← Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Eric Jackson: Finding the Next 100x Investment, AI Investing Models and Bitcoin's Future
01:03:24
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- [00:00]
A
I'm a full believer and I think long term, I'm just as bullish as Michael Saylor. I think the price of bitcoin will go to 50 million plus.
- [00:07]
B
You think per coin it's going to $50 million?
- [00:09]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [00:10]
B
In our lifetime.
- [00:11]
A
Yes, of course. Wow.
- [00:20]
B
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Joining me this week is Eric Jackson. He is the founder of EMJ Capital, which is a hedge fund that looks for 100 baggers. What does that mean? Stocks that can go 100x. And Eric has a pretty good track record of picking some great companies. So this is a little bit out of my normal bitcoin avenue because you haven't really talked about bitcoin publicly. But Eric, it's great to have you. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [00:44]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [00:46]
B
Well, let's get a little bit of your backstory. Tell us about your investing background, how you got to start your hedge fund and how you've become so successful in picking winning companies that you've been able to turn around.
- [00:57]
A
Well, I have a long and windy career that brought me to this point. But it really goes back to my grandparents who came from Western Ukraine. And so I'm really close to all my family on both sides. But my dad's family's, you know, English, Scots, Irish. But my two grandparents on my mom's side are from Western Ukraine. And my grandfather, who's now passed, came over to North America in when he was 16 years old. And because basically they had nothing in Western Ukraine, they were from this little village called Chernovitzi. And basically his parents said, if you want to be successful in life, you need to go to America and basically we'll never see you again. And So I have four kids, including a 16 year old. And I can't imagine kind of just sort of saying Goodbye to my 16 year old son. But he went up to Hamburg, he got on a steamer ship, got dropped off in Ellis Island. I found actual forms that he signed in Ellis island, checking in at 16 years. And he didn't know anybody over here, but his, his parents had some distant relatives who lived in northwestern Manitoba in Canada. And so he went to a place called Swan River, Manitoba. Probably took him two weeks to get from Ellis island to Swan river and basically had to kind of look for work and make money. And so he literally rode the rails across Canada during the Great Depression from town to town looking for work. He had no, you know, no education, no skill set, you know, did whatever he could, eventually became a welder, helped build the Alaska highway during the World War II, but basically get supplies up because they were worried the Russians were going to invade through Alaska. Anyway, my. My grandmother ran a. A rooming house in Toronto after the world World War II because they couldn't afford a place to live. And they got free housing in this boarding house and made some extra money taking care, you know, collecting sort of checks from these. These retired military people that were living in this boarding house. Anyway, he eventually, like, he came back home, they saved up enough money, they bought their house in the 1950s in Toronto, which was their first house. And it became kind of like the, The. The proudest. You know, it was like, it was. It was bigger than Drake's Mansion to, to my grandfather. He loved this place. It was the center of the whole family. It's a uk so like, big, big family. We have all kinds of, like, celebrations there. Growing up as a kid, it was sort of the center of my world growing up. And. And it was within their grasp, you know, when they were this young couple starting out from coming from nothing, with no background and to live in kind of the biggest city in Canada at the same time. And so, you know, the world has changed a lot. But so he was a big influence on me. And I remember he came and kind of sat me down once when I was visiting him when I was 11 years old, and he gave me an Omega watch, which I didn't know what an Omega watch was. It looked gold, it looked expensive, you know, and he said, eric, I want to give this to you, and I want to tell you something. You have to remember in life, you always have to buy quality. Don't buy the cheap stuff. You have cheap clothing, cheap suit. It's going to fall apart. Spend a little bit extra and buy, you know, something that lasts. And that always stuck with me. And, you know, I don't think he invested a dollar in his life. Like, he kept his money in the bank. You know, he paid for the family expenses. He was simple man, but, you know, he. He would have loved bitcoin, you know, because he was always telling me, you know, the government's never going to save you. You know, you're. You have to get up every day, work hard. You know, you're going to have to save yourself. You're going to have to push, you know, push yourself ahead. And just a couple of months ago, I was down at the bottom of Manhattan at this party for American Bitcoin, because they just had this sort of listing, you know, they had listed as a stock. And so they were at Casa Cipriani, very swanky place in New York. And you can, if you go out on the, the balcon look around, you can see Ellis Island. And I was like man, you know if my grandfather was here today and he could sort of see, you know, little he didn't have any opportunities like I've had. And yet you know, the hard work 100 years later, basically his, his offspring are kind of able to accomplish all these great things in finance and business and with retail investors. Like he is like you know, had such a monumental impact on me and my career and which isn't over but like that's, that's the kind of, you know, you know, what, what sort of drives me and, and you know, I know we'll talk about open door but you know, like just his the way that the house was so important for him and his family, like it's a major issue in our society right now.
- [05:49]
B
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- [07:55]
A
Well, you know, there are people out there that, that are short sellers and all they do every day when they wake up is kind of look at everything that can go wrong. My just natural philosophy in life is to kind of, you know, to almost take the opposite view of like, what are all the things that could, could go right? Like what's the blue sky scenario? In any situation with any stock, that's what gets me most excited. I don't, I don't really get excited thinking about this stock or this coin could, you know, could go up 10% or 20% or something like that. I'm more excited about. Hey there a. There's an unraveling story that's, that's going on here and it might not happen next year or two years, but three years if this trajectory kind of keeps going, this thing could really be huge multiples of where it is today and hopefully 10x20x and then, you know, 100x and I have found a few like that over, over the years of being a hedge fund manager. Lots of ups and downs, lots of mistakes. But you know, one of the big hits that I had a couple of years ago was I found this company, Carv Carvana that you know, was sort of left for dead. You know, it had been a high flyer, a big growth success story of like the last decade. Everybody's seen their like bubblegum car machines on the side of the highway when they drive around and they knew that, you know, it was a good customer experience. It was helping you bypass going to the, you know, the used car dealer on the corner to, to sell your used car and have a more direct relationship. But they'd raised a lot of debt and they sort of got in trouble when interest rates rose so suddenly. So their stock, $400 to $3.50 in December of 2022, like sort of like which was sort of the Peak pessimist kind of period after the rate hikes and that crypto was down then and everything, and nobody thought they would come back from the dead. Like, it was sort of like if you talked with analysts or investors or finance Twitter people, they were like, oh, yeah, like these guys, like, they, you. You would have to be a bunch of idiots to let your stock go from $400 to $3.50 and yet.
