Ben Stiller Returns

Summary

Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend – Episode: Ben Stiller Returns
Release Date: January 27, 2025

Host: Conan O’Brien
Guest: Ben Stiller (presented by Matt Gourley in the transcript)
Production: Team Coco & Earwolf

---

1. Introduction and Casual Banter ([03:47]–[04:45])

The episode opens with light-hearted discussions about personal wins and the dynamics of gift-giving within marriages. Conan humorously probes his guests about their opinions on his jacket, leading to playful exchanges about clothing preferences and surprise gifts.

Notable Quote:

• Conan O’Brien ([04:39]): "I've been married now 22 years. Is that something that happens?"

2. Transition to Guest Introduction ([05:17]–[07:09])

Conan shifts the conversation towards introducing the episode’s guest, Ben Stiller, highlighting his extensive career in acting, filmmaking, and showrunning. He expresses excitement about discussing Stiller's latest work, particularly the Apple TV series "Severance."

Notable Quote:

• Conan O’Brien ([13:52]): "Ben Stiller, welcome. I've contacted you many times through your people."

3. Ben Stiller’s Career and "Severance" ([13:47]–[22:49])

The conversation delves into Ben Stiller's illustrious career, including iconic films like "Meet the Parents," "Zoolander," and "Dodgeball." Stiller discusses his role in "Severance," praising its first season as "perfection" and expressing enthusiasm for the upcoming second season.

Notable Quotes:

• Conan O’Brien ([15:08]): "It's delightful."
• Matt Gourley (Ben Stiller) ([22:49]): "If it bends, it's funny."

Stiller reminisces about his early work, including his time on "Saturday Night Live" and how his impressions, particularly of Tom Cruise, paved the way for his later success. He shares insights into his transition from acting to directing and producing, emphasizing his passion for crafting stories and collaborating with talented individuals.

Notable Quote:

• Matt Gourley ([21:22]): "Justin and I were like, well, Tom is, you know, would like to be in the movie."

4. In-Depth Discussion on "Severance" ([23:46]–[56:31])

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to a deep dive into "Severance," exploring its themes, storytelling techniques, and cinematic qualities. Stiller elaborates on the inspiration behind the series, drawing parallels to personal experiences and societal issues such as work-life balance and identity.

Notable Quotes:

• Conan O’Brien ([53:43]): "The concept is people working at this company, and to go into this company, they descend and they're disassociated from their previous life."
• Matt Gourley ([55:17]): "There's a chip that's inserted into their head, and it gets triggered when they go in the elevator down to work."

They discuss the meticulous planning behind the show's visual style, including the use of corridors and specific lighting to evoke feelings of isolation and detachment. Stiller praises the show's ability to engage audiences on multiple levels, appreciating its layered storytelling and the respect it shows for its viewers' intelligence.

Notable Quote:

• Conan O’Brien ([56:31]): "At the heart of this show is this... Severance is fantastic."

5. Personal Anecdotes and Professional Insights ([56:31]–[62:18])

Stiller shares personal experiences relating to his parents' influence on his career, discussing his father's role on "Seinfeld" and the dynamics of their family life. The conversation highlights the importance of balancing professional ambitions with personal relationships, resonating with Conan on similar challenges in his own life.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Gourley ([61:03]): "I feel like a kinship, seriously, Conan, because I know how hard you work and how much it means to you."
• Conan O’Brien ([62:24]): "I'm really delighted for you."

6. Light-Hearted Stories and Closing Remarks ([62:27]–[75:42])

The episode concludes with amusing anecdotes about merchandise mishaps and memorable moments from past experiences, blending humor with heartfelt appreciation. Conan emphasizes the value of genuine friendships and the joy of creating meaningful work, both professionally and personally.

Notable Quotes:

• Conan O’Brien ([70:07]): "Our merchandise is not worth risking your life for."
• Matt Gourley ([74:30]): "Capital Punishment, right."

7. Final Thoughts and Outro ([75:42]–[77:22])

In the final segment, Conan wraps up the episode with thanks to Ben Stiller and reflections on the importance of creative collaboration. The hosts encourage listeners to engage with the podcast and share their thoughts, ensuring a sense of community among fans.

Notable Quote:

• Conan O’Brien ([75:42]): "Ben, thank you so much. And congrats on Severance."

---

Summary Highlights

• Career Insights: Ben Stiller discusses his transition from acting to directing and producing, highlighting "Severance" as a passion project that reflects his creative evolution.

• "Severance" Exploration: In-depth analysis of the show's themes, visual storytelling, and its impact on audiences, emphasizing its thoughtful construction and engaging narrative.

• Personal Reflections: Conversations about balancing work and personal life, influenced by family dynamics and professional experiences.

• Humorous Anecdotes: Light-hearted stories about merchandise and memorable encounters, showcasing the hosts' camaraderie and playful banter.

Conclusion

This episode of "Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend" offers listeners a comprehensive look into Ben Stiller's multifaceted career and his latest creative endeavor, "Severance." Through engaging dialogue, personal anecdotes, and thoughtful insights, Conan and Stiller explore the complexities of storytelling, the importance of authentic relationships, and the continual pursuit of creative excellence.

Transcript

[Conan O'Brien]

Sona, wouldn't you say that life is full of personal wins?

[Sona Movsesian]

I would, Conan.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thanks, Sona. Whether it's cleaning your house, getting that dream car, or checking off your to do list, winning at life is a great feeling. I'm pretty good at winning at life, aren't I? Sona, are you okay? Keep moving. State Farm helps you win by helping you create an affordable price just for you. Doesn't that sound like a win, Sona?

[Sona Movsesian]

That I like an affordable price just for me.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, you do. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on ratings plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amounts of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. That's my low voice.

[Ben Stiller]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of place that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson Report.

[Matt Gourley]

Hi, my name is Ben Stiller and I feel hmm. About being Conan O'Brien's friend.

[Conan O'Brien]

Wow. Devastating.

[Patricia Arquette]

Fall is here. Hear the yell back to school ring the bell brand new shoes walking loose.

[Matt Gourley]

Climb the fence books and pens I.

[Patricia Arquette]

Can tell that we are gonna be.

[Conan O'Brien]

Friends Yes, I can tell that we are gonna there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Got a nice little podcast humming along here. Got Sonam Obsessian joining us.

[Matt Gourley]

I don't normally say Matt Gorley.

[Patricia Arquette]

That was adorable.

[Conan O'Brien]

Don't you think that's a nice little podcast we got coming along?

[Patricia Arquette]

We got this nice little podcast, Hummingbird.

[Matt Gourley]

We do.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's how I feel about it.

[Patricia Arquette]

Wow.

[Conan O'Brien]

I do. I do feel like we got this nice. Nothing grand, nothing fancy, nothing you could, you know, you put this on the lot, it'll be the last car to go. But it's. I think it's a sweet little ride, you know, I like it. I think it's an adorable little podcast and I'm proud of it. Okay. Yeah.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's cute.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hey, I got a question for you guys. What do you think of my jacket?

[Patricia Arquette]

I like your jacket.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, let me tell you something. Here's the story of this jacket.

[Sona Movsesian]

I said I didn't like it.

[Matt Gourley]

I hate It.

[Conan O'Brien]

I've had people say that before. Not about this jacket, but I've had people be very frank with me.

[Sona Movsesian]

No, you haven't.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Other people, if I'm wearing something, they tell me they don't like it. I saw this jacket. It was not even. Wasn't that much money. I saw it. It's a nice color of brown corduroy. Let me describe it for those of you who can't see right now. It's a very rich.

[Patricia Arquette]

It's got a sheen.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's got a sheen to it.

[Patricia Arquette]

A nap, I believe they call it.

[Conan O'Brien]

What's that?

[Patricia Arquette]

A nap. You can rub it one way and it'll go dark. And then rub it the other way. It'll go light.

[Conan O'Brien]

Wow. Keep talking. I'll take a nap and kablooi.

[Patricia Arquette]

I want to say this. I've never said this before. You're absolutely right about.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, this is a jacket that. It was like the day before Christmas. And I saw this jacket in a store, and I tried it on. I thought, that's a nice jacket. So I just bought it and I drove home and I handed it to my wife and said, just give this to me tomorrow. And she said, okay. She said, should I wrap it? And I went, you don't even have to wrap it. And I thought, is that. Do either of you two relate to that? Is that something that happens? I've been married now 22 years.

[Sona Movsesian]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

Is that what happens?

[Sona Movsesian]

Tak and I send each other exactly what we want, and we don't even take it out of the box that it comes in. Like, I send him the link. Exactly for what?

[Conan O'Brien]

My son did this as a kid. He was really into tech stuff. And he would send us, like, Here are the nine things. This is the XC755G, whatever something board, motherboard. Just click here and it will be delivered. He took all the joy out of just click here.

[Sona Movsesian]

There is joy. You know you're getting something exactly. You know you're getting exactly what you want.

[Conan O'Brien]

So I. I didn't used to do that. But I think it's just because I'm now in a different stage of life where I'll see something. You know, this isn't that much. It's not. I'm not splurging. It's a corduroy jacket. It's perfectly nice. I would like to wear that. Hand it to my wife. She. I think she kept it in the bag. I handed it to her. Yeah, she might have tied it.

[Patricia Arquette]

You can have any surprise no, no, no.

[Conan O'Brien]

I do want some surprise, but how often does a surprise go wrong?

