Charlie Puth

Summary

Podcast Summary: Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend – Charlie Puth

Release Date: May 18, 2026
Host: Conan O’Brien with Sona Movsessian
Guest: Charlie Puth

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Episode Overview

In this lively and musically-charged episode, Conan O’Brien welcomes acclaimed singer-songwriter Charlie Puth, whose fourth studio album "Whatever’s Clever" is out now. The episode is a mix of playful banter, deep introspection about fame, creative vulnerability, music theory, and the challenge of self-perception—both as an artist and a person. With Charlie seated at a keyboard for the entire chat, the conversation dips into spontaneous musical demonstrations, confessions about criticism, musical origins, and an honest recognition of insecurities common to both comedy and music.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sona’s “Barnacle” Journey (00:00–10:40)

• Sona Movsessian’s Media Moment:
  • Conan and Sona kick off by talking about Sona’s recent LA morning television appearance for her book World’s Worst Mom.
  • Conan teases Sona about being his “barnacle,” riding his career coattails with self-aware affection.
  • Sona reflects on her adaptability—switching personas for television professionalism—and the art of being “normal” when required.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “You have this ability…to appear like a normal person when necessary. You’re very charming and you’re not dropping F-bombs…” —Conan (04:00)
  • “I have done the perfect grift and I’m cool with it. I am perfectly happy.” —Sona (06:38)

2. Charlie Puth Joins—Musical Antics & Album Talk (10:35–14:00)

• Keyboard in Studio:
  • Charlie brings a keyboard, instantly sparking improvisational music to underscore the podcast’s moods.
  • Conan jokes about making every guest use a keyboard in future episodes, regardless of musical skill.
• Charlie’s New Album & Collaborations:
  • The album “Whatever’s Clever” is out, featuring tracks like “Don’t Meet Your Heroes” and a collaboration with Jeff Goldblum (“Until It Happens to You”).
• Goldblum’s Distinctive Style:
  • Charlie recounts Jeff Goldblum emotionally moving everyone in the studio by speaking like “jazz scatting,” but it’s just “pure Goldblum.”
  • "It's almost the part of the song where someone would scat and he is kind of scatting. But then I realized that's just how Jeff Goldblum talks...you realize that, oh, this is a version of jazz." —Conan (14:02)

3. Live Musical Demo: The National Anthem & Pitfalls (15:00–19:00)

• Performing the Anthem:
  • Discussion on the pitfalls of performing the “Star-Spangled Banner,” starting too high, and musical “landmines.”
  • Spontaneous, comedic attempts by Conan to sing the anthem in different keys, with Charlie guiding him at the keyboard.
• Vocal Range & Humor:
  • “It’s kind of like a cross between Tiny Tim and Freddie Mercury.” —Charlie (19:16)
  • “I had my testicles removed six weeks ago in preparation for this interview.” —Conan (19:21)
• Memorable Moment:
  • Sona and Conan joke about the infamous “Fergie” anthem performance.
  Sona: “Fergie, she famously went buck wild with the Star Spangled Banner.” (17:42)

4. Professor Puth: The Pop Music Science Lesson (19:47–29:00)

• Charlie’s “Professor Puth” TikTok Series:
  • Conan praises Charlie’s knack for explaining pop music phenomena—like “sidechain compression”—in accessible ways.
  • Charlie demystifies the “wah-wah” sound of club music, tying modern production back through history (Donna Summer, Phil Collins, Metallica).
  • Both draw parallels between comedic and musical influences, emphasizing that no creative act is truly “original.”
• Insightful Quote:
  • "The cool thing about music is you can trace everything back to something." —Charlie (28:06)

5. Criticism, Validation, and Artistic Identity (29:00–38:00)

• Handling Critique:
  • Charlie opens up about the pain of negative reviews (“just another soulless attempt at being an artist”), despite pouring his life into an album.
  • He discusses seeking validation and the psychological trap of reading online reviews.
  • “I look at these reviews as much as my child...My wife tells me to stop.” —Charlie (31:53)
• Comedy vs. Music Validation:
  • Conan shares that comedians must constantly “re-earn” approval, moment by moment on stage, while musicians are often celebrated for their full bodies of work.
  • “All the clickers go back to zero...and if [the joke] isn’t [great], I’m nothing.” —Conan (35:24)

6. Origin Stories: Musical Memory and Early Talent (38:10–44:00)

• Charlie’s Catholic School Revelation:
  • Charlie recounts stepping in for a missing church organist as a child, revealing his innate gift for musical memory.
  • He assumed everyone could play music by ear—realizing only later it was rare.
• Artist Self-Esteem & Cringe:
  • Discussion about Charlie’s track “I Used to Be Cringe,” leading to Conan’s realization about universal self-criticism.
  • “That is the human condition...we are very self-critical and think our former selves were illegitimate.” —Conan (43:00)

7. Music Theory Meets Comedy Structure (45:00–51:36)

• Chords & Dramatic Structure:
  • In-depth (and playful) breakdown of musical tension/resolution and its parallel in sitcom and stand-up comedy structure.
  • “So much of music is creating tension and then resolving tension. And that’s what so much of comedy is.” —Conan (48:53)
• Fun Musical Demos:
  • Conan requests Charlie to test his “pitch memory” on various iconic songs, with Charlie analyzing in real time.

8. Offbeat Interests & Personal Tangents (54:17–56:10)

• Cars of the Modern Era:
  • The conversation swerves into Charlie’s obsession with modern cars (e.g., the Yukon Denali) and car YouTuber Doug DeMuro.
  • The trio riff on the joys of getting lost in side obsessions as an escape from their public personas.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------|------------| | Sona on local TV, “barnacle” analogy | 00:41–07:00 | | Charlie’s TikTok musicology | 20:00–26:00 | | Charlie on negative reviews & validation | 31:23–35:16 | | Musical tension & comedy parallels | 45:42–51:36 | | Charlie’s church organist story | 22:21–24:32 | | National Anthem performance discussion | 15:38–19:20 | | “I Used to Be Cringe” & self-doubt | 43:00–44:45 | | Offbeat obsession: modern cars | 54:17–56:10 |

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Notable Quotes

• "You have this ability...to appear like a normal person when necessary." —Conan (04:00)
• "I have done the perfect grift and I'm cool with it. I am perfectly happy." —Sona (06:38)
• "It’s kind of like a cross between Tiny Tim and Freddie Mercury.” —Charlie (19:16)
• "I've had hit songs out...People knew the hits more than they knew me. My goal on this album was for people to know me." —Charlie (32:01)
• “The cool thing about music is you can trace everything back to something.” —Charlie (28:06)
• “That is the human condition...we are very self-critical and think our former selves were illegitimate.” —Conan (43:00)
• “Musicians who make it all about themselves are the first to fall.” —Charlie (47:20)
• “So much of music is creating tension and resolving tension. That’s what so much of comedy is.” —Conan (48:53)

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Memorable Moments

• Keyboard-driven mood music as Charlie riffs to Conan’s moods (11:22–12:02)
• The trio’s analysis of disastrous National Anthem performances, notably Fergie’s (17:34)
• Conan’s comedic attempt to claim song rights from Charlie (12:52)
• Self-deprecating humor about being “barnacles” and “con men” (06:11)
• A running joke about Portland shows never selling out (59:16–59:41)
• “You can’t handle the Puth” pun explosion, ending in group exasperation (56:55–57:50)

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is freewheeling, self-aware, irreverent, and often touching, showing both Conan and Charlie wrestling with their creative insecurities and the desire for genuine connection with audiences. Charlie’s humility, openness about artistic vulnerability, and musical dexterity make for dynamic listening—paralleled by Conan and Sona’s unfiltered humor and camaraderie. The result is an episode that is both fun and unexpectedly profound, offering compelling insights for fans of creativity, comedy, and music alike.

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Recommended For:
Anyone interested in the realities behind show business, the interplay between music and comedy, the psychology of fame, or those simply wanting an upbeat, spontaneous, and musically annotated podcast hangout.

Transcript

[Charlie Puth]

Hi, my name is Charlie Puth, and I feel blank about being. About being Conan o' Brien's friend.

[Conan O'Brien]

We're gonna fill in that blank and by the end of this episode, you're gonna feel, I think the word's gonna

[Charlie Puth]

be ecstatic or filled.

