Danielle DiMartino Booth: Gold to $10,000+? Trump's War with Fed's Powell as Cracks in Monetary Order Widen

Summary

Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell

Episode Title: Danielle DiMartino Booth: Gold to $10,000+? Trump's War with Fed's Powell as Cracks in Monetary Order Widen
Date: February 2, 2026
Guest: Danielle DiMartino Booth (CEO and Chief Strategist, QI Research)

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolving state of the U.S. and global monetary system, centering on the political battles surrounding the Federal Reserve, the rising prominence of gold and Bitcoin, and the broader consequences for markets, labor, and society. Danielle DiMartino Booth brings candid, insider perspectives on Fed operations, the politicization of monetary policy, and why wealth concentration, labor crises, and a sense of disillusionment are pervading America. The conversation scrutinizes gold’s meteoric rise, the resilience of the U.S. dollar, possible futures for reserve assets, and the practicality of “hard money” solutions like Bitcoin and gold.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Fed, Powell, and Political Volatility

• Powell's Tenure and Political Drama

  • Danielle explains Powell's potential to remain influential at the Fed even once his term ends, comparing to predecessors. Despite odds and political pressure, Powell might continue shaping policy as "shadow chair."
    • "If Jay Powell stays on through the end of January 2028, Trump could be staring down... a shadow Fed chair, but not the one he envisioned, the one who won't leave." (01:03)

• Central Bank Independence Under Threat

  • DiMartino Booth chronicles the increasing politicization of Fed chairs, from Greenspan’s era to the present, highlighting why central bank independence is crucial for balanced monetary policy.
    • "Each successive chair of the Fed has become more overtly political..." (04:50)

Labor Market Realities

• Deepening Labor Crisis

  • Booth provides a stark snapshot of hidden employment woes: underemployment among college grads is 47% (10:02), despite an official unemployment rate of 10%. She underscores structural problems in the labor market, especially for young people and college grads, noting a societal need for more skilled trades.
    • "The most important rungs of the ladder to climb are the first ones you do. And the labor market is effectively shut out." (10:19)

• Fed’s Economic Gauges Questioned

  • Danielle challenges the credibility of headline data like unemployment and GDP, arguing the public’s economic reality is poorly reflected by these stats.
    • "[Powell] knows that the unemployment rate is not a proper gauge of the labor market in the United States right now, yet he's leaning on that." (07:51)

Monetary Policy, Interest Rates, and QE

• Should Rates Fall?

  • Booth supports lowering rates for struggling small businesses but insists on a 2% floor, rejecting a return to zero-interest rate policy (ZIRP). She critiques QE as disproportionately benefiting the wealthy.
    • "No more ZIRP, NO MORE should be 2%." (12:49)

• When Will QE Return?

  • The episode predicts another round of QE is "inevitable," but Booth suggests it will happen only "when passive breaks"—i.e., when passive investment flows (like ETFs) dominate to a breaking point, potentially destabilizing markets.
    • "I think when passive breaks... there's been recent research... suggests that when 83% of flows go into passive, the entire stock market, the entire risky asset complex collapses." (21:04)

Gold: Mania or Sound Hedge?

• Fundamental Drivers & Market Froth

  • Despite gold’s surge, Danielle calls the recent price spikes “asinine” and likens it to meme-stock mania. While she owns gold and affirms fundamental reasons for its rally, she’s skeptical of $10k+ hyper-bullish forecasts unless a massive, permanent portfolio reallocation occurs.
    • "The beginning of the ultimate flight to quality... But I think this rally is just asinine." (13:53)
    • "Going up $500 in one day ain't normal. That's meme stock." (15:43)

• Monetary System Anchor—Gold vs. Treasuries

  • Booth firmly rejects the idea that the world is returning to a gold standard, predicting U.S. Treasuries will remain the anchor, aided by upcoming central clearing reforms.
    • "Do you think that we are changing the monetary anchor underlying the entire system back to gold?"
    • "No..." (17:13)
    • "I do [think it will be Treasuries]. And they're about to centrally clear those puppies and make sure nothing happens to them that happened during COVID." (17:23)

U.S. Dollar’s Reserve Status & Global Finance

• De-dollarization: Reality vs. Rhetoric

  • While foreign central bank holdings of Treasuries have declined, Booth points out that unless countries stop issuing debt in dollars during crises, the dollar will remain hegemonic.
    • "The next time we have a crisis, don't issue debt in dollars. Now if they can do that, then you will take the Treasury out of its pole position." (19:11)

• Weaponization of the Dollar & Global Realignment

  • Brunell and Booth discuss U.S. dollar “weaponization” post-2022 and adversarial actions, sparking global moves to diversify away from Treasuries and seek alternatives.

China, Rare Earths, and Strategic Risks

• China’s Leverage or Vulnerability?

