← Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Dr. Shawn Baker: What's Actually Making Us Fat and Sick (And Why It's So Profitable)
00:47:08
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- [00:00]
A
Food can be medicine, but at the same time, food can be damaging. And I think that's what's happening. And a lot of the stuff that we've seen sort of enter the food supply over the last really hundred years has led to some of this chronic disease epidemic that we have. You know, a lot of the food is intentionally engineered to be as addictive as possible. That's the reality.
- [00:25]
B
Everyone, welcome back to the show. Joining me this week is Dr. Sean Baker. He's an orthopedic surgeon turned health and wellness, wellness thought leader. He wrote the Carnivore Diet. You're really known as the Carnivore guy, but I know we're going to talk about a lot more. So, Dr. Baker, thanks for joining me.
- [00:39]
A
Natalie, thanks for having me. I was going to say I've, I've sort of been known you for a few years now, kind of off and on. So it's a real, real honor and pleasure to be.
- [00:46]
B
Well, I'm glad to hear that you're a bitcoiner, but let's talk about health and wellness first, because that seems to be your area of expertise. First, for those in my audience who maybe are less familiar with you, can you share your backstory because you have such a fascinating story with your military Air Force experience and now becoming one of the, you know, one of the voices of the Make America Healthy Again movement.
- [01:08]
A
Yeah, so I mean, I was, you know, conventionally trained as an MD I had a few, sort of a little bit of a securitus route. I mean, I started medical, I went to college, got a biology degree at University of Texas, hook em horns and then started medical school. I left to go play professional rugby because I was still, you know, young athlete. I got, got an opportunity to play in New Zealand. So I did that for a few years. Came back, was not ready to quit playing because I was only like 25 or something like that. So I, so I joined the military so I could play rugby for the military. And you know, that was my reason for going in because back in the 90s, rugby was, was not a very well supported sport except in the military in the US and so I joined the military, went in the Air Force. It's got a funny story. I was sitting around playing rugby. I was talking to these, I was talking to a Navy guy, a Marine guy, an army guy, coast guard guy, all of those guys that go in the Air Force. So I said, okay, I'll go to Air Force. And so I joined the Air Force, worked as a, as a nuclear Weapons guy for. For about five years. Played rugby for the armed forces team, left, then went back to medical school, you know, and then finished out my. My training. I did a civilian residency in Texas in orthopedics. I then had to go back into the military because they'd help fund that. And so then I spent five more years in the military and spent some of that time deployed to, like, Afghanistan, doing a bunch of kind of really hairy trauma, some crazy stuff over the years. And. And then, you know, then just went back into my practice and was practicing medicine, practicing orthopedics, doing thousands of, you know, surgeries. And then I started to get interested in nutrition, primarily for my own purposes. You know, I was getting older. I was. I remember I was in my sort of mid-40s. I'm about to, you know, getting close to 60 now. So I was in my mid-40s and was just like, I don't feel that good. So I started playing with nutrition, and I'd always been an athlete. I've been training my whole life still and still do. And. And I started noticing, you know, for me, I started feeling better. And at that time, we had patients that were just obese. Like, there's plenty of them, and they were. They needed knee replacements. And so the local consensus among orthopedic surgeons, hey, we need to stop bringing people the OR that are obese because the complication rates are higher. So we all agreed across the whole city to say, hey, we're not going to offer these procedures unless people lose weight first. Except there was no, like, instructions on how to do that. You know, it's just like, good luck getting people to lose weight. You know, it's always been a tough challenge. So I, at that time, was doing a ketogenic style of diet, and it was working well for me. So I said, well, let me drop my patients. And, you know, not all of them would do it, of course, but some of them would. And the ones that did. One of the things that really blew me away was many of them would come back two weeks later and say, you know what? Hey, document. I know we're scheduled for surgery and, you know, three or four months from now, but my knee doesn't hurt anymore. And. And, you know, these are people that had really bad X rays that were. That would normally. I would say, hey, let's pick it ER and do a knee replacement. So I started seeing that more and more, and that started interesting me. And so I started to, you know, started to talk to the hospital administration about, hey, you know, what I'm seeing these things happen and I'd like to pursue that more. I'd like to start practicing a bit more lifestyle medicine. And the response was really sort of at the end, it was really shocking to me because the answer was basically, no, we don't want you to do that. Which I was like, kidding me, right?
- [04:20]
B
Why?
- [04:21]
A
Well, because that's where they make their money, is on the procedures. And you know, for, for a hospital even, you know, profit, non profit, the money makers are the proceduralist. So most of the surgeons, particularly subspecialists and orthopedists, operate a hell of a lot. I mean, we were one of the most operative, intensity, intense surgical specialties. Things like cardiology, particularly interventional cardiology, oncology, where they, they give you all the chemotherapy. Those things make a lot of money for hospitals. And if you start to dial that back a little bit, they're not at all happy about that. And so I think it became very clear to me that they were not interested in me doing anything lifestyle related. It was just, you know, get these people into the. Or get as many as you possibly can. We'll pay you more money if you do that. But if you don't do that, you know, we're not, we're not excited about having you here. So, you know, over a couple years, I realized that this isn't what I wanted to do ethically anymore. This didn't make sense. And so I, you know, kind of with a great deal of risk, went out and sort of sort of said, I'm going to practice lifestyle stuff. And so that's what I've been doing for the last, last 10 years now. It's been a while. Then I wrote the Carnivore diet book, which is crazy. You know, it's like, you know, this all meat thing. The interesting thing about that is that, yes, it's crazy. Yes, it goes against everything we thought we've known about nutrition, but the reality is it just gets results. And probably over the time, you've probably ran into people that have had significant success. You know, really, the one of the guests here, you know, the fellow from the Bitcoin museum, I just, just talked to him, he said, hey, Doc, I saw you in December. My knee was all messed up. I went on your. I went on this Carnivore diet. I lost 20 pounds. My knees stopped hurting. So we see that over and over again. And so I've been just sort of interested by this. And finally we're getting research done. There's going to be the first randomized control trial happening right now actually help to sort of kind of get that thing moving. So yeah, that's. That's kind of an overview.
