← Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
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- [00:00]
A
There was a period in time in the last couple years where we were the number one traded US Equity period above anyone else. Today, I think we're still top 10. So how do you exclude a top 10 traded stock in liquidity and say, well, we're just not going to include that in our index. You're going to exclude a major portion of investment demand that exists for passive investors.
- [00:31]
B
Hey, everyone, welcome back to the show. Joining me this week is Andrew Kang. He is the chief financial officer at Strategy and here we are at the headquarters. Thanks for having me and thanks for joining me, Andrew.
- [00:43]
A
Thank you for having me as well. I'm very excited to be here. I know that we've tried to do this before and I'm excited to finally sit down and chat.
- [00:50]
B
It's been a long time coming and I'm excited to talk to you. Now we need a little bit of, I don't know, optimism, I think in the market. A lot of people have gone very bearish on bitcoin lately. Can you just talk about the sentiment and also what we've seen with the price action? Because really this year, I think a lot of people were expecting to see maybe even $200,000 bitcoin. Last year in November, when we had the red wave, we soared up to six figures for the first time. And then this year's been kind of disappointing for a lot of people. So how do you see it?
- [01:22]
A
So it is, you know, bitcoin is a volatile asset. And I think in order to answer that, when I think about answering that, I think about when I started my bitcoin, my real bitcoin journey, it was in the summer of 2022. So if you recall, 22 was not a great year. Bitcoin had a high at that time, I think around 65, 67K. And then by the end of 22, it dropped to 16,000. And you, you know, that was my first sort of entry and understanding of how volatile bitcoin can be. And so I think, you know, I think you got to start there and understand that bitcoin is still an emerging technology. It's still an emerging asset. It's only been around for a short period of time relative to a lot of other asset classes in the financial system today. And so we're going to see a little bit of volatility and I think we're going through some of that today, factoring in also other broader macro impacts. Right. Like there's still a lot of volatility around other big technologies out there. You know, AI More recently, I think there's still some uncertainty in Fed policy and rate expectations next year. So there's a lot of stuff going on in the macro that I think lends itself to Bitcoin now more than maybe it did before. I'm sure we'll talk about the adoption that's occurred over the last two to three years. And so the sentiment, I think right now to me, isn't Bitcoin specific. I think it's Bitcoin as still viewed as a risk asset within a broader macro environment. Still a very volatile asset, still an emerging asset. But the fundamentals of Bitcoin remain consistent, right? The fundamental long term view, long term store of value, the finite supply, all of those intrinsic values that bitcoiners believe, and we believe in Bitcoin, those still persist. And I think it's a matter of time before we come out of that again.
- [03:29]
B
Yeah, the fundamentals really have never been stronger. So it's sort of surprising when you see the sentiment take the turn that it has. You guys have been busy here at Strategy, so let's talk a little bit about some of the developments we just saw. Michael Saylor tweeting recently, visiting some big banks in New York City. What exactly is happening there?
- [03:49]
A
More institutional adoption, more big bank adoption. I always like to think that Michael, he spends a lot of time thinking about Bitcoin. I think he spends all of his time thinking about Bitcoin. And as a result, we spend all of our time thinking about Bitcoin. If you go back a year or two ago, I think I vividly recall Michael laying out his sort of prediction of the adoption curve. And one of those things even a year or two ago was big bank adoption. People realizing that Bitcoin is the apex digital asset, it is the asset for the future. And it just takes time. It takes maturity of the markets. It takes some regulatory clarity, which we've gotten in the past year or so. I think for all of those reasons, you're seeing people recognize Bitcoin more as a mainstream asset today than it ever has been. And as a result, a lot of the naysayers that existed many years ago are starting to come around and say, hey, I can't ignore this anymore. I must understand it. And we always talk about having to do the work to understand it. And it's easy not to. It's easy to step back and say, I don't know what this is. It's this thing that I can't touch and it's this thing that I can't see. So maybe it doesn't exist, but with time, I think more and more people are understanding that it can't be ignored. And so what you're seeing are early adopters in the financial markets that have really taken the lead. You're now seeing the larger, more complex institutions that may be seeing some regulatory burdens taken off of them, some more avenues open for them to operate within the Bitcoin ecosystem. And so I think that you see the pictures of Michael at some of the largest US and international banks. I know he was just out in the Middle east talking to a lot of sovereigns and a lot of, you know, significant capital that's out there. And so I think you're going to see more of that.
