← Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
Stafford Masie: Why the Rest of the World Gets Bitcoin Wrong
00:32:15
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- [00:00]
A
We always say, like, we think bitcoin was made for us, not for you guys. Because when you guys talk about bitcoin, you talk about bitcoin in a way that we don't fully comprehend. We don't understand what your issues are. You guys are number go up, number go down. You worried about the price? We like, have you forgotten what this thing is? It's immutable, it's decentralized. It gives me power that I've never had before. So if you go back to Africa, I think you go back to what bitcoin was made for.
- [00:27]
B
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Joining me this week is Stafford Massie. He is the executive chairman and director of bitcoin strategy at the Africa Bitcoin Corporation. ABC Stafford, thanks so much for joining me here in New York.
- [00:39]
A
Thanks for having me. So finally Africa's here.
- [00:42]
B
Yeah. You just joined me from what? South Africa is where you're based.
- [00:45]
A
Yeah, South Africa, where we flew in and New York's freezing, but what a privilege. We are huge fans and I think the impact that you've had in South Africa and Africa is significant. You've orange pulled a lot of us and so it's surreal to sit across you and to speak to you and thank you.
- [01:00]
B
That means the world to me. I can't wait to talk to you because I feel like so much is happening on your continent. You actually have the youngest population. Right. A lot of people getting into bitcoin. So first, just share your backstory. For those who aren't familiar with who you are, what you do, share with us your backstory, how you got into bitcoin and what ABC is.
- [01:18]
A
So my backstory is I've been in Bitcoin since 2014. I got in when I was building a little device that plugged into a phone that converted the phone into a card acceptance machine. It was more or less the same time Jack Dorsey was doing it, but when Square was doing it, he was plugging a little white dongle into the phone and he had an easy job because you guys in the United States were doing only mag swipes where we were, we had adopted emv, so I had to chip and pin. So I had to actually do a secure card across a non secure device into a banking fabric. So when bitcoin came along, I was very deep in building banking fabric and actually energizing a chip on a card to go through a phone into a PCI DSS data center and then the whole acquiring and issuing and switching and someone came along and said, this thing allows you to convey or transmit value, no intermediary, more securely than we've ever been, that's. Than it's ever been done in the history of humanity. And I looked at it, I went, this is absolute rubbish. And it took me some time to get to it, but we all approach it in the skeuomorphic way and, and I looked through kind of the traditional banking lens, but when it finally dropped, it dropped. And I've been a bitcoin maxi ever since. And I joined the board of abc. Before it was called abc, it was Alt Face Capital. And the reason I love the business, it's Warren Wheatley founded it, that's our CEO. It's a business that was a private capital business, a private credit business that deploys capital into SMMEs in Africa. And it's had a huge impact story and what he wanted to do with it. And I saw the evidence of it and what I loved about it, it was skewed towards African females. So if you're an African female and you apply for a private credit loan, you actually get biased in a positive way so it's cheaper. And I love that story. And I thought, let me be a part of it. I became the chairman of the board and with a lot of board changes, etc. And then I tried to do the bitcoin maxi thing with him for a while. It took him a little bit, but then he got it. And when he got it, we sat down and said, how could we take a private credit, traditional private credit business and shove a bitcoin nuclear weapon into its engine and do kind of what Saylor did, what Saylor's done with digital credit. We thought, why can't we do it with private credit in Africa? And that model works better for us over there because our market's completely different from your market. Your markets are, you know, you got, you guys have low yield, high, high capital, like lots of capital, low yield. So you yield starved. I'm the exact opposite of that. I have huge yields, but I'm capital starved. So what are we doing with the Bitcoin is not generating yield. I don't have to generate yield. I take bitcoin and I harvest yield, right? So I've got a lightsaber. I have the capability to take a private traditional credit engine that gets money from fixed income allocators like pension funds. And its weighted average cost of capital is about 12 to 15%. So we lend out at 18 to 25%. And that's cheap. That's really, really cheap compared to any of our competitors. When you go into Zimbabwe, you make a loan as an SME. In Zimbabwe, you pay 20% per month.
- [04:18]
B
What's an SME?
- [04:19]
A
A small and medium enterprise.
- [04:20]
B
Okay.
- [04:21]
A
Yeah. So you pay 20% your interest on your loan.
- [04:24]
B
That's crazy.
