Marc Maron Returns

Summary

Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend Episode: Marc Maron Returns
Release Date: July 17, 2025
Host: Conan O’Brien
Guest: Marc Maron

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Introduction

In this special episode of Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend, Conan reunites with comedian and podcast pioneer Marc Maron. The conversation delves into their longstanding relationship, the evolution of podcasting, and reflections on their careers in late-night television and comedy.

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A Serendipitous Reunion

Marc Maron kickstarts the episode by recounting a chance encounter at SiriusXM in New York City, where he unexpectedly met Conan in the lobby. This spontaneous meeting led to an impromptu conversation in the studio, setting the stage for their heartfelt discussion.

Marc Maron [01:46]: "It just was spur of the moment. It was podcasting, man. That’s right. Barebacking it, you know."

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The Genesis of Podcasting and Late Night Synergy

The duo reminisces about the early days of late-night television in the 1990s, highlighting how Conan’s innovative approach to podcasting paralleled their experiences on their respective shows. Marc credits Conan with pioneering the podcast format, which has since become a staple in the entertainment industry.

Marc Maron [05:04]: "You invented this. You were doing a podcast when no one knew what a podcast was and you invented it."

Conan reflects on his initial intentions behind starting his podcast, aiming for genuine conversations, which inadvertently became a framework for alienating audiences humorously.

Conan O'Brien [07:52]: "I think I generally come in hot and, you know, and I always knew that they didn't really know me, and I always wanted to."

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Collaborative Challenges and Triumphs

Discussing their collaborative efforts, Conan and Marc delve into the dynamics of late-night show production, specifically the challenges of engaging an audience and the role of producers in shaping comedic content. They share anecdotes about the often unpredictable nature of live television and the creative processes behind successful segments.

Conan O'Brien [11:38]: "What was crazy about it was like the way it worked was, you know, he'd pre-produced a segment."

Marc Maron [13:10]: "They all give him credit for making him look funny. Him or her make look funny. But they will invariably say, that fucking guy drove me crazy."

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Personal Reflections and Growth

As the conversation shifts to personal growth, both Conan and Marc discuss the impact of aging on their careers and personal lives. Marc humorously attributes his newfound wisdom to declining testosterone levels, while Conan contemplates the relaxation and authenticity that come with age.

Marc Maron [27:48]: "And I got, I thought that I had found like the, the true face of like spirituality. And I got into the flow and she said, no, no, no. Testosterone levels plummet in men."

Conan O'Brien [26:05]: "But the thing you're saying about aging is true. And I think what's a great thing for you is that to be able to loosen up and to be able to just have these conversations on your own terms."

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Humor in Daily Life and Technology

The hosts transition to lighter topics, discussing the pressures of maintaining humor in group texts and the challenges of keeping up with fast-paced, witty exchanges among fellow comedians.

Conan O'Brien [24:27]: "I just want to be out of this. It's too much pressure."

Marc Maron [25:18]: "It's when a blade is turning very slowly. I can get my hand on the blade and kind of get into the motion of it, but if it's spinning on puree. And I put my hand in. I'm going to get chopped to pieces."

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Closing Thoughts and Future Endeavors

In the concluding segment, Marc expresses deep appreciation for Conan’s influence on the podcasting landscape and their enduring friendship. Conan shares updates on his upcoming projects, including a new HBO special featuring Owen Wilson. The episode wraps up with mutual gratitude and the promise of future collaborations.

Marc Maron [28:34]: "But I'm very appreciative. But for years, I realized the trick in late night is to try and fig... The only way to be good at it is to metabolize it as something normal and then start acting like this is all normal."

Conan O'Brien [30:27]: "And I got Owen Wilson. I have an HBO special coming out later in the summer on HBO that I can't tell the title of yet."

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Conclusion

This heartfelt reunion between Conan O’Brien and Marc Maron offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the camaraderie and mutual respect that have shaped their careers. Through shared stories, humor, and genuine appreciation, the episode underscores the importance of friendships in navigating the ever-evolving landscape of entertainment.

