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The Future of Architecture Is Carbon-Negative ft. Kevin Kennon | Coffeez with Joe Shalaby
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- [00:01]
Kevin Kennon
We lived, I, you know, we still do actually, you know, a few blocks from ground zero, the World Trade Center. Within about a week, my wife and I decided we would go down and take a look at the site. And what we saw was just complete bedlam. You know, people climbing fences and guys hawking World Trade center souvenirs. And, you know, I just thought there had to be a better way, more dignified way. So I, I developed a design and pitched it to the mayor and they, they thought it was great and they said conditioning, you got to find the money to build it. And so we did and we built the temporary viewing platform at ground zero.
- [00:41]
Podcast Host
Welcome to another episode of Coffees. You know, it is truly, you know, beyond innovative. But please explain to the audience what is carbon negative mean in building and what do you do at, you know, just give us a 10,000 foot overview?
- [00:58]
Kevin Kennon
Sure. Well, I think a lot of people might be surprised that over 40% of global greenhouse gases, that those emissions come from the built environment, some from buildings and cities. And so many of us who are in the building industry, you know, have developed a sense of responsibility about that. And that goes beyond just making sure that we build buildings that do their best to minimize those greenhouse emissions, but also to build safely, to build lean and efficiently. And so there's just basically a whole movement out there of determined individuals who are changing the landscape of how we build. And it's exciting thing to be a part of.
- [01:57]
Podcast Host
Beautiful. Now, you know, you've been such a legend in architecture in general. What really drew you to architecture in the first place? What was it that really was the catalyst for it?
- [02:10]
Kevin Kennon
Well, my father was an architect, so I, I guess I grew up in that environment and he was a great guy. He was very. And also ahead of his time in terms of designing buildings that were environmentally responsive. And so I guess I have that in me. And you know, I grew up in just south of Los Angeles and I think one of the first things that I loved about being in that environment was those crazy houses that were always built on the side of cliffs. They look like they were barely being supported and I thought those things were so cool. So there's something about living on the edge, I guess, that drew me to explore architecture. And it's just continue to be a very fulfilling career ever since
- [03:05]
Podcast Host
now. When did you start Beyond Zero?
- [03:09]
Kevin Kennon
Recently. Beyond Zero is actually a real estate development company and we specialize in wilderness hotels and resorts. And when you build anything in extreme environments, you have to build with nature. You can't just come in there and bulldoze things because conservation is a big part of what we do.
- [03:35]
Podcast Host
I see. So you still have your normal architecture firm that does the big.
- [03:42]
Kevin Kennon
That's right, yeah. A separate firm. I wear lots of hats. That's part of my daily existence. Um, yeah, so I have a separate firm that just does architecture and I have another firm that just does real estate development which is beyond zero
- [03:59]
Podcast Host
now. What do you think the future looks like with, with, you know, with the strategy, your, your building strategy now, now to decarbonize current builds. What does that future look like? What motivated you decarbonize and create, you know, a healthier building?
- [04:19]
Kevin Kennon
Well, yeah, so first of all, what's, what's really exciting is there are so many incredible attack oriented, green, green technology oriented startups and companies out there. They're doing incredible things. So you know, the, the, the, in a way the, the, you know, the, the horses left the barn, the genie's out of the bottle. You know, people are doing this and, and I spend a great deal of my time connecting with all of these innovative types of companies and some of them you really should get on your show because they're doing incredible things and, and that. So our world is changing and it's going to change rapidly, I think, especially with, with AI already, but certainly with robotics in terms of how we build and, and how we build in extreme environments.
- [05:16]
Podcast Host
You mentioned something and that's obviously a very hot topic. Will robotics completely change the way you're building right now? And when do you think robotics will be implemented in decarbonization building strategies?
- [05:31]
Kevin Kennon
It already is. I mean, so robots aren't just simply, you know, the, the, the little, little animated men, you know, they're everywhere. They're already in all of our machinery and manufacturing. And so with the trend that we're going to see more and more is that buildings are going to be built almost like Legos. They're individual pieces that are manufactured in controlled environments in factories and they're standardized and then shipped to the site and assembled some of them, you know, entire components. Like if you're doing hotels, you might have an entire room that's actually shipped on the, on a flatbed and then kind of plugged in to those environments. And so, so that's, that's, that's already happening and it's only going to continue to accelerate because the cost to build is still prohibitively high. And, and you know, that's something that all of us are concerned about.
