I confess… a single repost turned into a legal nightmare

Summary

Confessions of an Interior Designer: Episode Summary

Episode Title: I confess… a single repost turned into a legal nightmare
Release Date: March 5, 2025
Host: Caroline Turner
Guest: Lauren Taylor, Interior Architecture and Lifestyle Photographer

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1. Introduction and Guest Background

At the outset of the episode, Caroline Turner warmly welcomes Lauren Taylor, the inaugural photographer guest on the podcast. Lauren, based in Los Angeles, specializes in capturing captivating interiors and lifestyle details, drawing inspiration from diverse locales such as Vienna, Tokyo, and Havana.

Caroline Turner [00:04]: “Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer... Are you ready to hear confession?”

Lauren Taylor [00:40]: “Thank you for having me. This is so fun.”

Lauren shares her journey from being a portrait photographer and working at a visual effects studio to transitioning into interior and lifestyle photography. Her passion for interiors, ignited by her proximity to the architecture building during fine art school, led her to collaborate closely with interior designers, integrating lifestyle elements into her work.

2. Caroline's Confession: Legal Nightmare from a Single Repost

Caroline turns to her own experience, recounting a significant mistake made when launching her interior design firm. Lacking a substantial portfolio, she relied heavily on Instagram to post inspiration images sourced from Pinterest, inadvertently using copyrighted photos without proper permission or credit.

Caroline Turner [10:27]: “I’ve never thought that something like that could happen.”

The situation escalated when a photographer sued her for unauthorized use of her image, leaving Caroline grappling with the fear of losing her burgeoning business. This legal challenge forced her to confront the importance of understanding copyright laws and the necessity of proper crediting in social media practices.

Caroline Turner [12:38]: “I wasn’t going back in the archives to sue people from two years ago.”

3. Discussion on Copyright, Credit, and Usage Rights

Lauren and Caroline delve into the complexities of copyright in the interior design and photography industries. They discuss the challenges of properly crediting all parties involved—designers, photographers, and stylists—and the pitfalls of relying solely on platforms like Pinterest without verifying image ownership.

Lauren Taylor [15:27]: “But for social media, there are lots of people that are still reposting images...”

Caroline emphasizes the importance of due diligence, sharing her own practices of crediting designers and photographers whenever possible. They also touch upon the gray areas in licensing, especially concerning paid social media usage versus organic sharing.

Caroline Turner [16:23]: “I do think there’s room for support…”

4. The Changing Landscape: AI and Authenticity in Interior Design

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the impact of AI-generated images on the interior design and photography industries. Both guests express concerns over the authenticity of AI images and the potential devaluation of professional photography.

Caroline Turner [31:14]: “Because AI images become in the design zeitgeist and then we're fucked.”

Lauren Taylor [32:11]: “I’m probably looking back at this going, you didn’t know what the hell you were talking about.”

They highlight the growing demand for authenticity, with a shift towards showcasing real-life textures, imperfections, and the lived-in feel of spaces. This movement serves as a counterbalance to the sterile perfection often associated with AI-generated visuals.

Lauren Taylor [34:37]: “They want realness... they want the grittiness.”

5. Publisher and Photographer Dynamics

The episode explores the symbiotic yet sometimes strained relationships between photographers and interior designers. Caroline discusses how established designers like Heidi Callier have built their reputation through consistent collaborations, benefiting both parties.

Caroline Turner [23:22]: “For instance, Heidi Callier works with one photographer...”

Lauren touches on the evolving nature of licensing agreements, emphasizing the need for clear communication and fair compensation when images are used beyond their initial purpose.

Lauren Taylor [28:57]: “Younger, not understanding the business and wanting to get their foot in the door.”

6. Advice for Designers and Photographers

Towards the end of the episode, Caroline and Lauren offer actionable advice to their listeners:

For Designers:

• Credit Properly: Always ensure that photographers and other creatives are properly credited in all posts and publications.
• Communicate Clearly: Establish open lines of communication with photographers to define usage rights and licensing agreements upfront.
• Invest Wisely: Recognize the value of professional photography and allocate appropriate budgets to secure high-quality, licensed images.

Caroline Turner [52:04]: “Trust is huge... it gives them the confidence to perform at their best.”

For Photographers:

• Protect Your Work: Register images with the U.S. Copyright Office and utilize tools that track where your images are used online.
• Set Clear Terms: Define licensing agreements that specify how images can be used, especially concerning commercial and paid social media usage.
• Build Relationships: Foster long-term relationships with designers and other creatives to ensure mutual respect and fair compensation.

Lauren Taylor [51:59]: “Trust is huge... if you express your trust in your photographer...”

7. Fun Anecdotes and Closing Thoughts

Adding a lighter touch, both Caroline and Lauren share amusing mishaps from their shoots. Caroline recounts a chaotic shoot where her assistant Gracie accidentally dropped numerous items, turning a potential disaster into a memorable and humorous experience.

Caroline Turner [59:07]: “Like, we dropped a full vase of flowers on a leather ottoman...”

Lauren shares her challenging encounter with a controlling client, highlighting the importance of setting boundaries and maintaining professionalism even in difficult situations.

Lauren Taylor [57:55]: “He was just a control freak on the outside...”

In their closing remarks, they underscore the importance of authenticity, trust, and continuous learning in their respective fields. Caroline reflects on her own growth post-legal battle, advocating for transparency and ethical practices in sharing creative work.

Caroline Turner [39:28]: “Credit everyone properly. Protect yourself legally.”

Lauren echoes the necessity of mutual respect and ongoing education to navigate the ever-evolving digital landscape.

Lauren Taylor [48:10]: “Everybody needs more education and pivoting through this whole scary world of social media.”

Conclusion

This episode of Confessions of an Interior Designer offers a candid exploration of the intricate relationships between interior designers and photographers, the legal ramifications of digital content sharing, and the pressing challenges posed by AI in creative industries. Through personal anecdotes and expert insights, Caroline Turner and Lauren Taylor provide valuable lessons on fostering respectful and legally sound collaborations, ensuring that creativity thrives in an ethical and supportive environment.

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Connect with the Hosts and Guest:

• Submit a Confession: Caroline Turner Interiors
• Follow on Instagram: @confessionsofid
• Follow on TikTok: @carolineturnerinteriors
• Join the Facebook Group: Confessions of ID
• Lauren Taylor’s Portfolio: laurentaylorcreative.com | Instagram: @lauentaylorcreative

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, highlighting pivotal moments, enriching discussions, and the invaluable advice shared by both Caroline Turner and Lauren Taylor. Whether you're an industry insider or simply intrigued by behind-the-scenes tales, this episode offers a deep dive into the realities of the luxury interior design world.

Transcript

[Caroline Turner]

Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school, because, let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Hi, everyone. I'm so excited to introduce Lauren Taylor. Lauren is an interior architecture and lifestyle photographer who captures captivating spaces and details, drawing inspiration from her Los Angeles home and her travels to cities like Vienna, Tokyo, and Havana. Welcome, Lauren. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited.

[Lauren Taylor]

Thank you for having me. This is so fun.

[Caroline Turner]

This is so fun. And I. Yeah. I've been wanting to talk to a photographer the whole season, and so thank you for coming on and doing this. I'm really grateful.

[Lauren Taylor]

Am I the first photographer?