- [04:25]
A
So it's high yields, Right? So if, imagine we could take bitcoin, put it on our balance sheet, lower the cost of capital, so actually lend it. So for the first time, we have a piece of collateral that someone anywhere in the world will accept and we can lend against it. We've never had that in Africa.
- [04:40]
B
Wow.
- [04:41]
A
I can't take my Cape Town apartment, that's worth a lot of money. Right. And fly to Switzerland and lend against it. No one will do anything. I can't take gold. Gold doesn't work for us. Because what I'm going to put on a ship and then send us, it doesn't. It's not practical. Bitcoins come along and we have this pristine, perfect money. They wouldn't go anywhere in the world. And we can lend and we can. We can do an LTV of 30% on it and get a loan at less than 5%. That drops my weighted average cost of capital by 10%.
- [05:09]
B
That's fascinating. Are the yields higher because there's essentially more risk?
- [05:14]
A
Yeah, it's risk. It's a risky environment. That's how bonds are high.
- [05:17]
B
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- [06:37]
A
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- [06:44]
B
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- [07:28]
A
So what makes us different? Underlying the substrate is, you know, it's high yields, low capital. You live in a market where the median age is very high. Where I live, it's the average age is 19.
- [07:38]
B
Wow.
- [07:38]
A
Yeah. More than 25% of the continent is below the age of 20.
- [07:43]
B
It's wild.
- [07:44]
A
It's wild. And you know what's really cool? AI is unlocking so much latent human potential. So when SMME sit in front of us, these small and medium enterprises, the ideas, the, the, the, the, the collateral that they have to securitize their loans. It's extraordinary. So people always think about small and medium enterprises in Africa as like shack and. No, these are businesses that come from an informal economy. That's extraordinary. And young people that are unlocking all the natural resources in Africa utilizing AI and they love bitcoin. So bitcoin. Where I come from, bitcoin is money. You guys talk about bitcoin when we come here, we laugh and we're like,
- [08:21]
B
the store of value.
- [08:22]
A
The store of value. And we're like, huh? It's money. It's money. It's. In some places where I come from, there's circular economies where it's a unit of account. They won't accept dollars, they'll accept satoshis. They don't want your dollars, they want satoshis. And when we bring Americans or Europeans to South Africa and they look at this, it's very fascinating because you'll see European tourists coming. And we have this little black kid teaching this European tourist about a bitcoin wallet. And it's like, this is how it works. So we leapfrogging, just like we did with mobile, we had nothing and we went to mobile. So we're going from broken money. Debasement. When you guys talk about debasement, you talk about 4% and 5% annually. We talk about 4, 5% in an afternoon. That's the world where we come from. So when you give us pristine capital, it becomes a substrate. Not a store value, it becomes a capital substrate. It's something that we can, you can build off this thing, you can live off this thing. And when you guys see them, you know, is it going to go to 40k? Is it going to go to 50k? Yeah, that's a very like westernized view.
- [09:22]
B
So, okay, when we hear, you know, the different asset bubbles, how much they're worth, we see equities and they're worth like, I think now it's $135 trillion. So of that, like, what is African equities? What's that worth?
- [09:34]
A
It's massive. I mean, the unlocked capital in the equities is extraordinary. We see dry, just dry money in corporations across Africa. We expect at about $100 trillion, $100 billion. SMME unlock is about $350 billion. Our play is Pan African. So we listed on the Johannesburg stock exchange. And what makes us different as a Treasury company is not the fact that we just listed and we representing a country like, you know, we got Metal Planet in Japan, you got Strategy usa, you got Smarter Wave, uk Africa. Bitcoin corporation is Africa. It's continental. So our JSC is the most mature stock exchange. And we represent the entire continent when we represent it to investors. And that's the opportunity. So 1.5 billion people. We're going to be 2 billion people by 2030. Youngest population, fastest growing in the world. Natural resources unmatched. Our SMME base is dying for capital and they can't gain access to that capital. And that's a, that's a TAM for us.
- [10:34]
B
Well, and your continent is so rich with resources.
- [10:36]
A
Yes.
- [10:37]
B
And I think that people underestimate how much development is going to happen there, especially over the coming decades with this young population growing up with tools like Bitcoin. Can you maybe explain a little bit more about how it's being used as money, especially for Those who, again, here in the west we see it as this store of value and I think a lot of people are like, no, it can't be money because it's too volatile. How could you, you know, you earn Bitcoin and then tomorrow it's worth half of what it was. That's even worse than the inflation rates in some of these currencies. What do you say to that?
