe
I know, I know. Yeah. But his kids have also moved out of the house, so.
- [33:09]
Unknown
Yeah, it's like a really intense morning routine that's very hard to emulate. But he is obsessed with self improvement. And when I meet. And now that we're in these, you know, entrepreneur circles, that we're part of a mastermind circle, it's like these high performers are absolutely obsessed all day, right. With self improvement. Like, that's all they think about. Morning tonight, dusk till dawn. And when you talk to someone like you or you know, like it, you. You sense it and you feel it, and you feel like you.
- [33:39]
Joe
It.
- [33:39]
Unknown
You feel the sense of inspiration internally. Like, dude, I gotta get better. I'm lagging.
- [33:43]
Joe
Yeah.
- [33:43]
Unknown
You know, like, just me talking with you, like, I'm. I got nine years on you. 43. And like, you know, you're. You're an extreme high performer. And I do. It's inspiring.
- [33:52]
Joe
Thanks, brother.
- [33:53]
Unknown
And it's inspiring to me to. To continue to meet people at that level.
- [33:56]
Joe
It's what I will say, like, that's been a shift for me since last year was. So I sold my company in July and it was like one of the highest highs because I was like, it's happening. God's giving me all the things that I've prayed for. I was like, I need this extra liquidity now to buy into bitcoin before the cycle. Because bitcoin has cycles. And it's all happening. I was like, the prophecy. I was like, it's all happening the way it's supposed to. I get all this money I can put on a bitcoin, and bitcoin's gonna go up forever. And I got in at 25 and here we're at 74. It's gonna just. And I was like, it's all happening. So one of the highest highs, July 2023. Then in August 2023, my mom passed from battling cancer for three years. And that just me up. So I went from the highest high to the lowest low. And I stayed there for like six months. And it was tough because I had to also be a husband and a father.
- [34:51]
Unknown
And you still had, you know, starting your next venture.
- [34:54]
Joe
Exactly. So I kind of went into like a six month, like, retirement, depression. My mom was like the glue, like the foundation, like, everything. It wasn't just like, oh, I lost like a family member. Because I know not everybody's close with their parents, but that one was just like, the queen on the chessboard is the most valuable player on the chessboard. And my mom was that. And so that was tough. I want to talk too much about because I want to cry on the podcast, but that was tough. And so for me, that was a huge life moment. And it really gave me perspective that all of this self improvement stuff and making all this money is really actually lower on the totem pole than I've placed it. And what matters most is your loved ones and your health and great experiences and great memories. And that doesn't cost a lot of money, and that doesn't always require you to be the best, Just be you. And so I live in this weird paradox now where the. I, like, I don't remember who taught me this, but it was like having multiple different, like, characters that you can shift back and forth between. Like, when I'm with my grandma, I'm different than when I'm with the boys, Then when I'm with my daughter, then when I'm with my wife, then when I'm doing a podcast, you know, you can shift, like, it's okay to shift into different modes. And there's like the playful father mode and then there's like the loving husband mode and the best friend mode and the teacher mode and the spiritual mode. And that spiritual mode for me got rocked in a way that it never had before. And I went through all the different, you know, grieving and depression and, you know, all that, but it taught me something that was so important, and it was just like, we're always, especially on podcasts like this, talking about make the money and be the best version of yourself. But, like, when that spiritual moment happens in your life, you're not gonna give a shit about the money or the self improvement. And I took six months off of focusing on making money, focusing on self improvement, and it just really anchored that in for me. And in 2018, I got sepsis and almost died. And that was a much smaller version of what I'm referring to, where I was like, hospitalized and like, that I couldn't work, I couldn't be around people because I couldn't risk getting any sicker. And so that was like a moment for me that was like, whoa. But the mom one was just like, because I got healthy, so I didn't actually lose anything, right? I got sick and I came right back. I was fine, no problem. But the mom one, I lost something that I'll never get back. And so that was like a much. It taught me, like, sepsis taught me some things, almost dying. But, like, losing my mom was like.
- [37:44]
Unknown
At a young age too.
- [37:46]
Joe
At A young age. Yeah. And with my daughter being so young and, like, see, I want to go.
- [37:50]
Unknown
There, listen a lot of people. This is a physical, physiological journey on this show because I asked some pretty deep questions.