- [10:03]
B
Saw.
- [10:03]
A
Us like an opportunity that they had to come back. And I was working away, like in the first iterations of the AI models that we are using to this day to try to help identify, you know, opportunities, 100x opportunities. And one of the, the first model came back and said, hey, Carvana, something's going on here. This should be the number two long position in your portfolio.
- [10:25]
B
And I knew AI model. Spit that out.
- [10:27]
A
Yes. Wow. And this was when it was like 11 bucks a share. And I knew the company because I had traded it, you know, in the, in the prior years. And, you know, one of the things that had caught my eye, you know, in 2022 when the stock was going down, was that several people on the management team had bought a lot of stock. You know, the CEO is a guy named Ernie Garcia Jr. He'd bought $70 million worth of his own stock that year, which is a lot. And some people criticize him because, oh, he's wealthy and his dad was wealthy, but $70 million is a lot of money. I don't care how wealthy you are to put into your own stock. And, you know, nobody does that thinking they're going to set it on fire, Right? But there was another guy who was on the, on the management team who was the chief product officer, a guy named Dan Gill. And he happened to follow me on Twitter. And I noticed that In Thanksgiving of 2022, Dan had bought three and a half million dollars worth of his own stock. And that's something you normally never see, like a low kind of a. Not a lower level person. But, you know, it's usually just the CEO symbolically buying a little bit of stock. But Dan had bought a lot of stock. And, you know, I know just from my own marriage, like if I went home to my wife and, you know, my Stock was down 98%, you know, and probably she's worried that, you know, is this thing going to go bankrupt and what's going to happen? And I say, you know what, honey, we got to double down here or triple down, and let's take another three and a half million dollars out of our Savings and put it into this stock that has just dropped 98%. I probably could have convinced her, but I think it might have been touch and go there in the conversation for a while. So that he had had that conversation really impressed me. So I reached out and had a phone conversation with him and I was just blown away. He was very humble. He's a Canadian guy. And he said, we all know each other on the management team. We went to Stanford together, most of us, and we have problems, we have challenges as a company, but we really think we've got something here and we're going to be special. And that's why I put the money in. So just knowing that backstory, when the AI model flagged it, it was like, okay, I think this could work out. And it did end up coming all the way back and recently got over $400 a share again. So it went from 400 to $3.50 to 400. So in more than 100x. And so because I had that feather in my cap, I guess I went on with my life. I was looking at other stocks, but I decided earlier this year that was obviously a big hit. And it's diffic these hundred baggers in stocks especially because most of these private companies stay private a lot longer than they used to. But I said, let's focus on that. And so we found a couple of companies early that were, you know, I was really excited about Iron and Cipher and that are bitcoin miners that are transitioning to AI, you know, data center type companies. And I would talk about, hey, this is the. The next Carvana. And one of the things that I, that I noticed immediately was that people were, you know, immediately, you know, salivating to hear about the next Carvana. And I would get these tweets from people like, I missed Carvana two years ago. Yeah, I'm not going to miss it this time. And then questions would come up like, hey, Eric, didn't you once, like, open door? You're like, whatever happened to open door? You know, you. I remember once you were on a podcast and you said, you know, you thought Opendoor could be the, you know, a Carvana like company. And the truth was I hadn't looked at them in a long time because they had kept going down when Carvana had made this turn to go up again, and when I did in the summer, get in, you know, start looking at them again, you could. You. It didn't take a rocket scientist to realize that interest rates were going to have to fall because the economy was slowing. And that would obviously help a company like Opendoor that's exposed to the housing market and mortgage rates and all that. And, and they were going to have their first profitable quarter in, in three years, which is sort of like a necessary, you know, pre precondition for any of these companies to start moving up again. People have to believe that they've sort of, they're about to hit profitability again and hopefully there's growth ahead for the company. And so it all lined up and I decided, hey, I'm going to go public and this time I'm going to make the open door a bigger part of my portfolio and I'm going to talk about it in advance. You know, whereas I was a little sheepish before to say, hey, I love Carvana, because everybody was out there saying, ah, you know, this is the walking dead and you know, why would you touch this company? And I just figured, you know, what do I care? I mean, I've gone through my own kind of ups and downs in my career. I don't care if people laugh at me or make fun of me. I'm just going to call my shot like, like the, you know, Babe Ruth pointing at the bleachers, about to hit, you know, hit, hit the home run hopefully. And you know, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'm going to, you know, stake my, my claim on this. And immediately like people were excited about it and I came out with like my analysis in a tweet storm where I said this 80 cent stock, I think in a few years could be worth $82. So it's a potential 100 bagger and people were like 100, you know, $82. What? Like it was such a crazy number to, you know, people just couldn't wrap their brains around it. This was like a 400 million dollar market cap company and I was calling it the, you know, the Amazon. It was going to be the Amazon of real estate. And that it just, it didn't compute for people. And it sort of an interesting, you know, you know, it showed me the importance of narrative in, in these kinds of, of stories. Like we, we can all be the best analysts that we want to be. We can all do our, you know, run our spreadsheets about what bitcoin is worth now and what, what it should be. Yeah, but it's more of like how, how do you actually communicate that in a way that galvanizes people that, you know, at the end of the day, prices of bitcoin or prices of stocks are constructed socially. And so we have to, you know, there has to be a re. A reason for people to believe. And, and so that comes through story which.
- [16:36]
B
Well, and I've even seen bitcoiners this year because bitcoin sort of underperformed what we would like to see, even though we are up a lot actually, if you look at a year ago. But this year in 2025, it's been very, very choppy and people have been looking for other opportunities and the idea of, you know, being able to 100x their money, that, that maybe a small percentage of their portfolio they want to allocate to those opportunities. Specifically with Open Door, I did want to learn more because there is such a housing affordability crisis. It's in the headlines everywhere. The administration is trying to get creative with the 50 year mortgage, portable mortgage. But can you explain what, what the company actually does and what are your ideas maybe for allowing for more people to be able to have access to homeownership?