- [06:10]
B
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- [07:36]
A
To pay in Bitcoin instead of credit cards. We are saving about 50% in our processing fees.
- [07:42]
B
This led to more support from Bitcoin users and a 10% revenue boost. Getting started is easy. Sign up@tryspeed.com or integrate the API in hours. Start accepting Bitcoin today. Download Speed at Speed app Coinstories or the QR code on the screen and use code COINSTORIES10 for 5,000 free SATs. That is so fascinating. I mean so many places to explore. I guess where I'll start is we're seeing more and more people recognize that our food has changed. So I'm sure you recognize this when you started studying nutrition. Which by the way, I've heard a lot of doctors don't even cover this in medical school. And so you're taught to almost just prescribe a pill or do a procedure, but really holistically, when you look at our food system, we've destroyed it. I mean, everything has a million preservatives. We, what once had maybe five ingredients now has 20. Half of them, you don't even know what they are because they'll say something like natural flavors, but they're a bunch of chemicals. What can you describe to people what actually happened and how is it impacting their bodies? Whereas a more pure form, a pure diet like carnivore, takes away all of that and returns us to the things that our bodies can naturally process.
- [08:53]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's. That's a really, you know, good observation. And the fact that, you know, a lot of people have success in a carnival is because they're removing a lot of the. The things that are problematic for humans. You know, I think, you know, food is obviously essential. We, we all need to eat. It's critically important. So we get the nutrition we. We require. Food can be medicine, but at the same time, food can be damaging. And I think that's what's happening. And a lot of the stuff that we've seen sort of enter the food supply over the last, really 100 years has, has led to some of this chronic disease epidemic that we have. You know, a lot of the food is intentionally engineered to be as addictive as possible. I mean, I literally, I spoke to a. Remember, I had a. A lady who was, you know, in her 60s, retiring from the food industry, and she was a. She was a chemist. She is a food chemist. And she was just, you know, written with guilt over the fact that her job was to make food as addictive as possible. She worked one of the major food companies. I won't share which one it was. But anyway, she was telling me that, like, my job is literally get people addicted to food. I feel horrible about it, you know, but that's the reality. And the thing that, you know, I've seen it. And again, I'm not here to tell people that everybody needs to be on a carnivore diet. I don't think that's true. Humans are omnivores. I've said that, or even when I wrote my book, I said that very specifically. But when it comes to treating disease and helping people with things like food addiction and just figuring out problems, it's a wonderful tool. I think that, you know, we have this. Probably some people are not familiar with this grass designation. This generally recognized as safe for food. Ingredients. So you take this chemical that no one's ever eaten before, you add it to a food, you know, either preserve its shelf life or, you know, enhances flavor, texture, or whatever it might be. And the testing on that is almost minimal. They might feed it to a few rats, see if the rats die, see if they get cancer. If they don't, they say, yeah, we think this is generally recognized, it's safe and it gets in the food supply. Whereas in Europe, it's the opposite. You have to rigorously prove that these foods do not cause disease in humans. And that's why there's such a discrepancy there. And so, sure, some of that is the issue. And then I think, obviously, you know, we have a huge obesity epidemic. You know, right now, obviously, a lot of people are pushing these drugs for that. I mean, that's, that's the thing. All these, you know, incretin, hormone mimetics, the GLP1s and so on and so forth. And so again, if we look at the pharmaceuticals solution to any of these problems, it is always results in people take drugs rest of their life because it's such a good business model. And that's what it's around. It's not about curing disease. And, and I would argue, and I think this is the thing about the healthcare system in general, the incentives. And you're right, you know, physicians don't get a lot of training on nutrition. We get some. And we, we learn about nutrient deficiencies and we learn some basic stuff, but we don't really talk about it. We don't learn that food actually can treat disease, which is what it does, which it really does. And we don't like. I, I never saw in my years of training in orthopedics even a sentence that said, did you know that by changing people's food, their arthritis can get better? Never once did I ever see that written anywhere. And, and for the most part, I never thought it was true. I remember I would have patients that come to me. I remember this one poor woman years ago, she came in and she was telling me about how, like, she noticed it when she ate bread and gluten, that her knee would hurt. And I just thought she was crazy. I just. Let me look at your mri. I don't care about that stuff. I was literally like, I was locked in and trained as. I was trained as every other physician is. It's because. And this is a thing that I hear often from physicians, even those that will say that, you know, I tell my patients to Lose. I tell my patients better and eat better and maybe exercise, but they never do it right. So, you know, after years of that, what they, what they conclude is, you know, people just won't do