Scaling Brands with Ads ft. Chase Chappell | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

Summary

Coffeez for Closers Episode Summary: "Scaling Brands with Ads ft. Chase Chappell"

Release Date: June 6, 2025

In this compelling episode of "Coffeez for Closers," hosted by Joseph Shalaby of E Mortgage Capital, Joe welcomes Chase Chappell, a young and dynamic figure in the advertising world. Chase shares his inspiring journey from launching his agency at 18 to managing millions in ad spend and generating over $2 billion in revenue for his clients. The conversation dives deep into paid media mastery, the impact of AI on advertising, effective coaching programs, and strategies for scaling brands in saturated markets.

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1. Introduction to Chase Chappell’s Journey

Chase begins by highlighting his early start in the advertising industry, launching his agency at just 18. By 21, he was managing millions in ad spend and has since built tools, mentored thousands, and driven substantial revenue for his clients.

“At just 18, he launched his agency. By 21, he was managing millions in ad spend.” ([00:00])

2. Lessons from Failed Campaigns

Chase discusses the crucial lessons learned from campaigns that didn’t go as planned, emphasizing the importance of proper tracking and messaging.

“Tracking is probably the biggest problem. Messaging is another big one.” ([00:41])

He explains that without accurate tracking systems, it’s challenging to identify which marketing channels are delivering the best ROI, especially for large companies with diverse ad platforms.

3. The Role of Tracking Ecosystems

Chase elaborates on how his agency sets up comprehensive tracking systems for clients, enabling them to see which channels are most effective.

“We help them set it up on the back end so that way they can actually see which attribution channel is delivering the most ROI.” ([01:18])

He mentions utilizing various tools like APIs and sophisticated tracking software to ensure precise data collection and analysis.

4. Overcoming Early Challenges and Building Credibility

Chase shares his personal story of overcoming age-related challenges in a highly saturated market. Initially, his young age hindered his credibility with corporate clients.

“I was 60 pounds less than I was now... some skinny kid with no facial hair saying he can run all of your company's marketing.” ([02:19])

Determined to prove himself, Chase focused intensely on delivering results, eventually transforming his appearance to gain the trust of potential clients.

“I started lathering it all over my face... six weeks later, I had like a Gigantic beard at the age of 17.” ([04:54])

5. Achieving Success with Major Clients

One of Chase’s notable successes includes securing a major account with 7-Eleven, where his agency outperformed a 40-member team with just four people, delivering double the results.

“We were able to do double the results with way fewer team members.” ([05:42])

6. Insights on Ad Platforms and Scaling Strategies

Chase provides an insightful analysis of various advertising platforms, highlighting where businesses can achieve the best ROI.

• TikTok Shop: Described as the most explosive for growth, capable of driving rapid increases in revenue.
• Meta (Facebook and Instagram): Remains consistent and reliable with high budgets and diverse ad management features.
• Threads: An emerging platform offering lower CPMs and new advertising opportunities.
• LinkedIn: While basic and clunky, it still performs well for specific outreach efforts.

“TikTok Shop is the most explosive in terms of... someone can go from 20k to 800k in a month.” ([05:50])

7. The Impact of AI on Advertising

Chase delves into the transformative role of AI in the advertising industry, discussing how it’s revolutionizing content creation and campaign management.

“AI's tones are actually super engaging... It looks so realistic.” ([08:15])

He explains how AI tools are making graphic design obsolete by enabling the creation of high-quality visuals in minutes, thus streamlining workflows and enhancing productivity.

8. Coaching Programs and Client Filtration

Chase outlines his high-ticket coaching program designed to train businesses to manage their own advertising in-house. The program is highly selective, rejecting 90% of applicants to ensure that only qualified clients proceed.

“We reject like 90% of applications... the people who do qualify, then they’re going to move forward.” ([14:11])

This approach ensures that clients have the necessary foundation and resources to implement the strategies effectively.

9. Adapting to Compliance and Ethical Advertising

Chase emphasizes the importance of maintaining compliance in advertising, especially in regulated industries like mortgages. He shares strategies for crafting compliant messages that avoid costly ad rejections and maintain low CPMs.

“You have to replace wordings... Instead of saying I'm going to get you X result, say my client did Y.” ([24:24])

10. Future Technologies and AI Agents

Looking ahead, Chase expresses excitement about AI agents that can analyze vast amounts of ad data to provide actionable insights, thereby optimizing ROI and reducing human error in attribution.