- [17:20]
A
Well, they were founded 10 years ago and their idea was just like Carvana disrupted to, you know, the used car lot on the corner to, to buy and sell your, your car. They said why do we need real estate agents? You know, why this. And we, we pay 6% of the commission rates to these folks. What do they actually do for that? Just because we've always done something one way. Just because we've always done mortgage and title this way and home inspections this way and has this long closing period attached to the, the, the, the home purchases. Like why do we have. And so they, the original business plan was to try to streamline the whole process so that you would just go to an app or go to a website for Open Door, type in your address of the home that you were selling and they would immediately make you an offer. And if you agreed and clicked yes, submit within a few days or we, you know, or when they started, it was probably three weeks, you would have money wired into your account out, no tours through your house, no like leaving your house. It was just like basically selling direct to this company, Opendoor. And what they found is that there was a huge interest in that kind of model. Not for everybody and not for all houses, but there was a certain section of the, of the market that agreed. You know, really loved that, that idea. And so that was how the company got built. And they got really good at, you know, making offer. You know, obviously you have to price it properly and that's a key part. But they never, they never really moved past something called Ibuying, which is just the actual buying and selling and obviously it's a big ticket purchase for Opendoor. Have to buy your house from you. Their average prices of the houses that they buy are $400,000. So you, you have to have a big balance sheet to execute this business plan. And you can't be wrong, wrong, especially when the interest rates turn. And so that's what you know, led to the problems in 2021 when interest rates did jack up so quickly. But they also never got to the part of bundling in mortgages and as part of the service and, and other ancillary revenues that you can attach to the actual buying and selling of, of the, of the house. And you know, that's, that's what's interesting about Carvana. Carvana doesn't make much money from buying and selling cars. They make 80% of their profits from the finance and interest to the buying and selling of the cars. So for Opendoor, it's, it's the same kind of an approach. Like there's a reason why like 2 of the NBA teams are owned by people that run mortgage companies. Like there's a lot of, there's a lot of money in putting mortgages together. So yeah, right now Opendoor is now in the process of sort of version two of, of their, of themselves with a new management team and a new CEO who's the former CEO of Shopify. And they're really trying to fulfill this original vision of they want to do three day closes where you know, basically when you click submit, you know your money is in your account three days from now. And before you even exit that session of where you've sold your house, they've already immediately kind of made an offer. Hey, would you like a credit line to now browse these other houses that you could potentially buy at the same time that you've just sold your house a second ago. So we're, we're sort of, they're trying to. Obviously we all have gotten used to living in our phones. You know, we don't want to talk to people. We don't want a big elongated sales process. If we can do things faster and faster at a fair price with kind of speed and assurances around the price that we're going to get for our homes. That's, that's a compelling value proposition. So, and it lowers the, it lowers the costs for people, the uncertainty that people have to move in different parts to different parts of the country. So they're helping lower the cost of homeownership Just through a much simpler and cheaper process. There are some other political levers though that can be pulled that will help open door. So things like assumable mortgages and portable mortgages. One is like, if you've got a low interest rate now, if you were lucky enough to lock into like a 2%, 30 year fixed mortgage a couple of years ago, what if you could take that with you when you moved from New Jersey to California? And so like, there are some things that the government, the government can do and I think will do to kind of help basically break the log jam that's currently, you know, it's such a different world from when my grandparents were buying that first house in the 50s. And, and if you don't have a good house, that's sort of like the sort of the center, the central part of the family. And you know, so, you know, America gets slowed down as a country if it doesn't have, you know, that sort of rock solid family base which is based on, you know, people being able to afford homes. So this is, you know, this is critically important for, for the country.
- [22:35]
B
Well, that's something I've seen you talk about. That real estate sort of anchors communities and is really important when it comes to a sense of ownership stake and building an investment within a community and neighborhood and giving young people an opportunity. So it seems like Opendoor is trying to democratize it in a way. But what are all these real estate agents going to do? You're going to displace all of them. Where are they going to go?
- [22:59]
A
The funny thing is that the open army, probably the profession that is most represented in the Open army internationally are real estate agents. And I had a dinner in Costa Mesa, California a few, few weeks ago with this guy who's like all, he runs a recycling yard out there in California, but his wife's a real estate agent. And so he was saying, you know, you know, we're, we're all in on Open Door. I said, really? Like, isn't that a threat to you? And he's like, no, it's like it's a hedge, you know, because, you know, if something happens to Andrea, you know, you know, like we know we're, you know, we're going to more than make up for it from, you know, the value that Opendoor shares are going to go up.
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B
So, so Opendoor doesn't see the house but buys it. Right? Nobody goes to see the house and you purchase it.
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A
It. They're using AI basically to kind of better understand your neighborhood. That house, the the, the individual deficiencies with the house that might kind of, you know, the, the fact that there might be a barking dog next door that drives other, other neighbors in the neighborhood nuts. There's. The AI is like, involved in the home inspections. It's involved in the staging of houses these days. Now it's, it's getting to be almost a problem where people get disappointed when they actually go into the house. And from the AI stage version of the house that they saw online to what it actually is. But it's. Open Doors was a company that had 1400 people this summer when it was sort of like asleep at the wheel before the new team came in. They're, they're hoping to take it down something like 80, 90% of the headcount down and replace all those jobs. And they had something like 11 people that had to be involved in selling one house every time they did it. Oh, wow. Now they're down to one. Just in, just in the last month. You know, these are the changes the new CEO has made, and it's. The rest is being filled in by AI so anytime people say, I don't. I don't see how AI is like, changing the world. Like, I hear about all these companies spending money, you know, to, you know, investing in AI, but where's the payoff? Well, it's coming through these kinds of case studies of, of Open Door and what they're planning on doing and revolutionizing the, the real estate business.
- [25:08]
B
So if you're buying a house, you can see it, though. I'd imagine you'd want a tour. Right? To be able to buy. Is this competing with Zillow in a way? Because Zill, you can't do this on. You can't like, make an offer on the house. I guess you can they connect you to a real estate agent. I don't know.
- [25:20]
A
Yeah. Zillow started as basically a nice place to kind of browse houses.