[Conan O'Brien]

That makes me uncomfortable. Charlie

[Sona Movsessian]

Fall is here. Hear the yell Back to school Ring

[Conan O'Brien]

the bell Brand walking loose Climb the

[Sona Movsessian]

fence Books and pens I can tell

[Conan O'Brien]

that we are gonna be friends

[Charlie Puth]

I

[Conan O'Brien]

can tell that we are gonna be friends hey there. Welcome to Conan o' Brien Needs a Friend. I'm Conan o', Brien, of course, and I'm joined by Sona Movsessian. Hello, Sona.

[Sona Movsessian]

Very good to be here. Thanks for having me.

[Conan O'Brien]

And David Hopping is, of course, filling in for Matt Gorley, who. Who's on paternity leave forever.

[Charlie Puth]

Still. God.

[Conan O'Brien]

Listen, I respect a guy, he takes fatherhood seriously. I did not. When Liza was giving birth to our first child, I left mid contraction to go back to work. And I still haven't met my daughter, but I'm told she's lovely.

[Sona Movsessian]

It's very sweet. He spends a lot of time with his family.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's very nice. And that's a familial bond, which is very important. Early on, you've got to do it. But he'll return one day. Until that time, there's much to talk about. So I had a nice surprise, which is I turn on the TV the other morning. The TV's just on in the background. And they go, and coming up, Sonam Obsession. And it was. Was it? Is it. What's it called? Good Day.

[Sona Movsessian]

It's called Good daily. It's on Fox 11 News. It's a local. Yeah, people from LA know good day.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's the thing. And you know, I was just like, I've got to watch Fox right now. I was just like, I've got to see my Fox.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You love a local Fox affiliate.

[Conan O'Brien]

Love of a Fox affiliate. And that's just the way I've always been. And then I hear we'll be right back with Sonam Obsession.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you come on and you have a book that's coming out fairly soon, your first book, which was a smash hit, World's Worst Assistant. I don't see why it was so popular because it's just a book about truth,

[Sona Movsessian]

about my time being your assistant called the World's Worst Assistant.

[Conan O'Brien]

You wrote the Forward. I wrote the Forward.

[Sona Movsessian]

And this is the world's worst.

[Conan O'Brien]

This one's called World's Worst Mom. It's all about your adventures raising your. Your two lovely boys, AKA monsters. They're lovely. They're lovely. I love those.

[Sona Movsessian]

They are monsters. They're adorable.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love winding them up. When they come here to the office, I drop everything I'm doing and I chase them around.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

They get super hyper, so they're not going to go to sleep for six days. And then I say, gotta go. And I go into a recording session and I always see your husband Tack looking like, F you, man. They are plutonium. By the time I'm done with them, they are.

[Sona Movsessian]

They're psychotic.

[Conan O'Brien]

I chase them upstairs, downstairs. They chase me. They love it.

[Sona Movsessian]

They love it.

[Conan O'Brien]

So this is you on the news. Sonam Obsession. And I was thinking. I just. I'm sorry, I had to look at that and think, look how far you've come. Amazing.

[Sona Movsessian]

I grew up watching Good Day la and then I was on it. I've. But I also. I've never done live television and I had to be very aware of what I talked about. Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

You've done a lot of things with me, but those are on tape. And there's time to pull things up a bit. If you get salty with your language, because you did some time in the Navy and you have a. You got a mouth on you, sister. Right. And so I was amazed at how professional you were.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

But almost like you took classes.

[Sona Movsessian]

What do you mean? Like media training classes.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Have you ever done that?

[Sona Movsessian]

Do you think I've done that?

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't know. You have this ability, which you've always had to appear like a normal person when necessary. You know what I mean? Like, you're very charming and you're not dropping f bombs. You're not telling raunchy stories. You are just this glowing.

[Sona Movsessian]

Well, sometimes when I was working for you as your assistant, there were times when we had to interact with, like, actual, real people, like, professional, decent people.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right.

[Sona Movsessian]

And so you have to, like, you have to switch it up. We can't be like, oh, fuck you. Fuck you in front of, like, you know, Michelle Obama or, like, her people.

[Conan O'Brien]

I hope not. Jesus.

[Sona Movsessian]

But we can't do that. So it's, you know, you have to be good.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

And professional.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

And so yesterday I was on the news. I was on the news and I was following Manny Pacquiao, which was crazy. Yeah. He was on before me. And I. And, yeah, I had so much fun. And those women I was on with, one of whom is my friend Araxia, and then the other two anchors, everyone was so professional, they're so, like, cool. They're fun, they look great.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I don't mean to insert myself in a situation, but don't you think in a way they had you on to kind of get to the big dog? Do you know what I mean? Like, was there anything like, oh, so you're here, so. No, that's great. Is he coming?

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh, they think, like, you come with me.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

And then you would just replace me.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, not replace you, but you have to. Look, it's just got to be a thing in your life where you have to be a little suspicious that people. Maybe you're. If someone's being nice to you. Oh, it's just to get to the guy.

[Sona Movsessian]

Okay, the guy. Listen, you're doing bits about this, but you're also right. You're right.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm not doing a bit.

[Sona Movsessian]

Comes to me to get to you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Sona Movsessian]

They do.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know that I'm going to get a call tomorrow from Good Day L. A. And they're going to be like, well, Sona was on, so I guess now your turn.

[Sona Movsessian]

Well, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right.

[Sona Movsessian]

Well, it's kind of like you're at a feast and there's like scraps falling and I'm like, yay, I get to eat.

[Conan O'Brien]

You just likened yourself to an animal under the table.

[Sona Movsessian]

But I've always been a barnacle on your cruise ship. And I'm fine with that. And I love it. And I get. Do things like go and good day LA. And that's what I'm saying.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't. And you know what I'm going to say. Barnacles are necessary. They serve a function.

[Sona Movsessian]

What?

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't know what it is. I know they have to be scraped off religiously. They do, but they must serve some function.

[Sona Movsessian]

No, they don't. That's the whole point. You have to scrape them off.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, then you're a barnacle.

[Sona Movsessian]

I'm a barnacle.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Sona Movsessian]

And you know what? It's cool. I feel like I'm a con man. I have done the perfect grift and I'm cool with it. I am perfectly happy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I will say I've blown. I mean, every time I see. It's Sona. Every time I see this Sona out in the world, I'm very impressed. You look great. You're very engaging. You're funny. And the thing I've always said about you is you don't change when the camera's on you. You don't change when you're in here being on the podcast. You don't change I swear to God, if I made you come out with me at the top of the Oscars, you would be. Sona. You wouldn't be. That is a gift. Because most people I know, hardly anyone, you might be the most natural person in every situation. That's pretty cool.

[Sona Movsessian]

Thank you. And, you know, a few weeks ago, I did a keynote speech at the Writers Workshop in Dayton. The Irma Bombeck Writers Workshop. I wrote a speech. And I remember I sent you a text because you're doing the Harvard commencement speech this year. And I was like, if you need help, I'm right. I am a speech champion.

[Conan O'Brien]

You are a speech champion. And you bring that up a lot, that you're a speech.

[Sona Movsessian]

I bring it up every. Almost every day.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. A huge impact on your life.

[Sona Movsessian]

Kind of.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

I mean, I'm doing this for a living, which is just talking.

[Conan O'Brien]

This isn't. Couldn't be a living.

[Sona Movsessian]

This is my living.

[Conan O'Brien]

Is it?

[Sona Movsessian]

This is literally my life.

[Conan O'Brien]

You should get paid as my assistant. Do you still get paid as my assistant?

[Sona Movsessian]

Yes, I do.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Back in October, I had to go to a wedding. She covered me for two days.

[Sona Movsessian]

I covered him for two days. Remember?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

You went to the eye doctor. That's why you pay me.

[Conan O'Brien]

Why did he go to the eye doctor? Why did you go.

[Sona Movsessian]

You went to the eye doctor?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, they were, like, watering. Oh, that's right. They were watering. And then it turned out they said, you're having an emotion. That's how repressed I am. I said, my eyes are watering. Watering. And they let anything happen. Well, you know, my parents died last year, and also this sad thing happened, and they said that's called crying.

[Sona Movsessian]

But I do things sometimes. I don't. I actually don't. I don't do anything.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's an incredible. And this is. We have just. We just. I just saw this rock. I was walking through the forest, and I saw this rock, and I just lifted it up, and I saw scandal, depravity, injustice, and. And I quickly put the rock down. But if you think we're not revisiting this rock and lifting it up again, you're sorely mistaken, because this is a scandal. And I want. I want Sue Lane in here. I want Sarah Fedorovich in here. I want to open the books on this thing, because I think you're committing a crime.

