Ezra Koenig

Summary

Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend – Episode Featuring Ezra Koenig

Date Released: [Insert Release Date]

Host: Team Coco & Earwolf
Guest: Ezra Koenig, Lead Vocalist and Guitarist of Vampire Weekend
Duration: Approximately 76 minutes
Transcript Provided: Yes

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1. Introduction and Banter (00:00 – 08:50)

The episode begins with Conan engaging in playful banter with his co-hosts, Matt Gourley and Sona Movsesian. They discuss personal milestones, such as Matt's birthday and Sona’s Armenian Christmas celebrations. The conversation humorously delves into cultural misunderstandings and the blending of different holiday traditions.

Notable Quote:

• Conan: "[00:49] I don’t like when people do both [Christmas celebrations]."
  Context: Conan jokes about the confusion arising from celebrating multiple Christmas traditions simultaneously.

2. Guest Introduction and Early Connection (08:50 – 14:33)

Conan warmly introduces Ezra Koenig, reminiscing about the first time he became a fan of Vampire Weekend. He shares memories of hearing their debut album while transitioning out of his role on a late-night show and highlights the meaningful connection formed when Vampire Weekend performed at Radio City Music Hall alongside Conan during his tour.

Notable Quote:

• Conan: "[14:33] That’s the nicest thing anyone’s ever said to me."
  Context: Conan expresses heartfelt appreciation for Ezra’s acknowledgment of being a fan.

3. Songwriting Process and Musical Influences (14:33 – 27:07)

The discussion shifts to Ezra’s songwriting journey. Ezra recounts writing his first song, "Bad Birthday Party," around the age of eight or nine, influenced by his mother’s role as a therapist. He elaborates on the importance of starting young and the prolific songwriting necessary to develop as a musician.

Notable Quotes:

• Ezra: "[19:20] The first song I ever wrote was called Bad Birthday Party."
  Context: Describing his early foray into songwriting.

• Conan: "[21:33] To me, the key seems to be to start young and do it a lot."
  Context: Emphasizing the importance of early and frequent creative practice.

4. Balancing Creativity and Industry Pressures (27:07 – 35:06)

Ezra discusses the pressures of maintaining momentum after a successful debut album. He reflects on the challenges of producing a second album while balancing a full-time job as an 8th-grade English teacher. The conversation touches on the concept of the "sophomore slump" and the anxiety of meeting both personal and industry expectations.

Notable Quote:

• Ezra: "[25:38] I was obsessed with that."
  Context: Highlighting his personal drive to quickly release a second album to capitalize on their initial success.

• Conan: "[33:29] I think I am, definitely."
  Context: Conan acknowledges his own struggles with balancing creativity and personal happiness, relating it to Ezra’s experiences.

5. Inspirations and Influential Figures (35:06 – 46:02)

The conversation shifts to Ezra’s inspirations, mentioning iconic figures like Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen. Ezra admires Dylan’s resilience and Cohen’s spiritual journey, finding inspiration in artists who take significant time off to regenerate creatively. Conan relates by discussing his own inspirations from comedy legends like Steve Martin and Bob Newhart.

Notable Quotes:

• Ezra: "[37:40] Bob Dylan in the mid-80s was releasing his least loved albums."
  Context: Reflecting on Dylan’s challenging periods and perseverance.

• Conan: "[40:33] Bob Newhart, who just passed, was so funny throughout his career."
  Context: Sharing admiration for enduring comedic talent.

6. Creative Processes and Collaboration (46:02 – 55:04)

Ezra delves into his songwriting process, emphasizing the importance of melodies and maintaining a running list of phrases to spark creativity. The discussion includes anecdotes about collaborating with other artists and the challenges of balancing artistic integrity with commercial demands.

Notable Quotes:

• Ezra: "[46:39] Sometimes you have to wait for it. But yeah, that's the most fundamental thing."
  Context: Explaining his reliance on strong melodic hooks in songwriting.

• Conan: "[46:59] Without, like getting too technical, what’s your process?"
  Context: Seeking deeper insights into Ezra’s creative methodology.

7. Alternate Histories and Humor (55:04 – 74:56)

In a humorous segment, Conan and his co-hosts engage in creating alternate historical timelines. This playful exchange includes fabricated scenarios such as Armenian celebrations causing unexpected events and fictionalized versions of historical figures. The banter highlights the group’s chemistry and comedic timing.

Notable Quotes:

• Conan: "[68:00] This is a first of all, apologies to all the amazing heroes who gave up their lives."
  Context: Playfully addressing the fictional alternate history scenario.

• Matt: "[69:02] This is why I want to censor my phone."
  Context: Reacting humorously to the ongoing alternate history riff.

8. Closing Remarks and Future Directions (74:56 – End)

The episode wraps up with final jokes and light-hearted comments about the collaborative effort in creating the podcast. While the conversation remains playful, the mutual respect and admiration between Conan and Ezra are evident.

Notable Quote:

• Conan: "[75:22] I’m getting you a desk, by the way. It’s coming tomorrow."
  Context: Continuing the humorous tone as they conclude the episode.

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Key Insights and Conclusions

• Early Start in Music: Ezra Koenig emphasizes the significance of beginning songwriting at a young age, coupled with consistent practice, to develop as a musician.

• Balancing Career and Creativity: Both Conan and Ezra discuss the challenges of maintaining creative output while managing other professional responsibilities, highlighting the need for balance and personal well-being.

• Inspirational Figures: The conversation underscores the admiration for resilient and evolving artists like Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen, who navigate their careers with perseverance and adaptability.

• Creative Process: Ezra’s approach to songwriting—focusing on melodies and maintaining a list of creative phrases—offers valuable insights into the artistic process.

• Humor and Chemistry: The episode showcases the strong rapport between Conan and his co-hosts, blending meaningful discussion with humor and playful banter.

Overall, this episode provides an engaging exploration of Ezra Koenig’s musical journey, creative processes, and the interplay between personal passion and industry pressures, all wrapped in Conan O’Brien’s signature humor and warmth.

Transcript

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[Conan O'Brien]

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[Ezra Koenig]

Hi, my name is Ezra Koenig and I feel cautiously optimistic about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think that's wise.

[Sona Movsesian]

Fall is here Hear the l Back.

[Ezra Koenig]

To school Ring the bell Brand new.

[Sona Movsesian]

Shoes Walk and loose Climb the fence Books and pens I can tell that we are gonna be friends.

[Conan O'Brien]

I can tell that we are going to need friends. Hey there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Fine program today. Matt Gorley joining us. Hi. Yeah, good to see you. And Sona obsession. And a happy birthday to you.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

You. You had your birthday yesterday.

[Matt Gourley]

Yesterday. Yeah. But you know, I celebrate all month. But that's okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. What's that all about?

[Matt Gourley]

I just. I like it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. I also get confused by your Christmas celebrations because you celebrate real Christmas but also Armenian Christmas.

[Matt Gourley]

Or ours is real Christmas, yours is fake Christmas.

[Conan O'Brien]

What I just said, and I wasn't even trying to be funny, was very offensive.

[Matt Gourley]

It was.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I. And I apologize.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah. Because I shouldn't have said real Christmas. I'm sure people think of the Christmas on December 25th and you guys celebrate it when. January 6th. Yeah, I'm. I'm sure that.

[Matt Gourley]

I know now January 6th is like for something else.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, yes, of course. Well, there's a theory that the fracas, I call it fracas at the Capitol occurred and I later lon looked it up. Everyone participating in that. It was 98% Armenians.

[Matt Gourley]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

And that they were rushing. They were rushing the capital to give gifts to each other.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, I thought to get the trees left over.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly. It was just a misunderstanding. It was an Armenian Christmas, and people. It just happened to be the capital was in the way.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, okay. Okay. There were a lot of good sales.

[Conan O'Brien]

They were on their way to celebrate Armenian Christmas.

[Matt Gourley]

That's right.

[Conan O'Brien]

And it was like, God, we could go around the capital. Let's go through it. Listen.

[Matt Gourley]

All right. My birthday was yesterday.

[Conan O'Brien]

Your birthday was yesterday.

[Sona Movsesian]

So you celebrate all month, but is everyone else obligated to celebrate your birthday all month?

[Conan O'Brien]

She always did this when she was my assistant. She would keep bringing up, it's my birthday month.

[Matt Gourley]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

And it was kind of a nightmare.

[Matt Gourley]

It's not a nightmare. Isn't it just a nice way to see people and just be like, hey, it's.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, you wanted. It was like extortion.

[Matt Gourley]

You wanted this.

[Sona Movsesian]

It's not a slippery slope where you start going, it's my birthday year, and suddenly it's eternally your birthday.

[Matt Gourley]

Wouldn't that be great?

[Sona Movsesian]

Well, don't let me give you any ideas.

[Matt Gourley]

And then it turns into my birthday year. I just like seeing people. And especially now, it's harder for me to see people because I have family obligations. And so I like to use it as an excuse to, like, go to dinner.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's nice.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, sure.

[Matt Gourley]

Everybody should do it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let's get back to Armenian Christmas now.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, God, no.

[Conan O'Brien]

No. Armenian Christmas. Armenian is the oldest sect of Christianity. Is that correct?