[Caroline Turner]

You are the first photographer. You are the inaugural photographer. Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

Wow. That's pretty special.

[Caroline Turner]

It is. And obviously, for anyone who doesn't know your work, it is just stunning. You are incredibly talented. I should start there, so.

[Lauren Taylor]

As are you.

[Caroline Turner]

Thank you. You're coming from a place of expertise, and you've worked in the industry for a while, which we'll get into.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

All right, Lauren, tell us how you got here.

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, God. So whenever someone asks me that question, I have to think about the year, because it's going by very quickly.

[Caroline Turner]

So quickly.

[Lauren Taylor]

I'm over 40 now, so I'm like, it's 2025. That means I graduated from high school in 2001, which means that I've been doing this for. I mean, I went to school for it, so, sure, we'll say. Yeah. Yeah. I went to fine art school, and I was originally a portrait photographer.

[Caroline Turner]

Cool.

[Lauren Taylor]

And, well, I was a fine art photographer in school, and I became a portrait photographer.

[Caroline Turner]

And also, I want to ask, where did you grow up? Give me a region so I can picture this.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah. No. Well, you know where I grew up. You know where I was born in Chicago.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. All the best people are.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah. Including myself. But I only lived there for three and a half years, but I moved around a ton as a kid.

[Caroline Turner]

Okay, cool.

[Lauren Taylor]

So I didn't stay very long. Two, three years. The longest I stayed was four years, but I have been in Los Angeles for 20. Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

Wow. You do not look like you could have been anywhere for 20 years except for maybe, like, your childhood. Yes. You do not look like you should be over 40, which, again, I always say that, and it's like, what does that even look like? 40 is not old. But, I mean, I think women are just aging better. And Better these days.

[Lauren Taylor]

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course.

[Lauren Taylor]

So I went to fine art school. I was a portrait photographer. I worked at a visual effects studio right out of college.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, cool.

[Lauren Taylor]

And I used to shoot back plates, 2D back plates for different music videos and American Idol even. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I'd photograph textures and different walls and those would be composited for different things.

[Caroline Turner]

And I've never even thought that that is a job. That's one of those things that when you watch tv, you wouldn't even think that, oh, someone's taking those photos. Of course they are. They have to come from somewhere. But, wow, that's fascinating.

[Lauren Taylor]

I'm running around West LA just photographing tons of textures.

[Caroline Turner]

I love that.

[Lauren Taylor]

And not really knowing where they're gonna end up.

[Caroline Turner]

Sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

All the time. But I did that. I was a portrait photographer and I started working with a regional publication in Los Angeles that also had a home magazine. And I would see those and I would go, okay, this is where I need to land. I love interiors. I actually. The fine art building in school is right next to the architecture building. And I was always like, I wish I had studied architecture. Those people seem so cool.

[Caroline Turner]

And so I think you made the right decision. I think most of those people are pretty miserable. Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, gosh. Grass is always greener.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, Always. Always.

[Lauren Taylor]

But the editor from that publications who I still work with to this day, I love that, just took a chance and was like, go for it. Why don't you just shoot a home? And I added lifestyle, incorporated lifestyle into that. And I was said, I'm not going back. This is it.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. Wow.

[Lauren Taylor]

I started making connections with interior designers. That way I still kept that lifestyle element and I still focus a lot on that today, which I kind of think differentiates me from a lot of interior photographers.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

[Lauren Taylor]

But I enjoy both. A lot of the time I am on set with an interior designer or an architect, and we're not shooting lifestyle. But any chance I can get to add it in there?

[Caroline Turner]

I mean, it's also speaks to your talent that you don't do just one thing. I feel like also as a creative, it's fun to have a couple of different outlets and be able to use your creativity in different ways. Yeah. I mean, at least for me, I know it makes it more fun.

[Lauren Taylor]

Absolutely. And I love photographing kids. I have so fun. I have three children, so I love working with kids. And if there's. I just worked with a very talented nursery kids room designer.

[Caroline Turner]

She just does kids room. That sounds fun. Yeah, that does sound fun.

[Lauren Taylor]

It's so fun. And anytime I can get a kid in there and a dog. Yeah, that's where it's at.

[Caroline Turner]

It's funny because the way that we handle photo shoots is often our clients are young families and they're having to like disrupt their life for a couple of days to let us in the house, you know, nine to six or whatever it is. And so we've started as a thank you, gifting the client like a little mini portrait session with their kids in the backyard or with their kids in the kitchen. Just like one outfit, one room. But then they have this really lovely sort of lifestyle style photo. Like, it's not posy. It's more like them living in the space that we got to help create for. And then we frame it and we send it on as a gift. And it makes them perfect. Right? And I think you doing both of those just makes you, I mean, so crucial because there's not a ton of people that do do both just because they prefer one or the other. And so we often have to hire two photographers. So to be able to have someone to photograph both sides. And if you're a designer listening, I can't recommend that enough. If you have a client who's like a little iffy, or if you're starting out and you feel like it's a big ask to ask your client to do all of this, tell them, well, obviously talk to your photographer. Don't offer it without talking to them. And make sure you're paying for it in a pack. You know, you need to negotiate that with your photographer. To be clear, I'm not saying it should be included in interior photography, but I do think it really is like a special thing for the client. It makes them feel appreciated, and then you all go away really happy. And sometimes, if the client is okay with it, their photos end up in the magazine too, which is always so fun because people love to put a face to, you know, who they think is living in this home. So it works out for everyone.

[Lauren Taylor]

I was just gonna say it's a win win, because sometimes editorial, they love it. They love to see people living in those spaces.

[Caroline Turner]

I mean, you see an Architectural Digest almost every time. If they have like a big cover story or a big shoot and it is a family, it seems like they do really try to get them in the photos. That's one of my favorite parts to, like, look. Oh, people are drawn to that. Absol. Absolutely. Cause it's easier to imagine I used to love Domino.

[Lauren Taylor]

I used to collect them when I was in my 20s.

[Caroline Turner]

Me too.

[Lauren Taylor]

Stacks, Domino, and Dwell.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God.

[Lauren Taylor]

I did, too, because of that lifestyle element.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, so good.

[Lauren Taylor]

Everybody in a different part of the home doing the thing.

[Caroline Turner]

Yes. Oh, my God, yes. Wow. There are so many. I feel like magazine spreads from Domino that are still imprinted in my brain. Like, that was the magazine that I was pouring over. Cause it felt more accessible, I guess. I don't really know. But I agree. I miss the more accessible print magazine.

[Lauren Taylor]

Print, print, print, print, please.

[Caroline Turner]

I know. Me too. Very much so. Well, that is fascinating. I'm so impressed. And I feel like anytime you want to come to Chicago and shoot both lifestyle and interiors, I feel like we can make that happen. I think it could be a good team. I love it. I love it, I love it. Before we get into some confessions, what's advice you partake in?

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, boy, this is really hard. And I'm sure everybody starts out with oh, boy or something, but I was thinking about this yesterday, and I was actually talking to my husband. My vices are probably pretty lame. I like sweets. Is that advice? That's probably advice.

[Caroline Turner]

That is definitely a vice, and it's one of mine. That's for sure. Same for sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

And I was going through a bunch of different little lame ones, and he's like, no, Lauren, your vice is work. And I was like. He's like, yeah, okay. So, like, if I can go escape and, like, start organizing my CRM or.