- [06:38]
Podcast Host
So you know, in residential housing that's considered manufactured Housing?
- [06:45]
Kevin Kennon
Yes. I mean, the people call it manufactured housing. I, I'm simply saying that the less in terms of prefabricated homes and think more in terms of standardized components of buildings that are, you know, built off site and then delivered to the site and installed, and so the less time that you have on site itself, that's where a lot of the expense comes in. That's where a lot of the headaches come in. Also. It's a safety issue as well. You want to, we want to design safely so that that type of production is going to change and, and I think rapidly change what we do.
- [07:36]
Podcast Host
You know, there's so many theories about mitigating the cost to build one of them. And I saw this and I don't know how viable it is. 3D printing building soon or 3D printing houses, they're talking about that, that as an option and it's been done, but I don't know what kind of standards they, they are. You know, people are looking for so many solutions to solve the housing crisis because cost of building is astronomical. Labor wages have also like tripled and you know, imports are just getting more expensive. Lumber is just through the roof. I mean, every, everything just tripled and there's just not enough houses for people.
- [08:22]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [08:24]
Podcast Host
Does what you do solve for the housing dilemma or it's just purely, you know, a commercial endeavor?
- [08:36]
Kevin Kennon
You know, specifically, we're, we're trying to push the envelope on how you build in extreme environments. I mean, wilderness environments. You're talking about, you know, edges of cliffs and rocky beaches and, you know, in far flung places all over the world. But the, the way in which we do it has a lot of real world applications to helping solve what is a huge problem, which is housing and the affordability of housing. So anything that we can do to start to revisit, you know, how we make things and how we can do things more efficiently and safely. I think all of that goes into ultimately how we are actually going to solve a problem of, you know, how do we take care of ourselves.
- [09:38]
Podcast Host
Now if you were to look back at all the projects that you've done, you know, is there one project or, or a moment that you, that, that truly put you on the map, where you're at now, Something, something that really catapulted you to this level of notoriety that you have now in this space?
- [09:59]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah, I will. Again, I've been fortunate to design, you know, very complex buildings all over the world, you know, skyscrapers, et cetera. But the one project that complet. Changed My life was at right after 9, 11. We lived. I, you know, we still do actually. You know, a few blocks from Ground Zero, the World Trade Center. And within about a week my wife and I decided we would go down and take a look at the site. And what we saw was just complete bedlam. You know, people climbing fences and guys hawking World Trade center souvenirs. And you know, I just thought there had to be a better way, a more dignified way. So I, I developed the design and pitched it to the mayor and they, they thought it was great and they said with one condition, you got to find the money to build it. And so we did and we, we built the temporary viewing platform at Ground Zero. You know, I kind of controlled a, a local scaffolding company to, to sort of put it together at cost. And it was all made of, you know, plywood and, and you know, prosaic New York City scaffolding components. And it was, it was an amazing experience and you know, one of the most fulfilling things I've done and more than likely will ever do.
- [11:28]
Podcast Host
Wow. So that, so that was one of the original viewing sites of Ground Zero, huh?
- [11:32]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [11:33]
Podcast Host
Before they built the buildings there.
- [11:35]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah, there was actually a deputy mayor had the idea of like where to locate it, which was really terrific. It was right next to St Paul's Chapel, which is a corner of the World Trade center complex that was remarkably unscathed. And behind it was a, a cemetery. Cemetery with about 300 foot tall sycamore trees there. And we, we located adjacent to that. And so it was an elevated platform. So you kind of ascended up to the, about 25ft up in the air and you couldn't hear a thing. It was, it was incredibly and almost eerily silent. You could just look over and see the devastation and at the same time you heard the silence rustling of the trees adjacent to you. So it was very profound thing to do and it was remarkable I think in terms of having that emotional impact and being able to understand the power of humility and humanity in the face of horror.
- [12:46]
Podcast Host
What a remarkable experience. And that really transcends way beyond your architecture. Fulfillment. Right.