[Matt Gourley]

Armenians are the first to adopt it as their national religion.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's right.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. That's the correct way to say it. I'm glad. I'm glad I educated you. You didn't educate me pretty much. You're welcome.

[Matt Gourley]

I knew that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let me teach you more about Armenia.

[Matt Gourley]

Worked for you. You're going to teach me about Armenia?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

What? No, you're not.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think I know more about it than you.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

You might know more about the Soviet shares.

[Conan O'Brien]

Armenian. Oh, really? Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

You're kidding.

[Conan O'Brien]

Dr. Kevorkian.

[Matt Gourley]

Why do you always do Dr. Kevorkian?

[Conan O'Brien]

Those are your two big ones. Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

No, let's not do the Armenian list again.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Here's the thing I will say to you. You do both, though, right? You do December 25th. That doesn't. I don't like when people do both. What?

[Sona Movsesian]

Pick one.

[Conan O'Brien]

Pick one.

[Matt Gourley]

Why? I'm an Armenian American.

[Sona Movsesian]

You're taking ours away from us?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. I don't. Then I feel like. But guess what? I Believe that's. That's true.

[Matt Gourley]

It's a really us versus them mentality.

[Sona Movsesian]

No, I didn't start this.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I'm tired of immigrants coming into this country and taking Christmas gifts from me.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, Eduardo, Eduardo.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's just the way it is. You. If you come into this country and you celebrate more than one Christmas, we've got a problem.

[Ezra Koenig]

What if we take the gifts you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Guys didn't even want?

[Matt Gourley]

Yes. Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh. Oh, my God. This is. Man, the metaphors here are blowing my mind.

[Sona Movsesian]

Because there is a lot of re gifting at Christmas for white elephants and things.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Why is it called a white elephant?

[Conan O'Brien]

This is really blowing my mind. So you're saying that you guys are taking the gifts that we don't want, but then bitching about it. Right. All right.

[Sona Movsesian]

White elephant. White Christmas.

[Matt Gourley]

Yes.

[Sona Movsesian]

Holy shit.

[Matt Gourley]

Why?

[Sona Movsesian]

Wait, but why is it January 6th? Was Jesus born on January 6th? I know.

[Matt Gourley]

December 25th isn't really the right way, right?

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't know, Eduardo. You are married, Your wife is Armenian. Correct. And in Mexican American culture, or Mexican culture Also, January 6th is celebrated because.

[Ezra Koenig]

Of the Three Kings Day.

[Matt Gourley]

Three Kings Day?

[Sona Movsesian]

The Georgia.

[Conan O'Brien]

So it's possible you're really tangling this thing up. More than needs to be. So January 6th. It's also Elvis's birthday, so technically it's four kings.

[Sona Movsesian]

No, Elvis's birthday is January 8th.

[Conan O'Brien]

It is?

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's my dad's birthday, too.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Wait, your dad is born on January 7th? Wait, you. Wait a minute, Blay. You waited to interject. You wanted to make sure you had something good, and you jumped in with Elvis birthday and you were wrong.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's fucking crazy. I'm sorry. You're like a guy that waited outside a house in case there's trouble. It caught fire, other people put it out, and then long after the fire was out, you came rushing in and threw fluffernutter all over the place.

[Ezra Koenig]

And I set the fire myself because.

[Conan O'Brien]

I didn't need dinner. Jack.

[Matt Gourley]

Imagine.

[Conan O'Brien]

And his birthday is actually January 8th. Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Not the 6th. Or 7th?

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, sorry, I thought you said the 7th.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's. What's his dad's. Can we straighten one thing out?

[Sona Movsesian]

No, I think everything's very clear.

[Conan O'Brien]

January 6th. We've determined that January 6th was when the Capitol was attacked. It was an insurrection. But also Armenian Christmas. Yes, but also Three Kings Day. Correct. Is it possible that a lot of the crowd, and I'm not making excuses, but is it possible that many people in the crowd were excited about Armenian Christmas and Three Kings Day and should we look into this? And then they were on their way to some big festivity and fucking capital's in the way. Is that possible? And, yes, there's ways to go around it, but oftentimes I found it's better to smash doors and go through.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, you do.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then later, on the left is like, this is an insurrection. Excuse me. Poll the crowd. How many were celebrating Three Kings Day?

[Matt Gourley]

They arrested a lot of people who were there, and nobody mentioned Armenian Christmas.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I think after the fact, you'd. You know what?

[Matt Gourley]

You're embarrassed.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, probably embarrassed.

[Sona Movsesian]

And you don't want to smirch it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, you don't want to be smirch it.

[Matt Gourley]

What if someone was like, it's Elvis's birthday.

[Conan O'Brien]

Maybe they were early for Elvis's birthday, which is on the 8th, you know. Oh, no, guess what? There were, like, nine people. The guy wearing the buffalo horn hat, the bison dude. The bison dude. He was there celebrating Elvis's birthday. And like most insane people wearing a bison hat, he was two days off.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yeah. And two people there were celebrating my dad's birthday.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. I just think the Justice Department should really figure out how much of the crowd was celebrating other stuff.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And just got confused.

[Matt Gourley]

Or Blay's birthday, too. Maybe they were there for Blay's birthday.

[Conan O'Brien]

When is your birthday? January 7th.

[Matt Gourley]

Were you there?

[Conan O'Brien]

You know what? There is usually a big crowd in Washington that gathers the day before Blay's birthday. And then they quickly remember that they're off by a day, and so they try to rush to where Blay is. And oftentimes the capital's in the way. I just think this is an alternate. It should be an alternate history show where we explore other possibilities.

[Sona Movsesian]

I like this.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sona Movsesian]

In fact, stay tuned for the third act segment of this episode. And we'll be back with another alternate historical possibility.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Booth was just angry that Lincoln was blocking his view of what was happening in the theater. Down in front of. Sir, he's tall. Sir, remove that hat, sir. I'll remove that hat when I'm no longer president, you whippersnapper. If only I had a right derringer. Blam. Alternate history.

[Matt Gourley]

Is that your Lincoln impression?

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I tell you, four scoring seven years ago. What?

[Matt Gourley]

That's not that kind of sounds.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know what? I will tell you. Many people don't understand what Lincoln really sounded like. He had a high, reedy voice. Many people give him a four score in seven years.

[Matt Gourley]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, he did not have that voice. He was described at the time.

[Matt Gourley]

I like the other one.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know, but I'm being an. My accurate. Lincoln is wee.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, no, no, no, no.

[Conan O'Brien]

Not cool here.

[Matt Gourley]

No, don't do that.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'll take off my hat, Booth, once you settle down. But I'm trying to enjoy my American cousin, see?

[Matt Gourley]

I mean, why are you wearing a hat in the theater, though? Too right?

[Conan O'Brien]

He didn't take it off. It was a thing with Lincoln.

[Sona Movsesian]

He really didn't.

[Conan O'Brien]

He was a real prick about it. Yeah. He refused. Now. What are you talking about?

[Sona Movsesian]

I don't know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Nothing here is real.

[Sona Movsesian]

Let me just remap the thread of this conversation.

[Conan O'Brien]

I made up that he refused to take his hat off. Of course he took his hat off. We'll be in the Smithsonian right now with a big hole in it.

[Sona Movsesian]

But the Armenians going through the capital to get to Armenian Christmas Israel.

[Conan O'Brien]

I just think we should investigate.

[Sona Movsesian]

Okay?

[Conan O'Brien]

That's all I'm saying.

[Matt Gourley]

Wait, but what is his.

[Sona Movsesian]

It was high and reedy.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was high and reedy.

[Matt Gourley]

That's real.

[Conan O'Brien]

Come on, man.

[Sona Movsesian]

Didn't Daniel Day Lewis kind of play it that way?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, Daniel Day Lewis gave him the real voice that they think he had. And a lot of theater goers were like, what? He doesn't sound like James Earl Jones. And that's not what Lincoln sounded like. So we actually did get a little historical fact out of this, despite my best attempts. And now you're convinced that Booth shot Lincoln because he didn't take his stovepipe hat off and it gave Booth an obstructed view?

[Sona Movsesian]

I'm only not convinced because you keyed me in that that was false. So thank you. I now know the truth.

[Matt Gourley]

But that would have been warranted.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Terrible. A terrible segment. A segment spoken like a true Christmas denial. Sometimes I. I think someone should bust into this room right now and shoot me with a derringer, because that is the only way to end this.

[Sona Movsesian]

I volunteer.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, you know what? And you're a guy that would own a derringer. I got it at the Turret. You know what?

[Matt Gourley]

You got a bit of a boothy vibe to you.

[Conan O'Brien]

You do, you do.

[Matt Gourley]

You're a little booze.

[Conan O'Brien]

What are you talking about?

[Sona Movsesian]

The greatest actor of all time.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's a gu. That would own a derringer. Can you imagine a guy busting a guy busting it, and he has. Oh, I got it at a local flea market. I do not own a derringer.

[Sona Movsesian]

Singular.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, okay, first of all, you own derring eye.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yes, I do. One on Each leg garter.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love this. Someone busting into your house and you're like, don't worry, honey. And you're putting a ball into a little derringer and powder and you're packing it in.

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, no, those are cartridge based guns.

