The Future of AI, Digital Twins & AGI ft. Bill Inman | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

Summary

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Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

Episode: "The Future of AI, Digital Twins & AGI" ft. Bill Inman

Release Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Joseph Shalaby
Guest: Bill Inman (Founder, Twin Protocol)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the rapidly evolving world of artificial intelligence, digital twins, and the future implications of artificial general intelligence (AGI) and artificial superintelligence (ASI). Host Joseph Shalaby sits down with Bill Inman, a tech entrepreneur and founder of Twin Protocol, to discuss personal legacy, the urgency of data ownership, the next leap in AI technology, and how individuals and businesses should position themselves for the AI-driven future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of Digital "Twins" and AI Legacy Preservation

• Twin Protocol’s Mission: Allowing individuals to create AI-powered digital twins, storing personal stories, wisdom, and expertise for future generations and practical uses.

  • Example: Ingesting media (e.g., a late helicopter pilot’s memoir and videos) to create a twin that shares stories with family members ([02:04], [02:46]).
  • Emotional impact: Both speakers discuss the moving experience of interacting with an AI representation of a deceased loved one.

• Applications:

  • Preserving family history and wisdom across generations.
  • Empowering family offices to pass on not only wealth, but values and missions through interactive, AI-based historical figures.

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2. Understanding AI's Evolution: ANI → AGI → ASI

• Key Terms:

  • ANI (Artificial Narrow Intelligence): Current AI that performs single tasks well (e.g., ChatGPT, image editing).
  • AGI (Artificial General Intelligence): AI as capable as a human being; able to perform any intellectual task ([07:10]).
  • ASI (Artificial Superintelligence): AI surpasses all human intelligence, generating world-changing ideas rapidly.

• Timeline and Societal Impact:

  • “All of this is happening in the next five to ten years.” ([08:28])
  • Comparison to electricity’s gradual integration; AI transition will be "compressed" into a single decade.
  • Some jobs will be made obsolete, but the era will create more millionaires than any other period in history.

• Quote:

  "People need to understand what it is and they need to be able to use it in their own lives."
  — Bill Inman [06:48]

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3. Data Ownership, Privacy, and the Role of Blockchain

• AI Training Data Concerns:

  • AI companies absorb vast quantities of user-generated content from across the internet; personal data fuels public AI models ([12:02]-[14:08]).

• Blockchain as a Solution:

  • Storing personal data (e.g., podcast episodes, blogs) on blockchain to establish immutable ownership and privacy ([15:54]).
  • Individuals and businesses can monetize and control the use of their content, as opposed to relinquishing power to big tech.

• Notable Quote:

  "Blockchain is going to allow us to own our own data, put it out on the web, monetize it in ways we want without having to just give it to Google."
  — Bill Inman [16:52]

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4. Entrepreneurship, Branding, and the AI Economy

• The Importance of Personal Branding:

  • In an era where AI indexes everything, strong personal and company brands become critical differentiators ([24:33]).
  • Opinion: 97–98% of entrepreneurs have weak branding and are at risk of falling behind in the AI-filtered market.

• Influencer & Human Skill Set:

  • Both speakers agree that, for the next generation, influence and peak human performance (e.g., sports, unique skills) will have lasting value ([25:30]).
  • Anecdote: Futurist James Tagg encourages his own children to become influencers and athletes—"innately human things" that AI cannot fully replicate yet.

• Quote:

  "Humans are going to look at other humans and basically go, who are you and what's your brand and what do you stand for?"
  — Bill Inman [26:40]

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5. Digital Twins as Content Creators

• AI Twins in Content Production:

  • Bill Inman uses his own AI twin to host shows, freeing himself from the camera and expanding reach ([28:22]).
  • Opportunity for introverts or content-shy professionals to build a digital presence via a photorealistic, AI-driven avatar.

• Process:

  • Users can create a basic AI twin in minutes with photo, audio sample, and documents ([19:52]).

• Quality of AI Content:

  • Inman curates his AI twin’s output for accuracy, but notes the generated content is increasingly lifelike ([30:06]).

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6. Business Models & Valuation in the AI Age

• Business Fundamentals:

  • Tech and AI companies (e.g., OpenAI, Nvidia) see extreme valuations, sometimes disconnected from traditional revenue models ([21:43]).
  • Major corporations (e.g., Amazon) focus on advertising margin rather than just products.

• Advice to Aspiring AI Entrepreneurs:

  • Three pillars of AI: compute power (hardware), algorithms (models), and training data (content).
  • Compute power: Too expensive, dominated by giants.
  • Algorithms: Market is saturated.
  • Training data: The “Blue Ocean”—collect, curate, and monetize unique, niche data sets ([37:39]).

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7. Practical Steps & Immediate Implementation

• Building Your Own Twin:
  • Entrepreneurs and leaders should immediately begin collecting, organizing, and storing all digital content to fuel an AI twin ([39:10], [40:10]).
  • Applied example: Use an AI twin to serve as a real estate expert for specific markets, enabling scalable, automated engagement with leads worldwide.

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8. Vision: Democratizing AI, Empowering People

• Bill Inman's Legacy Goal:

  • “2 billion AI twins” empowering individuals to own, control, and benefit from their data ([41:00]).
  • Aims to counterbalance the concentration of AI power in Big Tech; “Power back to the people.”

• Adoption & Generational Challenge:

  • Adoption barrier for older generations; viral growth and ease-of-use are key to widespread acceptance ([42:36]).
  • Viral challenge: Encourage leaders, influencers, and all users to create and share their AI twins.