[Sona Movsesian]

All the time.

[Patricia Arquette]

It go, oh, in a gift from your spouse. It can't go that route.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, it can.

[Sona Movsesian]

Unless. Unless she's got diamonds on it. I don't want it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, wow.

[Patricia Arquette]

My wife is giving worth.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hello, Zsa Zsa Gabor, joining us today on the podcast. What kind of awful person are you? This is not the person I hired to be my assistant. Unless it's got diamonds on it. You've famous changed you.

[Sona Movsesian]

No, it has. I'm being. Unless it's like nice jewelry that marks a very special occasion. I think that's what I was trying to say.

[Patricia Arquette]

That's no better.

[Sona Movsesian]

I know. No, it is. But it's like, you know, a 10 year and year anniversary maybe gets me whatever. I don't know. But if it's like clothes.

[Conan O'Brien]

You want to get the clothes yourself.

[Sona Movsesian]

I just know exactly what I want. And I don't think other people, including Tack, really know that. And I think rather than winging it, here's something I wanted, and here it is. Get it for me. And I'm.

[Conan O'Brien]

You think in any way that emasculates t?

[Sona Movsesian]

No, because it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Take away. Are you taking his penis away?

[Sona Movsesian]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

What then you have to get a new penis. Then you know what to ask for.

[Matt Gourley]

If you.

[Sona Movsesian]

If you get your penis from doing that, then you took your penis away.

[Conan O'Brien]

When I bought you this gift. What is it? A penis.

[Patricia Arquette]

I sold my vagina.

[Sona Movsesian]

You don't deserve a. You don't deserve a penis.

[Conan O'Brien]

I my vagina to get you this penis. I sold my penis to buy you a vagina. Oh, Henry's worst story.

[Sona Movsesian]

You get stuff for Amanda and she's like, yay.

[Patricia Arquette]

She does not do that.

[Sona Movsesian]

Okay. I bet you she does.

[Conan O'Brien]

She's a very good actress.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yeah, she is.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, but when you get her her ninth look, it's a chess set made of cork. They only made a few of these in the 30s.

[Sona Movsesian]

What a horrible gift.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, does she go, oh, my God, this is amazing? Or do you ever see a single tear?

[Patricia Arquette]

The one time we got in a fight because I bought her an espresso machine and she thought it was too extravagant and she got mad at me.

[Conan O'Brien]

She got mad at you because you spent too much money.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't tell this on the box.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, it's okay. And you're keeping it in because, you know, that's. That's fine. And you know what? We love your wife, and I take her side. How? But it was really expensive.

[Patricia Arquette]

It wasn't. I mean, as. As espresso machines go, it's a mid level espresso machine.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, but maybe, maybe times were tight. Maybe she knew that we were fine.

[Sona Movsesian]

Does she like espresso?

[Matt Gourley]

Yes.

[Sona Movsesian]

Okay.

[Patricia Arquette]

And she has since come to love that machine. But we got in a fight that day. Cause she was. I can't tell the story.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's okay. It's okay.

[Sona Movsesian]

I have clients like that. I'll be like, what? Where, where do we put it? Do you know what I mean?

[Patricia Arquette]

That was her big issue.

[Sona Movsesian]

She has limited real estate in the kitchen. And it's this machine that you got me. It's like a burden kind of, but. And it also, you know, it's.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know what? I'm gonna say this. If I get anything for the kitchen, I know I'm in very dangerous territory because my wife, My wife runs the kitchen. And if I walk in the door and I'm like, look, it's a giant juicer that only does pineapples and it's made of quartz. You know, we got a problem. We have to take part of the sink out for it to fit. But if you got pineapples, we got pineapple juice, then I know we've got a problem. It runs on gasoline. Old fashioned gasoline that's been badly stored. Yeah, I know. I've done that. I've purchased a few things for the kitchen. And I noticed that she was very pleasant about it at the time. And then it went away. It got exchanged for something else.

[Patricia Arquette]

Our Christmas has slightly decreased. We're now, since we've had a kid too, we kind of are just like three gifts for each other and that's it. And it, you know, one's like little or something.

[Matt Gourley]

What?

[Patricia Arquette]

You know, we don't. We just get three gifts.

[Conan O'Brien]

What is it, the Great Depression?

[Patricia Arquette]

What are you talking about?

[Conan O'Brien]

That's two. No, with three gifts. What?

[Matt Gourley]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

Kids are supposed to be there. Should be endless.

[Patricia Arquette]

No, not for the kid.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, wait, how many kids? What are you talking. How many presents do you get? Kids.

[Conan O'Brien]

Kids have to be flooded with presents. Now, first of all, I'm not saying expensive presents, but I'm sorry. On the holidays, when kids come down, little kids, it has to be so many presents. It's mind boggling. And I don't care. I know people are going to say, well, this is terrible. What if people can't afford it? Steal them if you have to. Kids have to be just spending hours.

[Patricia Arquette]

I agree.

[Conan O'Brien]

The room has to be filled with crumpled paper when The. When the day is over, they had.

[Sona Movsesian]

A lot, but, like, I also.

[Conan O'Brien]

The three apiece. Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

Not for the.

[Matt Gourley]

For each other.

[Patricia Arquette]

From Amanda.

[Conan O'Brien]

Each other.

[Patricia Arquette]

We get each other. We limited our. Well, this is her idea. Look, I'm not a boy. I want to do more. This is awful, but. I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I bet one of them's a walnut. Okay, here's your walnut.

[Patricia Arquette]

I agree. I like to go big for Christmas. I've been tailored back a lot.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, you've been back.

[Sona Movsesian]

I like to just chill. I don't like things. I don't want new purses. I don't want new jackets.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, I know that. Oh, you've been wearing your Dr. Zayas special for like 20 years now. Dr. Zayas, she's got this. This jacket that's got weird. I know, but I mean, for God's sake, I'll pay for it. Get a jacket.

[Sona Movsesian]

I get things. I like them. I use them all the time.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know, but that's too much. I mean, now it's really. Looks like you slept in a bus station or something. For God's sake.

[Sona Movsesian]

Slept in a bus station.

[Conan O'Brien]

I bet you have. The question is with who?

[Sona Movsesian]

By myself.

[Matt Gourley]

By yourself.

[Conan O'Brien]

Eh. So you were just having a. I like trying to still do the sexy leering talk long after the sexy part over. So you weren't just by yourself having a nap, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just wearing a bunky jacket. By yourself. Listen, I. You've wore that jacket too long. We're not going to get stuck on that. But get a new jacket.

[Sona Movsesian]

It's a leather jacket. It's nice and broken in it.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's perfect.

[Sona Movsesian]

You have jackets that you've worn forever, too.

[Conan O'Brien]

More than one jacket.

[Patricia Arquette]

So could I just get you guys to shut up?

[Sona Movsesian]

Believe.

[Conan O'Brien]

I do have jackets I've had for a long time, but I have more than I had. More than one? More than one? More than one. If someone stole your jacket, you're freeze to death. The only jacket you have.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, yeah. In Los Angeles, I don't like purses.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I don't like jackets.

[Sona Movsesian]

In Los Angeles, it gets pretty cold at night.

[Conan O'Brien]

It gets cold at night? Into the 40s, some say. All right, listen, we.

[Sona Movsesian]

I won that one.

[Patricia Arquette]

You guys should do a gift exchange this year. Oh, I'd be so afraid to buy her a gift, she'd get mad at me.

[Sona Movsesian]

I won't like it.

[Patricia Arquette]

Oh, my God.

[Sona Movsesian]

I'll email you exactly what I want.

[Patricia Arquette]

I'm not interested in buying a gift for someone who's forcing me. A gift should be about what another person would think would make you happy.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, what I know.

[Sona Movsesian]

Well, that would make you happy. I'm sending him something I know I want, and when he gives it to me, I'll know I'll like it.

[Patricia Arquette]

But what if it's something you didn't see? Like, I'll go shopping sometime for Amanda Or I'm out and I see.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And you get an espresso machine. The whole thing blows up in your face.

[Matt Gourley]

I know, I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, no, that was. You took a chance. It didn't go well.

[Patricia Arquette]

I am gun shy since then.

[Conan O'Brien]

Exactly.

[Sona Movsesian]

I buy my mom and dad stuff all the time. And my mom has returned 100% of the presents I've given her.

[Conan O'Brien]

I bought your dad a new mustache and he wears it every day.

[Sona Movsesian]

Okay, you know what?

[Conan O'Brien]

It's more real than the one he's wearing.

[Sona Movsesian]

Won't stand for it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Ridiculous.

[Sona Movsesian]

Won't stand for it.

[Patricia Arquette]

What are you going to do about it?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, what are you going to do? What, are you going to storm out?

[Sona Movsesian]

I'm going to stand here, sit here upset about it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, so he won't stand for it. Is.

[Patricia Arquette]

You're literally just going to sit down?

[Sona Movsesian]

I'm going to sit down.

[Conan O'Brien]

All I have to do when I do an impression of her dad is put a finger under my nose. And there he is. There's Gil right there.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's not Gil. Gil's cooler than you are. Gil's so much cooler than you are. You have to have the thing and you have to be cooler and you have to do that.

[Conan O'Brien]

You just did it. You just put the finger under your nose to do your dad.

