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- [00:04]
A
Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school, because, let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Hi, everyone. Welcome to our final episode of season two of Confessions of an Interior Designer. I wanted to do a solo episode for this final because we never get to talk directly to each other. And I know that sounds a bit parasocial, and I suppose it is from my side, but I really do value all of our listeners and all of the people who have made this podcast possible. There would be no reason for me to do this if there weren't other people on the other side listening. So I really, really appreciate it. And before we get into all the nitty gritty, I wanted to make a couple of acknowledgments. One, like I said to all of you who have been listening, this is something that, when I started it, I had no concept of what this could be. All I knew was that I wanted something that was discussing the messy middle. The part that I felt like was being left out of the conversation. There was so much discussion around, how did you get here? Meaning, how did you get to your level of success? How did you do this? How did you make it? And I was in the moment where I was like, I haven't made it. This doesn't apply to me. And if anything, it makes me feel bad, and if anything, beyond that, it makes me want to change my process and not trust myself. And so when I had this rattling around in my head, I was like, okay, well, you know, what if it was just, like, all of us talking about the shit that we get wrong? And while it sometimes gets away from that a little bit, I do think the heart of this show is that none of us are perfect. Even the most, you know, important people I've spoken with have plenty of stories of times they've fucked up or mistakes they've made or things they would change. And most often, I'm hearing people say, oh, my God, I was such an idiot. I can't believe I did X. But they end up following that up with, but it made me. It got me to where I am today, or I learned X, Y, Z because of it. And I really do think it's. Ultimately, if you weren't in the arena, you wouldn't even be able to make these mistakes because you wouldn't be there doing the thing. And that is something that helps me every day and I hope has Sort of been the thesis of this. But with that being said, as I said, I really value the opinion of all of our listeners. And so whenever I see you guys in public or we're at an event together or something, it's always so helpful when I get feedback from you guys. And I've tried to adapt every time, but I would love to hear from the wider audience as we're thinking and dreaming about season two and the potential of that. What do you guys want to see? Have we run our course? Is this something you feel like you've heard enough of? We get it that people aren't perfect. Is this something you want to hear more of? If you do, who would you want to hear? What do you want to hear us talk about? Are you rocking with how we are right now, or is there something you feel we could do better? I don't always ask for feedback on the Internet or out to a wider audience, but this is one that I really would value if you guys would take the time. Also, we're hoping to do more events and things in the future, so keep an eye out for all of us to be able to see each other in person. The other thing that I want to mention, and I know that not all of our guests who have been on the show listen, but for those that do, I just want to extend a heartfelt thank you to the people who have agreed to come on the show. When I first started season one, we did. We said we were going to do solo guest. Solo guest. Solo guest. Because I genuinely didn't think there was enough people who would want to be a guest on the show. And I just, yeah, got smacked in the face and realized how many people are yearning to talk about things like this. And so it has just been one of the highlights of my career to be able to sit next to people I admire in all different ways in this industry and pick their brain and find out all of the things that they've gotten right and wrong. And I know as someone who runs a business, all of our time is incredibly valuable. And to be able to be willing to exchange that knowledge for all of the people who are listening to me right now, it's something I'll never take for granted and never take lightly. But, yeah, I've just. There've been some days after I record where I'm like, I cannot believe I just got to have a full conversation with that person. It is something that I am very, very grateful for and that you guys have all given me. And of course, thank you so much to our sponsors, Programma and Designer Receiving. We couldn't have done this season without you. If you're potentially interested in sponsoring the next season, please, please, please please please email confessionsaroleturner co and if you think there would be a good sponsor, email us or tell them to come talk to us. Talk to us, talk to us. Here's a confession I know a lot of you can relate to for years I told myself I had my project management under control. Sure, I had 30 different tabs, docs and emails open at once, and yes, I'd occasionally panic search for a specification at midnight. But I was still managing. Right then I tried Programa and I realized I wasn't managing, I was just