[Sona Movsessian]

How dare you? I was.

[Conan O'Brien]

How dare you? How dare me?

[Sona Movsessian]

The fallout from being your assistant has been that I am attached to you for the Rest of your life. So for the rest of your life, you are paying me to be your assistant, even though I'm not assistant.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm going to investigate this. I'm going to get into the weeds. This is a crime. This is a crime at every level.

[Sona Movsessian]

It is.

[Conan O'Brien]

And we're going to have to figure out. I mean, yeah, I mean. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

[Sona Movsessian]

I still get notifications when it's someone's birthday. I don't do anything with the notifications, but I get them.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah. Did you get a notification about this Saturday? My fucking birthday? Hey, I think the Barnacle should learn the birthday of the cruise ship it's been hanging out on. You had no idea. Oh, I get notifications about important birthdays. Oh, yeah? How about this Saturday?

[Charlie Puth]

Whoa.

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, you just remember you don't need a notification because it's just.

[Sona Movsessian]

It's there.

[Conan O'Brien]

I always know it.

[Sona Movsessian]

I have tattooed on my leg.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

April 18th.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thumbs up. All right, listen.

[Sona Movsessian]

Shut up, Blaze.

[Conan O'Brien]

Wow. We've exposed so much crime. The rot goes deep. The rot goes deep. All right, my guest today is a singer songwriter whose fourth studio album, whatever's Clever, is out now. Very excited to chat with this gentleman, Charlie puth. Welcome. Is this a first? I think after 35 years of doing this podcast for the first time, Our guest, Charlie Puth has a keyboard in front of you, which is really cool and may become mandatory for everyone. I may just say, even if they. Most people won't play the keyboard, but I'll insist that it be there and that they take a few stabs at it.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

It kind of colors my words a little bit more. Like if I'm. If I have, like, a really good idea.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh.

[Charlie Puth]

If I'm introspect.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let me ask you something. What if I start to speak and things get menacing?

[Charlie Puth]

Well, I'm gonna switch it to the piano here.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let me tell you something, Charlie. Oh, no. I don't like you and I don't like what you stand for. I've never liked these musicians, these prodigies, and I'm gonna kill you.

[Charlie Puth]

Now.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let's have a get happy. And then.

[Charlie Puth]

I know, wait a minute.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm off my meds, but now I'm back on my meds again, Charlie.

[Charlie Puth]

Because now we're in C major and you don't end up killing me. That's good. See, I'm in it now.

[Conan O'Brien]

You're in it now. Lovely to have you here. There is so much to talk about. You're on fire at the moment. You've got this great album out. Thank you. And I'm very excited to have you here because I just want to talk about something. First of all, it's called whatever's clever. First of all, this is crazy, but one of your tracks is Don't Meet your Heroes, and yet here you are. High five. Sona. Come on.

[Charlie Puth]

Holy shit.

[Conan O'Brien]

I had to. I love. I Used to be Cringe. I was listening to that, actually might be my favorite song on the album. It's a really good song. And you talk about. How is that. Yes. Now, wait.

[Charlie Puth]

I said don't play more than six seconds of a song. But I'll let you play. I'll give the rights to you or whatever the fuck it is.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, you just wait a minute. You just gave me the rights to a Charlie Puth song, you idiot. And that's a verbal contract. That's what I'm going to. My new scam is going to be getting, you know, Billie Eilish in here, getting Taylor Swift in here, getting Sabrina Carpenter here, and then having them blurt out, okay, you can have the rights. And then overnight, I've got seven yachts strapped together.

[Charlie Puth]

I don't know if I Used to be Cringe is going to give you seven yachts, but I really like it.

[Conan O'Brien]

I identify with the song, though mine would not be past tense. I remain cringe.

[Charlie Puth]

Well, mine isn't past tense either, but still.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then I love this. One of my favorite people was Jeff Goldblum. You have a collab with Jeff Goldblum on a song called Until It Happens to youo. And I thought, oh. Cause I know Jeff's a musician. This is gonna be Jeff playing. When you get to his part, which would normally be like rap or singing a solo part, it's him talking, and it's fantastic. It's a great 10cc shot of pure Goldblum in the song.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yes.

[Charlie Puth]

He's like, well, Bo. If. If I were to tell you that kind of sounds like Howard Stern.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's good, though. That's good.

[Charlie Puth]

But, like, it's a song about reacting to losing a loved one. And it's. It's kind of. It's kind of like a disguise and, like very happy. Very happy chords. But it's just like. It's about death. It's about death. And Jeff Goldblum, like. Well, he made us all cry in the. In the studio because he just, like, started speaking to his kids who weren't there, but, like, speaking to us like we were his kids. And it felt the end of a movie where the credits kind of slowly trickle down, and everyone's walking away into the sunset down the yellow brick road.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, I liked. First of all, it's Goldblum who's got the most distinctive. I mean, he's up there with Christopher Walken and a couple of other iconic people who have such a distinctive way of speaking. And it's almost the part of the song where someone would scat and he is kind of scatting. But then I realized that's just how Jeff Goldblum talks. Let me tell some. Yeah, and he's doing that, and you realize that, oh, this is a version of jazz. And it's just the way Jeff Goldblum talks.

[Charlie Puth]

Absolutely, it is. And I. You know, I strive to find the most melodic people on anything that I. Any project that I make.

[Conan O'Brien]

And, yes, I'll do it. Wait, I'm sorry.

[Charlie Puth]

That was my next question.

[Conan O'Brien]

I thought that was an invite. I've got the rights to one song, and now I'm gonna be in another song. This is the worst day for your career ever.

[Charlie Puth]

Spending a lot of money.

[Conan O'Brien]

I said you were on fire, and you are, but it ends here.

[Charlie Puth]

I'm, like, negative, like, 26 dol.

[Conan O'Brien]

I've got to mention. We'll talk more about the album in a second. But. And when I say a second, I mean towards the end of the interview. But you killed a national anthem, and you must be getting at the Super Bowl.

[Charlie Puth]

Very hard song to sing.

[Matt Gourley]

It is.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's a very hard song. He said, being a comedian, not a musician. But I've always heard the trick is. And the rocket's red glare takes such a big leap. Who owns the national anthem? I'm sure Trump has it now, but no, he bought the rights, like, six weeks when no one was looking. But what. What? I've always heard the secret is to start low. Well, that's what I would do. I would be like, o. Say, can I would start down there.

[Charlie Puth]

Well, you were doing it in C major. Oh, say can you.

[Conan O'Brien]

So then when I go up to have the rockets read. I can.

[Charlie Puth]

You'd have to go octave up from. Actually, no, you're correct.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, say I was right, wasn't I? Oh, say can you see? And the rockets. Red glare.

[Charlie Puth]

What do you have to feel so patriotic.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

In this moment. Well, I mean, visually, if I can represent. The reason why it's hard to sing is because, like, you start. If you're gonna start here, and then you have to go here, and then you have to actually go. Yes, up here at the middle end of. At the end of the song, so you don't get a break.

[Conan O'Brien]

When I see someone start the national anthem too high.

[Sona Movsessian]

Ho ho.

[Conan O'Brien]

Say. I'm like, you're dead. You are dead. Yeah. And I say that, I start screaming at the tv, you're dead.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah, because then you act awkwardly, change keys. Nobody comes to mind. Because everybody nails the national anthem, obviously, but.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, I bet you have some. No, everyone. You seem like too nice a guy, but, you know, I know in your head right now there are some names of people we're all thinking of, but

[Charlie Puth]

you're correct when you start a specific one.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sona. What's that?

[Sona Movsessian]

Fergie?

[Charlie Puth]

I'm trying to get off the exit here. When you.

[Conan O'Brien]

You didn't say anything. Charlie and I didn't say anything. What are you saying, Sona?

[Sona Movsessian]

Fergie, she famously went crazy. She went buck wild with the star spangled bag.

[Conan O'Brien]

Did she start too high?

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsessian]

Don't ask me. I don't know. I'm.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think I. Sarah Ferguson. The Duchess of York.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yes, yes, Sarah Ferguson.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, well, she had no business singing the National Anthem. I know.

[Charlie Puth]

I agree. London Brid. Fantastic.

[Conan O'Brien]

And again, not. It stays. Stays in a restrained range. If I'm ever asked to sing the national anthem, and I know it's. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm still very young in my career.