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Notable Quotes:

• Marc Maron [05:04]: "You invented this. You were doing a podcast when no one knew what a podcast was and you invented it."

• Conan O'Brien [07:52]: "I think I generally come in hot and, you know, and I always knew that they didn't really know me, and I always wanted to."

• Marc Maron [27:48]: "Testosterone levels plummet in men."

• Conan O'Brien [26:05]: "But the thing you're saying about aging is true."

---

For those interested in exploring more episodes, consider subscribing to Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Conan O'Brien]

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[Marc Maron]

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[Conan O'Brien]

Hi, I'm Marc Maron and I feel happy about being Conan o' Brien's friend.

[Marc Maron]

Jesus. Said like a true hostage Said like a true hostage with a gun at his back. Fall is here Hear the yell Back to school Ring the bell Brand new shoes Walking loose Climb the fence Books and pens I can tell that we are gonna be friends.

[Conan O'Brien]

I can tell.

[Marc Maron]

That we are gonna be friends. Hey there and welcome to Conan o' Brien Needs a Friend. This is a little bit of a special episode. Let me give you some context. I was in New York City recently. I was at Sirius xm and I was doing some stuff over there and helping out. Just going over the books mostly. Yeah, I do a lot of accounting there. That's a bad use of Conan o' Brien because I really don't know accounting very well at all. The company is hemorrhaging. Hemorrhaging.

[Adam Sachs]

Risky.

[Marc Maron]

Very risky. I've cost them a fortune. But I was over at the building and I heard, hey, this gentleman is here, Marc Maron. I just saw him in the lobby and I had just read that Marc Maron was signing off from his podcast, the one that really started it all. And I said, I want to talk to Mark because we have a lot of history together. And so someone just walked down the hallway and said, hey, Mark. And he very graciously said, yes. And the next thing I know, I'm sitting In a studio with Marc Maron and we had a really nice hang. So this is my chat with Marc Maron that happened. It was kind of a. Was a happening, if you want to call it that. It just was spur of the moment.

[Adam Sachs]

That's podcasting, man.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's podcasting, man. That's right. Barebacking it, you know. Wait, no, Raw dogging. Raw dogging it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Raw dogging it. That's right. Just two podcasters. Raw dogging it. The mic. What's the matter?

[Adam Sachs]

No, no, you've got it. Keep going.

[Marc Maron]

You've got it.

[Adam Sachs]

No, no, don't.

[Marc Maron]

Adam is making. Adam is making these.

[Adam Sachs]

He's got it, right?

[Marc Maron]

Are you okay?

[Conan O'Brien]

I just disgusted this all, but yeah, fine.

[Marc Maron]

He looked like he was going to throw up.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, he's so mighty. Don't listen to him.

[Adam Sachs]

Don't listen to him. Keep going.

[Marc Maron]

Anyway, two podcasters having a good time. Of course, the Marc Maron, you know, the granddaddy of them all, and me, the little upstart. But it was fun. So my guest today is a comedian who's ERA Defining podcast WTF with Marc Maron is coming to an end after 16 years this fall. I'm excited to chat with him today. I wonder what he's gonna do now. Maybe he's got a Angela Lansbury, you know, talk down show where they go over old episodes of Murder Shoot, Murder She Wrote. Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me, actually. I think. Can you imagine Mark doing that? Yes. What the fuck? Marc Merritt, welcome. I gotta talk to you about something. This is happening because I'm here at SiriusXM in New York and look down the hall and I see there's Marc Maron. And I bully you into talking to me because I have some things to say to you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I appreciate that. I did feel bullied, but we have a long history.

[Marc Maron]

We do.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I thought, well, this is not different than it's ever been.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Conan O'Brien]

So I'll do whatever Conan needs me to do.

[Marc Maron]

Yes, you'll do as you are told.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, I will.

[Marc Maron]

Couple things. First of all, the other day, it pops up on every screen I have that Marc Maron is saying goodbye to his podcast. And I thought, jesus, he invented this, so I need to talk to him.