“We take your ad data... and it can really start to amplify your ROIs a lot quicker.” ([27:13])

11. Emerging Platforms and TikTok Opportunities

Chase predicts significant growth opportunities on platforms like TikTok, which continues to innovate with features like integrated booking links, simplifying the conversion process.

“They're about to come out with the feature that I was just sitting in on a meeting on...” ([27:13])

12. Personal and Business Goals

Towards the end of the episode, Chase shares his personal and business aspirations. Personally, he aims to solidify his relationship and organize a significant family trip. Professionally, his goal is to 2-3x his company’s growth within the year, a target he is already well on his way to achieving.

“We're going to 2 to 3x this year. Already know we will.” ([31:30])

13. Reflections and Closing Thoughts

Chase reflects on his rapid success, expressing both pride and a need to redefine his future goals as he contemplates what’s next after achieving his initial targets.

“I've hit every single one of them... I don’t even know where I'm going from here.” ([32:34])

Joe Shalaby concludes the conversation by commending Chase’s achievements and encouraging listeners to connect with him on Instagram for further insights.

“You're dominating... keep doing it, bro.” ([34:26])

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Conclusion

This episode of "Coffeez for Closers" offers a wealth of knowledge on scaling brands through effective advertising, leveraging AI technologies, and building robust coaching programs. Chase Chappell’s insights and experiences provide valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and professionals looking to enhance their business strategies and achieve substantial growth in a competitive landscape.

Transcript

[Sam]

While most people were scrolling TikTok, Chase Chappell was engineering the algorithm. At just 18, he launched his agency. By 21, he was managing millions in ad spend. Now he's built tools, mentored thousands and helped generate over $2 billion in revenue for his clients. In this episode we dive into paid media mastery, building SaaS from scratch and the psychology behind scroll stopping content. From teenage hustle to tech founder at SC welcome to Coffees manage over $200.

[Chase Chappell]

Million in ad spend. What's the biggest lesson you've learned from a campaign that didn't go as planned?

Probably tracking. A lot of times people don't have the right tracking set up on the like back end of things. That's like the biggest problem. Messaging is another big one. Not having the right offer in place. Those are like big culprits. Creatives, messaging back in tracking. If you don't know like where the source of something is coming from, then you can definitely mess up, especially with big companies. Because if you think about all the marketing channels they have from Google Ads, Facebook ads, TikTok ads, they're running retail, they have billboards, there's so many sources, events. If you don't know where the source is coming from, then it's kind of hard to double down on where spin goes.

Are you providing the tracking ecosystem for your clients?

Yeah, so we help them set it up on the back end so that way they can actually see which attribution channel is delivering the most roi. Because you need to know the data in order to be able to scale. Scale efficiently.

Absolutely. So you're using what go high level or something for your clients.

Yeah, so they either have their own tracking software, you know, triple. Well, hi Rose. There's so many different tools out there that they can use. But you know, we also set up like manual back end tracking where we set up like APIs. Segment is another one that like pulls in all the data. You know, pretty sophisticated level tracking if they really want to get down into the details of it.

We're big marketers with our company here at Emortgage. You know, we spend millions on ads, we spend millions on technology, we spend millions on creating proper infrastructure for, for us, for our agency, like for every single loan officer that works within us. So what do you think has really been a key culprit to your success in, in such a saturated space?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I mean, just background. So I dropped out of high school going into my sophomore year. I was already doing six figures as a freshman in high school, you know, managing agency accounts. I'm pretty young, but I don't think most people realize how much time some things take. And especially going into a space that's extremely saturated. I mean, everybody on the block has a marketing company, right?

Yeah.