- [05:57]
C
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- [07:32]
B
Can you talk a little bit about what it's been like to educate the market on these preferreds that you've issued. We've talked about them on the show before. But how has education been when it comes to really the capital markets and these institutions?
- [07:44]
A
It's been extremely eye opening. And what I mean by that is the preferred market itself was never a very broad market. It was very specific. Most recently, a lot of banks and financial services companies have used it for different sort of capital structure narratives. But really like introducing an asset class that has existed for a long time but in a more publicly available in a more brand focused way has been a journey. And I think we're just at the beginning of that. The simple message that I like to say is look, if you're an institutional investor or if you're a retail investor and you want yield, and by yield income stretch, for example, is offering 10 and 3/4% annual return. If you want that income and you don't know what a pref is, it's like the equivalent of putting your cash in a money market account where you earn 3%. And so it's just some of those basic building blocks of bringing a more complex asset class into the mainstream that we've been working on. You know, some of the more important areas where we've I think activated is, you know, one of the core principles of our preferreds is that they're all listed on an exchange, whether in the US or in Europe. They all have tickers that are easily recognizable for anyone to understand. And it's just really sort of helping bring a very bespoke part of the market into the mainstream with a simple premise of if you want to earn income or yield, there's a great opportunity in all of strategy's preferred offerings.
- [09:35]
B
Have you been surprised by some of the feedback where people seem to be confused about where the dividends are coming from? There's concern from the market and what was behind the decision to create this USD reserve? Because it's very surprising to see strategy almost by cash rather than bitcoin.
- [09:54]
A
So early on, when we were developing and thinking around the preferred structure, that question came up a lot. If you're going to pay 10% dividends and you plan to grow this to billions and hundreds of billions of dollars of outstanding notional, how are you going to pay for that? We always had an intrinsic belief that we had enough capital through our equity and our capital structure to be able to fund those dividends. And so what that simply means is we can raise capital through our common stock to pay those dividends. If it's 10% or more, even if that balance grows over time, we had conviction in that because we've seen the demand and liquidity in the market of our common stock to have really skyrocketed over the past five years as we adopted the bitcoin treasury strategy. And so we always knew that that existed. But it was hard in many of these cases when you're doing something new, you sort of have to put prove it right. And you know, the prefs have only been outstanding for, you know, barely a year, almost a year coming up in Q1 of the coming year. And so a little bit of the market, the broad market perspective is, yeah, we see that, we understand you, but you really haven't proven yourself yet. And we, but we believed that we could, and we knew that we could fast forward to today, you know, come into a market that's a little bit down. You see, you take more of a risk management focus to liquidity. I grew up in liquidity risk management in my career. So those are all the principles that become even more important. And I think we realized that we said we could always raise the capital to pay the dividends. We knew that we could. What better way to demonstrate that than to structure in a reserve that that solidifies it and signals to the market our ability to do so and then puts it out there for the future. So it'll help us manage through volatility, it'll help us manage through ups and downs in the bitcoin market. But really, to me, it's almost a signal of proving what we said we could do and we knew we could do. And now it's there for all of the protection of our pref investors in the future. Future.
- [12:17]
B
And you've just released the fifth recently stream, right, Specifically for Europe. What if someone's watching this or listening to it and going, why do they have to release so many and why do they have to keep collecting bitcoin? Like, isn't there some level where it's enough and they're going to keep generating income and there's an amount of dividends that they won't have an issue paying long term, perpetually. Like, why? Why keep going? And I'm assuming you'll probably issue more than just five of these perpetual preferreds. You're acquiring bitcoin pretty much every week. It feels like we're. What if someone's saying why? Why isn't what you have enough?
