Compassion in a T-Shirt: Can We Stop Violence with Compassion?

Guest: Ken McMaster
Host: Dr. Stan Steindl
Date: September 12, 2025

Overview

In this powerful and nuanced episode, Dr. Stan Steindl speaks with Ken McMaster—a veteran social worker, trainer, and founder of HMA (How Might We Act)—about the difficult but vital intersection of compassion and violence prevention. Drawing on over four decades of practice, Ken shares both his professional and personal motivations for working with men who use domestic, family, and sexualized violence. The conversation explores how compassion can facilitate accountability and even transformation, without excusing harmful behaviors, and why shame, trauma, and connection matter in this challenging field.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ken’s Path into Violence Prevention and Intervention

• Professional Genesis: Ken began his career in substance abuse clinics, noticing a high prevalence of abusive behavior among men seeking addiction help ([01:44]).
  • "We were doing behavior change around addiction issues, so why aren't we doing behavior change around abuse of practice or violence?" — Ken ([01:56])
• Pioneering Work: Helped establish community-based interventions for men who sexually abuse children and for adolescents ([03:38]).
• Personal Motivation: Ken’s lived experience with a father struggling with bipolar disorder contributed to his empathy and choice of field ([03:55]).
  • “I guess there’s always some personal motivation... So here I am.” — Ken ([04:30])

2. Bringing Male Violence Into the Open

• Historical Context: The second wave of feminism helped normalize conversations about violence that had long been hidden ([05:17]).
  • "If this was to happen in public, how would we respond? ... We’ve got the same responses that happens when this happens in the private." — Ken ([05:33])
• Not Othering the Perpetrator: Instead of distancing “us” from “them,” Ken emphasizes that the effects of male violence ripple through all men and society ([06:17]).
  • “One man’s violence to one woman is a message to all women, but also impacts all men.” — Ken ([06:32])

3. The Challenge—and Necessity—of Compassion for Those Who Cause Harm

• Practical Compassion: Compassion does not excuse violent behavior but is crucial for engagement and change ([07:56]).
  • "If we come across punitively... we turn people off. We don’t engage." — Ken ([08:17])
• Person’s Story vs. Just Behavior: Influenced by thinkers like Oprah Winfrey and Bruce Perry, Ken advocates for a 'what happened to you?' approach ([08:46]).
  • “At that point we can connect... It's almost at that point you see the resistance kind of just drop away.” — Ken ([09:33])
• Multi-Generational Patterns: Many men have experienced or witnessed violence as children, perpetuating learned behaviors ([09:50]).
• Motivating Change: A strong lever for change is often men’s desire to not repeat negative patterns with their own children ([10:36]).

4. Shame: Danger and Opportunity

• Centrality of Shame: Being confronted with their behavior often triggers deep shame in men ([15:24]).
  • “How do we help men to face shame in a non shaming kind of way?” — Ken ([15:53])
• Shame as Double-Edged: Shame can lead to withdrawal or aggression if not handled compassionately, but can also be a catalyst for change if processed constructively ([16:00]).
• Therapeutic Space: Creating a respectful environment allows men to process shame and take agency for change ([18:31]).

5. Trauma Informed Approaches

• Trauma as a Root: Many men engaging in high-risk violence have histories of trauma ([19:10]).
  • “It doesn’t excuse what you’ve done, but it helps us to understand what you’ve done.” — Ken ([19:27])
• Trauma Patterns: Avoidant behaviors, mistrust, and reactivity are common trauma responses that can perpetuate cycles of violence ([16:45], [20:38]).

6. Responsibility, Not Fault

• Compassionate Accountability: The maxim "It's not my fault, but it is my responsibility" (from CFT) summarizes the approach ([18:37]).
• Behavioral Patterns: Understanding how histories trigger present behaviors helps men take responsibility and intervene in their own patterns ([20:50]).

7. Self-Compassion for Men Who Use Violence

• Working Backwards to Go Forwards: Ken uses exercises that encourage men to reflect on their childhoods and find compassion for their younger selves ([22:49]).
  • “The men need to be compassionate to their younger self yourself also.” — Ken ([23:21])
• Three Flows of Compassion: Emphasized throughout:
  1. Receiving compassion from professionals
  2. Cultivating compassion for partners and children
  3. Developing self-compassion ([25:22])
• Motivation for Change: Many men express a desire not to pass on harmful patterns to their children, providing a vital opening for transformation ([24:45]).