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9. Personal Reflections

• Bill Inman’s Personal Goals: ([43:48])
  • Be a better listener, help others succeed, stay healthy, lead by example.
• Family Goals:
  • Prepare his daughter and loved ones for AI’s impact. Fun fact: His daughter’s initials are “AI.”
• Business Goal:
  • Achieve the “2 billion twins” vision for mass empowerment.
• End-of-Life Reflection:
  • Inman hopes to be remembered as someone who “did everything…for the benefit of others and not just for yourself” ([45:27]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI’s Societal Impact:

  “It’s going to make a lot of jobs obsolete...but it’s going to create more millionaires and wealth than the history of humanity has ever seen.”
  — Bill Inman [09:38]

• On Personal Branding for the Next Generation:

  “They need to be an influencer and...good at sports because those are innately human things.”
  — Bill Inman quoting James Tagg [26:34]

• On Democratizing AI:

  "My legacy is I want to give that power back to the people...the legacy will be getting to 2 billion twins."
  — Bill Inman [41:00]

• On Lessons for the Afterlife:

  "You just left everything out there and did everything you can to be the best you could...and you did it for the benefit of others and not just for yourself."
  — Bill Inman [45:27]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:04] – Legacy digital twins for deceased loved ones
• [07:10] – Explaining ANI, AGI, and ASI
• [09:38] – The future job market & society with ASI
• [15:54] – Blockchain and data ownership
• [19:52] – How to create your own AI twin
• [25:30] – Influencers, branding, and future-proof skills
• [28:22] – AI twins as content creators for introverts
• [37:39] – Advice for AI entrepreneurs: Invest in training data
• [41:00] – Inman’s legacy: 2 billion AI twins
• [43:48] – Personal, family, and business goals
• [45:27] – On being remembered for helping others

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Tone & Style

The conversation is visionary, candid, and energetic, balancing technical explanations with real-world applications, emotional stories, business strategy, and actionable advice. Both speakers maintain a friendly, optimistic, and slightly irreverent tone, with moments of humor and earnest reflection.

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For more information or to connect with Bill Inman, find him on any social channel: "Bill Inman". To explore Twin Protocol, visit twinprotocol.com.

Transcript

[Bill Inman]

So what are you telling your kids to do? Because you're here, you are, you're like, you have like a 10 year old and a 13 year old and here you are foremost front end of the previous tech revolution and you're literally growing brains as computer processors, which is weird, but that's where, that's where he is. He's like, look, I'm. This, is this replies to your story? I'm telling my, my kids they need to be an influencer and they need to be good at sports because those are innately human things.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Welcome to another episode of Coffees. Bill, thanks for jumping on the show.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, what a great int. Thanks for having me here, Joseph. Nice to be here with you.

[Joseph Shalaby]

You know, it's still not sufficient. Bill, you're changing the game in the AI space. I'm excited to have this discussion with you and if you want just to give people a quick 2000 foot overview of what is it that you do and what does your organization do and how can people benefit from.

This today's show?

[Bill Inman]

Well, Joseph, as you know, because you're a media innovator and you've really used the tools that everything that the Internet provides and social to affect a lot of people's lives. In a similar way, technology is continuing to move real fast, specifically around AI and the world is changing more rapidly than other than ever. So we created twin protocol not only for the legacy use case that you talked about, being able to talk to your even deceased loved ones, in some cases we could talk about that, but also for people to be able to take part in the AI economy which is going to be trillions of new money and people don't know how to access. So we're really passionate about bringing our technology, AI avatars blockchain to the world to give people the opportunity to adapt to this massive change that's coming. So that's why we created a twin protocol, Joseph.

[Joseph Shalaby]

And you know, recently I've seen several other applications that have come out with being able to talk to your deceased loved ones. I feel like setting up a deceased loved one twin would take a lot of work, especially with the lack of data that you could provide or feed the avatar.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, one thing that people don't have a lot of these days is they don't know what data to feed into their AI. It's a new problem. So it's not something that people have dealt with for a long time. But I'll give you an example of one. We call them legacy twins. These are twins that basically maybe the person's not around or it's your grandmother and a gentleman that works with us. His name's Curtis. His dad, Gene flew, was the first presidential helicopter pilot. Now, Gene passed about seven years ago and he had a book. He had book about stories about flying Nixon and flying Carter and flying Ford and flying Kennedy. So we ingested his book and we had some old video footage of him from like seven years ago. And you're now able to tell him, hey, tell me a story about Nixon flying in a helicopter. What happened in the White House the day you flew Nixon off the lawn? And he was doing the peace signs, which he was. He was that pilot in that picture. So it's pretty amazing because his son can talk to him again and relive all those stories. So I think it's really important as time goes on that we start to capture all these stories from our grandmother, our grandfather, our families, and put those into an AI so that legacy can live on and for generations and generations they can experience all that wisdom.

[Joseph Shalaby]

That's so cool. And I'm excited to start to play with that concept as well. For those deceased loved ones that have passed on me, I don't know how emotional I'll get listening to their voices again, but you know, yeah, it'll be.

[Bill Inman]

It'Ll be quite actually pretty. I knew Gene, the gentleman we talked about. I was pretty emotional just talking to him because he was a, he was my best friend's dad and I hadn't talked with him for a long time. And being able to interact with him, you know, kind of got emotional for me and he's not even similar was the experience.

Well, you know, it's, it's obviously AI is limited and emotionally how it can look on camera, it's getting better and better every day. It's a bit scary, but just being able to have a one to one interaction with him with questions that I was asking, it's a trip. It's very, it's very similar to talking to somebody in real life.

[Joseph Shalaby]

It's just going to keep getting better and better and in 10 years you're really going to feel like you're sitting with that person.

[Bill Inman]

Whether it be a hologram, a humanoid robot, talking to your car. A lot of things are happening that are going to be different than we've experienced before in the coming years.

[Joseph Shalaby]

In some ways that's exciting because, you know, I'll always be able to nag my kids.

