Podcast Summary: Compassion in a T-Shirt

Episode: When Compassion Comes Alive in Groups | Derek Griner
Host: Dr. Stan Steindl
Guest: Dr. Derek Griner, Clinical Professor and Associate Training Director, Brigham Young University
Date: December 19, 2025

Overview

This episode offers an in-depth exploration of Compassion Focused Therapy (CFT) in group settings. Dr. Stan Steindl is joined by Dr. Derek Griner, a leading figure in CFT groups, to illuminate why compassion “comes alive” in group therapy, how group dynamics promote connection, and practical insights for group facilitators. The conversation also delves into themes of safeness, vulnerability, cultural adaptation, facilitator skills, and the powerful, sometimes unexpected, moments that shape group compassion practice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power and Uniqueness of Groups in CFT

• Why Groups?

  • Dr. Griner traces his early fascination with groups to his upbringing in a large family and formative work with psychiatric and family therapy groups (03:08).
  • Quote: “Group seems to be this place where people get together and can be seen fully. They get to tell their story, the parts that they don’t tell very often, and they get an audience who is there to say, okay, I’m listening… But to have one of your peers tell you this, it carries a different weight to it.” – Griner (06:52)
  • Groups offer opportunities for “connection” that individual therapy cannot completely replicate.

• The Three Flows of Compassion in Groups

  • Groups offer a rare chance to practice all three flows: giving compassion to others, receiving compassion from others, and directing compassion toward oneself (08:58).
  • The group context exposes and softens “fears, blocks, and resistances” related to compassion, with habituation and real-time feedback helping reshape self-criticism into self-compassion.

Structure vs. Process in CFT Groups

• Manuals Are Guides—But Connection Is the Goal

  • Dr. Griner, while instrumental in compiling the CFT group workbook, advocates for flexibility over strict adherence to manuals: “If we’re missing, like, if we’re so focused on an activity that we miss the connection, we’re missing the point of group” (12:15, 15:11).
  • Effective facilitators know when “the water is present”—that is, when connection and healing are happening, even if the session departs from the scheduled content (23:41).
  • Metaphor: “You wouldn’t go out in a desert with a map…and the map says water is five miles east and you’re at an oasis…No, you’d stop and drink where you were.” – Paul Gilbert via Griner (23:41)

• Therapist’s Role: Flexibility & Agility

  • Griner and Steindl both highlight the importance of the group leader’s ability to “pivot”—responding to what emerges, not just following a script (19:54).
  • The real skills are knowing the material deeply while remaining present and attuned to process—“having the ‘therapy’ in the back of your mind, ready to deliver, and knowing how to move with the group” (18:13).

“Oasis Moments”: Process-Oriented Interventions

• Vulnerability, Mistakes, and Repair

  • Griner shares a powerful story about mistakenly using a group member’s wrong name and turning it into a moment for compassionate processing:
    • “What was that like for me to call you the wrong name?” (26:49)
    • The group explores self-criticism, courage, boundary-setting, and the three flows—capitalizing on a “10-minute oasis” for authentic connection (28:57).
    • Quote: “A mess up is just an opportunity for connection, if you’re willing to stay with the discomfort.” – Griner (26:49)
    • A member later said, “I’ve never had a therapist apologize to me before,” spotlighting the impact of therapist vulnerability (28:57).

• Therapist Qualities Matter

  • Beyond technical knowledge, traits like warmth, attentive listening, humility, and curiosity are essential:
    • “If you want to manualize disaster, be the expert all the time and never get anything wrong, that’s your rule to live by.” – Griner (35:14)
    • Practicing “compassion-focused living” as a therapist cultivates a natural, genuine presence that participants respond to (35:14).

What Does Compassionate Connection Look Like?

• Clues and Indicators

  • Compassionate connection can be seen in “momentary glances,” body language, and the gradual emergence of trust among group members (39:35).
  • The therapist’s task is to notice and name these moments, inviting further exploration: “What was going on for you when John just said he felt a little bit anxious about coming in here?” (39:35).

• Not All Connection Is Comfortable

  • Sometimes, true connection happens in challenge or rupture, not just agreement.

The Role of Culture and Humility

• Cultural Adaptation in Compassion
  • Griner’s experience in Korea and research on cultural modification taught him that “there’s so much more difference within a group than between” groups (45:53).
  • Quote: “CFT is an approach that allows us to remain curious… my experience is that it works really well because they understand that you’re not going to claim expert on their lived experience.” – Griner (46:14)
  • Cultural humility and curiosity are more useful concepts than “competence”: “The people we're closest to, we may distance ourselves from unknowingly because we assume we know them.” – Griner (50:54)

The Future of CFT in Groups

• Research and Practice Directions
  • Groups are seen as “the ideal setting for compassion focused therapy”—offering real feedback and authentic experience with peers (53:15).
  • Fascination with elements like English tea time, which “brings down the defenses” and deepens connection, suggesting rich opportunities for both research and creative adaptation (55:04).
  • Client diversity should be foregrounded: “We have an awful lot to learn from clients who don't get a voice very often” (55:34).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• “Group seems to be this place where people get together and can be seen fully...and they get an audience who is there to say, okay, I’m listening.” – Griner (06:52)

• “If we’re so focused on an activity that we miss the connection, we’re missing the point of group.” – Griner (15:11)

• “You wouldn’t go out in a desert with a map...if you’re at an oasis, you wouldn’t say, everybody pack up, there’s water five miles east. No, you’d stop and drink where you were.” – Paul Gilbert quoted by Griner (23:41)

• “A mess up is just an opportunity for connection, if you’re willing to stay with the discomfort.” – Griner (26:49)

• “If you want to manualize disaster, be the expert all the time and never get anything wrong, that’s your rule to live by.”—Griner (35:14)

• “A compassionate mind is a curious mind. I genuinely like the people...the longer I get to know them, the more care I feel toward them.” – Griner (35:14)

• “Clues of compassion are in the glances, in noticing each other, in silence, and in unpredictable moments.” – Griner (39:35)

• “There’s so much more difference within a group than between. And I love that CFT allows each person to be an individual.” – Griner (46:14)

Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• 00:00–03:08 – Introduction; Dr. Griner’s background, origins of his group interest.
• 06:24–11:34 – The special role of connection, practicing the three flows of compassion in group therapy.
• 12:15–16:00 – Structure of CFT groups; process vs. manualization.
• 18:13–24:48 – Role and agility of the facilitator; “knowing what water is” metaphor.
• 26:05–31:48 – Transformative moments from therapist mistakes; apology and vulnerability.
• 35:14–39:21 – Therapist characteristics; warmth and curiosity.
• 39:35–44:22 – How to spot compassionate connection in groups.
• 45:16–51:52 – Cultural adaptation, humility, and universal principles across diversity.
• 53:15–56:52 – The future of CFT in groups; tea time as intervention; research and global adaptation.

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a thoughtful, practical, and heartfelt exploration of the unique vitality that groups bring to compassion work. Both Dr. Griner and Dr. Steindl model the humility, courage, honesty, and warmth they extoll—offering a quietly powerful invitation to therapists, facilitators, and anyone interested in how collective spaces can heal.

For listeners or practitioners, this episode offers:

• A lived sense of “compassionate connection” in groups
• Concrete strategies and mindsets for group facilitation
• Deep wisdom on vulnerability, process, and cultural humility
• Inspiration for the future of CFT—in groups, across cultures, and with ever greater humanity