[Caroline Turner]

Getting emails, I love. That means you love your job. That's great. Yeah, I'm sure. Also, when you're a mom, sometimes work feels like the reward. Like you get to go. You get to do your thing and get organized and get settled. As a not mom, I love that feeling of, like, all my stuff is where I need it to be. I'm in the right place. I'm organized. Like, there is no feeling, which is a control problem.

[Lauren Taylor]

Clearly.

[Caroline Turner]

No kuna vice it is. But I still love it.

[Lauren Taylor]

Everything needs to be in its place. And then I feel like I can take over the world.

[Caroline Turner]

So when I have taken a girl shower, my sheets are clean, my house is clean, and my animals are clean. Are clean. I mean, I could run.

[Lauren Taylor]

I could be the president.

[Caroline Turner]

I could be the president of the United States on that feeling alone, which might also be indicative of some OCD going on, but it's true. I love it. I love that. Okay, well, I think that is a great one. And I also. Yeah, sweets is one that I'm Trying to work on. Honestly, always. I don't. I've never gotten better at it, though. And it's always at night, too, for me. Always. Always at night.

[Lauren Taylor]

Always right after dinner.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. Gotta have a little sweet treat.

[Lauren Taylor]

Gotta do how to do it.

[Caroline Turner]

Let's do this. Hi. I have a confession that hopefully will help designers learn from one of my biggest and most naive mistakes. It all started years ago, when I first decided to launch my interior design firm. I had no portfolio, no solid client base, no real examples of my work to share. I felt like an imposter. So I did what I thought was smart. I turned to Instagram. The plan post inspiration images that represented the type of work I wanted to do. I searched Pinterest for hours, saved images of beautiful work that fit my aesthetic, and shared them on my feed, giving credit where I could, whenever I could find the designer's name or the right source. This is what all of my favorite designers did. So it didn't even cross my mind that something like this could happen. After all, I was promoting incredible work. My followers were happy, my account was growing, and I was building something, Anything. But I didn't know what. I didn't know. I didn't realize the extent of the legal issues that could arise. I didn't know that the beautiful images of stunning interiors, ones I thought I was honoring, could one day come back to bite me. And then it happened. I got an email from a photographer's lawyer. The photographer was suing me for using her image without permission, claiming the legal rights to the photo and demanding compensation for its unauthorized use. The worst part, I hadn't even realized it was her work. I'd found it on Pinterest like so many other designers and creatives, and I thought it was free to share. But I had neglected to check the fine print, who owned the photo and who had shot it. And most importantly, I hadn't tagged her because, honestly, I had no idea who she was. I felt like the wind had been knocked out of me. How could I have been so careless? I had worked so hard to establish my business, but now I was facing a legal battle that threatened to tear it all apart. My heart sank with each passing day, each new piece of correspondence from her lawyer. The guilt was overwhelming. What if I lost everything over a mistake could have prevented? Although it was such a scary time, I learned and I grew. I reached out to the photographer, admitted my mistake, and we worked at a settlement. I paid the photographer for the use of her image, and I made sure to educate myself on copyright Laws and the proper way to credit creatives going forward. I changed my approach to social media completely. No more pulling images from Pinterest without checking for ownership. No more shortcuts.

[Lauren Taylor]

This is. I mean, I run into this all the time, I'm sure. Yes.

[Caroline Turner]

And it's. I think it's needs to be talked about from both sides, like from being responsible with. And it's interesting because this has also come up, like, in the Chicago Circle. And when I read this email, I was like, oh, my God, I was just talking to another designer who. We know who this happened to. And I think there's. Yeah, it's so ripe for discussion because obviously creatives need to be credited for their work, period.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yes.

[Caroline Turner]

Like, that's the bottom line of this. And I think the person who's writing this agrees.

[Lauren Taylor]

I feel bad for her.

[Caroline Turner]

That's my immediate reaction.

[Lauren Taylor]

I'm a photographer and I feel bad for her because really what it comes down to is she hasn't been educated. And it's not something. We don't come into all of this knowing every rule.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep. And the rules are also constantly changing, always changing. I think that's a big, big piece of it because I will say, when I started my firm almost six years ago, I was also posting inspiration, imagery, and I mean you. The rule of thumb that I was always taught, and this was even when I had my own interior photographer. If you know the stylist, you know the photographer, you know the designer. You have to credit all three. If you can't find that information, you do your absolute, most due diligence, and then you credit who you can find, hoping that the person that you credit will then tell you who they worked with on that image. That was always my sort of rule of thumb. However, I have probably posted images that I did not credit the photographer and I credited the interior designer because maybe the interior designer didn't credit the photographer.

[Lauren Taylor]

That happens a lot.

[Caroline Turner]

That happens. And that's the beginning of the train. Right. Like, if the designer doesn't credit the photographer, then we can't know who they used. And then it's almost like, is the wrong person getting sued? Is the wrong person? Are you going after the wrong person for money when there was. That wasn't accessible information for that person? Yeah, I think it's hard because the person I was talking to recently, she said she offered to delete the post. She was like, I'm so sorry. Obviously, I did not know. I will delete the post. The photographer was not willing for that to be a Solution.

[Lauren Taylor]

I'm a little confused on it, to be honest. Because it's Instagram we're talking about, correct?

[Caroline Turner]

Correct.

[Lauren Taylor]

Okay. So when you sign up for Instagram, anything that you post is kind of dam.

[Caroline Turner]

Own your images.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah. And I heard that a million times over. And I still believe that I own the copyright of my images. Of course, what it comes down to is being respectful of people.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

On Instagram specifically, licensing outside of Instagram is a whole different thing.

[Caroline Turner]

Completely different.

[Lauren Taylor]

And there's costs for those things that are completely separate.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

But. But for social media, there are lots of people that are still reposting images and I. I'm not sure. And maybe I should educate myself on this a little bit more that I'm not sure that that's not okay.

[Caroline Turner]

That's my question also, because as a designer, I want other people to be able to share our work. Especially when you're new, if you have an Instagram photo that just like blows up. I mean, you want. The way it blows up is other people are sharing it, other people are reposting other. So from my point of view, it's like I don't mind if they share my work as long as they're crediting me and not taking credit for my work. Because it's getting views and eyes and that's helping me.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yes.

[Caroline Turner]

Which hypothetically could be the same for a photographer. Because if your image is everywhere and people are impressed, that's how you get hired.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah. And here's where the gray area becomes a little bit more black and white is that there's also paid social. And paid social is advertising.

[Caroline Turner]

Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

And I shoot commercially as well. When we create bids, we are line iteming that the usage is specific for social and paid social, those are specific items within. Within a contract. Target can't go and take my image and use it right on their Instagram without my knowledge and without paying me.

[Caroline Turner]

Right.

[Lauren Taylor]

As you trickle down. I don't mean to say trickle down, but we're talking about like small businesses. Interior designers are generally small businesses.

[Caroline Turner]

Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

That gets a little bit more gray.

[Caroline Turner]

It does.

[Lauren Taylor]

And I think in order for photographers to survive, they've been more open to sharing. Yeah. Because this is just the new way of doing things. But it all just comes down to, again, respect for the creators. And that includes interior designers too. There's so many accounts now I am seeing posting AI images.