[Sona Movsessian]

It's coming.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's coming. Thanks, Charlie. I will start low. I will start low.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah, but you're. You are correct in your assessment. You don't want to start like. Because then you have to go, I

[Conan O'Brien]

wonder how high I could start and still hit it. Oh, say can you see by the dancer delight.

[Sona Movsessian]

What?

[Conan O'Brien]

So oddly we hear the laughter singing. Here we.

[Charlie Puth]

A modern day Mini Riperton.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know what? You ran out of keyboard and I saw you pull some extra white keys out of your pocket and glue them.

[Charlie Puth]

I had to really drive the shit up. You got really loud there for a second.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, it's insane. It's insane. But I.

[Charlie Puth]

It's kind of like a cross between Tiny Tim and, like, Freddie Mercury.

[Sona Movsessian]

How dare you?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It's a very good musical analysis. I had my testicles removed six weeks ago in preparation for this interview. And I'm told they might be able to reattach them. Might. If they can find them.

[Charlie Puth]

See, you don't get stuff like this in Santa Barbara, where I live. You have to come to Hollywood for this shit.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know what I love, Charlie? There's A. You perform a great service, which is. I just want to make sure I get the title right.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Professor Puth. TikTok series. You have this TikTok series that I enjoy because I'm an amateur musician, and I like to play around with guitar, and I like to try and make music with other musicians in my way. A lot of qualifiers.

[Charlie Puth]

You're a musician. You're downplaying it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I love doing it. It's a big part of my private hobby life. But I've always been phobic about theory, and I was phobic about math when I was a kid. And when people would bring up math, I would think, I'm not smart. I can't do this. And I would shut down about math. And in the same way, when people bring up theory, I love to mess around on the guitar. And then when someone says, well, that's interesting. That's the relative minor. So you can take the relative minor. But remember, if you play the flat, remember there are three flats, and I just black out.

[Charlie Puth]

I do, too.

[Conan O'Brien]

You do, really?

[Charlie Puth]

Absolutely, I do. I'm not just saying that to make you feel better. I remember there's a, you know, solfege, do, re, mi, fa. So that is put in place so you can know. It's like a. It's built as a reference for singers. So, like, do. Oh, now it's a toy piano sound.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Good job, Schroeder.

[Charlie Puth]

This is C is do, and then FA is F. But I don't need dofa. Like, it's. It's an extra effort for me to remember that. I just know it's C and F. So I would go to my teacher and be like, I don't know how to read Soulfest. He was like, well, you have to know how to read Soulfish. You're in Soulfege class.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't like the way this teacher talked to you. Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

And I was like, if you don't know how to read it properly, you have to go to Solfege 3. But, like, but. And I would hold up the piece of paper. But, like, I can sing and playback every note perfectly. Because I. I don't need the reference. I have it in my head. She said, it doesn't matter. You have to go back to three. So I share that with you. Where I would get nervous.

[Conan O'Brien]

You have this great. You know, I use the term origin story a lot on the podcast, but you have this moment. You're interested in music, clearly. And, you know, you have a facility with music.

[Charlie Puth]

Have I made it clear.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, there is a keyboard in front of you, which Al Pacino did not have. But you went to Catholic school.

[Charlie Puth]

I did, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

You had a moment in Catholic school when is this correct? An organist, Someone who played the organ for you guys at a mass or something wasn't present.

[Charlie Puth]

Do we have an organ sound? I don't think we do, but yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Did we get you this or did you bring it?

[Charlie Puth]

I brought it just cause it has my initial CP on it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Very nice.

[Charlie Puth]

It's not my piano. It's tiny enough where it's not super.

[Conan O'Brien]

So you're that self involved that you need your name on everything.

[Charlie Puth]

Very narcissistic.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. I saw your license plate on your car when you drove. This puth rules. Yes.

[Charlie Puth]

In here.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. But yes.

[Charlie Puth]

The church organist didn't show up and they were going to play was the time of life where they would play things on tape. I don't even know if that exists anymore. But they were going to play the whole mass on tape and awkwardly pause it. And so they sometimes wouldn't pause it correctly. And then, and then I was like, I'll. I just. I know the whole mass from memory. I've heard the songs so many times because I thought it was like, if you look at a cup with a deer on it, you're gonna remember what the deer looks like. If you, you know, have a bit that you have to memorize. Like it's. If you read it enough, you're gonna remember eventually if you read it enough times. I thought that was the same thing for everybody, just with sound. And apparently it wasn't typical. And that's how I discovered it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, that's a. It's funny that you. You thought, well, wait a minute, okay, the organist is in here, the person was supposed to play.

[Charlie Puth]

But how can I make this about me?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, well, I would do that, but then have nothing to back it up. But you thought to yourself, I, oh, I've heard these a bunch of times, so I'll just go up and play them. And you didn't know that was unusual?

[Charlie Puth]

No, I didn't. Because again, I thought it was just like if you study for a vocabulary test, if you need to memorize the definition of whatever and not the word whatever. I know actually, what is the definition of anywho you read a bunch of definitions, you're gonna memorize them because you heard it so many or read it so many times. I attributed the same feeling with sound. If I hear a James Taylor song 10 times, I'm gonna know it. Right away.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. It endlessly fascinates me. That's why I.

[Charlie Puth]

That fascinates me too.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love your TikToks. I really love your TikToks because. And this is where it all started. I love when you explain something that I been hearing and it's around. But now you're explaining why so many songs sound like this. I remember watching one. I forget what it's called. But that whole trend in music where there's a. A soft and a loud. A soft and a loud and a soft and a loud. Oscillating. And it's become such an.

[Charlie Puth]

The sidechain compression.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sidechain compression, which we. Yeah. And it's.

[Sona Movsessian]

That was so cool.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. I'm sorry, do you want me to do it again? Oh, no, no, no. You mean what Charlie did.

[Sona Movsessian]

Charlie was doing.

[Conan O'Brien]

She meant what Charlie was doing musically was the one you were interested in.

[Sona Movsessian]

That's what I like. Were you trying to beatbox? What were you doing?

[Conan O'Brien]

I was choking on a chicken bone.

[Sona Movsessian]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Conan O'Brien]

But so. No, but what you were doing was. You start explaining what that is. And I realized I have heard that a million times. It's always associated with, like, a club. It's in, like, every, you know, episode of Euphoria. There's people crying, crying with lots of makeup. And it's like, whatever. You do it. Please. I don't want to do it again.

[Charlie Puth]

Sounds like a distress or something.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sona, I don't understand. You really love this, don't you? When I do this, that's exactly what you're talking about. Please, you do it. Please, Charlie, I beg you.

[Charlie Puth]

So everybody understood. If you went up to someone on Larchmont right now and was like, what does dance music sound like? They would go. They would put their hands. If you're in New Jersey, they would put their hands in the air. They'd be like, my goal is. So everyone knows that that's like, you know, the broad terminology of what dance music sounds like. But my goal is to take it one step further for people for. To understand that all that is is just volume automation. You know, like.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. That's just me falling, rising, falling, rising, falling, rising, falling.

[Charlie Puth]

And it's just volume down, volume up, volume down, volume up.

[Conan O'Brien]

But then what's cool is you talk about how a lot of people would think, okay, that's in club music now. Yes, it is. But you'll say, well, they were doing it in the 70s with. Or in the 60s with this. Then the 70s, they, you know, Donna Summer and Donna Summer.

[Charlie Puth]

It wasn't as obvious, though. It was just more of like a. A way to. It was more of like a really secret engineering trick.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. A little spice that they're putting in and not telling anybody. And then everyone exaggerates it more and more and more. It's like in so many other things in music, you can hear something's going on in sun session records in 1954, 55. And it's now we can say, well, it kind of just sounds kind of very much country. But at the time, it sounded very different to people because. And then people just kept tweaking it and tweaking it and it became, you

[Charlie Puth]

know, I mean, everybody wants more of what they like. So, like, when I first heard the Black Album, Metallica, like, Sad but True, the really bright 90s. Lars, like a motorcycle fucking, like, metal kind of kind of sound. Then I started here that came from, or might have been inspired by, like, Living on a Prayer, Bon Jovi or another Mutt Lang record where they were experimenting. But where did what came before Living On a Prayer? I'm generalizing, like, in the Air tonight. Phil Collins, Big Peter Gabriel. Phil Collins, gated drum sounds. Everything you can trace. The cool thing about music is that you can trace everything back to something.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. And that's the thing that's true of My business has been comedy. And it is so important for people to know no one's coming along with a fresh slate. Everybody is coming to their.