- [11:07]
A
So first of all, if you take a look at how informal economies, you know, if you look at Jesse Myers's breakdown, which you referred to earlier, which is like equities, cash and you know, you got collectibles etc in Africa, our informal economies are cash economies. They're massive, they big. In South Africa, the cash, we call it informal. And when we say informal I think it's unfair because it always makes them less than the formal economy. But it's massive. I grew up in an informal economy, you know, I saw money broken. When payments don't work in Africa, people die. And we don't really comprehend that. And so when you take a look at what we do with money in the informal economy, first of all, the size of that, arguably in South Africa alone is 30 times the GDP of South Africa. But it's unmeasured. We don't know how big it is. We think it's about 30 times the size. But when I grew up, cash was very well structured, very sophisticated. An ATM to me when I grew up was a, was a, a black lady that lived a couple of streets from our block. I knocked at a window at 11 o' clock at night and I told her I need 100 grand and she'd give me 100 grand. And she'd say, remember, tell your dad I want my 110rand back on Wednesday. And when I looked over her shoulder, money was laying, piled up on her kitchen. I could get a bar of soap, I could get a beer, I could get the money and I could walk away at 11 o' clock at night. It's extraordinary. No one would touch that money. She's protected. Everyone knows her history, she knows everyone else. That's extreme sophistication.
- [12:34]
B
That's really extraordinary.
- [12:36]
A
Yeah, that's extraordinary. So if you take a look at that and you look at the banking world, the banking world is inconvenient. But you take a look at how the informal economy has emerged around cash. It's extraordinary. We also see people that have built, they have so much money. We have SMEs, small immediate enterprises that approach us for loans. Banks won't look at them. Banks just won't touch SMEs in Africa because the yields are so big in just government bonds. So they won't touch them. VCs won't go anywhere near them. But when we take our analysts and we actually sit down with them, it's extraordinary what we see coming back. I mean, people have. There's a lady that came to us and she wanted a loan, and we said, okay, how do you securitize this loan? And she showed us that she had built houses and put money into the houses. She had houses with money inside of it because she didn't put the money into the bank.
- [13:23]
B
Gosh, that's so crazy. So do you feel like there's a lot of just untapped potential with entrepreneurs and builders in Africa who just are not able to secure capital because of how high the interest rates are? And Bitcoin could be used as a solution?
- [13:39]
A
Totally. That's exactly. That's our model. Right. So it's already being utilized by the young folks. But the, the untapped, later Newman potential in Africa. We've always said Africa's rising. And people have become skeptical of that. Like, when is it going to rise? When is this going to happen? And I think we've been waiting for two things. I think we've been waiting for perfect money. And it's here in Africa. We know that the age before 2008 and the age after 2008, right? It's like after the Bitcoin white paper. And before the Bitcoin white paper, our lives changed because suddenly we had something that couldn't be debased. It was immutable, decentralized, can't be confiscated. I mean, that to an African, is life or death. It's not convenience, it's life or death for us. So perfect money, but at the same time, now we've got artificial cognitions. So we have access of a mobile phone to so many disparate species of cognitions that give us the ability to pick up soil, take a picture and tell us how we should fertilize it, what we should do with it, etc. So we've got thousands of PhDs that we can throw at a little farmer and he can do something different. And now he can generate wealth and store that wealth, but also collateralize that wealth. So when he comes to me and sits down with me, I have the ability to deploy capital at a lower, much, much lower interest rate than ever before. And the traditional capital allocators in Africa, their weighted average cost of Capital is biased. They're sitting with family office money that's expecting a certain return. We raise Bitcoin through equity, we take that bitcoin, we loan against that Bitcoin and we take the lent money and we put it into our private credit engine and we deploy it into our private credit engine and the profits and proceeds from that feeds back into our treasury. So that flywheel I believe right now in treasury world is probably the only company that's a bitcoin treasury company that has an accretive flywheel that works so beautifully across a continent. And that's what's exciting about our company. We actually have a flywheel. We have a core business that makes sense relative to our Bitcoin treasury play.
- [15:34]
B
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- [17:52]
A
It's growing. It's growing. It's just. It's growing in places where it's. It's. There are no journalists there. There are no eyes that can see it.
- [17:59]
B
Okay.