it. So I'm just going to give them a pill. Why wait? Why beat around the bush and waste time? Let's just go straight to the pills. And so this is what most physicians, that is the misconception they're laboring under. Now. The reality is, is like for instance, if I, you know, was examining you and I determined you needed knee surgery, right? Let's just say whatever you have a torn ACL or something like that. I have so much support, so much resource at my disposal. I have MRI scanners, physical therapy department, lab departments, you know, you know, pre op, post op, $200aminute operating room. I've got millions of other resources to make that thing happen surgically. But if I were to tell you, you know, you got another issue, I said, you know what I think? Change your diet, start exercising a little bit, you know, get better sleep, you know, get out in the sunshine. If I tell you to do that, I've got zero resources for that. And so when you tell someone, hey, this is a problem, go fix it yourself. It's like if I said to you, hey, Natalie, you need an ACL replacement or reconstruction rather. And you go, okay. And I said, well, go figure it out yourself. Go do it. That's the same analogy. That's why when people say they practice lifestyle medicine and yet they don't facilitate that, of course they're going to fail. And so this is something like our company, Rivero, which we, I founded several years ago. We, we, we treat patients, but we actually, I mean, we literally talk to them every day. I mean, we provide, you know, health support, coaching, whole team physicians that are dedicated to helping people make these lifestyle change and making them stick so that they can get off the medication, fix their health, treat the root cause. And to me, that is, I think, the better application of medicine in many cases now. Yes, some people are still going to need surgery. Traumas are going to happen, you know, kids are going to get born, people are going to get infections, and that's where healthcare shines, I think. But I mean, when it comes to chronic diseases, RFK and many others have pointed out we fail abysmally.
- [14:18]
B
Absolutely. And it makes me think about those who have pointed out that you can't patent, like whole foods that come out of the ground. You can't patent, patent like the sunshine. That's Shining on us. Those are the things that we really need. But instead you're kind of pointed to, oh, there's a pill for this. Oh, there's this pharmaceutical answer. And we should be more critical and asking those questions. But people tend to trust the health system much more than they should, right? Like if the FDA approved it, we're good. If the CDC says so, we're good. Why do you think that is? And why should people be a little bit more skeptical?
- [14:50]
A
Well, and I think, to be fair, I mean, think people are a lot more. Are a lot more people are skeptical, I think. And I think Covid accelerated that significantly. I think pre covet, I think most people viewed their physicians, I think about 70% of Americans viewed physicians as trustworthy and favorable. After cover, that number dropped into the 40s. And so we saw a massive decrease in the overall trust. And I think that's for, you know, in many ways for good reason. It's not that physicians are bad people or don't care, not trying to do their best. It's just that the system they are in is set up again for business. You know, if we look at the growth of, say, hospital administration over the last 30, 40 years, it's, it's increased, you know, something like, you know, tenfold, whereas physician. Physicians have been flattened. So it's become more and more the business in medicine, the art of medicine is long gone. We don't care about curing disease or promoting health. We, we do what's called disease management. And, and that, I remember when that term first came out, I was like, what does management mean? Like, what does that mean? And what it means is you just put them on pills for us, your life.
- [15:52]
B
Well, to your point, the cure is not profitable.
- [15:54]
A
Correct? Correct. It isn't. And, and you know, there was a Goldman Sachs, another fun, you know, financial institute I'm sure you're familiar with, did an analysis and they asked the question, does it make sense for pharmaceutical companies to cure disease? And the resounding answer was no. It makes zero financials. And, you know, they have a fiduciary responsibility, shareholders and, you know, and so on and so forth. It's always the same thing. So. And again, when we have a broken money system, it facilitates this.
- [16:18]
B
I don't want to go down a conspiracy rabbit hole, but I have heard from very intelligent, credible people that we have had in the past, people who came across maybe a cure for something like diabetes or other things that really require lifelong treatment, and that essentially it was buried and it was hidden because it would literally destroy an industry. Do you think that's true?
- [16:41]
A
I think that it's not unplausible to me. I mean, I think it is something that probably. And, you know, there was a. There was a drug that was used for hepatitis and it was actually very effective. It's curative. And they actually ran it for a while and it literally, the market dried up because it cured all the people. So, yeah, they don't, they don't try to do that very much anymore. You know, we've been curing cancer for, you know, 100 years now. We still don't have a cure. By the way, cancer drugs are some of the most profitable drugs on planet Earth, by the way. So these things, you know, and again, it's about extending long lifespan a little bit, but not curing disease because they don't want you to be free of the drugs because the drugs are where the money is, and so they don't.
- [17:23]
B
Want to kill you.
