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Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Alin Armstrong/Pastor Coin: The Christian Case for Bitcoin and Truth in Money
00:48:04
Alin "PastorCoin" Armstrong joins me to explain why "You shall not steal" is God's monetary policy, and how Bitcoin aligns with sowing & reaping, truth, and loving your neighbor. We discuss: Is Bitcoin a religious cult? Divine fiat (Creation) and carna...
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- [00:00]
A
The Federal Reserve is complex for on purpose. It's like nobody understands how the heck this. I don't even think the Fed understands how the Fed works. God's monetary policy is very simple. It's one sentence, you shall not steal. That's really all. That's all it is. That one commandment, you shall not steal summarizes everything you need to know about what monetary policy should be. A righteous and good monetary policy.
- [00:31]
B
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. Joining me this week is Alan Armstrong, also known as Pastor Coin on X. Alan, thank you so much for joining me.
- [00:41]
A
Thank you Natalie, for having me on. I really, really appreciate this. I know I've been badgering you and your comments. Have me on, having me on, have me on. And I didn't think it would work, but here we are. It worked. So thanks.
- [00:52]
B
Well, you know what, A lot of people actually requested you and I first read your name in Lawrence Lippard, Larry Lippard's book, the Big Prince and I was really excited. I actually, I mentioned one of the quotes in my last interview with Larry. So first of all, let's just get your backstory. Tell me where you're from, why you decided to become a pastor, and ultimately how you found bitcoin.
- [01:15]
A
Well, so I'm from Canada. I was born in Romania but grew up in Canada in a rather irreligious house. Not anti religious, but not particularly religious. And my boyhood dream actually was to become a professional wrestler. I think my knee pads are somewhere around here. I kept them. But I wanted to become a professional wrestler as a, as a, as a kid into my teenage years. And then When I hit 18, I got trained and I did it, I did become a professional wrestler. It actually, it actually for like, what was it, four years I, I wrestled professionally. Like not like, not like Olympic wrestling, I mean like wwe, the, the so called fake wrestling. And, and then around the year 21 or around the age of 21 rather, I remember sitting in the locker room at a wrestling show and looking around the locker room and thinking, man, do it. Do I want to do this? There's are some rather successful wrestlers in that locker room. And I asked myself, do I want to be him at his age? And the answer was no, I don't. I, I wanted to have a family. I wanted to not be addicted to drugs. I wanted to be healthy. And so, and so I quit. And when I quit wrestling, it kind of left a gap in my life because all I ever wanted to do was wrestle. And now I don't desire it anymore. Like it was really a weird feeling to achieve what you wanted to achieve and not be satisfied with it. So I had that gaping hole in my life. I didn't know what to do. And so started reading books and looking into religion and philosophy and New age and the whole deal. And really what, what. The question I couldn't, the question I couldn't answer was why? Why am I here? What's the purpose? What's the meaning? And the one thing I noticed in almost every religion was this guy Jesus. He seemed to be all over the place, right? Obviously he's in Christianity, but he's in Islam too, and he's in some new age. And I'm like, why does everybody want Jesus for themselves? Everybody wants to claim Jesus for their own thing. So I'm like, okay, maybe Jesus is the answer. Let me find out who he really was. And the obsessive question, and this is a theme in my life, I get obsessive. The obsessive question was, did Jesus rise from the dead? I had to figure that out. If the resurrection is true, then it's game over. This is, this is the one, this is the truth. Because who else has done that, right? Everybody's worried about dying. Well, if somebody says they're going to die and come back from the dead and then they do it, maybe we can trust what they say. So I went on a journey of obsessive study in trying to answer that question. And at the end of that rabbit hole, I discovered, wow, it's true, he did rise from the dead. And then I went all in on Jesus. Now, there's some similarities here with bitcoin, because in 2020, well, so I became a pastor. And then in 2020, covet happened, the money printing happened. I remember talking to my wife in our kitchen and saying, man, I, I got a bad feeling about this. I, and I hadn't done much study in, in economics or anything, but I said, you know, I have a bad feeling. I, I, I, I have a feeling prices are gonna, just gonna skyrocket soon. So it was early 2020, right? And, and so we didn't really see the inflation till a bit later, but she said, oh, maybe or whatever. And then again, I became obsessive because bitcoin came on my radar now. It was on my radar in 2017. I bought some Dogecoin, to my shame, at around $0.01. And then it pumped in 2020, as you remember. And I go, okay, so this, this was a fluke, this was luck. But this bitcoin thing Seems to have some staying power. Why in the world is this bitcoin thing worth tens of thousands of dollars? It didn't make sense to me. It's like, why are people valuing. Valuing this thing? So, again, I became obsessive, and the question was, what the heck is a bitcoin? I couldn't