[Matt Gourley]

Little boothy.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right, little boothy around. He's a little boofy around the eyes. Okay, that's fair. Let's get into it. My guest today, lead vocalist and guitarist for the Grammy Award winning band, Vampire Weekend. Their fifth album, Only God Was Above Us was released earlier this year. Thrilled. He's here with us today. Extremely talented, Ezra Koenig. Welcome. I remember very well the first time I met you would have been when I was towards the end of my original show, the late night show in New York. I was very excited because your guys, Vampire Weekend's first album had come out and it just hit me over the head in the best way. And I have very clear memories of, you know, being nervous about, I gotta move out to la. There's a lot of unknown stuff coming my way. I'm transitioning out of this job I've had for 16 years. And then your guys album came along and listening to those songs and walking around the Upper west side of New York and just being so happy. I just loved the music so much. And then heard that you guys were booked to come on the show and I was excited the way a fan would be excited, you know, not yes, yes.

[Matt Gourley]

You know, that's how you normally are.

[Conan O'Brien]

Normally I'm like, Mr. Burns, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is rock and roll. We'll keep those, those youngsters happy. Kenig, is it? Hey, is that the name Ezra? Eh, how do I know that name? Anyway, I was very, I was very happy. And you guys came on and again in that situation, we didn't really get to talk, right? But then go through that whole tonight show madness and I go on tour. Sona Joyce was with me for the tour. Yeah. And I forget where we were, but I heard that you guys were willing to come. And I think I know for a fact that you did Walcott at Radio City. And I was so excited about that. When you guys said, yeah, would you play Walcott with us? I was. Everyone kept trying to talk to me about the comedy that we were going to be doing. And I was like, shut up, shut up, shut up. I'd be playing with Vampire Weekend. I gotta get this right. You know, you're like, oh, yeah, but we're gonna really turn you down a lot. So you don't Fuck it up. But anyway, that was a big deal for us.

[Ezra Koenig]

It was very meaningful to us, too.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, we've grown up. We're huge fans of yours, and you really are like, our target demographic.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.

[Ezra Koenig]

You specifically. Yes. Conan O'Brien. No. But even a guy from Boston walking around the Upper west side. When I think about the early albums and, like, the imagery and how the art kind of like love of the East coast or forget about love, Just heritage. Like east coast band.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. But also some of the references to. Well, especially in Walcott, you know, you talk about.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. Cape Cod.

[Conan O'Brien]

Cape Cod. And I mean, I so distinctly remember listening to that album and getting hooked on you guys and then have been a fan ever since and so happy that you could come in. And I also got to hang with you. Our mutual friend, Rashida. Your.

[Ezra Koenig]

We're more than friends.

[Conan O'Brien]

But you met Rashida. Yes. Mutual friend. Mutual friend.

[Sona Movsesian]

You're both married to her. What's going on here?

[Matt Gourley]

Mutual wife.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. But I remember you guys came over once. We sat out on the deck. We were looking at the beach. I think, at the time, my wife and I and kids had this place in Carp, and you guys came by Carpinteria, California, and it was on the water. And you guys came over, and you introduced me to White Claw. I remember you and Rashida brought White Claw, and I didn't know what it.

[Ezra Koenig]

Was, and was that a big mistake? You've been pounding. Pounding the claw.

[Sona Movsesian]

No, I can't get them off.

[Conan O'Brien]

I need my White Claw. I've been in rehab 11 times, each.

[Sona Movsesian]

For a different flavor.

[Conan O'Brien]

But remember, you guys, you came up the steps.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, that's right.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was this really small house. And you and Rashido came up the steps, and you went, we brought White Claw. And I thought, what's White Claw? And you went, try it. And I thought it was going to be. And what I remembered is, you need to drink a lot of White Claws before you get a buzz. That's what I remember mostly.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. It's like a beer. Maybe even lighter than a little lighter beer.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think it's less alcohol than a beer.

[Ezra Koenig]

It's funny. I remember that we brought White Claw, but it's not like we drink it often. We must have. I think at the time, I was particularly interested in White Claw because that was the summer that there was this stat going around the music industry and probably the beverage industry that White Claw had outsold beer at Lollapalooza that summer. So I think I was like, well, that's interesting. I'm, like, curious about it. So we must have been talking more about White Claw and. Yeah, I don't know. That was probably the last time we drank White Claw.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was afraid that you did that because you thought Rashida said, we're going to go see Conan O'Brien and you thought, oh, then we need to bring alcohol. That it was some weird Irish slam. Because you also brought potatoes.

[Ezra Koenig]

Right.

[Matt Gourley]

And Lucky Charms.

[Conan O'Brien]

And Lucky Charms. Corned beef pants made of burlap and a shovel. You know what?

[Ezra Koenig]

That was just. It was just White Claw season. And I think we just all wanted to get in on the fun.

[Sona Movsesian]

There was that one summer that was a White Claw. They talk about brat summer. That there was like a White Claw summer.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. So what was it? And by the way, we are not getting any money from White Claw. What was it?

[Matt Gourley]

But we'll take it.

[Conan O'Brien]

We'll take it. Or some free White Claw. But no, did kids like it? Because it had less. I think it had less alcohol.

[Sona Movsesian]

Slightly alcoholic seltzer.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

I think it's low calorie. Tastes great. Oh, and also, since then there's.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I remember you kept saying, conan, you should really drink low calorie drinks. Yeah. If you're going to stay on television. I remember that very clearly.

[Ezra Koenig]

That's why we brought it. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure it's still huge. And. And there are. There are a lot of competitors now.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. So.

[Ezra Koenig]

So whether or not White Claw is still on top. I. I pray they are. Because. Because. But, but whether or not White Claw is still on top, they clearly tapped into a need in the marketplace, which now everybody from Topo Chico.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Ezra Koenig]

To any sparkling water you can think of has. Has entered.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Well, I love that your interest in music expands to what will people be drinking who are in the. That's cool. That it's not just the writing and the singing and producing and the playing of the music, but you're also thinking about, what are they drinking? What are they.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, no, I'm very. I'm very into beverages and beverage history and seating arrangements. Yeah. Things of that nature.

[Conan O'Brien]

You study the seating before you play anywhere. Make sure it's.

[Ezra Koenig]

It's just right.

[Sona Movsesian]

Who are the ushers tonight? Is it that one guy?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I don't like that guy.

[Ezra Koenig]

It's got to be perfect.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't want him on the aisle. I was thinking about this today because I know that Your mom. When you're growing up, your mom's a therapist.

[Ezra Koenig]

That's right.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I was thinking, if you're. And you started writing songs at a very young age, if you're writing songs, lyrics, and your mom's a therapist, there's a potential trap there where the mom is reading. How can your mom not help but read into the lyrics?

[Ezra Koenig]

Right, Yeah, I suppose that's true.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. And the first song I ever wrote was called Bad Birthday Party. And it was.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's true. Right.

[Ezra Koenig]

Well. And she always. She threw. She threw great birthday parties for her children. I think maybe just as a kid, that was like, one of the worst things I could think of was having a bad birthday party. It's still. Even now, as an adult, it seems pretty sad for a kid to have, like, a very disappointing birthday.

[Conan O'Brien]

How old were you when you wrote that?

[Ezra Koenig]

Thinking like eight or nine.

[Conan O'Brien]

So were you consciously trying to write songs or. It just kind of happened.

[Ezra Koenig]

I was consciously trying to write songs. You know, once I started taking piano lessons and I knew how to, like, you know, the rudiments of, like, writing out music, I was interested in kind of, like writing songs.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, that is. I mean, to me, the key seems to be to start young and do it a lot, which is true of a lot of things, but to start at a young age and write a lot of songs before you get to some that you want to hang on to.

[Ezra Koenig]

No, that's very true. And I did write a lot of songs, and I always had bands from, like, middle school on. So I remember being 13, and we had a band that played at the seventh grade graduation. We played another original song called the Beast from the Sea, which was kind of. It was kind of like a B52's pastiche. Not particularly original, but. Yeah, but they're always songs. And I can kind of remember that sitting down at the piano and writing the beginning of Oxford, comma was kind of the first time I felt like, okay, I entered a slightly different phase.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. And they always say that someone who writes a really good novel has to have, like, six bad novels in their desk drawer. I mean, you need to go through that process of. I remember reading some interview with Paul McCartney. He said, yeah, because he started trying to write songs and he was young. And they said, well, what was an example of an early one you wrote? And he went thinking of linking. He was like, I thought that was kind of a cool, like, you know, thinking and linking up. So. Thinking of linking. And he said, it was terrible. But anyway, it's interesting because you start playing the piano, when do you switch over to guitar? Is that happening around the same time or.

[Ezra Koenig]

No, I did a few years on piano. Maybe when I was like 12 or 13. I got a guitar for my birthday and I've always been a little better at piano. But with guitar I could try to start writing some riffs and stuff. And then. Yeah, ever since then, I always had bounce.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was always obsessed with my left hand making just the right shape that's going to make the sound. And much later on I learned right hand is really important, you know, and yours just goes like a hummingbird on a bunch of. You know, it's. I love that.

[Ezra Koenig]

Well, you know, I think I was just talking about this with a friend. I think part of it was people forget because we were all born in like the mid-80s. So we were coming of age right when there was this very brief surf boom in the 90s, which you probably remember, you know, like the Pulp Fiction soundtrack. Led a bunch of bands.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right.