surviving. And barely. When I demoed the platform, I was most impressed by their incredible AI web clipper that pulls every single spec from a supplier's webpage straight into your product schedule. We're talking product details, dimensions, pricing, finishes, everything captured in seconds instead of the hours we used to spend copying and pasting into spreadsheets. It saves me so much time, and most importantly, it's given me back the headspace to actually focus on design instead of drowning an admin. So here's my advice. If you're serious about streamlining your design business and actually reclaiming some time in your day, head to programa.design and use code CONFESSIONS25 to get 25% off your annual subscription. Trust me, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it. Let's get into the confession. I used to work at a fairly well established design firm that had been built over decades by a very talented founder, a woman in her 60s who was widely respected in the industry. She started it as the principal designer and built it over the years to be a respected name in the industry, well known locally, and at this point had a handful of lead designers, me being one of them. During the time I was there, the founder announced her retirement and told us that she was relocating across the country. The plan was that her daughter, who was in her 30s and came from an art background, would take on the leadership of the company. She told us that she really valued the idea of a family business and wanted to continue on the legacy. Wow. Internally, people were skeptical. The daughter had gone to school for art history and had no real background in interior design. She would be managing the company but had no training in the industry in which it operated and none of us had ever met her. It seemed that she truly had no interest in the company whatsoever and was simply inheriting it as an Afterthought, no one wanted to be outwardly negative about it, but people were not thrilled. But whatever. I'd worked there for almost five years, and I wasn't the most senior there by far. This was a company that had a strong reputation and an established client roster. How much could that really change? Well, the first few weeks after the transition, the daughter made a very visible effort to be present. She was in the office meeting everyone, sitting in on product reviews, going through client lists, introducing herself directly. But honestly, there was a sense of performance to it, from my point of view. Like, when she'd be in the office, it was a lot of commenting on the feng shui of the office, the decor we had on the walls or lack thereof, little things like that that weren't important. It seemed like she was trying to position herself as an expert where she wasn't. She would bring things into the office to decorate, and to the rest of us, it just felt like clutter. It was a little odd, but I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. She was new, and it did feel like things might settle into a rhythm. But that optimism lasted for all of maybe a month. She'd been working, quote, remotely more often while we were all consistently in the studio working. That soon became the default for her. We didn't see much of her after that month, and it wasn't like she was involved online either. She'd move meetings all the time or tell us she couldn't make it and to just brief her on it after. And the times that she would join, she'd often have nothing to contribute. And this was bad because as part of the restructuring, her role was supposed to be the main point of contact for clients to then be delegated to us. That was a mistake. So when she became harder to reach, everything started to hit obstacles. Approvals were held up, leaving clients waiting. We often couldn't move forward without her involvement. She was also consistently making poor financial decisions, like putting lots of things on the company card. And a few of the more senior designers felt like they were not respected by her. It created quite a lot of friction. And then, and I still can't believe this, we'd see it. Her shamelessly posting on social media from different countries or cities during these periods where she was supposedly working remotely. Like, she'd be in Paris one week and then in the Hamptons, posting as if her account was not public. She genuinely either thought she was pulling a fast one on us or thought that this was just fine for her to do, since she was the Boss. She thought it was fine for her to do guaranteed. But once this started to happen, there was much more outward dissent in the office and she was never there. So it became the tone. No one was happy. We'd have clients asking directly for her and there wasn't always a clear answer about when she would be available. That kind of uncertainty was a problem because clients already tend to be cautious and especially when we had these multi generational clients who trusted us and were using us for second and third homes. It was just a bad look. The moment I really knew I had to leave was on a potential client call we had been trying to organize for weeks. It would have been a significant project for me and the meeting had already been moved twice because we couldn't confirm she would be there. That's so annoying. On the day of the meeting, we were all on the call waiting to connect and she joined late without having