- [17:59]
A
But if you understand the communities where it is growing, it's growing. Expone, we've got. When you land in Cape Town, we can take you along the garden route, which is not just informal economies. We now have the upper lsm, the more formal economies that have switched completely to bitcoin. Right. And you can. We can take you and you can see how people are using it as money. So, yes, it is absolutely growing.
- [18:20]
B
It's not isolated because sometimes, like, I've been to El Salvador and it felt very isolated to. Bitcoin's used as a circular economy in El Dante. But then you go to San Salvador and it's a mixed bag. Some people are like, I don't like it. And some people are using it and familiar.
- [18:34]
A
I think the same. And I think what's, you know, bitcoin at the moment, on a macro basis, we've lost two macro narratives. I think stablecoins have taken off in Africa and that's paused bitcoin adoption to a certain extent in certain communities.
- [18:47]
B
Oh, really?
- [18:48]
A
Yeah. That's what we have seen, because just the utility of a. Of a USDT or USDC is extraordinary. The ability to send it anywhere in the world, across African borders, remittances, USDT makes a lot of sense. We've seen the flows of stablecoins across Africa. The adoption is extraordinary. So in terms of movement of money, we can argue that bitcoin becomes kind of your savings account and your USDT is your checking account. It's evolving. So that's one part of the narrative that I have seen affect bitcoin in Africa, where we thought the adoption would be higher, but people are moving towards stablecoins. But that will play out in time.
- [19:25]
B
You think it'll eventually converge into bitcoin.
- [19:28]
A
The nice thing is when they get a usdt, they kind of understand the rails, they understand what to do with
- [19:34]
B
it and inevitably it's easier one step away.
- [19:36]
A
Yeah, that's. That's what happens. Yeah.
- [19:38]
B
What about on a government level? Is there a lot of resistance? Because it seems like I've heard some countries very much their, their leadership is very against bitcoin.
- [19:46]
A
And that's opportunity too. I mean it's a massive continent. You can fit the United States, China, all of Europe, except like when you look at the Mercado map, Africa from a scale perspective, it's a lie. What you were showing at school is a lie. Africa is much, much bigger than that. It's a massive continent. And when you go there, you take a look at it, it's extraordinary. So, so yeah, we, we see governments slowly coming around. South Africa, very advanced when it comes to legislation. When they have. They've allowed us. We are publicly traded company for the last three years. We didn't just adopt a bitcoin strategy. Look at what we did. I think we one of the few, if maybe the only bitcoin treasury company that has bitcoin in our name. Right. Africa Bitcoin Corporation. Because we believe so much in the asset that we wanted it in our name. We didn't want some separate name. I think that's a huge.
- [20:34]
B
You have Safedin as an advisor now, right?
- [20:35]
A
Yeah, I was gonna peek on that.
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B
Oh, sorry.
- [20:39]
A
Yeah, no, totally. He came on board and I think. But from a legislative perspective, yes. In my individual capacity, I've had to work with the South African Reserve bank with we have a working group that looks at crypto. There's still some challenges. I think the biggest challenge in Africa is one of two things. One, when legislation is passed, it's normally crypto legislation versus bitcoin legislation. And that's still a big struggle making them understand there's a digital commodity, there's an asset with our nation and there's all these other things that happen around blockchain world. So that's a le chance. But yes, you're absolutely right. The rails we need to build in Africa to onboard corporations into bitcoin land. They don't. And when you go to we listed in Namibia. There are no crypto exchanges in Namibia. You can't buy. There's no legislation. So it's not illegal. Not legal. It's purgatory. There's no up and down for bitcoin, because you can't buy it anywhere. So when we listed on the Namibia stock exchange, that was an opportunity to buy our equity, to get exposure to the asset. We offered people with bitcoin in the country to send their bitcoin to us and we converted into equity.
- [21:40]
B
Wow.
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A
You know, any other coin, we'd convert it into equity. So that's. You go to Botswana, you know, they sort of frown on it. Zimbabwe, nothing. And as you go further north in Africa, it becomes illegal to deadly if you own bitcoin, because generals don't like the fact that they can't control the money. Right. They can't oversee things. So it can become deadly, owning it. But then it also becomes lifesaving because when the general does come around and you have bitcoin, you can escape, you can send your money somewhere. Yeah.