[Bill Inman]

Like they want that. Yeah, yeah, you'll be around to, you know, I, you know, for These fan for I was talking to a lot of family offices recently and they want to pass wisdom and finances. And you have this great transfer from baby boomers over to younger generations because a lot of baby boomers are retiring or passing away. So these family offices are really excited because they want to share the wealth that they've built, but they also want to share their foundation, their mission, their goals, their values. And generations that follow will be able to talk to, you know, the, the great grandfather who created all the wealth and said, look, I want you to really understand how we did this and how it benefits the family. There's so many use cases.

[Joseph Shalaby]

And to impart that wisdom is really priceless, especially for generations to come, because the wisdom is timeless. Now let me ask you a couple questions. Before Twin, you launched and exited multiple ventures. Was there a turning point where you really felt pulled to build this new vertical of AI Twin, or what is it that really drew you to this?

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, I've always been drawn. So, quick background on me. I've raised about $200 million for startup companies that I've started. And I'm talking idea stage, I'm not talking about series A, series B, later stage companies. And for the most part they've been in human capital management and human performance. I've done some sports stuff and things like that, but I've always been enthralled with how can we leverage technology to make our lives better, to have a better career, to have more opportunity. And when I found blockchain in 2015, the first thing I did is I started to put resumes on chain. 70% of resumes have fake information, but when you put them in blockchain, so it can't be modified because it lives on different servers and you can't just go in and change it. There's what's called an immutable record. We put resumes on chain and then people could go check to see if a resume had something different than it had yesterday. So you couldn't add five years experience or this vertical. So using Blockchain and then naturally coming to AI, which, which I've been involved with since 2015 and has exploded since ChatGPT was launched by OpenAI in the past couple years, it just naturally leads you in this direction because we're creating an intelligence greater than us and people need to understand what it is. A lot of people don't understand what's coming with AI. People need to understand what it is and they need to be able to use it in their own lives. So I'm really passionate about that. People owning their own data and then. And then using it in their lives on a daily basis.

[Joseph Shalaby]

You said something that really like is thought provoking. You say a lot of people don't understand what's happening with AI and what's coming with AI. What do you think is coming?

[Bill Inman]

If you go to the mission of OpenAI, which is ChatGPT, I think that's a household word now, right? Everybody knows ChatGPT, OpenAI, it's the fastest, fastest app to get 800 million users ever. And their mission is they want to achieve artificial general intelligence. So we're not there yet. Let me explain what it is. We're in an era right now of artificial narrow intelligence. Hey, AI, count this for me. Something narrow. Draw this for me, write this for me, edit this for me, make this contract. That's called narrow AI. The next phase of AI. And there's been many scientists and futurists that have talked about this one. His name is Ray Kurzweil. He wrote the book the Singularity Is near, and most recently the Singularity is Nearer. He talks about artificial General Intelligence. This is when AI is as knowledgeable or smart as one person. So you have an AI equal to one person. It could then be the best engineer, it could be the best marketer, it could even be the best surgeon, obviously using different Iot devices and things. So the mission of OpenAI is artificial General Intelligence, creating an intelligence that's as smart as a human. There's one more phase beyond this called asi, Artificial super intelligence. And this is when AI is as smart as the entire world all at once and just ripping out Nobel Prize winning ideas every second. That could change. Cure cancer, new forms of fusion, what have you, flying cars, whatever the case may be. So people don't understand, all of this is happening in the next five to 10 years. So with electricity, it gradually grew. From the late 1800s till about 1930, only 30% of US homes had electricity. That was a slow build. This is something we're talking about as fundamental as electricity. In the next five years. People don't know how to work it into their life, their business. They don't understand how it's going to impact their jobs. So I'm dedicated to helping them.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Kind of sounds scary. With artificial super intelligence. I never really heard that word, artificial general intelligence. I mean, what will AGI and ASI do to employment in general? If you have artificial superintelligence and it's solving global problems, you know, what does that do to every different, you know, economy. What does that do to the same.

[Bill Inman]

Thing that electricity did? Electricity obviously changed from an agrarian society into the industrial revolution and then beyond. Obviously electricity is the foundation for this conversation we're having right now. Without it, we couldn't have it. So it gets embedded into the fabric of society. And listen, there's still farmers, of course, say there's vertical farming and there's massive agrarian operations and there's Monsanto and then there's people that just grow food in their backyard. So society changed with electricity, but it had time, you know, it had a hundred years to change. We're talking about 10 years now. So it's, everything's compressed. So what it's going to do to jobs is it's going to make a lot of jobs obsolete. It's already doing that to some degree, but it's going to create more millionaires and wealth than the history of humanity has ever seen. So anybody that's watching this, it's not a time to be scared. I get it. I get freaked out by a lot of this stuff too. It's a time to grab it and then get ahead of it and make it like the best time you've ever had, the best economic time for your own personal wealth ever. It's possible.

[Joseph Shalaby]

I mean, yeah, we're going to see publicly traded companies with one or two people soon, you know, and like running the whole company.

[Bill Inman]

We, they have said that for, you know, definitely we're going to have one person companies that are unicorns or billion dollar companies. But you know, we're also going to see Joseph companies run by AIs. So you could educate an AI on being the best podcaster, best media, most creative, fun, funny. And it could be running a company for you, talking to people about why they need to do it, taking them through the process, creating podcast ideas for you. And as we talked about actually before the call, a little bit making the content as an AI twin of you. So not only will humans one person companies be unicorns, AI run companies will be around as well and they will employ humans.

[Joseph Shalaby]

So when we have asi, that will certainly happen because now you have, you know, the smartest being ever times every human being in the world.

Kind of.

I, I didn't even know those terms. You educated me today. I thought we were just talking about the world of chat GPT. I didn't know they were trying to achieve AGI and asi. I thought we were.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Next up was augmented reality, but it seems like there's a lot more coming.

There'S.