[Conan O'Brien]

About it because I'm an empty nester now. All you guys have gone on to do great things and you don't need me anymore.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you invented this. You were doing a podcast when no one knew what a podcast was and you invented it. And I remembered when you Barack Obama, a sitting US President, went to your house to do your podcast and I thought you've broken through some barrier. And we had a history before that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Which is when I was first doing the late night show at dark times 90. I mean, I was loving doing it, but we were going to get canceled any minute. And you. It was, you know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

A lot of people, the word was out. Don't do that show. It won't be on long.

[Conan O'Brien]

Were they not comics? We're all ready.

[Marc Maron]

Well, there were plenty of people, including NBC, that were willing to write my death certificate. And you would consistently come on and you would panel. You would just sit with me. Yeah. And it was always the same pattern. You would come out and I don't think people, you know, it's not that people knew who you were.

[Conan O'Brien]

Then I said, no, they didn't.

[Marc Maron]

They didn't. Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Most of them still don't.

[Marc Maron]

And guess what? They don't know. They didn't know who I was. They were coming to see Late Night with Conan o' Brien and they weren't sure who this kid was. But I would say my next guest, Mark Marin, and you would come out and so the crowd doesn't know who you are. You'd sit down and it was fascinating to me. You would dig a hole. Mark Marin would dig a hole. Crowd not like, not. They started out neutral. You would dig a hole where they're like, I don't like this. I, I don't know what he's. Who is this man? What is he talking about? And you would comment on how you had dug a hole, which is a rule that, you know, the great artists, I think, break the rules. The classic rule is never tell people this isn't working.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know Freddie Roman once said to me, never admit you're bombing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And so you were out there talking about on my panel, this isn't working. I shouldn't have come. I don't know why I'm here. And telling the audience that. And then I'd hear laughter. More laughter, More laughter. And you would kill. So you always did this thing where you would dig yourself into a hole and then come out of it and shoot out of it like this geyser. It was a roller coaster ride.

[Conan O'Brien]

That was the architecture of my life.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

I would say for the first 30 years, I dug a pretty good hole.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then just by cosmic timing and coincidental talent, you know, it worked out. But I was talking about this to somebody recently about doing the appearances on your show in that, you know, that was the. I was talking to Richter because I did his podcast last week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I said that was the pattern that you and I established. But what people don't know is that I was really trying in that first minute, I didn't go out there saying every time that, like, oh, good, I'm gonna do that thing I do where I alienate the audience completely. Right. When I get out there to try to get them back. I went out there wanting that first joke to work every time. It just did not. And then it became a thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think I generally come in hot and, you know, and I always knew that they didn't really know me, and I always wanted to. Just the reason I always wanted to do panel with you is because when I watched Letterman coming up as a kid, I always liked. I liked Richard Lewis and I liked the guy Jay Leno. The guys that did panel. To me, that was more interesting.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

So very quickly, I tried to, you know, get into that relationship with you. And then it happened. You know, I think because we had a good rapport, but also because I was very easy to book on a short notice.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, we would. You know, we would get you when Al Roker dropped out.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's right. Paula would call me and be like, look, what are you doing tomorrow?

[Marc Maron]

No, she would say, what are you doing in an hour? And you would come by, and it worked. And this is what happened. People started watching the show. Our show started to gradually find itself, and you had been there all along. And then what we said to all comics is, short of it being a Jerry Seinfeld or some iconic comic, you have to come out and you do your set.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Then maybe you get. You come over for some quick panel. You didn't do that from the beginning. You only came out really, and sat with me. And so comic started to say, I don't want to do a set. I just want to come out and sit there with Conan. And we'd say, yeah, no, you have to do a set. And it'd say, but what about Marc Maron? And I would say, that's different. Yeah, that's Marc Maron. He and I have a thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

We're trying to help Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

You'Re doing fine.

[Marc Maron]

It was a program, and we got federal funding, which is no longer available. But then you go off, you do the podcast. You kind of. I mean, you're the. You're the George Washington figure.