  • Despite perceptions about China’s strength in critical minerals and reserves, Danielle notes their "black box" debt and internal issues. She expresses confidence in U.S. technological advances in rare earth extraction, but laments the lack of skilled labor.
    • "I think that's one of the places that you could safely park your money... companies working on making the extraction of rare earths less damaging..." (24:39)

• Importance of Trades and Reskilling

  • Booth hopes future generations will return to skilled trades—a necessary "rebalancing" for America's economy.
    • "If we had a better balance in our workforce... it would be a much better place to live." (25:34)

Political Implications, Social Tensions, and the Road Ahead

• Growing Wealth Concentration & Social Decay

  • Both speakers voice concerns about growing inequality, deteriorating purchasing power, the rise of "welfare state" tendencies, and the threat of creeping socialism—responses often born from desperation and failed economic policies.
    • "The public is going to get their purchasing power absolutely decimated by however much more money printing they're gonna need to do." (23:17)
    • "I know what socialism did. I witnessed it with my own eyes. We don't need socialism in America, but that's what we're headed for." (28:29)

• Calls for Reform

  • DiMartino Booth advocates for a dramatic overhaul of the Fed (removing its employment mandate), incentivizing job creation, and revamping education—emphasizing public over private access.
    • "I would reopen the Federal Reserve Act. That's one thing I would do... I would work with private companies... to create the next generation of job creators... and make it harder to get paid to not work." (29:49)

Bitcoin: Skepticism, Utility & the Future of Money

• Bitcoin’s Role and Current Weaknesses

  • Booth tracks Bitcoin closely but views it as a risk indicator rather than a robust debasement hedge, noting its underperformance versus gold in the current market context.
    • "I'm tracking bitcoin more closely because I don't have to look at other markets. I can just look at it to know where all the other markets are." (35:19)
    • "Because it's the riskiest asset class on planet Earth. It's a way to express risk appetite." (35:30)

• Brunell’s Hard Money Thesis and Booth’s Pragmatism

  • Natalie argues that hard money, like Bitcoin, is needed for accountability and to counteract inflationary policies, while Danielle contends that a full transition back to gold or Bitcoin as reserve assets would trigger economic catastrophe.
    • "If you moved back onto the gold standard, you would have a global depression overnight." (34:33)
    • "I want to be your age and believe in such things, but there's this thing called practicality." (35:05)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They need to set up a VIX for the Beltway. They could call it the bics.”
  — Danielle DiMartino Booth, on political volatility (00:43)

• “We have a labor market crisis... the most important rungs of the ladder... are effectively shut out. It’s open for welders, and we need more trades men.”
  — Booth, on America's workforce crisis (10:19)

• “No more ZIRP, NO MORE should be 2%.”
  — Booth, on interest rate policy (12:53)

• “Going up $500 in one day ain’t normal. That’s meme stock.”
  — Booth, on gold’s recent surge (15:43)

• “You always want to have protection. That’s why you insure your home against burning down to the ground.”
  — Booth, on portfolio hedges (16:46)

• “I do [think Treasuries will remain anchor]. And they’re about to centrally clear those puppies and make sure nothing happens to them that happened during COVID.”
  — Booth, on Treasuries vs. gold (17:23)

• “Next time we have a crisis, don’t issue debt in dollars. Now if they can do that, then you will take the treasury out of its pole position.”
  — Booth, on the global dollar system (19:11)

• “You need land, you need commodities, you need gold… I think bitcoin instead of gold.”
  — Brunell, on real-asset hedges (36:16)

---

Key Timestamps

• 00:43 – Political drama at the Fed, Jay Powell’s tenure, and Trump’s strategy
• 03:00 – The eroding independence of the Federal Reserve
• 10:02 – Labor market statistics and untold realities for college graduates
• 11:22 – Inflation and truflation rates: What the Fed isn’t measuring
• 12:49 – Booth’s doctrine: “No more ZIRP—rate floor at 2%”
• 13:53 – Gold’s rise: Flight to quality or bubble?
• 17:13 – Conversation on Treasuries vs. a gold anchor to the monetary system
• 19:11 – De-dollarization and the challenge to Treasuries’ supremacy
• 21:04 – The inevitability and conditions for QE’s return
• 24:39 – China’s economic position, rare earths, and U.S. opportunities
• 25:34 – Need for skilled trades, systemic incentives, and economic rebalancing
• 29:49 – If Booth could fix the Fed—her reform priorities
• 34:33 – Booth: Why moving to a gold standard would cause depression
• 35:19 – Bitcoin’s “risk asset” profile and current weakness
• 36:16 – What average Americans should do to protect themselves
• 39:41 – Final thoughts: Wealth concentration, speculation, and hope for the future

---

Final Takeaways & Action Items

• Stay Skeptical and Informed:
  Fact-check, avoid being manipulated by media/social media, and demand data-driven policy.
• Diversify Strategically:
  Booth recommends caution—utilities, avoiding financials, and seeking hard assets or companies innovating rare earth extraction.
• Political Engagement:
  Both panelists call for young, rational leaders, public service, and constitutional reforms, especially term limits and lobbying curbs.
• Invest in Skills and Education:
  Public education, especially in trades and technological skills, must be prioritized to restore real wage growth and competitiveness.
• Anticipate Economic and Market Volatility:
  The era of monetary experimentation is far from over—be prepared for future QEs, labor unrest, and asset class upheaval.

---

For more insights from Danielle DiMartino Booth, visit her Substack (demartinabooth.substack.com) and follow her on social media.