- [12:53]
A
I would say that there's still a long journey for bitcoin down the road. Right? It's still a growing asset class. It still has a 50% ARR sort of characteristic to it. So if Bitcoin was this boring thing that didn't have this long term value creation component to it, then maybe we would be done. But we know that's not the case. There's still more upside to Bitcoin. We know it's going to go from where it is today to, you know, back to 125k, up to 200k, up to a million, up to 21 million one day. That all still is going to happen. It just is going to happen over a period of time and there's going to be volatility associated with it. And so for us, why we keep doing it is with that principle in mind. And why we keep doing it is if we continue accreting more Bitcoin to our balance sheet, it will be valuable for our shareholders. And so why the prefs? Why so many? We're looking for different pockets of untapped capital. We're looking for areas where we can grow the demand. Again, like I was talking, talking to you about earlier, you know, finding ways where people who want exposure can't get it, who now can get it. We did that here in the US very successfully. We just launched stream in Europe. Europe, you know, there's a lot of pent up demand for digital assets in Europe. This is the step one to that, I would say. You know, we said publicly that there are other areas globally that also have this pent up demand. So I think for us, you know, the PREFS is one step. I think we're going to keep learning as we go. I guarantee you a year or two from now there's going to be another innovation in a product developed off of Bitcoin that strategy is going to introduce and it's just going to be a continuing evolution of Bitcoin as the standard of the financial markets for the future.
- [14:50]
B
Let's talk a little bit about index inclusion. You're in the NASDAQ 100, you're in the MSCI index, not the S and P yet. But there was this memo that was put out that MSCI is considering changing its rules. Can you talk a little bit about what happened, the reaction really when you saw that and what you're doing to try to make sure that they don't discount these Bitcoin treasuries from inclusion?
- [15:14]
A
Yeah, so it's a very important topic right now. And I think it's also a bit of an indication that different parts of the market are still learning about Bitcoin and digital assets. And now in the context of digital asset treasury companies, as you know, strategy was included in the MSCI indexes based on the principle that we are an operating company and we meet certain eligibility requirements. And that was sort of without the context of, you know, this digital asset treasury company overlay. So just by the principles alone, strategy was eligible and included. Fast forward to today. A lot of people have looked, seen what we've done and tried to come into that space and we've seen an explosion of, of what people call DAT codes in the last year or so. So the population has grown and with that, I think the observation of trying to understand it has grown. And so we're in a moment, I think, where the indexes, MSCI S and P, all of them, ftse, nasdaq, we're at a moment in time where they have the opportunity to learn and understand this, this emerging asset class and not be prejudiced to it and really have an ability to lean into that innovation and sustain a structure and a system that's been in place to create an unbiased, unprejudiced view on how broad investment vehicles, passive investors can get exposure to the broader equity markets. And so I really hope that the index providers view it as an opportunity to learn and not exclude. But going back to the core principles of IT strategy is a operating company. We are not an investment fund. Bitcoin is a commodity, as you very well know. I think it was in 2015. It was designated by the CFTC as, as a commodity and not a security. I think those are some of the simple elemental things that people don't understand right now. And I think when the index providers understand that digital asset treasury companies are capitalizing on a commodity, a digital asset, building products on top of that, not unlike a commodity like oil, not unlike a commodity like physical gold, not unlike a commodity like timber, where operating companies establish themselves on top of that and build products. That's what we're doing, but it's just new. And so again, my hope is that they understand that they learn about it and not just say no.
- [18:08]
B
And the decision is going to be.
- [18:09]
A
Made when about February, the decision will be made at least as they've announced it, on January 15th. I think that my guess is with our response to them, with others responding to them, they'll learn that this is a bigger ecosystem than they probably first imagined it to be. I hope that they take their time to understand it before they make a.
- [18:33]
B
Rash decision and it's a big deal. To be included in these index funds.
- [18:37]
C
Right.
- [18:37]
B
It means a lot of passive flows and people sort of investing in Bitcoin without even realizing they're investing in Bitcoin.
- [18:43]
C
Right.
- [18:43]
B
Can you talk about the importance and why you're really pushing hard for them to better understand so that they don't vote to disclude the companies?