Like what's tiny golf learning? Um, so, you know, I've already almost been doing this 10 years now. So it's been a, a slow, slow grind of just like every day being super consistent. The first thing that front loaded it was when I dropped out of high school. You know, there wasn't much I was doing after that because I moved so far away from my school. I was like an hour, you know, I went straight to the city in Dallas. So I wasn't around anybody that I knew. I was just focusing. I ended up going into, you know, what people call now is like monk mode. I don't even know what that was called back then. But essentially it's like no technology. You just literally the only tech you have is your work computer. There's no getting on social media, no interacting with people, no holidays, no family. It's just two years of straight silence and work. And so I built up over two years during that period working with a ton of different brands. And then I encountered a ton of, of roadblocks along the way. I mean, we're huge, you know, growing like crazy now. But back then I couldn't land clients like I could now just due to the age factor. The age thing was the biggest problem for me back then. Everybody thought I looked super young. I was 60 pounds less than I was now. You know, imagine like some skinny kid with no facial hair saying he can run all of your company's marketing. It's not the most trustworthy looking thing, even if you know what you're doing. So I had all these old corporate heads. You know, I went into pitch 711 at the age of, you know, 16, 17 years old. And I was trying to win that corporate account at that age. And the age question was always the biggest problem. So I ended up going into that, you know, corporate meeting, leaving feeling super discouraged because I'd heard the age problem like a hundred times. Went to Walmart and went to the men's hair growth section for old men and there was a product that said do not. It was like hair growth. You put it on like a bald spot and it grows hair. And it said do not use on face. So I opened it up and I started lathering it all over my face. And then six weeks later, I had like a Gigantic beard at the age of 17 and never got the edge question ever again.

That's awesome.

And then I just let my results speak for my, you know, speak for themselves. And then I didn't have to worry about any of the other things.

That's a funny story. We had the founder, the CEO of seven eleven on our show, Jim Keys. Did you ever pitch him?

I didn't. So they're a huge company. I don't think people realize how big 711 is. Like Walmart and McDonald's locations combined don't even have as many 7 11s. Like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we pitched their, you know, marketing directors. I mean, we went through the whole ladder there. We would do QBRs. I worked with them for seven years. We beat their agency. They had 40 agency team members working on their account. It ended up switching over to us and I only had four people. So we were able to do double the results with way less team members.

What do you think the most significant results you see, you know, on. On the different verticals right now, like where. What has the best bang for your buck on every platform?

Tick tock Shop is the most explosive in terms of, I mean, if you're looking at hockey stick growth, it's very hard to find on any platform. You know, outside of TikTok shop, where I'm talking about, you know, going parabolic where you're, you know, somebody can go from 20k to 800k in a month, you know, time frame. Pretty explosive, you know, and then in terms of like, you know, Legion and what people are doing there, like meta is very consistent as a platform today. You know, you can now run ads on Threads. So they just opened up that avenue. So we're talking about a lot lower CPM for a lot of people are about to be activated. So you can now start distributing your ads to Threads, which is like the competitor of X. So they've been building up all the user engagement there and now everybody can run ads. So that's gonna be a huge wave of opportunity, I think, coming up here.

Well, they're gonna try to grab market share, so it's gonna be cheap, right?

Yeah. So like now that the user base is there, they rolled out the ad buying for it. So now you can go place ads on Threads. So if you have automatic placements on Meta, you're hitting ig, you're hitting Facebook, you know, but now you can also get on the Threads platform.

Oh, that's good to know.

I mean, both platforms are great, But I mean, LinkedIn's ad buying platform inherently is like super basic. Yeah. It's clunky, it's not so sophisticated. The engagement there, it's, it's a different beast. Right. But I mean people are scaling on there. Like when we were doing, you know, franchising leads, getting people to acquire franchise like you know, we tested LinkedIn, all the platforms that you know are out there, but consistently Meta just outperforms and can hold the highest budgets and same.

For Google, I see. Yeah, it's good to know. We're always trying to play with what, what works best.

Yeah. And then TikTok's probably another big opportunity for a lot of like legion people. A lot of people haven't cracked the code there. It's probably one of the most challenging things to figure out in terms of creative. But if you're really good at creating like short form video content, it can be like, you know, a huge unlock for people. If you understand creative, you're gonna do well on TikTok and anywhere else. Especially podcasting clips. You take clips of podcasts, those convert.

Like crazy on TikTok.

Yeah. And meta. So like we'll, we'll trend test like videos on Tick Tock because once they perform there, they're always going to perform on Meta. But what performs on Meta doesn't perform on Tick Tock. So you might as well just go to Tick Tock, get the video to work and then migrate it over.

It's good to know. Let me ask you, like with the rise of AI, you know, Mark Zuckerberg coming out saying, you know, a couple years, like in a year you're not gonna need an ad agency.