- [22:08]
B
One of the most impactful narratives and angles for me in understanding bitcoin and appreciating it was Alex Gladstein's work on check your financial privilege and highlighting the voices of people like Farida Naberema, who I featured in bitcoin is for everyone. Can you maybe speak to that for the audience members that aren't aware of how. How much control there has been over the money by nations that are outside of Africa entirely, sometimes literally destroying the purchasing power, inflating and doubling the money supply and destroying the value of what people work so hard for overnight. And how there's sometimes these kind of like military leaderships in place where they will not allow you to flee. And they have all sorts of controls and they've resorted to violence for people who are dissidents.
- [22:58]
A
Yeah, totally. I mean, we live broken money every day. I mean, debasement, broken money. What's interesting is you can't take Solana Cardano and put it into an African village. There is no shitcoin circle economy in the whole of Africa. People adopt bitcoin. And the reason they adopted for exactly this reason. Right. People die. Migration. You know what's very, very interesting? I spoke to the founder of Machankura. Now, Machankura is an application that allows you to buy and send bitcoin via sms. So you don't need a smartphone. You can do it just over sms. And I said to him, what's the number one thing that you picked up when people adopt this? What's the number one thing? He told me this and we kept on chiseling at this question, but he said, he says, the number one thing I've noticed is that young people don't leave their villages anymore. When they adopt bitcoin, they go deep into their culture because now they've got capital that doesn't get debased. They've got complete ownership over it. There's no fear anymore. Their time preference goes down and it just changes their behavior pattern. So we landed on, if people have pristine money, then it solves immigration. Broken money leads to Africans wanting to leave where they are for a better place.
- [24:08]
B
That's really interesting to think about. I mean, my parents would have probably chosen to stay in Poland if they had the freedom and the economic empowerment. But they felt like they had to, they had to leave. They had to risk everything because it wasn't possible where they were in. But they adopt, you know, they. They adopted American values and culture as much as they could. But a lot of it, you know, they still cook Polish, they speak Polish, they talk to Polish people. And it's. You want to stay with the people that you maybe are with and come from.
- [24:35]
A
And these kids are going deep into their culture. So they're going back into like what the musical instruments were and why is it important to their culture, why they wear clothing that they do. And that's enriching the village, the culture, and it's creating a whole brand new economy. When you take a look at bitcoin Icasi, you know, you talk to some of the folks like Herman over there, I asked him the same question. What do you notice? And he said, you know, what's extraordinary is when, when you see a circular economy emerging, the first thing that you notice is waste drops. Yeah, because people don't buy temu and sheen stuff anymore. Because when you've got perfect money, when you have money that's valuable, when you need to buy something with that money, you become a whole lot more introspective. Like, it slows you down, it makes the merchant improve his services because he can't just sell you rubbish. The quality of everything goes up totally. It's extraordinary. So even the surfer kids down there and you know, I have a prediction that I think the first black professional surfer will emerge from South Africa. And that surfer watches what will be on his surfboard with bitcoin. Bitcoin satoshi on a. Why? Because those kids used to earn rands but they couldn't surf and truly live out their dream and their talent because they had to go wash cars, etc. Because the money would be debased, they couldn't pay for the competitions. Now that they're getting money in satoshis, they can spend More time on their boards. And guess what? They can pay for the ticket that the Australian and American kid can pay in the competitions finally. And this is changing their lives.
- [25:59]
B
Wow.
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A
Yeah.
- [25:59]
B
I actually am fascinated by that story because Aubrey Strobel did a fantastic documentary about those kids and I loved it. What do you think is the biggest missing perception about Africa when it comes to Westerners?
- [26:11]
A
I think the risk, I think they see Africa's risk from an investor perspective. They see Africa's risk and what we trying to project is that I think it's a significant opportunity from a pure capitalistic perspective. But I think it's also the misnomer around what the continent is. You always see babies that are starved with flies flying around their mouths. But when you go to Africa, Africa is very sophisticated. Yes, we've got the poor, but we've got big cities, we've got massive infrastructure. And I think there is a renaissance that's occurring. And I think that's one of the reasons that Seifuddin Amus joined us as a bitcoin strategic advisor, because I think he's seen a lot of what he wrote in the bitcoin stand and the Fiat standard actually playing out. And he sees ABC as a company that's taking bitcoin breaking Fiat by bringing it down to its knees, literally lending at a rate below 5% and then deploying that capital into high impact SMMEs and then seeing the returns feeding back in again. That model is such a beautiful model. That's what bitcoin was made for. So we always say like, we think bitcoin was made for us, not for you guys. It's ours. Because when you guys talk about bitcoin, you talk about bitcoin in a way that we don't fully comprehend. We don't understand what your issues are. You guys are number go up, number go down. You're worried about the price. We like, have you forgotten what this thing is? It's immutable, it's decentralized. It gives me power that I've never had before. So if you go back to Africa, I think you go back to what bitcoin was made for. You go back to what bitcoin is supposed to be doing for us. And that's when you get like we have this measuring like a little on our, on our little dashboard that's our real time analytics. We show M Nav and we, you know, we show BTC yield, but there's a number that sits right in the middle which is called Human Healed. So we've back of a matchbook math. But we've shown where if we raise one bitcoin, it results in five African jobs.