- [25:25]
B
Yes.
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A
But whenever you got excited about a house, they would pass you off to an agent.
- [25:30]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [25:31]
A
And so they, they made money from selling ads next to these houses or getting from, you know, real estate agent leads for, for the. An Open Door. The interesting thing about them is they had a million and a half Americans come to them last year to specifically ask for a quote, quote, to buy their house. Okay. So that it's a seller demand as opposed to looky lose, you know, and people interested in potentially buying. And that seller demand is, is highly monetizable. Like, that's, that's, I think what people missed about Opendoor when it was just a 400 million dollar stock is that it's, it's sort of like the difference between the power of people going to Google and typing in their intent into the search bar. You know, like Google realized, oh, we can actually start selling ads next to this. There's a whole revenue stream that we can, that can FL this. So that's, you know, a rocket mortgage doesn't have those one and a half million Americans coming to them looking for a solution to kind of selling their house. So they're in, they are in a unique position and it's still a lot of work, but it's, it's, it has major upside. And there, and there were a lot of people that were bitcoin investors, crypto investors who I noticed like they were saying, you know, we're bored of bitcoin or we're bored of the Mag 7 and we're looking for kind of more interesting stories. Stories and we believe like this real estate, you know, is, is a major problem for America and this could be, you know, a great, a great stock to own, but also be part of kind of something that reshapes how the country looks in a few years from now.
- [27:02]
B
So that's so interesting. Well, you can't live in your bitcoin. I mean, for me, I have a dream house. Every time I go on those apps like Zillow, the prices just depress me because it's like I don't have enough bitcoin. But do you have like a bitcoin story? How did you get into it? Are you a holder? Do you share how much you hold in terms of your net worth worth?
- [27:21]
A
Well, I'm definitely a bitcoin bull and a holder and believe in bitcoin long term. To the point where next month I'm launching a spin out from my hedge fund, EMJ Capital, which is going to be a digital treasury company, a DAT that's going to primarily hold bitcoin. But it's unlike some of the other DATs out there. It's going to be a multi asset asset treasury company. So it's going to have bitcoin, Ethereum and some other coins which I call Carvana coins because those would be smaller altcoins that, you know, most people don't pay attention to once they get, you know, once they have their bitcoin holdings, core holdings, because obviously that's the granddaddy of everything in crypto and what everyone cares about. And I'm, I'm a full believer and I think long term I'm just as bullish as Michael Saylor. You know this. I think, I think the price of Bitcoin will go to 50, 50 million plus.
- [28:20]
B
You think the bitcoin price like per coin.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah.
- [28:22]
B
You think per coin it's going to $50 million?
- [28:25]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [28:26]
B
In our lifetime.
- [28:27]
A
Yes, of course.
- [28:28]
B
Wow.
- [28:28]
A
Because I mean this is not, I mean it will easily be as valuable as the current gold holdings that we see today that are held by central banks and sovereigns as well as retail investors around the world. And know. But then you know, I don't think it stops there. I mean it's, it's so much more sort of a perfect version of digital gold and I think it, it has the opportunity to be, to be a much more widely held form of currency. And so it's when you look at it that way that I can easily kind of imagine those kinds of like eye popping, you know, per Bitcoin numbers. But the, there were, you know, I was talking to Brandon Lutnick a few weeks ago from Cantor Fitzgerald and he was saying, you know, a lot of people, they just don't, they never look past Bitcoin. You know, it's, it's sort of taken us all this time in the last 10 years just to tell the bitcoin story and to then to explain Ethereum and explain some of these other coins. They, people sort of wave their hands and say oh it's too complex or I, it's a lot of scams out there. And there's no question there, there are scams out there in a lot of these crypto coins.
- [29:40]
B
There's.
- [29:40]
A
But it would kind of be the equivalent of a stock investor saying I only invest in the Mag 7 stocks. I'm just never going to look at the Russell 2000 or something. Which is fine. I mean you can make a lot of money investing in Apple or Tesla or Nvidia but you're never going to find a Carvana that way. And so I think there's an opportunity for a digital asset treasury that's focused on Bitcoin and Ethereum as sort of the two big players with Bitcoin as sort of being the sun that everything else else circles around. But there'll be some smaller kind of off the beaten path, 100 bagger opportunities in other coins as well. So it's going to be a multi asset strategy and it's going to use the AI models that we've built over the last four years to help us hedge the value of our treasury over time. So I Love Bitcoin. I have the highest regard for Michael Saylor with MicroStrategy, but I think we would all recognize MicroStrategy is kind of like Bitcoin rocket fuel. And so if Bitcoin's going to go up 60% in a year, Microstrategy is probably going to go up 75% in that year. But when Bitcoin pulls back like we've seen just in the last couple of months, MicroStrategy is a more levered play on that. And so I think the opportunity for a digital asset company, which, which is what EMJ X is going to be about, is to provide better hedging for those down periods. And so we're using the AI models that we've built on our team over these last four years to do that. And what's been surprising to me is that when we've built, when we downloaded all the transactions for Bitcoin in the past four years, there's so much more information saved on the blockchain chain that you can leverage when you're building these kinds of, you know, AI models compared to a stock model. So things like, you know, obviously wallet level information, who's buying what, which whales are buying which, which whales are selling, which wallets have made, you know, correct trades in the past that are worth watching, whether they're whales or not, then there's all kinds of, you know, stablecoin information. Is money flowing into Bitcoin? Is it coming out of Bitcoin that when we actually build the models, a good stock model is probably right, 51, 52% of the time in terms of making money, making predictions for, for, for different trades. The, the, the, the good bitcoin models that we're, we've built over these last few years, they have about an 83% hit rate. So much higher, much higher. And so why is that? I think it's because of all this additional information that's saved on the blockchain so that we, that we're able to kind of le the model. So the opportunity is like, why do you want to just be a boy on the water rising and falling with the price of Bitcoin, like when we all agree that there will be periods of volatility and drawdowns. And so I think what, what we hope anyway is like this will be a sort of a Generation 2 version of a DAT treasury, just like Google was Generation two coming after Lycos and Excite, search engines that were, that came around the first time and what people will be attracted to is that we're going to ride through those periods of volatility better and still make money when times go up. So we haven't launched yet. I can only refer to the back tested numbers. But in this year, for example, in 2025, the kinds of returns that we're seeing in terms of the value of our treasury that we've been testing and kind of watching every day before launching, we're up something like 50% you know, with, with our models. Whereas I think bitcoin, you know, today was like basically flat on the year, maybe up 1% on the year and you know, a micro strategy is, is negative on the year because it's a more kind of levered play to it. So that's I think what, what people will be excited about. So I'm all in on Bitcoin. It's definitely, you know, my grandfather would be proud to be kind of disconnected from, you know, the, the central banks of the world and kind of feel like more sense of autonomy and control from owning Bitcoin and that's what, what we're going to be all about. But we hopefully will bring a story that's a little bit differentiated compared to some of the other Treasuries out there this year.