[Ezra Koenig]

And so yeah, ever since then, like the first songs I ever wanted to learn on electric guitar were like Miserloo and Pipeline and you know, stuff like that. So ever since then, all I ever wanted to do was have a little bit of reverb and go.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yep.

[Ezra Koenig]

And still that's kind of like one of my go tos.

[Conan O'Brien]

But I thought it was interesting even the first time I heard you guys. As I said on that first album hearing, there's a musical term for it, which I don't know. Cause I'm a caveman, but playing in like triplets or something, whatever that is, it's so fast and it almost sounds sometimes like a balalaika or something. It's got this kind of fast.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. Some people call that double picking. Just going back and forth, up and down. Yeah, yeah. And I like that in the. I like that kind of. It's also very like Zorba the Greek.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. It can also fun times.

[Conan O'Brien]

When I'm listening to your guys stuff, I start smashing plates.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you, you can, right? Aren't you half Greek? Quarter, quarter Quarter Greek.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, quarter Greek. And yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, so then more like just up. Kind of a depressed uppe.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, so not a full uppa.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, so yeah, uppa, just uppa. One of the things that interests me is that.

[Matt Gourley]

I'm sorry, you keep saying uppa. It's oppa.

[Conan O'Brien]

It depends on where you're from.

[Matt Gourley]

Okay. All right.

[Conan O'Brien]

As most idiots say, I've heard it both ways. That's how I can cover for any mistake, I've heard it both ways.

[Matt Gourley]

All right.

[Conan O'Brien]

One of the things that interested me was always is that you guys come out of the gate with this great album which you had essentially just made yourself. You made that album yourself while you were all working full time jobs.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

So it's not like you were signed and brought into this slick situation.

[Ezra Koenig]

No. And in fact we. We experimented with remixing some of the songs to see like, oh, is there a. Are we missing some kind of professionalism or something? But it just didn't sound as good. So. Yeah, it's really not. The version that came out is not particularly different than how it sounded when we were selling CDRs at our shows.

[Conan O'Brien]

So you come out with that. It seemed to me like you were very interested in not having to be any slack coming out with more material very quickly, like. And that was a pressure. Did that come from you? Did you feel this pressure, like, we've just got to keep this going?

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I was obsessed because also because I'd been working full time. I was a public school teacher, 8th grade English in New York. And it felt like a big deal to go, you know, tell the principal, I'm going to go on tour with the band. So let's say that's probably June, June that year. I taught a full year and I'm like, I'm going tour this summer so I don't think I'm gonna come back. So it felt a little bit high stakes to have this like brief moment of success that felt like, let's keep this going before I go. Have to go back to being a teacher or something. So, yeah, I put a lot of pressure on myself and the whole band to try to get our second album out quickly. I was obsessed with that.

[Conan O'Brien]

And you really didn't wanna go back to teaching. How awful were those kids?

[Ezra Koenig]

I have a lot of affection for the kids, but it was, yeah, it was a very difficult job. And also I just felt like we had this rare opportunity so, you know.

[Conan O'Brien]

No one can begrudge you wanting to be.

[Sona Movsesian]

Well, 30 kids came.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Ah, gee, he's a huge star.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. So I, yeah, there was definitely felt like we had to keep things going. And then also, you know, the putting out your first album, in many ways it was a big success. But then of course you're dealing with criticism and haters for the first time. So then there's also that part of you that felt like you wanted to continue to show more dimensions of the band as quickly as possible.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. Because our first album, it's very. It was the perfect first album for us. But, you know, it was also so kind of youthful and collegiate and kind of, like, cheery. And it always felt like such a great starting point. But, yeah, I did also. I was anxious to show, like, different shades of the band.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And people. Well, music critics especially, and everybody loves to say that's the sophomore slump, you know, And Lorne Michaels told me many times that they did the first year of Saturday Night live, which is October 75 to summer of 76, you know, June or whatever, and then they break for the summer. And he said every season after that, like, the second season, all he heard was not as good as the first. Like, what are. The one with the Muppets, you know? No, what do you mean? Steve Martin doing King Tuts, like the third or fourth season, you know.

[Ezra Koenig]

Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

But that's all he heard. And then, of course, it was not as good as, you know, 1975 to 1980. Then it was not as good as when. And it was just. It's something that follows you, which is what I prefer is you've never been good and you never will be and you never will be. And I'm like, dad, we've had this conversation. Sona, when you take a big trip with the family, and I know that you love to travel, and your kids are getting old enough now where they like to travel, too.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, that's true.

[Conan O'Brien]

Who looks after the house?

[Matt Gourley]

That's the thing. Nobody. And so I've actually been toying with the idea of maybe, you know, putting my house up on Airbnb, making some extra cash, having someone there.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's like you're hosting people.

[Matt Gourley]

Exactly.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's like you're getting paid to travel. You can use the money that you get from putting your house up on Airbnb to help finance your trip.

[Matt Gourley]

Exactly. And you know what? There's people there that are looking after my relics.

[Conan O'Brien]

You have. A lot of people don't know this, but Sona has a lot of ancient Greek relics, Etruscan relics. You have a lot of sculpture from the Assyrian empire. Sona has billions and billions of dollars worth of ancient, ancient artifacts that have never even been looked at by archaeologists.

[Matt Gourley]

They should all be in a museum.

[Conan O'Brien]

They really should be.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

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That is actually pretty sweet.

[Conan O'Brien]

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[Conan O'Brien]

So there's this pressure to come out. You do three albums I think in a relatively short time.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, within five years.

[Conan O'Brien]

Within five years. Which is, you know, by today's standards that's moving, that's moving quickly.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. Not as fast as the Beatles, but when I look, which in some ways is what something people always say Were like, well, you know, they made, you know, it was six months between the White album and, you know, whatever. But yeah, it felt fast and then. And also for me, I kind of remember, like I turned 30 when we were finishing up the tour for the third album. And, you know, there were so many reasons why I think a band's first three albums tend to have, like. There's just something really special about the first three. You can look through so many bands where that represents a unit, a trilogy, whatever. Our first record deal was a three album deal. So there was so many ways in which after that intense five plus a couple year period of touring, it felt like, okay, turning 30, that was like a speed run through my 20s. The band is now in a different place and. Yeah, time for a break and then.

[Conan O'Brien]

Six years, six and a half years.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

What did you do during that time? I did account for your time, young man.

[Ezra Koenig]

I mean, I want to see receipts.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, guilty.

[Ezra Koenig]

You know, I did. I did all sorts of stuff, you know, working on music, trying a few different things. It's a little hard to remember, but I remember thinking that six years felt like nothing. And I still kind of feel that way. And in some ways, when I look back, I feel like we did it right, which is like, yeah, in your 20s, do it as quickly. Like, push yourself to go as quickly as possible. But that pace into your 30s, let alone your 40s, is insane. Yeah, I can't relate to it. I don't want it. You know, I. I'm so aware that.

[Conan O'Brien]

So much of stuff that I've done is because I had to. Just because I was part of a machine where you. Now, you need to do another one and then you have to do this and then you have to do that and that. There was a. If I did shows when I felt like I might have done like five shows, I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's something that some. And I don't know if you've had that. I'm sure you've had that creatively, where it's just. Creativity can happen in so many strange ways. But sometimes the good thing comes really easily. Or sometimes it. Sometimes it comes when. God damn it, we need another song.

[Ezra Koenig]

No, totally. And I've actually. I struggle with it a bit just because I have. I used to. When the ideas wouldn't come or something, I used to feel more anxious, like, it's important, we got to get this album going. And then I. I learned a little more how to calm down and how to Chill more. And then. And then it stopped mattering to me that much how quickly things came, which is very, like, positive for my life, but not. Not positive for the output. So I'm a little bit now, like, it comes when it comes. We'll see. I've never regretted the amount of time between albums, like, looking back now. So now, you know, we started this in our early 20s. This year I turned 40. It's a bit of a milestone, looking backwards. And I think, all right, we have five albums out. If I'd been like, a little more of a nut and probably gone harder and pushed harder, maybe we'd have seven albums out. Eight. What difference does it make?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, you've got an amazing body of work. You've got a great body of work and you can keep adding to it. But you're right. I mean, first of all, I could take. I think I'm getting better at chilling.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, you are.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think I am, definitely. But I had a major problem with it for a long time.

[Ezra Koenig]

Well, you had a crazy, crazy job.

[Conan O'Brien]

For hell, way too long. Yeah, years and years and years of craziness and having kids just changes you. It changes you so much. And then there's a while where you think, wait a minute, is there be creative versus be happy? And then it turns out, well, no, that's ridiculous. There's a way to be. There's a way to do both. It can just come in so many different forms.

[Ezra Koenig]

Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

But when I'm not creative or I do work I don't like, now I can blame my children.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's why you had them.

[Conan O'Brien]

You robbed me of what could have been genius. You should do that. You should yell sometimes. Yeah, just yell. You've robbed me of a great song.