[Caroline Turner]

Don't even get me started.

[Lauren Taylor]

But when you don't specify that it's an AI image, it's similar to me. Because you're misleading.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, the viewer.

[Lauren Taylor]

And when you're an interior designer and it's not your work and you're posting it, you've got to make sure that the people know that it's not your work.

[Caroline Turner]

Very loud and clear.

[Lauren Taylor]

This is who is involved. And you are admiring them and you want to share them. That's like a different type. That's okay in my book. It might not be okay with everybody, of course.

[Caroline Turner]

Everyone has their own boundaries and limits. Of course.

[Lauren Taylor]

And then the important, important thing is to just communicate with your photographer ahead of time. Make sure that you're covering all of the bases. Social media usage, editorial usage, separate commercial usage, print advertising, that kind of thing.

[Caroline Turner]

So it's just open communication is important and it's interesting. I as early on in my career got. And again, I just don't think this was talked about as much. And it's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on to discuss it. Cause I think there's so much nuance. But, you know, you post a photo, you tag rejuvenation in it. Rejuvenation says, do we have your permission to post your photo? As an interior designer who's a baby interior designer, you're like, oh, my God, Rejuvenation wants to post my photo. Like, it's very exciting.

[Lauren Taylor]

They'll say, put hashtag rejuvenation. Or we're saying rejuvenation.

[Caroline Turner]

But no, but any of it, please hashtag whatever. Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

You're agreeing to terms and conditions and within those terms and conditions and saying that you own the rights to share this image for whatever usage. And you're giving away.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep.

[Lauren Taylor]

That to X Company.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

And you can't do that. In my book. You've got to say, please contact the photographer. And that's a separate conversation between the photographer and that business.

[Caroline Turner]

So this leads us to potentially even murkier water. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna ask it anyway. So I absolutely, obviously I understand rights, I understand usage. I have a friend who works in like, the commercial food space, and she does lots of, like, creating ads for Cheez it or for whoever and like, you know, creates all the elements, puts them all together, and then the image is something from her brain. Interiors is obviously different. Right. Like, there's the interior designer who designed it, the stylist who's perfecting the image, and then the photographer who's creating and capturing the image.

[Lauren Taylor]

It's a team effort.

[Caroline Turner]

I should say this on air. We've never worked together in that way. So, like, I'M not speaking on your rates or anything like that. And from my experience, if we're paying $6,000 a day and everything gets placed and the photographers are making depending on the publication, some pay them very little. There are some publications though that I know what they're paying per image. And I struggle with the only one person in that team profiting on the image that we all created together.

[Lauren Taylor]

Interesting.

[Caroline Turner]

And so this isn't to say anything needs to change. My thought is, because you can't know who's gonna get placed before you take the photos. So it's not like you can say ahead of time, yes, we'll make some sort of deal because you don't know if it's gonna be good enough to get placed. But for the photographers who work with designers all the time that get placed. And like for example, Heidi Callier, she works with one photographer and like, in my opinion, he's become a premier photographer because she works with him. Not only because of that, but there is a big section of designers who wouldn't necessarily know his work unless she was working with him. And so that relationship seems more symbiotic. Whereas there are, you know, obviously there are interior photographers who get hired by a designer. They pay for their photos. You never get any exposure from it, so you had to get paid for it. But is there a world in which if the photos are placed, there's like a credit that gets applied with future use with the photographer. So like it's not. Do you get what I'm saying? So like if you're a. And you might just say no and that's fine.

[Lauren Taylor]

I just, I've actually heard of that.

[Caroline Turner]

Sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

Maybe giving some caution like back within that, that initial rate.

[Caroline Turner]

Sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

For usage for other people that were involved in the project.

[Caroline Turner]

Okay.

[Lauren Taylor]

And you know, like let's say an architect comes in.

[Caroline Turner]

Sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

And then. But you are the one that brought that architect to say, hey, here are the images. I've heard of that, that I actually don't do that.

[Caroline Turner]

Sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

But I think that gets a little bit far reaching when you as the designer are having the project photographed. You then get more work or benefit from having beautiful images. So where does the line, where is the line drawn on? I should profit from additional usage. If everybody is benefiting across the board. Does that make sense?

[Caroline Turner]

It does. But if we never hired a photographer, there wouldn't be any images to profit off of. Hmm. If that makes sense. So like if we had never, if we had never done the job at all or taken the photos at all we wouldn't have the photos. But there also wouldn't be the ability for someone else to profit, which to be clear, profit off of is implying something nefarious is going on. And that's not what I mean. Someone who is making money, that is their right to make money. But I think, listen, I'm gonna be super transparent. We are placed in a lot of publications and I love the photographers we work with. I just don't know how fair it feels that if they have one interior designer that their work is never placed ever, anywhere. So they're making no additional money from them.

[Lauren Taylor]

Okay.

[Caroline Turner]

And they're paying their rate. But then they work with me, I pay the same rate that that person pays. But then they make a ton more money because my work was placed. Does that make sense?

[Lauren Taylor]

Right, but is it placed because of.

[Caroline Turner]

The photo or is it because of the design? That's the question.

[Lauren Taylor]

That's, that's, that is the question.

[Caroline Turner]

And I don't, I think that is obviously the two camps are going to think differently. You know about those.

[Lauren Taylor]

There's a lot of different revenue streams that are of course in your business and there's, there's different ones for us. For us.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Lauren Taylor]

It's, it's usage and you know, you have to keep in mind we go to this shoot and we come home and we're still working on it. Just like you are working on, on it again for or installing. There's lot of different segments that build our profession. I don't know. Of course this is a really tough one.

[Caroline Turner]

That's okay. I don't think there's an answer. If there were an answer, the industry would be changing. It's just something I've been thinking about, sort of like how do we move forward, making sure that everyone feels like they're all in a symbiotic relationship. And I love my photographer. She does work with me, you know, and I think because of that, because some of our stuff is placed. She' used that verbiage. It's never been like, because you do this, I'm giving you this. I, I know that, you know, if you have a long standing relationship, sometimes photographers will work with you. It's just a curious thing that I'm always thinking about because I don't know of another form of photography that is because like obviously with modeling, I don't know, like obviously that person in their likeness, but they didn't, that's a little bit of a different thing because it's like they weren't paid to Create their likeness. It's just their likeness that's in the photo and that's part of what they're getting paid for.

[Lauren Taylor]

I mean, they kind of were.

[Caroline Turner]

What do you mean?

[Lauren Taylor]

If we're comparing the two, first of all, it's a lot different and a lot harder for a photographer to go and create additional usage for people because you're dealing with model releases and all of that.

[Caroline Turner]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Lauren Taylor]

But I'm just saying they're creating themselves. They're how they present themselves, the environment they're in.

[Caroline Turner]

And maybe what's different about that is the end user who's paying the photographer, paying the model. Paying everyone is like, typically a brand or it's you yourself as the person. Right.

[Lauren Taylor]

This is very tough.

[Caroline Turner]

This is.

[Lauren Taylor]

I don't feel like I have a strong answer that would be representative of the photography community.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course. You absolutely do not have to speak for everyone. That's not what I'm intending.