reviewed the latest updates. The client started asking fairly direct questions about direction and timeline. And there was a long pause where it became clear she wasn't familiar with the detail needed to answer answer them. The client did not sign with us. I left not long after that and I wasn't the only one. A few other designers left right after me and as far as I know, only a couple ended up staying and they were young. About a year later, I got drinks with a couple of the other designers who had worked with me and one of them shared that the company was restructuring again and significantly downsizing. I almost felt bad because I really did love the original founder and enjoyed working for her. But this had been a really poor business choice on her part. Not long after that, the firm fully closed. They were no longer in business. Their website was not up nothing. The daughter had run the company into the ground. I can't say I didn't see that coming and I'm glad I got out when I did. It actually was the catalyst for me starting my own business. So it all worked out in the end. Wow. I mean, I love that there's a happy ending. That's always good, it's always uplifting. They have a lot to say about this because I cannot. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is a mother's love is very blind. It would take a lot for me to put my child in the like CEO position of a company I built from the ground up when they did not work in the industry and had never worked at the company. Family businesses are amazing and I know there's multiple designers that I know that work like mother daughter work together. And that makes complete sense. You can secede the company to them whenever you, you know, retire. And they already have all of the information, all of the client knowledge. People are familiar with them. Like, that's one thing, and I think that's incredibly valuable and really sweet, honestly. But this is another thing entirely. This is like nepotism, but for running an interior design firm, which is so weird because it's really hard. Like, why would you. If I was a Nepo baby, I'd just be like, just leave me on my yacht. Like, I don't want to come run your company. I don't. I. And I'm putting words in their mouth. I'm not saying that they were. She was an EPO baby necessarily. But like, this is strange. I mean, my dad's an attorney. Like, he can't like give his business. Like, that's, it's just doesn't make any sense, especially in like a highly specialized industry. This is not like just a business. You know what I mean? This is not just like the CEO of some random company. Like, it's, it's specialized. So I feel that, that. I don't know how she didn't see that coming. Which. It's so interesting that someone who had made such good business decisions seemingly up to that point, because she got to where she was in the industry, to then sort of burn it all down by putting her daughter in the managing role is a choice, that's for sure. As this person said. I also think. Does being a mom make you think your kid is good at everything? There's something that's like, there's a little bit of delusion there. What? In what world? I just. At least it wasn't a man that she brought in as her successor. But I just, I mean, yeah, of course, it's no surprise she ran it into the ground. It doesn't sound like she was equipped. And in some ways that was the original business owner's fault. Like, she knew she wasn't equipped. But it's still, I mean, absolutely heartbreaking that, that you would want to pass this on to your daughter, your legacy. And then, yeah, she ran it into the ground. That's also. God, you would have to think that would affect. That would affect the mother daughter relationship. I wonder if they were close before. I wonder if they still are. I wonder. Yeah, I want more information. Really. I wish I knew what this was so I could google it, because I want more. But I, I think it's sad all around. The best part is that this girl Left and started her own business, which, if anything, seeing the writing on the wall and jumping chip while you still can, I feel like is never a bad idea. At least that's my takeaway from this. Maybe the reason I said Nepo baby is because the behavior is really giving Nepo baby. Like, you think you can come in for a month and just introduce yourself and be like, this pillow should be here and the feng shui should be here. And then you get to go to Costa Rica for six and like not do your job. Obviously not so. But that is very like not having to work for anything vibes to me. Because as most of us know who run a design firm or even work for a designer or are in this industry, you miss even like a month of time and you've held everything up. Products are stalled, months, potentially. Like everyone's mad. It is just, I mean, it's a nightmare to be gone that long. And I really envy the designers who have gotten to that point where they can sort of just make the high level decisions. But it's, I feel very rare and I would be shocked if this company, clearly this company was not set up to run that way. Like, that's the other thing. If you know you're working for a company that their founder is the name on the door, but they're not necessarily involved, that's one thing. But this was like a switch up. I guess we need some penance. I feel like the mother got her penance. Unfortunately, I feel like her penance