[Ezra Koenig]

I mean, there's also something funny about songs too. Like, I'm not trying to be too negative, but I've always looked at other. I think there's comedians who've done great work late into their life, and directors and novelists and stuff. The number of people who recorded their best albums in their 40s or 50s or 60s, the consensus would be there's not a lot of people who have done that. So there's also some part of me that feels like, well, if you only get a certain number of songs in this life, like, really wait for them, spread them out, and, you know, don't. Don't rush through it, you know?

[Conan O'Brien]

Right, right. Who. Who are the people that. That you look to? You know, whether musicians, artists, people that you. Careers you look at and think, okay, that There. Do you have people in mind sometimes?

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, sure. I mean, it's. Last time I saw Bob Dylan here in LA at the Pantages Theater and he was touring his last album, which had that. I don't know if you guys heard the 17 minute JFK song murder most Foul.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I did hear that.

[Ezra Koenig]

And I thought that was just such a monumental achievement. And I thought, wow, this guy's. This is the best popular music ever recorded by an 80 year old. He's pushing into territory we've never seen before. So that was inspiring. But then, if I'm honest, I've always been really excited about, like another famous songwriter, of course, is Leonard Cohen. He. He had cool albums up until the end of his life, but I really think one of the reasons I was always the most interested in him was because he had that period where he went up Mount Baldy, you know, to study with his Zen teacher for like seven years. And I. And then I started to realize that I've always been so interested in people who take serious time off or people who kind of disappear for a while. In some ways those are like the most inspirational stories because sometimes they come back and do great work like Leonard Cohen, and then sometimes they don't. And even that's kind of cool. I find that inspiring too, just to know that it's possible.

[Conan O'Brien]

So you're telling me to go away.

[Ezra Koenig]

Just like seven years.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'll be dead. I haven't got seven years. No, but I do understand completely what you're saying. And I always think about. I think about people in comedy. I think about that probably a lot more. And I think about the people that have done consistently good work and, you know, Steve Martin, Marty Short are doing. I mean, they're both faster than and funnier than most people I'm ever gonna meet. And they've got a bunch of years on me. They don't want me to say how many, but they're 115 years old individually, not added up. And I always look to those people. And Bob Newhart, who just passed, was so funny throughout his career, starting in 1960 and going through all these different permutations. He was so smart and so funny and so quick right up to the end of his life. And I lived to be, I believe, 96 and just passed away about two months ago. And I think, I look to those people and I think, no, there is a way to do it. I think we live in a society where people think they have to be trending all the time and they have to be Discussed all the time. And I think. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. People can have. They can have a little peak and then they can go away for a while and think and regenerate and then come up with something else. I get that. I like that.

[Ezra Koenig]

I mean, it's like when there's a We Are the World documentary. That was great. A lot of people watched it, really enjoyed it. And you see this moment, Bob Dylan in the mid-80s, that a lot of people remarked on. He seems so nervous. And maybe part of it is he felt like, does my voice sound good on this song? Whatever. But also part of it is that Bob Dylan in the mid-80s was releasing his least loved albums. Yeah, they always have some. A few great songs on them. There's like some classic stuff, but. But either way, he was. It probably felt a little bit random for him. You know, a guy who in the 60s and 70s, crushed it so hard in the 80s, still trying to, like, figure out how he could relate to the sounds of the day. And there he was surrounded by these people who were breaking new ground for how big and influential a pop star could be. Bruce Springsteen in the 80s, Michael Jackson, whatever. So of course that was like a weird moment for him in his life. And yet, you know, he consistently, I don't know, he never really went away. He seems to like to work. He released tours a lot, releases albums. But, you know, he just like kept on trucking. And eventually he was back to releasing more loved albums. But then you go back and you're like, that was cool work. I don't know what it felt like for him. Looked a little uncomfortable in that. In the documentary.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I think in the documentary too, he's around these people who can belt.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

And of course, that's not Bob Dylan's thing. And so he's working with people who are, you know, kind of saying, like, you don't really hit this. And he's like, I don't really do that, you know, and. But you're right, you can take a snapshot of anybody at, you know, a moment in their career and it doesn't tell you the whole story, you know, And I think it's why I'm always kind of fascinated. It sounds like I'm making a joke and I'm actually not. I find obituaries to be one of the most interesting parts of the newspaper. Because they tell the whole story. Like there's no more story to this person. This person has passed and they're gone. And sometimes if it's a fascinating person. I read an obituary once and it was Stalin's daughter. And she had lived this. I mean, she's born, she's living in the Kremlin, Stalin's her dad, she lives through all that. But then after he dies, she goes off and she becomes like a jet setter in London in the 60s. But then she ends up at the end of her life, after 15 different chapters, she ends up being this little old lady who's living in like a small hut in Montana. And you. Montana? Yeah, literally in Montana, someplace, like in the plains. And you look at the whole arc of her career and it has like 75 different crazy, improbable chapters. And I thought, that's a life I love. But you could take any one moment from it and not see the whole story. If you just checked in on that one moment.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, totally.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I think what you're talking about is for musicians, you can check in on them at a moment and not see, not get the right picture of what they're up to or where they're going.

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, yeah, of course. And then also the timing is everything. So you release an album, you do your best, you hope that people like it and judge it on its merits. But of course, like when our first album came out, of course, I'm very proud of that album. I think it's a great album. People still discover it today. But that was also a little bit of a moment where people were interested in bands from New York. You know, it was also this moment when the major labels were a little bit confused. I always think of it as this brief historical period between Napster and Spotify, which kids today will never know about. It was a really brief window. So it wasn't the 90s where people were buying CDs hand over fist. Nor was it like the Empire Strikes Back moment where the major labels were kind of like, oh, we actually know how to do this.

[Conan O'Brien]

We figured it out.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, it was a weird moment. And people were interested in, you know, what they called indie and, you know, so again, I'm not taking anything away. I'm very proud of the album. But it's good timing, you know, if that. People always used to ask us questions like, does it ever bum you out that people are buying less CDs? Pretend it's like 2008, CD cells are way down. Do you wish you'd came out in 1998? And I just remember thinking, I have no idea what. How we would have fit in in 1998. It could have been way worse. Actually, yeah. Why would I assume that in 1998, we would have been like Matchbox 20 or something for all I know. In 1998, it never would have gotten off the ground because, so anyway, these.

[Conan O'Brien]

Moments, you guys would have had huge hair in the 80s, like be dancing with a snake, you know.

[Ezra Koenig]

Right. We might have been even more indie in 1998. And so anyway, that's all to say that, like, there are these bigger moments, you know, the forces of reality that come and go and there's headwinds and tailwinds and at some point, you know, that's so much bigger than you.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Because I was very crazily lucky to get into what I was doing in television in 93. But TV audiences start eroding rapidly about seven years into when I'm working on a big network and it's becoming more about cable and everything. And so you could have people say to me, don't you wish you had been. Come along started in like 1958? And then you could have. You're like, this is this dumb question. Because then I wouldn't get to do what I'm doing now, or we wouldn't have videos online. So there was a time, if you took a snapshot of me in the late 2000s, where you'd say, well, this is just a terrible time to be trying to do this, be a late night talk show host, because it's becoming whatever. If it's becoming less and less relevant, our audiences are getting smaller. But no, it was the perfect time because you could, you know, make it your own. So I understand exactly what you're saying.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. And in that window, you. Yeah. Was there another time? Because you got to do like the. In the 90s, the sense of humor you had. Would you have been allowed to do that in the.

[Conan O'Brien]

I wasn't really allowed to do it in the 90s. People I worked were not happy. There was a movement, get me out of there plan for a while. But yeah, it all. Like I say, you have to. You're dealt the hand you're dealt. And you. And I think we've both been really fortunate. You know, I think about. Yes, you're right. There was a moment there. I think you're crazily talented and would have found your way in any era. I always. One of the things that stands out about you, Ezra, is your ability to write a melody, I think is very rare. You write some beautiful melodic turns throughout your music. And I've always. It catches me and Always reminds me how hard that is. I think that's a very difficult thing to do and it's a rare gift.

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, well, thanks. I mean, that's also, you know, I wait until I have a song where I feel like it's got a melodic hook. And that's probably one of those things that, especially in pop music, like, you can get pretty sophisticated with chords and stuff, but usually the people want something simple and memorable. And a lot of my favorite music is like that. And yeah, sometimes I can overthink stuff about what the production is supposed to be like, or the references or the lyrics and stuff. But in some ways it's just either you have a good melody or you don't. And sometimes you got to wait for it. But yeah, that's the most fundamental thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

Without, like getting too technical. What's your process? Because your lyrics are so good and it's crazy to say they're literate, but they are. They're very smart and they're really well crafted. And I think, okay, are you sitting down and writing? Do you get the melody first? Do you write that or can it happen in any order? Well, I just basically want to know how to do this, and I'm not leaving until you tell me.

[Ezra Koenig]

The truth is, I really don't know. And that's why I'm not prolific. That's why even when there were times where, you know, once or twice I wrote something that ended up being part of somebody else's thing. Like once there was this demo I made with Diplo. It turned into Beyonce song. So a lot of people were like, oh, do you want to do like more pop writing? And like, just deep down it was kind of an exciting idea. But deep down I just had this feeling like I can't. I don't know if I can go subject some pop star to just me sitting there and be like, now we wait.

[Conan O'Brien]

So.