- [17:23]
A
So it's like, yeah, the optimal situation is you. You kind of stay sick your whole life, but you're medicated your whole life. And if we can extend that lifespan, you know, for 40 or 50 years, rather than having you die after 20, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna triple our profits or whatever that might be. So, yeah, I mean, I think when they think about what are we going to do, they look at creating markets. Right. So, you know, I'll go back to these GLP1 drugs. You know, everybody's familiar with Ozempic by now and, and the various other versions that have come out. And one of the concerns early on was, you know, a lot of muscle loss, people will say, well, it's not the drug because when people lose weight, they lose muscle anyway. And, you know, because some people saying there was a. There was a sort of an unacceptable high rate of muscle loss associated with the weight loss. And for many people, that's the truth. And, you know, the way to mitigate that is to protein, exercise, to strength train. But people are saying that's not a real problem. And yet at the same time, the same companies that are making the weight loss drugs are now making drugs and they're spending millions of dollars on this to make drugs to mitigate weight loss with these things. So now you're on two drugs which, you know, and so they're going to cut, you know, you know, because as you probably are aware, you know, Trump has got a deal with these drug companies to voluntarily lower these costs so they can get on the Medicare, you know, on the Medicare pharmacy. And so what happens is you know that, you know that'll happen and then, but there's no legal obligation, they're doing it voluntary. So what happens in three years from now? They say you know what, we're going to raise prices. So now, so I think this is a, this is a cynical side of me because I've been around long enough and seen drug after drug and you see these promises and oh, it's a wonderful drug and there's minimal side effects and he's all these benefits and the, you know, you know the old adage is nothing ruins success like long term results because you know, once you start getting the 10 year data in there and we see the recidivism rates and we see the people that can't tolerate the drugs, right? And then they rapidly gain the weight and now they're in a situation where you know, they've lost extra muscle mass and so now they have sarcopenic obesity. So now they're obese plus they have no muscle mass. So then they're, you know, their overall outcome is far worse.
- [19:26]
B
And we've all heard the stories where there was a commercial advertising a drug and 10 years later it's pulled off, there are lawsuits. Are you someone that took this like it's really crazy? And one of the reasons why I hate the GDP metric is because the sicker we are, the better our GDP is, right? I mean it's so, so, so backwards. And we measure the strength by how many people are relying on this because then obviously they're spending money. Bitkey is a bitcoin hardware wallet with multi sig security, inheritance and a recovery system for real life. No complex setup, no seed phrase, just true self custody without the stress. It was named one of time's best inventions in 2024. Use code STORIES for 20% off at BitKey World. Up next, the Bitcoin way. There's only one way to protect your Bitcoin from government, politicians and third party risk and that is 100% self custody. My friends at the Bitcoin Way will train you how to do this the right way the first time. No compromises. Go to thebitcoinway.com Natalie to speak with the experts about making sure your bitcoin is secure and private. Finally, Bitcoin IRA. With Bitcoin IRA you can invest in Bitcoin24.7 inside a tax advantaged IRA. Choose a traditional IRA to defer taxes or a Roth IRA for tax free withdrawals. When you retire, take control of your Future with Bitcoin IRA, head to Bitcoin IRA.com Natalie for up to a $11,000 funding bonus. I wanted to ask you about something that was in the news recently. Oprah went viral. She was on the View and she talked about how she realized that her, her weight struggle was not because of her choices. It was something she couldn't control, that overeating was something that was genetic. Do you agree?
- [21:10]
A
I don't agree it's genetic. I mean, I will. Let me just be more, more sort of nuanced in this. There are people that, in the right environment, they will tend to put on more weight than other people. I mean, that, that I think is, is clear. But to say that obesity is wholly genetic and unrelated to what you put in your mouth is nonsense. And, you know, there are people that, you know, have been obese and they have made a lot necessary lifestyle modifications and they put in the hard work and they've lost weight. And, you know, someone like Oprah Winfrey who has all the resources in the world, you know, private chefs and can eat whatever she wants and trainers, you know, and still, you know, was not able to do that. I mean, you know, and I believe she's taking these drugs. I'm really convinced she, she started. I think she's. So, no, obesity is not. I mean, the reason the country is, it's full of many obese people is not due to genetics. I mean, it's, it's clearly the food environment. It's clearly a combination of things. Food is probably the underlying process. And again, as I mentioned earlier, people are designing drugs to be, or sorry, foods to be addictive. In fact, I've gone so far as to call these foods recreational drugs because they are, they act the same way. And you know, if you look at, look at, like, how do you define something as being addictive? It's like if I knowingly, if I know that this is going to be harmful to me, gambling, you know, pornography, you know, you know, whatever, whatever, alcohol. And yet I continue to do it over and over again. That's an addiction. And I think, I think most people would, would, you know, admit to that. And it's like, you know, people saying, people say, well, sugar's not addictive. And I would say, well, I think sugary foods can be, you know, like, you know, there's not a lot of people like snorting, you know, cane sugar, you know, up their nose. But I mean, there's plenty of people that you give them chocolate or cake or anything that's got sweetener you know, if I, if I made a cake and there was our chocolate bar with no sugar in it, you know, it's like dark chocolate, and it's like, doesn't taste that good. I can. But there are people that will say there's nobody out there, you know, on the street, you know, prostituting themselves so they get sugar. But I would say if we made it illegal and we increased the price, you know, thousand fold, and we made it, you know, unacceptable in society and so on and so forth, like we do with heroin and cocaine, all this other thing, you probably would get people to be doing this stuff. So, I mean, it's like, so there is a component of addiction to this. And it's, it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough one to crack because, you know, if you're, if you're an alcoholic, there's no reason you have to drink alcohol. You just don't have to do that. But if you're a food addict, you gotta eat. You have to eat. So you always have to. Every day you have to face this sort of demon. And again, it's the food choice change that. You know, I'm, you know, I'm sure if Oprah wins, free will allow someone to, like, keep her captive somewhere, feed her, and force her to physically move in a certain way. She would lose weight without the drugs. I mean, that's the reality. It's not the genetics, you know, and the drugs don't change the genetics anyway. So if she's saying it's purely genetic, well, then a drug would change.