[Patricia Arquette]

I put this wrap sign up.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right. We're going to wrap it up anyway. Find out from your spouse about presents. And don't buy that espresso machine. It's too expensive. Never wear the same leather jacket for more than 30 years in a row. These are our suggestions. Good night. My guest today is a tremendously accomplished actor, filmmaker and showrunner. You know him from, of course. Meet the Parents, Zoolander and Dodgeball and just. Just the tip of the ice boy right there. He's the director and executive producer of severance on Apple TV. Season two. Premieres January 17th. I am very excited about it because Severance was my jam. Ben Stiller, welcome. I've contacted you many times through your people. Yeah, I often get just. We'll get back to you.

[Matt Gourley]

That's why I have people.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, but what's weird. Can I just say something? What's weird? People sound Suspiciously like Ben. It sounds like Ben picking up. And he says, let me get Ben's people. And then the people sound a lot like you.

[Matt Gourley]

It's like the guy from the Donald Trump who called into the post. Oh, yeah, whatever that guy's name was.

[Patricia Arquette]

David Barron or John Barron.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I've known you a very long time and I was very excited you're coming in today because you're one of my all time favorite comedy people. Your body of work is fucking crazy stunning. We're gonna talk about Severance, which was my favorite show. That first season was perfection. And I am delighted that Severance is coming back. So much so that your people said, I can watch a few episodes. And they said, you can watch a couple of episodes of this new season. We'll make them available to you. And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm rewatching season one to watch season two, and I don't want to watch it on a computer. Yes, I don't want to watch it. I want to watch it because I think the direction, which is you is. I know some other people direct, but you direct. The majority of these episodes is absolutely fantastic. The art design, the acting, the whole thing is through the roof.

[Matt Gourley]

Thanks, man.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's delightful.

[Matt Gourley]

Thank you, Conan. I really appreciate that. Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, no, it means a lot because.

[Matt Gourley]

You know how much I respect you. Seriously.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I.

[Matt Gourley]

No joke.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm. Well, now people think it's a joke because you said no joke.

[Matt Gourley]

I know I said no joke too quickly or something.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Matt Gourley]

I think seriously was the first place. And then no joke is trying to say that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, no, I. We're gonna, we're gonna talk about it because anyone who's listening to this right now, if you're not watching Severance, if you didn't see season one, go and watch it. It is, it's. It's just, I think, flawless. And there's so many images in it, moments in it, and it's got me thinking about so many things. So I'm very psyched for season two. But along those lines, I just wanted to go back to. I'll just touch on it. Met you for the first time. We mentioned this last time, but I think it bears repeating. I met you when you came to SNL and right away was doing one of the funniest things I had seen when you played a grown up Eddie Munster with the whole outfit. But you're jaded now. You had done a Tom Cruise film which was a parody Of Color, of Money. And I looked at that film and I remember thinking, well, why isn't this. This is what Saturday Night Live should be. Which later on, if you look at what Please Don't Destroy and a lot of the shorts from Lonely island, it became more. These short films, which are just, you know, became more and more of the DNA of the show. When you first came along, I was remembered. The first thing I saw you do was that short that you had made, I think yourself self funded or something.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, I made it on my own.

[Conan O'Brien]

Is it before Ben Stiller show?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. No, this was before anything. I was in a play called the House of Blue Leaves off Broadway and the cast, the play was doing really well and it moved to Broadway and John Mahoney was in it and Stockard Channing and Chris Walken and this amazing cast. And I made this short takeoff with these two guys, Steve Klayman and Ralph Howard, and we put. I kind of put all my money into it that I was making from the show. And we made this short and then we were like, okay, let's take it somewhere. And this was. I mean, it's just a proof of how old I am. And we are. Is that not me?

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, not you. I met you when I was four years old.

[Matt Gourley]

I know, I forgot.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm 39 years old.

[Matt Gourley]

But there was nowhere to go. It wasn't. There wasn't, you know, anything to upload it to at that point. So it was like a video cassette. And Lovetts had come to the show. He'd seen the show, and he. And I reached out to him because he came backstage afterwards and he knew my parents and was very nice. And he, you know, and I reached out, I said, hey, I've got this short. Can you. Is there any way you could get them to take a look at it? And he literally, like, met me in the lobby at 30 Rock and took the video cassette upstairs.

[Conan O'Brien]

I remembered watching it. All of us were blown away. Your Tom Cruise impression was fantastic.

[Matt Gourley]

I couldn't believe that they were putting it on the air because there was nobody from the show in it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yep.

[Matt Gourley]

And it was Jim Downey.

[Conan O'Brien]

Jim Downey, great, who's been on this podcast. Amazing head writer. When he saw something that was great, he knew this has to just be on. I find it so interesting that people can go back and look at that Color of Money parody that you did and you should look it up and check it out. But to me, it was saying. It occurred to me today, oh, this was the way to Go. You were ahead of your time, in my opinion.

[Matt Gourley]

I don't know. I was just sort of like. Honestly, I've probably talked to you about this before. That it was for me, trying to do what Albert Brooks, who I think was ahead of his time, for sure.

[Conan O'Brien]

Very much so, yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

In terms of what he did, his first movie, Real Life, which was about reality television and making fun of it and what he had done on the show and watching that when I was younger and wanting to do that kind of thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

When I first saw you, you were doing a spot on Tom Cruise impression. And then you flash forward all these years with Tropic Thunder.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And Tom Cruise plays this executive in Tropic Thunder. And it is. I mean, I've talked to Tom Cruise about it. It is one of the funniest cameos. He comes out of nowhere. And I know that he came to you when you. I don't know if you approached him about playing this character. What's the character's name? Is it Lou?

[Matt Gourley]

Les Grossman.

[Conan O'Brien]

Les Grossman, yeah. He had, like, two. Jewish. Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

I mean, it's never really stated, but it's kind of implied.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's occurred to me now. That's a Jewish name. But he had requests, right? He had two requests. Correct me if I'm. Or you could say he wanted his hands.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. He wanted to have big, thick forearms that were hairy. He wanted to be Jewish.

[Conan O'Brien]

And he wanted to.

[Matt Gourley]

And he wanted to dance.

[Conan O'Brien]

And he wanted to dance.

[Matt Gourley]

And so again, Jewish.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. What's crazy to me is that when he said those things to you, you might have been thinking, oh, what? I don't know. Did you right away say no?

[Matt Gourley]

I was. I mean, it's a strange set of circumstances, the way that this happened. We had done this little short for the MTV Movie Awards, where I played as stuntman. And that's where we. And we had met a couple of times over the years before that. But then we had a great time doing that together and had stayed in touch since then. And I had had this idea for the movie for a long time, and I'd been working on it with Justin Theroux and Etan Cohen came on later and we finally had this script, and I had talked to Tom about it. Originally, I wanted Tom to play my part.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, really?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, yeah. But I was, like, a little bit. I was, like, too. Really too nervous to ask him to do it. Yeah. Because he's Tom Cruise.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sure. Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Like he has other stuff to do.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

And we were friendly and hanging out. He was so nice and just the greatest guy and. But I didn't, like, want to bother him really with this. But I. Eventually I sent him the script and he was like, this is. This is. This is great. I'd love to be a part of this. And I was like, well, maybe you could play. There's like an agent role. He's like, well, no, I've played an agent before. Like Jerry Maguire. He said. But it was his idea, this character. He said, you don't have a studio exec in the movie. Perfect.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

So this was like three months or maybe like two and a half months before we started shooting. And Justin and I were like, well, Tom is, you know, would like to be in the movie. And he had this idea of playing in studio. He's like. And so we went back and came up with Les Grossman and it changed the whole plot of the movie, but made it so much better.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, it's.

[Matt Gourley]

And I think he has a very, you know, an amazing instinct about movies. He's so smart. Like, it's crazy how, you know, he's a really student of movies and he's just. He had this feeling like you need this element to the story. So there's no element of what was happening back in the States the whole time in the Tropic Thunder story. And so we came up with this. And Justin wrote a bunch of those monologues where he just goes off and.

[Conan O'Brien]

But at the end when he starts.

[Matt Gourley]

And then he said he wanted to dance.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, when he starts dancing. First of all, I talked earlier. We started out about your body of work. And it is crazy. There's so many movies that you've directed which have so many moments in them where I go like, okay, that's one of my favorite comedy moments. Zoolander, the Gasoline Station fight.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, God.

[Conan O'Brien]

When they're throwing gasoline on each other and laughing in slow motion is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. It delights me every time I think about it. Also, when you and Owen are trying to hack into a computer and you become more or less apes. So there's all this.

[Matt Gourley]

It's a 2001 kind of reference.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Wow. But I have to tell you something. Cause I was actually for another project. I'm working on this documentary. I was looking through some of this old behind the scenes footage from Zoolander that I have, and. And I found an old. This was literally last week. I found an old cut of the gasoline fight. And I had forgotten that originally. He lights the cigarette and I think the way it is in the movie, I haven't watched it for a while, is like, he lights a cigarette. I go, oh, no. And then, boom, they blow up. But originally it was he lights a cigarette, and I go, oh, no. And you watch the flame kind of like he drops the match on the floor, and you see the flame, like, you know, kind of track under the car and go up, and then it goes up, and it starts engulfing each one of the models. And it literally goes on for. I'm not kidding, for, like, maybe, like, two minutes, where they're just, like, dancing in pain.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. But, you know, it's great. That is. But you know what's great, Ben? That's a masterclass in the difference between this way is funny, this way is not. It's awful, and you can't really explain why. But no, no, when you watch it.