[Bill Inman]

A lot more coming. And I urge you, if you're watching this, just go look at the mission of OpenAI and you'll see it right there, front and center, artificial general intelligence. So they're, they're taking data from the Internet. They basically borrowed the Internet. And they got really upset at OpenAI when DeepSeek, which was the Chinese company that basically took all their data and started a new model. It didn't have to train. It was a lot more easier to do, less power, because OpenAI done the heavy lifting. So these companies are sucking in all the data of whether it be patents or trademarks or they've already ingested most of YouTube and they, you know, there's a lot of legal battles now saying, wait, that was my data. Who owns that data? And some OpenAI and companies like that are winning, saying, well, this is derivative works. This is just like when you were in third grade. You learned something from your third grade teacher. You don't pay Pascal or Newton every time you use physics. And that's what they're saying the fight is for them, that they can leverage data. So our, our goal is to give people back their data so they own it. Like Joseph, you've created 50, 100 shows now. That's your data. It's the data of your podcast guests that's really valuable. There's a knowledge base there that would help people be successful in life if they could just access your twin. And you want to own that. You don't want to give it to OpenAI or Google or, or Anthropic or any of these companies. You want to own it so that you can share that.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Although they have it.

Every time you talk to Chat GPT about me, it can reference every single word. It's ref. It can references this specific podcast and everything we said in this podcast. So they have my data, and that's part of social AI indexing. Now. Every word you say on social media on a podcast is now indexed on these different AI platforms. It's on Grok, it's on Gemini, it's on, you know, they're aggregating all this data and now they're able to create and formulate opinions based on these social media platforms or podcast platforms or blog platforms that are referencing my content. It's, you know, did you know that? Do I want that?

[Bill Inman]

Do I have that?

[Joseph Shalaby]

No. I mean, well, listen, it helps. So we are now in a place where AI is a decision maker for humans. And if we are going to leverage ChatGPT for helping us make decisions the way we feed the out the. I don't know if it's an algorithm or AI. I don't know what the proper reference tool is for the data we're feeding the web, which then is aggregated on the AI platforms. But we now have to play by the rules of AI, which is feed the web your data, so that humans can make a proper or educated decision off of the indexing that the AI is pulling. So here we are, I have no choice, I gotta play by their rules. There's not like there's consent forms here to sign or, you know, omit. You just gotta just, you know, accept that AI now decides for humans and objectively.

Add all of your content on the web, knowing that you're gonna, it's gonna be indexed and it's gonna be used to eventually help your business.

Or. That's my theory.

[Bill Inman]

Well, that's one way. That's one way. I mean, I firmly believe that there's going to be a cancel culture against all this. Just, hey, take my data, take my brain. Tell me what, tell me when I need to eat pizza at seven at night. You tell me how to live life. I don't think that's the way it should be.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Well, I mean it's there now is because if, especially if you're looking at AI to help you with like your BMI or your, you know, to attain fitness goals, it's like, what should I eat, when should I eat? There's so many different devices already now telling you eat this, don't eat this, breathe this time, let me know what you know, send me your blood work, I'll tell you what to do.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, and a lot of that stuff is useful. I mean, you're a fit guy, so I imagine you use some of that stuff and it's useful to know, hey, I got to 11,000 or 15,000 steps today and my heart rate's at 140. And storing that and then getting personal advice, that's helpful and people need that, but that will not last. Okay, so once we reach, we talked about already, once we reach AGI and all of your data and everybody else's data is in an AGI system that's going to create a new trillion dollar company that basically tells you what to work and who's employing you and what to eat. So there's a new way. This is where blockchain comes in. So let's just talk really quickly about Blockchain. I'll keep it real simple. Okay. When you put this video on Streamyard, or YouTube. We've signed a user agreement and Google says we're storing it on our servers. We're going to give you a service where we distribute this to billions of people, hundreds of billions of people. I'm sorry, hundreds of millions of people. And, and we own it. So it's on their server. And Google can look into every single aspect of your, of your drive, of your docs, of your sheets, of your photos. And they have access to it. They just do so on Blockchain. However, when you store something on blockchain, this is true about Bitcoin, but it's also true about AI training. Data is what it's called when you store something on blockchain. It's fragmented and stored across multiple servers and you have to hack or unencrypt that file from all the computer, the consensus of the computers at once. So Blockchain is going to allow us to own our own data, put it out on the web, monetize it in ways we want without having to just give it to Google so they can have access to it. So that's a key technology here is blockchain, not just for crypto, but, but for storing our thoughts. And we're going to get away, Joseph, from basically posting on all these sites and we're going to own it. We're going to have open sites where this is done.

[Joseph Shalaby]

I don't know how that's going to happen or when that's going to happen. I would like to create my own AI twin. Take all of my content that I've published, all my blogs, all my podcasts, and have that AI twin then duplicate, you know, these shows or just create content without me even thinking about it based on all of my data that it has done and that's live. Now.

[Bill Inman]

We already have that technology that's. We have that at Twin Protocol now. We, for example, what we'll do. And I think we were happy to do this for you. And by the way, any of your, any of your users here who want to go to twin protocol.com and sign up, they could, you know, we could let you know to give them a free code or something, Joseph, after this, so they know to get started. So. Well, the simple thing we could do is we could take just your video from this particular call and we could put that and ingest that quote unquote into your twin. That's the video data. It's yours. You own it. And so it would look just like this call. It'd have your mannerisms, it'd have your hand up, it'd have you talking however you talk. Then we'd ingest one or all of your podcasts and that knowledge base is stored on chain on blockchain and people could start asking your twin photorealistic twin real time questions voice to voice about any of that knowledge. So Joseph, tell me about you. What do you do? I'm having this trouble in life, I'm having this trouble in business. From your knowledge base you would be able to guide them and we have that now.