[Lauren Taylor]

Licensing, like, when it comes to, like, commercial usage and more eyes are being put on an image, of course, then more companies or that specific company, be it large or small, the larger they are, the more eyes, the more they pay for licensing. That's a conversation I have a lot.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course, of course. And I understand, like, for, again, Cheez it, which is just a random example, their image being on a billboard like that. The photographer either signs it over in perpetuity or they sign it over and, like, there's a time that they own that image and then it goes back to you. We don't necessarily have that in interiors. You always own the image. So it's just. And I'm only an interior designer. I don't work in any other part of photography. I just. I guess it really is similar in that. Like, it's the same thing. And we had a stylist come in and we talked about it. They have the same question, like, well, where does interior design stop and interior styling start? Right, like. And how does that. Like. So there's murkiness on all sides of it. And I don't think there's any one, like, right or wrong answer. I just wonder if there's room for movement in the industry.

[Lauren Taylor]

There's definite movement in the industry because coming from a photographer who speaks with lots of other photographers, all of this has changed. The word in perpetuity, for one has changed. Was. Yeah. That was not something that people handed out. Definitely not to a commercial.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course. Of course.

[Lauren Taylor]

But it is now.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep. Because to stay competitive. Is that why. Because other people are doing It, Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yes. Younger, not understanding the business and wanting to get their foot in the door. It's competition, you know?

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Lauren Taylor]

So it's tough because it brings down the entire industry.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. I think the same can be said for interior design. I know when I first started, there was a ton of discussion on passing on your discounts and like, that being a very, very big piece and like sort of the old guard feeling very upset about the fact that new designers were coming in and doing that, and I don't really have a horse in that race. We handle it a specific way and how we found success from our side, which is not passing on our discounts. But I understand if you're a very, very young designer, you have no money, you gotta make rent, like you're gonna do what you are gonna do. Same with the photograph. Five years down the line, you created your own problem. And I'm speaking for myself. Like, I cut discounts in the very beginning to win jobs because I needed the work or I wasn't going to survive. But we're all thinking that way until it becomes like a collective problem and then we're all like, fuck, what did we do?

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah. Ultimately you get what you pay for.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

And if you're hiring a photographer that has a very specific range and charges for specific licensing, those photographers are more educated in the business of it, have been doing it longer, have more respect for the industry, and you're probably gonna get a better product.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course, I mean, me five years ago is not the experience you get now. So we weren't charging to what we do now because the experience was completely different. So. Yes, absolutely. I think that is definitely true. Thank you for talking about that with me. I appreciate it. I meant to say this earlier. I think AI is an interesting discussion because I would rather personally, just like, as a person who experiences social media, I would so much rather people be sharing other people's work, ideally with the right crediting, than AI.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

Because then AI images become in the design zeitgeist and then were fucked. I'm not trying to draw a straight line between these two, but because of AI now that's gotta also be applying pressure to photographers. I know it's applying pressure to designers because if a computer. I mean, I don't think a computer can do what either of us do, obviously. But I do think that there is a certain subsect of people that would rather just go the AI route, whether it's best for everyone or not.

[Lauren Taylor]

Ultimately, like, I feel we're safe oh, God. I'm gonna, like, you know, 10 years from now, I'm probably looking back at this going, you didn't know what the hell you were talking about. But people still have to live in these spaces that you're creating. So I think there's a little bit of peace in knowing that this is the real world you're creating. The real world.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course, yes. You can't live in an AI image. Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

And we're photographing that. And I'm also photographing people within those spaces, so I feel okay about it there. Just recently, maybe a week ago, I came across an interior design firm. And I. Maybe I'm ashamed to say this. I could not tell if it was. Everything was AI or if this was just their style. And so I would. I went down a rabbit hole and I started looking at their site and matching these images. And, like, I was like, look at. You know when you look at AI.

[Caroline Turner]

In A Beautiful Mind, when all of.

[Lauren Taylor]

The string, it was actually really terrifying. And you're. I was zooming in. You know when you see an AI image and there will be a third arm and you're like, okay, that's not right.

[Caroline Turner]

Or the extra finger of the middle tissue finger.

[Lauren Taylor]

Exactly. Classic. Yeah, that goes for interiors, too. So I was sitting in there trying to see. It looked pretty clean. But to me, as a photographer, I was like, this feels very AI. There was no photographer credited in anything.

[Caroline Turner]

So I was, like, very skeptical, and.

[Lauren Taylor]

Everything looked the same. I feel like you know what I'm talking about.

[Caroline Turner]

I do, because this just happened where, like, I feel like I know exactly what you're talking about. So I was looking for an image for a closet that's, like, very specific, that I'd never seen before. Digging for, like, hours found an image. And in that digging, definitely came upon AI images. And, like, I know what to check. I know where to zoom in. I know, like, oh, if there's liquor bottles in the photo, you can tell if it's a real bottle person. You know, like, there's little things you can check. I could not tell. It took me 20 minutes to figure out if it was a real image or an AI image. I asked all the girls in the office. One of them's 22. I'm like, can you tell the difference? It terrified me because I was like, how is this and not terrified me in that I'm worried I won't have a job terr in that if I do this for a living. If you do this for a living and we're Having a hard time telling. The average person is going to be bringing us every photo as AI in the next couple years. Cause they won't even be able to tell the difference. And that makes me scared.

[Lauren Taylor]

It makes me scared. But I also feel in life, not even just in our industry, but in life, there's a pullback.

[Caroline Turner]

Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

There's people that want realness. And you see it in imagery too. Not necessarily interior photography, but other type of imagery that's really raw, that might even look like it's taken with an iPhone, which iPhones are fabulous now and take really clear, beautiful images. But, you know. Yeah, they want the grittiness.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep. The texture. Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah. So I think the best thing you can do for your business, this as a photographer, as an interior designer, is to be showing like the mess. And that's like. You know what I mean?

[Caroline Turner]

Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

With like styling too. Just.

[Caroline Turner]

I completely agree.

[Lauren Taylor]

I think there's a shift, I'm hoping, because people want to really live authentic lives. Not go into, you know. Oh, I always think of what's that movie Wall E. My kids were little when that movie was popular.

[Caroline Turner]

The robot. Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

The people sitting in the little chairs. And they're just like too lazy. They're just looking through AI Anyways. That's a long winded analogy.

[Caroline Turner]

No. But I do think that there's definitely this shift to authenticity. We've seen it on social media for a while and now it's finally bleeding into fashion and interiors and all of these more perceived as perfect spaces. In my mind, you can't open a heritage design magazine and it not have some sort of like little choo choo train in the middle of the floor. Because that's real life. And that's even what these very, very stylized shoots are stylizing. Right. Like that's what they're going for. I love that it makes the world feel a little less serious and more fun and just like, not as hard to be an adult because we're not trying to make our houses look like a magazine constantly. But it's also brought up this really interesting thing from a designer side where everything needs to be indestructible. Like if it can get damaged, they don't want it. And it's like, that's not. We can't.

[Lauren Taylor]

We can't raise the bar that high, unfortunately.

[Caroline Turner]

Yes. And so I sort of start to bump up against that. Cause they're like, we really want to live in our homes and blah. And I'm like, me too. That is what I want from You. I want there to be, like, a little etch on the marble next time I come back because it feels like you've been using this home that we all put our blood, sweat and tears into. Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

Let's normalize that.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely.

[Lauren Taylor]

I love it.