- [34:12]
B
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- [34:26]
A
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- [34:33]
B
This led to more support from Bitcoin users and a 10% revenue boost. Getting started is easy. Sign up@trispeed.com or integrate the API in hours. Start accepting Bitcoin today. Download Speed at Speed app coinstories or the QR code on the screen and use code COINSTORIES10 for 5000 free sats. BitKey is a Bitcoin hardware wallet with multi 6 security inheritance and a recovery system designed for real life. No complex setup and no seed phrases, just true self custody without the stress. It was named one of Time's best inventions in 2024. Use code STORIES for 20% off@bitkey.org world. Up next, the Bitcoin way. There's only one way to protect your Bitcoin from government, politicians and third party risk and that is 100% self custody. My friends at the Bitcoin Way will train you how to do this the right way the first time. No compromises go to the Bitcoin way.com Natalie to speak with the experts about making sure your bitcoin is secure and private. And finally, Coinstories is brought to you by Genius Group, a bitcoin treasury company listed on the NYSE. American undertaker GNA. Genius is building a 10,000 Bitcoin treasury and just launched the Genius Academy featuring free courses from safety to moose. Myself and more. Start learning today at Genius Academy. AI Genius Group. Genius isn't measured in iq, it's measured in bitcoin. How important is the retail investor? Because I see folks like you and Mike Alfred and you've built these communities online and people are following what you're doing on like a daily basis. Are you, are you selling? Are you buying more? Which, which ticker should I look at? And I mean it, it must feel great in a sense that people are entrusting you. They, they're looking to you as a benchmark for how they're going to invest. And I'm sure that also comes with some pressure because obviously now you may feel responsible for other people's kind of savings and where they're allocating their investments.
- [36:30]
A
Well, it's, it's definitely a lot of pressure for sure and a little daunting sometimes when you hear people's personal stories and how much money that they might have invested in particular stocks that you've mentioned or, or bitcoin or something like that. But I would, it's incredibly rewarding and it's been super eye opening for me, Natalie, this year sort of on this journey with, with Open Door especially and then, and since then. And the biggest surprise is that I sort of thought that, you know, you hear the term retail investor, you think dumb money. I mean that was the name of the movie about the whole gamestop episode from 2021 that, that describes like the retail investors and you, and you sort of, if you watch business, business tv, you, you get the sense a lot of times Wall street will, will say, you know, oh, you know, here's the latest Meme stock. Oh, they're, you know, retail is shooting themselves in the foot again. They're just gonna lose money. Like why? You know, I wish they would know better. I wish they were as smart as we are, you know, and why don't they just give all their money to us and our low cost ETFs at Vanguard or whatever and just mimics the, you know, the NASDAQ or the S&P 500 or something like that, which just obviously more money in Wall Street's pockets and not, not in retails. And what I noticed this year is that when I would start to talk about some of these individual stocks, sometimes they'd be like super complex. Like, I'm talking like post quantum cryptography companies. I remember I was at home one day and some guy came in to paint the ceiling of our kitchen because one of my daughters flooded her, you know, she let the bathtub run or something like that the night before, so there's, you know, all this water damage in the ceiling feeling. And he said, hey, aren't you Eric Jackson? I was like, yeah. And he's like, oh, aren't you into, like, I heard you talking the other day on Twitter or something about quantum computing. And I was like, oh yeah. And he's like, oh, yeah, I've been doing a lot of research on that. And we got into this like 30 minute conversation and I said, man, you know a lot more about this sector than I do. Like, how do you do that? And he said, like, well, I'm a painter. You know, this is my job. You know, I'm good at it. I'm happy. I've got this, you know, I've got this sort of planned out for the rest of my life, life. But every night I go home in three, four hours, I'll just spend in front of the computer researching stocks and research, researching crypto and Bitcoin because I see this as like my second job, as. And I have to. And, and I know that if I just do the painting, it's not going to be enough, you know, to provide for my family. And if I'm really going to provide generational wealth for them, I have to jump the line, right? I have to move up my lot in life somehow, and investing is way that I can do that. And I was like, man, you know, you're absolutely, absolutely right. And as time would go on, like, I'd hear more and more of these stories. People in the middle class, like, really struggling, you know, struggling to buy, you know, especially for younger generation, struggling to buy that first home. And, and it was international too. It wasn't just here in the US Like, I was over at a conference in Germany, in Frankfurt in September, and some guy over there who follows me, you know, sent me a message in the morning. You're in my hometown, you know, Can I, can I buy you a coffee? I've made some money on Opendoor. I want to thank you. And I was like, sure. But then I, I got busy and I was on a panel or something, so I, I didn't check my phone. And then suddenly I was like, walking in the hall and this guy, like, pops up. He's like, I just showed up. You know, I bought a ticket to the conference. I figured out what conference you were at. And he's. And he. And he started. I. I said, well, let's go have a coffee. And he was going through the same challenges of, you know, struggling, you know, to get ahead. You know, he had a new baby. He was wanting. You know, he wasn't making as much money as he wanted. He wasn't fully happy in his job, you know, was investing on the side. But, like, how does he get his name out there and all this kind of stuff. And I remember flying home and thinking to myself, this is global. You know, this is a global issue, and there's got to be some solution. And people are looking for voices like Mike Alfred or me online, and they're sort of hungry for. For guidance, but they're also a little bit jaded at the Kardashianization of society today, where every. Everybody who's tweeting is sort of leading you to a link to their merch store or, you know, to. To spend money on my course or something. So I decided that I just wanted to use my platform just to try to educate folks. And so I came up with this idea with the help of chat gbt, of. Of Rising Dynasty, which is basically like, we're all trying to build our own little dynasties in our family families. And, and for some people, they'll buy a mansion, you know, like 50,000 square foot mansion, I'm sure, one day when they, when they have their winnings, but other people have no interest in that. And, and they just want to have a comfortable life.