[Charlie Puth]

Call it a craft, call it a

[Conan O'Brien]

pastime, call it a career, whatever. They're all coming to it with this gumbo that they grew up eating that was just a mix of so many other influences. And everybody's starting with that. So you could say, oh, my God, the. I like the most hardcore thrash metal. But those guys will tell you. Well, actually, I was listening to, you know, REO Speedwagon in high school, and you'd be like, wait a minute. Reo Speedwagon? And I'm making this up because I don't think that's possible.

[Charlie Puth]

No, but I like.

[Conan O'Brien]

But you know what I mean? They heard something in that that then they extrapolated and pulled out and got to where they wanted to go.

[Charlie Puth]

Like, do you remember the first time you ever saw, I guess, the video? Or the. Of, like, Kinison at Danger Fields, like, when he just got up there and started yelling.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

Had anybody done that in comedy before where they just. Like, I just got back from a seven. I was saying, Marvel. Like, I Dice had his, like, you know, cigarette behind the Ear kind of like shtick and everything like that. But, like, where did that come from? The Nettie Murphy thing? Did that come from a. Like, Brian Regan not cursing at all in his bits? I don't know if you're enemies of these people or. No, I hope you're friendly with all of them.

[Conan O'Brien]

You have not named an enemy yet, but if you keep going, no, I don't. I don't have enemies.

[Charlie Puth]

I would listen to, like, 2005 Dane Cook, where he's cursing all over the place. But then I'd hear, like, a couple years prior, Brian Regan, where he wasn't. It was like, maybe he was listening to that, but just, like, added in the curses for, like, extra effect. Like, I. I think a lot of comedians are also musicians, too, because I think that's. There's a lot of parallels.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, we talk about this a lot. I bring it up a lot because it fascinates me. Everyone in comedy envies musicians, I believe, whether they consciously or unconsciously do it. I very consciously envy musicians because I always look at a musician as someone who's not judged moment to moment, and I envy that. That's not right. Well, no, but what I'm saying, moment to moment. I mean, when you start and you play one of your songs, people weren't going, I like this part. Oh, no, no, I don't like that part. Oh, but I like this part again. Oh, but I don't like this part. Now, that's not how they think about music. And that is very much comedy is moment to moment. Like, you get a laugh and then you do another thing and, like, less of a laugh. And then sometimes like, ooh. And then like, oh, yeah. And I don't think that happens in music. And I think I've always envied if you go out and play your hits, everyone's gonna be so happy the whole time. Springsteen's back out there now with the E Street Band, and I think, I

[Charlie Puth]

gotta go to that show.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, no, it's gonna be amazing. But no one's saying, okay, I like this part of this song. Oh, I don't like this part as much. But no comic ever gets to the point where they're not judged. I think moment to moment, in my opinion.

[Charlie Puth]

I'm sure Bruce has had fans who. Who are like, do we have to hear the fucking Rising one more time? Do we have to? Let's get to glory days. Let's get to. Yeah, I've. I was. I just put out an album, and of course, I'm like, Any artist that says that they're not reading reviews or scouring the Internet is lying. I am like, I, I look at this, I look at these reviews as much as my child. I'm.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you nurture them. You nurture them.

[Charlie Puth]

I take them too seriously sometimes. My wife tells me to stop looking at them. My, I, I, I saw this one, and everyone's entitled to their opinion. I saw this one review saying that Charlie just put out an album, and it is just another soulless attempt at trying to be an artist. And that really hurt my feelings because I actually did. I put my, my heart and soul in this. And I didn't make this album to make a bunch of hit songs. I wanted to actually talk about, you know, fatherhood, my family, and like, and other things like that. And they're like, boo doesn't have a catchy hook. It's like, I've had, you know, I had my song attention. You just wanna. Tension. You just wanna. I had that song out. It was a number one record. And we couldn't sell 3,000 tickets in. I think it was Chicago. It was like, 2,000 tickets. 2,000 people is a lot. But it was a tour meant for 5,6000 people. I've had hit songs out. People knew the hits more than they knew me. My goal on this album was for people to know me. And, and I, and, and sometimes I get jealous of comedians because, you know, their personality. Like, when I first time I saw Ralphie May, I was like, I became obsessed with, like, Greg, Geraldo, and, like, I just, I felt like I knew their personality.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

They've both passed, haven't they?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. That's okay.

[Charlie Puth]

Oh, man. I just named two people that passed.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's okay. It happens, you know?

[Charlie Puth]

You know what I mean? Like, I, I know you're. I feel like I know you because I've obviously grown up watching you and like, I. Your delivery. It's like, you are who you portray yourself to be. And whereas a musician, it takes a couple of years for people to get to know you unless you just nail it right out of the park.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's interesting to me that you have worked with so many great artists and then you yourself have had so many hits, people know your name. And now you're saying, yeah, I really want to get into the autobiographical part of songwriting and have people connect to you that way. That makes perfect sense to me. As far as critics go, there's no escaping criticism. And I got to a point in my career where I don't look for it. I Have. You know, sometimes you are just confronted, whether you want to know it or not, with the good and the bad. But. And usually people tell you if there's something really mean about you out there, you'll find out because your garbage man will say, hey, did you see that? You know, And I'll say, well, I didn't, but thank you. I don't think you're the worst fuckhead in the world. Well, I appreciate that.

[Charlie Puth]

Why are you eating so much dairy?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. Now the dairy is another issue. We'll talk about the dairy.

[Charlie Puth]

It's coating your stomach for the morning.

[Conan O'Brien]

But I would agree with your wife that you don't. I don't think it's necessary to seek it out because you know, when you're doing work that you like, that's important to you. And so that's why I would agree with her that you going on the Internet and looking for what do people think about Charlie Puth is unnecessary.

[Charlie Puth]

Everybody does it, though. I mean, and I totally agree with you, it is completely unnecessary. But like, it's almost like high school. You just want validation sometimes. You poured your heart and soul into this and you just want people to at least take a listen to it and understand. But. And there are so many. There's millions of people that already have.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I'm listen, I'm coming across as if I'm scolding you or telling you this is ridiculous. I completely understand what you're saying, but I've spent a lifetime around people that are looking for validation and then they're like, well, first I gotta do this sold out series of concerts at Madison Square Garden, and then I'm getting knighted in England and then I have to go to Spain where they're actually making me a member of the royal family, you know, and it's just one of these funny things about human beings. And trust me, anytime I do anything, I think this is the test of whether I'm any good or not. And I recalibrate every time I set all the clickers back to zero. I think you guys could agree that all the clickers go back to zero. And it's like you're giving a small toast at a Christmas party. Yes, I know, but these are good friends of mine and this has to be the greatest toast of all time. And if it isn't, I'm nothing. So I'm telling you that, yes, we're all ridiculous people, but at the same time, because I'm not you, I can say, you do not need to be hunting on The Internet and reading. Oh, good, someone wrote something nasty. I need to read every single word of it because I don't think it serves you. It doesn't serve your creativity. I don't think it's doing anything.

[Charlie Puth]

No, it doesn't.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you don't know what that person's going through, which is they really. You know, they made it. They wanted to do what you're doing, possibly. Or they have biases. Of course they do.

[Charlie Puth]

I've had interactions like that before. There was this, like, bartender who was very rude to me. And then I. I was. I was. I'm never rude to people, like, because I always have that mentality of, like, they might be going through something. And it turns out that, like, he didn't get into the school that I went to. And like, it's. He was very well aware that I went to that school. It all had to do very little with the fame aspect, with the school aspect. And then I ended up having a great conversation with him about music.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. Was this Berkeley?

[Charlie Puth]

This was somewhere in Woodstock, Vermont.

[Conan O'Brien]

But I mean, was the school Berkeley?

[Charlie Puth]

Oh, the school was Berkeley.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah. You ever been to Woodstock, Vermont?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, I have.

[Charlie Puth]

Gorgeous.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

Beautiful New England. New England.

[Conan O'Brien]

And yet this person's living in beautiful Woodstock, Vermont, and they're bitter and angry.

[Charlie Puth]

You know, maybe not anymore.

[Conan O'Brien]

No. I think after they. They already had a resentment towards you, then they met you and you were really nice.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's twice as bitter now and he's nice.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah. He should have been a dick is what you're saying.

[Conan O'Brien]

If you'd been a dick, then this guy would be so happy right now. I'm glad I'm not him. Then I'd be a dick. But now he's. I mean, he's probably not alive anymore. I'm just gonna put it out there.

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh, God.