- [12:54]
Kevin Kennon
The irony is I'm doing exactly the same thing. And in terms of how we're building these hotels, it's, it's very similar in terms of, you know, how it's put together and we're using a lot of wood, mass timber and cross laminated timber to, to build these. So it's, it, you know, everything I found in my life, everything I, I've done I've, and to some degree I've already done and just kind of red it over again and, and it changes in different environments. It's like, it's an amazing, an incredibly fulfilling enterprise.
- [13:40]
Podcast Host
Now I have to ask, you know, you're in one of the most competitive industries. It's a very brutal industry.
- [13:46]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [13:47]
Podcast Host
Pretty cutthroat. Now, being in an industry that's so hyper competitive and only if there's only a few renowned architects and there's so many people trying to be a brand in architecture. Right. What's a myth or what's something they don't tell you about the climb in that industry?
- [14:10]
Kevin Kennon
About the client. The client, the client. If you don't have a healthy relationship with your client, you're not going to get anything done and you're not going to succeed. So you, you have to be able to, you know, the way I like to talk about it is that, you know, I, I feel like what I am able to do is tell a client's story in terms of building. And, and sometimes that is, means a lot of listening, which architects don't do very well, frankly. And, and at the same time, a lot of recalibrating. You, you know, you have to be able to sometimes tell your client that, that, that, that particular idea, you know, if we really pursued it, it may not work, but you have to do it in a way that's, you know, generally a part of a great conversation and, and ideally it's a great experience for everybody and it's difficult to do. It's a, it's a perilous journey for a lot of people. There's a lot of money at stake and it's extremely risky at the beginning. You're starting with nothing and you hope you're going to be able to get to, you know, someplace where everybody's satisfied. But if you don't pay attention and, and bring the client into the process, you know, you're making a big mistake.
- [15:50]
Podcast Host
Now, how did you rise to that level of notoriety in your space? Like, what was it that, you know, allowed you to, to rise to, you know, above everybody else?
- [16:02]
Kevin Kennon
Well, one of the things, and this is another myth, you know, if people, a lot of people get their ideas about architects from reading the Fountainhead or seeing movies like the Brutalist, and typically the image of the architect is a kind of loner who doesn't listen to people and goes off and does their thing and it's their way or the highway. But in reality, architecture is a very social activity. It is, you Collaborate a lot with. And you put together a team of experts. You know, I work with the best engineers in the world, other architects, you know, interior architects, landscape architects, and that's really what we do. And I guess I'm, I think I'm particularly good at working well with others and, and, and guiding them and leading them. And, you know, I like to say I'm a conductor of a symphony of experts.
- [17:08]
Podcast Host
I was just going to use that same exact analogy. I was like going to say you're, you're a conductor in a symphony then, you know, and that, and that's really how the architects shine, is how well can they get everybody to collaborate.
- [17:23]
Kevin Kennon
That's right. That's right.
- [17:25]
Podcast Host
A masterpiece.
- [17:27]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [17:29]
Podcast Host
Didn't look at it like that. But, you know, this is why I love this show. I always learn a lot. Now, let's talk about your pivot to beyond zero, because, you know, that's obviously your focus now. That's where your passion lies. And yeah, frankly, that's kind of like the hottest thing in building right now anyways. Building, you know, the way you're doing it now. What was the turning point that made you say, you know, I got to do this business?
- [17:55]
Kevin Kennon
Well, yeah, I, I think the pandemic was a big part of it. You know, when you, you get, you're under lockdown. And in New York, we got hit pretty bad with that. And you're, you're, you're still working, you know, remotely, but, you know, you have a little bit more time just to think. And I kept going back to my, my youth. You know, I, I grew up in Pals vs and just south of LA, and we lived right on the ocean on, you know, kind of a cliff. And I think, you know, the thing about living on, on in California in particular, you know, you're always faced with the power of nature if you live on that sort of edge or, you know, either it's floods or fire or landslides or, you know, what have you. You know, you're, you're dealing with some pretty significant forces of nature. And I grew up in that media and I spent a lot of time outdoors and I. Hiking and surfing, skiing and going all over California, which itself is just incredible. And I'm very fortunate to have done that. So I guess it just kind of came back. I started thinking more and more about that and then I, I, then I was asked by a major country in Middle east to evaluate a hotel in an area that was not dissimilar to Monument valley in the US and they wanted to put a 500 room hotel on the top of a beautiful mesa with nothing else around it, just incredible landscape. And I masked it out for them and did a feasibility study and then I told them they were crazy.