Yeah, it's happening. It's already happening. It's killing graphic designers. You no longer need like a sophisticated like you know, graphic design team. AI right now is getting indistinguishable from what you see in images. A lot of times people can't even tell the difference. Specifically there was a study with AI and Meta and they're finding that now like anybody over like the age of 50, like the, like the chance of them not recognizing AI is you know, getting really close to it being 95, 100% where they can't tell, they literally can't tell. You know, the young people can still somewhat notice the differences because they know what to look for. But every day it's getting a lot closer. And I think like content specifically, it's going to make everything easier to manage. But images are being self generated. You can create a perfect ad even better than the ones that most Graphic designers can do, you know, in a matter of a few minutes. We've been testing it, they're crushing it. And then AI avatars, you can now deal. And we've been seeing that over the last year get better and better. It was, you know, the voice matching wasn't right, hand motions weren't there. But now the AI, instead of just being a talking head video, it's moving its hands, it's communicating, it's picking stuff up, it's talking and pointing. So whenever it makes a big point, it's actually exaggerating its words and using tonality now. So instead of, hi, this is this company, it's like one tone now. AI's tones are actually super engaging. It's throwing people off from like what's actually real. And the hand motions are like spoofing people because it actually looks so realistic. You know, the lag in the cameras on normal cameras, you know, can be mistaken for AI. And so some people think the real, like real videos are AI now. So I think it's going to replace content first and make it easier for people who just know how to use it. And then shortly after, you know, I think a lot of these ad platforms, it's just really just going to be who can produce the most content and feed it into the AI and just let it do its thing.

So how does that impact your business? Is that good? Is that bad? Is it, you know, does it help your business? Does it hurt your business?

It's a good question. So right now it's helping because we're on the front lines of it. We're introducing it to people, it's generating more results for our clients. So it's a win win for us. They don't know how to use the AI tool. So there's now instead of us, you know, training how to edit a video or hey, here's the creative you need and then going to their content team, we're saying, hey, use this tool, here's what you need to say, here's how you need to word it so that way it can produce creatives faster. It's not 100%. Everyone's only using that now, but we're seeing the adoption accelerate significantly across our, like, portfolio of clients. We have like a 30 client benchmark. So if we, if we, if we're testing something and it works across 30 accounts, we're going to tell everybody to do it thereafter once it's proven. So once it hits that threshold, we roll it out and so the adoption is going up. It's not impacting us in a negative way, but it is cutting out their content team. So we are seeing people let their content people go for, like, static. So a lot of people who are using Upwork Fiverr hiring, know, graphic designers and paying these crazy, outrageous fees, they can get a lot of designs done with AI now. So that's the first wave that's been cut.

Yeah, I see. I mean, we. We still use designers, but mid journey, 11 labs, all these places, they're okay right now?

They're okay, yeah. But there's tools now that are a lot better. So what's Your favorite chat? GPT4O's latest update is like, the big one. It's not super great at, like, keeping people's faces the same there, but it's great for, like, you know, static images, arcades, AI. That tool right now is pretty stellar in terms of, like, spoofing what looks like a real human because it actually uses the tones and the hand movements and you could tell it to do anything and it would. You could take a picture of anybody and put it in there and it's going to make them, you know, talking video. It can do podcast backgrounds. You could literally say, no, put the podcast in a studio behind them and it looks so real, you really can't tell. And then winning Hunter, that's like another good one for, like, you know, images. There's a lot out there, but they're just getting better. Every week I see a better one.

Yeah, I heard a stat, like every minute there's a new AI application.

I think. Yeah, within a year. I mean, a year ago, we were seeing, like, those, like, Will Smith like, weird videos of AI and everybody's just like, this is a joke. But now it's really real. It's hard to tell the difference. And it's working. So I don't even know, like, a year from now, it's going to be indistinguishable 100%. I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference. I think it has to be after that.

So what do you think the future is of human creativity? What kind of strategies do humans need to implement?

Yeah, I think the creativity is going to become from how well you can word your vision rather than creating it.

Right.

Like, how good are you at putting things into words? So you're gonna have to become a fantastic communicator to really, like, visualize a lot of this stuff. So whoever, whoever's best at communicating with the AI the most and then reinforcing it with Learnings. That's where the creativity is gonna come from. Because a lot of it, if you don't give it much, it's gonna be its own, it'll generate its own thing. But the more creative you are in terms of explaining it, the better it'll be.

That's where the future is for human creativity. It's like really controlling the AI, Directing the AI, getting the max out of the AI.