- [24:15]
B
Then you have to be on that drug forever. Well, I mean, habits can be hard to, to change. And I do think that in our country, so I'm from Poland, and if you look across Europe, you see a very big difference in the average weight, right, of the. You go on the beach, right? People are a little bit skinnier than they are. And when you look at the food system, things tend to be more natural. You don't see as many artificial ingredients, you don't see as many chemicals. Things that are allowed here are literally banned in Europe. And I think that that does have something to do with it. So what would get us to a system that. That's more similar to countries where they take this more seriously, and they don't allow a bunch of additives into foods and preservatives in foods and. And they don't allow us to basically become as addicted as we are here?
- [25:01]
A
Well, you know, and this is a, this is a real challenge because, you know, as you probably are aware, they, they got food dyes sort of ban. Right. So 20, 28, they're supposed to take red dye number yellow, 40 and red. What? I can't remember the numbers. But anyway. But then again, a judge, federal judge, blocked that and said, look, because West Virginia was going to implement it earlier or something or start. And the judges said, no, you can't do this because the American Food Color Additive association, whoever they are, you know, spot a lawsuit. And, and this is, you know, and food colors are kind of a small, you know, let's say you tried to limit the sugar in the food, like federally. You said, look, we're going to, we're going to limit how much. There would be so much lawsuits. And you want, you know, you're seeing the same thing play out with like, you know, prior to the election when, when Kenny was saying, hey, we're going to ban advertising and pharmaceuticals on tv and Marty Macri was made head of the fda and he, I think he was, he was, he was receptive of that. And now we're not touching that because they know they're going to get, they're just going to get nailed with lawsuit after lawsuit and they've got such a financial influence over all the policies.
- [26:07]
B
So horrible.
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A
So it's, so, it's, I mean, you mean what we could do. Yeah, you could say let's ban all the ultra processed food, ban all the chemicals. The reality of that actually happening with our, you know, the system we have is going to be really hard. So I, I think really the realistic answer is educate, educate, educate, you know, get people take upon themselves. I mean, I'm all in favor of the concept of make America healthy again. And I wish Kenny and the rest of the crew all the success in the world, but the, the realist in me realizes that, you know, what these companies are doing is they're going to gum it up in the, in the legal system for a couple of years, wait for a new administration and then turn it back on. I mean that's, that's probably the most likely outcome. You might get a few symbolic, you know, concessions that are of kind of minimal effect. So it's ultimately comes to, to you and I and our families and say, look, we're just going to refuse to, I tell people, stop paying people to poison you. It's got to stop buying. Yeah, you know, I think it's, you know, you're seeing like what you're seeing now in the stores right now is a protein is good for it. People are recognizing that protein. So what are we seeing? Protein, potato chips, protein everything. Protein. D Dunkin Donuts. We got a protein. It's, it's just all. That's not the answer. I mean, the answer is again, eat, you know, actual foods that weren't modified and added 3,000 ingredients in there.
- [27:26]
B
Okay, I want to dig into that point just a little bit because today if you go to the average grocery store, you don't know if you can even trust the meat that's behind the counter or the things that claim that they're organic, the produce that's there. Everyone's pushing you to, you know, find a farmer near you because even they, they just recently tested like one of my favorite egg brands, Vital Farms. And they're like, this is filled with glyphosate. And I'm. Don't you see those videos right, where they're like, I can't drink this. It has too much plastic in it. But I can't drink the thing out of the faucet that's got a bunch of chemicals. So many of us are feeling like, well, what do I do? Like, do I have to find the guy that's going to butcher the, the cow in my backyard? Like, what should people do so that they aren't filling themselves with chemicals that they don't even realize are in the food?
- [28:09]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, I think, you know, if you stick to single ingredient foods, that's going to be, that's going to be 90%. You know, then you can argue about is this an organic, or how is that chicken raised or something like that. But the reality is that will do most of the heavy lifting. And again, you know, I, you know, I, you know, you people worried about touching receipts from the grocery store and if they're there, if there's plastic in their water and those things, those things to me, while they are real issues, I think when it comes to the impact on health, longevity are probably a little bit less important than, you know, eating just a diet that's 70% ultra processed, like the average American teenager eats or the 60% of the average American adult eats. And so I think those are the biggest steps. And then, you know, again, how do we assess health? And I think this is an important concept because there's so much noise out there about, you know, what is your, you know, you know, your level of, you know, the whatever blood marker you want to use, you can use, you know, you know, just ferritin level or potassium level. Are you, on and on, there's, there's literally thousands of markers you can track. And, and then, you know, if it's out of whack, what do you do with it? You add some magic supplement and you do all these things. And the reality is, I think for the most part focusing. And you know, my friend Rob Wolf, who wrote the Paleo Diet years ago, he's a guy but you know, he mentioned this sort of concept and I think it's true. It's like how do you look, how do