Transcript

[A]

Do you think that we are changing the monetary anchor underlying the entire system back to gold? No, you don't. You still think it'll be primarily treasuries?

[B]

I do. And they're about to centrally clear those puppies and make sure nothing happens to them that happened during COVID.

[A]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Joining me for a very pivotal moment in time, Danielle DiMartino Booth. She is the CEO and chief strategist at QI Research. Wow. So much happening, Danielle. I don't even know where to start. Political battle between Feds pal and the Trump administration. So maybe let's just zoom out. What's your reaction to everything that's been happening in the markets right now?

[B]

You know, I mean, right now, you know, the only thing that I haven't seen on Polymarket, because apparently last year, you could. You could bet on Jesus coming back. But the only thing I haven't seen on Polymarket is a way to gauge political volatility. They need to set up a VIX for the Beltway. They could call it the bics.

[A]

That's a great idea. I just thought of it calling Polymarket.

[B]

Okay, they do. Because it's so volatile. It was so patently apparent. Scott Besant has to be so angry that they trumped up, excuse the pun, criminal charges against Jay Powell. I mean, he has to be so, so, so angry because now he might not leave. And before the charges, the odds of him leaving were, according to Kalshi, 90%. Now the odds of him leaving are 60%. So if he doesn't, if Jay Powell stays on through the end of January 2028, which he can do, Echols, he has his name on the building. He stayed. The only other precedent was Paul Volcker. He stayed for a little bit after his term was out. So if he decides to stay, then Trump could be staring down the barrel of a shadow Fed chair, but not the one he envisioned, the one who won't leave.

[A]

Can you kind of explain the mechanics for people that aren't familiar with the Fed hierarchy? Chair Powell's term is ending in May. Right. But essentially, he could stay on the board and then influence policy.

[B]

Of course he could. I mean, just because somebody is no longer your leader in name, does that mean that they're no longer your leader? That you forget that they've been your leader for eight years? Or do they wield more influence than the average seven governors? We don't know. But he could stay.

[A]

So right now, people are questioning the Fed's independence because things have gotten so political. Can you talk about that because all of the years that you spent at the Fed, maybe explain first why it's so important to have central bank independence that isn't guided by, you know, the political process which wants to sway things one way or another, especially when it comes to monetary policy.

[B]

So there is a history here. In fact, I wrote a book about it called Fed up. Because the modern era of political intervention in the Fed began with Alan Greenspan, who, like it or not, really was dazzled by the stock market. I mean, he just, he was so infatuated by it that he became so popular because the stock market was going up after he came back in 1987 and the crash. But after that crash in 1987, which was just. He came into office In August of 1987, the stock market crashed in October. So he was just in office. And at that point he started leaking information to the bond trading desks on Wall street prior to the Fed injecting liquidity into the markets. It's a good way to make some money if you can front run the Fed. And that was kind of the birth of the Fed put. And each successive chair of the Fed has become more overtly political. Ben Bernanke renounced being a member of the Republican Party upon leaving the Fed. And it was pretty darned obvious that which team he was playing for when he was at the Fed. Janet Yellen is married to somebody who I believe is a communist like official in the party type thing or has been in his past to not speak out of turn. But it was very obvious who she was making policy for. Jay Powell came in initially and was admirably independent. His first Senate testimony, you know, he's just to go in front of the Senate twice a year. That's your obligation. Gives a report on the economy, get grilled by the Senate the first day, the House the next day. And in his first testimony, he was like, I don't make monetary policy for the stock market. And that was tested, right? And eventually junk bond issuance stopped. And on Christmas Eve of 2018, the US stock market melted down. And literally several days later, he was on a stage saying, you know, I shouldn't have taken those pictures. I was very. I needed the money. No, he didn't really say that. But what he said was, I renounce my former views on quantitative easing and markets really haven't looked back since.

[A]

COIN Stories is proudly brought to you by Gemini. Start your bitcoin savings account today. Plus, investing in bitcoin has never been easier, thanks to Gemini's orange Bitcoin credit card. I've got mine right here. Earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin on everyday purchases like gas, dining, groceries and more. No annual fee, no foreign transaction fees and no exchange fees on your Rewards. Head to gemini.com Natalie make sure to get your copy of my new Bitcoin 101 book Bitcoin is for Everyone. It explains why life has become so unaffordable and how Bitcoin can help you build lasting wealth and freedom. It makes the perfect gift for those new to Bitcoin. Just visit the link in my show Notes Coinstories is also brought to you by Ledn. Need cash but don't want to sell your Bitcoin? Leden is the global leader in Bitcoin backed loans, issuing over $9 billion in loans since 2018 and they were the first to offer proof of reserves. With Leden, you get custody loans, no monthly payments and more. Visit Leden IO Natalie to learn more and get a quarter percentage point off your first loan. I'll be sharing my lead in Bitcoin loan journey soon, so stay stay tuned. Want to accept Bitcoin and Stablecoin payments? Speed makes it simple. Customers can pay via QR codes in App online or pos. Speed helped Steak and Shake accept Bitcoin nationwide. As COO Dan Edwards says customers choose.

[B]

To pay in Bitcoin instead of credit cards. We are saving about 50% in our processing fees.