- [37:56]
Joe
Yeah. But I wanted to bring that up because I feel like when people listen, it's. We spend a lot of time talking about money and the cool stuff. But I'm telling you right now, like, when you really get down to, like, the lowest level of what matters in your life, like, your deathbed, right, like, that's it, dude. Just being with your loved ones, being healthy and creating great memories and great experiences that you can cherish and hold on to forever. And so for anybody watching, just know that if you have the people that you love, if. If you're all healthy and you have the ability to make great memories that don't cost anything, like, you're already winning. So I just want, like, a positive message for everybody right now is, like, you're already winning if you have that. The making the money and the being your. That's just the fun stuff. Like, God lets us do those other things. But, like, cherish the health and the memories and the people you have now and don't get so wrapped up in the money and the this and then that. And so it was tough because, like, the timing of selling my company, I was so wrapped up in selling it that then when my mom passed, it was just like, I wish I wasn't so wrapped up in selling my company. And I could have been, you know? So just to put that out there for people, it's like, you're already winning if you have those things.
- [38:59]
Unknown
Love it. Now, this is something I. I asked parents, because you're a young parent, you only got one kid. But this is something I'm obsessed with. Matter of fact, you probably see my kids here soon. But I'm obsessed with teaching my kids grit, because our kids, your kids, are in this bucket, too. You're gonna probably have more. They don't come from the adversity that we come from. They're not cut from the same cloth. So how are you instilling the same level of grit and tenacity and fortitude that you have? Are you gonna sell that in your daughter?
- [39:34]
Joe
It's a good question, and I talk about it with my wife every night. And I want more education around that, because I don't think I have all the answers, because listen to the show.
- [39:48]
Unknown
I asked that question every entrepreneur.
- [39:50]
Joe
And see, I'm at a point now where I don't pretend to have answers to things. I used to try to be like, I have to have the answer to everything or people will think I'm stupid. I don't give a fuck anymore. If I have an answer, I'll share it to the best of my ability. But I don't have the answer for that because I only have a three year old and I haven't done it before. And she's my little princess and I want to spread spoil her in a way that allows her to know, like, you have options and choices and you can create that for yourself too when you become an adult. But, like, finding that balance between, like, spoiling and spoiling and giving her opportunities that other people aren't always blessed to have that can allow her to cultivate herself into the best, most confident, healthy, happy version of herself. I don't care if she goes on to become financially successful. I just want her to be happy and to be around people that love her and that she loves and to do something that gives her passion and joy and fulfillment. And I think if I had a son, I might feel different. I think if I had a son, I might be like, you need to be the provider and you need to at least is what I tell myself, right? If I had a son, I'd be like, you need to go out and you need to be the husband and the rock and the protection of your future family. You know what I mean? At least that's what I think. Maybe that's old school mentality.
- [41:06]
Unknown
It's still an applicable mentality. And yeah, maybe some listeners aren't, aren't with that.
- [41:11]
Joe
But as I feel like with a son, I'd be like, yo, you got to take care of yourself. I'm gonna be there for you and I'm gonna, you know, be a steward and support. But like, with my daughter, I'm like, daddy's always got you. Yeah, let me just give you some bitcoin.
- [41:24]
Unknown
You always be taken care of.
- [41:26]
Joe
Yeah, that's why I'm just like, princess, I. Daddy's got you and mommy's got you. Like, here's some bitcoin. Like, you're set for life, you know, I mean, like, because in 20 years, when she's an adult, she'll be 23. In 20 years, Bitcoin will be like at price points that sound ridiculous to even say.
- [41:39]
Unknown
Yeah. And so they'll be listening to the.
- [41:42]
Joe
Show like, I should have bought, you know.
- [41:44]
Unknown
Yeah, we were saying 75,000.
- [41:45]
Joe
You can always do any bitcoin video. You go back five, 10 years and it's been around for 16 on October 31st. So in like two days, it's Bitcoin, 16th anniversary of the white paper. So if you go back four years, five years, you always wish you bought then. So when people watch this in four or five years, for the next cycle, where bitcoin, you know, inevitably rips, you'll be like, I should have bought. Yeah, that's just the loop. And that's the loop that when you recognize it, it's like, you should have always bought the real estate five years ago. Because what does it do? It just goes up. And bitcoin goes up more at a faster, accelerated rate than that real estate. And so once you've recognized the pattern, you're like, oh, I should just buy it now. Like, that now is the best entry point, right?