[Conan O'Brien]

But what was funny about that, though, was, like, when I started doing this podcast, my podcast, a lot of the guys I'd known for years when no one knew what a podcast was. So the general idea was I'm like, I'm going to do this podcast. And I think most people were like, well, that's, that's sad. I guess he's just going to set up a mic in his garage, but at least he's doing something. You know, like the opinion of it was. It was not. It didn't exist on the media landscape. People would come out to my house and a lot of them would be like, I don't even know what neighborhood this is.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, and people would come like, I remember Cranston came out early on and he's like, where am I? And I'm like, well, it's going to be fine. John Hamm was on. He's like, oh, Ham did it.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Like, nobody. We were there and the business sort of built up around us and now it's like, it's like cancer rapidly spreading.

[Marc Maron]

And destroying the organism around it. I think you're right. The cancer analogy is a good one. And I think I'm a fast growing cancer, which is good.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, content is good, you know, malignant content, better.

[Marc Maron]

All of us owe you a debt of gratitude because I have found, especially in this stage of my career, I loved all the other stuff I did. And because of you, this form exists where I can do something that I find incredibly satisfying because I can have these conversations with people that are very different from the world that we were working together in in the, in the early 90s was what's up in Mark Myron? And I know that I've got five minutes. Yeah, and we've got five minutes for you to, for the whole arc to happen.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I spent an hour and a half on the phone with Frank Smiley.

[Marc Maron]

Frank Smiley, shout out to Frank saying.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, what else you got? Yeah, yeah, what else? That's good.

[Marc Maron]

FR Smiley, a single producer who.

[Conan O'Brien]

Who.

[Marc Maron]

Still works with me and he's, I'm gonna say this, one of the all time greats, the greatest. He is knows, he knows comedy back and forth and he is, he was such a part of the DNA of the early late night show.

[Conan O'Brien]

What was crazy about it was like the way it worked was, you know, he'd do, he'd pre produced a segment like, you know, what am I gonna talk about? So I get on the phone with him and I'd just be pacing around my apartment in New York sweating, you know, telling him ideas, telling him bits that were kind of working. A lot of times I'D go on with a funny enough thing that became a bigger thing lately. But I would spend an hour and a half and all, I would just rant and just deliver. And then you just hear Frank go, uh huh, yeah, what else you got? And then like, you know, after spending an hour and a half, he goes, all right, I'll put something together. So I didn't even know. By the time I got to the show, he'd had me, like, this is what I got. And he transcribed the conversation. I'm like, this is too much. You know, and it was all very exciting.

[Marc Maron]

Well, he, Frank early on and to this day has no problem saying, what are you doing to me? And no, no, that's not right. You know, and he gets worked up, but he's right often. And I'm going to say most, 98% of the time, he's right. And when he's wrong, it's spectacular.

[Conan O'Brien]

We used his. His dad on a bit when I did that talk show on the street bit.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

His dad, like, it was so sad because, like, Frank was just setting his dad up. It was me on the street. I said, I want to be a talk show host. So we set it up on the street and we're just interviewing people coming by. And Frank had brought his dad in and, you know, his dad didn't know what he was doing. So his dad goes, what do you want me to do? And Frank says, tell that story that you tell just so I could look bored.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

So his dad's just doing this story that he's been telling for years, and I'm just sitting there like this, and his dad didn't know what was going on. It was a complete setup. It was pretty funny.

[Marc Maron]

I think to this day, huge stars. I'll run into them. And they did the show over the years and the first thing they say to me is, yeah, that Frank Smiley, is he still with you? Because he made an impression sometimes. I mean, they all give him credit for making him look funny. Him or her make look funny. But they will invariably say, that fucking guy drove me crazy. And he is a guy who to this day, if, like, if Seinfeld had been on the show.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Was going to be on the show, he would have said, what else you got? You're like, that's Jerry Seinfeld. That's going to kill. You can do better. You know, I think the relationship I have with my team has been a critical part of the phenomenal success. Yeah. Of Conan o' Brien needs a friend for sure. And maybe my late night career. David, you know, you see me with my team. I care about my team.

[Conan O'Brien]

You actually do.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And don't say actually do.

[Conan O'Brien]

You actually do. I stand by that.

[Marc Maron]

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[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

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[Conan O'Brien]

Licensing fees?

