Coin Stories: Michael Saylor – Fixing Broken Credit Markets with Bitcoin

Host: Natalie Brunell
Guest: Michael Saylor (Executive Chairman, MicroStrategy, Bitcoin proponent)
Date: September 19, 2025

Main Theme

This episode dives into Michael Saylor’s vision of how Bitcoin can address fundamental flaws in the current global credit markets, the future of wealth concentration, and what it takes for the financial world to truly embrace Bitcoin. Saylor provides an in-depth explanation of the mechanics behind new bitcoin-backed credit instruments, why traditional finance resists change, and why he believes Bitcoin is the peaceful revolution society needs right now.

1. Market Sentiment: Bullish or Bearish?

[00:37 – 04:32]

• Volatility is Normal: Saylor explains that Bitcoin’s price cycles naturally oscillate between euphoria and consolidation, leading to both exuberance and frustration in the community.

  • "If you zoom out and look at the one year chart, Bitcoin is like, up 99%. ...if anybody in the street and said, hey, I'm heavily invested in an asset that is growing up 100% a year, should I be happy or not? They would say, you should be happy." – Michael Saylor [01:42]

• Wealth Effect & Selling Pressure: Early holders, "crypto OGs," are selling small percentages of their holdings to diversify or fund life expenses, not due to lack of confidence.

  • “They're selling 5%, diversifying… and the market is absorbing all of that energy, building its support. The volatility is coming out of the asset. That's a really good sign." – Michael Saylor [03:20]

2. Why Traditional Finance Resists Bitcoin

[06:14 – 12:48]

• Misunderstanding of Value: Saylor argues that much of what is valuable in life (gold, land, Nobel prizes, fame) doesn't produce cash flows, countering a common TradFi objection.

  • "All of the great things we've acquired in life... kids, they have no cash flows. A house, no cash flows. Right. So the world's full of things... they have no cash flows. And of course, as we know, the perfect money has no cash flows..." – Michael Saylor [06:28]

• Stuck in Old Models: Institutions use outdated “particular solutions”–like S&P 500 index investing–without reconsidering first principles in times of change.

  • “Most people have never in their life had to derive anything from first principles… That breaks down when, for example, your entire currency collapses." – Michael Saylor [10:12]

• Global Currency Collapse Lessons: In nations suffering hyperinflation, even cash-flowing assets lose value if denominated in a dying currency.

• Irony Highlighted: Traditional investors say Bitcoin isn’t investable due to lack of cash flows, while their own institutions (e.g., Vanguard) hold Saylor’s firm’s shares.

3. Broken Credit Markets & The Bitcoin Solution

[13:13 – 22:32]

• Broken Yields: Around the world, bank accounts and bonds offer yields below the real inflation rate (monetary repression).

  • "The credit markets are weak. They're unhealthy... A lot of markets are yield starved." – Michael Saylor [14:33]

• No Fair Long-Term Yields: No company or government can credibly offer >10% returns “ad infinitum” because of structural weaknesses.

• Bitcoin as a Superior Collateral:

  • Bitcoin’s appreciation (~29% per year, by Saylor’s forecast) makes it unparalleled as overcollateralized digital capital.
  • Allows for creating new “digital credit”—yielding instruments backed by appreciating BTC, offering higher yields and less risk than most current credit instruments.

• Currency Risk Dynamics: By issuing credit in weaker currencies (yen, euro, USD, etc.) and collateralizing with stronger Bitcoin, bankruptcy risk is reduced.

• Innovating in Credit:

  • “We can create credit which is less risky. We can create durations which are longer. We can create yields that are higher.” – Michael Saylor [20:33]
  • Credit instruments backed by Bitcoin can become both more attractive and more accessible, driving institutional adoption and capital inflows into Bitcoin.

4. New Credit Instruments: Strike, Stryfe, Stride, Stretch

[22:32 – 38:21]

• Perpetual Preferred Stocks:

  • Saylor dissects how perpetual preferreds give flexible rights (yield, conversion, seniority) without requiring the company to repay the principal as with debt.