- [19:53]
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- [20:24]
Kevin Kennon
but I did, I did think it was an actually really interesting thing to pursue, but on a much smaller scale that would be more appropriate for the beauty of the site.
- [20:38]
Podcast Host
Now let me ask you, there's, there's a lot of misconceptions about this decarbonization movement in architecture. Now what do you think the biggest misconception is with decarbonization in architecture right now?
- [20:50]
Kevin Kennon
You know, I think there's, there's a lot of what we call greenwashing, you know, where, or, or, or kind of bean counting where you're there something called lead. And it's a organization that essentially assigns points for if you do X, Y and Z, you get so many points and we add up all those points, either get a lead silver or gold or platinum. And, and I, I don't think that's, that's really enough. I mean, I think people should really look at everything they do in terms of the specificity of that site and what its impact is going to be. Not just in terms of can I, you know, lower my greenhouse emissions, but also what am I doing with the local community? How are you giving back to it? How am I impacting the land itself and am I conserving, you know, what are so taking a sort of longer view about the impact of what we do and you know, and, and then imbuing that sense of responsibility on everyone and, and I found in my career when, you know, everybody has a stake in the enterprise of putting something together and developing pride in what they do, you just get a better outcome. I, I really want everyone to feel like they built the building, not me. But you know, so I love that.
- [22:28]
Podcast Host
Now, you know what we're hearing? We're hearing so much right now about sustainable buildings and eco designs. But Beyond Zero takes it further than that. How are you Actually making buildings carbon negative.
- [22:44]
Kevin Kennon
Well, we start with, with, I would say we'd start from a conservation first, you know, a sort of nature first approach. So we right now, and all the different hats that I have to put on, you know, one of them is evaluating land. Most of the land we're looking at are, is our ranches and southwest we're talking about 1500 acres plus. So they're, you know, big sites and we, the, we try to create as small a footprint of the building as possible, so letting the rest of the site just be conserved the way it is. So that's, I think that's a big part of the approach. And then in terms of how we build, we want to make sure we build with renewable materials and that we do as little as we can to disturb the conditions of our environment. It's not easy. It's not easy. I, I, you know, I'm not here to proclaim that we're, you know, we, we're going to be masters of everything we do, but at least going into it, that's our proposition.
- [24:03]
Podcast Host
Gotcha now. And you're foreseeing like this is this process is going to get much easier with AI Robotics.
- [24:13]
Kevin Kennon
Absolutely.
- [24:14]
Podcast Host
Also with, I mean, just, you know, the, the, the current political party is also trying to really expand on building guidelines.
- [24:26]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Podcast Host
You know, mitigating a lot of the red tape that you're dealing with in construction.
- [24:32]
Kevin Kennon
Right.
- [24:33]
Podcast Host
Solve for, oh my gosh, the endless issues that the red tape is causing. You know, the, the added bureaucracy has made it a nightmare to build.
- [24:42]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [24:43]
Podcast Host
Driving costs up.
- [24:44]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [24:45]
Podcast Host
How have you been dealing with that in your industry now and what are your hopes for the future under the current political party?
- [24:53]
Kevin Kennon
Well, you know, as a real estate developer, you, you, you take on a lot of risk and you, and risk is inherent in time, you know, so the more time that it takes to do anything, you know, the riskier it gets. And the unfortunate part is that what we call the entitlement process and other people call it regulatory, but that entitlement process is, and managing that is probably one of the hairiest things that you have to do because it's, it, so much of it is unknown. You know, there, there's, there's strategies for how to do that and fortunately I've been involved in a lot of projects that, that people have done that very well. But you know, it's, it's investment in, in that and process. So anything that we can do and I, you know, I, I've been hearing a lot of this from you Know, both sides of the, the, the aisle, so to speak, that, that, that, that regulatory part of it which was, you know, I think it was originally paved in good intentions, but has really unfortunately become an impediment to building anything that that has got to change.
- [26:15]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I mean, all legislation and you know, all these regulators are all paid with good intentions. Yeah, but they're just government workers that have no idea of what the heck you do.
- [26:29]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [26:29]
Podcast Host
And they add red tape without the proper research and then they make your job a nightmare. Yeah. And then now we have to get new political influence just to, to reverse what they just did.