figure it out. I didn't know what it was, why it was so valuable. So I went down that rabbit hole and became obsessive and studied and did the podcasting and all the things that bitcoiners do before they become radicalized. And like many people, it was the bitcoin standard. I read that book, and this is the craziest story, actually, because I read that book during the. The pandemic and whatnot, and I'm like, my mind's being blown. I'm like, wow, this is incredible. The whole time, unknowingly, there were some protests in my city, and I was going to the protest, and Safedine was at some of those protests, and I would speak at those protests, and he would hear me speak, and I would be reading his book, but we didn't know each other. That was just. It was like anti Covid stuff. Oh, wow. Yeah. So we. I had. I had done a bitcoin meetup, and he randomly showed up, and I was like, what the heck? What are you doing here? And then he's like, oh, I recognize you. So anyways, that's just a kind of cool side story, but I read the bitcoin standard, and. And when I did the. The light bulb moment was this. In the book, he talks about the Emperor Nero debasing the coins, and the light bulb clicked in my head. Tyrants debase money. That's the problem. Bitcoin solves that problem. And from that point on, I was a bitcoiner. And I like to say I. I'm not a bitcoiner for any other reason other than I'm a Christian. Because I'm a Christian, I must be a bitcoiner. There's no. There's no way. I can't ignore it. This is the solution to a serious problem for humanity. And so my Christian conviction leads me to be a bitcoiner. So that's sort of the short version. I don't know. How long was that? Five minutes.
- [07:14]
B
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- [11:49]
A
Oh boy. That's really the big one, isn't it? So there's a lot of angles we could take here. I think the simplest and most profound one is in my book, I try to lay out God's monetary policy. And monetary policy is a phrase that is wroth with complexity. Right. The Federal Reserve is complex for on purpose. It's like nobody understands how the heck this. I don't even think the Fed understands how the Fed works. God's monetary policy is very simple. It's one sentence, you shall not steal. That's really all. That's all it is, that one commandment. You shall not steal. Summarizes everything you need to know about what monetary policy should be. A righteous and good monetary policy. You shall not steal. That's it. So if that's the case, then anything that is theft is wrong. Anything that is theft is immoral. Against God's standard. Against. And here's the thing. When it's against God's standard, it's not just offensive to God, okay? And it is offensive to God. But why would it be offensive to God? It. It's offensive to God because it destroys human life and human. And God loves human life. And the reason God loves human life is because he made humans in his image. To. To reflect his character, to reflect his goodness, to work together. You know, what's the commandment? It's be fruitful and multiply, right? God tells us, I made you in my image. Why? To be fruitful and multiply. So he wants us to. To grow, to expand, to bring his image everywhere. So when you steal from another image, bearer of God, what you're doing is you're violating their identity. Your identity is to reflect God and what does and really like. It could be boiled down to many things, but God is the ultimate value. He creates everything. And so I like to characterize this in two sort of columns. Column number one, there's fiat, divine fiat, and carnal fiat. Divine fiat is what God does. So if you remember, in Genesis chapter one, it says, let there be light. God says, let there be this, let there be that. He's speaking all these things into existence. And in Latin, the word let there be is fiat. And so when God uses his fiat, it creates real value. The earth, us. You know, everything was created through the fiat of God. So divine fiat. So what happens is humans have come along and we've tried to supplant God or use that same principle, but we can't. Because in our reality, we operate under sowing and reaping. We can't just speak things into existence. I can't say, let there be money. And there's money. However, that's exactly what the Federal Reserve does. They sit in an ivory tower and they decree, value. Let there be money. That's not how this works. That's a violation of the law of God, of sowing and reaping, not just of theft. It is a violation of the law. You shall not steal. But it's also a violation of our very identity as human beings. We cannot decree real value. We can only work with what God has given us, which is valuable, and use that towards the end of our mission, which is to be fruitful and multiply. So it's a complex thing, but at the end of the day, I think it goes down to our very identity as God's imagers. The money we use is important because if you debase the money, you debase the man. If you debase the money, you debase the person. Because what is a person rather than their time and energy? That's all we are. That's all we have. God has given us an allotment of time, and he says, you must spend it. You can't save it. You can't put it away. You're spending it right now and you can't stop spending it. And when it's gone, it's gone. So if that time and energy is being debased by evil people decreeing value where they can't, that's a grave, grave evil and sin in the sight of God. And so when I discovered that it was game over, it was game over. I had to be a bitcoiner. And so here we are.