[Conan O'Brien]

This took a turn. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think there's a good chance that person no longer walks the earth and it's your fault. But anyway, let's move on. God, I. I've gotta get into music. Cause I can't be a comedian anymore.

[Sona Movsessian]

You're sick.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm just a broken man.

[Sona Movsessian]

You're so sick.

[Conan O'Brien]

But it's gonna be fine.

[Charlie Puth]

It's like when you watch the sitcom and you hear like, you know, the. They're there, everything's gonna be okay. And then. And then you hear the audience clapping, like. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then you have to. And then like cousin Uncle Jesse comes in and you have to. Some. Some sort of like comedic breakup and be like anybody wanting to go get tacos. Ah. And then the credits fucking roll. Going on tour.

[Conan O'Brien]

Going on tour. And this is a big tour.

[Charlie Puth]

Big tour.

[Conan O'Brien]

What's the name of it? Is it named after your album?

[Charlie Puth]

It is the Whatever's Clever World tour. And I will be on stage with my band and they're the best band in the music industry. They make me sound so good. And it's just a joy to share the stage with them every single night. You have to come to a show.

[Conan O'Brien]

I would love to come to a show.

[Charlie Puth]

You come to the Forum show.

[Conan O'Brien]

And maybe if you want me to come out, sing a song. I know this is coming, so I want to save you the embarrassment.

[Charlie Puth]

No, I'm serious.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you just. You throw out a he. Because I also have perfect pitch.

[Charlie Puth]

I feel like you actually might comedically.

[Conan O'Brien]

I have perfect pitch. I never. Oh, wait, I just did that thing about a guy killing himself.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah, you did.

[Charlie Puth]

So what's another song that we might all know that you like? Like, you know, something in the Way She Moves. James Taylor, Sweet Caroline, Neil Diamond.

[Conan O'Brien]

What's it? Pitbull. Pitbull. I was mocking him with. I was doing a Pitbull sing earlier.

[Charlie Puth]

I wrote a Pitbull song.

[Conan O'Brien]

Which one?

[Charlie Puth]

It didn't do very well, but I wrote one. It was called. Oh, God. It was part of a movie. This was back in 2014.

[Conan O'Brien]

Was it men in Black?

[Charlie Puth]

It was Men in Black. It was. No, it was called Celebrate and it was. I just want to celebrate. And then he did his thing and we've been around the world, same song. I'm Pitbull.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, I'm Pitbull and I'm here to say I'm going to rock the usa. Oh, my God. I was driving in to work today and I was flipping around FM radio, which I never do, just randomly. And I heard this song and I'm like, what is that? And they were. Whoever the rapper was, I found out later on it's Pitbull was sampling. Baby who. You're the one down this late 50s or 60s hit. And I.

[Charlie Puth]

What is that song called? Because what I was going to ask you is if you can. Can sing a song that you like and see if it's actually in the key of the song.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right, I'm going to sing has runaway and we're going to get in trouble because we can't do these songs. But it's going to be a very

[Charlie Puth]

expensive guest that I am. Yeah, I forget. Well, don't even Sing the first song. Sing the first note of a song that you like.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I'm going to see. Wow, this is incredible.

[Charlie Puth]

Like, do you know Sweet Caroline? Sweet Caroline?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Not so well. I mean, I hear the way the Boston Red Sox crowd sings it, and we know they've been drinking and they've got 40 days. You sing a lot. I'm gonna give you 40 days. That's Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks. 40 days. How about a Jack White song?

[Sona Movsessian]

We are gonna be friends?

[Charlie Puth]

Ideally a song I know so I

[Conan O'Brien]

can see if he's correct, you know? We are gonna be friends. Fall is here. Hear the.

[Charlie Puth]

Oh, you're stumping back to stomp. I usually know every song.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, say it's a very famous song and I'm ashamed of you.

[Charlie Puth]

We can. We. We can get off it if you want, but, like, I just.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, I feel like I want to hear this. Cupid by Sam Cupid. Draw back your bullet song.

[Sona Movsessian]

What the.

[Conan O'Brien]

What the is wrong with you? I don't know. Die so that you could live.

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh, my.

[Charlie Puth]

What?

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, we gotta bring it up into the what about Beatles song.

[Charlie Puth]

Oh, yeah, Beatles song.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, of course, we all know those. Help. I need somebody. Help. I think that's B minor it starts off in. Yes, it is.

[Charlie Puth]

Okay, so help.

[Conan O'Brien]

I need some. Is that. Did I just sing in B minor?

[Charlie Puth]

Well, you're doing it in D minor.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I fixed it. The beat. I often fix Beatles songs.

[Charlie Puth]

You know the first chords of B minor. So you definitely have some extra recollection.

[Conan O'Brien]

I do. I remember that. Yeah. That's.

[Charlie Puth]

That's fascinating.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Okay, I'll admit something. You talk about this song where you make fun of your prior self or.

[Charlie Puth]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

And talk about how I used to be cringe. And I think one of the reasons I identify with that song is that I always want on this podcast to underscore that that is the human condition. It's not the Conan o' Brien condition. It's not the Charlie Puth condition. It is the human condition that we are very self critical and we think our former selves were illegitimate. And then we've slowly worked our way to legitimacy. Or we're not quite there yet, but we will be someday. And I think that's just a fallacy. I think we. So your song was about how I used to do this. I used to wear my hair differently. I used to try and throw out these words to seem cool. And I think. Yeah, I. This song is special. Resonated with me just because I think I do that about musicians, I think they're real. You know, they're real because you can sit here and you can make magic with this keyboard, and you can write these songs that 2 billion people will listen to. And I think, oh, that's many, many levels above what a comedian does. And I think a lot of comedians do that. I think a lot of us lower ourselves around musicians. Cause I just. I think we. We put musicians on a pedestal. And maybe rightfully so, if you lower yourself.

[Charlie Puth]

You just sang the fucking national anthem, right, Timmy?

[Conan O'Brien]

But I understand it as high as I think I could sing it, but this is very.

[Charlie Puth]

I didn't know that this was gonna be so introspective. This is very. Continue.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm sorry, I won't. No, I like it. Every now and then, some real stuff breaks out here, and we try to clean it up in editing and add fart sounds.

[Charlie Puth]

Why do you think comedians will lower themselves when.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think comedians are all about. They're well defended, you know, it's all

[Charlie Puth]

about keep the conversation moving.

[Conan O'Brien]

Keep the conversation moving. Slip and move and make fun of yourself before someone else can make fun of you. There's a lot of tricks that we all employ because really, we're just protecting ourselves. A lot of really funny comedians grew up not being able to fight. And this is what we could do. And so it literally is kind of a weapon. It's a survival mechanism. And these aren't new observations. This is as old as time. But I do think that a lot of comedians can grow up thinking, yeah, I do this because I literally had to make my mark or survive in some way. Not literally survive, but survive these social situations. And then music just feels so instantly like, oh, my God, that's great. Do more of that. When you come across someone who's playing the piano really well, you just think instantly, oh, my God. That's like God is speaking through them.

[Charlie Puth]

I was the best.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I don't think we think that way about comedy. God is not speaking through me. And if he was, God should be sued. But you know what I mean? And so I'm not. This isn't false modesty. This is what I really believe is that when someone is playing with these sounds and manipulating them in a way and creating these patterns seemingly without effort, I know there's a lot of practice involved and there's a lot of work, but when they sit down and they're just messing around and you see the film. Get back. The recut version of Let It Be. When you see that and you see Paul McCartney sitting with his bass. And he's frustrated cause they need a song. And he just starts over and over again, banging. And then you see it become the song. Get back through sheer force of will and creativity. And he does it in real time. And it's this song that again, is in my head. And I could make noises to simulate it.

[Charlie Puth]

I know the scene you're talking about.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And he's just there with his. I mean, they're like. They need something. And he just keeps with a bass, which I did not think of as a songwriter's instrument. I think it's guitar or it's often keyboard or piano. But he's there with a bass and he's just. And he's like, okay, yeah, yeah, I see what it is now. It's something. Don't sing too much. You'll have to pay. McCartney isn't cheap. And McCartney will. He's monitoring this stuff right now himself. He listens to this podcast because he knows, right, I gotcha. I gotcha. See what you done?