[Ezra Koenig]

Because I don't have a lot of good ideas, like the certain songs, Oxford comma. I sat down at the piano at my parents house and I started who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma? And I was like, oh, it sounds like something.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

And then since then, it's a good question. I'm trying to figure it out too, because I don't want there to be 10 years between every album. But the one thing I know that kind of works for me is when I have no inspiration or something, I just keep a running list of phrases. I come across words on my phone. So that way if I sit down at the piano or the guitar, and I start playing something, and nothing comes to mind. I can always scan that list. And, like, there's a song on the new album called Prep School Gangsters. There's a New York magazine cover story from the 90s. It's kind of like a classic cover. And the phrase was always so, like, funny and evocative to me. So, you know, once I've started working on something, I looked through List Prep School Gangsters, and it started to come together. So that's the only way I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Do you ever think, okay, what if, God forbid, you put all of your money into a bad theme restaurant and it's all gone? And it's. And I'm going to pitch you a theme restaurant when we're done here, and I really need you to put all your money into it. Okay, but do you ever think to yourself, what if I had to take this ability that you have, this talent I have, and I just had to make money to put food on the table? And, I mean, I had people saying, like, okay, Ezra, Wendy's wants a jingle. They want a jingle. And it's a triple patty, and the meat hasn't been frozen, and they're using a new kind of cheese that's really fantastic called Lundlade. You gotta give us something. And you're like, damn it, I want braces for my kids. I've gotta do.

[Ezra Koenig]

I have to?

[Conan O'Brien]

I have to. Do you ever think if you were.

[Sona Movsesian]

In that position, I think you understand rock music.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, I do. And it can be. Have you lit a lot of jingles? Have.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. I guess I'd like to think that if, when push came to shove, I can make Wendy's proud. And I'd like to think that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Let's get to Wendy's. I don't know if you're listening.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah. Cause in some ways, maybe over the last 16 years, the thing that I've tried to protect and grow is my kind of artistic indie sensibility, because that's what I've needed. Um. Whereas in a. In a. In an alternate lifetime, if I could have, like, suppressed that and turned it into something more utilitarian, like, yeah, I like a challenge. Once the director of the new Peter Rabbit movie asked me to write a song, and I was like, okay, let me, like, really try to think about what it means to write something for kids. And. And the truth is, a lot of times when I've thought about what another job I'd like besides music, it has. It's been a little bit like marketing in the. In the Food and beverage space. So I really would like to put this together.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

White Claw, if you're listening, Wendy's.

[Conan O'Brien]

I would never guess that your side hustle would. I just think the marketing of food and beverage is something that we need to get into. And you're talking to the rest of the band. Guys, listen up. No, I bring it up because people talk about the great music of the 60s, and obviously there was so much of it. What doesn't get mentioned a lot is I do think some of the best music of the 60s was television themes. There are incredible, incredible television themes that came from 60s and 70s television. There's a lot of terrible ones, but the good ones are fantastic. They're just great scores. And you think that's people that were like, all right, what are we doing today? You know? Okay, what's it called? It's called Mission Impossible. It's called Hawaii Five O. It's called the Wild, Wild West. It's called the Flint. All right, let's go. Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

And they had to just churn it out.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's called F Troop and you. And you think I'm kidding. Listen to those songs. They're fucking crazily good. They're fantastic.

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, yeah, totally. And there's something inspiring about that. And also the songwriters of the 20s and 30s, that image of a couple people in sweater vests sitting at the piano with the.

[Conan O'Brien]

Grinding it out.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, grinding it out. There is something really appealing about Tim Pen Alley. Yeah. So I'd like to think that they're. You know, what's tough is just like. It's just the other side of the coin from what I've been doing. So maybe I've never really known how to kind of do both especially.

[Conan O'Brien]

Clearly, you don't have to. And this is not something I'm suggesting, But it is funny how I'm thinking.

[Ezra Koenig]

About it really seriously.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, but what's interesting to me is when I started my career in 1985 with my writing partner Greg Daniels, we were put in a room on this TV show. It was called Not Necessarily the News. And I remembered early on they just wanted little sight gags from us, little visual, like, non sight gags that they could put music over that people could perform. And we would sit there and we would just grind on these things. And our desks faced each other like we were just two bankers grinding away. I went off to do all the weird stuff I've done, and Greg went off to do the American Office and Parks and Recreation and King of the Hill. And he's just, you know, been this machine turning out all this great television. But we started out doing this very. Hey, you. You know, literally, like, I. I would picture someone just throwing a sandwich into the room, right, and then get back to work and. But I. I don't dislike that part of my career, but it was, write some jokes, write some gags. Come on, you two. We'll shut the door. And at the end of the week, you better give us 75 gags. All right, we're on it. And that's what it was. And so I've always been kind of fascinated by that side of things. And so I'd like to reach out. I'd like to reach out to Wendy's on your behalf.

[Ezra Koenig]

No, I love that. And even just that visual of you guys just at the desk. I've always wanted a little more deskiness in my world. At some point, I became a little more mystical, and I felt like Vampire Weekend's Its own thing. Tell me when it wants the song as opposed to what you're talking about. But I've always loved. In fact, there's, you know, the French band Phoenix, So I know them very well, and they were working on their last album a few years ago, and I happened to be in Paris. I went to visit them at the studio for that album. The studio was the Louvre.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, my God.

[Ezra Koenig]

I mean, oh, my God, it sounds like you're just, like, making up French stuff. But they somehow they had a connection. And maybe because it was like the tail end of COVID they were connections.

[Conan O'Brien]

They were, hey, you want the Louvre? I got the Louvre. You want the Louvre.

[Ezra Koenig]

So literally, you'd go to the Louvre and you would enter the arts and decoration department, and somebody from the museum, like, took me up. I remember they were like, that's Napoleon's chair. So I walked past Napoleon's chair, and then they were just in a room. Anyway, I'd never actually seen them working on an album. And they had a desk in the middle of the room with, like, four laptops, as if they would just, like, sit down at the desk. And there was something about. I'd never seen anything quite like it, even just the. Just the spatially. Normally in a studio, you know, everybody's kind of looking at the screen, and so you're probably sitting. You know, when I work with, like, Ariel, who's the main producer I work with, you know, his back is to me. Maybe I sidle up behind him a little bit. But these are just four guys at their laptops at a desk for all you know, it could have been like working on like a takeout app or something. But there's something.

[Conan O'Brien]

But I remember at the time.

[Ezra Koenig]

What.

[Conan O'Brien]

They do also have a successful insurance company.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

But I just love that vision of just the university, them sitting down at a desk. Like, what are we doing? The same idea of just a couple people throwing around ideas.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, I. Well, first of all, we can get. I'm going to make sure. I'm going to talk to Rashida. We're getting you a desk.

[Ezra Koenig]

Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

I can get you an iron desk from the 50s. Oh, great. And I wanted to ask you about this because I know that you once compared your discography, your body of work to weed. Specifically certain albums having a different ratio of, you know, THC to cbd.

[Ezra Koenig]

Thb. That's right.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And I wanted to bring Sona in on this.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, geez.

[Conan O'Brien]

Just because you're right. Yeah. You can help me understand this. But so explain to me, like when you talk about your first album, Sake, and then maybe comparing it to Only God Was Above Us, your last album, what are we talking about here? How would you describe them in terms of ratio, the weed ratio to cbd.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, well, the first album would probably be high cbd and the last album would be very like high thc. It's a little. Well, this is my. You might have more experience than me, but when.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, Sona has more experience than you.

[Matt Gourley]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. But we've had nine interventions for Sona. Yeah. And she always leaves them and goes and gets.

[Matt Gourley]

I get high while you're doing this.

[Conan O'Brien]

You're like, uh huh. Chomp it up.

[Matt Gourley]

Just eating edibles.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

I'm definitely not an expert. Probably whenever I did that interview that might have just been. I was just trying to think of anything that has ratio. I probably should have said chocolate and could have done. Could have done cocoa versus sugar. That would have had like less.

[Conan O'Brien]

You could have done something worse. So you know what I mean?

[Ezra Koenig]

But once I tried to make a rubric where I was trying to, you know, just anything to try to like, think about where the band's going. And I've always believed every album should have a very different vibe. And so I've definitely thought about them on being on the spectrum of kind of like from preppy to goth. So that was a useful, you know, which is a useful rubric. And maybe a little bit like outdoorsy versus indoorsy. I don't know. So, yeah, when I think of the first album, it's extremely sunny and it presents as sunny. And it presents as young and it presents as fun, and I think every. And I do think there's, like, elements of darkness in there and maybe.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

But still, you know, it's about how it presents. So when I think of the current album, in many ways, it kind of feels like the. The inverse of the first album. It's also a kind of, like, reflective New York album, but it probably has, you know, the inverse THC to CBD ratio.

[Conan O'Brien]

I've had to figure out the ratio on this podcast, you know. Oh, do you know what I mean? Are we. Are we a mellow? Are we a mellow. Do we mellow you out this podcast or do we. Anyone can weigh in here.

[Sona Movsesian]

Like, what, the hybrid version of.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, what are we? Yeah. Is this.

[Matt Gourley]

I think we're mostly thc. I think it's just, like, what is that?

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't even know what that means. We're tripping.