- [42:31]
Unknown
You're right. Just like still real estate, that, same logical plans, real estate right now.
- [42:35]
Joe
And you spend all this time dicking around trying to figure out all these other things. When is the best entry point and what is it right now? It was now.
- [42:41]
Unknown
Yeah. A couple last questions I have for you. This one's a three pronged question. Okay. What is a personal goal that you have for yourself?
- [42:50]
Joe
Okay.
- [42:50]
Unknown
And a business school? Well, a personal goal you have for yourself. A family goal you have for the family, and then a business goal.
- [42:57]
Joe
Family goal is to do. And it can just. It's not like, specific to something. Family goal, short term would be to do. Like, I have this vision in my head to do this, the most epic family vacation, you know, like, I don't know if it's gonna be on the beach or if it's gonna be like, renting out, like the biggest cabin ever and just having, like the whole family stay, like a 12 bedroom, you know, just like, so awesome and like, everybody can be there and just like snowboard, ski, fireplace, hot chocolate, whatever. Just the whole family. This cozy cabin, lake vibe, whatever. I don't know, Right. It's like I have this vision, like, I want to do the. And just cover, direct everything, fly everybody out, pay for everything. Just like, no stress, just the best, like, hundred thousand, $200,000 vacation. Just like, bam. Just like this epic family vacation. We all have kids now. And, like, it's such a. It's such a different dynamic because, like, you go from like, I'm the kid to like, now I have kids and they have kids and they have kids. My brother has two kids. And it's like such a fun dynamic. So I want to do the most epic family vacation in the Next year or two as the kids are just a little bit older and can really enjoy it because my daughter's turning three next month. It's just there where like four and five, that's kind of where you can like they're a little more of a kid personal. It's probably fitness related. I'm on my fitness game right now trying to just track my macros. Eat clean, 95% clean. Still let myself enjoy myself. Right. Because nothing worse than being like that nut job who's just like so healthy and then gets hit by a car and you're like, you should have that thing that you really wanted to eat.
- [44:31]
Unknown
Yeah. Should have had the cake.
- [44:33]
Joe
You're dead.
- [44:34]
Unknown
You know, life is short.
- [44:35]
Joe
Eat the cake. Exactly. Yeah. So it's like finding that balance between like, alright, I'm gonna be like the healthiest and best I've ever been but also like leaving that little room in there. So it's probably fitness related. I want to drop a little bit lower in body fat and put on a little bit more muscle and keep eating healthy and feeling better and like just optimizing myself and looking into like stem cells and like crazy things to like biohack my body to like the best levels and reverse my age and all that.
- [45:01]
Unknown
Yeah, I'm on a biohacking routine.
- [45:03]
Joe
Yes. So that like just. Yeah, share whatever you got, bro. I'm on it.
- [45:07]
Unknown
Same, same with me.
- [45:08]
Joe
Share it. Swap notes.
- [45:09]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [45:10]
Joe
So I would say that's for health, it's personal family. It's an epic experience like I was talking about. And then for business. Right. That was the other one. It's going to be having building this data enrichment business up and then exiting it and this time exiting a company that gets a larger multiple. Because the company that I had sold was an education company and those only get like 3 to 4x EBITDA. And so you know, getting into more SaaS and AI related things around data enrichment you can get a much, much larger Multiple.
- [45:44]
Unknown
Multiple.
- [45:45]
Joe
Yeah. So three, I got a 3.3x on my company. So to get a 20x is like.
- [45:53]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [45:54]
Joe
Same effort and energy. And that's my point. You build a restaurant, it's gonna get like maybe a 1x multiple.
- [46:01]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [46:02]
Joe
Or you build a SaaS company, it's gonna get like a 12-20x multiple. And where are you gonna spend your effort and energy? And the restaurant business at some point is gonna get price gouged and destroy laws, labor laws, all the bs. Right?
- [46:19]
Unknown
Strikes. Cost of God.