[Matt Gourley]

You see it's awful. And also, this is like, you know, the year 2000. The year 2000, where four real CG effects where we had three stuntmen doused in those. Like the jelly. Where they put the jelly on and actually be. So they're on fire for real doing this. And then the explosion was a real explosion that knocked the windows out of the buildings across the street because it was, like, bigger than our gu thought it was going to be.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Gourley]

It's just, like a different time.

[Conan O'Brien]

But that is a great. Like I say, if you ever teach a class on comedy, which. Which would sell out. Just the idea of. This is the way we showed it in the movie. Yay. Let me show you a way that we didn't go with people crying and screaming.

[Matt Gourley]

If it bends, it's funny.

[Conan O'Brien]

If it bends, yes. No, it's true. Yeah. We had a birthday party here at the office the other day, and they brought out this cake, and there was this really cool, like, flower made of frosting right in the middle of a cake. Someone scooped it out just to eat that flower. I hate that. Yeah. That person, to me, is a villain. A true villain.

[Sona Movsesian]

You should fire them.

[Conan O'Brien]

A monster. If I could. There's no camera. I can. I've looked. Looked for the tape.

[Sona Movsesian]

Gross.

[Conan O'Brien]

Whoever did it must pay. And I want to say person. If I found them and I saw them eating that flower that they cut out of the middle cake, I'd say, how do you sleep at night? Yeah, how do you sleep at night? And you know what? I think I know what they'd say. They'd say, mattress firm. Yeah, that's the problem. They'd turn it into an ad.

[Sona Movsesian]

It's interesting that you would know what they would say, but you have no.

[Conan O'Brien]

Idea what they'd have frosting all over their mouth. And it's a Mattress Firm. Rest easy with mattress firms 120 night sleep trial. Love it or your money back. Hey, I love to hear that.

[Sona Movsesian]

I love being able to give stuff back if I don't like it.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you often do. Every present I've given you over the last couple of years has in the Give Bag bin. Your mattress is important for a good night's sleep, and Mattress Firm has quality mattresses at every price. For your best rest, Mattress Firm offers free and fast delivery to your door. In my day, you had to go to the mattress store and you had to carry it down the highway with your friend Eric. Not anymore. Get matched at Mattress Firm's semiannual sale and clearance and sleep at night. Text CONAN to 766693 for $100 off your next purchase at Mattress Firm. Restrictions apply. C mattressfirm.com or store for details. FedEx doesn't know you're a small business yet. Hey, whatever your business, FedEx knows the last thing you want to worry about is complex shipping. Yeah, you know what I mean. When it's like, wait, which of the nine different categories of shipping is this? Who needs that in their life?

[Sona Movsesian]

I don't.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's why there's FedEx one rate. Sona, did you know that with FedEx onerate you can ship your holiday packets cheaper than the Post Office?

[Sona Movsesian]

I didn't know that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sorry, Post Office. I'm a patriotic American. But FedEx got you beat on this one. Send packages as low as $14.50 for small boxes. It's simple, it's reliable, it's predictable. With FedEx One Rate, you'll know your business's shipping costs ahead of time. That's nice.

[Sona Movsesian]

I love that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Guessing and stressing not included when you use FedEx one rate so you can spend less time on shipping and more time on what really matters. Growing your business. Sona, you gotta get a business and start growing it.

[Sona Movsesian]

Okay?

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Visit fedex.com onerate for details. Exclusion supply valid 10. 6. 24 through 119.25 FedEx 1 rate 2 day retail shipping 1 flat rate. Lot of noise out there. Very hard to create an ad that stands out in today's marketplace.

[Sona Movsesian]

It is.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's 2025. Sona. Wake up. If your B2B marketing strategy for the year doesn't include improving your ad targeting, your ads can get lost in the noise. Have you thought about that?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsesian]

Like what are you doing?

[Conan O'Brien]

Exactly. What are you doing? And B2B means business to business, by the way.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, it's not a little robot. Beep boo.

[Sona Movsesian]

Beepoo.

[Conan O'Brien]

LinkedIn ads can help by ensuring your message makes it to the right audience. This is what you gotta be thinking about. Sona, I know you think about your children all the time. Think about this. LinkedIn ads allow you to build the right relationships, drive results and reach your customers in a respectful environment. You'll have direct access to and build relationships with over a billion members, including 130 million decision makers and 10 million C level executives. Boy, I'd love to be a C level executive. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. They'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com TeamCoco to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com TeamCoco terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be in Tropic Thunder when you're running across the bridge and you. When the kid gets thrown I got on the floor. It's so wrong in every way. It's so wrong in every way.

[Matt Gourley]

Like there's not anything else that's wrong in that movie?

[Conan O'Brien]

No, no. There's so much nothing coming to mind. Nothing comes to mind. But absolutely. So just the body of work, Reality Bites, Cable guy has so much funny in it, you know, and.

[Matt Gourley]

Well, like all, like all those are, you know, collaborations with people. And for me, that, that's always been the thing. It's like I love working with people who are funny and you know, it doesn't just come from me. It's, you know, it's.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I could always tell that because all those years when I was doing the late night show, through all your different stages, you would always show up and want to and say, okay, let's do something. And you would come with ideas and then you would spend a long time making this great idea come to life. Working with other people, working with us. And then you would do this thing and it would be on at, you know, 12:50 at night on NBC. And you either saw it or you didn't. This was before Internet and it was.

[Matt Gourley]

I mean, I mean, it's great.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was just great.

[Matt Gourley]

And I have, for this documentary I've been working on, I've been looking at some of that old stuff and it's just, I mean, I'm like, what was I thinking? Cause it's such a Commitment. And I, I mean, besides just looking at myself 30 years ago or whatever it is, and just like, kind of like my attitude and like coming in with like, hey, I'm gonna be funny and you know what I mean? Or like, I'm gonna like have an attitude with you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

But you were great. You played along and you were always so open to it and you were always like, okay, let's go for it and let's do it. Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was the bl. It was. Now I look back on it and I think, wait a minute, we were doing a 12:30 show and Ben Stiller would come by and work all day on doing a nine minute comedy piece for us, you know, But I was thinking about how did I, how did that happen? Like, that's that. I mean, I did something right in a previous life at some point. Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

But also, you know, I was thinking about it. Cause like, I had to do a talk show next week and I was thinking, okay, what am I gonna do? And. And then I'm like, ah, we'll just, we'll talk and we'll be fine. And I realize I'm just like, I don't have the energy for you at all anymore.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Gourley]

Like, it'll be good. We'll come over.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, I, that's the problem is a late night host now would look at like, oh, no, I saw you. You did Jesus Christ Superstar with Conan. So we thought maybe you could do a thing where you're Godzilla and you're like, nah. Yeah, I just want to come out in a good Tom Ford suit, chat about my work.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, I'm tired. Are you?

[Conan O'Brien]

I heard you were on a documentary about your parents.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, that's.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I wanted to talk about that because I grew up watching your parents, the great Anne Mera, Jerry Stiller. And I remember they were kind of ubiquitous when I was a kid. I thought they were really funny. I'd see them on like Love American Style or there'd be these different. They'd be in ads. And I just knew, oh, these are these really funny people. But I didn't know exactly who they were. And then later on they came on the show in their own right. Of course, your dad was on Seinfeld, very well known that way.

[Matt Gourley]

And yeah, I mean, they had. Yeah, they were a comedy team and.

[Conan O'Brien]

An old school comedy team.

[Matt Gourley]

Old school comedy team from this. You know, they started in the late 50s, early 60s and were two young actors who met and fell in love, got married really quickly, and then became starving actors. In New York and after five or six years, tried to figure out a way that they could make some money. And my dad was the guy who always wanted to be a comedian. Grew up during the Depression, idolized Eddie Cantor, people like that. And my mom wanted to be. Just wanted to be a serious actress. But she was really funny and really talented. And my dad had this idea that they should do an act, so he pulled her into it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Interesting.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And did they do like Sullivan and all those shows they did?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, they did Ed Sullivan. I think it's 30. I always get it wrong. It's like 36 or 37 times.

[Conan O'Brien]

Wow.

[Matt Gourley]

And it kind of, it kind of made their career. Yes. And that's, that's a big.

[Conan O'Brien]

I had a memory. I have a sense memory of them because there was that era where, you know, a comedy team could come into people and talk about like half the country would be watching.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Them do a routine.

[Matt Gourley]

No, I mean it was. Yeah, that's part of the story is that, you know, the pressure that was on them as live performers, which, you know, a pressure, you know, as, you know, doing what you do. It's. But, but for them, not like every time they went out, they had to get re. Invited back by Sullivan and they had to do well. So, you know, that was. And they had to do like five. It wasn't like two minutes, it was like six or seven minutes. You know, it's hard for people to.

[Conan O'Brien]

Know now because there's 75, there's an infinite number of outlets. So there's no such thing as. Well, I, I came on Conan, but I came on one of Conan's late night show a couple years ago and he wasn't pleased. So we're through in the business. Well, no, there's a billion other places to go. There's no such thing as you're through, kid. You displeased me. But this was a different era where if Sullivan didn't like you and there was a problem, that was it. That could be it.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. And luckily he liked them. They did a number of different sketches every time they come out. But then they finally hit on this one sketch where basically they played off the fact my dad was Jewish, my mom was Irish Catholic, and they had these two characters meeting off of a computer, dating. And it was Hershey Horowitz and Mary Elizabeth Doyle.