- [26:40]
Kevin Kennon
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, New York is notorious for that as well. It's gotten better. I mean, there's, there's been, excuse me, some streamlining, but you know, you're still dealing with human beings and, and bureaucracy and you know, that just, that's where a lot of that red tape can kind of fall out. So, you know, ideally we start to understand that there. And this is where I think architects can play a huge role. You know, because we have the training, a lot of training, and we have a lot of the liability on these projects, we should be able to self certify that we're in compliance with the code and, and, and not have to go through panels of architectural review boards. And you know, it's, which I, I find a lot of it just kind of pointless and a huge waste of time and money and resources. But yeah, I think that if you were, you're able to basically come in and say, you know, here I am, I'm licensed here, I can, I do this, I follow the rules and regulations and I certify that we're compliant. We would save a lot of time.
- [28:13]
Podcast Host
Now, what do you think are the real blockers for you right now with scaling and, and being able to, you know, kind of grow this negative carbon architectural platform?
- [28:27]
Kevin Kennon
Well, you know, we, we certainly, you know, we're losing some incentives that were there before, but I, I, again, I don't see that as a huge impediment to what we're doing because we're really partnering with innovative companies to do that. So we're just driven mainly by tech, frankly, and, you know, and, and accessing tech and, and using. We, you know, these are, these are luxury resorts and they're sort of all built around regeneration and wellness. They're, they're really about, you know, people coming to our, our, one of our hotels and re, you know, regenerating, resetting in an incredible way, environment of Pristine beauty. I mean that's really what we're trying to achieve. And, and you know, how, how you get there, I think is, is really is, is all part of, it's all part of what we do. And I don't know it, it seems to me that, that once you start to focus on that, everything else sort of falls in place. And so the, you know, what, what had been looking at? Oh well, you know, we're, we're kind of an environment where there might be some of the incentives, the economic incentives that were there before for, you know, say installing solar and, or geothermal, which is something we're very interested in. It kind of goes by the wayside because people are already doing it and there's terrific companies out there that have invested in it and they're not going to stop
- [30:23]
Podcast Host
now. What do you think you're most excited about right now? About the intersection of design, tech and climate. Like what excites you most about this huge intersection?
- [30:34]
Kevin Kennon
The fact that it's becoming just part of, and not to overuse this term, but you know, part of our whole ecosystem. It's embedded into what we do. I think what's interesting for me, and I use AI a lot in what I do and I find it to be very liberating. And now I have the benefit of almost 40 years of experience where I understand is, is producing BS and I can interrogate it and get it, you know, back on track. But I, I think more and more people are going to start to use it and in that way it's going to be extremely liberating for what we're able to do. And I think it's going to create efficiencies that we're only now just beginning to, to realize. Inefficiencies and a lot of innovation. I see that's, that's the part of the story that people miss. You know, the, the negative side is oh, we're going to lose all our jobs, etc. No, we're going to create a lot of new jobs and new, you know, markets and, and new types of companies that, you know, we, we can't even begin to imagine right now. So I'm very, so far, you know, with, you know, with certain regard rails put into AI, but I'm very pro AI.
- [32:05]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I mean what you, what you described is basically everyone's hesitation. But the reality is, you know, markets will find a way. We're going to continue to expand and use these tools to benefit mankind.
- [32:16]
Kevin Kennon
Right.
- [32:17]
Podcast Host
And it is kind of, it's exciting to see all these changes happen so rapidly and how fast our society is going to progress.
- [32:26]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [32:26]
Podcast Host
Especially with, you know, with the big concerns with like global war. I mean all the issues, environmental issues and all these things that now we're solving for on the developmentals, on the real estate developmental side that never were factored in. Ever. Yeah, ever.
- [32:45]
Kevin Kennon
Right. And that's the thing you can, it's so easy to do. You can keep inputting more and more parameters and it just gets better, you know, and, and for me, as somebody who's always been acutely aware of the practical side of what we do, you know, making sure that we can design really cutting an edge architecture but get it built, you know, realize it. And, and, and that in order to do that you have to be able to, to, to think about every aspect of that design all the way through construction realization, all the way to, you know, when the first guest opens the door and then, you know, writes a great review and more people come and then it's, it's, it's a living environment.