[Caroline Turner]

Like, Europe is so beautiful for that reason. Like, red wine from 400 years ago is still on the ground. Like, I love that. I think it's so meaningful. We just had an episode yesterday with someone about natural stone, so I'm still a little on my soapbox, but I do think that that is the antidote to AI is the more we dig into texture and real life and messes and patina, the better off we're gonna be in the long run.

[Lauren Taylor]

Now, whether AI can, like, you know, create that look too, that's.

[Caroline Turner]

That's. It's a little bit of a concern. But for now, we're gonna assume it can't. Because right now, it's still only good, really, in my opinion, at very contemporary, like, very modern, clean lines. You don't see. Like a grand millennial living room from AI and you're not able to pick it out. Right.

[Lauren Taylor]

A grand millennial. Oh, I think I am one of those. I like that term. I haven't hear.

[Caroline Turner]

It's a term for the interior design style that's like, oh, that's not even.

[Lauren Taylor]

I thought you were.

[Caroline Turner]

I'm not calling anyone old. No, don't worry. Like, oh, that's a new one. Elder Millennial.

[Lauren Taylor]

Elder Millennial. Oh, God. Just goes to show you, photographers don't know every design.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, that was great. Can you imagine if I was like, and you Grand Millennial? The new insult. I'm going to start using it. It's actually pretty good. It's pretty.

[Lauren Taylor]

I like that word.

[Caroline Turner]

I'm actually a grand millennial.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. That gave me a giggle. Thank you for that. As for my business, it survived, it thrived. In fact, the lessons I learned from that legal battle shaped the way I approach my work. Now I'm more careful, more thoughtful about the content I share and more committed to supporting the creatives whose work I admire. I wish I had known then what I know now, but life doesn't work that way. My advice, if you're starting your own business, if you're in the trenches of building your own brand, learn from my mistakes, credit everyone properly. Protect yourself legally.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

Which I think is great. I mean, I think it's lovely that she's, like, self reflecting and is able to see her piece of that. My question for You, Lauren, is. Would you. If this happened, which I don't think. I'm thinking it has happened. And you're not going back in the archives to sue people from two years ago.

[Lauren Taylor]

I'd be willing to bet that's a losing battle.

[Caroline Turner]

Also. It. It doesn't signal that you're doing great right now. Yeah, right. Like, if you're waiting to go back and sue people from three years ago because they posted your. An Instagram photo, you got a lot.

[Lauren Taylor]

Of time on your hands. Yeah, yeah. It just happens so much.

[Caroline Turner]

Well. And like, how do you keep up? I mean, we see our images and this is another. Another question that I would be interested to hear what you have to say. I. I see. Which. They're your images. I guess we see our work. Work on Pinterest with art that other people are selling Photoshopped into it. Are you seeing that on your photos? Like, I will be scrolling my own Pinterest, come across my own Etsy Even. Or Etsy Even. And they will have our photos with a different piece of art.

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, my gosh. This is so interesting.

[Caroline Turner]

Isn't that wild?

[Lauren Taylor]

Because. Yes, well. Oh, my goodness. Okay.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

No, I do not think that's okay. Bottom line.

[Caroline Turner]

But how do we. How do we avoid that besides, like, watermarking photos? How do you. You can't.

[Lauren Taylor]

You can't.

[Caroline Turner]

You can't.

[Lauren Taylor]

But you can copyright your images with the. The copyright office or I want to. United States Copyright Office, which. That's just a regular thing we do that enables that photographer to have that legal battle with that person.

[Caroline Turner]

Right.

[Lauren Taylor]

But yeah, no, no, it's really a tough one. One of the things that. Within the photography world, there are sites that will scour the Internet for your images that you've loaded. So then they can kind of keep track of where those images are.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Lauren Taylor]

I did get an inquiry recently. Hopefully they're not listening, but I politely declined because they wanted to purchase licensing of images from interior designers that I've worked with. With and put their wallpaper. Oh, and Photoshop. And I said, no, I can't do that. That would be disrespectful to the interior designers. That is their work and it needs to stay as it is. So no.

[Caroline Turner]

Right.

[Lauren Taylor]

Politely decline. But yeah, that's what. That's the same idea is these people want to have a beautiful scene where they can put their image.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

There are many ways to do that. One of it is to hire photographers to photograph them in the space.

[Caroline Turner]

Exactly. Like we had to. Like we had to. That's what I keep banging my head against the wall. We paid for them, like, and I'm using like my images because my personal, I mean, I guess it depends on what photographer you're working with, but at least my understanding of like, my deal is that I own my personal rights to those photos.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

So like, I can't give my rights. I can't give rights away. I can't say on behalf of the photographer, it's ok. Okay for anyone else to use them, but I'm allowed to use them how I want in perpetuity. But we don't edit her photos ever. So, like, we don't crop. We won't do anything like that.

[Lauren Taylor]

Right, right. And that's another issue. But if you want to think about it in a slightly different way with regards to how that photographer is then selling usage, later on, our rates are lowered with the intention that later on we can license those images to vendors. That's what keeps our rates manageable for small business interior designers. We know that we can generate more income to support our families from the architect, the builder, the cabinet manufacturer, what have you, and we do it in a respectful way. I am not going to license it to someone who's going to alter the image. But that, that is the best answer I can give is that it keeps your rate low because it makes sense. Our businesses are structured with licensing in mind. That's how we make a living.

[Caroline Turner]

Are there ever times where interior designers ask you not to share?

[Lauren Taylor]

Yes.

[Caroline Turner]

I mean, I know there are when it's being embargoed for press. But like, what happens if. Which I know this is like a very specific instance, so I'm not again, not trying to paint with a broad brush here at all. But you know, if a designer says we want these photos, we're going to put them on our website, but we don't want them shared anywhere. No one can share them, no one can use them, no one can do anything.

[Lauren Taylor]

They pay me more.

[Caroline Turner]

They pay you more. Okay, so in the upfront they tell you you basically can never share this and you charge more.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yes, absolutely.

[Caroline Turner]

Okay, interesting. That answers the question.

[Lauren Taylor]

It goes for interior design, it goes for commercial.

[Caroline Turner]

That answers the question. I think so. My point earlier is exactly what you just said, that it's going to be able to be licensed, otherwise we should be paying a lower price, which it sounds like we are.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yep.

[Caroline Turner]

Like that is the that. And that I think is the piece that I didn't know and I don't know that all photographers are doing that if I'm being totally honest, I think there are some photographers that are. You know, it's the same rate no matter what. And I don't even know if that's necessarily their fault. I think sometimes they've signed a contract and then the client sort of changes how they feel or something happens or what have you. But it makes me feel better to know that, like, okay, great, I'm paying this six grand a day, but they're able to make more money off of it, but someone else is paying eight, ten grand a day, and there's no additional profits on that Makes complete sense. And I have no issue with everyone making money. Like, that's not the problem here by any means. Okay. I feel like that was super helpful. I don't even mean to, like, intentionally make it about money. Yeah. Sounds like that's what I'm doing, but it's more about, like, understanding this.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

The relationship. Like, we're all scratching each other's backs and we're all working together to get that one final result. Because I want to be able to trust my photographers that, like, they have, which I know they do, my best interest at heart. Their best interest at heart, the client's best interest at heart. That's the way you get, like, you know, a clean and beautiful final result. Okay. Before we move on, though, we should do some penance. Something I followed in my. Is, there's a couple times in my life where I can pinpoint when I was, in my perception, fucked over. And each of those times, And I'm petty, okay, so know that. But each of those times, I had to, like, white knuckle and not do anything about it. Don't, like, go after anyone. Don't do, like, you know, don't sue this person to get this. Don't do any of that. Just move on. And never thinking about them, never bringing them up, never giving them a second more of airtime in your life is the best thing I could have done. And while I understand photographers need to make a living, I think something that could be helpful is if it's past a year, maybe it lies would be my recommend. But we should be clear. Not for, like, commercial, not for. Not for companies, but for. If someone posted on their Instagram four years ago your inspiration image.