[Joseph Shalaby]

That's really cool right now from the knowledge base we're aggregating from general, you know, AI chat. GPT is the latest one. Is that all my team's able to deduct and reason and create all my content etc. But we haven't got to where, where it's video. You know, we haven't been leveraging my knowledge base for video content specifically or you know, a 247 Joseph shall be AI avatar that's on standby for a Q and A or anything like that, which, which is exciting to know that we can do. I'd love to, you know, work on that probably immediately after this podcast. And how fast is a launch?

[Bill Inman]

Real quick. I mean, uh, it's real simple. So what, what you go to twin protocol, user goes to twin protocol, they sign up, they, they acquire an account, they upload just a simple picture of themselves, record three minutes of audio, put a few documents about themselves, maybe Even just their LinkedIn profile. Done. You got a twin that somebody can talk to right away on the alive on the Internet.

[Joseph Shalaby]

That's pretty cool.

[Bill Inman]

That's minutes.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get that going and you know, we'll let people talk to the Joseph shalaby twin on coffeesforclosers.com they love that. Yeah. And it's, I'm always, I love to be the kind of the pilot use case for a lot of our stuff now.

[Bill Inman]

Right.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Do you think some of your. So have all of your past ventures been in the tech space or in, you know, is this the first AI business that you've launched?

[Bill Inman]

I mean most of my businesses have been in the tech space. I for example, I've done some sports things. I work with the association of Volleyball Professionals. We started a youth.

A national youth program to help people get into the sport. My daughter played the sport, so I had an affinity for it and I was a two sport college athlete. So I love sports. So that's a bit of a derivative from that. I've been in the fashion industry My cousin created a company called Foot Pedals which was like little designer high heeled shoe things. A lot of your users or listeners probably know it and so I've been in that industry but much of what I've done has been in tech because it's so empowering and it helps so many people at scale. And of course the values of the companies, the multiples you get on companies that you build there can be extreme. There's some crazy valuations now in AI for example companies going from 1 trillion to 5 trillion Nvidia. So there's a lot of power in that from a business perspective and I just love it as well.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, I mean the Eida on a tech company is the most. It's like 10x or 20x any other company.

[Bill Inman]

Well, here's one for you. When OpenAI, when Microsoft invested in OpenAI, this is at the launch of ChatGPT 3.5 the multiple was 676 revenue which is off the chart Ridiculous. Right. So they barely had any revenue and they got dec a billion dollar valuations. And so there's a lot. And some people say we're in a bubble, a financial bubble and AI is driving that. It's quite possible actually because a lot of these companies have valuations that don't have fundamentals based upon how many customers you have and what's your gross revenue and are you profitable. Amazon did that long, you know, 20 year cycle where they weren't profitable at all. But obviously we know they changed the entire E commerce game and how people buy stuff so. But there is a lot of fluff in today's multiples and growing a company. But they're getting ridiculous valuations.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, Amazon just pivoted. I talked to another tech entrepreneur like and they really their, their revenue, believe it or not, you know where it's coming from is with ads now it's more profitable than their products.

[Bill Inman]

So yeah, that's all probably 100% margin there.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, it's a hundred. It's the. Yeah, it's mostly all margin other than payrolls and such and they have. And they basically he was explaining to me that the, and this is a big tech entrepreneur. He's just went, he just sold his publicly his ad company.

But he said that the products are basically just content.

That's all it is to get people to get companies to advertise on Amazon I'm like wow, Amazon. And I'm sure it's not nearly as hyper regulated as Meta and all these other platforms.

[Bill Inman]

Well you know on Amazon and We'll probably do a lot of shopping there. This the holiday season. This year you go on Amazon and the sponsored products are right up top and of course they know what you viewed before and they have all the metadata on you so they're able to serve up exactly what you want. And then people buy and many products, especially on Amazon, they're so commoditized now, like there's so many similar products and they're so inexpensive that it's hard to differentiate. So you really need to have a brand and this gets more and more important as AI comes around. You know this because you teach personal branding and it is so important for people really in any career to have a personal brand, to stand for something. Because what employers always want and what companies like Amazon want is they want you to bring a following, they want you to bring users to them too. And then people that can either buy or be a part of what they're doing. So having a brand is for advertising is so important because it gets people to spend their disposable income and beyond. As you know, in the US we spend way beyond and go into debt for consumerism. But that's just how it is here.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Now my argument, and correct me if I'm wrong, is like in the age of AI indexing, personal branding is.

Imperative for any company just to survive just because of the decision making that AI is making for the consumers. And those that don't have any personal branding, which is pretty much 97%, 98% of entrepreneurs, they're, they're going to be left in the dust. And those that focus on branding are going to be the ones that grab all the market share and eat everybody's lunch. So I would, you know, venture to say that as we get to, you know, this artificial general AGI or asi, like your brand is the only thing you got, you know, be and, and as you continue to build your brand, you're going to be able to leverage AGI much more so than those that never started the process.

[Bill Inman]