8. Early Intervention and Breaking Patterns

• Adolescent Focus: Early intervention with youth displaying abusive behaviors can prevent entrenched adult patterns ([26:45]).
  • “I’m a firm believer that we need to sort of get in early with our adolescents, young guys and also young women...” — Ken ([27:25])

9. Anger: Emotion vs. Expression

• Understanding Anger: Anger is normal and even useful, but the crucial factor is how it’s managed and expressed ([28:48]).
  • “You don’t need to be angry to be violent... Anger is one of those emotions that is quite primary. It tells us something’s not right.” — Ken ([28:56])
• False Emergencies: Many men misread neutral situations as threats, leading to anger and escalation ([29:18])
• Regulation Over Suppression: Learning to down-regulate in moments of risk is key; social support networks at times of distress are vital ([31:12]).
  • "Who do I go to? Who are my mates? Can they hold me through this process, but also not reinforce... my distress distortions." — Ken ([32:20])

10. The Role of Fathers and Emotional Engagement

• Engaged Fathers Reduce Risk: Children with strong emotional connections to their dads are 48% less likely to use violence as adults ([34:40]).
  • “…if you’ve got engaged dads…they’re going to have more empathy for their children because they’re engaged in their children’s life.” — Ken ([35:27])
• Absentee Fathers and Structural Issues: Emotional development and regulation are skills more likely cultivated through engaged parenthood, not absent or emotionally rigid fathers ([36:14]).

11. Progress, Challenges, and the Future

• Progress: Increased funding, workforce development, public awareness, and interventions are positive developments ([38:45]).
  • “When I started, we ran programs on the smell of an oily rag... The amount of resource that goes into programming now, it is significant.” — Ken ([38:55])
• Definition Expansion: Violence is now recognized as more than physical or sexual—coercion and emotional harm are part of the conversation ([39:35]).
• Plateaued Rates: Base rates of physical violence (~11%) and sexual violence (~2%) have remained largely unchanged for decades, though underreporting remains a significant problem ([40:00]-[41:20]).
  • “What that tells me is by the time you get to policing practice, there’s been a pattern going on for some time.” — Ken ([42:34])
• Shame and Socialization: Social and gendered shame continues to shape boys’ and men’s behaviors, often perpetuated by fathers’ own shame and expectations ([43:10]).

12. Sustaining Professionals in the Field

• The Cost of Compassion Work: Proximity to violence can be emotionally toxic ([46:24]).
  • “There is some toxicity that rubs off... In the sexual violence space, you can have some really intrusive kind of thoughts...” — Ken ([46:39])
• Support and Self-Care: Peer support, conversational spaces, nature, diversity of work, and self-compassion are all critical to prevent burnout ([47:24]).
  • "Do the hard work, but also just have stuff that's replenishing." — Ken ([48:18])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On compassion and accountability:
  • "If we can't find a compassionate link with somebody, then I think maybe that's a challenge because we've got to work at that." — Ken ([50:16])
• On the three flows of compassion (for professionals and clients):
  • "The three flows of compassion... so much of their time is spent really cultivating and maintaining and doing the hard work to keep that compassionate motivation for the men they're working with. But equally, we need to open up to receiving the compassion from those around us, our colleagues, our friends... and then those kind of self-compassionate things, the walking in nature and you know, having diversity and all of those." — Stan ([48:53])
• On violence and connection:
  • "One man’s violence to one woman is a message to all women, but also impacts all men." — Ken ([06:32])
• On shame and transformation:
  • "How do we help men to face shame in a non shaming kind of way? ...The resolution to shame is not to sit in it and wallow in it, but to take agency to do something about it." — Ken ([15:53])
• On the link between engaged fathers and reduced violence:
  • “Children who have strong connection to dads are 48%... less likely to use violence in their adult lives.” — Ken ([34:40])
• On sustaining workers:
  • "Get out in nature, have friends... do the hard work, but also just have, have stuff that's replenishing. I think that's really important." — Ken ([48:18])

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• Ken’s career origins and motivations: [01:44]–[04:30]
• Masculinity, socialization, and 'othering': [05:17]–[06:50]
• Addressing compassion for perpetrators: [07:56]–[12:29]
• Shame and therapeutic work: [14:42]–[18:37]
• Trauma and generational patterns: [19:10]–[21:31]
• Self-compassion in interventions: [22:49]–[25:22]
• Early intervention with youth: [26:45]–[28:21]
• Anger and emotion regulation: [28:48]–[36:14]
• Societal progress and persistent challenges: [38:45]–[44:41]
• Workforce resilience and care: [46:24]–[49:34]
• Closing reflections and core principles: [50:06]–[50:55]

Conclusion

This episode spotlights the difficult yet essential work of responding to violence with both accountability and compassion. Ken McMaster’s experience illustrates that compassionate engagement can open doors to understanding, responsibility, and change—both for those who use violence and for the professionals who support them. The message is clear: violence prevention is neither about excusing behavior nor about punitive alienation, but about fostering the conditions for real change—through understanding, safe connection, and the courage to keep trying, even in the face of slow social progress.