- [28:05]
B
Wow.
- [28:05]
A
So every bitcoin raised in our bitcoin treasury results in direct five African jobs. And that's our human yield figure. And that's when. So when we went to Amsterdam last year, we went to bitcoin Mina. We listened to all the bitcoin treasury companies and we're like, guys, where's the humanity? Where's the thing? Why are we building this stuff? Is it just so we can build a hoard and replicate what strategy is doing or get on a leaderboard of amount of bitcoin that we have? That's not what bitcoin was made for. And I think this is the narrative that we've also lost on a macro level, we're losing the narrative. We've forgotten where we've come from. And hopefully companies like abc, Africa Booking Corporation will show the way again. And I think that's what Africa is going to do. So, yes, you will misinterpret us, you will underestimate us. And I think watch what happens over the next 12 to 36 months. I think we're going to demonstrate how do you take pristine money, perfect money, and you have real human yield, real human impact and you change real human lives. That's our drive at abc. That's why Warren and I are doing what we're doing. We're not trying to get, you know, I'm trying to catch up to sailor 700,000 bitcoin. You know, that man's in spaceship, he's in, there's no gravity where he lives anymore. So I think the big question for treasury companies now is not mocking them, not asking, but I think we need to ask the question, what are you doing with your bitcoin? You're just sitting on the balance sheet waiting for it to go up and then what, you're going to build preferreds on top of it and then what? I think there needs to be a deeper story. I think there needs to be a flywheel. There needs to be something that speaks to humanity. And that's what we bringing forward as ABC saying, hey, let's go back to basics again. I think that's why Seifudine, it resonated with him that Jerzy's book actually playing itself out. And it's not because we good or ABC is special. I think it's because Africa, you know, when people come to Africa and we've invited you and I hope you're going to Take us up on that invite. You'll see. This is where like this is the origin of humanity. This is where like you feel the earth when you touch it and you smell it when the rain falls on a dry African soil, when you watch the elephant walk past you, like there's something genetically DNA based where you really connect with it. And I think bitcoin in our place and our, where we come from, that's what we're doing. We're making bitcoin real again. We're talking about human yield before we talk about BTC yield. We're talking about one bitcoin having an impact on a, on an SMME in a transformative way. And then we can talk about BTC yield. That's second.
- [30:35]
B
What a powerful and compelling place to end this conversation. I absolutely love that message. I think it's an important one to hear, especially when everyone's freaking out about the short term price volatility. Because your message really does strike to the heart of why bitcoin is so important for humanity. Really. Stafford, this has been really great. Where do you want to send people for more information?
- [30:55]
A
Well, they can go to Africa. Bitcoin Corporation. We're a typical bitcoin treasury company. You can go take a look at our dashboard. You can take a look at our investment. We publicly trade it. Yeah, we excited. We love what we're doing. We patient and just take a look at what we're saying, take a look at the collateral. And I think what you'll find is Dan, you know, we're more real because we forced to be real. We have to build a business on the basis of a conviction. You can't build a basis on the business on the basis of some innovation or financial instrumentation. And I think we need to go back to basics again. And that's where we want to draw everyone back. Bitcoin is a beautiful thing. It's an incredible thing and we need to build real human stories around it to grab our narrative back.
- [31:35]
B
Back to the basics. ABCs. ABC Africa Bitcoin Corporation, thanks so much.
- [31:39]
A
Thanks, Natalie.
- [31:39]
B
Thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. If you can turn on those notifications and leave us a positive review. They really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up@thenewsblock.substack.com this show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as financial investment advice. And you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach my team at info at talkingbitcoin. Com. I'll see you next time.