- [16:12]
B
That's so well put. Can we actually put a fine point on what you said about reaping and sowing? Because essentially we're taught that you have to sow, you have to put in the work. And that's what bitcoin is based on. It's proving that you did the work. It is tied to something real and measurable, which is energy. But in our world today, people are reaping when they didn't sow. So they're just printing these paper promises out of thin air, forcing us, coercing us, to essentially accept them as real when we know that they're not. And we know that there are so many consequences down the line when someone is not close to the source of that money. Printing.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah. That is the fundamental principle. All Christians and all people, regardless of faith, need to come to grips with sowing and reaping. Every. Every day we encounter this. And it's sort of intuitive, right? I mean, if you were to plant a garden in your backyard, you wouldn't. You wouldn't expect it to grow overnight. You got to get the seed, you got to put it, make sure the soil is rich. If it's crappy soil, it's not going to work. There's so many variables that go into reaping a harvest. So much skill, so much time, so much effort. But at the end of the day, the increase comes from God, because if he doesn't send the rain, if the clouds are covering the sun, it's not going to work. So sowing and reaping is. Is what we need to come to grips with in the terms of money. We get this. You know, you're not going to not go to work and expect to get paid. You're not going to plant an apple tree and expect an apple tomorrow. But for some reason, when it comes to money, we just kind of give it a pass. Oh, sure, yeah. The Fed or whatever central bank you have in your country. Oh, sure, yeah. They just create the money. How else is it going to be made? Where else is it going to come from? Money doesn't grow on trees. Well, it kind of does if you can just print it, because it's literally paper. So bitcoin is the superior money because it is built on those fundamental principles. I talk about time. A lot of people call it the time chain, not the blockchain, time energy. And that's it. It's built on time and real energy. Now it's digital. So that's. That's a learning curve. That's a. That's something that takes time to understand. Because, you know, I talk to a lot of Christians and I tell them, no. They say, well, what's bitcoin? It's not real. I can hold my paper money, I can hold my gold, sure. But bitcoin doesn't exist without real energy and a lot of it. There's actually. Somebody commented on a post on my ex the other day, and he said, you know, bitcoin isn't real. I can hold my gold. I can't hold my bitcoin. It's. It's. It's fake. It's. It's. It's easy. And I said, if it's so easy, get me one. Right? It should be easy. Just, you know, I invite anyone who thinks it's bitcoin is easy to just go get one and then give it to me, because if you don't want it, I'll take it. And you'll soon discover down that rabbit hole of trying to get a bitcoin that it actually takes a lot of effort and a lot of energy. And so that's why it is the, in my opinion, most biblically compliant money humanity's ever had. And to your point about sin, what bit. The. The greatest innovation of bitcoin is that it has taken monetary policy out of the hands of sinful men and put it onto a mathematical protocol. Bitcoin has taken the sinful inclinations of humanity, removed it from monetary policy, and placed it firmly on truth, which is math, objective truth. Can't argue with it. That's the greatest innovation of bitcoin.
- [20:08]
B
So I love exploring these topics and looking at different religions and faiths and exploring my own faith more deeply. But sometimes I've gotten pushback when I try to connect bitcoin to faith conversations. You know, we separated church from state, and there are many people out there who don't want to see bitcoin in that light, don't want to discuss it. They want them to be very, very separate. What do you say to that?