[A]

This led to more support from Bitcoin users and a 10% revenue boost. Getting started is easy. Sign [e-mail] or integrate the API in hours. Start accepting Bitcoin today. Download Speed at Speed app Coinstories or the QR code on the screen and use code COINSTORIES10 for 5000 free sats now he pivoted. Every one of them has pivoted. And it's interesting that you say what you did about the political nature of the office, because I think that a lot of people argue that they've all been political. When there needs to be a monetary injection, a liquidity injection, they do it. They always rush in to save the banks. Which is one of the reasons why it seems like you wrote your book, right? Because the working class has been completely decimated by all of this money printing that has flowed to assets in a certain class. At the expense of everybody else, Right?

[B]

At the expense of everybody else. So every time I see him get up at the podium and right now he's being political despite himself right now he actually knows. He knows that the unemployment rate is not a proper gauge of the labor market in the United States right now, yet he's leaning on that. He knows that GDP is not properly measuring output in the United States. It's measuring a lot of other things, but it's certainly not measuring the economy for the public. And that's right at the very top of the Fed's home website that they make monetary policy for the public good. But he's not. And he's not despite Donald Trump, which makes it even worse. So I look at the opportunity for Powell to stay on through February of. Through January of 2028 as his last opportunity for redemption.

[A]

So you think that he held rates because he's kind of sticking it to Trump, essentially?

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

I thought it was actually really funny when he forgot that he was the one who nominated Powell. Did you see that soundbite where he was like, I don't know who nominated this guy? It's like, you did. And now it's turned into a total political battle.

[B]

It was a running joke at the time that somebody finally whispered in his ear during his first administration, there's a Republican on the committee. There's a Republican who's a governor. And he went, oh, okay, we'll take him.

[A]

Okay, so let's say someone comes in and wants to do Trump's bidding and lower the interest rates significantly.

[B]

Good luck.

[A]

You don't think that they'll have the.

[B]

Consensus if Powell stays? If Lisa Cook. And by the way, in the annals of Trump misfires, having criminal charges trumped up against Jay Powell right before the Supreme Court hears deliberations on Lisa Cook might not have been too wise, because now they're almost certainly gonna rule in her favor. So that eliminates one more position he could have filled.

[A]

That's so wild. I can't believe, like, all of this is happening. And it's just. It's theater at this point.

[B]

It's complete theater. But it's complete theater at the same time that, as I was saying earlier today on another interview, the underemployment rate. The underemployment rate for individuals 22 to 27 years old. These are college graduates. It's 47%. The regular old unemployment rate is just 10% for people between the ages of 22 and 27. We have a labor market crisis in this country. The most important rungs of the ladder to climb are the first ones you do. And the labor market is effectively shut out. It's open for welders, and we need more trades men. And I had a. I had A female painter walk through my door a few months ago, I was like, you bring it, girl. We need more tradespeople in this country. We know that. But that's not going to stop the plight of all of these college graduates who don't have jobs, not recognizing that we have a serious labor market problem. I mean, if Trump was more articulate, he would say that Jay Powell was derelict in his duty because. And use data to back it up.

[A]

Yeah, let's unpack that. Because everything that you're saying, based on the weaknesses that are in the data, they should be lowering rates. Right. And truflation is at what, 1.6% or something?

[B]

So Truflation this morning was at 1.23%. Truflation's CPI equivalent. They actually have a truflation gauge that uses the same weights as the CPI. It's. Is it 0.59, 0.59? Not 1.59? Not. Not 2, 0.59.

[A]

Well, so it seems to me there would be consensus to lower rates. And what would Chair Bell's influence be even if he stayed?

[B]

Well, there would be. There is reason to lower rates. And the reason that I prefer somebody who's never made a political donation in his life, that is Christopher Waller to be named, is because he shares the philosophy of Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant when it comes to interest rates. He does not believe Waller or Besant in the zero bound. They do not believe in the efficacy of quantitative easing. And I'd like to see somebody who did come in and lower interest rates. Small businesses are struggling and closing in record numbers. They need lower borrowing costs. Every time somebody said, you're going to ignite inflation if you lower rates. DiMartino, don't you understand? You're just, just such a wimp. I'm being kind compared to what they call me on Twitter, in which case they get muted and then they think they're still communicating to me and they're just screaming into a vacuum. Bless them, too. But no. Small businesses are struggling, but the floor should be 2%.

[A]

Okay. Right. Cause you always, when you came on this show, you said, no more ZIRP.

[B]

No more ZIRP, NO MORE should be 2%.

[A]

I just, I guess I have a hard time forecasting what's going to happen because at some point, it seems like we always hit a wall and their response has been QE and go down as low as they possibly can. Now, at the same time, I'm like, could we ever see those crazy rates, like for mortgages, for example. We saw in the pandemic. I just don't think that'll happen again. I don't know. I mean, I don't think that even.

[B]

I don't even think that at the zero bound that banks would be as generous with mortgage rates because it's better banks who set the rates. I think the spread would be much wider because the credit worthiness of borrowers isn't what it needs to be. Even if rates are taken to the zero bound. I mean, rates being taken to the zero bound, that benefits private equity, private credit, the top 10%, the wealthiest people on planet Earth, that's who benefited. And Christopher Waller knows that.