[Conan O'Brien]

Funny now, still funny.

[Matt Gourley]

And it was controversial at the time because, you know, they didn't know if people would go for it. But Ed Sullivan's wife, he was Catholic, but his wife Was Jewish.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Matt Gourley]

And he loved it. And that was sort of, you know, he kept on inviting them back, and that's. Yeah. But, you know, you're in the documentary because there are so many of these talk show appearances. I'm kind of also looking at it through the lens of. For me, over the years, being asked about them and so many times and really trying to figure out, well, what was it like being their son? Who were they? What's the core of what my experience was with them as parents and stuff? I never really questioned until you start doing something like this and you start looking into it. But we went on with you once, and there was a bit that I was sick and my mom was taking care of me, and my mom and dad came out with me on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so funny. It's so great.

[Conan O'Brien]

Those are. I mean, you know, the.

[Matt Gourley]

And then I have to tell you another thing, too. So I've been working on this thing for, like, four years, and as a documentary develops, you start to. I've never made a documentary before, and what I'm learning is that as it goes along, you start to figure out really what it's about through the process of editing. And then you think it's one thing for like, a year or two, and then you realize, oh, no, I got to have more of this story. Or, you know, how I have to have more. For me, it's been more of, like, oh, personally, like, really, like, getting into, like, what is. What's my experience with them? Because, you know, that's. I'm the one making the movie. And we. We figured out this part of it that I've always felt, which was my dad on Seinfeld was, you know, he was so angry, right? And that was so funny, was to see him blow up and scream and yell.

[Conan O'Brien]

So funny. Shouting, yes.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And I always felt it was because he had all this suppressed inner rage in him that he kind of kept down. You know, he loved my mom. They were like, you know, he was the most loving, generous guy, but he had, like. He had to sublimate a lot. And over the years doing their act together, the sort of. The dynamic between them was that she would kind of like, you know, shut them up a lot. You know, like, jerry, Jerry, stop talking. Stop talking. And I have all these clips, you know, from the 70s of them on all these talk shows doing that. And I thought, you know, when he finally hit it with on Seinfeld, it was because he was Able to let out all of that inner. You know, all of that inner.

[Conan O'Brien]

Makes sense. Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

And I was trying to find a sound bite to sort of, you know, explain that, where he talked about it, and. And I couldn't find one. And I was driving home. This was, like, literally, like a month ago. I'm driving home, and I put on, you know, your Sirius XM station. And it's literally. It's a clip of my dad on the show. On your show. And you're asking him about, you know, Costanza and why is he so funny. And my dad said this was like, literally. He says, as I turn it on, he says it's because I had all this inner rage.

[Conan O'Brien]

Jesus.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. And I literally, like, pulled the car over and, like, you know, texted my editor and. Yeah, isn't that insane?

[Conan O'Brien]

That's fantastic.

[Matt Gourley]

And we. And we pulled the clip out, and it's in the movie along with the other thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I don't give you permission to use it.

[Matt Gourley]

That's actually why I'm here.

[Patricia Arquette]

And I'm editing this part out of the podcast.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let's come up with a number, gang.

[Matt Gourley]

I need a cone.

[Conan O'Brien]

That is. That is.

[Matt Gourley]

Honestly, I felt like it was my dad and the ether or something. Just like this moment was happening.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, first of all, I love that. I love that. And I do think that it was so nice that your dad got to have that role. And then he's in King of Queens after that. And so he has this whole.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, it changed his.

[Conan O'Brien]

And there's a whole generation that knows him from that stuff. Do you know what I mean? Which is sweet.

[Matt Gourley]

He always wanted that. He had so much success with my mom. But then there was a period of time after when being a comedy teacher team was not something that was as viable in show business as you go into the 80s and the 90s. It's not like there's shows that are like the Merv Griffin show or the Ed Sullivan Show. It's just. So they were having to figure out their careers separately. And then Seinfeld happened for him in his 70s, and it changed. It just fulfilled everything that he had wanted. And my mom wasn't as important to her. Cause she was, I think, happier to kind of stay at home and write and read biographies, do the Sunday Times crossword puzzle and. But my dad, that's what was. It was, you know, if he was so connected to the audience, to being recognized. It meant so much to him. Yes, yes. Because he was so deprived as a kid. He. His parents. He had such a tough Child. His dad was a cab driver. You know, they lived, they moved 13 different times when he was a kid over the course of a few years. And, you know, so he. He was just like, both loving and needy, but like, in the. In the most generous way. And, you know, they would, like, someone come up to him on the street and, you know, recognize him. He'd be with my mom and he'd talk to them for like 15 minutes. And my mom would be like, jerry, let's get the fuck out of here. Come on.

[Conan O'Brien]

This guy knows me. Exactly. I'll do a dance for you. Whatever you want. Boy, do I relate to that.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, I didn't get any of that. By the way.

[Conan O'Brien]

It'S funny. Cause I know you did early on. You were a musician. Drummer.

[Matt Gourley]

Well, just sort of super early on.

[Conan O'Brien]

But did you ever think that was gonna be it or did you always know?

[Matt Gourley]

No, I was not a great drummer. I was just.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was a terrible drummer. I know. You were in a band called Capital Punishment.

[Matt Gourley]

Capital Punishment, right.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was in a band called the Bad Clams and I was a drummer. And then I told them, I'm out. I don't have time for this. I've got other things. And I remember thinking, good luck without me. And they replaced me with a drum machine.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh.

[Conan O'Brien]

And it sound like a little.

[Patricia Arquette]

Can we do that on this podcast?

[Conan O'Brien]

And people were. Were just like, whatever, it's. It's better. It's keeping time correctly. But yeah, that was just a. That was a. That was a moment for you.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, it was. I had a friend in high school who was the band leader, and he was really talented. We're still friends. Chris Roebling and. But I, I was not a great drummer. I really wasn't great at keeping time. What is that documentary about? Ginger Baker.

[Conan O'Brien]

Ginger Baker? Yeah, that one from Cream.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, there's a great documentary about him. And he's like, so, like, hard ass in terms of like, you gotta like, either you have time or you don't have time.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh. And in that documentary, they're saying things like, you mean like a great drummer? Like, you know Keith Moon from the who? And he goes, no, I'm talking about real drum. I mean, people are mentioning icons to him or John Bonham from let's. And he's like, no, I mean a real. I mean, this guy who thinks of like maybe three people in the universe are real drummers and everyone else is just shite.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

You have just. In addition to all these movies you're directing and you had all this Crazy success as an actor. And then you've sort of made a conscious decision to step back a little from that, I'd say in the last five, seven years and say, okay, what I really want to do is craft things, direct, produce. That was a conscious decision.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, it was a moment that kind of hit me. I've always. I always loved directing since I was a kid, so like that. And then, you know, I was directing a lot of these movies I was in over the years, but I never had. Except for Cable Guy, I had never directed anything that I wasn't in. But I always thought of myself more as a director than an actor, really. I felt like that was more where I was. I thought I was better at that. Definitely not a live performer. For my short time on snl, it was so nerve wracking for me to be. It's still anytime doing something live. It's like, you know, I don't enjoy it. I'm happy when it's over and if it goes well, it's great. But so directing to me was always like a comfort area and. And just happy, you know, it just made me happy. And so it was really after Zoolander 2 came out, that was like sort of the inflection point where it's like the movie didn't do well. It was not well received. And it was this moment in time where I was like, ah, man, what am I gonna do? What do I wanna do next? And I had some space just to kind of think about it and. And then this project that I'd been developing kind of right when the movie came out, Escape at Dannemora, this limited series about this prison escape in New York that happened in 2015, I think that was there. And I had the time to work on it because I wasn't doing other stuff.

[Conan O'Brien]

First of all, Escape of Dannemura, I love that. And I loved. To me, it's about you get to craft something, you get to take some time. I know how much telling a story visually is important to you, and so you get time to let's get this exactly the way we want it. And I always think the plus and minus of doing things that are live or done quickly is we'll grab it. It may not go our way. Sometimes when it goes well, you get the rush. When it goes badly, it's over and it's time to do another one. But if you get to really craft something, it's a very different feeling. I would guess over a long period of time, you get to think about what is this Gonna look like, how am I gonna tell this story?

[Matt Gourley]

Right. Which is daunting, too, you know, because it's like, all right, how do I do this? But it's also, to me, it's like sort of the most subjective thing where you just go, okay, you know, how do I see this? How would I wanna see this? I think when I just got to the idea of, like, basically, like, what would I wanna see? Cause I do love comedy, and I've loved comedies growing up. Up. But I also really love just dramatic movies.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sure.