you feel, how do you perform? If you take a close function, look at that, you know, you're probably going to do well. All the other stuff adds so much anxiety to that. And so I don't really. And again, I am wholly supportive of supporting our farmers and ranchers because these people are the salt of the earth. These are the people that, yeah, are, you know, it's really a national security issue. You think about that. We're thinking about, you know, if we have to depend on foreign countries for our food, real problem. So yeah, obviously support your local farmers and rancher. Buy local when you can stick the whole unprocessed ingredients. Learn to cook. Teach your kids how to cook. You know, my next book, I talk a lot about this stuff because I think it's important not only that you get healthy yourself, but then you pass it on. And so we have this, you know, they call this concept of generational health where, and it's interesting, one of the, as I was doing research for this book, I didn't realize this but you know, if you had physically fit grandparents, you are more likely to be healthier yourself. And it's not necessarily genetic because you think, well, yeah, there, you know, there's genetics there and it does play a role. But this concept of knowing where you come from. Like, like for instance, my grandfather, you know, he died at 95 years of age and he was from Chicago. He was a Golden Gloves champion of Chicago in boxing back in the 1930s. He was a, you know, scratch, you know, basically a zero handicap golfer. He was a professional baseball player. And I remember my dad saying, I don't mess with grandpa. And we always kind of revered grandpa as this old, you know, tough guy athlete. And that impacted me as a little kid, as a kid just to say, well, grandpa's pretty cool. Yeah. So you know, you want, that's what I'm going to do. I have kids, but I don't have grandkids yet. So I'm like, okay, if I can hang on long enough and, and, and sort of demonstrate some level of vigorous health, then that. That will rub off on your kids because they have this. They develop this lore, this family lore, and it has a bigger impact. There's one study that showed it was about an 85% effect that these kids that come from healthy grandparents, and of course, who you marry, who you decide to have kids with impacts, you know, impacts how your kids are going to be. So it is something that is. We just have to physically, you know, I mean, all of us collect. It's like, you know, kind of the bitcoin community. It's like, you know, one of us is not going to change anything. But when we all come. Come together and we all sort of hold the line, that's when big things happen. I think the same. The same thing has to happen in health.
- [31:51]
B
I love what you said. I mean, the reason that I love cooking so much is because I grew up in the kitchen with my mom cooking and with my grandma cooking. And they instilled that in me. So I think that's really important. And to your point about the farmers, we have to protect them because everything has gotten so consolidated that we no longer even know where our food chain is. I mean, we. We don't know if the beef is coming from another country. We can't trace it. And that's a huge issue as well. You brought up bitcoin a couple times, so let's talk about that. I mean, how did you get into bitcoin? And do you think that transitioning to maybe the bitcoin standard or, or mount more sound money could fix some of these insane incentives with our broken food and, and medical system?
- [32:34]
A
Well, absolutely. As you know, you. The. The common phrase bitcoin fixes that. Right, Right. So. And I do think, you know, having. Having sound money will make a huge difference, but as far as, you know, how I got into it. So Safedine Amos, who wrote Bitcoin Standard, was a carnivore guy. You know, he. He saw me on Rogan back when I was first on in 2017, and he approached me and said, hey, because I was a physician, I was the first physician to talk about eating all meat. And he said, hey, would you write a book with me? He was telling me, I'm an economist and I'm, you know, I like writing and stuff. And I said, and I don't really like writing, to be honest. Even though my second book, I'm not really. That wasn't my thing. But when I see, I'll write one with you. And he goes, well, I'm. Before we do that. I'm gonna finish out this other thing I've been working on. I said, what is that?
- [33:17]
B
This other thing.
- [33:18]
A
This other thing that was a bitcoin standard. So he wrote that book and then obviously he got really. Yeah, sort of tied up. And so I said, I'll just write it on my run in on my own. So I've known, say for, you know, gosh, is it. We're 20, 26 now, so almost 10 years. And so he was the one that primarily introduced me to bitcoin. I didn't start right in. I wish I would have. It wasn't until then I ran into a guy named Michael Goldstein, who's also Bitstein. I think he runs the. The Satoshi Institute or something in Austin, Texas. Maybe it's online. But anyway, but. But Mike's been a good guy. He. Another carnivore guy. And then I think I didn't really take the plunge, really, until I saw Michael Saylor talking about it. And it just, it disconnected enough with me to convince me. And I know he's a somewhat of a polarizing figure for some people, but I mean, I think he, you know, that was point where I was like, okay, let me just start, you know, and all I. All I do. And I'm not a. I'm not an expert about this stuff. I just, you know, dollar cost average, it is, you know, stack and hold, you know, they say, or huddle.
- [34:17]
B
That's awesome. I mean, I do think it's so connected. And when you follow the money, it. It shows some of the problems that you were spotlighting, which is that if you have a centralized form of money and the Cantillon effect, the money printer, it gets funneled into these agencies that then reinforce these studies that tell us things like, well, cholesterol is bad for you, the seed oils are great for you, and we have destroyed really the incentives that created competition and allowed for Whole Foods to be at the foundation of our food system. And now we have a new food pyramid, though, Right? Wanted to get your reaction to that.
