Coin Stories Podcast: Samourai Wallet CEO Keonne Rodriguez – Guilty Plea, Prison Ahead, and the Fight for Privacy in Bitcoin

Host: Natalie Brunell
Guest: Keonne Rodriguez, CEO and co-founder of Samourai Wallet
Date: December 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Keonne Rodriguez, the CEO and co-founder of Samourai Wallet, following his guilty plea and sentencing to five years in federal prison. Rodriguez discusses the case against him, his motivations for building privacy tools for Bitcoin, the broader implications for privacy, and his outlook as he prepares for incarceration. The conversation explores the tension between user privacy and regulatory targeting of privacy-focused technology, the state’s evolving stance toward software developers, and Rodriguez’s personal reflections on justice, privacy, and the future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: What is Samourai Wallet and Whirlpool?

[01:56 – 04:37]

• Samourai Wallet:
  • Launched in 2015 as a non-custodial Bitcoin wallet; aimed to solve privacy issues on Bitcoin’s public ledger.
  • Used “mathematics and clever tricks” to provide transactional privacy.
• Whirlpool:
  • Whirlpool is a “mixing” service integrated into Samourai, designed to break the on-chain link between sender and recipient.
  • Unlike traditional mixers where users give up custody of their funds, in Samourai/Whirlpool users retain full control of their private keys at all times.
  • Key distinction: “You never give up custody of your private keys. That’s a very important distinction.” (B, [04:08])

2. Legal Rationale and Regulatory Context

[06:35 – 10:31]

• Conscious Design Choices:
  • Avoiding custody was deliberate to avoid entering the regulated space of Money Service Businesses (MSBs) subject to KYC/AML.
• FinCEN Guidelines:
  • 2013 and 2019 guidance indicated that only services taking custody of user funds are considered money transmitters/MSBs.
  • Rodriguez and counsel believed Samourai’s model was legal: “By never taking custody, we never stepped into the realm of money transmission.” (B, [08:35])
  • FinCEN clearly differentiated between software providers and transmitters.

3. The Imperative of Financial Privacy

[10:31 – 15:00]

• Privacy as Censorship Resistance:
  • Rodriguez’s initial attraction to Bitcoin was its potential to be “censorship-resistant and separate money from state.”
  • Over time, the Bitcoin community’s focus drifted from privacy to scaling/investment; Rodriguez saw this as a risk.
  • Motivation: “Instead of complaining, we decided to build software for better privacy on Bitcoin.” (B, [13:37])
• Open Ledger Risks:
  • On Bitcoin, if someone ties your identity to an address, “they can effectively see your bank balance… that could put a target on your back.” (A, [10:41])

4. From Innovation to Indictment: The Raid and Prosecution

[15:00 – 16:07]

• Operated “openly and notoriously for almost 10 years” before a dramatic FBI raid in April 2024.
• Rodriguez believed he was operating within legal bounds: “We thought we were clearly in bounds of the law… our legal counsel agreed.” (B, [15:36])

5. Why Plead Guilty? The Legal Ordeal

[16:07 – 22:11]

• Withheld Exculpatory Evidence:
  • Received delayed evidence that FinCEN had told prosecutors Samourai did NOT qualify as a money service business due to no custody.
  • Motioned to dismiss based on this; new judge (with prosecution-friendly reputation) denied all motions without opinion or explanation.
  • Faced a potential 25-year sentence if found guilty at trial; plea agreement for 5 years was a pragmatic choice.
  • “The downside of 25 years versus five years ... conviction means 25 years.” (B, [20:47])

6. Evidence and Prosecutorial Narrative

[22:11 – 26:51]

• “Money Laundering for Bitcoin” WhatsApp Quote:
  • Rodriguez says the quote was out of context—a lazy analogy to a friend with no technical understanding.
  • “Had they released the rest of the messages ... I did go into further detail and explain ... it was about protecting your identity from criminals.” (B, [23:22])
• 2020 Twitter Hack Accusations:
  • Prosecutors claimed Rodriguez encouraged hackers to use Whirlpool; he counters this was clear satire and that he actually outed the hackers.
  • “Facilitating crime is not what I’m about... I’m the one who de-anonymized their transactions.” (B, [25:35])
• On General Criminal Activity:
  • Acknowledges criminals will use privacy tools, as they do with any tech: “Criminals use Signal, VPNs, Tor, everything.” (B, [28:45])
  • No evidence provided that Rodriguez had specific knowledge or facilitated specific crimes.

7. Ethics, Responsibility, and the Software Analogy

[29:33 – 34:27]

• Clarifies his aim was to serve the “permissionless market,” not specifically the dark web or criminal activity.
• Points out that most users in the “black market” are engaged in legal but non-permissioned activities.
• Compares Bitcoin mixing to a tool: “We don’t hold software developers accountable for the actions that their users take ... it would be like holding Microsoft accountable because drug dealers use Excel.” (B, [51:55])
• Argues that just because criminals may use a tool doesn’t mean the tool is criminal in purpose or its creators complicit.