Yeah, I don't think creativity will like fully go away. I think there's always going to be like, you know, there's always going to be creative people. There's always going to be people who refuse to use AI that do just as amazing work. Right now I think we're in like the amplification phase of AI where it's like amplifying output significantly and streamlining workflows and, you know, making things just way faster than what it normally used to take. We're streamlining everything with it. It's, it's sped up a lot of stuff for us.

Pivoting a little bit. You have a coaching program, but it's not a regular coaching program. It's a high ticket coaching program. How do you address like the critiques that you get about the accessibility to your coaching programs? And people are like, how can I afford that?

Yeah, we tell them no or we reject them. We reject like 90% of applications. We filter out like people who don't meet the financial thresholds. If they don't have the monthly revenue, if they don't have a good founded team, if they don't have creative capacity, if their website doesn't make certain benchmarks, we just refuse to work with them. So we're rejecting a lot of individuals who reach out to us. So it's, you know, a lot of filtration. And then the people who do qualify, then, you know, they're going to move forward.

These are other agencies that are basically your coaching.

This could be people who want to take it in house and manage it. So a lot of times people work with an agency and they'll have it all done for them. They pay them a monthly retainer and then the agency doesn't perform and they get burned. They go to a different agency, same story all over again. False promises across the board. It's, it's a horrendous thing in our space right now as agencies like basically just making false hopes and then burning people. You know, everybody's had that experience. So what we do is we train in house on how to do it all themselves. So they Have a fixed cost with their team. They pay us a one time payment. We train them on everything they need to do on how to manage it in house so that way they don't have to outsource it, they don't have to hire another agency. And the only. And when they do decide to get an agency because there's just too much work to handle and they need more manpower, they're not going to be BS anymore because they know.

They know what to look for.

Exactly. So they can.

Yeah, we dealt with that so many times and we always are. Like, I wish I would have known there was like a coaching program for to coach my people so I could bring everything in in house.

Yeah, Perform the best people in the business who know it and care about it or somebody externally that's just looking for another retainer to, you know, bump their mrr.

So what do you charge a company for your coaching?

Yeah, so it's just 10,000, one time payment and then we're literally going to spend six months training either the founder or somebody on their team, their marketing department, on how to manage their Facebook ads, TikTok ads, their back end, their tracking, email, sms, website landing page conversion rates. They also get eight weeks of one on one trainings with us. So they're all recorded, they receive the calls, it's all done with AI too, the recording, so they don't have to take notes and they can literally play it back and they can say, hey, here's all the things that we need to make changes to our website. Here's all the things we gotta do with our ads. And then by the end of that, you know, mentorship, the goal would be for them to know how to do everything themselves from there on out without having to have some external party involved. And it saves a ton of money for businesses. And then they grow even more because you know, they know the messaging for their business. They just don't know how to manage all the other factors or how to optimize or what the creatives need to look like or how to tweak the landing page. But once you know that internally, then your team can communicate 100 times faster.

And just scale well, how do they stay up to date with the trends? If you train them once and it's like everything's changing so quick.

That's a good question. So I mean if things do change over time, like we do have a lot of people who will come back because of that reason. Um, a lot. Like let's. We had a huge wave of people come Back to us when we were going over Facebook ads and then TikTok started booming, everybody was like, all right, I don't know anything about this. I gotta go back through this again and get our team trained on this platform now. So, you know, they'll either come back or, you know, they'll scale so significantly that they just are like, hey, we trust you guys. You know what you're doing. We obviously learned from you. We'd rather just have y' all manage it and then we'll take it over from there. And we're full service on that aspect now.

And you, you're like, we, we talked about this, but you're in the most saturated business that exists. I mean, like, I don't think there's more of a saturated business. And everyone claims to be an expert. How do you set your approach aside from what everyone's offering and, like, filter out all the noise?