[Marc Maron]

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[Conan O'Brien]

I remember one time I was on your show, and I was the second guest after Trump, and who.

[Marc Maron]

I, by the way, early, early on knew was a great comic.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, totally great. Good comedic choice. But the funny thing was, is I remember it because I was in the hallway. I was at 30 Rock in my dressing room, and Frank came in and goes, you want to meet Trump? And I'm like, no, I'm good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then I took a shot at him when he went out, because it was an appearance where for some reason, he was playing with a condom.

[Marc Maron]

No, no. What happened was he was sitting next to me, and we're talking, and I just said, this is like, he's promoting the Apprentice, I think. Yeah. And it's an NBC show. So here comes Trump. And I remembered saying to him, so you're a billionaire. How much money do you carry on you at any one time? And he went, I don't know. I don't know. I know. Come on. How much money do you have on your pocket right now? And then I reached over into his blazer pocket and felt something, and he put his hand over my hand really quickly, like, don't pull that out. Yeah. We had, like, a quick tug of war, and I pulled it out, and it was a condom. And he said, safe sex, everybody. And it was a real moment. And then we go to Commercial. I go, okay, Donald Trump, everybody. A reality show host. And he'll never go onto anything else after that. And you're always very prescient. Yeah, very prescient. Yeah. And he was mad. He was like, I'm not fucking coming on this show again. God damn. I don't. You know. And he told my producer, you know, reach into a guy's pocket and stuff like that. But then, you know, literally, I don't know. It was a cut to three months later. Ladies and gentlemen, Donald Trump.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I remember I came out and I said, why is Donald Trump carrying his own condoms? Don't prostitutes usually have them? And then I said, I'll probably end up dead in the East River.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still could, actually.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Now you'll be.

[Conan O'Brien]

Now I brought it back up. And he'll be like, oh, yeah, I am.

[Marc Maron]

Why are we rekindling this?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Now of all. You know, we're just going to be.

[Conan O'Brien]

Because you want.

[Marc Maron]

We want a little heat Will shot. We'll be shot by snipers. But, yeah, I love our intertwined arc together going back to 93, all through the years. And then, you know, it's. Now, one of the wonderful things about just lasting or sticking around long enough is that I've had the experience of, oh, at the last minute, Marc Maron will fit in. And then I'm watching you in an amazing movie doing scenes with Robert De Niro, and I'm like, this is the wonderful thing about life. If you take the time to appreciate the wonderful little curlicues that happen, and you see people that persevere and stay true to themselves. And I've. I know that you had years of. I don't think this is working. I don't think anybody's buying into this. Certainly I had moments like that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Appearances on your show, I think, was the arc of those years.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but it was.

[Conan O'Brien]

You guys were keeping me afloat. I mean, it was kind of crazy. I just could not. And I know what you're saying, and I think that there is a bit of goodwill for me because I imagine people aren't always thinking about me, but I imagine there was a period there when my name would come up and then be like, yeah, I hope it works out for him.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think the nice thing is I have a lot of appreciation now. It's nice to see. I guess I'll say this in a shorter way. Getting older is treated negatively by a lot of people. They don't want to get older. They hate. And I think not only am I Chilling out just a little bit. But when you can see the whole picture, or two thirds, I hope, of the picture, it's really great because you can appreciate. You know, we just had Bob Odenkirk on, and I was with Bob in the trenches in 1988, and we were very lowest, lowest rung on the totem pole at Saturday Night Live. And now, you know, he's beating people up in action movies, and I'm like, that's crazy. And I think this is the same thing, which is. It's really. I so enjoy watching people that I connected with who I like having these. I mean, you've did it yourself. You willed it to happen. We all know some luck's involved. I've benefited from crazy amounts of luck. But to just to watch all that happen for you is a beautiful thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, thank you.