[Matt Gourley]

THC is what gets you high.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Matt Gourley]

CBD is what, like, makes you. Let's, like, you know, CBD ointment. If you have, like, an ache, like, it's not. Yeah. It doesn't work.

[Conan O'Brien]

You also partake of the. Of the ganja. There's a little meth in there.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, there's a little meth.

[Matt Gourley]

Maybe that's why we're very methy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, very methy.

[Matt Gourley]

I think we are very methy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Meaning.

[Matt Gourley]

So we're not a tweaky cousin who doesn't have teeth.

[Conan O'Brien]

Do you? When you say we're very methy, I think I'm. I know I'm methy.

[Matt Gourley]

I think if you're looking at the podcasting industry as a whole. We're the methy cousin.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's Sona's cbd, Goarly's thc.

[Ezra Koenig]

And you're the meth.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. We're the rapper. We're the rapper. I've talked about that. Yeah, you're a knife. We're the papers. You're a rapping paper. No, I've talked about this. I had a doctor tell me that he, you know, let's talk about your cocaine use. And I was like, I've never done cocaine in my life. And he said, you've got to be honest with me. I'm your doctor now. He just. Just took that from the way I behave.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Ezra Koenig]

Not based on your blood work.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, no. Your demeanor, I've never done. Yeah. And then after Hot ones, everyone. The hot ones were. People just think, oh, I don't know what he's doing. He's probably having A, you know, meth enema every night. You seem like you're able to chill, and you like to chill. Like you're. You're able to relax. You're able to.

[Ezra Koenig]

I've had to. I've had to learn how to do it a little bit. I said in the interview when we were first releasing the album that some people seemed to enjoy and some people made fun of me for. But I said, my passion in life is chilling, and it really is. And I kind of even remember as. When the band started getting going and things got kind of intense even back then, I remember thinking, I hope there's a time later in my life where I can chill more.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm still waiting on that. Yeah, I'm working on it. But maybe you'll be my. I want you, Ezra, to be my spirit animal.

[Sona Movsesian]

Maybe stop taking cocaine.

[Ezra Koenig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's just so good.

[Ezra Koenig]

I'll show up at your house with some white claw, and I'll show you how to chill. I really needed to learn how to. I bet you've never, in your adult life, had time. As much time off as I've had, which I have not.

[Conan O'Brien]

I haven't had wander around time, like. And that's not just because. I mean, my career has been a lot of it, but also kids and this wife with her demands. But I.

[Matt Gourley]

That's Liza.

[Conan O'Brien]

But, yeah, just demanding. Get over here. That's exactly how she sounds. She's the voice of the velociraptor in. Yeah, it's true. True story. And Spielberg was like, that's it, Liza, I love you. And people are laughing. Cause it's the exact opposite of who you are. But anyway, I would like to. I do aspire to that, too. And there are times when we shoot these. I do travel shows now. And when I shoot those, there'll be times where I'm like, in Dublin or, you know, or I'm in. I don't know, I'm in some foreign land. I'm in Norway. And I'm walking around and there's a little downtime, and I'm walking around, and I just love kind of being someone else. Do you know what I mean? You're just walking and you're going and getting a cup of coffee, and you're in a place you've never been before. You'll probably never be again.

[Ezra Koenig]

Oh, yeah. I have to do that all the time on tour. When Rashida was shooting that show in Japan, we lived there for six months. And so she's working a crazy TV schedule. Our son was in school. I didn't know that many people and I didn't particularly feel motivated to go set up a studio or something. So, yeah, I realized all you really need is, you know, obviously people need a little bit of, like, something to move towards in life. And I realized it could literally just be a coffee shop that's an hour and 20 minutes away. You walk there and get the coffee, read a little bit, walk back. That's most of the day. You know what I mean?

[Conan O'Brien]

What speed are you walking?

[Ezra Koenig]

There were so many. Well, I always felt like the classic day in Tokyo.

[Conan O'Brien]

Bet you're taking a step.

[Ezra Koenig]

I'd take our son to school and then I would walk to this old school vinyl bar. This one's from the 20s that only plays classical music called lion in Shibuya. I'd walk there. It was about, like, hour and a half walk. I would get there, have a coffee, read for an hour, and then maybe do something in the neighborhood. Then walk back so easily. That could turn into four and a half or five hours. Maybe you get back home. At that point, it's like 5pm At 5pm you're allowed to say, I did the day.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sure.

[Ezra Koenig]

You know, you start thinking about dinner and stuff like that. Oh, throw on going to the gym in the same day. That's the whole day. That sounds amazing. And it felt. And it did. But even then, even being somewhere, like, cool like Tokyo, like, you do that every single day. Like a little the novelty of being somewhere different wears off. And then you really just have to focus in on how much you really love chilling. You have to find the love.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, you're talking to the chill chums here. We know about chillin's. And, yeah, I think my lesson in life is that no matter, you can be in the most beautiful place in the world. You can be in Rome, you can be in Venice, you can be in Florence. And if you're there long enough, one day you're gonna go, I gotta get out of this dump. Right? Yeah, sure. With all this Italian food and beautiful art, I gotta get out of this dump. Ezra, I'm gonna let you go, but it's been really fun talking to you.

[Ezra Koenig]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm a fan. I'm an admirer.

[Ezra Koenig]

Likewise.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I love getting to talk to really cool creative people that do things I do not understand. So you're in that category. So we'll see you next time.

[Ezra Koenig]

See you next time.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm getting you a desk, by the way. It's coming tomorrow. Everyone's got the big villain in their life. You know who mine is?

[Matt Gourley]

Who?

[Conan O'Brien]

The person in my house that opens a vanilla yogurt a little bit, takes like one or two spoonfuls, and then closes that foil back up again.

[Matt Gourley]

This is so passive aggressive. Cause it's just you and your wife. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Gotcha, baby.

[Matt Gourley]

I need just a little for my smoothie.

[Conan O'Brien]

Take the whole thing and leave it alone. It's not that big. She's the villain in my life. How do you sleep at night, honey? Well, you already know the answer. Mattress Firm. Mattress Firm will find you the right bed with their wide selection of quality mattresses at every price. Rest easy with Mattress Firm's 120 night sleep trial. Love it or your money back. You can sleep on this for 120 nights and then say, maybe not and ship it back. I don't think so. You're going to love it. See a lower price somewhere else. Mattress Firm will match it with their low price guarantee. Wow. Get matched at Mattress Firm's Black Black Friday sale and sleep at night. The restrictions apply. See mattressfirm.com or store for details. And text Conan to 766-693 for 100 bucks off your next purchase at Mattress Firm Exclusion Supply. God, I love football season. I love the rituals of football.

[Matt Gourley]

Like what?

[Conan O'Brien]

Don't do that. What are you talking about? From defending your favorite team after a bad loss to obsessively checking your fantasy lineups. You know what I'm talking about. Football fandom is bigger than just Sundays. And you know who knows that? Miller Lite. Miller Lite knows the passion that comes with rooting for your team. That's why Miller Lite keeps it simple, undebatable, quality. You can try and debate it. That debate won't last long. You'll lose. Cause it's Miller Lite. You'll lose. Great taste. Only 96 calories. It's the beer that strips away everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most. Who says, hey, get me a beer with everything I don't need in it? Nobody. It's the original light beer since 1975. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Red Sox won the pennant that year.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Make your game time taste like Miller time. Tastes great. Less filling. Let it be both. Why fight? You know there's enough fighting in America.

[Matt Gourley]

You can have both. There's space for both.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thanks, Sona. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit millerlight.com conan or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories for 12 ounces. Fewer cals and carbs than premium regular beer.

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[Conan O'Brien]

Tax not included. Price may vary.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Not valid with any other offer, discount or combo.

[Sona Movsesian]

As teased in the intro to this episode. We thought we might do some alternate historical timelines, and Sona just pitched D Day as a nice little boat ride. What you call it?

[Matt Gourley]

Maybe they were. They thought, hey, we're gonna go on boats. It's a boat ride and.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, they're headed to the beach.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, they're going to the beach. Everybody. It's beach day.

[Conan O'Brien]

What happened was it was a. Everybody, it was a very large beach picnic, and then it got rowdy. Is that what you're saying?

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah. That's why most of them were in trunks and they had towels with them.

[Conan O'Brien]

They did not have trunks and towels.

[Matt Gourley]

Yes, they did. They did. That's what I heard.

[Conan O'Brien]

This is a first of all, apologies to all the amazing heroes who gave up their lives.

[Sona Movsesian]

Especially the ones that are still living and listening.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, that's true. We probably have a couple of. God, they would be almost 100 years old now.

[Matt Gourley]

Hearing's not.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, they'd be so mad. What? We weren't there for a goddamn beach vacation. So you're saying alternate history, Meaning? Because earlier we were talking about how. Just exploring other possibilities.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yeah, or maybe a better or easier explanation for why things went down the way they did.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Right, right.

[Sona Movsesian]

So we haven't discussed this. We're just going to.

[Matt Gourley]

All the things in my mind are so.

[Sona Movsesian]

Come on, don't censor.

[Matt Gourley]

Just go.

[Ezra Koenig]

Just go.

[Matt Gourley]

I mean, the Manson murders, they thought.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was their house, okay? What? They thought it was their house. And that's what you do when you walk into a house and other people are there. You start. Sona.