- [41:19]
B
Yeah.
- [41:19]
A
You know, we all have our different ambitions, but we, we can learn from each other, we can support each other. And, you know, I. I want to just do my part in that. And so that's. And. And I think people just appreciate the help and the guidance, but they're much smarter than what they're given credit for. And I think one of the tenants of Rising Dynasty is something called slugging percentage over batting average. And so the idea is that if you find a Carvana, if you find an open door, if you find a bitcoin that you think is going to be a $50 million coin one day, for example, it's not enough just to put like half a percent of your. Whatever your investable income in into that idea. You got it. You got to swing big. And so you can't Be reckless. It can't, can't be everything that you own or something. But you, you sort of realize that there, these moments in time, you know, we all wish we could go back and buy Apple stock after the iPhone got introduced, right? Or we wish that we had read the original bitcoin, you know, white paper in 2009 and immediately gone out and figured out how to send assemble our home computer system to start mining bitcoin immediately, right? We can't. We're here now. We got to make the best of what we have. Like we have, we are so blessed. Like nobody before us could just like type into chat GPT, get all the information that's available into humankind, you know, immediately sort of downloaded to us. So we just have to make the most of that now and just keep the eyes open for the best opportunities that are out there there going forward. And so I want people to kind of, you know, have a core holding in bitcoin. I want them to also be thinking about other hundred bagger types of ideas that, that, that and put a meaningful amount of money behind them. You know, there's, there's this guy, Masayoshi Son who, who started Softbank and so he's had so many big failures. Like WeWork is probably the biggest one that people remember from a few years ago. But what people don't realize is his, one of his biggest successes was he invest company Alibaba. In 2000, right after when the dot com bubble was about to burst, he decided like he'd met the CEO, the founder CEO, this guy named Jack Ma. And just from like the way he describes it, there was something in this guy's eyes that sold him on Alibaba and made him know that this company was going to be super successful in China trying to create an Internet behemoth over there in China. So he put, he wrote a check immediately for $20 million. Whereas at the time an American start startup check might have been like 2 or 3 million, but a Chinese like Internet startup would probably be like 200,000. So it was like a much bigger check than normal. That $20 million check by the time the Alibaba IPO'd in 2014, so 14 years later was worth $60 billion to SoftBank and to Masa. So he bet big and he won. We're not all gonna be able to kind of see those $60 billion paydays in 14 years from now, but the point is, is like when you find that big opportunity, whether it's bitcoin or whatever, open door you have to make sure you're really putting some muscle behind it rather than worrying about, like, oh, you know, I. I have, like, these 60 investments, and I need to make sure I make, like, 5% on each one.
- [44:44]
B
Yeah, sometimes all you need is one really good big idea. I love so many of the points you made. I actually talk about in my new book, Bitcoin is for Everyone. The fact that we are all pushed into investing because our money doesn't hold value. So, you know, some people put it, you have to earn your money twice. You have to put it to work, you have to acquire assets because our money is just being drained of purchasing power. And I like that you have a very positive outlook about it. Because some people think, you know, this is just. The world is so broken and no one has a shot. No one has an opportunity today. And it's all going to get worse with AI and economic displacement, like employment displacement. But you make it sound like, no, anyone is capable of this. You have so much information at your fingertips. We all have AI that we can type into, and you can start learning about tools like Bitcoin to empower yourself. That seems to be the message that I'm getting from you, one of empowerment. And anyone can do this and realize.
- [45:37]
A
Like, I've made so many stupid mistakes. I think sometimes people, like regular folks, like, say, oh, you're like, what do I know about the stock market? I've, you know, I. I haven't. I'm too afraid to try. Like, you gotta try, and you. And part of trying is failing. Like, you don't learn unless you fail at something. And there have been so many times where, like, I was like, oh, my God, you know, I should be more successful, you know, than what I am right now as a hedge fund guy. Am I really a hedge fund guy or am I just, like, cosplaying? Like, I'm a hedge fund guy and, like, you know, should I just throw in the towel? And you just have to realize, realize, like, part of, you know, being successful is just realizing, like, you're put here for a reason. By God. It wasn't just to kind of fail and go away and crawl into the corner and die. You're here to persevere and to fight through those, like, difficult moments. Make the mistakes. Lose money on some stock that you thought was going to do better than what it did and just learn from it and move forward, press ahead, and just understand other people are in the same boat as you are, and they're not, not any smarter. I'm not any smarter than my grandfather who got off the boat at Ellis island, you know, who didn't, had never gone to school. Basically I just was given more opportunities and it's all, we all have great opportunities and we just have to make the most of them.
- [46:54]
B
And you're going to bat a lot and you have a pretty good track record. I'm going to ask you this, the same question I asked Mike Alfred. If someone handed you a million dollars today, you get to keep it. Yay. You win the lottery, you get to allocate it how you'd like, like to five investments. Give me the percentages. What investments and what are the percentage allocations?
- [47:13]
A
So I'd say 30% Bitcoin. I'd say going to be 10% other, you know, Carvana coins, you know, and, and then I, I think the, so that leaves me 60%. So. And the rest is going to be probably 50% of these kinds of open door opportunities where these are stocks tied to different stories that are going to play out over a five year period but have a chance to really revolutionize some little niche or sector or area. And then probably 10% would be a little bit of safer, kind of slower growing, you know, plotting like little, little stocks that have good stories. They're not, they're not going to 100x but they are solid citizens and you know, I'm never going to be embarrassed kind of seeing them in the portfolio.
- [48:12]
B
So besides open, like do you have any other specific ones that you're really targeting right now and you're, you're eyeing and you think are good, good 100 bagger opportunities.