Yeah. So because there is so many people in this space and there are so many, like, different offers out there, a lot of what we do is based off of, like, you know, the volume of clients that we have on the back end. So all of our internal trainings are based off of if we have a thousand ad accounts or a thousand websites that we have access to and all the data we can pretty much learn off of this industry. Here's what's working. Let's go ahead and apply it to everybody else in this space. So every time somebody comes in, we're able to essentially say, hey, you need these apps, you need these exact creatives. We categorize and build out catalogs of the ad formats based off spend, ROIs, you know, lowest cost per call booking, you know, most qualified clients based off messaging, and literally have a database of, like, here's all the stuff we know that works, and we just replicate it across every person that's, you know, comes in. Because that way we're not like the creative guys that are like, hey, let's try this brand new idea. Here's. I was in my show and I just thought of this thing we could try on your business. Like, that's not our game. Ours is. We already know this works. We're not going to do anything else but what works. And we're going to apply it to your business now. So it's just rinse and repeat. So it's very consistent for us. And because we, you know, turn away a bunch of clients, too, we know, like, our hit rate is going to be very high on the outcome of their results. And because this space is so saturated. Everything is dependent on results anyways, so we kind of have built this flywheel for that and yeah, I mean we're inc's fastest growing company two years in a row and you know, we just gotta huge space here and we're expanding like crazy and I mean if you just deliver on value and focus on that then it's pretty easy to break through.

So how many more square feet did you guys get over there?

We just got 4, 500 square feet here and then we're putting a Tick Tock Live studio in Chicago as well. So yeah, we're opening up spaces.

What are you doing with the Tick Tock Live studio?

Tick Tock Live studio. So if you see like TikTok lives so now like brands are live is like becoming something that a lot of people are doing in other countries. But it hasn't really hit the US market like it has everywhere else. It's like so lives like a live studio is basically where you have like a dedicated person that we've trained on like how to do live streams and they just were like it's 24 hours a day, like they're always on live and then you just keep swapping people on shifts and they're, they stay live all the time, talking about the business, talking about the product, talking about the service. And it's like a built in studio and it's always running. You have comment moderators, you have people pinging DMS that are on the lives closing, collecting on cells, literally all live streaming and it's just running 24 7.

So we're on 247 doing a live show.

Yeah. So if you think about like how TV was back in the old days, like when CNN was like, hey, we're going to run a news network that goes 24 hours a day instead of four hours, you know, a day. Everybody's like, that's the craziest idea. Why would anybody ever want to watch that? Well, it's like what people do with lives right now. We get on for two hours, four hours, call it a day. So it's just taking that same, you know, roadmap and applying it here on TikTok.

I would love to go live more but you know, viewership's lower. Like you get like 50 people, 100 people on your live.

Yeah. So if you stay live all day, if you're, if you're, you're always going to be, let's say you do 50 to 100 during that live stream. Well, nobody's going to watch the live 24 hours. But any time somebody pops on social media that tunes in, now you're talking about, let's say every two hours you're getting a 50 new set of people. So you end up covering, you know, 12 times the amount of volume.

Like, I try to deliver on value. Like, I'll do a podcast for an hour, go live. Can you do for 24 hours just, like, sit there?

Yeah. So questions, topics. So there's like, you know, there's definitely like a routine to follow. It's very, like, you know, organized in terms of, like, what's being covered. Right. And then, you know, as the live comments do come in, you also notice spikes in activity based off certain topics. So you hit those harder and you repeat them. So it's kind of like the news again. So the news will repeat a lot of the same stuff because different groups of people get on and watch the news at different times. So it's very similar to live, except you're just doing it for your business.

I like it. Now, how do you ensure that your strategies are always effective across different industries and market dynamics?

So that, that goes back to our, like, 30 client rule. So let's say that we have a client come in and we're managing, like, their ads, right. Or we're going over training for them on something they need to fix. Well, we're looking at that. But then we, you know, go to their website and we see that their metrics are, like, off the charts in terms of, like, wow, they have, like, extremely high conversion rates. They're crushing it on, you know, sells in this. Well, that's new data to us. Right. Or that's insights like, hey, we're working on their ads and helping them fix this, but they have something really amazing over here that we haven't seen before. We're going to take notes down and we're going to log that data. And if we start seeing more stuff like that across other people who are doing similar stuff, and then we start testing it with, you know, a handful of people and it works as well. We're going to roll that out to everybody. So just like we're helping somebody in one direction, we also see somebody's doing something really amazing. We're going to take, you know, note of it and see if it's working for other people, too. So that way we can pretty much like, always be learning and always be launching strategies that scale. So it kind of goes both ways. We, you know, teach our clients and train them on things, but things that we noticed that we haven't seen before that they're doing that might be new because a lot of companies do test new stuff on their end and we'll, we'll discover that and we're intrigued by it and we want to know. So we're going to take those learnings and start applying them as well for, you know, other individuals. So that way we can scale. So it's kind of like a knowledge collective, you know, it's like a big brain of just access to information.