was the result. I think the daughter probably needs her credit card taken away. She should probably be grounded. Let's ground her for a couple months. She's not allowed to go to like Thailand or wherever she wants to go. And maybe she needs to start earning some of that money back. Because the other thing I was thinking when I was reading this is, oh, my God, that woman could have sold this business. Like, if this was as successful as the person who wrote in is saying, they could have sold that for, I mean, a significant amount of money. So not only is it a risk just like to keep the business alive, but you could have retired with, you know, who knows how much. And I do find that so interesting, the idea of like buying an existing business and all of that. But I digress. I just think it's, yeah, it's a loss all around. So that poor mother. Yeah. And then, I mean, penance for the person who wrote in, girl, I think you did the right thing. I really have penance for you. Other than maybe treat yourself to Like a martini and a steak. Because you did the thing and you started your own business when it would have been much easier to go work for someone else. Which leads me to some questions that I hear people have for me. So Claire is actually going to join us. Join us, join us. Remember when I said Designer Receiving wasn't a sponsor and I just genuinely wanted to share how wonderful they are? That was true. But this episode is now officially sponsored by Designer Receiving. They work exclusively with interior designers to handle everything from receiving an inventory to storage and installation. But what truly sets them apart is how much they care and go out of their way to make sure every project goes smoothly. They're organized, tech forward and people focused, building genuine relationships with the designers they work with. If you want a partner who truly has your back, Designer Receiving is it. Check them out@designerreceiving.com. Claire is our podcast producer, so I really should say Claire is like the one who makes this podcast run. So a producer, but a very, very important one. And she is going to get into some question. So I'll let you take it away. Hello.
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B
Okay, question one. How did you know when it was time to start your own business?
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A
This is kind of a juicy story that I haven't really told on the pod, but I was fired. I was fired from a job that I thought was my dream job. It was not. I was so miserable and a bad employee, which hence the reason I started my own firm. I was never a very good employee, but I had worked for quite a few high profile designers and learned a ton. Some good experiences, some not. I feel like I learned just as much about what I do not want and what type of boss I do not want to be as much as I learned what I do want and how I do want to be. And so I frankly had age on my side, meaning that I was very young still. I was 24 and stupid, like, just very naive, which, as I've said, sort of can definitely work in your favor. But I just didn't feel like I had it in me. I just had this knowing that I needed to do this on my own. Even if I failed, I'd rather be doing it on my own than succeeding with someone else. And that's when it became pretty clear to me. My mom and I had a conversation. I was in tears. I was like, what am I gonna. And then I had decided, you know, it probably took me a couple hours. Knowing me, nope, I'm gonna start my own business. This is the decision. I called her and she was like, Wait, what? No. What? What? And I said, mom, what's the worst that can happen? Like, I fail, but it's okay. There's very little consequences for me failing. Yeah, I mean, I'll be broke, but I'm kind of already broke. I'm 24. Like, the stakes are incredibly low. The only responsibility I had was Piper. So, I mean, I. Yeah, I was renting. Like, it was not. So I just felt like there was very little holding me back. And if anything, it felt very clear to me that I needed to do it then so that I had time to fuck up, if that makes sense. So, yeah, thank you to the person who fired me. You know who you are, and I appreciate it because I wouldn't be sitting here if they hadn't.
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B
So true. Okay, question number two. What is the most valuable investment you've made in the business?
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A
It's hard to quantify, but I think bringing on a social media manager, honestly, I mean, I wanna say accountant, because that is so crucial, but they weren't that. Like, they're expensive, but they're not that big of an investment, comparatively. But that was definitely my first, best big investment. But I would say, you know, we brought on a social media coordinator, like, two and a half years ago, three years ago, something like that, and probably three years ago. And so it's just. It's changed my business in every way and it's. I mean, the ROI is insane. So I have found that that was probably, yeah, the most valuable investment. Of course, I think really, the whole team, like, every time we add someone, you guys hear me say, like, can't believe we lived without this person. How did we do it without this person? So I do think that that is. Generally the investment is in my team, but most specifically, social media.