[Marc Maron]

And that's why I said, like, I grab Mark against his will. I know he's got a lot going on today, but make him talk to me so I can just tell him how much I appreciate you invented this form. You did such a lovely thing for all of us. It's a mitzvah, as the Irish say. I thank you for it, and I thank you for being out there with me in the early days of late night, when it was rough sledding. And I knew this is going to be a roller coaster ride, but Marc Mirren's going to make it happen, and you always did.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thank you so much. It means a lot to hear that. And. And, you know, certainly you were definitely part of my. A big part of my life for a lot of years, you know, doing that show, you know, three or four times a year.

[Marc Maron]

Three or four times a week.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. But it made a big.

[Marc Maron]

Once again, Marc Maron. Wait, he was on earlier in the show?

[Conan O'Brien]

No, but it was like, I didn't have a lot going on then.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Conan O'Brien]

And meant a lot.

[Marc Maron]

I just talked to you in the hallway, and I said, can I talk to you for just a second? He went, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a documentary about me. There's also a Broadway show about my life. And then I have to go get an international peace prize. I'm like, okay, I will not stop you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. They canceled my Mark Twain thing, so I want to. I want to.

[Marc Maron]

He's going to a ventriloquist next year.

[Conan O'Brien]

I wanted to share this with you with Bob Odenkirk because he had a heart attack in Albuquerque, which is where I grew up, and I texted him afterwards, and we actually had lunch when he was out there when he was shooting Better Call Saul because he went to the hospital where my dad used to work. But I was texting with him and he said so. He was so funny. I said, glad you're okay. It's scary. It's Marin. And this is after he had the heart attack. And he texted back, super scary. Mark. I basically died for a little while, and I have to say, I saw nothing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

But this crew with the. But this great crew with some amazing people kept me going. And then the hospital did a great job with some challenges. I hope you're doing great. I'm feeling good. Take care. And then I said, glad my hometown hospital was there for you. Welcome back from the nothing. And then he says again, this is why he's so fucking funny. He goes, big time. Excellent docs and nurses at Presbyterian on the ball. I'm doing great, by the way. I saw exactly no light when I was.

[Marc Maron]

Let me repeat.

[Conan O'Brien]

No light when I was dead. The whole heaven thing is a hoax. Follow the money.

[Marc Maron]

Follow the money. That's fantastic.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's the best.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's a great. I mean, people need to hear this. You need to get this word out there.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's so funny. Funny guys are the best. Funny people are the best. Especially if you text them. Oh, my God. You ever get in a group text with other funny people and you're like, I'm not going to be able to keep up with this. Oh, are you trying? Like, what can I say that's funny? And there's already three texts have gone by, and you're like, damn it, missed my window.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, it's. And it starts to feel pressure. Total pressure. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm on a. Like, occasionally, I'm in one with, like, Delaney and Kroll, Dan Levy and Jeselnick and Chelsea Peretti. I'm like, I just want to be out of this. It's too much pressure.

[Marc Maron]

I'm in one that has all these people in it, and I watch all these fireworks go by. And also their references. They'll be talking about some really incredibly obscure commercial that Telly Savalas was in in 1978 for a mochaccino drink. And they're all doing. They all know exactly all the references. And I feel. My feeling is that it's when a blade is turning very slowly. I can get my. I can put my hand on the blade and kind of get into the motion of it, but if it's spinning.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

On puree. And I put my hand in. I'm going to get Chopped to pieces. And that's what it looks like. And I just, I just watch.

[Conan O'Brien]

Your text gets no hahas. You have no explanation points.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I've learned? You can put your own haha on your text.

[Conan O'Brien]

You do that.

[Marc Maron]

David, what do I do? What do I do? Tell him always laughs to his own text. No. And I do it on purpose to be a dick. Yeah, but I'll write something to Sona or to you. And then I'll write after and then I'll put on my thing. Ha ha. And you guys are like, you can't fucking do that. And then I'll get, I'll say yes I can. And then put a ha ha on that. What's stopping you? Why nothing.

[Conan O'Brien]

We live through it all.

[Marc Maron]

The other laugh at your own text people, ha ha yourself, you only go around once.

[Conan O'Brien]

Follow the money.

[Marc Maron]

There is no light. There's no light.