- [34:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's very interesting, you know, and. And really, I mean, if you read the guidelines, they are. The transition is not as significant as you might think it is. However, what was put out to the consumers, this was very intentional. Obviously they flipped it. Right. It's an upside down pyramid that was done very intentionally. And as you read that pyramid, you know, that pyramid from left to right, top to bottom, what's the first thing you come to? The first thing you come to is a steak. And it's not just any steak, it's actually a rib eye steak, a fatty piece of red meat. That was done deliberately in part is because, you know, I think RFK, and if you read that first, the 10 page consumer facing guideline was signed by RFK, you know, Secretary HHS and Brooke Rollins, who is also a cattle person that's running the USDA right now. That was very intentional. So that is the message to the consumer, eat more real foods across the board. But also, let's get some, let's get some meat, red meat, let's get some eggs, let's get some whole dairy. And, and it says whole milk. It doesn't say milk, it says whole milk. So it's very intentional that they're trying to say animal fat is an important essential part of your nutrition. Obviously, you know, there's no ultra processed stuff. Grains took a really small roll down at the bottom. And I think that's, that's probably a win in many ways. You know, there's people sort of, you know, quibbling about the saturated fat cap, which, you know, I think there's some nuance around that. But yeah, I mean, this is, this is the message to the consumers. Because I bet you could not tell me and Paul over there couldn't tell me, you know, the 1990 food pyramid guidelines. You know, all we remember from that was the base was 11 grains, servings of grain. You don't remember all the other details, what the, what the numbers were. And this is what it is. It's kind of this gestalt thing. What, what, what is it? What is a diet supposed to look like? And this is the message they're sending. So it was very much a symbolic shift. And you know, you see people saying, you know, just jokingly, ha, I'm eating a, you know, I mean, a ribeye steak. It's dietary guidelines compliant now. So I think more people are sort of becoming aware of that. And I think, you know, in general it's going to be a net positive for many people if they stick to it. I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot of thought around a lot of people saying, well, I don't care. I'll eat whatever I want anyway. So I think, you know, but, but the thing that I find when people start to prioritize whole foods to include animal products, that their appetite is satiated in a way that these, you know, rapid convenience foods. You know, there was a, there was a study done a few years ago looking at, I think it was millennials at the time. And they said, you know, millennials aren't eating as much breakfast cereal. And the thought was, oh, maybe they're realizing this sugary breakfast crap is not good for us. The reason they were doing that was not because they thought that breakfast cereal was unhealthy for them. Reason they were doing that is because a bowl of cereal was too much work. They had to clean a dish, you know, they had to put ingredients together. They rather open a package, rip a package open, should have a little candy bar in their mouth or, you know, a little whatever, health bar in their mouth.
- [37:49]
B
Crazy.
- [37:50]
A
So, so we've got this sort of, you know, I mean, obviously we have a. A dearth of knowledge when it comes to how to prepare food, because we've been so brainwashed by the convenience industry and the snack food industry. It's like, you know, and then the dietitians, you know, all have been. Their organizations have all been funded by these. These companies to tell you, hey, you know, just eat six times a day. And, you know, it's, you know, you work too hard and, you know, your time is too valuable. You need to be sitting on the couch watching Netflix and eating microwave popcorn. Don't be cooking meals. That's. That's, that's too much. That's, you know, and I don't want to get into the. The sort of the feminine feminism stuff, but, I mean, there's a lot of stuff where, you know, you can't be cooking. And, you know, and I cook. I cook most of the meals at house. I like to. I cook steaks every day. But I mean, we've gotten to this point where we think that we shouldn't be cooking, which is. Which is insane. I mean, that's one of the basic. The basic things. And the one thing that scares me. Well, we'll see how it goes. You know, all the robots, you know, Elon Musk talking about, you know, robots are going to be. And everyone is home, and no one's going to have to work, and we're all going to have this universal basic infram. Are all going to be wealthy. And I'm kind of like, I'm not so sure about that. I don't know what the transition to that's going to look like. But at the same time, if we further de. Evolve when we lose all these skills, I mean, we're going to be like the fish at the bottom of the ocean with no eyes, because it's like, I don't even know how to, you know, I don't know how to drive across the country without my phone anymore.
- [39:17]
B
Oh, totally.
- [39:18]
A
It's like, you know, we're all hooked on that stuff. And so it's like. And now we're like outsourcing our thinking process to AI and it's like, hey, Grok, how do you know, fight this argument for me. And so we're losing these critical thinking skills that make us human. And so I wonder, I wonder how that's going to impact the mental health of many people because, you know, you become, it's like, what do I do? Do I. Do I just sit around and play video games all day?
- [39:39]
B
I agree with you. I mean, one of my favorite things about the Bitcoin community is they really want to go back to a sense of growing your own food. They have their own gardens, they want to know their butcher, they want to have their chickens for their eggs. And it's really about being able to touch, touch and feel where all of that comes from. Because, yeah, you're right to your point. I mean, we're commoditizing everything now. We're going to have robots doing everything for us. And I think also we've just, we've, we've come to a place where we're go, go, go so much and we're working so much that we don't even realize the importance of actually sitting down and slowing down when we eat. That, like the speed and tempo at which you eat and your nervous system, that also impacts your health as opposed to just running on the go. You're not even sitting down. Like all of it is important and matters and we need to teach people about that.
- [40:28]
A
Well, you know, and again, the contrast between, you know, going to say, a European country where, yeah, you go out to eat, it's, it's, it's just a special thing you dress up for. You spend three hours, five hours at the restaurant, go for a nice walk afterwards.
- [40:41]
B
Yeah.
- [40:41]
A
You know, it's not rushed, but. Yeah, in America, America, it's like fast food. I'll swing by the drive through at McDonald's and pound down a hamburger on my drive home. Yeah, that's, that's a real problem. But, but again, it's like when we sort of, you know, as humans, we start to lose a sense of purpose, you know?
- [40:56]
B
Yeah.