[Matt Gourley]

So I just started thinking, like, well, what would I want to see? And with Escape at Dan, I was like, yeah, I would love to see this if it was a movie, limited series, whatever. And the vibe and the feeling, I think, for me was so much like, it was so clear. And. Yeah. Then you just take the time and work again collaboratively with people who you think are really talented. And you have a similar sensibility. And, you know, you have these partners. You're a cinematographer, production designer, costume designer. Dannemora was Michael Tolkien and Brett Johnson, these two great writers. And, you know, the truth of what happened in that story was, to me, was sort of like what I was, like, most interested in, because it scared me, too, because I'd never done a prison escape movie. And it was like, all right, well, I have no idea how to, like, how do I do this and make it real? How do I make it feel authentic? And so I just went to the real facts, and the more I learned about what actually happened and got to the real places, I just said, all right, I'm just gonna go for the real thing. Because that was what was fascinating to me about that story, was that how could a prison escape like this happen in 2015? That feels like something out of, like, Escape from Alcatraz or something. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

You don't think it's possible anymore?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. And then you realize, oh, there's, like, the system that's in place at this old prison, and there's so many places where things can go wrong. And also the hierarchy of how it works there in terms of. With the guards and the prisoners and, I mean, the dynamics in a prison. It's a huge prison, too, so it's like its own little city or something. And so the more I talked to real people who experienced it and got the details, that was really fun for me. And then. And cinematically, yeah, it's fun to, like, figure out how to do something that, you know, hopefully look cool and be intriguing.

[Conan O'Brien]

Did you ever consider being imprisoned for several Years. Do you really. I mean, if you really. I'm sorry. If you really. If he really wants to capture the story, I think you should have. If you took it seriously, I think you would have done three years in prison years, if you want. You know what I mean?

[Sona Movsesian]

Not like, I thought you did a.

[Conan O'Brien]

Fantastic job, but think about what you could have done if you had been in prison.

[Matt Gourley]

If I'd actually experienced it.

[Patricia Arquette]

Would you ever consider going to prison for three years?

[Conan O'Brien]

I would like to be put in prison. Many of our listeners want me in prison right now. Well, this. This leads me nicely to Severance, because I'm lucky enough to be friendly friends with and encounter people all the time, especially in the comedy world and acting world. And so I kind of semi know Adam Scott and my wife and I watch Severance when it comes out. And I. Shortly after that, I see Adam Scott and I said, that was the best thing that's been on television in. In memory. That was fantastic. And he was like, oh, you know, thanks a lot, man. And I was like, no, no, no. And I, like, I think I put my hand on his chest, like, no, no, no. Jesus, you don't understand. Like, I know there's a show business thing. Well, I want to. He's. Have you felt his chest? Adam Scott's chest?

[Sona Movsesian]

I have not.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, you haven't lived then. No, but my. You know, the way there's a show business thing of, hey, man, I saw your thing. It was really good. And it's. It's. You'll say it about me at some point, but.

[Sona Movsesian]

Gosh, that's so sad.

[Conan O'Brien]

But it'll come out naturally. Or we'll edit it in and I'll touch your chest. But I. It was very important to me to let him know. No, no, no, no. I'm not doing that thing right. I'm doing this other thing where. And he was, you know, appreciative, I think, and then just wanted to get away. But. But the quality of the storytelling, the intricacy of it, the respect, the respect it has for the audience, it's so smart and there's so many layers to it that there's. What. I mean, I've gone into deep dives where people discuss just various levels of it, and it all holds up because when you put that much thought into something, it's really beautiful when people appreciate it and see it and start to go like, oh, wait a minute, what do you think's going on? And the whole concept of severance is fantastic.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, that's great to Hear in that the trust you can have for the audience, which you have to, to sort of like take a sort of runner on and kind of, you know, just go, okay, I'm gonna believe that they're gonna get this. But you know, you never go bad when you don't underestimate the audience. You know what I mean? Cause people are smart and especially now, people watch television so closely and they appreciate it so much and they look forward to it. So that's a great thing to know that people will pick up these little things. But we made the show in a bubble during COVID with no, you know, no, you know, you make the whole series and then you put it out so there's no feedback.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you don't know. You've basically built this giant contraption and you put it out there and you don't know is it going to work?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

What if people watch the first episode and say, I don't care.

[Matt Gourley]

Right? It's not like the opposite of doing like a late night show or something where, right. You're getting feedback every day, every second. And so it was one of the. A great experience making it it. And then near the end I was like, oh, I, wow. I hope people, I hope people get it. I hope they like it. This is. We've been working on this thing for a couple years. Like this could be either good or it could just be like, oh, you know, maybe nobody's gonna even see it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, the reaction was.

[Matt Gourley]

It was great.

[Conan O'Brien]

Insane.

[Matt Gourley]

It was great. It's as great as anything I've been a part of. And you know, and you know, being in the business so long, like you never know how people are gonna react to stuff. And when it's great, it's so great and when it's not great, it sucks. But you're. And, but it's not that different. The experience of whatever you make, you know, something that gets well received or not, it's. You're still putting your all into it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I've always said it takes a lot of talented people working really hard to make something shitty. Meaning when you see something and we. Everyone sits around and hate watches it or says this is bad, that was a lot of often times very talented people working really hard and it just didn't come out quite the way they want it to, or it came out at the wrong time or whatever it is, whatever it was. And then those same people can work on something and it can be absolutely.

[Matt Gourley]

Amazing and you're all in on it the whole time. So you can't go back. And it's just sort of like, okay, so this is it.

[Conan O'Brien]

There are these moments I talked to you earlier about. There are always these moments in your work where I remember them. They're really fantastic. There was a moment. There's so many moments in the first season of Severance that were, first of all, the look of it. And there are moments where I think you as a director, the use of corridors and ceilings. Like, when I watch this show, I feel like I'm down underground and I'm in that place. And it's a very specific. The lighting, the look of it, the vibe. You've got these great, wide, like, flat shots sometimes. And it does feel a little bit like a Kubrick or something. It's just like all the references are absolutely incredible. And Behr's rewatching, like, you can rewatch it over and over and over again. It's really hypnotic. But there's a moment with the actor he plays, Lance. Is it Trammell Tillman?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

There's a moment, I'm not giving anything away, where he goes into a dance in the first season. And it's my favorite moment in television of that year because it's not part of his character. But then he goes into this kind of dance and the way you shoot it. And I think I've watched it, like, 20 times. I don't know this gentleman. Please tell him I'm his biggest fan. But that was my favorite moment. It was so. It came at me in such a weird way from the side, you know what I mean? It came through on my peripheral vision, and it was so fantastic. And the way it was scored, the music and the tension building while he's doing this kind of. What's supposed to be a joyous thing. It was. It's sort of David Lynch. It's everything. It's like 15 different flavors.

[Matt Gourley]

It was a confluence of events that came together. I didn't even know he was gonna dance like that.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's dancing. Dancing is fantastic.

[Matt Gourley]

It's the same thing. Tom Cruise dancing, like. I didn't know Tom Cruise was gonna dance like that.

[Patricia Arquette]

Did this guy have in his contract, though?

[Matt Gourley]

No, but, you know, that was also. Yeah. One of those things where it was just like. I felt the same way watching it. I was like, oh, this is so cool. And I love watching this. I could watch it over and over again. And I think as a director, you kind of not to. It's not like you want to, like, say, oh, my work is great. It's like, you as you're almost like an audience, you have to act as an audience, and you're the sort of, like, you have to make the choices based on being an audience that you're projecting would be watching something. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

So I was. I love it, too. I was like, I love watching. I was like, oh, this is really fun. I could watch this all day.

[Conan O'Brien]

At the heart of this show is this. And again, this isn't giving anything away, because anyone who's listening to this and you need to watch this show, but you also, if you haven't seen the first season, watch that. And the concept is people working at this company, and to go into this company, they descend and they're disassociated from their previous life. So their work life and the person who's up above ground, they're the same person.

[Matt Gourley]

But, yeah, there's just a chip that's inserted into their head, and it gets triggered when they go in the elevator down to work, that they don't remember who they are upstairs, and they just know their reality at work. And then when they leave, the chip gets triggered again, and they don't remember what happened to work.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you see, there's a subtle thing you do with the lens when you're going. When Adam Scott's going down the. When the. The elevator. And, you know, I don't know what it is. I. I don't technically understand it, but something happens where you can see the. The focal point kind of change just a little bit, enough to know that they've gone through a transformation. So there. Everyone's severed from what's happening to them at the top of the world. And there are so many analogies to that, which is, why would these people choose to do that? And one of the things. And I might be fishing here, but it very much felt to me like, oh, this is like alcohol or drugs. People that something happened in their life, they want to disassociate from it. And anyone who's had issues with drugs or alcohol knows that there's a reason you're doing that. You want to be somebody else, because being who you are and feeling, that's too painful. And it's just really. I mean, there's like 35 different scholars could talk about all the different things that are brought up in one way or another in severance.

[Matt Gourley]

And it's all Dan Erickson, the creator, the writer. It was the first script that he had produced. It was a spec script he'd sent around. And Jackie Cohn at our company redhour, Read it and thought it was good, and I read it.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a spec script.

[Matt Gourley]

That was a spec script. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's crazy.

[Matt Gourley]

It's good to know, right? For aspiring writers. And he had this amazing idea and this amazing facility in terms of how, you know, the tone of what. Of his writing. But I agree with you. There's that analogy, you know, just the idea for me also of these people are, like, coming into work and doing their thing and having their banter and kind of, you know, it's very like, kind of, you know, like an office comedy kind of vibe. But they don't know who they are, they don't know why they're there, and they don't know what they're doing. To me, that's like the life analogy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Like, you know, that's where we're all here, you know, and we get settled in and we figure out how to get through and do it. But, like, we don't ultimately know what it's all about. So I thought that was what was always resonating.

[Conan O'Brien]

And the work they're doing is so. I mean, it's really funny what they're. The work they're doing on their computer screens is hilariously. I mean, it is analogous to how a lot of people feel about their jobs. You know, I'm here moving these numbers around, kind of widgets and widgets, and it doesn't make sense. When I watch it, it doesn't make sense. But when someone does it, they're like, good for you. You did it. And I think many people, many Americans watching, would say, that's what it feels like at work.