[A]

So Powell's recent speech, he kind of downplayed gold rising. What's your response to that?

[B]

I think the beginning of the ultimate flight to quality. Whether you've got inflation or deflation in the past, even in a deflationary environment, if you're in a global financial crisis, gold benefits. I think the buildup of the military in certain countries for the first time in nearly a century, I think global central banks are stockpiling gold. I think the baby boomers aging is driving on a fundamental level, gold. But I think this rally is just asinine.

[A]

Like we're going to go higher or you think we're reaching like a local frothy.

[B]

At. At the risk of being the third person on film, I shared this anecdote with when I was getting out of the cab at Bloomberg just yesterday here in New York. My taxicab driver said, are you on tv? I said, yes. He said, well, you know, central banks are buying gold. I said, I'm aware. And he said 10,000, 15,000. Is it going to 15,000? And I said, I really couldn't tell you, but thank you. Because those are the kind of moments that you, I mean, when you have young children, you tell your kids, show don't tell. I just did show don't tell.

[A]

So that's interesting. Okay, but what do you say about the analysts who think that we have so much more to climb just because of what's going to be needed in order to run the economy hot, in order to reshore, in order to pay for these critical minerals and the industrial and. And military projects that they're trying to finance?

[B]

No, there are multiple fundamental reasons for gold to have been rallying. But going up $500 in one day ain't normal. That's meme stock.

[A]

Do you disagree that it's eventually in the next, let's say, decade going to go?

[B]

I mean, let's just Cut to the chase. I own it.

[A]

But you don't think it's going to like 10,000 an ounce in the next five to 10 years?

[B]

I can't say. I really, I simply cannot say. Well, what do you. I don't know. I mean it's that magnitude of a rally would suggest that there was a permanent portfolio reallocation to the asset class. That all the sell side bankers that have like woken up and had a cup of coffee and said gold and all and now they're all putting it as part of their cute little pie. You know, here's a pie of your portfolio. You should put 10% in precious metals. I mean this is all very new to Wall Street.

[A]

Well, everyone's underexposed, right? I mean everyone that I've talked to from the financial advisory world, it's been primarily bonds and equities with very little if any gold exposure at all.

[B]

So I mean, I mean it is, it is, it is an appropriate stance to have because in the event of financial crises something, especially when Uncle Sam is spending like a drunken sailor, something has to hedge your portfolio. You always want to have protection. You always want to own protection. That's why you insure your home against burning down to the ground. Because you want to have protection. In case it does.

[A]

Do you think that we are changing the monetary anchor underlying the entire system back to gold?

[B]

No, you don't.

[A]

You still think it'll be primarily treasuries?

[B]

I do. And they're about to centrally clear those puppies and make sure nothing happens to them that happened during COVID BitKey is.

[A]

A Bitcoin hardware wallet with multi sig security, inheritance and a recovery system designed for real life. No complex setup, no seed phrase, just true self custody without the stress. It was named one of Time's best inventions in 2024. Use code STORIES for 20% off at BitKey World. Up next, the Bitcoin way. There's only one way to protect your Bitcoin from government, politicians and third party risk and that is 100% self custody. My friends at the Bitcoin will train you how to do this the right way the first time. No compromises. Go to thebitcoinway.com Natalie to speak with the experts about making sure your bitcoin is secure and private. Finally, Bitcoin IRA. With Bitcoin IRA you can invest in Bitcoin24.7 inside a tax advantaged IRA. Choose a traditional IRA to defer taxes or a Roth IRA for tax free withdrawals. When you retire, take control of Your Future with Bitcoin IRA, head to Bitcoin IRA.com Natalie for up to a 1000 doll dollar funding bonus. Well, can we unpack that a little bit more? Because it seems like every single country has come to the understanding that we're just going to print our way out of every crisis. And we also weaponize the dollar right in 2022 under the Biden administration and the Russia Ukraine war. So it's only natural that our adversaries and really countries around the world diversify their holdings away from U.S. treasuries, which we ultimately control and we expand the supply of constantly to finance these deficits. So that to me signals that on a fundamental structural level we are turning away from US Treasuries as that base layer. Almost taking a step back.

[B]

Maybe, maybe. And we've definitely seen over the last few decades or so foreign central bank holdings of Treasuries decline. I mean, the data is available on a monthly basis. The TIPS report comes out after the close. So it's a genuine phenomena. It is. But this is my advice to the world that wants to shift gears and de dollarize the next time we have a global financial crisis. We're talking about developed markets, emerging markets, people who sell bonds don't issue new debt in dollars. Try that on for size and then see what happens. Then maybe you wouldn't have 87% of all FX transactions every single day in dollars because that's what makes the world go round. Next time we have a crisis, don't issue debt in dollars. Now if they can do that, then you will take the treasury out of its pole position. If they fall back on. Well, it's the reserve currency and it's the safest thing we can do. And our currency's melting down, so we better issue in dollars or people won't buy our sovereign debt. What are we going to do? I mean, just today there's a meltdown in the nasdaq, there's a meltdown in Bitcoin, there's a meltdown in the precious metals complex. And you know what? Brazil's melting down. Which one doesn't match here? Oh, Brazil. And yet it's collateral damage to everything that's happening in the United States. So the next time we have a crisis, if everybody continues to issue debt in dollars, it's just going to be circular.