So I, You're 100% right, Joseph. I mean you are dead on with that. So I, I, I got the pleasure to go to a dinner with a gentleman named James Tag. He A lot of the patents around touchscreen technology, which we have on our phones and on our watches, is him. So you, he, he, some people call him the inventor of the touchscreen. He's got a crazy new business, but I just mentioned it to let you know how far out he is. He actually takes stem cells and sends them to the Space station grows them for 10 days at the space station, sends them back to. Sends them back to Earth, and then they use those as organic computer processors. Brain cells as computer processors. This guy's name is James Tagg. So I'm like, what are you doing now? And that's science fiction. But the point was, the science fiction that's here, by the way, the point was I'm like, so what are you telling your kids to do? Because here you are, you have like a 10 year old and a 13 year old and here you are, foremost front end of the previous tech revolution and you're literally growing brains as computer processors, which is weird, but that's where he is. He's like, look, I'm. And this is replies to your story. I'm telling my kids that they need to be an influencer and they need to be good at sports because those are innately human things. Humans are going to look at other humans and basically go, who are you and what's your brand and what do you stand for? So even somebody that nature who is building tech companies is telling his own kids, you gotta be an influencer, you gotta do peak for peak human performance stuff, because that's what he believes in. And that blew me away because it shows you how important at least that gentleman says being an influencer is going to be. It's exactly what you're talking about with personal brand.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Wow, that just confirms so much of my theory about, you know, personal branding. And I've been telling some of my kids to do that. Some of my kids are already doing that. Some of my kids are kind of worried about the unnecessary notoriety that you get in public. I was just telling. I get it, my director here that, you know, like, I just went to coffee today and some guy just stopped me one with my kids, you know, like getting them breakfast and like, hey, I follow you, like, just threw me off, you know, like, like any. Yeah, that's what you wish for, huh? That's the only part that's what you want. Yeah, you don't, you don't like the un. You know, just when you're out with your family just getting stopped, that's kind of annoying. But you just have to do it. It's part of the game, you know, it's part of the pro. And now, you know, with, with where we're entering with AGI and now what you just confirmed in this conversation, it's like you must, people must be able to acknowledge you and know who you are, know the services you provide and the Products you provide because that's the world that we're in. And you know, without that knowledge base, you know, you're kind of like you're competing in a very old fashioned way.

[Bill Inman]

Totally old fashioned. You know, we're using the Internet now. Cold calling is dead. That's just a few decades old. So we're entering a new phase and 30% of the world are introverts, right? And you know how many people that want to get started in a personal brand, they fiddle around with lighting and cameras and they want to make sure they look right and they put up a green screen and who cares? So but the thing about AI twins, which we started the conversation with is my AI twin runs five shows for me. Just go to any Bill Inman, social media, X, Instagram, Facebook, it's doing the show. Now I'm not an introvert, but I wouldn't say I love being in front of a camera. 2, 4, 7. It's not like the Truman show for me. Many people though, they cannot get in front of a camera. Well, guess what, your twin can make content for you now with photorealistic and you don't even have to be in front of a camera anymore. So for those people that are just totally disenfranchised because they're scared to death of being in front of a camera, all good. Now create a twin, have that twin do shows for you. Educate your twin to be the best. Everybody on watching this is the best in the world at something. Train gliding real estate professional in Las Vegas. They can make all these videos now without being in front of a camera.

[Joseph Shalaby]

That's great. And I wonder the quality of the, of the twin, the caliber of the content it will create in, in comparison to, you know, them doing it themselves. Now those that are introverts don't want to get in front of a camera that just aren't good in front of a camera. Obviously they're going to win with the digital twin because now they don't got to deal with it. But you know, if we look at the Bill Inman show and I know that a lot of it's audio, we're talking full visual mannerisms, everything's in play there. Right.

[Bill Inman]

Again, go to Bill Inman on Instagram. Watch the shows. My twin crates. Sometimes I'm blown away because it looks and sounds like me, there's no doubt. And I don't say any of it. I don't write any of it, I don't say any of it. It just takes from my brain, my twin brain, my Vault and creates the content. I give it a subject now, I curate it and I edit it because I don't want my twin saying something stupid on my behalf. So I do approve it, give it the blue check, but it's not me. It looks just like me. And it's getting better and better every week.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Wow. You know, a lot of this is refreshing, especially as we start our next new venture, our media company. And we want to offer these services to folks that don't are terrified of building content or creating content or don't even want to deal with all this. So you know me as an entrepreneur. I see another billion dollar company that I can control with a small amount of.

Personnel. I don't need like 500 people on this employee with this new venture. I need just probably a dozen and I could launch them. A billion dollar company.

[Bill Inman]

Well, you know what I'm excited about for you and you're really good at is first of all, you're super creative, you make fun content and a lot of the, I wouldn't say my content. My content is AGI and quantum computing. So I can't really do a bunch of dad jokes about that and make it fun. But, but what you're really good at and what you can help people with and your users and listeners can do this too is you're getting them into AI and you're showing them how to make all these things and create this around their personal brand and they can take that to the nth degree. So you're teaching people to teach others and that's so valuable because the word isn't out what AGI is, what artificial superintelligence is. We didn't even talk about the Singularity, which is the book title that we talked about earlier, where AI becomes self replicating and has its own goals and mission beyond asi. So I think what you're able to do here is get people started on the track to understanding that AI is for you, you can do it, here's how to do it. And I think you're going to have a really big business helping people like that.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, I'm actually meeting with my team, we're launching a school and skol, you know, a school channel where people could subscribe to and all that. And we're going to be doing, you know, we're teach where we're teaching folks how to build their brand, et cetera. One of the components we're going to add, and this would be probably a main framework is going to be the AI component. And I don't know if my AI avatar will teach the class. I don't know if I'll teach the class. I don't know. I don't know. You know, Huh. I don't know if we'll stand next and teach it together.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, well, I mean, right here in my office here, I've got a humanoid robot that I've been on stage with. Sophia the robot, who's really well known, and I've been on stage with the robot doing it. It might not be your avatar, might be you. And a humanoid robot might be your avatar, might be a hologram, might be a chatbot. Your brain might be integrated into somebody else's app, which you'll get paid on.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Which we don't have holograms yet with the AI integration. Right. Do you have that technology?

[Bill Inman]

There's hologram proof of concepts, I would call them, that are small enough devices where you could project like R2D2, Princess Leia type stuff. If you remember that in Star Wars. Yeah, but we're not at scale yet. But what you will find and is impressive and still really young is the new metaglasses have a screen inside of your glasses.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, yeah, those, those just came out. Augmented reality.