[Charlie Puth]

Because he's the master of. None of this is like. All of this is not even about me. It's not for. If a musician. The reason. Well, not the reason. This is how I'll say it. Musicians that make it all about themselves are the first to fall, in my opinion. Because this. I didn't invent this chord. This is like some God particle thing. And then we apply our human experience, right? Chords. Like. That sounds ugly, but like, when you put like, it starts to resolve. Like. Yeah. That does something that can make anybody. If there were a hundred people in here and I played like a fire alarm, everybody would, like, you know, wince and cover their ears. But you can. They're not going to do that. If I do. Gonna be like. They're not gonna. There's a difference. Like, you can do that. That's a very primitive example. But like, you can do that through intervals and chords. And then it's our goal as humans and job as humans to put our experience in what was made for us already.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

The stage was set.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, it's interesting, the parallel that I always find is because there are certain rules that exist. Obviously a Greek tragedy. I mean, the Greeks invented so much great salad, by the way.

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh, geez.

[Conan O'Brien]

But I just looked at Sona because she's park Greek.

[Sona Movsessian]

Like, I invented the salad.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, your people did. And I'm proud of you.

[Sona Movsessian]

You're welcome.

[Charlie Puth]

My gut feels amazing every time I eat what you've made.

[Sona Movsessian]

Welcome.

[Conan O'Brien]

But, you know, there's Dramatic structure. There's dramatic structure. And if you look, you know, plays, novels, any story has a dramatic structure. Sitcoms have a structure, you know, and then you look at. A lot of it is creating tension and then resolving tension. And that's what so much of music is. Is, you know, you. And then you're on the E. You're on the. You know, and then you get back to the A, and you're just like. There's this feeling of.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah, happy, happy, sad. Yeah, happy. Tension, resolve.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And it's just. I think it's the soundtrack for most mood stabilizer commercials is, you know, someone's. I don't feel good. I don't feel good. But then you tried Mileastra, you know, and then. Yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

And it's usually a ukulele or something.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. And then.

[Charlie Puth]

And then all the side effects.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. Side effects include massive diarrhea, more diarrhea. Your diarrhea will have diarrhea. People near you will have diarrhea. That's called sympathetic diarrhea. They change the key. Yeah, they change the key a bit. Also diarrhea and a higher key. But, you know, that I remembered there's a. I'm trying to think which.

[Charlie Puth]

There's a Led Zaria and a higher key is what the tour should be called.

[Conan O'Brien]

I' Even with that song. I think it's cashmere. You know, Dun dun, dun, dun. Yeah, we really gotta be careful. Cause Jimmy Page. Jimmy Page is on the same. He's watching on the same zoom with Sir Paul. Uh. Oh, there he goes. That's a song that stays forever. And then it's. I mean, these are very simple elemental changes, you know, And I don't know. I don't know that song that well. It's not in my head. But, you know, it's like it's in. It's almost like it's in E for a long time, and then it goes to E7. And so you can sort of see, like, the ice is starting to break. And it's. It's agonizingly long. And then suddenly it goes to, like, a. And every time that happens, every time I hear it in any context, I think I've just seen the face of God. And it's the simplest move in the world. But that is, I think, what a lot of people in comedy do as well, which is you create this tension of what this person is saying is completely outrageous. And then laughter is the resolution. People laugh and it's like, oh, good, we're out of that long sustained E7. And now we're into an A mate. It's like, ugh. Yeah. Yes. This person just saved the day. And what it is, is creating this unbearable tension and then breaking it.

[Charlie Puth]

You know, it's so.

[Conan O'Brien]

I've just ruined everything by trying to explain. People hate this.

[Charlie Puth]

I knew walking in here that I was. They were, you know, your staff is wonderful. They were like, it's going to be fun. It's like, yeah, I know it's going to be fun, but what you're not telling me is that it's going to be thought provok. I always have really interesting, awesome conversations with Dave Chappelle, yourself, Will Ferrell. It's never. I feel like the common misconception when you have a sit down with a comedian or an actor is that they're going to be 100% that person that you're thinking of. There's so much more to that every time. Will's a really good friend of mine. I'm sure you know him as well.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's an enemy, okay? He's an enemy and so is Chappelle. You just named my two archenemies.

[Charlie Puth]

I just haven't.

[Conan O'Brien]

I hate those guys. And they have no talent. None, none, none. Sad what happened to them. Anyway, continue.

[Charlie Puth]

My media training is.

[Conan O'Brien]

Whatever you do, don't mention Will Ferrell or Dave Chappelle, Dakon o', Brien, because he hates them. No, they are two.

[Charlie Puth]

I just have really.

[Conan O'Brien]

They are two spectacular geniuses.

[Charlie Puth]

I'm like slapping my knee, laughing, like, talking to them. I'm like, kind of of like really intrigued what they have to say, because there's a lot of parallels drawn.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, it's the same thing that happens to me if I'm talking to, you know, the times that I've had a chance to have a conversation with, say, a Paul McCartney. I don't. I don't walk away thinking, what the hell was that? He. He made no music while we spoke. You know, and it's the same thing, because the first time I met Steve Martin, years and years and years ago, when I was a writer on Saturday Night Live, I went into the meeting to pitch him ideas, thinking he's gonna have an arrow through his head. Like 1978, 1979. Yeah, he's gonna, you know, there's part of you that thinks that's who you're gonna be talking to. Yeah, exactly. That it would be that era. That's the era that I first. That's how I first experienced Steve Martin. And then you walk in and it's this very, very serious. Serious is a heart attack guy who's trying to figure out what he's going to do that week. Talking in a very soft spoken voice. And he can access that, but he's not going to do that right now. So.

[Charlie Puth]

That's fascinating.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah. I am me all the time. I guess if you see me at Chipotle, I'm not going to be how you see me on the Internet. So I guess it's the same thing. I have days where I'm super quiet and I don't want to be like, music, music, music.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are days where it's the last thing you probably like. I don't want to do that today.

[Charlie Puth]

I just want to watch Doug. You ever seen Doug Demuro on cars? Carsandvids.com I don't think I know that.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, I don't know that.

[Charlie Puth]

Just this super niche community of car lovers of the modern era. Like, if I can tell you all you need to know about the Saturn view.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, wow. Cars of the modern era.

[Sona Movsessian]

Era.

[Charlie Puth]

Cars of the modern era. Every time. Anything below 70s. Like, I don't know what a 79 Corvette is supposed to look like, right? But I can tell you everything about the, the, the, the, the Scion xb.

[Conan O'Brien]

The Leaf. Do you know anything about the Leaf on Leaf?

[Charlie Puth]

Like I, I love even phones. I like that.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love that guy just going on and on about, okay, I got this Nissan Leaf and you know it runs, runs at 40 watts. I bumped it up to 41. This sucker will do out of the gate. It'll do 35 miles per hour at top speed.

[Charlie Puth]

I do know the statistics. If you're. It's a four straight four cylinder, but it's.

[Conan O'Brien]

You got a four under that hood in that Leaf. What do you got in that Leaf you got a four.

[Charlie Puth]

Like, do you know what I sit about, I think about when my wife's trying to watch her heated rivalries and whatever.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh my God.

[Charlie Puth]

I lay, I lay down and think, why did the yukon Denali in 2002. I'm serious. Why did GMC have this beautiful insignia on this chrome door handle on the yukon Denali in 2002? And then in the 2003 model year they got rid of it.

[Conan O'Brien]

This is crazy. You're gonna say I'm making this up. I have my notes here for the conversation. Denali right here. Why did they lose it on the door right here? So to believe me. So to believe. Did you believe me? That's insane.

[Sona Movsessian]

I Know, I'm very.

[Conan O'Brien]

Why would I go into an interview with Charlie Poo to talk about the Denali?

[Charlie Puth]

I just brought it up.

[Sona Movsessian]

I didn't know. I thought maybe he mentioned it. I don't know.

[Charlie Puth]

To be fair, I thought he was serious too.

[Sona Movsessian]

Thank you, Charlie.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thank. I have a way of committing.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm gonna say something because we ran out of time a while ago, and I'm been keeping it going because I just.

[Charlie Puth]

Having too much fun.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was having so much fun. I'm shocked you haven't been here before. And our booker, Paula Davis, I went to her a while ago and I said, let's get Charlie Puth on. I love him. I watch his tiktoks. And she said, no, not gonna do it. Not gonna do it. And I kept pushing her, and she's like, no, no, no. She was like, no, we're not gonna do it. We're gonna do it. And I said, why? Why can't we have Charlie on the show? And she said, cause you can't handle the puth.

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh, I gotta go. I gotta go. I can't do this anymore. I gotta go.

[Charlie Puth]

Oh, God.

[Conan O'Brien]

I gotta go. End of the podcast.