- [18:50]
A
Yeah, I mean, there's certainly a Bitcoin narrative around it. Right. Like I was just talking a moment ago, a lot of people want exposure to Bitcoin that haven't been able to have it. I think, you know, I think the purpose of the index providers is to create that broad exposure without prejudice. Right. And so if you look at mstr, our common equity, there was a period in time in the last couple years where we were the number one traded US equity period above anyone else. Today, I think we're still top 10. So how do you exclude a top 10 traded stock in liquidity and say, well, we're just not going to include that in our index. You're going to exclude major portion of investment demand that exists for passive investors. So if you really want to be objective and represent the market, if as long as the core fundamentals are there, like I said, we're not an investment fund, we are an operating company which is an eligibility requirement, then you want to give people that same exposure as they invest passively. So I just think I'm very hopeful that people start to really click on that and just take their time.
- [20:04]
C
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- [21:49]
B
Well, and it seems like there's a lot of work to be done with the credit agencies as well trying to help them understand these new instruments that you've put into the market. Can you tell about that? Because I know a lot of people saw the headline that you got that B minus rating, which I think you took it in stride. You said it's a start, we can build up from there. And talk to me about the credit rating agencies.
- [22:11]
A
By the way, you took it in stride, no pun intended, right?
- [22:14]
B
Oh yeah. I didn't realize it.
- [22:18]
A
I've worked with credit rating agencies now for pretty much my entire career. I did through the great financial crisis, which was an experience in and of itself. But credit rating agencies on one hand are sort of mandated to be conservative. And in much of their methodology, they look to the past, they look at historical data, they look at track record, they look at trends, but it's all rear view spacing. They're not really looking forward. Although I will say many components of the rating agencies today are trying to look forward to digital assets. And so we're sort of stuck within this paradigm of taking an innovation, something that's brand new, something that's immensely popular and growing and trying to fit it in, like the old way of ratings, evaluations and methodologies. I think we've made a lot of progress with S and P. And the reason why we took it in stride was because it's a starting point. And you know, as we've seen over the last five to ten years in bitcoin and bitcoin adoption and bitcoin regulation, all of those things take time and don't happen overnight. Just like the index providers need to take their time and figure this out, the rating agencies will take their time to figure it out. So for us It's a starting point. We believe that as the broader markets continue to come in, there's more adoption, there's more big banks supporting it. It's one thing when strategies out there advocating for a rating, but when the big banks start holding digital assets and bitcoin on their balance sheet, I guarantee you they're going to go start advocating for better treatment from a capital perspective of digital assets. It's a progress. It's the first step. And I think I'm very optimistic that little things too, like not just the adoption of bitcoin and the maturity of bitcoin going forward, but little things that we do as a company like putting the reserve in place. That was a key credit positive component of our risk profile. Again, the rating agencies asked us, how are you going to pay for these dividends? We said, we can, we've got a highly liquid common stock. We can raise $5 billion. I should say our average trading volume is somewhere between four to five billion dollars a day. We can easily raise hundreds of millions of dollars pretty easily, which we have demonstrated in the past. And so that was a topic. What did we do? We said, we took that into account, we took the market into account. We said, we're going to show you. And so that's a credit positive event that that is now the agencies hopefully are thinking about and reviewing. And so I believe as we continue to take feedback, as we continue to develop more, as the ecosystem matures, we're going to have a lot of upside there.
- [25:14]
B
Well, I know a lot of audience members listening to this show have seen the big short. It's almost like the flip side of that. They were like, why haven't they downgraded these bonds yet? And now I think it's on the other side where it's like, why aren't you recognizing Bitcoin yet? But it just, it takes time with some of these very bureaucratic agencies. Right. Talk to me about next year. 2026 is coming around again. I know that there's been volatility, but what are some of the tailwinds that you hope really get moving and maybe what are some of the biggest challenges and where you're focusing?