- [33:43]
Podcast Host
Now a couple last questions I have for you. This one's about, you know, your legacy. What legacy do you want to leave behind with, with your company Beyond Zero? Not just as a designer, but as the actual founder?
- [34:02]
Kevin Kennon
Wow. You know, I guess a lot I get, you know, a lot of people I think, and certainly some architects I know go into architecture because, oh, I'm gonna build something that's going to be there forever. And you know, it's, it's, that's, that's going to be my, my legacy. I, I don't think of architecture that way. You know, my legacy I hope is that is somebody who's more interested in humanity and making the world just a little bit better than when I left it. I think if that's, if that's what people remember me by, that's for me that would be extremely satisfying.
- [35:02]
Podcast Host
Now, what's a personal goal that you have for yourself, a business goal that you have for your business and a family goal you have for your family?
- [35:11]
Kevin Kennon
Well, I'm going to reverse that. I, I, you know, I'm a dad first, so I, my, I have two great kids and they're both in college right now and so I'm very excited for their next chapter in their life.
- [35:28]
Podcast Host
What's that? Any third generation architects?
- [35:33]
Kevin Kennon
I don't think so. I don't think so. We'll see. You know, you know, they, they're, they, they're pro, they kind of strike me as being more academics, but we'll see. You never know. And if they do, that's great. You know, it's not anything that I, I necessarily, you know, proselytize. But, and, and in terms of my, you know, business goals right now, you know, I, I really am excited about this journey that I'm on. When I talk to my investors, I talk to the talk. And you know, real estate is, is a different kind of investment because it's, it's, you're investing typically for the long term. It's not like buying stocks. And so, you know, I always tell people who are investing with us that, you know, it, it for real estate, you have to imagine yourself living there or staying there or going to work there. If you can't do that, just walk away. You know, if you can't project, you know that it's something you want to do. And for beyond zero, you know, we're really looking for our future guests. You know, people who really would want that kind of experience want to be in the wilderness, who love nature and love nature when it's great and you want to be outdoors, but also love it when, you know, you want to hunker down and sit by fire and talk to your friends. And so, you know, so that's, that is for me, the goal of the business. I didn't, I didn't, I'm not really doing it to make money. I'm really doing it because I think that type of experience is something that I would want very much in my life. And I, I think there are other people out there who share that, that sense of adventure and, you know, want to dream big.
- [37:40]
Podcast Host
And your personal goal.
- [37:43]
Kevin Kennon
And my, my personal goal is, is every day, you know, to hopefully make someone in my, yeah, very much day to day thing. And every day I woke up and I, I said, I, you know, I hope I make somebody I encounter in my daily going about their lives a little bit better.
- [38:06]
Podcast Host
That's it, you know, that's what it's about. My last question for you, you're doing so much in terms of really creating your business to be of service to mankind, and there's a lot of honor in that. And I am a deep belief that, you know, you do God's work, He always does your work. And I really feel like what you're doing with, with your passion project, not having to probably even work at this stage in your life, but being so concerned about the future, it's going to have such a prolific impact for generations. With that said, when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?
- [38:50]
Kevin Kennon
Well, I hope it's God first of all. And yeah, I, I, you know, I hope that he looks at the, the, you know, nobody's perfect. I, I would be the first to admit it but you know, he looks at, at the, or she, you know, looks at the, you know, my overall life and, and says, you know, you did okay, Kevin.
- [39:14]
Podcast Host
You've been a blessing to have on the show. I hope you hit every single one of your goals keep crushing. I want you to build so many skyscrapers in the future and help so many people just get out of this crazy carbon buildings that we have now.
- [39:27]
Kevin Kennon
Yeah.
- [39:28]
Podcast Host
People want to connect with you. How can they find you?
- [39:31]
Kevin Kennon
Well, the easiest way is you Google me. There's only one Kevin Ken K e V I n K e n n o n And from there, you know, it's you can find me all over the place. The other easy place to get me is on LinkedIn.
- [39:48]
Podcast Host
Kevin, it's been a pleasure. We'll drop some stuff here in the notes. God bless. Keep doing what you're doing. It's been an absolute blessing to have you on the show.
- [40:15]
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- [40:48]
Kevin Kennon
spot you are about to hear is
- [40:50]
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- [40:53]
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- [41:29]
Kevin Kennon
Fantastic.
- [41:31]
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