- [20:36]
A
I mean, look, bitcoin, as I just said, is an objective truth protocol. I like to call it the truth machine. And if truth is objective, which by principle it must be, or else it's not truth, then that leads us down another rabbit hole of, well, if bitcoin is true, if math is true, what else is true? You know, where does that lead? And that's one of the phenomenons I've seen in bitcoin in faith, is that when I became a bitcoiner, I was already a Christian. I already believed in God. I already believed in objective truth and all these principles. And so it wasn't really a revelation for me that there's such a thing as objective truth. But what I noticed was a lot of people coming to faith through bitcoin. So they go down the bitcoin rabbit hole, and all of a sudden, now they're getting baptized. I got a message yesterday from a guy who said, hey, I'm getting baptized this Sunday. And it confused me. I'm like, why is bitcoin? You know, I've spent so many years trying to lead people to Christ, and bitcoin's, like, just killing it, doing that job for me, because it's like, why the heck is bitcoin leading so many people to Christ? I couldn't understand. That's. I mean, I'm happy about it. I'm not complaining about it, but I couldn't understand how. Why is this digital money leading people to. And I think I've figured it out. I think the reason that happens is because people come face to face with this truth machine, and it exposes a big gap in their worldview or their life where they say, oh, my goodness, this thing is true. And if this thing is true, what else is true? And then they go back to the ancient ways and they discover, wow, there is a God. Jesus is the way. And they end up getting baptized and dming me on a Tuesday night, which is great. But I think it's that. That confrontation with truth, once you confront the truth, there's really nothing. You can. You could plug your ears, you could ignore it. But if you're irreligious or you don't want to talk about God or whatever and you just want to have your Bitcoin, fine, go ahead. You know, I've debated with atheist bitcoiners and it's fun. I enjoy it. There's no hard feelings. But at the end of the day, Bitcoin shows you that there is an objective truth. And objective truth doesn't just appear out of nowhere. There has to be a first cause. And that first cause is God.
- [23:11]
B
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- [25:40]
A
It's not a new thing. It's been happening throughout human history where people have been trying to get the upper hand on one another. And debasing there's a reason why you shall not steal is in the Ten Commandments, right? That was written a long time ago because theft and financial shenanigans have always been a problem. And so I think, I mean, at the end of the day, it's a sin issue and we need to deal with the sin issue. And I think bitcoin removing sinful humans from the policy is really like a buffer. It's really like insurance against financial shenanigans. How did we get here? Well, I don't know that we've got here. I think we've been here. We've been here and it's been a problem for all of human history. And now we finally have a tool that has a buffer between the sinful heart of men and money. And I know that's kind of a short answer, but that's how I see it. I don't think we got here. We've been here and we finally have a way out.
- [26:49]
B
I don't know if you saw my post, but a couple weeks ago I shared that I asked AI if there was a form of money that. That God designed, what would it look like? And it basically described bitcoin. It even at the very, very bottom, it said the money that we have that's closest to this form would be Bitcoin. And it was really. It was really fascinating. And I tried it on actually multiple AIs and it all came to the same answer. So maybe you can touch on why bitcoin is such a moral and ethical form of money. Regardless of what someone may believe in.
- [27:26]
A
It'S because it is disconnected from humans. You know, it's kind of. I mean, in gold is too. But bitcoin has, has upgraded gold in its properties in that it's made it quicker, you know, final in terms of supply. I mean, there's still lots of gold under the earth and. And some are speculating there's like even tons of gold in space and stuff like that. So, I mean, there's still a lot of gold, but bitcoin as actually as a finality of supply. At the end of the day, if you love your fellow man, then this is an issue you must pay attention to. And that's something that I'm trying to get through the brains of some Christians is this is a love your neighbor issue. I forget who coined the term, but. But I've heard it said that bitcoin is love your neighbor money, because your neighbor is getting stolen from your neighbor is being. Their time and energy is being debased by. By a central bank that has all the control. So for me, it was looking at. Jesus told me to love my neighbor, looking at my children and saying, I want a better future for them. And realizing the current system is not set up to do that. It's a strange dichotomy because the current system is not set up to build. It's not set up to be a system where it incentivizes innovation and building. Although the irony here is that we are seeing innovation, we are seeing building. And so some people might say, what are you talking about? Look at all the technology. I mean, bitcoin arose in this environment, right? So, so what do you mean? It's like, could you imagine what kind of innovation we would have if we had hard money this whole time? I mean, we got here without hard money, imagine where we'd be with it. And so it's, it's. It's trying to look. Trying to look past what we have and what we see to what can be and what could have been is hard because you only know what you know. You only see what you see. People need to want better. It's okay to say things are okay right now or I'm doing okay, or it's not. It's not as bad as it could be. Sure, it's not as bad as it could be, but it's also not as good as it could be. So let's not settle for what we have, which in principle is immoral, and strive for something better. There's no reason we shouldn't strive for something better. I don't understand the, the. The mindset of, it's okay, let's just stay where we are. No, let's get better. Why would we not want to do that?