- [21:17]
B
Shout out, Harley.
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A
Yeah, literally.
- [21:20]
B
Okay, what was the biggest risk you took that paid off in the end?
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A
Well, one was starting the business for sure. But I think within the business, hiring before we were ready, it definitely meant that we didn't make nearly as much money for a long time, but we couldn't have taken on the jobs that fell in our lap when they did if I hadn't done that. And I think that's sometimes half the reason we got the jobs. I was so young, the fact that we were available, had the manpower, like, could do what they needed us to do. And then I was able to show how I could execute. I feel like that was really key. Really, really key in the beginning.
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B
Okay, what are three things you learned from your best boss?
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A
Definitely generosity and Creativity. She was so talented and knew it and knew that ultimately she was the one who had the best ideas and the one who was the talent at the end of the day. And so she didn't take anything too seriously. And there was certainly never, like, a power struggle of things that she had to be doing or like, upper senior whoever had to be doing versus interns and junior designers and all of that. Like, it was. It was a bit more democratized. I learned the importance of disagreeing with your client because I saw her fight for her creative vision in a way that I hadn't seen other people do before. And even though, you know, who knows what clients, it's lost me in the past being honest and being upfront and fighting for what I think is best, but it's certainly the clients who get it, get it, and it's brought me the right ones. And I think that that's. She was really, really good at that. She's not dead. She is really good at that. My third answer is the importance of originality. Because even though you can't just be like, I'm original. I'm so original. Obviously that's annoying if you have to. That you're not. But I had experiences where she would, you know, stop full production lines because a fabric was too similar to something that someone had just put out two minutes ago. Like, it was. She was very protective of the end result and it being something that no one had ever seen before and something that was worthy of the investment level that her firm required. And I feel like she was so good at that. It made it very clear. Yeah. Just how valuable her firm actually was.
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B
Okay, so alternatively, what are three things you learned from your worst boss?
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A
I could definitely give you a longer list than three. The first thing I think is the importance of communication. Very direct, honest, early communication. Clear is kind. And the more information you can give someone, the more likely they are to buy in. So I think I'm the type of person that, if you tell me what's going on and why, I will do basically whatever you ask. But if I'm being asked to do something that I don't understand or doesn't make sense, and I know that's not a good thing, hence, again, why I'm not an employee and why I'm an employer, but it's just sort of how I am, and because maybe I was a bad employee, I do tend to cater to those things that I didn't like. And I think it's made a stronger investment level from the people who Work for me because it means that they know where I stand and they can feel confident and not. I always felt like I was about to be fired at any given point, and I probably was. And like, not saying I shouldn't have been, but I probably was. And I think that that feeling is not conducive to a creative environment whatsoever. And that's not just me. I mean, I remember going to dinner with my girlfriend, my design girlfriends early on and just being like, does anyone else want to jump off a bridge? Like, this is hor. Like, it was just very disheartening, I suppose. The next one, I think is kind of the inverse of what I experienced with my other boss, which is there don't have to be. Like there was lots of rules and requirements that was put on us in that job. And I felt like it created very constrained, not even restrained, because I feel like restraint is often a positive thing, but just very pulled back interiors in somewhat of a boring way because there was like a requirement, a book that we had to follow and that is not creatively fulfilling. And the revolving door is just endless there because, I mean, for multiple reasons, obviously. But I do think when you're working in this industry, most people are doing it because they want to be able to flex that creative muscle. And so working for a design firm that you can't do that because there is no room for your creativity is something that is not going to create lasting relationships with your employees. So for me, sometimes maybe they don't want me to. And I'm like, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? So I think it's important for people like us to be fulfilled design wise, fulfilled artistically, or else we look for other things and start doing our own things artistically. And that's how you start your own firm. Oops. Okay. The final thing I learned is that you're setting an example. Whether it's a bad example or a good example, you are the one setting the example as the boss. It comes from the top down. And so if you are fulfilled and happy and healthy and want that for other people, it is such a better environment than the alternative. I think that as much as you can set a bad example, you can also set a great example and being able to lead the way for often what are young women, even just in how you think and how you dress and how you act and how you are to other people, it's a. Yeah, it's a privilege to. I hesitate to say the word influence because I feel like that's been tainted. But to influence the people around you, and you do naturally, as a boss, Boss, boss. The final thing that we're going to do, I thought it could be fun because we talk a lot about clients and how to know if they're the right fit and all of that. So we're gonna do a little red flag, beige flag, green flag on some clients situations. On some client scenarios.