[Patricia Arquette]

My daughter was role playing, going to work the other day. I said, what do you do for work? And she goes, I push buttons.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Yeah, she's gonna go, follow.

[Matt Gourley]

Dan worked at a door factory when he came out to la, and that was where he got the idea because he was just going crazy every day working at this door factory, and he wanted to forget about it.

[Conan O'Brien]

So he wrote. I mean, to me, it's also. It is a great message for people that there are a lot of people that say, oh, it's all who you know. It's like, no. If you have a really good story to tell and a great idea and you write it, the cream does. The truth does out. The cream does rise to the top. If you put something out there that's of real quality, it's gonna bounce around and someone like you is gonna find it.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. I mean, it's hard. It's hard to get the access for people, you know, to get that script in someone's hands. But I feel like in this business, everybody's always looking for that. Next thing you know, always looking for talent, looking for something that they're gonna read and is gonna excite them and feel, you know, feel new and different, and that's just always gonna be.

[Conan O'Brien]

Also, this cast you have, I mean, I mentioned Adam Scott and Brit Lauer is amazing and incredible in it, but also you've got John Turturro, you've got Christopher Walken. I mean, you've got. There's something really fascinating about this show, which is that people, naturally, when they work together, want to create community. And there's something happening here at Lumen where they kind of really don't want people talking. They don't want people getting too close to each other. And that's another mystery. And I know. I think the reward of a show like this is that you get really smart fans online, and there are so many of them that are all arguing about, what does this mean? And Eduardo, when I came in, Eduardo was. No, Eduardo, you said you.

[Patricia Arquette]

I said, don't fuck this up.

[Conan O'Brien]

Don't fuck this up. This is severance, man. Don't fuck this up. And I'm like, well, Ben Stiller has been around a long time, and we could shoot the shit about a lot of things. And I do intend to spend half the time talking about severance like, you don't fuck it up.

[Matt Gourley]

By the way, Eduardo, I totally get it. I know Conan a lot.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's seen me fuck up a lot of stuff. But I read an interview with Patricia Arquette, who's amazing in the show, and she has this quote about you as a director. It was just about your tenacity, how hard you work, how important it is to you that you get it. That you get it. Right. It was just. It was really lovely.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Well, she's amazing. I mean. Yeah, you know, I think we're all going through life and trying. I feel like a kinship, Seriously, Conan, because I know how hard you work and how much it means to you, but you're also trying to figure out the work life balance, which is part of the show, too, and that's important, too. And I hope over the years, over the, I don't know, last, whatever, you know, 20, 30 years, that, like, I've figured out that a little bit more. Because you have to. There's a point where you work, work it and work and work it, but then you also have to like, also then be able to step back and go, okay, I can only control so much.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I haven't gotten to that point yet, but I've heard tell you can only control so much.

[Matt Gourley]

Learned the hard way, you know?

[Conan O'Brien]

Well. But I will say on a personal note, like, when you walk in the door, you seem happy.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I know that you're someone who. One of the. Maybe the subtitles of this podcast could be. Sometimes I want it to be, be careful who you envy. Like, I want to talk to people and let everyone know everyone's got shit. Everyone has got things that they're dealing with. And predominantly, I get to talk to people like yourself who are very talented and have done this amazing work, and you're trying to figure out most of the things that everyone else is trying to figure out. So when you walked in after all these years to see that, you look great, you seem happy. This is incredible work you're doing. And I love that you're able to say to yourself, yeah, I can go back and be in something again. I think you're gonna go back and maybe do a cameo in.

[Matt Gourley]

I'm doing Happy Gilmore.

[Conan O'Brien]

Happy Gilmore.

[Matt Gourley]

I've got this little movie and I did with David Gordon Green called Nutcrackers that's on Hulu, and that we did, like, super low budget and was really fun. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, but, like, you can dip into that when you want, but you can enjoy this and also enjoy your life. Life.

[Matt Gourley]

Yes. Well, that's. That's the big part of it. Enjoying your life. I mean, and that's.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's. And you and I are talking about it as if we don't know what that is.

[Matt Gourley]

I know exactly.

[Conan O'Brien]

We've heard tell of this life thing. My agent tells me my children are thriving.

[Patricia Arquette]

You guys are severed.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, we are severed. We don't know what's happening. I don't. I think I'm told I have kids. I have to go up in the elevator.

[Matt Gourley]

No, you know, no, it's. You know, I have my. Your kids are older, too. I mean, my daughter's 22. My son's 19. And they will tell you. They'll give you feedback.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

On how you're doing, you know, and I appreciate it. And we've actually, like, working on the documentary. I interviewed both my kids and Christine, and, you know, we talked about stuff that's worked in our lives and stuff that hasn't worked in our lives. And my kids were very honest with me, you know, about times when my work was. I put My work in front of the family.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

And I'm very grateful that I'm at a place now where I still, like, have these relationships with them that we can work on and talk about that stuff and, you know, and adjust. Because. Because it's true. You know, it's cliche, but it's true. But, like, at the end of the day, that's what it's all really about. My joy comes from working and being creative. Being creative, but sharing that with my family. And, like, if you like going home and not having anybody to share that with. With. I've had that because Christine and I were separated for a few years.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's right.

[Matt Gourley]

And, you know, there's.

[Conan O'Brien]

You.

[Matt Gourley]

It can. If it's. If that's the right thing for people, sometimes that's the right thing. But, you know, for me, having. Being together with her and our family being together, I. I'm so much more appreciative of it. So I feel really grateful.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I am delighted for you. I'm really delighted.

[Matt Gourley]

I figured it all out. I have no problems. And.

[Conan O'Brien]

Why are you crying? You're crying as you say it, and it's tears of blood. Just fucking weird. I just figured it all out, Ben. Just absolute joy to see you again. And you, too, man. I'm so. I'm so delighted for you. I really am, genuinely. And I have a very. Just nice, funny little memory of. I lived on predominantly on the Upper west side for years. All those years I was doing Late Night, and for some reason, I would always run into your mom on the Upper west side, and she was so lovely to me and such a real person on the Upper west side, you know, Such an Upper west side and.

[Matt Gourley]

A fan of yours. She loves you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, she was absolutely. You know, we Catholics have to stick up for each other, by the way.

[Matt Gourley]

I just have to say, also, there is one scene at the end of the last episode of season two of Severance that I'm really looking forward to you seeing.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, I'll.

[Matt Gourley]

Because I feel like you of all people.

[Conan O'Brien]

I will text you.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, no, we'll appreciate this little scene.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Okay.

[Matt Gourley]

And it might even seem to others who watch it maybe weird or indulgent, but I feel like it's, like, made for you.

[Conan O'Brien]

If it's weird and indulgent. If it. If it's weird and indulgent, I'm going to love it.

[Matt Gourley]

All right, good.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's.

[Patricia Arquette]

That's what you are.

[Conan O'Brien]

Weird and indulgent. Okay. I think I spelled it out enough. Yeah. Hey, Ben, thank you so much. And congrats on severance.

[Matt Gourley]

Great to see you. Thanks, man.

[Eduardo]

Do you own a business that's ready to Thrive? Let Intuit QuickBooks take things like unpaid invoices and tracking expenses off your plate to take things to the next level. Intuit QuickBooks is an all in one business platform that can help with day to day tasks like invoicing and expenses. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks, your way to money. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc. Licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of financial services.

[Conan O'Brien]

FedEx doesn't know you're a small business yet. Hey, whatever your business, FedEx knows the last thing you want to worry about is complex shipping. Yeah, you know what I mean. When it's like, wait, which of the nine different categories of shipping is this? Who needs that in their life?

[Sona Movsesian]

I don't.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's why there's FedEx One Rate. Sona, did you know that with FedEx One Rate you can ship your holiday packets cheaper than the Post Office?

[Sona Movsesian]

I didn't know that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sorry, Post Office. I'm a patriotic American. But FedEx got you beat on this one. Send packages as low as $14.50 for small boxes. It's simple, it's reliable, it's predictable. With FedEx one rate, you'll know your business's shipping costs ahead of time. That's nice.

[Sona Movsesian]

I love that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Guessing and stressing not included when you use FedEx One Rate. So you can spend less time on shipping and more time on what really matters. Growing your business. Sona, you gotta get a business and start growing it. Okay? Okay. Visit fedex.com onerate for details. Exclusions apply. Valid 10624 through 11925. FedEx one rate. Two day retail shipping one flat rate. Save the date. Prepare for chaos. Get ready for your cordially invited a hilarious new movie starring comedy icons Will Ferrell and Reese Witherspoon together on screen for the first time. I cannot believe they haven't done a movie together.

[Sona Movsesian]

Me neither. I love them both.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hey, listen to this. It's written and directed by Nicholas Stoller of Forgetting Sarah Marshall and Neighbors. Find out what happens when two weddings are accidentally booked on the weekend at the same remote venue. That sounds like trouble.

[Sona Movsesian]

Uh oh.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Is that what you do when you hear trouble? Uh oh. In a laugh out loud battle of determination and grit, the father of the bride, played of course by Will Ferris and sister of the other bride, played by Reese Witherspoon. Chaotically. Go head to head. And we'll stop at nothing to pull off an unforgettable celebration for the ones they love. I like the premise.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's nice. It sounds wacky.