8. Illicit Volume and Business Model

[34:27 – 38:43]

• DOJ alleged $237 million of “illicit funds” of $2 billion total volume. Rodriguez says that may be plausible but not unique to Bitcoin; legacy finance handles higher percentages.
• Revenue:
  • $6 million over ten years—a tiny fraction of transaction volume.
  • Fees were flat and low, mainly to prevent spam, not enrich founders.
  • “We weren’t running Samourai Wallet to get ultra wealthy ... we truly believe in privacy.” (B, [36:38])
• Legal Debt:
  • Government could not seize the funds directly; imposed bail conditions preventing crypto transactions.
  • Rodriguez over $2.5 million in debt to law firm and friends, as all earnings were forfeited as part of the plea.

9. Civil Forfeiture and the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve

[39:01]

• Despite an executive order mandating forfeited Bitcoin go to a national reserve, Rodriguez says the DOJ sold the coins instead: “They sold those bitcoins almost immediately, thereby violating the executive order.” (B, [39:09])

10. Appeal, Pardon, and Presidential Politics

[39:30 – 45:29]

• Direct appeal is unlikely due to nature of plea agreement.
• Rodriguez calls on President Trump for a pardon, framing his prosecution as an attack by a “weaponized DOJ”:
  • “This was a weaponized DOJ operating under a novel new theory that somehow a software provider is responsible for the actions of their end users. They’ve never done that before.” (B, [40:45])
  • Expresses hope that Trump understands and will act due to his own experience with “weaponized justice.”

11. Balancing Privacy and Crime Prevention

[41:29]

• Argues law enforcement has always had to work around privacy:
  • “Our whole society is built on these fundamental rights that frustrate law enforcement ... we accept that as a society because the alternative is far worse.” (B, [41:56])
• Sees upholding privacy—even against criminal misuse—as fundamental.

12. Personal Reflections: Prison, Regret, and Support

[45:29 – 55:51]

• Rodriguez does not regret his tweets/jokes that became evidence: “I thought it was funny, and I still think it’s funny ... the whole idea of a conspiracy charge is absolutely nonsense.” (B, [45:35])
• Does not regret taking the plea: the risks of a 25-year sentence and financial ruin were too great.
• Preparing for prison by organizing household affairs for his wife; feels more concerned for her situation than his own.
• Support of wife/family: “She’s been supportive ... she understands it better than most people.” (B, [50:24])
• Not afraid of prison, feeling prepared after speaking with others who have gone through the system.
• Message to critics: “It’s impossible for me to have facilitated those things [crimes]. What I did was create software.” (B, [51:55])
• Open-source code lives on; Samourai and Whirlpool have been forked and live “underground,” resilient to legal attacks.

13. Final Thoughts and Petition

[54:45]

• Encourages listeners to learn more and sign the pardon petition at billandkeone.org.
• Notes the importance of community support (referencing Ross Ulbricht’s petition and eventual release).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On privacy and censorship resistance:
  “You can’t have censorship resistance without privacy. The two are married.” (B, [12:58])

• On prosecution:
  “This was a raw deal... a weaponized DOJ ... This is a novel application by the Department of Justice. We just don’t do that.” (B, [40:45], [51:55])

• On criminal activity and software:
  “Criminals use everything. I knew that criminals would use something like Samourai. But the government never gave any evidence of specific criminals using the tools, me and them talking about it.” (B, [28:45])

• On law enforcement and privacy:
  “Our whole society is built on these fundamental rights that frustrate law enforcement ... but we accept that as a society, because the alternative is far worse.” (B, [41:56])

• On regret:
  “No, I don’t regret it ... I don’t think that the government should be able to take tweets and messages out of context and use it to get you convict you on a conspiracy charge.” (B, [45:35])

• On the persistence of code:
  “The code is out there ... Pandora’s box is open now, there’s no putting it back in.” (B, [54:01])

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:56 | Samourai Wallet/Whirlpool explained | | 06:35 | Design choices to avoid legal jeopardy | | 10:31 | Importance of privacy in Bitcoin | | 15:00 | The raid and beginning of prosecution | | 16:07 | Why Rodriguez pled guilty, withheld evidence, judge change | | 22:11 | Prosecutorial evidence: WhatsApp message, Twitter Hack claims | | 28:45 | Knowledge of criminal activity; can privacy tools be policed? | | 34:27 | DOJ estimates of illicit funds, business model | | 39:01 | Civil forfeiture and the strategic Bitcoin reserve issue | | 40:45 | Message to President Trump, plea for pardon | | 45:35 | On regret over public statements/tweets | | 54:45 | Call to action: petition for pardon at billandkeone.org |

Further Information

For more about the case or to support Keonne Rodriguez and Bill Hill’s pardon campaign:

• Visit: billandkeone.org
• Petition: Change.org link found directly on their home page.
• Final message from Rodriguez:
  “If you’ve heard me and think, ‘Oh, maybe there is something to this,’ … sign the petition … If you’ve heard me and said, ‘No, I’m not convinced, you definitely deserve to go to prison,’ that’s okay too. I am going to prison, so don’t sign it.” (B, [55:12])

Coin Stories continues to cover cases at the intersection of Bitcoin, law, and individual liberty—highlighting both technological advances and the ongoing legal battles that may define the future of money and privacy.