- [27:47]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
Like client scenarios. Yeah.
- [27:50]
B
Red flag, beige flag, or green flag. A client who has never worked with a designer before.
- [27:56]
A
I think this one can go a couple different ways. For us, it's definitely not a red flag. It can be a green flag, but maybe a beige flag. I think that it depends on if they are young, if they, you know, what their situation is. But oftentimes, you know, not at every point in someone's life can they hire a designer. But things change. And so I tend to not try to hold that against people. I do think it requires more education from the designer because you need to be able to. You're not working with, like, a foundation, but it also means that there's no bad data that you have to work against. So I think it kind of goes both ways.
- [28:35]
B
Yeah. Okay. How about a client who has started working with multiple designers but, quote, can't find the right fit?
- [28:42]
A
Yeah, that one. I'm gonna go ahead and say red flag, as I'm sure everyone who is listening knows the. We just can't find the right person. We're just not sure. Da, da, da, da, da. I think it's one thing if it's. They've worked with one other designer, maybe two, in a very special circumstance, but generally, I don't think that that's a great sign that they can't. They just can't find the right fit.
- [29:10]
B
How about your client asks if you want a drink when you get to their house.
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A
This is a green flag, which may sound a little weird, but I just always find that the kindest clients do that, which I always feel bad because sometimes I forget to do it for other people. But I do think it just shows that they value as a person and not just a worker.
- [29:34]
B
Okay. Your clients are a couple, and each person has strong but competing design visions.
- [29:39]
A
Yeah, I would say this is definitely bordering on red, if not just a strong red. I think there always has to be one decision maker, period. So you can have strong opinions, but there has to be one person who has the final say. And in my experience, there's rarely a person who has the final say. In this situation where they both have very strong opinions. So I would say it would read as a red flag to me from the beginning, for sure.
- [30:08]
B
Okay, how about a client that is super busy?
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A
Yeah, I love a client that's super busy. I would say that's a green flag because they're super busy with their job, so they're gonna let me do my job. And often people who are super busy. That's a vast over generalization, I should say. Oftentimes clients who are too busy to be super in the weeds because of their job have to make so many decisions as it is that they really want you to do the heavy lifting and say, pick A, B, C or. And while collaboration is also lovely, sometimes it's nice to just be able to, like, run with it and then present it to the client and have them love it. It's kind of the best feeling ever.
- [30:51]
B
A client who works in construction, I
- [30:55]
A
think some people would say the opposite, but I think this is a green flag because for me, our clients who have worked in construction are more reasonable with timelines, and they understand why something would be a certain way. They understand why there's an upcharge. They understand that there's change orders. All of those things are sort of already in their vocabulary and something that they're not innately fearful of. So typically, it's a green flag. Of course, they can always tip in the other direction if they become quite controlling with the construction. But since we're not the contractor, it's not really ever my problem. Like, they're gonna bother them before they bother me. So I would say it's a green flag. Okay.
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B
A client who won't commit to a scope after two walkthroughs and three phone calls.