- [40:57]
A
With, with, with, you know, AI will do everything for us. Robots will do everything for us. And what will I do? Some of. I think it'll break a lot of people mentally. I think there are a lot of people that it's it's gonna. It's gonna crush them mentally because they'll lose a sense of purpose. And I do think a sense of purpose is essential for health. That's one of the things, again, I talk about, you know, having a sense of purpose. And so for some people, like you said, some of the Bitcoiners and others, they will. They will realize how important it is to touch the grass and be in the environment and be present with your family and other people around you. And I think those people will thrive in that environment. So, you know, I think ultimately some people will. Will do well, you know, as long as they. They stay in contact with what it. What it means to be human. But many people that will, you know, just get sort of further drawn on this rabbit hole of technology and outsourcing everything and spending their life, you know, staring at screens and virtual reality stuff, they will be. Their mental health will be, I think, destroyed.
- [41:56]
B
Well, I think that's an important topic. So as we start to wrap up, I mean, if folks are listening to this and they're like, okay, I have some action items I want to. I'm going to eat more whole foods. I'm going to get some exercise, I'm going to get some sunlight. But that purpose aspect, the mental health aspect is really important because we do. We're surrounded by screens all day, and we live in this rat race.
- [42:15]
A
We.
- [42:16]
B
What's your advice for someone to have a sense of just purpose and vision and hope for the future?
- [42:25]
A
Yeah. So one of the things, you know, because as a physician, I deal with a lot of sick people, people with chronic diseases, and one of the things I talk to them is the people that develop the mindset of no longer being sick and not accepting that are the ones that ultimately tend to thrive and succeed. And I think it's like, you know, you know, you define your why. You know, why do you. Why do you not want to have diabetes? Well, because it's inconvenient. I don't like paying for. That's not the real reason. I mean, you think, what do you want to do with your life? That health would be, you know, a tool for that. And so I think if you think about it from that way as why there's a. There's a guy I used to watch, his name's Eric Thomas, a pretty pretty. He's a pretty interesting sort of just sort of motivational speaker guy. And he's. He's just aggressive and he just talks about what's your why? And it's not a New concept. But, but I think that's, you know, like when I talk to people, why do you Want to lose 50? What are you going to do with that? So you can envision how that goes. And the thing is that I, I think there are really six critical pieces of, of health. One is, you know, what we eat. Two is, is sleep. I think it's incredibly important. I think exercise and activity, I kind of lump those together. Not being sedentary, you know, most of us, a lot of us have spent our day sitting down in front of a computer screen and, and that kills people really. So that's important. And then adding the exercise to that. I think how we manage stress is important because stress is omnipresent. I mean there's good stress, the so called eustress, like exercise, but there's a lot of bad stress that we have to deal with, particularly in this modern environment. I think that our relationship with the sun is incredibly important. You know, I think, you know, getting that sunlight on our face, on our skin, you know, throughout the day, at appropriate times, not always be surrounded by this artificial stuff. And then, and then the final one is a sense of purpose, community and purpose. So I'm belonging to something, you know, if it's bitcoin community or saying, hey, I want to, you know, yeah, whatever, have my own node or, you know, whatever, or whatever, however it goes, you know, having, or, you know, there's a lot of things that you have purpose. I want to write a book or I want to learn another language or I want to visit this part of the world or whatever, whatever, whatever. Have something to make life meaningful. Because there are so many people and this is what people observe, that human beings are the only species that often will die at age 30 and wait till age 70 to die, to be buried. You know, it's like you just, you're just aimlessly waiting basically to die. So you got to, got to have a purpose.
- [44:46]
B
I love that. And remember that change doesn't happen overnight. Again, going back to that magic pill, you know, the meme where everyone's standing in one line, right? They want, they want the 200k bitcoin, but they're not willing to take it at 30k. And they're not willing to do the work of like exercising and changing their diet. They just want the magic pills so that they're skinny. Things take time. Habits, you know, aren't formed overnight. But you can take baby steps every single day, right, to move you in the right direction. So, Dr. Baker, thanks for joining me. Any final thoughts?
- [45:17]
A
Yeah, final thoughts. You know, again, I, I'll, I'll use my physician, sort of my physician's hat on here. For, for many people, if you are sick and suffering with chronic disease, it is very depressing and disempowering, you know, particularly the modern healthcare system because, you know, when you ask them, what, why am I sick? Well, we don't really know. Maybe it's genetic or something like that. And then what do I do about it? Well, you just take these pills that don't accept that answer. First of all, ask, why are you sick? They can't give you a good answer. Why do I have diabetes? Why do I have this autoimmune disease? If they don't know the answer to that may be in the wrong place. And what I have found that people that actually take ownership of their own health and don't outsource it solve these issues. And, you know, we help them with our companies a lot of times to kind of figure that out. But at the end of the day, don't outsource your health to anyone else. Take ownership for it and you can literally, you can will it into being.
- [46:11]
B
It's great advice. I'm going to link your work in the show notes, so I hope everyone checks it out. Thank you for joining me. Hopefully we can record again. I didn't even get your story of how you were basically the guy that was going to press go on nuclear weapons, right? I mean, you've had some pretty interesting experiences. But I'm sure, I'm sure the health stuff has been very fulfilling. So thank you.
- [46:31]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [46:32]
B
Natalie, thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. If you can, turn on those notifications and leave us a positive review, they really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up@thenewsblock.substack.com this show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as financial investment advice and you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach my team@infoalkingbitcoin.com I'll see you next time.