[Bill Inman]

I'm here in Vegas and I got it at the Wind. They had a pop up shop and that overlay that's in your eye can be. Will be eventually. Where it's not a hologram, but it's an overlay, a digital overlay. It looks like somebody standing in front of you and talking to you.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Did you get them?

[Bill Inman]

All right. Be weird because it looks like you're talking to nobody. But.

[Joseph Shalaby]

So you, you purchased them?

[Bill Inman]

I did. I bought them like the first week. The new meta version glasses that. And it has this green overlay in your right eye and they have a wristband that you wear and then you kind of use your, these kind of gestures to go left. Right. And I've been trying to figure out what the hell am I going to use this for besides looking like Marty McFly? Because they're like huge black Ray Ban glasses. And I do find it useful. I like to walk and talk on conference calls. So I put the glasses on and in a WhatsApp or in a Facebook messenger, the people who I'm talking to can see what I see. So you could be really useful. Like, hey, I want to show you what's happening with my plumbing. And you can wear those glasses and you can have your hands in there. So it's cool for active communication and. But don't Wear it while you're driving. I did. I was driving it the first night. I'm like, oh, shoot. There was like too much going on here, like right in front of my face.

[Joseph Shalaby]

So. Yeah, so the use cases for those aren't really pronounced just yet, but I'm sure, I mean, Mark Zuckerberg, those, he was so excited about those. I just thought that's the end of the cell phone.

[Bill Inman]

You're not gonna, you're not gonna pick up your phone and have three screens and you're gonna basically have glasses on and the screen's gonna be in front of your eyes and your hands are gonna be free. There's not gonna be cell phones in the traditional sense in very, very short time. We're talking about years.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Cell phones will be obsolete soon. Huh?

[Bill Inman]

Why would you want it in your hand when it's right in front of your eyes?

[Joseph Shalaby]

I just don't think, you know, pretty ladies are going to want to wear big old glasses.

Contact lenses. It's going to give me contact lenses. You know, like we've gotten away. I mean, I don't know aesthetically, I don't know how I'd look in those if I'm going to be walking around with them.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, I'm sure it'd be fine. But they have the Oakley version, which is like the big sports glasses, the big huge ones. And then they have the traditional meta glasses, but they're thicker, so it just looks a little bit bigger.

[Joseph Shalaby]

The Oakland.

[Bill Inman]

Of course, they're. When you. That they're meta.

[Joseph Shalaby]

No, they're not AGI yet.

[Bill Inman]

They're not AGI.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, they're not the Augment. I mean, I mean Augment. They're not. I'm sorry, AGI. All these terms.

[Bill Inman]

Augmented reality.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Reality.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, they are. They are. It is augmented reality. So if you've got, if you've got a map in front of your face, then you're, you're on a, you're walking path, you're riding a bike and it's showing you where to turn. That's augmented reality.

[Joseph Shalaby]

So wait, wait, the Oakley ones are augmented reality?

[Bill Inman]

No, those are just tracking devices. I haven't tried those on yet, but I don't think they have the built in screen because they have the thin like.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, the augmented reality. And you know who was the first company to roll out augmented reality glasses? Wasn't meta. I actually did. I'm sponsored by.

Snapchat. Snapchat was the first company to do it.

[Bill Inman]

I love those glasses. Those were awesome. That one, Yeah. I mean they were the first to put the camera inside of the thing and then you connect it to snap. And they were way ahead of their time. And they should have ran with that.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, they should have. And they're. But they're very expensive. They're like, I don't know, $10,000 and they're very ugly. They're massive. Yeah, but they're, they're just augmented reality.

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, they were, they were a leader there commercially. You know, there was other companies. You know, I live in Manhattan Beach. A friend of mine, Joe, had a company, was huge computer you wore on your belt and it had big glasses. But the, the commercial version where you actually could wear them in society. They were really, they were, they were early.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Yeah, they were, they were the first to drop it. Now what advice do you think you'd give to a founder who wants, you know, to be disruptive in the AI space and feels like they're just an underdog because this is just the most hyper competitive space right now.

And it's.

[Bill Inman]

Over saturated and it's beyond a buzzword. So AI is three things. It's compute power, the Nvidia, the tsmc, the Oracles of the world, Stargate as a project in the us, China, building data centers, compute power, big moat, really hard to get into the compute power. And I aren't going to be able to go start a chip manufacturing business today. We have to raise a billion dollars. So then the second part of AI is algorithms and that is your GPTs, your narrow AIs, your embedded inside of even Siri is a version of an algorithm and you can, that's where the glut is right? There is tons of everybody and their mom has an algorithm to sell you. Now we're going to help you, make you productive with this and your business productive with that. And then the third part of AI is training data and that's the part that I'm in. That's the part I think is Blue Ocean. Because what's happened is the algorithm companies, the LLMs, are just sucking in training data, taking everybody's stuff, including all your podcasts, as you've seen yourself, owning your own training data, making that personal, that's a business for an entrepreneur. And then being able to have very succinct and accurate and narrow data for a business or a person. So I like the training data side. Algorithms saturated, compute power, too big of a moat. Training data wide open. That's my advice.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Now how would I as an entrepreneur take my training data and Leverage it and monetize it.