- [46:21]
Joe
Exactly. And then what do you do you shut it down? Yeah. Nobody wants to buy it and it's gone. Sass, pump that baby up for three to five years. Have a big exit. Take that cash, put it on Bitcoin or put it on something else that's going to go up, you know, or Ethereum asymmetrical. So, all right. Those would be my things, bro.
- [46:41]
Unknown
Love it. Love it. Last question. I end the show with this question every single time I'm ready. When you're in front of the pearly gates.
- [46:50]
Joe
Okay.
- [46:51]
Unknown
What do you think God's going to tell you?
- [46:54]
Joe
Obviously would have to think about it from age 34, which would be different if I'm able to, God willing, live out what I believe could be a much longer life. That answer might be different if I'm able to live that far. But right now, see, that would be tough because my answer, I feel like there's so much I'm missing. So God could be like, you missed out on so much. But I try not to overthink it. I think I would say I'm proud of you. Yeah. Because I think deep down inside, I know that when I do feel led by God to do something, I'll do anything. Like, if I do feel like God's telling me to do something, it's like nothing's gonna stop. I'm gonna do that. Which means I'm one of his stewards.
- [47:32]
Unknown
Yeah. And the Holy Spirit drives your decisions.
- [47:34]
Joe
Exactly. So he knows that although I have my own free will to make my own choices, that I'm free to what he wants me to do, and therefore I'm God led. And if he has something for me to do as a mission, which is why my ultimate goal in life is to get to a point where I believe and I know this is a limiting belief, and we can go down the whole thing. Oh, you should be doing it now. It's like, okay. But in my head, I have this story that when I get to a certain financial level, everything in my life can shift to philanthropy. I've always been a very giving, contribution person, focused on, like, helping others, and just always feels so good to give, you know, especially once you've filled your cup up so much. Like, I know that's one of my favorite quotes and butchering it completely. But there's like, a billionaire, and he's like, you know, so rich, but he just never has enough. And then there's this other guy, and he says to the billionaire, you know, the billionaire says to him, like, you know, what's your goals? And what about this? And the guy says, well, I have something that you'll never have, Mr. Billionaire. I have enough. And I totally butchered it. But I think I landed the point that some people, no matter how successful they are, they just never have enough. And I feel like I definitely already have enough. So I'm gonna force myself to be even more philanthropic in giving more in the ways that I know that I'm able to. But, yeah, I feel like, you know, just philanthropy is my ultimate goal. And I feel like God would tell me he's proud of me because he knows that, like, my heart's in the right place. And, like, ultimately, that's what I want, because I just want to be able to help people and give back to people, which is why I love doing education. I took a while off of doing podcasts. Probably have a little bit better example of why I haven't done podcasts in a while, but I'm back. I'm gonna be going on more podcasts now. I've done over three 2000, 2000 interviews, but a thousand podcasts. So I've done 3000 total on both sides of the table as a host and as a guest. So I'll be doing more podcasts because I love giving back, contributing. And so hopefully something I said landed with somebody today that resonates. And I always try to remind myself, as long as one person's life can be impacted, like, truly impacted, not like, oh, that was good. I feel good. And then, like, they never do anything, but if one person heard something from my episode and they go out and do something, and then they hit me up on Instagram and they say, yo, that was incredible, credible. Your story really touched me. And, like, here's what I'm gonna do, or, here's how I took action, or they come back to me in 10 years and say, dude, I bought bitcoin from your freaking thing. And it went up so much, you.
- [49:58]
Unknown
Know, changed my life.
- [50:00]
Joe
And so, yes, just something.
- [50:02]
Unknown
Something. Yeah, I. I always think like that, too. As long as I'm touching one person, I don't care if they get to 1. 200, 000 views, right? 500, 000 views as long as it hits one by somebody. And there was so many nuggets of good wisdom on this show. And that's why I like to interview the most wise people, people I like to learn from. I. And you did get that one person, because that one person is me. So we won, right? Now we, you know, I'm taking action. Let's go and I already. You saw how fast I took action on from our lunch. And we're taking more action after this lunch, after this podcast. So, you know, this tries to be the focus of the show is to, you know, to serve. That's the whole point of what I do as a professional point of the show. And there, my spiritual mentor told me, as long as we do God's work, God always does our work. So that's how I'm led. All right, bro. It was a pleasure, Mark Lack. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. See y'all next week.