- [30:06]
B
Well, Said, you know, bitcoin has been referred to as an immaculate conception. And some people have even referred to Satoshi as almost like a God like figure or that he came to us from God. But if you look at Satoshi's writings, there is nothing, no religious undertones, no references to God or Jesus or anything like that. What do you think about that?
- [30:30]
A
Well, there doesn't need to be. You know, if I were to read a math textbook, I wouldn't expect to hear anything about God or Jesus in a math textbook, but it would still nevertheless be true. You know, two plus two equals four. And the reason it equals four is because God made a world wherein mathematics rules the ma. The way I see this, and there's. It's really not really a biblical thing, but the way I see creation is through math. I believe math is the code. God wrote the code for creation and he's running the program as we speak. And so it's kind of a simulation, if you will. But there's still freedom and free will. Don't ask me how that works, I don't know. But he wrote the code in math and he's running the program right now. There's a reason why I said it says in the Bible that God said he speaks its word, its language. Right? John 1:1. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God. And the word was God. And all of creation is held together by his word. The Bible tells us creation is held together through language. And what is code? Code is language. So God coded the universe, he spoke the universe. He's running the program, he's running the software. So when I read a textbook about two plus two equals four, it doesn't say because God, but it is because God. Where did that code come from? I watched a video the other night about math in Christianity and the guy said something profound. He said, it's remarkable to me that math even works. Why should we find something like mathematics? Why should it work so good? We take it for granted. What's really remarkable is that it even exists and that it even works. And when we re. When we view it through that lens of this is a miracle, then it makes all the more sense. So I don't. I wouldn't expect Satoshi or any computer code to to have to explicitly mention God or Christ. The reality is God underpins, undermines, and is presupposed in all of it.
- [32:43]
B
I find it fascinating that so many of the scientists that have revolutionized our understanding of the world have actually been believers and they recognize the perfect order that exists in the universe. But I'm sure you're aware there are people today who are saying that two plus two doesn't equal four and they're actually doubting the validity of math. They're saying things like math is racist. I would love to get your thoughts on what we're seeing as society pulls apart and questions what truth is.
- [33:18]
A
I recommend to all your viewers and listeners to go read Romans chapter one, Stop the video and go read Romans chapter one right now. And you'll see the answer to that question. In Romans chapter one, we're told that when people reject God, they're actually rejecting something they intuitively know is true. Romans 1 tells us that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The truth they know they suppress it. And the more you suppress that truth, the greater the spiral of immoral behavior and absurdity goes down. It tells you in Romans one that God gives them over to a debased mind. What's a debased mind? A debased mind is a mind that says 2 plus 2 is 5. Math is racist. Men are women. Women are men. This is a debased mind. This is a mind that is detached from reality. This is a mind that doesn't, that doesn't. That once knew the truth but suppressed it so much that it's become absurd. There's a saying in some Christian circles, I don't know if you've heard this saying before, but we have two choices. We have Christian Christ or we have chaos. That's really all we have to choose from right now. We have Christ or we have chaos. When you detach yourself from God, you inevitably descend into chaos and absurdity. It's absurd. It's. It, that's. Look, we can use other words, but let's be nice. It's absurd to say math is racist. It's absurd to say two plus two might not equal four. It's absurd. And why is it absurd? Because it's rejecting the reality you live in the objective truth. And this is really where it ends. Always. This, this isn't the first time this has happened. If you look through history, we've seen people descend into absurdity all throughout history. And so I call it a self destructive spiral. We're currently in it. And the, the good news is it won't last long. That's what I think. You can't live like this. You can't have a society in a culture that, that denies truth without it inevitably imploding on itself. We have two options. We're Gonna turn. A hard turn, which I think is going to happen, a hard turn to truth. Because I believe this generation, Gen Z, the young kids growing up in this, they're going to get to be 20, 25, 30, and go, wow, that was really stupid. What was that all about? Like, remember in high school, maybe this didn't happen to you, but it certainly happened to me. You look at your high school yearbook and you go to your picture and you go, oh, man, like, what. What was wrong with me? You know, like that hair, that shirt, whatever. Like, it's embarrassing. I think that's going to happen in a worldview context where these kids are going to get older and go, oh, that was embarrassing. And do. And have a hard turn to traditionalism, hard turn to Christianity. And that's what will save our civilization. Because if that doesn't happen, it's over within 20 years. But something else will replace it. It's not like the world's gonna end. Something else will replace it. Something better.