- [25:49]
A
So I think more broadly, I think there will be some tailwinds in terms of what's happening in D.C. not too far from here. I know we're all still waiting for some of the legislation to move through the system. I think that doesn't impact us immediately and directly, but I think it helps support the broader crypto economy. I think all of Those things. It's a rising tide. It lifts all boats, so to speak. And so I think there's some progress that we'll see there. I really think one of the big components or maybe two of the big components is more adoption every day. You see another big bank come in saying we're willing to lend against it, we're willing to custody it. I saw a little chart on X recently listing all the big banks and whether they're involved in custody and exchange. If you look at that table, you see more names on there with the yeses than you did a year ago. I think 2026 will be, if we look at that a year from now, I guarantee you there'll be, if not, hopefully all of them. Definitely the majority of those big banks will be somehow involved in the ecosystem. I think that will create more adoption and for us more from a company perspective. We're just going to continue looking for areas of capital where there's pent up demand. I mentioned Michael is just out in the Middle East. I feel very optimistic about that. I think there was a ton of energy, a lot of people interested in understanding more, a lot of people seeing the success we've had and the success bitcoin has had. So I think there's going to be a confluence of things that come together now. Can't predict 2026, but I'm pretty optimistic.
- [27:34]
B
I've heard some in this space say that if the big banks come in and they hold bitcoin, they offer custody or they offer the ability to use bitcoin as collateral, that it'll disintermediate a lot of the companies that really built up from this ecosystem. Because if you're already banking at one of the big five, you're probably going to do bitcoin services there as opposed to maybe some of these smaller firms that are well known in the crypto industry, but not maybe mainstream. What do you think about that?
- [28:04]
A
I think I go back to this idea that there's still an emerging component to this. I think there's more than enough room for that to get filled in before we start disintermediating people that have been part of this system for a long time. I think there's still a ton of market share. So if anything it's probably net positive than it is net negative in the sense that the adoption curve continues to accelerate, bitcoin price continues to go up. I think all of those things come together where we're still, you know, I don't, you know, I always use like a Baseball analogy of like where we are in the game. Right. You know, I feel like we're still very early, like second or third inning, maybe even, you know, earlier than that in the long term process that we're in. And so I think there's more than enough room for everyone to come in and still for us to see a lot of benefit to it.
- [29:00]
B
I've also seen people speculating recently that there's been market manipulation or something over the last quarter or so, ever since the October 10th liquidation event, which ironically, I think the MSCI memo was put out somewhere around there. But people, I think, latch onto these narratives online and it's hard to figure out the signal through a lot of the noise. What can you share with people that are worried that there's some sort of manipulation that's happening, suppressing Bitcoin, and then at some point they'll finally allow it to go up?
- [29:31]
A
Honestly, I think a lot of that comes from things that are fun to talk about. Could there be minds that think like that? Most likely. But I think for the scale in which we operate, the magnitude of what bitcoin is today in this market, it's hard for any one actor to really manipulate the market. And for there to be a systemic sort of plan to do that feels a little far reaching to me. You hear the FUD in a lot of different components. You'll hear even more specifically us, like, oh, we're active in the atm, that must be why this happened. Or we bought a bunch of bitcoin and why didn't this happen? Right. You hear those narratives. The fact is, bitcoin is such a big asset class now, even strategy has a hard time doing something that impacts it. And I have a hard time believing that there's this like, systemic, you know, bad actor out there who can control all of it. I think we're really reacting to still a volatile asset, an overlay of macro issues that are pervasive to a risk asset that's emerging. And so personally, I try to silence the FUD and focus on the principles.
- [30:56]
B
Can you talk a little bit about your journey coming to strategy? What did you do before and what was it like meeting Michael for the first time?
- [31:05]
A
So I started. So I guess I'll go way back and I'll try to be quick. I grew up studying and wanting to be a doctor, which some people, people that know me know that. So I studied in undergrad. I did a stint of grad school for it. And then I just, I realized through that sort of process that it Just wasn't for me. And so I went back to school and I got a post baccalaureate degree in accounting. You know, that's exciting. But I thought I wanted to go into finance or, you know, the finance industry. And so that was what I pivoted to. So I started my career, interestingly enough, at a company that. A company called Thomson Financial, which is now called Thomson Reuters, in their equities quantitative data group. So I was fresh out of college, kind of guy sifting through equities data. And interestingly enough, here I am now a part of strategy just ingrained in that market, which is a little bit of full circle for me. But I really cut my teeth in structured finance. I did that for over 20 years. I did it across asset classes in the traditional finance world. I've worked for several large global banks. I was the corporate treasurer of a US bank holding company, which is about $150 billion in assets. I had sort of progressed to learning more about liquidity, risk management, capital risk management, funding, and Treasury. So all of those things kind of. You probably couldn't have predicted it, but now you're like, okay, well, now I see how that all came here. What was interesting, I was a CFO of a publicly traded consumer finance company. And when that company was sold, I had a new opportunity that I was looking for and sort of randomly came into contact with Fong and Michael. And I remember them telling me, they said, you know, we're really interested in all of the things I just described. And this was in 2022. And, you know, you couldn't have predicted, but, you know, what would have happened in the last four years.