[Conan O'Brien]

But the thing you're saying about aging is true. And I think what's a great thing for you is that to be able to loosen up and to be able to just have these conversations on your own terms and be engaged and enjoy people in that way is a great thing about life. And I think so many of us were in such a wheel of not just success, but like being funny, doing a great thing, doing a great show, that you don't have any time for this. And then as you get older, all of a sudden, you know, you give less of a fuck.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

And it's not even on purpose. You just are able to look back at your life and not with regret, but really realizing just how crazy you made yourself for so long.

[Marc Maron]

I think about this a lot. My twenties, my thirties, my forties, and into my fifties, I would say. But it started to peter out and I was. And then I just started to think. But during those years I was so intense, so hard on myself constantly, constantly working real hard. Tunnel vision. Totally. And then I credit my wife for helping me a lot. And I credit just going through life and meeting really good people. But I thought that I had just found wisdom. And I was telling this to my mother in law, Pam, who's a very smart woman, and I was talking to her and I said, you know, as I get older, I really think I found this wisdom. And she said, you, testosterone levels dropped. That's what happened. And I went, oh really?

[Conan O'Brien]

I thought it was humility.

[Marc Maron]

I thought it was humility. And that I had, I thought that I had found like the, the true face of like spirituality. And I got into the flow and she said, no, no, no. Testosterone levels plummet in men. And so you're. Now. You have very little testosterone left. Your penis is just a little nub now. And so you're just enjoy your downtime. Enjoy. Enjoy your life as an asexual being.

[Conan O'Brien]

Welcome.

[Marc Maron]

And whatever it is. I don't think I would have appreciated this format. 20s, 30s, 40s. And I think I'm so lucky that it exists now, because I like to have these conversations. I couldn't have them. If you hadn't invented this thing, it would not have happened. So I'm very appreciative.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

But for years, I realized the trick in late night is to try and fig. And it took me a long time to figure out, how do I appear relaxed and casual in a completely insane environment? This is a sane environment. You and I are sitting with each other. We're talking. There's gonna be a weird desk with a microphone. What am I?

[Conan O'Brien]

And also, like, 80% of your energy goes into pretending you're not terrified.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And eventually you're not afraid anymore. And you're like, well, that's done.

[Marc Maron]

Also, who ends a conversation and says, hey, Mark, it was great catching up with you. That was a terrific four and a half minutes. We'll take a break. You know, Cab Calloway is. Sure. When we get back, and I lean over and you say, hell was that? And I went, I think you really killed. And people say, what do you guys talk about in the break? Really? Not much. But that's an insane. Who walks out and addresses a crowd and talks about the day's news. It's such a kooky thing to do. And the only way to be good at it is to metabolize it as something normal and then start acting like this is all normal.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's a job. One time when I. The first time I did stand up on Letterman and I sat. I didn't even get any desk time, but I did walk over there, and he goes to break, and he wins in and goes, you can make that stuff work on the road. I do have to go. I gotta go to Tribeca.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you gotta go. And you know what? You've always had to go to Tribeca. Mark Maron. Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

This was lovely. And whatever you do, I'm in your corner, you know?

[Conan O'Brien]

I appreciate that. Well, I will say this. I do have a. I'm on this show. Stick with Owen. And I got Owen Wilson.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I got an HBO special coming out later in the summer on HBO that I can't tell the title of yet. I know what it is, but look for that. And yeah, that's what's going on.

[Marc Maron]

All right. And I can never have you back. You understand that?

[Conan O'Brien]

I knew that. I'm surprised this happened.

[Marc Maron]

This isn't going to air. And when I say, but I appreciate.

[Conan O'Brien]

All the nice things you said.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I meant all of it. And I'll see you again. We'll do this again. And congratulations.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thanks, buddy. You too.

[Adam Sachs]

Conan o' Brien Needs a Friend With Conan o' Brien, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley produced by me, Matt Gourley executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow Theme song by the White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O' Brien needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[Marc Maron]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer. I'm June Dayan Rayfield. And I'm Jason Manzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of and celebrate the best worst movies ever made. Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about. From blockbuster franchises and made for TV romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all you can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

[Conan O'Brien]

Idiot.

[Matt Gourley]

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