[Bill Inman]

Well, we're going to do this exactly for you and maybe for any of your listeners. Take all of your podcasts, put them on chain so you own it. Then you have interfaces to that, an avatar. We also do explainer videos. So we could say, Joseph, explain to me the best way that you come up with creative scripts or you go out in the field and you come up with ideas. And then an explainer video where it's a hand drawn kind of cartoony thing, immediately would say, here's the eight steps to have great content. Do it. So those are interfaces. So for an entrepreneur, take all of your training data and if you're not collecting it, start collecting it. And if you want to innovate in a space, if you want to be the best AI real estate agent in Newport beach, get every bit of data on Newport beach that is publicly available, put that in your twin and have your twin start selling real estate in Newport Beach. What do you mean? It means that I'm a wealthy individual. I just made a hundred, I just made a million dollars on bitcoin. I live in Mena. I want to move to one of the nicest areas in the us, Newport Beach. Who do I talk to? They go to the Joseph Shalabee, Newport Beach Real Estate AI. They learn all about the boats and the Christmas light show and all the fun stuff in Newport, what it's like. And you sell your AI sells a house to somebody coming out of the Middle East. So you educate your AI on your business or the business you want to be in, and you put it out there to the world and it becomes an influencer. What we just talked about, it's everything you're doing and I'm doing. Your AI becomes the influencer for you driving business. Start with that.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Wow.

I mean, easier said than done. But I guess using your AI twin, you're able to launch pretty quickly. Now.

What do you think the ultimate end goal is with your legacy here with Twin, what's the ultimate legacy play here?

[Bill Inman]

To make the world a better place where people own their own AI and we're not subject to whatever big tech, powerful ASI or AGI. It's very powerful. We're creating a new species on the planet that's as intelligent as us. We're talking about in the next 20 years. So my legacy is I want to give that power back to the people. I want people to own all that data and aggregate it and the people will create their own AGI so that they have a say. In how they make money and if it's beneficial to the environment or not, and so on. So my legacy is going to be, and you and I are friends with Pavan Agarwal, who is the founder of Angel AI, and I partner with him. Our goal is 2 billion AI twins and that's what we're going to do. So the legacy will be getting to 2 billion twins. Everybody owns their own data. They participate in the new multi trillion dollar market.

[Joseph Shalaby]

It's a great goal and it's like power back to the people. It's kind of like this agenda that's fighting, you know, something that's ultimately somewhat. It could be evil or if in the wrong hands is evil. And if the people take control of this and understand this, it's very powerful. The biggest problem I see with this is one thing, and I talk to Pavan about this all the time, even is even within my own company, is adoption. How do we get adopted, especially at scale, especially with people outside of Gen Alpha, you know, like or Gen Z or Gen X, like millennials will have a hard time even adopting.

[Bill Inman]

Well, I would do this as a challenge for us and then for you directly to all of your fan base.

Get people their own AI twin where they own the data, right? So all you got to do is get people involved. So start to get people their own AI twin and start to put the content out there and that goes viral. So you want to get adoption. Let's get your AI twin up and running so that it's educating people 24, 7, 365 in 40 languages. So you're now talking Arabic and Mandarin and then you're teaching people how to get their own AI twin and do the same for whatever they love so it can go viral. This is all blue ocean. Nobody's done this yet. Get people their AI twin, Teach them how to have their own AI twin and that at the Angel AI app again on Agarwal, we actually pay people for introducing people to AI. So it's all wide open. Have your AI twin go viral for you and teach it to have other people's AI twin go viral and then you'll get adoption.

[Joseph Shalaby]

All uncharted waters. All very exciting stuff. Couple last questions before we wrap up. This is about your goals. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself? A family goal you have for your family and a goal that you have for your business?

[Bill Inman]

Yeah, well, my thanks for the questions. I appreciate that stuff. So my personal goal is, look, I'm just trying to get better every day and you know, I've been blessed to be a part of really exciting businesses and just the day to day tactics, man. I'm trying to be a better listener. I'm trying to put myself in other people's shoes and, and so I'm really trying, working as hard as possible and I'm not bad at this to care about other people and help them reach their goals. So that's, that's what I want. I also want to stay fit because it's such an exciting time and I want to be healthy and I want to lead by example. So that's me for the business. You know, I've already stated that our goal is to get 2 billion twins. So that's like a, there's a metric for you right there. Like we know exactly where we're going. So now how do we get there? We need influencers, we need communities, we need groups and, and from a family perspective, I am an only child. I have one daughter. Her name's Alexia Inman. Her initials are AI. We did not plan it like that. And I want to make sure that I can leave the world a better place for her so she doesn't have no clue about this massive change that's coming. I'm on the front end of this because I love my family, I love my friends. I'm trying to find as much as possible because I want to be ready. And so from a family perspective, I just want to make sure that my family's ready for this all and everybody else, you know, my friends too.

[Joseph Shalaby]

So.

Perfect. Last question. Especially like with all this stuff happening with AI and I know you want to leave the place, the world a better place, but when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?

[Bill Inman]

Well, I hope, I hope he would say or she or it, I hope they would say, man, you just left everything out there and did everything you can to be the best you could while you had your time living your life.

And you did it for the benefit of others and not just for yourself. I really hope that's my review. I hope I can live up to that every day. It's hard because life's challenges and Maslow's hierarchy of needs and fighting the day to day challenges of life can take you away from that. But I would, I would be honored to give that kind of effort to help others.

[Joseph Shalaby]

God bless you. God bless your efforts continue to show people the light in this ever changing, you know, rapidly changing world of AI. Thank you, Bill. For joining the show. If people want to connect with you, how do they find you?

[Bill Inman]

Bill Inman B I L L I N M A N every social channel. So that again, personal branding. I'm with you on that. You're a master at it. You're doing a fantastic job helping to.

[Joseph Shalaby]

Get better with your health.

[Bill Inman]

Hey, twins, man, let's go. This is what we do. And I know that you're going to be a key person in this whole movement because you're an entrepreneur who wants to work at scale and add zeros to everything you do. So I get it.

[Joseph Shalaby]

That massive scale. And I feel like I'm just being beginning my journey. I'm going to be launching various schools, various platforms, various educational platforms, various social platforms. So, you know, I'm really, really excited about this partnership with you. I'm really excited about everything that you're doing. God bless you. I hope we dominate together. And thank you so much. I look forward to having you back on the show.

[Bill Inman]

Sa.