[Conan O'Brien]

And if you think you've been to weddings where crazy things happen, prepare for alligator attacks. Sabotage. Shipwrecks. Cornhole. All star comedy cameos. Will the couples make it down the aisle? Will fire regulations be violated? Find in this perfect blend of hijinks and heartstrings. They still say hijinks.

[Sona Movsesian]

I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Incredible. It's time to RSVP for Ferrell vs. Witherspoon in the new wedding comedy. You're cordially invited. Watch it. January 30th, only on Prime Video.

[Patricia Arquette]

Okay, we found that something very interesting happened with a fan of yours and more specifically, some merchandise from this podcast. And this comes from Instagram. We're gonna take a listen to it or watch it if you're watching this on YouTube.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, let's take a look.

[G]

I fought a burglar for wearing my Conan O'Brien needs a friend T shirt. There was a man in my house, and I told him, you know, this is my house. Get out. Then I saw he was wearing my Conan O'Brien T shirt. I ordered him to take it off. He did not. And so I did a stupid thing and I went up to him, I pushed him a little bit and yanked the shirt right off of him. You might be thinking, yeah, that is stupid. Why would you react that way? It's just a shirt. And I think it's partially because what that shirt represented to me at that time. All the comedians I had watched, I told them, they. They saved me. When I saw him wearing a shirt that represented why I like living. I love laughing. I love kombi. I love all of that. All the friends that I've made. I snap.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, my God.

[G]

Happiest day of my life. I did meet him. Best day of 2024. He still doesn't know the story because he just signed my shirt, took this picture, and left. It was like, midnight.

[Patricia Arquette]

So this comes to us from an Instagram user named True Travels of Hope. My first thought is that, were you the burglar just trying to get the shirt off?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. I do try to reuse merchandise as much as possible because we know where our merchandise is sent, and so I try to go there. So I'm often in my downtime, patrolling the Midwest, the Southern states, the Southwest, and the Pacific Northwest, looking for people wearing Conan Merchant. And I just try to reclaim it as best I can. So we can sell it a second time.

[Patricia Arquette]

That's what it was.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I do sometimes take other stuff while I'm in the houses.

[Patricia Arquette]

Might as well. I noticed because she's wearing one of those shirts for the podcast that say, I feel blank about being Conan O'Brien's friend. And there's a spot where you can literally fill it in with a marker. And she has not done that.

[Conan O'Brien]

No. She's still not sure how she feels. Feels. Well, what do we think of this story?

[Sona Movsesian]

First of all, I really wish she wouldn't have confronted this robber.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. I'm going to say that too, I think. And I want to say this to all my fans. If someone. And first of all, let me start by saying to this woman, True travels of Hope. I want to say to true travels of hope that I very much appreciate that you're a loyal fan and that our nonsense has meant something to you. And so this comes from the bottom of my heart. Our merchandise is not worth risking your life for. This is very shoddy material. It's often repurposed.

[Patricia Arquette]

Some of it might be toxic and endangering you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Exactly. Yeah. That's an old Friday night light shirt that we. Yeah. That we spray painted over using a really. An out of date spray paint. Paint. So, no, do not risk your life. Do not approach a burglar. If. If anyone approaches you and says, you know, give me that Conan O'Brien, merch. Just give it up. Just give it up.

[Patricia Arquette]

And funny you should say that. She shouldn't approach him because I feel like the first thing that you.

[Sona Movsesian]

I would absolutely approach him.

[Conan O'Brien]

Not for a Conan O'Brien shirt.

[Sona Movsesian]

Not for. No, but like.

[Conan O'Brien]

But if someone was wearing, like your Cher shirt.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, if someone in my house. And like, first. First of all, he just put a shirt on.

[Patricia Arquette]

I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Also, here's another thing. She said. She ripped it off like, he's a stripper. Like, it's a tearaway shirt.

[Patricia Arquette]

I think the shirts are so threadbare and cheap that you can just rip them off.

[Conan O'Brien]

Or most people that own Conan merch are so. And I'm speaking about myself in the third person, so love Conan that they rarely take it off and it becomes threadbare more quickly. Hands easily to tear. Yeah. So I think that's a possibility. I don't know. I don't think people should be. Should be risking their lives for Conan merch. No, especially the mugs. I mean, the mugs often explode. That's been proven.

[Patricia Arquette]

Mugs could be good weapons.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. No, not our Mugs, they just turn to powder the minute you hit someone. But it's nice. She did say we met, but she doesn't say where we met. She said it was midnight, and I can't tell from the picture where we were her. So maybe it's when I broke back into the house to get the shirt back after my initial failed attempt.

[Sona Movsesian]

It would have been really funny if you were just, like, an absolute dick to her. If you were just like, ugh, I don't like taking pictures.

[Patricia Arquette]

But that's the opposite. He broke back into the house so he could get a selfie, and so he could.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm the guy that asks people, would you like a selfie?

[Patricia Arquette]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

When often they don't even have a phone.

[Patricia Arquette]

Like, the sirens are down the street. And he breaks back in going, I haven't signed your shirt yet.

[Conan O'Brien]

Would you like me to sign it? That would be more likely, but. Well, I. I'm. I'm glad she got her shirt back.

[Patricia Arquette]

I'm glad she's okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm glad she's okay. But I do think we should take a lesson away from this. That, you know, look, if it's Marvel merchandise. Yes. Fight for your life to get it back.

[Patricia Arquette]

That's the weird thing. What's the motivation of the burglar? What? This is what they decide to take. Take, you know?

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, first of all, okay, that. Now you're being a dick.

[Sona Movsesian]

Well, I'm on this podcast when I used to steal.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yes.

[Sona Movsesian]

I used to just be like, can I do it?

[Matt Gourley]

Oh.

[Sona Movsesian]

And so it wasn't about stealing. It was about could, like. And also, I got very arrogant. Like, I would wear a bracelet in a store, and I'd just be like, I'm gonna walk out wearing the bracelet.

[Conan O'Brien]

I remember once, Sona, I. Sona and I were in Worcester, Massachusetts, and there is an armory there, and there's an armor museum. A museum of, like, Flemish, British, French armor from 18th and 19th century. And we were in there, and this is during Sona's let me see if I can get away with this phase. Sona walked out wearing a full suit of armor. E O, E O, E O, E O, E, O.

[Sona Movsesian]

If you acted you were wearing it in, it would just be like, oh, she's just leaving in the afternoon.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was from 1622, and it had all this fancy filigree on it. And so the guy said, excuse me, miss, I think you. And she was like, what? What? I was wearing this on the way in. You're racist.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, my God.

[Conan O'Brien]

Remember when you Said you're racist.

[Sona Movsesian]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you had the visor down. So he didn't even know. Right. He didn't know who you were.

[Sona Movsesian]

Right. Look, I liked just like showing, Hey, I just took.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsesian]

And it's, you know, most of the time if you walk out confidently, people are just gonna be like, it was.

[Conan O'Brien]

A piece of armor that you stole from Worcester, Massachusetts, and you should give it back.

[Sona Movsesian]

That was such a build up to what you were gonna say. There's so much just information.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, listen, always appreciate.

[Sona Movsesian]

What museum did we go to?

[Conan O'Brien]

There's a. There's a. Can you look up the. What's this? The Museum of Armor.

[Patricia Arquette]

We're fact checking this.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Patricia Arquette]

This fake story.

[Conan O'Brien]

What is happening? It really happened.

[Sona Movsesian]

It really happened.

[Conan O'Brien]

Worcester Massachus Museum of Armor. Come on. What do you mean? I'm working on it.

[Sona Movsesian]

Old ladies.

[Matt Gourley]

Higgins Armory.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, Higgins Armory. It was the one thing when I would go visit my cousins. Every time my aunt would say it would be raining out and we'd be like, we got nothing to do and what is there to do in Worcester? And she'd say, go to the Museum of Armor.

[Patricia Arquette]

Oh, my God.

[Conan O'Brien]

And so we'd drive over to the Higgins Museum of Armor. And there was no attempt to make it look interesting. Just literally a giant warehouse and someone had lots of suits of armor that they just laid out. They didn't even put mannequins in them.

[Sona Movsesian]

I feel like you would enjoy that though. Did you act like you weren't excited because you didn't want your cousins to think you were?

[Conan O'Brien]

Truth be told, yeah. Greatest days of my life. Boy, did this little orange haired boy love a suit of armor. Oh, look, it's Dutch. Hey, Luke. Hey, Neil. I found one that's Dutch. And then the beatings commence. Anyway, take care, fans. Don't stop crime and visit the Higgins Armor museum in Worcester, Massachusetts.

[Patricia Arquette]

Conan O'Brien needs a with Conan O'Brien Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign in. Sign [e-mail] Conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend Wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[Eduardo]

Building a business may feel like a big jump, but on deck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to 250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtibank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

[Ben Stiller]

Sometimes you have to choose between a great deal or a great experience. Other prepaid providers stick you with slow networks and price hikes, but with US Cellular Prepaid, getting a great deal doesn't mean sacrificing a great experience. US Cellular Prepaid offers great nationwide 5G coverage without any gimmicks or hidden fees, and now you can get a free Samsung Galaxy A16.5G to make a great experience. Even better, stay connected without making sacrifices. Terms apply. Visit uscellular.com for details.