For decades we’ve seen nations exercise geopolitical dominance tied to their production and control of fossil fuels – especially oil. But that leverage may be changing. Last year, China installed nearly twenty times the amount of wind and solar as the United States.

In ⁠this essay⁠ in The National Interest, the authors lay out a global political and economic realignment already underway. Petrostates, like those in OPEC, are increasingly at odds with electrostates like China and many in the EU. This isn’t to say that electrostates are not without resource challenges – they’re seriously dependent on mineral supply chains – but the challenges are different, as are the opportunities. When 70% of the world’s population lives in fossil-fuel-importing countries, how are these diverging resource paths shaping the global balances of power?

Guests:

Tatiana Mitrova, Global Fellow, Center on Global Energy Policy, Columbia University

Vijay Vaitheeswaran, Global Energy & Climate Innovation Editor, The Economist

Li Shuo, Director, China Climate Hub at the Asia Society Policy Institute

For show notes, related links, and episode transcript, visit https://climateone.org/podcasts

Highlights:

00:00 – Intro

04:30 – Tatiana Mitrova on petrostates and the idea of electrostates

10:00 – Electrostates are already taking market share from petrostates

13:30 – How Mitrova sees balance of power shifting as world electrifies

17:15 – Vijay Vaitheeswaran on the concept of an electrostate

26:00 – How cheap electricity could allow developing nations to skip over fossil fuels

34:00 – Vaitheeswaran on how U.S. should take on industrial policy in this moment

38:00 – Li Shuo: China’s latest 5-year plan suggests it will double down on clean tech sector

41:00 – China installed nearly twenty times wind and solar as U.S. last year

49:30 – China is on track to become firs

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