- [33:15]
B
And you were not a bitcoiner back then.
- [33:17]
A
So I was not a bitcoiner. I was interested in bitcoin. But as we all know, you got to do the work, right? If you don't do the work, you're not a true bitcoiner. And so in that regard, I would say Michael Saylor was the catalyst for me doing the work. To your point, what was it like, that first interaction? I remember it, and I probably will always remember it, where I was sitting, what I was doing, how I was listening to him. And just, it was that moment of holy cow, I might have said a different word, but like, I haven't even really thought about these different concepts of why bitcoin is important, what's happening to our monetary system, like, how are. How is inflation getting impacted by all these changes? And, you know, it was. It was like an aha moment to some degree, because I Lived through the great financial crisis. You know, I was working in subprime mortgages at the time, so I was on the front lines of all of that. But none of that really clicked until I sat down with Michael and, you know, I think it'll be a memory that I hold for pretty much for the rest of my life. That moment of hearing him explain it, him explaining what they were looking for in a CFO and how I could help contribute to that process and sort of the rest is history, I guess.
- [34:37]
B
Well, I'm sure back then you didn't even have on your radar the idea of issuing these prefers that you have, that you've popped out all this past year. Right. I mean, how is just that evolution been? Because I'm sure it's a challenge to have to almost learn a lot in your role. I mean, have you. Had you ever issued a perpetual preferred before?
- [34:57]
A
Not in my history, no. In my career history. So, yeah, it is certainly a learning process. And it starts with constantly focusing on how to innovate. And I think that's in the DNA of Michael Saylor. It's in the DNA of strategy. We've been around for 30 years developing and innovating in software and technology. This is innovating in technology as a financial store of value, as a form of digital credit. So, like, the DNA still is the same DNA. It's just in a medium that is really important and significant today. So I think the learning process is continuous. The learning process is fast here. I think we've all been sort of augmented by AI in a lot of ways. We learn faster, we do faster, we fail faster, and then we move on to the next thing and we keep iterating until we find something that really makes sense.
- [35:56]
B
Can you talk to me a little bit more about the utilization of AI? Because I hear Michael talk about it quite a bit and that it really assisted in the formation of some of the preferreds. But I have to tell you, Andrew, I mean, I use ChatGPT and some of the other platforms, and I can't even tell you how many times I got a response and it turned out to be inaccurate. Just hallucinating or whatever. I feel like there are still some kinks in the AI and you're using it to make these groundbreaking instruments that you're putting out into the market. Is there any risk that like AI could almost guide you in the wrong direction? And how do you mitigate that?
- [36:33]
A
So I think we're. I think personally we're just at the beginning of what AI is going to do for us as humanity. To be honest, I think we're still in the early stages and, you know, hopefully it all goes in the right direction. But I think AI for us gets the initial thought process, iteration, ideation done faster. I think AI as a tool is important to let it learn. Right. Like, if you ask it the question the first time, you know, you got it. You got to, you know, trust that you got to ask it, you know, give it more information, feed it more context, and then really prompting it is also the other real big sort of lever to get more accurate. And then, look, AI gets us a part of the way. I don't know if it's, you know, 60 to 70% of the way. Maybe it's 80% of the way of that idea creation, the analysis, the iteration, to get to a point where you really have something to think about and work on. And then we use all of the, you know, the experts that have been doing this for years to get to the last, you know, 23rd percent of the process. We, you know, we've got great advisors that help us, you know, supplement what AI says. Give gives us context to the market that maybe the AI doesn't have intrinsically, but it is learning about all those things. So to your point, if I look back to, like, when we first started using AI versus how we're using it today, we've now trained all of our models. Michael's asked it probably 10,000 questions probably in a very short period of time. And so all those things inform the process better. And so I think the output today is better and it will continue to get better. But there's always that last little bit that you need the expertise, you need the mind, you need the person, you need the experience to overlay.