[A]

Well, I mean, history has told us that we're basically going to go back to QE eventually. Right. So when do you think that will be? Because I think that it's inevitable. I Think we don't have the time.

[B]

I think when passive breaks. Okay, I think when passive breaks, do.

[A]

You think that's this year? Do you think we're further away from it?

[B]

I mean, it's so hard to say. I'm writing about this right now. It is so hard to say, when is passive going to break? It's why Michael Burry shut down Scion. I mean, it's that existential of a question. There's been some recent research done that suggests that when 83% of flows go into passive, the entire stock market, the entire risky asset complex collapses. I mean, we're just over 50% flows into passive now. But that's a tale. At some point we will get there. 2029, the last of your baby boomers retires, meaning they're living on a fixed income. You know, if, if the Fed goes back to the zero bound and decimates savers again, are you going to expedite the death of passive? Yes, absolutely. Because they'll have to sell their stocks in order to raise money because they live on fixed incomes and they're in their 80s and they cannot go back into the workforce. So there are. Or you could simply have the top 10% say, I'm going to de risk just a little bit. The cape Schiller's at 41. It got to 44 in 2000. You know, maybe that's close enough to just take a little bit off the table. Anything could break passive, but nothing has yet.

[A]

I just think we're in such a mess. And when you see the political ramifications and people wanting now people that are more socialist in their policies because they're so desperate for handouts and more intervention and they've sort of gotten used to mommy, daddy, government kind of swing back and that's.

[B]

The pendulum will swing all the way back in 2028.

[A]

I think that's where we're going. And I think that we're gonna see across the board an increase in taxes and a fight to take as much economic power as possible. And I worry about people who are going to get their purchasing power absolutely decimated by however much more money printing they're gonna need to do.

[B]

I worry about it too. I mean, the only thing on our side right now is that China doesn't have the money to invade Taiwan. That's about it. That's the firebreak.

[A]

I mean, that's an interesting point because I've seen so many statistics recently about China, about their industry, about their competitiveness, about their gold reserves and everything. Seems to be extremely, you know, favorable to them as. As becoming the superpower in many ways, including with their yuan kind of being. Being a medium of exchange. More and more.

[B]

They're just. The problem is they've got a little bit more debt than we do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's a black box and unquantifiable.

[A]

It's also. We don't even know how much gold they actually have. Right. I mean, we don't know how much.

[B]

Anything they actually have.

[A]

Right. It's. You have to trust them at their word and at the numbers that they present at any time.

[B]

Well, word is on the street that Xi Jinping has not only burned through his enemies, but his allies. So things could get kind of. In China, really.

[A]

See, I guess from the analysts that I read, I got this impression that China's actually in a position of tremendous leverage, especially because of how much they've built out their energy infrastructure and their processing monopoly over things like these critical minerals that we now desperately need in order to reshore industry.

[B]

There is a way to get these rare earths much more cheaply. There's been a ton of money poured into it, and we will succeed in extracting these rare men. In fact, I think that's one of the places that you could safely park your money is whatever company. And there are several companies out there who are working on making the extraction of rare earths less damaging to the environment because China doesn't care. Just dump it in their backyard. They'll poison anything. You take that leverage away. Using technology, using technological advances to get the rare earths we're sitting on across the country. Yay.

[A]

But to your earlier point, do we have that skilled labor? I feel like what we have is a bunch of young people who have gotten liberal arts degrees and we don't have enough welders.

[B]

But I mentioned that I had a woman who walked in and painted my ceiling. I mean, there is a. I think there is a much broader recognition not. Not in Gen Z, but the generation behind them, of what is the value of a college degree? Should I go into a trade? And if we quit paying my. Paying people money to not work, which we did after Covid, you kind of force the issue and. No, I. What you're describing is a way to actually, for lack of a better term, make America great again in the real sense, not in the MAGA sense. Got it. I'm not trying to be political, but I'm saying if we had a better balance in our workforce, oh, 100%. That it would be a much better Place to live?

[A]

No, 100%.

[B]

And my electricity, my electrician and my plumber, they'd all charge less. Oh, 100% supply and demand.

[A]

Well, yeah. I mean that's where things are getting really crazy and dicey. And that's why I think that we have to elect the right people. Because otherwise I think that there's going to be more and more of a, I don't know, like a welfare state.

[B]

Very serious note. We have to remember that when the incumbency, when the revolving door in the White House was last moving this fast, the last person to walk through that door was Abraham Lincoln.

[A]

So are you bullish or bearish? Because it seems like you share some of my concerns about just the greater the public and how they're going to fare over these next few years.

[B]

I'm hopeful.

[A]

You're hopeful?

[B]

I really am. I have to be. I mean I've got a 21 year old, a 19 year old turning 20 in two days and two 18 year olds. I better be hopeful. And I am hopeful that, that there is a public backlash against a Congress that is literally lame. Has been lamed up from day one. They haven't accomplished anything. Nothing. They're quiet, they're like little mice. They represent the United States, the people of the United States. And they're completely intimidated by the current administration. They're paralyzed. They haven't done anything. I'm hopeful that people like me will run for office. I really am.