- [36:51]
B
You know, I really believe in that saying and that meme that shows, hard times create strong men, strong men create easy times. Easy times create weak men. Weak men create hard times. Like, I just think that we've seen that repeat over and over again. And to your earlier points, it's incredible all the amazing things we've achieved and created with imperfect forms of money. So if we migrated to a system of perfectly engineered money that rewards value, that has a positive feedback loop in terms of incentives and what it brings out in us, oh, my gosh, could. I can't even imagine. And it's been such a transformation, at least for me. I've gone from someone who had very little hope in the future, not just for myself, but for the world at large. I felt like I would never afford the type of, you know, life that I thought comes with the American dream and. And that I would just have it harder and harder every single year. And I put off having a family and all of it. And I also just saw the world just dividing and decaying into just more chaos and more polarization and, and more crimes and just people feeling like there. There is no way out. Until bitcoin. Bitcoin changed all of that for me. And I think that's why for me and for you and for so many people, it's almost like a sense of calling to help people understand bitcoin, to bring them onto this Noah's ark, so to speak, as the flood rises around us. Because it's almost like right now we're at this inflection point. And we needed bitcoin now more than ever. The timing of it is almost so perfect when it comes to just how bad things. Things have gotten in this cycle, in this monetary cycle. So as we start to wrap up, I would just love your take on how to bring more people in, because sometimes people do see us as almost like a religious cult, right? And that sometimes loses people. How do we bring people in to pay attention and realize that this is the most important mission and movement and technological innovation that has ever happened?
- [38:56]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's not one cookie cutter approach here. I think each person needs to hear bitcoin in their own. And this is going to sound culty. Love language, if you will, but that's why I wrote my book. I wrote my book, the Bible and bitcoin for Christians. That's it. It's for Christians. So they can hear it in their own language, explained through a biblical worldview to see why they should pay attention, why this is important, what the problem is, why bitcoin's the solution. So I wrote my book for Christians. We have other books, right? Like the Big Prince, for example, which I have here, which is good for other contexts. Maybe people like Larry, you know, he wrote it for boomers. Although it's. It's valuable for everyone. It's not just for boomers, but if you're an older individual, maybe your grandpa would like this book or your grandma would like this book or whatever, or whoever. So there's the bitcoin standard that speaks to others. There's your book, which will speak to a certain demographic. So it's just a matter of, you know, who are you talking with, Figure out what they're about and then give that. At the end of the day, the information is the same. This book, this book, this one's a little more sophisticated than this one, but the. The information is the same. We have a problem. It's called fiat. We have a solution that's called bitcoin. But giving that information to people in the way they can digest and appreciate I think is the best approach. And so if you have Christian friends, go order a bunch of my book and give it to them. And here's the great thing. There's a. There's a Bible study in the back. It's a six week, I think, Bible study. So here's what you do if you're not a Christian. I remember being at the. At a conference and this guy comes up to me, he says, I'm an atheist. Why Would I want your book? I said, do you have anybody in your life who's a Christian? He said, my mom is. I said, you want her to know about bitcoin? He said, yes. I said, here's what you do. Buy my book. Approach your mom. Say, mom, I want to have a Bible study. She will not say no. I promise she won't say no. Then you teach her about bitcoin. She teaches you. She teaches you the Bible. It's a win, win. And so find situations like that where it's. It's a win, win for everybody. And speak to them in their language, in their way. Don't be too over zealous. You know, when I became a new Christian, I was guilty of being overzealous, cramming it down people's throats, being too confrontational. And I see it in bitcoin too, in my own meetup sometimes. We got some overzealous folks in our meetup who are trying to pressure their waitress to accept bitcoin as a tip. And she's like, you guys are weird. You know, a bunch of guys sitting around the table, a bunch of nerds, and they're trying to pay me in this. This fake money. Right. Is how she perceives it. You know, don't do that. Don't be that guy. But. But, you know, be a little tactful and. And don't hit on the waitress either. I've seen that happen. That's. That's not good.