- [48:20]
A
Yeah, so I've got about eight in like the rising Dynasty portfolio, I call it. So Iron and Cipher, we touched on those briefly. I think those are super high potential stocks. I think long term everybody's like wringing their hands because iron dropped from $75 to $40 or 40, $48 or something. I think it's ultimately going to be a $900 stock. So like you can like cry about it. I always hear from people and they say, oh, I missed it because I didn't buy it at 9. Well, if it's a $48 stock, that's on the route to being a 900 stock. You didn't miss it. I mean so, so I like iron, I like cypher, I like hut 8, which is also kind of in a similar story of playing on the AI data center. But also they have the bitcoin mining angle because they own 65% of American Bitcoin I also really like a company called Better Home and Finance betr, which is a mortgage originator using AI to kind of try to do what Rocket Mortgage does in a much cheaper, faster way through using AI instead of people to kind of push paper around and get people the lowest price mortgages that they can possibly get. And as we're sort of approaching this moment where rates are finally going to come down, they're perfectly positioned. And in the biotech space there's a little company called Sana which the ticker is S A N A and they are building a whole new platform using stem cells to try to come up with sort of new, much more powerful and innovative way, way of, of solving different kinds of difficult diseases. And the kind of, the first one that they focused on was type 1 diabetes. So that's what you're, you're born with. And I, One of my four kids has type 1 diabetes. He was diagnosed when he was 13. And so it's a huge kind of worldwide kind of market for it. There's a lot of sort of 100 years ago if you, you got basically you, you, you stopped being able to produce insulin in your body. It was like a death sentence. They came up with insulin, insulin. But now this, this company has a, has a solution that basically one treatment and you're, it retrains your body to create insulin itself. So they've successfully shown, you know, evidence that it works in, in a handful of humans. But in the next year or two they're going to have to go through the whole, you know, mix of, of proving it out on a wider scale basis if they get across the finish line. I mean there are potential, potential 100 billion dollar company just from that one, you know, solution to type 1 diabetes. Diabetes itself. So interesting. I mean it, it, so it doesn't always have to be, you know, E commerce company or a AI company but you want to kind of look for stocks that you just think people are missing. You know, they're walking by like, like a piece of, you know, trash just sort of blowing on the street. People thinking like it's worthless and yet like within something you, you know, you find a jewel of, of a company that, and more successful one day and that's what you want to put your, put your money behind.
- [51:27]
B
But you have AI models that help you with this, right? Like did you create those models or is this someone that the something that the average person can access and like do their own homework to try to find one of these gems?
- [51:37]
A
We created our own. I Mean, a lot of people just go to Chat GPT and like, you know, type in what's a good 100 bagger stock. I don't, you know, like it's going to hallucinate. They're not, that they're not that powerful yet that they can tell us like how to make perfect trades and the perfect stock. So we have a, we have a system where we're building all kinds of like machine learning models and taking different factors into account and you know, it could be like volume or profitability and you know, insider buying and we're ranking all these things on different scales and then running it through some sort of, sort of pipeline to give us some insights on which company is randomly out there, whether they're trading in the US or some like, you know, Pakistan stock Exchange or something like, you know, might catch our interest. And sometimes it'll just be like somebody will mention a stock at a dinner conversation and I'll think like, oh yeah, I haven't looked at that company in a while. But then you'll go back and you'll run it through the system. So the average person can't create their own statistical models necessarily yet, although things are changing all the time. But you can just start to use the tools that you do have at your fingertips. And somebody was said to me yesterday, like how can I trust ChatGPT because sometimes they give me the wrong, wrong answer. And that's true, but like the really smart folks are the, you know, somebody told me that all kids today should, you know, major in prompting, you know, in college, you know, like how to write a prompt, right. And then how to realize when the answer you get back from Chat GPT is maybe it's like 65% right. But there's probably like 35% like it's, it is hallucinating on and then you have to ask a few follow up questions. I always get coached by my kids like oh no, you dad, you got to get angry at Chat GPT if it says something like that and tell them no, you're, you're, tell you, you told me to know this and that doesn't make sense and because then it learns and all this kind of stuff. So there's, you know, the point is like be proactive, you know, kind of use what's what you can and that's the only way you'll get smarter and smarter about, about, you know, figuring out like what's, what's useful and what's not useful.
- [53:46]
B
Yeah, I hear people using ChatGPT for creating their securities and like all of these advanced applications. And I think I need to improve on prompting because sometimes my chat GPT definitely hallucinates and I'm like, you cannot trust this thing. But that's so, so funny. You have gone viral for doing videos outside of Drake's house. Can you share what you're doing when you make those videos? And have, have you reached Drake? Has he talked to you?
- [54:14]
A
Well, it started in the summer when I got Long Open Door and I was like, you know, tweeting about it nonstop at all hours of the day. And with my 16 year old son Julie in my, my second born, who said, dad, you know, you keep saying like open doors, this amazing 100x opportunity, but you, you know, you haven't. How do you, how can you really like communicate that more more broadly? Because there are only so many people in the world that watch Bloomberg or Fox Business or cnbc. And I said, oh, that's a good point, Julian. What have you got any ideas? And he said, well, why don't you make a video in front of Drake's house? And I thought he meant like just a one, one off kind of video, but he said no, like if you to want, want to, if you want it to go viral, dad, you got to do it every day until he does something. And I was like, until he does something. He's like, yeah, you know, like you should say I'm going to be here every day, you know, rain or shine, weekends too. And until he buys, you know, some Open Door stock, for example. And I thought, oh, okay, so I mean, that's how it started. And, and so today actually, before I came up here in the elevator, I recorded the Day 88 video, which I had to in New York City, unfortunately not in front of Drake's house. So it's been 88 days in a row. And I thought that, you know, it was going to be about winning Drake over. And I have made good contact with the guy who's the head of security at Drake's place in Toronto, this guy named Bucky.
- [55:47]
B
Has he bought Open Door?
- [55:48]
A
He bought Open Door, he bought Opendoor.
- [55:50]
B
Because maybe he'll be richer than Drake soon.