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, yeah, no, I.

[Caroline Turner]

Are you gonna sue someone from four years ago that they posted their inspiration? However, if. If. Fucking rejuvenation. Sorry, girl, you didn't do anything wrong. No, I actually love them. We use them all the time, and they actually. I think are pretty good about it. But if a brand were to take that photo from three years ago, put it on their Instagram with a shop tag, go with millions of viewers. Exactly. Go for it. Throw the pants off of them, as far as I'm concerned.

[Lauren Taylor]

I think, again, what it just comes down to is having. Having open communication with your interior designer and with your photographer. If you have hired someone or you've taken on a client, in my case, and it hasn't been written out and clearly stated what the usage is, then you're gonna run into problems. Keep the communication going. I mean, everybody needs more education and pivoting through this whole scary world of social media that just keeps getting. Yeah. Bigger and bigger.

[Caroline Turner]

And maybe a better way of saying it is providing each other a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Like if the photographer had reached out to this designer who doesn't even know this photographer exists. Right. Like, if that photographer had reached out and said, you have this photo. You didn't credit me. Me, can you delete it? And she didn't. That's when I'm like, yeah, okay, sure. Like, I just. To your point. Communication. I think it's when. Cause I. I really did text her social media manager, and I was like, we need to delete every inspiration image we've ever posted because I was so worried that I would be sued.

[Lauren Taylor]

People are reposting a lot. I just don't see.

[Caroline Turner]

Well, that's what she's saying is that she was sued by a photographer that she didn't even know who he was.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah, well, that's a. I mean, to start.

[Caroline Turner]

That's insane. That's insane. And, you know, we had a. An interior designer on Madison Malaga, and I love her. She's brilliant. And she and her mom have a firm and she takes their photos. She's not like, you know your level. I don't mean that in a bad way. She would say the same thing. We talked about it a lot when she was on the podcast, but she, because they're so small, takes their own photos. And so at one point, we use one specific one of their images a ton. And I. That's how we kind of became friends. Cause I was digging so deep to find a photographer, it ended up being her. So there are some times where you can't even know, like, is it something like that? So I do think just providing a little bit of grace, the opportunity to say, hey, you probably didn't mean this. Let's try to rectify it. And then if it can't be Rectified, that's when. And I think it can, you know.

[Lauren Taylor]

And if you're a designer that is posting images, it looks much better for your brand if you are giving credit where credit's due on all fronts.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely.

[Lauren Taylor]

If I come across an image and there's no tag and it's clearly not them, I'm like, okay, that's a little strange.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah, I'm just not impressed.

[Caroline Turner]

I think that should be illegal. I mean, I just already completely agree.

[Lauren Taylor]

Sneaky. Just know that you're not really gonna benefit from it.

[Caroline Turner]

You're not helping yourself. And, you know, if you are, those clients who don't know the difference aren't the ones you want. Like, the clients who are willing to work with someone who's using someone else's work. We don't. We don't want them anyway. We don't need them. Okay. So I do think the good news is, is that this is becoming much more of a known thing from the designer side of, like, you know, all of our stylists, all our photographers have in their contract. This is how you credit us. This is what we need from you. So if we're all having good social media hygiene and crediting how we need to, Ideally, no one down the line doesn't know who did what. Like, if we can start from the beginning and properly credit, ideally, the trickle down is less of an issue because we did it right from the beginning.

[Lauren Taylor]

And Pinterest was such a tough one for that.

[Caroline Turner]

Such a tough one for that.

[Lauren Taylor]

In the early days of Pinterest, getting lost and not knowing what is what and who is who.

[Caroline Turner]

And how did I find this image? I'm 16 pages deep on some random blow vlog. Christy loves life. Like, how did I get here?

[Lauren Taylor]

Like, and now I gotta go to Google image search to see whose image is this so that I can see more.

[Caroline Turner]

Go Gmail them.

[Lauren Taylor]

It's a deep dive that you don't want to deal with.

[Caroline Turner]

You do not want to do it. I want to do it. Well, let's get into some questions. All right. What do designers need to do to help a photographer thrive on a shoot?

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, what a great question. As I was showering this morning, I envisioned that this might be the question.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm so happy we could oblige. I love that.

[Lauren Taylor]

Okay, so I think number one is trust. Trust is huge. Like, if you express your trust in your photographer, that gives them the confidence to perform at their best. It sounds like a no brainer, but, like, if you're micromanaging them. It first of all takes their focus off of what they're doing.

[Caroline Turner]

Takes way longer too.

[Lauren Taylor]

And then it, it takes the trust away and then they start questioning themselves. It's like I've been doing this for a long time. I do, I go to a shoot. Every job that I do is a shoot.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

You guys most of the time are dealing with something completely different. Different.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep. And have one to two shoots a year. Like that's a random day versus an everyday. Absolutely.

[Lauren Taylor]

Every day. I know exactly the flow from beginning to end. I can walk in a house and I know where we should start and where we should end based on a multitude of factors. So if you have the trust in the photographer, that's number one. Number two, and it might be tied for first is dealing with your client.

[Caroline Turner]

Uh huh.

[Lauren Taylor]

And maybe they're sent away to a spa day so that you guys can all do your job. I know a client. I can't think of who it is off the top of my head. But they do send their client away. And, and I know that's not lovely for everybody but it's so nice for us to be able to take the time and not worry. We are, we will always be respectful of their space in their home. I 99% of the time work in my bare feet because.

[Caroline Turner]

Because it is how I operate.

[Lauren Taylor]

And there have been several occasions, it doesn't quite happen as much anymore where the client is there and they wanna look over my shoulder and be the third cook in the kitchen. And that doesn't help either of us.

[Caroline Turner]

No, no, no, no.

[Lauren Taylor]

And if you can do it right after install day, even better. Oh my gosh.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh my God. I know that's the dream that we've never been able to make reality. But that sounds so nice. I think it's if it vacation home. That is when you can make that happen. It's often if it's like, you know, they have three kids and it's their main home and their, their kids come home from school. Like that whole thing can get murky. I want to make my intentions very clear. I've talked a lot about money and maybe in the perception that I was complaining what you just said, which is that you do this every single day. Like this is your entire job. Photographers are worth the money. Like waiting to find someone that you vibe with and knowing that you can tr. I can leave the room for an entire series of shots and know that my photographer and my stylist have got it and that is worth every penny. Also they're fucking talented. But it's also the piece that they are that experienced that they're able to have everything run smoothly and no one be the wiser. And I do think just like plumbing, just like a couple of other areas where we're always recommending that be where you concentrate some of your money. If you can even, like, hold a. That's what we try to do is, like, hold part of our retainer for photos. So that way it's like, it's not eaten up in the process. But I do think it's worth finding the right photographer spending more. Cause I've spent 4,000 and 6,000, and the 4,000 were unusable, and the 6,000 were in a magazine. And at the end of the day, that $2,000 is really nominal with everything else you're paying for. So to make sure you're finding someone you vibe with that you're gonna trust. I mean, it's the only way.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caroline Turner]

Okay, last question until we wrap up. What's the craziest experience you've had on a shoot?

