Podcast Summary: “How Compassion Can Save Your Relationship”

Podcast: Compassion in a T-Shirt
Host: Dr. Stan Steindl
Guest: Michelle Becker
Date: November 14, 2025

Episode Overview

In this rich and practical episode, Dr. Stan Steindl talks with therapist and mindful self-compassion teacher Michelle Becker about the transformative role of compassion in intimate relationships. The conversation offers grounded, actionable advice for applying compassion science to everyday relational conflict, drawing on Michelle’s experience as creator of the Compassion for Couples program. Using real-life stories, the three circles model, and memorable dyadic practices, the discussion explores both the rewarding and tricky sides of giving and receiving compassion as partners.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Journey to Compassion in Relationships

• Michelle’s Career Shift: Michelle explains her move from being a CPA to a therapist, motivated by a desire to “make a difference” and a belief that “when our relationships are good, when they're healthy, our world goes much better, not just for us individually, but collectively” (02:02).
• Why Focus on Couples: The realization that relationships are sources of both wounding and healing compelled Michelle to adapt compassion practices for couples, asking herself, “Why not me? Why not take this on?” (03:38)

2. The Ripple Effect of Healthy Relationships

• Dr. Stan reflects on his own life experience:

  “It became very preoccupying... It was never far from my mind. And then as things changed again and moving into a more kind of close and connected and secure relationship, it...frees you up to be a version of yourself in the world...” (03:47–04:38)

• Michelle agrees, noting how “learning how to handle those challenges from a place of compassion just changes everything. It really changes how we're... able to... go out into the world and do your thing.” (05:27)

3. The Three Circles Model in Relationships (06:06–07:20)

• Paul Gilbert’s Model: Michelle integrates the “threat, drive, and care” emotion systems to help couples understand their dynamics.
• Three Targets of Compassion: She clarifies, “We're really talking about sort of three different targets: compassion for myself, compassion for my partner, and also compassion for the relationship, like the relationship is its own entity that needs care and feeding” (06:56)

4. Sequence of Compassion Skills in Couples Work (07:51–12:53)

• Stepwise Approach:
  • Self-Compassion First: Training in mindfulness, common humanity, and kindness.
  • Just Like Me Lens: Using phrases like “just like me, this person doesn’t always put their best foot forward” to enhance empathy.
  • Threat Defense System: Recognizing fight (critic), flight (withdraw), and freeze/placate responses as safety-seeking, not personal attacks.
  • Empathy via Pattern Recognition: “When my partner does something...that I don't like at all...it's not about whether or not they love me...it was simply that my partner was caught in their threat defense system. And that softens the heart.” (11:30)

5. Unhooking and the Reciprocal Nature of Compassion

• Mentalizing: Both partners learning to recognize their emotional states help “unhook” personal interpretation and foster “a reciprocal process” (13:30).
• Quote: “That unhooking from that personalizing really changes everything when we start to see our partners as their own, as just a person who sometimes gets caught in things the way we do.” (12:53)

6. Aha! Moments & Powerful Exercises

[15:17–18:49]

• Treating Friends, Self, and Partners: Michelle describes an exercise where partners compare how they treat themselves, friends, and each other when distressed:

  “Woman after woman after woman...were horrified because they had just discovered how harsh they were on their partners.” (16:40)

  • The men, meanwhile, showed visible relief as their partners recognized and wanted to change harsh habits.

• Insight: This reflects the mindful self-compassion practice of imagining how one would treat a friend versus oneself or one’s partner.

7. Drive System in Relationships: Fixing, Controlling, Criticizing

[20:35–26:30]

• Threat-to-Drive Dynamic: Instead of moving from threat to care, people often default to drive-based fixing, controlling, or (well-intentioned) criticizing.
• Quote: “When we're in the drive system, that's not coming from the care system... Fixing, controlling, and then criticizing is the other one... we don't think we're criticizing. We think we're helping them improve.” (21:14–22:40)
• Both men and women may exhibit drive-based responses, e.g., “fixing,” though cultural gender roles can influence which responses occur.