[Matt Gourley]

This is why I want to censor my phone.

[Sona Movsesian]

Maybe he was an Avon lady, okay?

[Conan O'Brien]

He was there to show them how to put on foundation. This isn't happening.

[Matt Gourley]

I'm telling you. I wanted to stop talking. You guys told me not to censor myself.

[Conan O'Brien]

I wanted you to stop talking 15 years ago.

[Matt Gourley]

I know, but this is. This was the whole. You did the whole Lincoln thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, but that's. It's been enough time.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, these are fresh.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, they're fresher. They're fresher.

[Sona Movsesian]

I went back to what's the time? What's the cutoff?

[Conan O'Brien]

I think the Cutoff should be 1865.

[Matt Gourley]

Oh, come on.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think anything later than that, or not involving death and murder.

[Matt Gourley]

I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a. You know what I mean? I mean, that's a tragedy. Those are tragedies you're talking about.

[Matt Gourley]

They're awful.

[Conan O'Brien]

They're terrible. And so I'm distancing myself from you and what you said.

[Matt Gourley]

I thought we were spitballing here. This is just. Just doing it, baby.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Sona Movsesian]

I want to alternate history for this.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, okay. Hey, I'm spitballing here, baby. Hey, Daddy. O. Yeah, there's an alternate universe where Sona is a comedy writer at snl. Hey, babies, I'm spitballing here. And Lauren's like, who is this? Who is this woman? Hey, just spitballing here, Laurence.

[Sona Movsesian]

Hey, Cat.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hey, Catio. Catio. What you mean Catio?

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, give us some more. Give us some more. But do them as that guy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

You know, just like all the ones that I have are not good, so we can't do that. Wait, we're talking alternate histories?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Matt Gourley]

Well, you know, first of all, I'm the one who knows the least about.

[Conan O'Brien]

This is why yours is the best.

[Matt Gourley]

I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Because yours are great.

[Matt Gourley]

Mine are all from this century. I don't. I mean, I can't go ahead.

[Conan O'Brien]

Like, the Salem witch trials or.

[Sona Movsesian]

That's good.

[Ezra Koenig]

Great Depression.

[Sona Movsesian]

Salem witch trials.

[Conan O'Brien]

Great Depression.

[Matt Gourley]

The Great Depression.

[Conan O'Brien]

Nobody told that. Alternate history of the Great Depression.

[Sona Movsesian]

It was.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think it was a soup craze. A hot.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

There we go.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think the Great Depression, sure, there was some financial distress, but suddenly, all across America, everybody really wanted hot soup, and they were willing to line up for it in the cold to get it. And the fashion trend was holes in your shoes. Holes in your shoes.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And also, people wanted to, like, I feel self conscious riding trains in the car. I want to be out where the luggage goes. I want to ride the rails. So that would be another alternate history is it was a soup craze that turned.

[Ezra Koenig]

That's good.

[Conan O'Brien]

And. Yeah. And people. People's pockets were stuffed with cash.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

But they were just lined up for soup. My dad lived through the Depression.

[Sona Movsesian]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

The real one.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, he was yeah, yeah. My dad's. What do you mean?

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, not the soup.

[Matt Gourley]

No, he didn't just want soup. He was like, in the Depression.

[Conan O'Brien]

He has told me everyone was fine. We just went soup crazy. He said we were nuts for this stuff. He said, it's like if you've got the thungries, if you're a little thirsty and a little hungry. And we said we were all doing the Charleston one minute. And then someone said, I need soup. And everybody went, soup, Nuts. Soup crazy.

[Sona Movsesian]

Soup to nuts.

[Conan O'Brien]

They all went. They all lined up. Oh, no. And when you're lined up for a long time, your clothes get beat up. People were like, we should probably put on our rich fur coats. Nah, we'll lose our place in line for soup so we look a little ratty.

[Sona Movsesian]

And then what ended it all? World War II came along and killed the soup craze.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. People just got over soup. Yeah, yeah. Then it was time. You know, the minute Glenn Miller started his tune started hitting them, everyone was like, the soup thing's over. Things come and go and everyone was into malteds, banana splits, phosphates. Phosphates. An egg cream.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

What a weird. An egg cream, never. What did they call it where you were? When I was a kid growing up in the Boston area, older people called a chocolate soda. They called it a frappe. F, R, A, P, P, E. I.

[Sona Movsesian]

Don'T think we had.

[Conan O'Brien]

Have you heard that?

[Matt Gourley]

I've never heard it in a modern sense. Like a Frappuccino.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, but they called it a frap. And I just remember thinking at the time, what's going on? And then I heard that in New York would call it an egg cream.

[Sona Movsesian]

I've heard of egg creams, but I don't think any of these really got west. We were too smart for that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sorry. You just called it a milkshake or something.

[Sona Movsesian]

Just called it what it was.

[Conan O'Brien]

And is it frappe or frappe?

[Matt Gourley]

Well, I think it's frappe because doesn't it have a little pew. Pew on top of it? Yeah. What is it called? Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, I did it.

[Matt Gourley]

But you guys knew what I was talking about, though, when I said that.

[Conan O'Brien]

There's a theory that in podcasts, it's all good. We're just riffing, and it's all good. And you know what? It's not.

[Sona Movsesian]

And yet it is.

[Conan O'Brien]

And it's not. And yet it is a bip. You.

[Matt Gourley]

No, we can't. We can't. This one can't go out.

[Sona Movsesian]

It's already gone out.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's Already gone out.

[Matt Gourley]

Okay.

[Sona Movsesian]

People are here. You forget how these are. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

So your fun riff about the murders by the Mansons is out.

[Matt Gourley]

I thought we were doing a rewriting of his. I'm the only one who came here with ideas.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, no, you didn't.

[Matt Gourley]

Sat back.

[Conan O'Brien]

You didn't come with ideas. First of all, you didn't come with ideas. You started. You said, I'm gonna riff, baby. Let's spitball. It's terrible.

[Matt Gourley]

I thought we were rewriting stuff.

[Sona Movsesian]

Yeah, we gotta end this. This can't go out.

[Conan O'Brien]

This can't go out. Yeah, this can't go out.

[Ezra Koenig]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

You're gonna send this one out, aren't you? Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ.

[Sona Movsesian]

I mean, I don't want to have to record a new segment and waste this awful.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Who am I introducing?

[Sona Movsesian]

This is not an intro.

[Conan O'Brien]

This isn't an intro.

[Sona Movsesian]

This is a segment. In fact, we even covered that. This is a segment because it's carrying on from the same episode.

[Conan O'Brien]

And. Wait, and what am I doing here?

[Sona Movsesian]

I don't know.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know what? I was on television. I was on television. But don't you know, that was as high as I thought I could get.

[Sona Movsesian]

People took you off television and literally put you in a padded room with a team of nurses in disguise as Poppy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Took me off television? They did. They put me in here.

[Sona Movsesian]

Notice you're drinking tea and soft, soft foods.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know.

[Sona Movsesian]

You're on a farm.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know. I've been put down.

[Matt Gourley]

I'm sorry.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm like an old horse. They said, come over here, Come over here. And then you cut to a bottle of Elmer's glue. Alternate Conan history.

[Ezra Koenig]

He's actually in a padded room, not in the podcast.

[Conan O'Brien]

I just. I. That's crazy. I'd have. And you gotta keep that in, too, because I have no idea how this podcast works or what we're doing.

[Sona Movsesian]

You don't need to worry about it.

[Matt Gourley]

Grand.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm a chimp. I'm a chimp. You guys put in a room, and when I throw my poop at the wall, you just. You record it, you sell it, you sell it. All right, well, hope you enjoyed. What is it, a podcast?

[Sona Movsesian]

Oh, I don't know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Radio show?

[Sona Movsesian]

Not at this point. It's.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. All right, well, that's the end of this. Seguru, baby.

[Sona Movsesian]

And now will you introduce Ezra Koenig?

[Conan O'Brien]

We just did that. I know, I know.

[Sona Movsesian]

I'm joking.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, Jesus. Funny joke. You can't joke with people of my vintage like that. Quickly. You've got to get out of here. The house is on fire. I'm on my way. Kidding. Aha. All right. Peace out.

[Sona Movsesian]

Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien Sonam of Session and Matt Gourlay produced by me, Matt Gourlay executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross and Nick Liao Theme song by the White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign [e-mail] Conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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[Conan O'Brien]

Price may vary.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

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[Conan O'Brien]

The new Sonic Queso Smasher is now available. You're going to want to try this. They made the Sonic Smasher you love because you do love your Sonic Smasher, don't you, Sonic?

[Matt Gourley]

I love Sonic smashes and I love queso.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, well, guess what? They took the Sonic Smasher you love and they added the new Creamy Queso in hand Smash patties. Made to order.

[Matt Gourley]

Just makes my brain explode.

[Conan O'Brien]

I just saw your brain explode and queso came out. The Sonic Queso smash is the perfect combination of Angus Patty's Creamy Queso jalapenos and a southwest aioli. Sounds like juicy goodness to me. All that's left to do is choose a double or a triple. Make mine two triples. That's a sex tuplet. The new Sonic Queso Smasher Live free. Eat Sonic.