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A
Bye. Yeah, it's red flag. I'm sending them an email that says, I'm so sorry, I don't think we're the right fit. Good luck on your project. Yeah, pretty cool. Like, I just don't know. They're never going to decide and they're gonna change their mind a thousand times and you're gonna lose money because they're gonna say it was in there and it wasn't. And it's. Yeah, it's a nightmare. So even if it seems like the dream job, it's not.
- [32:06]
B
Mm. Your client asks your opinion, but then goes and does their own thing completely.
- [32:11]
A
This is when we always ask the famous question in the office, why did you hire us? I mean, this happens for sure. It's very. It can be very difficult to deal with. But also, there's not much you can do, unfortunately. I think that this one's hard because you can't know until you're in it if they're going to do that. Like, sometimes people will be like, I love everything you do, and I trust you, and da, da, da, da. And then you sign the contract, and that night you get, like, an email with 50,000 links that they found. So that one's a bit hard to judge from the beginning, but obviously it's a red flag just on its face.
- [32:47]
B
Okay. Your client says their husband isn't involved and trusts her to make the decisions.
- [32:53]
A
Ooh. Yeah. I mean, dream client, that is. I actually had a client say this to me recently. She was like, my husband trusts me to make it beautiful. And I was like, hell, yeah, he does. Like as he should. And I love. I mean, I don't think it's bad for both people and a couple to have an opinion. I wanna be clear. I just think that it does show their level of trust with each other when one of them can just be like, whatever you think, but not in a way that makes them take on all of the labor, which I think is key, like emotional labor.
- [33:24]
B
Your client says their husband isn't involved, but his opinions start to influence and appear throughout the process.
- [33:32]
A
This is when you're like, yeah, they say, I'm the decision maker. And then they. You have a presentation, and the next morning they send you an email, and they're like, I changed my mind. And it's like, did you change your mind? Your husband changed his mind. But I mean, again, it's one of those things that's like, there's nothing you can do. It's certainly a red flag, but it's also one that you won't know until it happens later. Like, you. It sounds like the dream. It sounds like the one we read before it, which is like, my husband's not involved. I would hop into that immediately. I'd be like, hell, yeah. And then you get duped.
- [34:05]
B
Okay. Last but certainly not least, your client tells you they want to do a white kitchen.
- [34:11]
A
That's a red flag. I just don't want to do another white kitchen ever again. So please don't call me. For them. For them. For them. Yes. Before we go, I thought that I would tell you guys what has been making me feel lately. There are so many different feelings. Right. Obviously, what's happening with our government is making me feel bad every day. But what's making me feel alive is the summer house drama of it all. And I am Sorry if you don't watch it, because I know that this is, like, not my niche at all, but. Oh, my God, there is nothing like. And I don't. I don't even want to, like, diminish it to drama. Like, this is just such a microcosm of what feels like our whole country right now. And so it's just so easy to, like, snap onto and really sink your teeth into because there's so much there. If you haven't watched Summer House, I'm, like, currently waterboarding my entire team to watch it so we can all talk about it because it's just, ah, I need to discuss. I have a couple design friends that we've all been chatting about it and it. Yeah, it's one of those things that's like. It's. While it's not low stakes for them, it's ultimately low stakes for all the people who are. Who are absorbing it. And I think it's just reality TV in general. Like, it's something that. We were just talking about this in the office. There's some people in my office who cannot watch Housewives or anything like that. If they're trying to focus, they have to, like, watch it. If they're just watching something, they can't do something in the background. Whereas it's like my favorite show to do things when it's in the background. Something about the screaming calms me, so I don't know what that says about me, but I do think that, yeah, that's been making me feel something. Okay, well, that's all I have for you. Thank you for indulging me. Thank you all for listening all season. I am forever grateful. Please reach out if you have any thoughts. And until what is hopefully a season three, peace be with you. Bye, Sam.