- [38:20]
B
Sure. Something I wanted to ask you is when you travel and you do these educational meetings with institutions and folks, what's the biggest pushback that you still get when it comes to just fundamental bitcoin education? Because I know something we've talked about just sort of off camera, is there is this sort of generational divide. One side embraces a new technology. The other ones may be a little resistant, understandably. Although you've also seen, I mean, I've had my friend's parents orange pill them, so you kind of see a mix. But what have you seen as maybe the biggest forces of opposition to bitcoin when people are first exposed to it?
- [38:56]
A
I think, you know, the most common thing I get is I just don't understand it. What is it? Can I Touch it, feel it, what's the use case, the tangible touch, use case of it. And that generally comes from the older generations, people that have a legacy experience with fiat currency and gold and things they can touch and feel and see sometimes. I honestly equate it in a very simplistic way. In my journey of understanding how technology can innovate. Society is like, I grew up in the years where the Internet was being developed and even to this day I don't think, I'm sure I know how the Internet works, but it does. And it is the backbone of everything we do and it is a core component of our lives today. And so there's a little bit of looking back to understand the future. And I think people who can do that have a better perspective. Right. If you're just focused on my experiences in the past and you don't have an ability to look forward, then that's where you get stuck on the generational piece. It's interesting because I also hear from a lot of people probably like you do is, oh man, my kids are all into Bitcoin. Like a lot of people my age will say they have college aged kids and they're all into it, they've been mining it, God forbid. Too bad they didn't buy it or owned it a long time ago because they couldn't convince their parents to do it. But I think the up and coming generations are more technology savvy. They don't have the prejudice of the past, they're looking towards the future, they're learning it, they're smarter, they have more information, they're doing the work. And I think the story I shared with you is I was with an investor recently and, and that investor, large money manager, was like, I just had the same question that I said a second ago. Like, I don't know what to think about it, but my kid loves it. And I'm like, who's going to be leading this world 20 years from now, 50 years from now? It's that generation. And if that generation is more embedded in it, understands it and is promoting it, resisting it, now is futile. Right? And so I think it's just that type of mindset that's shifting. I think more and more people, even older generations, if you tell them that, if you give them that moment of aha, they get it too. But you got to do the work.
- [41:27]
B
Well lately one area of opposition I'm getting is quantum quantum computing. Everybody's worried about that. Michael Saylor recently tweeted about it. It seems like you guys Must have done the due diligence if you're going to be stacking almost 700,000 Bitcoin. This is. This seems like an area that Michael is not worried about at all. So what do you have to say about it?
- [41:46]
A
I agree with Michael. I think as quantum computing continues to emerge, I think technology and safeguards will also emerge. It's easy to say quantum is going to destroy bitcoin. I also think if quantum is real and the threats of quantum computing become more real, there are other things that it will also threaten. And there will be many, many people that are looking for the same technology advancements that are creating quantum computing to help protect against the threats of quantum computing. It's not just this singular vacuum that's occurring, and then we're going to wake up and there's going to be a threat. I think the bitcoin ecosystem will evolve. I think it is a technology. So as technologies improve, it'll improve as well. So I agree with Michael.
- [42:38]
B
Well, as we wrap up, any final thoughts or anything that we didn't discuss that you want to share?
- [42:43]
A
No. You know, I think we've hit on a lot. I would say that, you know, there's still a lot strategy's gonna do. We're still using that AI, we're making it smarter, we're getting smarter, we're iterating and innovating constantly, and we look forward to a great 2026.
- [43:03]
B
Well, we always get excited to see those orange dots. And I'm sure that at some point you guys are going to reach. What is it called? 1 naka 1 million bitcoin. I have a feeling strategy at some point will get there. So, Andrew, it's been so great. Thank you so much for joining me.
- [43:19]
A
It was a pleasure. Thank you.
- [43:20]
C
Natalie, thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. And if you can turn on those notifications and and leave us a positive review, they really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up@the newsblock.substack.com this show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as official investment advice. And you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach out@infoalkingbitcoin.com I'll see you next time.