[A]

Is that a tease? Are you going to run?

[B]

No, not right now.

[A]

No.

[B]

No.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

Four kids in college, a little busy running a big research firm. Need to write a sequel, I'm told.

[A]

Oh yeah. To fed up.

[B]

To fed up, I'm told for sure. But we need more rational people and we need, we need young people to enter politics. Yes, we really, really do.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of people are just feeling that disillusionment and of course they are. They're feeling behind, you know, what's the alternative?

[B]

Socialism. I lived in Venezuela, I know what socialism did. I witnessed it with my own eyes. We don't need socialism in America, but that's what we're headed for.

[A]

Well, look what's happening in New York already. I mean, I try not to. There was a warning from the previous mayor saying we're going to hit it deficit if we keep spending like this. And now we have a new mayor who comes in and says we have a $10 billion deficit. We inherited from the last one and now we got to raise everybody's taxes. So do you think people are going to start to flee? So many people have already left for states like Texas and Florida. It seems like that's the direction everything's going in.

[B]

You can. I mean, the only people who can afford to say are the billionaires.

[A]

It's so crazy. It's so crazy. I mean, you look out and it's like. And all the division, it's just making us. I don't know, it's like bringing out the worst versions of ourselves on online. Right. Like everyone's pitted against each other. People can't be friends if they're on.

[B]

Different political aisles here with the people hiding behind this veil of anonymity on these platforms. Yeah. I'm like, if you're going to be critical, for God's sake, put your face on it. Grow a pair. Seriously.

[A]

True. So if you were in a position at, say, the Fed or in the administration, what would you do to get this country back on track economically? Give me, like, three things you do.

[B]

I would remove the Fed's employment mandate and completely re engineer the Fed. I mean, completely. It's in chapter. It's in the last chapter of Fed Up. I explain how to do that. So I would. I would reopen the Federal Reserve Act. That's one thing I would do. I would work with private companies like Eisenhower did to build out the national highway system, to find solutions to create the next generation of job creators, whatever they may be. This is the United States. We should be the innovators. You said three things, right? Yes. I would. I would probably tie more. I would probably make it harder to get to not to get paid to not work. That's how I'll put it.

[A]

I love that. That one's a big one because it just drives the wrong incentives all across the world.

[B]

It does, but it also completely hollows out the middle class.

[A]

Completely.

[B]

And we have to go back to being a country where every single child can get a good education. Look, I look at the silver lining of COVID and what is it like? Venomous teachers unions forced children to learn from home for much longer than they had to. But now we know that people can learn some things online. So why don't we use AI? Why don't we spread the wealth of the world's best educators and deliver them to all of our children? Why don't we make public education a priority in this country? Public education. Not just the best private schools that money can buy. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, we've got so many issues, and it's crazy to look at things Like, I saw this post recently that you might be interested in about how the dollar priced in gold when it comes to minimum wage. So the federal minimum wage was about A$60 in the early 1970s, and it could buy a certain amount of gold. And today, if you fast forward, if it just maintained that purchasing power measured in gold, we should be at like a $225 minimum wage, but we're at 750 on a federal level. Like that disparity, I think is what people are starting to see and going, my dollar is worth nothing.

[B]

Corporate greed is. It's corporate greed in America is third World.

[A]

What solves it?

[B]

Laws, Politicians with spines, eradicating the beltway of lobbyists.

[A]

We're dreaming though.

[B]

Limits.

[A]

I know. Why can't we get that? Everyone wants it, right? Every single voter wants that.

[B]

After you get it, after the Civil war, Natalie, that you fear so much, that's when you get it. That's when you change the Constitution. But did I mention 21? Almost 20, 18 and 18. I really don't want a civil war.

[A]

Right. I know that this is what's frustrating is most people actually agree on these things. If you were to poll the average voter, they want term limits. They want more accountability. They don't want Congress like trading stocks. I mean, we had one recently, United Health Care.

[B]

They sold like amendment. Changing the Constitution with amendments, which can be done by the people.

[A]

Well, I guess. I mean, you're hopeful about this. More so than I get to say. I better be hopeful. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like we're politically. We will find no solutions. That's the only reason that I've resorted to trying to go to something like Bitcoin, which is a form of hard money. I know that you're not as optimistic about it, but I feel I do.

[B]

Track it much more closely than I ever have, though.

[A]

Do you? Okay. So do you have any thoughts about a tool that could be used in order to bring about more accountability on a monetary level so that people can't spend so much because you can't inflate the supply of something like Bitcoin again?

[B]

Start by reopening the Federal Reserve Act. Outlaw what created the degradation of money.

[A]

So would you have money backed by something again?

[B]

You're talking about the world ending.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I'm sorry, but you are. You're talking about the world ending. Why? Because there's too much. What you're talking about is a debt jubilee. And could you do a debt jubilee but just sovereign. I don't know. I Don't know.

[A]

So would it be a debt jubilee to revalue gold at 10,000 an ounce when it gets there, or no?