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, now, this is the one in the shower that I was really terrified of. And you know what? I don't even know if I have an answer for you, because I'm terrified. I really am terrified of that question. But I also have, like, a terrible memory. I'm just. My parents will be like, oh, God, she doesn't remember, like, a week ago. And a part of me thinks it's because, you know, they say when you have children, like, you forget childbirth, what childbirth feels like. That's why you have more kids. So that I kind of wanted this situation is that I always kind of move forward from things, and I don't remember a lot of these experiences. Yes, there have been lots of instances where I'm just like, I need to get out of here. Oh, my God. I just thought of one.

[Caroline Turner]

Amazing.

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, my gosh.

[Caroline Turner]

If it makes you feel better, we'll tell one, too. Oh, yeah, we have a good one.

[Lauren Taylor]

And I don't even know how to pinpoint exactly what it was, but it was just that my client. This was definitely his vacation home. And I'm already saying it's a he, so. But that's okay.

[Caroline Turner]

And I doubt he listens.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah, no, no, he doesn't. He was the client from hell for my clients.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

And warned me.

[Caroline Turner]

And I was like.

[Lauren Taylor]

No, no, I. I deal with this all the time. Oh, my God. He was up in my shit for, like, weeks with emails about the images, and he wants to Use them for this and this and this. And it was out of control. And we should have shot it different. Differently. Yeah. Like, should not have any input and how they're shot. It was. It was really difficult. Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

What does he have to do? Was he paying for it? Because that is crazy.

[Lauren Taylor]

No, no. He was just a control freak on the outside. Oh, my God. My poor client. I will say that.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, she worked with them a lot longer. Yeah. I can only imagine when he was, like, during that process. I will say. And I will just say this with my full chest. Men, single men. Being a client, it's a no. For me, it's a no. We don't take them as clients. I just. I've had one, and it wasn't the best experience. And I just don't. I need a woman's touch there to be able to look at her and be like, he's such a fucking idiot. Right. Yeah. Okay, great. Moving on. And, you know, every client has their thing, but that's one of the ones that we do not take.

[Lauren Taylor]

And I like the water bottle at that project.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. God.

[Lauren Taylor]

And it was my, like, my cherished water bottle. And normally I would go back and get it.

[Caroline Turner]

No.

[Lauren Taylor]

Because I don't live far from it. But I was like, cut your losses. I'll buy a new one. That's it. See you later.

[Caroline Turner]

I love that. Well, very quickly, we'll say one of our shoots. Gracie's sitting next to me, and we're giggling because, I swear, Gracie is, like, very graceful. Like, she's very, like, very. Did you. You didn't know this is what I was gonna say, did you?

[Lauren Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

No. I swear to God, our shoot days, she easily dropped 100 things. Like, dropped every single thing. She was literally everything shoot day. To the point where we dropped a full vase of flowers on a leather ottoman. Like, it was. I'm literally bawling my eyes out. The client is, like, laughing at me, and she's like, it's fine. And I'm like, no, it's not.

[Lauren Taylor]

It ruined it.

[Caroline Turner]

She's like, no. Like, it's really fine. We dropped a mirror.

[Lauren Taylor]

We dropped so many things to the.

[Caroline Turner]

Point where we were all just cackling towards the end because we're like, this is like, something in the universe that's, like, the original pull is opposite of what it normally is. Because what is that so bad? Just a disaster.

[Lauren Taylor]

I will say that being an interior photographer has really taught me how to be, like, a ninja. I just.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[Lauren Taylor]

I know how to Walk into a space in a way is almost. I'd say I'm pretty grateful. Graceful.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

You know, you're.

[Caroline Turner]

I think you have to. You kind of have to tiptoe on glass. Yeah.

[Lauren Taylor]

Yes. It's an art. Art. Art.

[Caroline Turner]

CTI's tagline is interiors that make you feel. So what's something that made you feel recently? It doesn't have to be about interiors. It can be about anything.

[Lauren Taylor]

Oh, it can be about anything. I'm gonna cry.

[Caroline Turner]

That's okay.

[Lauren Taylor]

Because my son. So I have a 17 year old and a 16 year old and a 2 year old. This is not related. Yeah. But this just gave me this morning is we were gone for the last two days out of town. My husband works with me. He's my assistant.

[Caroline Turner]

I love that.

[Lauren Taylor]

And so we were gone for two days for a shoot out of town and he went to my in laws to stay who are lovely. And they. He loves them.

[Caroline Turner]

Mm.

[Lauren Taylor]

But he's young and he just started school recently and he kind of feels. I don't know, I'm wondering if he has a little bit of abandonment issues.

[Caroline Turner]

Starting and I'm just so fearful.

[Lauren Taylor]

So he went to school kicking and screaming this morning. And that made me feel. Because I remember being in fifth grade and all I wanted to do was call my mom to be picked up because I was just homesick. And that's what I dealt with this morning.

[Caroline Turner]

Totally not related to that. We're human. That's why I asked this question. Because our lives are not interior design and there are so many other things that we are dealing with and going through. And I think it's very applicable. So many people, I mean, in the world obviously, but in this profession are moms. And I think that that mom guilt and splitting your time and am I doing the right thing? Like, you're always feeling like you need to be somewhere else no matter where you are. That's a universal feeling. And I think a lot of people will relate to that. Knowing that your kid isn't the happiest they could be. But there's not. There's nothing you can do. You have to send them on and you have to let them live their life and you have to do. I remember that from being a child too.

[Lauren Taylor]

And you're like, I'm gonna be. I'll do this again. And I want him to, you know, kind of bro with the business and, you know, my husband working with me, which is a change. So, yeah. I could speak on an entirely new podcast that's all about moms. And. And work well.

[Caroline Turner]

I was just gonna say I would love to have you come back on and talk about working with your husband, because that's also such an interesting dynamic in relationship.

[Lauren Taylor]

That's fun. We have very good dynamics.

[Caroline Turner]

That's the dream. I mean, that's awesome. Amazing. Congratulations.

[Lauren Taylor]

Thanks.

[Caroline Turner]

Well, thank you so much for being on. This has been incredible. Where can we find you and where can people reach out to hire you?

[Lauren Taylor]

You can find me on Instagra, the big bad wolf that we've been talking about all day. LaurenTaylor Creatives, Auren Taylor Creative, and then laurentaylorcreative.com and I live in Los Angeles, but I shoot all over the place, so.

[Caroline Turner]

And your work is incredible, and I can't wait to see what's next. Thank you so much. Thank you so, so much.

[Lauren Taylor]

This has been. This has been fun.

[Caroline Turner]

So fun. This was so fun. I had the best time. And thank you for being a good sport about all my crazy questions.

[Lauren Taylor]

Absolutely.

[Caroline Turner]

Thank you all so much for listening. Until next week. Peace be with you. Bye.