Now one thing we deal with as a mortgage company is like compliance, tcpa, all that stuff. And I'm sure you're those spaces.

It's not so much to be able to do that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. If there's NDAs involved, we don't do it. If there's compliance, you can't. Yeah, there's red tape in certain spaces. Medical. That's a definite hard nail.

So. But there's still so much regulation around advertising with all the different tightening. How are you adapting to the ad strategies to like continue to maintain such high performing ads?

We have like, you know, policies that are always reviewed in, in terms of like messaging and like what you can say with getting ad rejections or making sure you like get really low CPMs. Because certain words spike your CPM cost, which is cost per impression. You know, a lot of people are like, you know, our costs are rising year over year, which is true. But sometimes it's how you word things. So if you make, you know, marketing claims or false claims or they're not compliant, sometimes the platform won't even tell you. They'll just push it live because it's not necessarily against their policy, but it's definitely erring on the side of like, you know, it's not the best messaging. So they're going to throttle your results in terms of how many people you reach. And people don't know that. So you got to like change your, how you word things. So a lot of times you don't want to say I'll help you do XYZ or you don't want to say I'm going to get you X result. You want to say my client, you know, did this number to this number. Right. Because it's based off of them. It's a testimonial or it's, you know, a statistic that's actually proven. But if you're making a claim, you're going to get throttled. So you got to reword things. It could be I'll help you make 20k or it could be my client made an extra 20k. You're going to get the same, you know, level of interest, but the amount of people you reach just by switching the verbiage there helps dramatically with your, with your ads.

It's all nlp, like neuro linguistic programming. Now looking like, how do you balance the pursuit of like a high ROI with the various ethical considerations and like targeting messaging.

Us as a company, I mean we, we stay on the compliance side and making sure messaging is always to a T because so many people in this space are, you know, just way, way too far off on how they go about doing things. And those companies all the time roi, like yeah, I'm sure you can make some crazy false claim and like have some explosive numbers, but it's going to be a short fuse once, once people start looking into that kind of stuff. So like the balance there is. Yeah, it's just word swapping. Making sure you just like, you know, word things in a way that isn't boldly making any guarantees. And we find that it works better because guaranteed language and you know, making all these crazy claims anyways, people are burned out on them. The amount of people doing it, it's too much now. It's. I, I think the sensitivity level to it now is like, it just, people don't like it anymore. They just rather hear like what the actual, like, oh, 20% increase. Like we're seeing better conversions on something like that than like, oh, we, you know, 100x this business. It's like we've heard that before.

So if you're looking ahead, what are the emerging technologies right now like that are you're most excited about the merging platforms? You mentioned Threads? Like what else?

Yeah, I mean I think TikTok is still a huge unlock. It's, it's growing at light speed. I went to their headquarters recently, just a couple of months back, we were their biggest referral partner in terms of ad dollars in 2024. And at their offices they're saying, hey, we're still a startup. Like, you know, we're the small kid, the baby on the block. And it's so funny. It's like, man, this company's like about to do like $80 billion. Like how are you calling yourself a baby or a small startup? But their way of thinking is very much so that way. And the things that they're doing is they're still operating in that standard, so they're launching so many features and so many things you can do on the platform. Like they're about to come out with the feature that I was just sitting in on a meeting on, which instead of like sending people to a landing page to book in through calendly, you can now have a calendly link inside of like the actual ad and book within that time slot without actually having to open the landing page at all, which significantly reduces the load times, increases quality. It just as a whole. But that's like, you know, these are things that they're doing. So these are huge legion opportunities. And now AI. So you have the AI on the platforms that's getting, you know, better. But what's really interesting is the AI agents to where you can kind of have your own mini AI to feedback loop the data. So this is like something that we're starting to test in. So essentially how it works is you take your ad data From Meta or TikTok, you take it off platform, you feed the metrics into the like GPT, the AI for ChatGPT and then you take your CRM data and you match it with. All right, here's how many leads, here's all of our metrics on Meta. We're also going to feed it all of our show up rates from our calls. We're going to also feed it all of the close rates and the closes by individual's name and even match that back to the exact person on Meta and feed it all into the gbt. So that way it can then start to learn from specific ad messaging like on a core level to then basically just give you outcomes so you can scale faster. Because a lot of times it's all human driven, right? Like you analyze the data, you kind of pull things out and say, all right, here's what we found, here's what's working. This is like the audience or the ad, but there's a lot of human error in there and there's also a lot of unaccounted factors that people miss. Example would be click on ad. They don't convert this week, but they convert like a month later. But they received the email from email marketing, they clicked on that, went to the website, they ended up seeing a Google Ad because they searched later because they're interested about it. Go back to the website. Well, sales team calls them because they see them moving around in the CRM and ends up closing them. So who gets the attribution? Right? Well we could say the ad was the one that did the work, but really there's a lot of other factors that went into that for that person to be closed. So when you get that kind of data and you start attributing value points to that, you can really start to amplify your ROIs a lot quicker.