[B]

No. A debt jubilee would mean canceling all debt.

[A]

I don't think they would do that.

[B]

But I think that's what they have to do. That's what they would have to do. If you want to reset, you would have to do that. If you moved back onto the gold standard, you would have a global depression overnight.

[A]

But if we revalued our gold holdings to say, 10,000, 15,000 an ounce, couldn't that be used to address the debt without a debt jubilee?

[B]

Possibly for the United States, but again, the rest of the world is up to their eyeballs in debt.

[A]

In dollar denominated debt.

[B]

In dollar denominated debt as well. So there is no elegant solution that is isolated to the United States. It just doesn't. I mean, that's not how the world works. I want to be your age and believe in such things, but there's this thing called practicality.

[A]

So it's interesting cause you're almost more hopeful on us finding a political solution. I feel like we will not. I'm more hopeful on the bitcoin side, us finding the Monet. So why are you tracking bitcoin more closely and what do you think about the underperformance compared to things like gold?

[B]

I'm tracking bitcoin more closely because I don't have to look at other markets. I can just look at it to know where all the other markets are.

[A]

Why do you think it's underperforming so much?

[B]

Because it's the riskiest asset class on planet Earth. It's a way to express risk appetite.

[A]

It is wild to see that it's the debasement hedge to the younger generations. But it's not performing that way, at least not right now. Everyone's fleeing to gold and to silver. But the stocks have done tremendously well. We hit what, S&P 500 at 7,000. But I don't know. I look at all of this and I'm like, it's when you price things in dollar terms, everything looks great. And then you start pricing things in gold or bitcoin and you see an extremely different picture. Things absolutely tanking in these real terms as opposed to nominal dollar terms.

[B]

Again, if the dollar's going down, I'm happy. I've got 20 acres in the middle of nowhere in Texas.

[A]

I know we've talked about that before. It's like you need land, you need commodities, you need gold, you Need, I think bitcoin instead of gold. But so if someone's watching this and they're not in that position, they're one of the folks that are exchanging their time for wages and a paycheck. They're scared that maybe AI will take their job. Like, what should the average person do? Because maybe they are sitting there going, I need a Mamdani because that's the only way I'll survive.

[B]

They need to look for other leaders. They need to understand, they need to, they need to start doing their own fact checking. What the average American needs to do is to stop having other people tell them what reality is. They need to understand how manipulative major media is and how much more manipulative social media is. These are basic lessons. If again, it goes back to public education, it goes back to public education. I think that one of the downsides to AI could be that our children stop thinking I do. And we need to go the opposite direction. We need to be able to find unbiased facts and learn in every human being. Regardless of your income status, every human being can learn. And that's all we've got. That's all we've got to. And if human beings study how many babies died in hospitals in Caracas, if they understand what socialism really does to a country. Right. Really does to a country, then they'll stop and they'll step back. Yeah, but they have to understand the facts.

[A]

I mean, I can tell how passionate you are about this. And my family coming from communism. I agree. Because some of the things they're seeing, it's crazy to talk to my parents. They're like, we moved away from the direction that we're actually going in now as a country, and that's scary. And now they look back at, you.

[B]

Know, China's we biggest leverage is America going to socialism, then they can rise.

[A]

So crazy. It's so crazy. Okay, so what are your key takeaways for the audience in terms of like, action items? Whether that's where they should allocate their portfolio or how, how they can prepare themselves?

[B]

I think people, look, they call me a perma bear, not a perma bear. I mean, we have right now, our clients know that we're, we favor utilities. We're. And we say to pair that with, you know, going against the financials right now because actual losses are starting to be recognized in commercial real estate. We think hard about where we tell our clients to put our money. But in the most general, general sense, you have to be at least aware of where valuations are right now. You have to be aware that a year ago the AI revolution was being was being funded with cash flow. Now it's being funded with debt. And yes, you did, you just, you just open your eyes, observe, look at the markets and tell yourself where your risk appetite fits. In terms of where we are with valuations today and the potential for the highest value stocks, it's just so crazy.

[A]

I mean, even the prediction market stuff, it's like we're all going into, there's.

[B]

A few people who control it well.

[A]

Also, we're just all becoming speculators and gamblers because the money is so bad right now and no one knows what to do. So they're playing these lotto tickets. But Danielle, always so great to talk to you. Thank you so much. How can people find your work?

[B]

So please come read the Daily Feather. My gosh. We publish every single trading day of the year, no matter where I am on planet Earth or stuck in an Airport for nine hours in a snowstorm. But demartinabooth.substack.com, we're running a great promotion to start out 2026. Yada yada yada. And if you don't already follow me on the social media platform formerly known as Princess I mean Twitter, please do follow me. And if you're an institutional investor, Google QI Research and we'll, we'll help you run your money.

[A]

Well, it's awesome to follow your work. You travel more than I do. I thought I travel a lot, but Danielle's got me on that. So thank you so much for joining me.

[B]

I'm at the airport right now and thank you for having me. What a good way to end a trip.

[A]

Thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. If you can, turn on those notifications and leave us a positive review, they really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up@the newsblock.substack.com this show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as financial investment advice and you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach my [e-mail] I'll see you next time.