- [41:51]
B
Have you seen the viral video of the comedian who the whole shtick is about believing in God versus nothing? He makes believing in God so much more rational than believing in nothing. And I don't know if you've seen it. If you guys haven't, I'll try to put it in the. In the show notes or. Or on the screen if you're watching the video. But it's just a fantastic video. And I also find it interesting that, you know, if you are Christian or Catholic like me or any other religion, religion represents a higher truth and an ultimate power, and that power is concentrated in God. But yet the perfect form of money for humans is where there. There is no power among us. It's decentralized. Don't you think that's an interesting dichotomy?
- [42:38]
A
Yeah, because we need that. We need that because we're sinful. If we were all perfect and sinless, we wouldn't need something like bitcoin. We would all just be totally trustworthy individuals. I would deliver on what I say. You would deliver on what you say there'd be no need for. For any sort of money in that. I mean, within God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, there's no money. You know, the. The Son doesn't pay the Father, the. You know, because they're perfect. They're. They're totally, perfectly trustworthy. And so because we're imperfect and because we. We need a tool, an intermediary tool in order to reward one another. That's. That's. That's why money exists, and that's why bitcoin is the perfect money, because it detaches, like I said, it detaches humans from the policy, puts it right on math, right on the code of creation, so that we can. I think the dichotomy is that bitcoin is trustless, but creates a more trusting environment, if that makes sense. Like, if I don't have to trust you to do commerce, then I'm more likely to trust you because I don't need to trust you. Right. So it's this weird, like, trust feedback loop where it's trustless and. But makes us more trust. Trustworthy. And there's a lot of dichotomies like that in bitcoin, which, like, the rabbit hole is deep, which is why you have a podcast and there's always content to talk about.
- [44:05]
B
Yes, for sure. Well, and it. And it removes temptation because that's. With money comes the ultimate temptation to enrich yourself, to print more. And that's what we've seen happen. And as soon as people have that power, they will find an excuse to take it inevitably. And so to remove that, to remove that temptation from any of us, I think, is one of the most profound, profoundly impactful things that. That we could do so that we can. We can treat each other better as well in a new monetary system. Well, this has been so great, Alan. I've loved talking to you. Anything else you want to share before. Before we take off?
- [44:44]
A
Yeah, just, you know, I'm here to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, so bitcoin is great. I love bitcoin. It's wonderful. And I know people will say, oh, you can't say you love bitcoin because that means you love money. Not like that. Just relax. I love what bitcoin represents and what it can. It can do for humanity. And I pray and hope for a day wherein we don't even need to have these conversations. A day where bitcoin is just the money and that's it. It's over. There's no more discussion. This is what we use and we can go on to building other things and, and doing other things, having families and building churches and whatnot. But at the end of the day, this is, from my view, is a gift from God. And every gift from God needs to be returned with thanksgiving. And so, you know, just thanking God for everything he's done, thanking God for Bitcoin and realizing that he's the gift giver and he gets the glory. And so Jesus is alive. He is the way. He is the truth. He is true value. His blood is the greatest currency because it wipes away our sin debt. Bitcoin is a far, far number two from that, if it's even on the same scale. But just the last thing I'll leave with your viewers is trust Christ, don't trust the money. Here, let me say it this way. This is better. Trust Christ, verify everything else. Those are my final words.
- [46:10]
B
Yeah, that's a great message. It's been so great to talk to you. I. I have been on quite a journey with my faith, and bitcoin has actually brought me closer to it. Again, that's why I love talking about it. I read the Bible in a more disconnected way when I was a child, right through CCD classes, and it was more so like the childhood stories you remember. But then I read it more academically and critically when I was in college. But it wasn't until Bitcoin that I just fully appreciated how money impacts, like, all of our relationships and what value really is and why we need something to your earlier points based on math and energy as opposed to something people can control and manipulate. And recently I've been encouraged to take my Bible out again after the Charlie Kirk shooting. So I've been rereading verses and got a daily Bible verse that gets sent to me through an app. And so, you know, regardless of what your beliefs are, I hope you found this a welcoming space. I think these conversations are fascinating and there are so many different religions out there that have embraced bitcoin and I'm sure we'll see eventually everyone do so. So thank you so much, Alan. It's been great to chat with you and I'll have your information and your book in the show notes.
- [47:27]
A
All right, thanks a lot. I appreciate this.
- [47:29]
B
Thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. And if you can turn on those notifications and leave us a positive review, they really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up@thenewsblock.substack.com this show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as official investment advice, and you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach out@infoalkingbitcoin.com I'll see you next time.