- [55:52]
A
And he bought better too. And he was like, he's a perfect guy. That illustrates the people that are kind of following this whole rising dynasty because the idea that he could make a hundred X from a stock, when I explained it to him, he was like, really? He's like, what if I put $10,000 into this thing? And I was like, well, Bucky, if I'm right. And 100x is. Then you would be worth a million bucks. He's like, he couldn't believe it. He was blown away. The concept just hadn't entered his mind. And so he said like, well, the guy that you got to talk to is Future. And I was like, future, like, that's a guy. And he's like, yeah, it's. That's the Drake's business manager. We call him. We all call him Future. And he's like, been part of the crew for the last 15 years and stuff. But he would, he would want to hear more about this. So I'm trying to get in touch with Future. Some people from Open Door on the board have actually been in touch with the Future. There's talk about like a Super bowl commercial and all this kind of stuff, you know, with Drake and Opendoor. We'll have to see. Oh, if I gave, if I gave. If I gave Drake and Future some business advice, it'd be like, get paid in stock, you know, for, for what you do. Okay? Because this thing could 100x. So I haven't given up on, on, on that at all. And, you know, we'll keep. I don't know how many days I'm going to be out there. And people sometimes worry like, what are you going to do in the winter, Eric? And I'm like, well, we have coats in Canada and stuff like that. But, but the. But I have, I have tried to broaden it more recently because you got to keep it fresh. And so we, we, we do some videos in the Drake's neighborhood because there are a lot of celebrities that are kind of nearby. And what I've found from people who've watched the videos is they say, Eric. I started watching them because I was like, who is this hedge fund guy standing in front of Drake's house? It was so off the wall. But then I sort of. I just like that you're the kind of person that would do whatever it takes to kind of help this stock. And then all of a sudden I started noticing that I liked just getting these messages from you every day. And now it's like a part of my morning routine where I want to wake up and I want to see like, what crazy thing like Eric, you know, says in his little video at 7am in the morning. So it's more of like, you know, emotional support. Like we, you know, sometimes there are bad weeks in the market and people are frustrated with an Open Door dropped from eight bucks to six bucks or something. Like, what does it mean and, and so if I can try to help, you know, offer some assurances during those periods of time, like that's what the video messages have sort of morphed into. And so whether or not Drake buys, I hope he does because I think he'd make a lot of money. Apparently he does like to buy bitcoin, I've heard. And sports betting.
- [58:35]
B
I've heard that.
- [58:35]
A
Yeah. So like he lost something like $750,000 on the US Open, like betting that this guy sinner would win the tennis in the US Open Open. And so if I get my chance with Future, I'll be like, future, just like, take half of Drake's sports betting budget and put it into 100 bagger socks and guys will be so much better off.
- [58:56]
B
So if Drake called you on your cell phone, you had a minute to talk to him, what would you say?
- [59:01]
A
I would say like, hey, Drake, you're the most successful artist in the world. This is what people don't realize about drake. He's had 88 top 10 billboard hits. Do you know how many The Beatles had? 30. Taylor Swift has only had 33. So he has. He's not just a great rapper. He is like this great artist. I don't know what he's. I don't know what he's worth. Like, let's say he's worth a billion dollars or something after I think he's been been a rapper for like 15 years. But like the power of compounding and investing and like, whether it's for my grandfather or it's for Drake is like if, if he put in, you know, for him a small amount of his money into something like Opendoor, and it did 100x, suddenly in two or three years, he's worth 4 billion instead of 1 billion. And so I don't care how many tours he goes on in Europe, how much merch he sells, how many OVO shirts he sells, that's the power of investing. And so part of the whole Drake thing has also been it's not about celebrity worship. It's about, about showing everybody, whether they're in Germany, you know, whether they're in Alaska. We got like Alaskan fishermen, like watching these videos, investing in stocks for the first time. Sometimes on these like 10 week trips out in the Bering Sea, on using Starlink, trading stocks and stocks like Opendoor, because they want to take the 60,000 that they've earned in the last few months fishing to double it, triple it, or something like that. So it's like this power of compounding, you know, whether it's in bitcoin. Like, the important thing is, like, we have to get more people into the pool. We have to get more people excited and to see the potential of what they can make if they just start small but start doing it religiously.
- [60:48]
B
So you'd say, hey, Drake, buy open.
- [60:51]
A
Yeah, there are like, amazing album covers with me, like, in place of Drake giving advice, like, you know, like he has one album cover where he's like, got all these like cartoons, like baby mamas or something. And somebody put in Eric Jackson, like, holding like Drake's bags of money, like protecting Drake's bags and all this kind of stuff. So, yeah, Drake, I mean, it's a. It's a sure thing. And nothing would win the Kendrick war more than being able to say, hey, I put some of my money in open. And now I'm the first guy who is conclusively, like, bigger than anybody else in terms of my billions that I got from investors investing. That's. That's the other thing. All these guys like, they, they like to be, you know, did you ever notice, like, one of them starts a clothing line and then ever all these other artists start copying the clothing line is. Kevin Durant got into venture investing because he played for the Golden State Warriors. All of a sudden, like every. Every athlete had to make investments in VC funds. Where is the athlete that's going to be the first one to be this, like, ultra billionaire because they got behind 100x stock or crypto or bitcoin.
- [61:59]
B
I'm waiting for Taylor Swift to be a big bitcoiner, maybe write a song about. Has been such a pleasure, Eric. You know what's cool too, is a lot of people look at folks like hedge fund managers and the suits and they're not really that relatable or they think they're not. And you're just. You're one of us. So I love that. I know you have a huge following. People are going to be so excited to hear from you. Thanks so much for joining me. Any final thoughts?
- [62:22]
A
Hey, thanks for giving me the opportunity to kind of spread the word about Drake and the power of investing and the power of bitcoin. I'm super excited. I've. I've. The open army is with you, Natalie. And I think they're. They're going to be, you know, big believers in. They are big believers in bitcoin. They love kind of the message that you espouse. And so good luck with, with the launch of your. Of your new book too. I know that's going to do great things.
- [62:48]
B
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. And if you can, turn on those notifications patience and leave us a positive review. They really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up@thenewsblock.substack.com this show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as official investment advice, and you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach out@infoalkingbitcoin.com I'll see you next time.