I noticed that TikTok's not nearly as strict as Facebook meta. Right. Profiling your. Your target audience way more loose.

You can target household income still. You can do a lot of things that meta discontinued, which is great. So you can get really specific there. You can even target specific, you know, videos that your competitors are posting. Professionals.

Various professionals.

Yeah. Like you can go by industry, you can go by hashtags. Like you could type in hashtag mortgage and see how many people are like, you know, interacting with that hashtag and then target all those people. You can retarget. Not like you can on. Like to the degree you can on TikTok. Like Meta has. Meta's is very basic retargeting. You can do retargeting on pretty much any interaction on TikTok, which is pretty awesome. So, like you could, you know, anybody who even followed or like people who watch for less than a second or just scroll past your video competitors, all of it. It's pretty wide open over there.

Wow, that's great to know. Pivoting a little bit. What are. I want to talk about goals. What is a personal goal that you have for yourself, A family goal that you have for your family at a business goal that you have for the.

Business right now, looking to seal the deal with the girlfriend here pretty soon. And then family going on a trip with everybody. So we've been planning a big family and get together. So we haven't done that in a while. So I've been so busy, so much movement, never really get the chance to, you know, finally spend a full week with the family. I haven't done that in forever. And then what was the final one?

And then a business goal.

Yeah, we're going to 2 to 3x this year. Already know we will. That goal is kind of already a given to us. It's already written into the game plan. We're pretty consistent hitting our goals, so we're not too far off from the target. So we literally set this goal at the beginning of the year. And then last month we had the largest company record we ever had in terms of people working with us, most amount of cash collected we've ever done, and we wrote the playbook for what it would look like and we started executing on it. We're already halfway there. So by August, I expect we hit that goal and then we'll have to change it.

Last question. When you're in front of the pearly gates. What do you think God's going to tell you?

Oh, a lot of things. And the one thing probably that I should have spent more time making connections on an individual level. I feel like the last, like, 10 years have been a blur. I started to wake up and I looked around in my condo and I was like, damn, this is badass. And, you know, looking at the office, I'm like, wow, this is cool. I'm not, like, really processing it, you know, it's like, wait, we're already here? We already have these things or starting to realize, like, we've been moving so quickly. I one day, just the other month, I was looking back through my notepads because I was trying to find a new one and I buy so many of them and I put them in these containers and I was digging through and I was like, hey, here's that notepad I had from, you know, when I first wrote down my goals and I realized I had hit every single one of them. I wrote down this huge list and every single goal had been hit. And I was like, man, what goals do I have right now that I am targeting? And so I had this big think through moment of, like, shoot. Like, I've just been going, like, we passed these goals so quickly. We got the channel to where we wanted to be. All these things I ever dreamed of before I even started social media. I wanted X amount of followers or, you know, this much money in the bank or all these, you know, material things. And every single one, we're done. I was like, I don't even know where I'm going from here. I'm just, like, in the trenches, like, so used to the discipline of doing things. I don't even know what the next step was now. So I have to rethink a lot of that stuff of, like, what we're trying to do now.

Well, I hope you hit every one of your goals. God bless you. Keep dominating. I'm stoked to hear that. You're like a young guy, like, who's growing, hitting his goals and beyond and keep doing it, bro. So if people want to connect with you, how do they find you?

Yeah, Instagram would be the best place. Real Chase Chapel. C H A P P E L L. You can DM us podcast and mortgage and we'll know you can come here.

Sweet, bro. It was a pleasure to meet you, Chase. It was a pleasure to get you on the show. You, you're dominating. And we'll stay in touch. God bless you, man.

Sweet. Thanks so much, Sam.