[Sona Movsessian]

Oh, yeah, it's done. It was good working with you. That was awful.

[Charlie Puth]

Jesus Christ.

[Sona Movsessian]

You can't handle the poo.

[Conan O'Brien]

You can't handle the poo.

[Sona Movsessian]

Listen, I am so mad. I thought.

[Charlie Puth]

I thought it was just because I was just recently taken seriously, like, a year ago. I feel like people are finally, like, actually taking me serious.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, it's because it lines up so perfectly with you can't handle the truth. And what I took was. Hold on, let me explain. He's explaining. Let me explain. Let me explain. And then you're laughing. Last name's Poof. And so I took this iconic.

[Charlie Puth]

What's this?

[Conan O'Brien]

You can't give me a thumbs down on this.

[Sona Movsessian]

Explaining it. That's the problem is that now we're

[Conan O'Brien]

going, imagine I'm Jack Nicholson.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah, it's.

[Conan O'Brien]

You can't handle the poof. No, that's a bad.

[Sona Movsessian]

You did it.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a great, great bit.

[Charlie Puth]

Did it end? I don't understand.

[Sona Movsessian]

No, I think we're done.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, no, no, it didn't. This is. This is how I wish we had started. And I wish this had happened in the middle and then at the end as the resolution.

[Charlie Puth]

I see.

[Conan O'Brien]

Charlie, that cup has been empty for a while. You're just looking for a way out.

[Charlie Puth]

Lukewarm erewhon bone broth.

[Sona Movsessian]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

What are you talking about? You are a Phenomenally talented young fellow. And I'm. I just knew because I also, I see your sense of humor too. When I watch your videos, I'm like, okay, this guy does what I wish I could do and he's funny. And you're a massive success.

[Charlie Puth]

So I was really happy, Trip to me, because you are such a massive, massive success. And like having grown up watching you and it's like now it's, it's just so full.

[Conan O'Brien]

But none of us, none of that stuff. I don't know, I don't think of myself that, like, this is me being as honest as I think I can be, which is. I have been incredibly lucky. And I. I love getting to do this thing, whatever it is. I won't put a name to it. But what I love about these conversations is trying to get to something that I don't think I'm ever gonna crack, which is there's this thing we're all trying to figure out. And now you're gonna go off and. I know exactly what you're talking about. You're gonna go off and play these amazing shows for sold out, massive venues, but you're still trying to see Portland's

[Charlie Puth]

not get sold out.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, Portland is always tricky.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yeah, but they're, you know, they're drinking kombucha.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly.

[Charlie Puth]

They want to hear we don't talk anymore. Some do.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Listen, first of all, you've. Now we're not going to get Portland sold out by alienating Portland. So I'm just going to say I can't imagine a better place for you to play than Portland. It's going to sound amazing.

[Charlie Puth]

I mean, great donuts, great people.

[Conan O'Brien]

They can't handle the booth. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. They can't handle the.

[Sona Movsessian]

We don't have to go back to that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, we just went back to a quip. That was canc. That was cancerous.

[Sona Movsessian]

Yes, it was.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was. I mean, it's toxic.

[Sona Movsessian]

It was. It was. You should apologize.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Charlie Puth]

Is there any other musician you look up to other than me? Of course.

[Conan O'Brien]

I look up to anyone that can make a living doing it. I think that's absolutely stunning. And that sounds. But I'm just amazed when, When I mean. And my goal getting into this was if I can pay my rent thinking of funny little things or being weird, wouldn't that be the most amazing thing in the world? That was my idea in 1985. And it's still my idea. You know, it's like still like, that is. It's not going to get better than that. Scale of things can change, but the actual mission doesn't change. So I'm just. I'm blown away when. I mean, I like to sit and talk to people. If I walk into a hotel lobby and someone's playing the piano there, I'm just, I think, think that must just be amazing to be able to sit and play the piano. And you've got a. You know, you've got a standing gig and people come and they listen to you and you get some free drinks. That's the part I would want.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah, but you can. When. And I used to. That used to be one of my odd jobs, is I would go, well, not odd. I would play the piano at. At bars you can change the room with, you know, when you start playing Piano Man. Yeah, I won't play any more of it, but yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

God, these laws are destroying. They're destroying podcasts. They are. Billy Joel needs that 35 bucks.

[Charlie Puth]

No, but you would hear, like, you'd hear Rodney Dangerfield sit down with Johnny Carson and he would just, like, the audience would change just based on the diction and, like, his delivery.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. And the expectations. So, like, Buddy Hackett or Rodney Dangerfield or any of these amazing comedians would sit down with Johnny Carson when I was a kid, and my father and I and anyone else in the room would just be like, oh, this is gonna be good. And that's what happens when you start to hear some of these iconic songs. When anyone's playing their hit. There's the. Oh, my God, everyone knows what's coming. And they're also delighted and excited for it, which is.

[Charlie Puth]

Right. Except if you completely change the arrangement and make it not what it's supposed to sound like.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. The bossa nova version of Piano Man.

[Charlie Puth]

That's great artistic selfishness. But even Billy Joel, as he says, he's. And I've opened up for him a couple times. One show got rained out, but he's. I asked him, do you have.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let me guess. Portland.

[Charlie Puth]

No, Pittsburgh.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, 10.

[Sona Movsessian]

It.

[Charlie Puth]

He even said he, like, I. I asked him, do you get tired of playing Piano Man? And he was like, I do. But the crowd's reaction is worth everything. Wow, that's. You don't quote me exactly. But that's what I remember him saying to me in 20 say to you,

[Conan O'Brien]

now get out there and open this show. I'm not paying you to talk to me.

[Charlie Puth]

Well, the show. The show got rained out. And the show got rained out, and I was all Bummed out. He came in. They were like, Mr. Joel wants to. Billy wants to come in and, you know, offer his apologies. And he came in and he shrugged his shoulders. He was like, what do you want me to do? And we took a picture.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love a guy that thinks he needs to apologize for the weather. I'm going to start doing that. Sorry, guys. Eclipse. What can I do?

[Charlie Puth]

He didn't have to do that.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was nice. He's nice. He was very nice. Listen, an absolute delight. Congratulations. You are a new dad. Which is the best thing you'll ever do.

[Charlie Puth]

Shout out to Jude Puth.

[Conan O'Brien]

Jude. What a cool name.

[Charlie Puth]

Hey, Jude. That's what he played during the. During his birth.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's during the birth.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a long enough song.

[Charlie Puth]

Anesthesiologist. All the doctors were. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's so cool.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah. Now every time I sing it to him, he goes. That and sing by the Carpenters. He loves when the kids come in on the second verse.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's so cool. My daughter's name is Sandman. Cause we were listening to Metallica, and that was fucked up. But you know what? It turns out I can.

[Charlie Puth]

Sandman o'. Brien.

[Conan O'Brien]

Just be careful. This is a public service. Be careful what you're listening to when a child is born. Cause it can go any different way. You know. Delight having you here, Charlie, really. And best of luck on this tour. You're gonna keep. Kill it.

[Charlie Puth]

Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

No more diving through the Internet. Not necessary. You don't need it. You're way past that. Long time ago.

[Charlie Puth]

I agree.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right.

[Charlie Puth]

My first interview with my permanent retainer. I just got it, like, Right?

[Conan O'Brien]

You just got a permanent retainer? Is it behind your teeth?

[Charlie Puth]

It's behind my teeth. No, it's right behind these four front teeth here.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Charlie Puth]

I don't know why.

[Conan O'Brien]

Why would you tell me that at all?

[Charlie Puth]

Because it's a personal victory for me. I was kind of, like, nervous that I was going to talk weird, but.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, it was perfect.

[Charlie Puth]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And now I have. This is my first interview with an empty col. Just. There's nothing completely clean down there. Completely empty colon. Is that something that we should be sharing? I mean, completely. Completely. Haven't eaten in six days.

[Sona Movsessian]

Okay, we got it just.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then right before the podcast.

[Sona Movsessian]

My God.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. I'm an awful person, Charlie. I apologize to you, to your team, but thank you so much for being here. This was so cool. Really.

[Charlie Puth]

Thank you for having me. Thank you, everybody. Buddy,

[Matt Gourley]

Conan o' Brien needs a friend with Conan o' Brien, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley Produced by me, Matt Gourley Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow Theme song by the White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising Producer is Aaron Blair and our Associate Talent Producer is Jennifer. Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign [e-mail] Conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O' Brien needs a Friend. Wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.