8. Three Circles and Sexual Intimacy

[27:30–28:52]

• Mismatch in Paths to Connection: Some partners want “care system then intimacy,” others seek “intimacy then care system.”
• Michelle: “Some partners want to go drive into care... the other partner's like, no, I gotta feel connected, and then... intimacy.” (28:00–28:18)

9. Dyadic Practices for Experiencing and Building Compassion

[29:16–36:47]

• Hand Exercise: Couples mirror hand movements to physically experience “withdrawal, pursuit, being left, being pursued,” developing empathy for each other's patterns.

  • Partners report years later using this as “a little signal” to indicate feeling abandoned or disconnected without words.

• Loving Kindness Practices:

  • Couples whisper customized well-wishes to each other, e.g., “may you feel safe,” which can be adapted (touch, tokens, written words).
  • “This is the real making love, you know, because that's what was happening in the room. Love is just flowing, right?” – Chris Germer, quoted by Michelle (32:48)

• Customizing Practices: Not all partners are ready for deep emotional exchange; practices are tailored to comfort levels (e.g., silent wishes, physical tokens, playful gestures).

10. Why Receiving Compassion Can Be Hard

[37:49–44:31]

• Conditioned Responses: Early life experiences can link compassion with pain or threat, leading to difficulty receiving care.
  • Michelle: “If every time I see red, I get hit, then, you know, that wires together...” (38:33)
• Start Small: “We don't start at what we think it should be. We tune into the other person and we start at whatever level they actually can tolerate...” (40:30)
• Communicating Needs: Partners may need different forms of compassion (e.g., touch vs. words vs. practical help), so clear communication is key.

11. Effective Compassion: What Do I Really Need?

[44:31–46:41]

• Michelle: “We tend to offer...what comforts and soothes us, but [our partner] may be wired differently...for me...I want words...my partner...wants touch.” (43:29)
• The skillful question: “What is it that I really need right now? … What is it that will be most helpful for them?” (44:33–45:39)

12. Case Example: Moving from Threat to Care

[47:04–50:26]

• Michelle recalls a couple (Susie & Sam) divided by cancer diagnosis:
  • Sam’s “fix-it” reaction stemmed from overwhelming fear of loss, not lack of caring.
  • When Sam voiced their vulnerability (“I just can't afford to lose her”), Susie felt safe to share her own fears.
  • Sam reassured, “I won’t leave you. I won’t abandon you.” Safety and care were restored; “now we’re a team...neither of them are alone in it anymore. Each of them are holding each other’s fears.” (49:40)

13. Final Reflections and Takeaways

• Dr. Stan: “It takes a lot...to, especially in a moment like that...step forward into that caring motivation and, and be helpful.” (50:26)
• Michelle: “That strength and courage comes from little things over and over and over again...the little practices...build that strength and that courage.” (51:01)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “When our relationships are healthy, our world goes much better, not just our own individual, but also sort of collectively.” — Michelle Becker (02:11)
• “When we understand...these things aren't a reflection of my partner...then just like me comes in. And then I see when my partner does the thing that's unskillful...it's not about whether or not they love me.” — Michelle Becker (11:30)
• “This is the real making love...love is just flowing.” — Chris Germer (quoted by Michelle Becker) (32:48)
• “We need to move into [pain], into the care system, hold it...then when we're content, safe, connected, we can actually look at, okay, what do I want to do about this problem?” — Michelle Becker (23:28)
• “We tend to offer each other...what comforts and soothes us, but they may be wired differently...” — Michelle Becker (43:29)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00-02:21 – Introduction & Michelle’s background
• 02:23-03:47 – Why focus on compassion for couples
• 06:06-07:51 – The Three Circles model and compassion’s three “targets”
• 15:17-18:49 – Aha moment: treating friends, self, and partners
• 20:35-26:30 – Fixing, controlling, and criticizing as drive-based responses
• 29:16-36:47 – Dyadic compassion practices and embodied learning
• 37:49-44:31 – Why receiving compassion is tricky for some people
• 47:04-50:26 – Case study: moving through threat to team care after cancer diagnosis

Episode Tone & Style

The dialogue is gentle, insightful, and deeply validating. Dr. Stan uses self-disclosure and curiosity to draw out Michelle’s wisdom, who responds with empathy, stories, and practical tips. The tone is hopeful, practical, and compassionate throughout.

For Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking relational harmony, therapists, or those wanting to embody compassion in their closest connections. It provides a theory-to-practice roadmap for transforming reactivity and disconnection into empathy, safety, and teamness—even through life’s hardest challenges.