• MicroStrategy’s Four Innovations:

  • Strike: 8% dividend at par + conversion to company equity; blend of yield and upside.
  • Stryfe (STRF): 10% perpetual dividend, senior in capital structure – “Senior, long duration credit” targeting risk-averse fixed-income investors.
  • Stride (STRD): Junior, non-cumulative 10% perpetual with higher effective yield (12.7%); more popular despite increased risk due to higher yields.
    • “People would say, well, why would someone want to buy that when it doesn't have a cumulative right… because they believe in Bitcoin. And they trust the company and they want the yield.” – Michael Saylor [32:50]
  • Stretch: Variable, monthly-yield instrument aimed at mimicking a high-yield, low-volatility money market product with bitcoin as backing. Used AI to structure it.
    • “We invented the treasury preferred stock with AI. I used AI to do it. Nobody else would have thought to do it because they never had an asset that would justify doing this.” – Michael Saylor [37:16]

5. Where Does the Yield Come From?

[38:21 – 40:25]

• Saylor clarifies that most dividend payments for preferreds come from new equity raised; in a crunch, they could be supported by selling bitcoin-backed derivatives or credit instruments.
  • “We basically sell the first $600 million of the equity, we use it to fund the dividends. The rest of the $20 billion we just buy more bitcoin with.” – Michael Saylor [39:06]
• The plan is to eventually have these instruments rated by major agencies, setting the stage for wider institutional adoption.

6. Roadblocks to Institutional Embrace

[40:25 – 46:40]

• S&P 500 Exclusion: MicroStrategy only just became eligible in 2025; Saylor expects inclusion after a few more quarters of proven performance.
• Embryonic Industry: Bitcoin treasury companies are analogous to the early days of oil refining—investors, companies, and regulators are all still figuring out what is possible and how to value these new entities.
  • “This is the digital gold rush… There’s going to be a lot of… mistakes made and a lot of fortunes created… This is what the chaos of the market [is].” – Michael Saylor [45:44]

7. Message of Hope & Media Manipulation

[46:40 – 54:25]

• Division is Manufactured:

  • Saylor shares a personal note, reflecting on division in the country post the Charlie Kirk assassination, and within the Bitcoin community. He asserts most of the “toxicity” is amplified or manufactured by bots and paid agitators for media or financial motives.
    • “A lot of the toxic, inflammatory behavior online is actually cyber marketing or guerrilla marketing. …it turns out… the toxicity… is a bot.” – Michael Saylor [48:00]
    • “My message would be that we actually all have a lot more in common, and we agree on a lot more things than the mainstream media would lead you to believe.” – Michael Saylor [47:18]

• Media Amplifies Negativity: "If it bleeds, it leads." News and social platforms highlight paid or fake protests, distorting public perception.

• Advice for Listeners: Don’t feed trolls (real or digital), question inflammatory narratives, and recognize the healing, unifying potential of systems like Bitcoin.

8. Bitcoin as Peaceful Revolution

[54:25 – 55:03]

• “Bitcoin is a peaceful, fair, and equitable way for us to settle our differences as everyone embraces it. Peace will spread. Equity will spread. Fairness will spread. Truth will spread. Toxicity should decay.” – Michael Saylor [54:45]

Selected Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Bitcoin’s Bear Cycles:
  • “The truth is, if you zoom out and look at the one year chart, Bitcoin is like, up 99%. …should I be happy or not? They would say, you should be happy.” [01:42]
• On Traditional Valuation Logic:
  • “The world's full of things… that are deemed valuable… that have no cash flows. …the perfect money has no cash flows.” [06:28]
• On Credit Market Dysfunction:
  • “All of these countries… are suffering from a form of monetary repression where… the fiat yields are less than the monetary expansion rate and the rate at which scarce desirable assets are appreciating.” [14:17]
• On Incentives and Media:
  • “The civil unrest is being paid for. …there are actors that create the civil unrest in cyberspace. They create it in the real world. Then there’s unhealthy media that amplify…” [52:04]
• On Bitcoin’s Promise:
  • “Bitcoin is a peaceful, fair, and equitable way for us to settle our differences… Peace will spread. Equity will spread. Fairness will spread. Truth will spread. Toxicity should decay.” [54:45]

Final Tone

Michael Saylor remains bullish and hopeful about Bitcoin’s future, painting it as both an institutional-grade financial instrument and a social movement for peace, fairness, and equity. Despite criticism, skepticism, and volatility, he urges listeners to zoom out, reject media-driven negativity, and embrace both the innovation and unity Bitcoin empowers.

End of Summary.