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- [00:04]
A
Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school, because let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Hi, everyone. Today we're joined by Chandler Pruitt, a New Mexico based designer whose work is deeply rooted in place, materiality, and art. After formative years in San Francisco working alongside leading designers, he returned to the Southwest in 2013 to establish his own studio. His background spans interior design, home staging, project management, furniture design, and fine art consultation, shaping a practice grounded in curation with a strong sensitivity to architecture and craftsmanship. Welcome to Confessions. Thank you so much.
- [00:53]
B
Thank you. I'm really happy to be here.
- [00:55]
A
I'm so excited. This is going to be fun. Okay, so before we get into the very juicy Confessions, tell us how you got here.
- [01:02]
B
Yes. So I was a artist living in San Francisco, and I was a barista, as most artists are, as the best artists are. And I was working in downtown San Francisco, the Union Plaza or Union Square area. And there was all these wonderful window displays everywhere. And I was really trying to figure out, how am I going to be an artist and also make money doing that?
- [01:35]
A
The million dollar question.
- [01:38]
B
And I was always just so taken by these window displays, and it just seemed like a really beautiful way to express yourself and create these beautiful scenes and beautiful environments within this vignette, the window. And I just loved it. And I used to walk around taking a look at these window displays and thinking, oh, one day I should maybe apply somewhere and maybe they'll take me. I don't know. But so I did. I applied and I. My first year, I was with Macy's, and we were doing this window display for the spca, and it was the Christmas window display. So we basically had to replicate the Orient Express, but miniaturized for cats and dogs. And I had a lot of production experience working with wood and paint. I had worked for a sign maker before that, and that kind of got the itch in me, and I continued in that career. I made it up to visual director of Saks Fifth Avenue for the Bay Area.
- [02:51]
A
Good for you. Also, I'm sure that was the heyday. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, like, I'm so obsessed with department stores. And, like, I feel like the time that you're talking about was the. Was the ultimate time to be doing this.
- [03:03]
B
Yeah, we got a budget, and then we had a production studio.
- [03:07]
A
There was one.
- [03:08]
B
And we were able to create beautiful Things like that were unique to our stores and not, you know, and then it really did start to change. And that was actually one of the reasons I wanted to leave was because everything started becoming very quirky, corporately directed. And at Saks Fifth Avenue, like our window displays for Christmas were a big deal. So those did come from the visual direction of corporate. But it was starting to get to the point where it was like, here's a sign. Put it up and dress a mannequin.
- [03:39]
A
We ordered this for all the stores. Just put it up.
- [03:41]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The direction it was going, it was really getting simplified and budgets were being cut and you know, I just decided it wasn't really for me anymore. And luckily I had a friend who was working for a pretty wellness, an interior designer. And he liked people who came from that kind of background from like anything doing, dealing with set design or you know, window display design. So he hired me to work for his team as a stylist. He also had a staging company as a part of his design services. And so I did a lot of that and anytime he had installations, I was doing that. And I also helped with procurement a touch. I mean there was the senior design, the junior and senior designers that were more in charge of that. But it, you know, the designer would be like, I need this, go find it. And so then I would be out on the hunt doing recon in all the stores, trying to find that thing he's looking for.
- [04:46]
A
So been there.
- [04:47]
B
That was sort of like my introduction to interior design. And I learned a lot at that company and really grew a lot as a professional. And then later I went to go work for another interior designer who's part of the 8100 and very well known interior designer in the Bay Area. And I helped her. She didn't really have much of a project management infrastructure in place and there was a lot of stuff she was doing that was really could use improvement.
- [05:18]
A
And so that was a very diplomatic way of saying that.
- [05:24]
B
But you know, she's so talented and so smart and. But I, I just helped her kind of get things organized to, for a project to be run more efficiently. And we started off, we had this one project and it grew and it grew as the company was growing and growing. And before you knew it, we were doing this huge space for them and we were doing a bunch of residential and commercial projects, but we were doing bars, restaurants, offices, and it was great. But you know, she grew so fast. I think she was a little afraid to expand her staff in relation to the project she was getting. And as a result, I was, I just ended up getting really burned out.
- [06:16]
A
Yeah, overloaded.
- [06:18]
B
Yeah, I like sold everything I owned in San Francisco and went to go live in P town. And I was like, yeah, this has been great, but I cannot work 80 hours a week.
- [06:32]
A
No, we're not brain surgeons. What, in what world does that? I understand, of course, especially with hospitality and commercial, very deadline driven industry of interior design. You know, section of interior design. But you know, a couple 80 hour work weeks a year versus a consistent 80 hour work week, that's a very big difference. I would have been burnt out too. My goodness.
- [06:58]
B
Yeah, so I just needed a break and.
- [07:02]
A
Yeah, no kidding.
- [07:03]
B
And I, you know, did a whole bunch of stuff that was way outside of the realm of interior design. And you know, I just like went back to San Francisco and hung out there for about six months and you know, thought, God, you know, I really want to start my own firm. And starting a firm in San Francisco is much more challenging. And I thought, yeah, I'm just going back to my home state. And Santa Fe has a really wonderful, vibrant arts community. It has a lot of like, really wonderful craftsmen. And there's, you know, so many people have second homes here and vacation homes here that it seemed like a natural fit for me to start a business here. So that's what I did in 2013. I opened up my business and yeah, I've just been plugging away ever since.
- [07:58]
A
Amazing. How did you get your first client?
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B
Yeah, so I, when I first landed, the plan was to start my own interior design business. But I started off at a, a furniture sales place and they sell, they sold high end furniture and they wanted me to head off their interior design program. So I started doing that. And a lot of the clients that came to me came in through the store and we started doing interior design work for them. But the store that I was working for, I think they just thought that I was going to be selling furniture and I was doing everything. I was like, I was a full service interior design firm within this, like
- [08:45]
A
furniture within a furniture store. Wow.
- [08:47]
B
And they were like, oh, wait a minute, Chandler. We just wanted you to like sell them a rug and like, you know, lamps and stuff like that and call it interior design. I was like, oh, okay, well that wasn't, that's not really what I'm used to. I'm used to doing like these really huge projects and you know, from selecting paint color to deciding, you know, how big the baseboards need to be to, you know, just all of it. And.
- [09:16]
A
Yeah, the important details.
- [09:18]
B
Yeah. And they didn't really know how to charge for that, and they didn't know how to. They didn't really know how to make that work. So, you know, I just said, well, I'm gonna go ahead and go off then. And, you know, I told my clients, like, hey, if you want to stay here, that's great, but they don't offer the full amount of services that I provide. So, you know, if you want those services, I'm going to continue providing those services under my own firm, my own company, and if you want to stay with them, and that's fine, but I don't. They're not going to be able to help you select faucets and plumbing and lighting and all that. And so, yeah, I think I started off with maybe three or four clients.
- [09:58]
A
Wow.
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B
That went with me. And then from there, you know, it just referrals.
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A
That's amazing.
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B
But that's how I got my first couple of clients.
- [10:08]
A
I always ask or I try to ask people where relevant that. Because I get that a lot, like when do. When. How do I know when to start my firm? How do I know when to leave? You know, I think that's always something that a lot of people are thinking about. So I'm always curious to know when was. What was people's jumping off point, I guess. Lovely. Okay, well. And now you've been in Santa Fe since 2013.
- [10:29]
B
I started my firm in 2013. I think I moved here. Yeah, no, I moved here in 2012, and then I started my firm in 2013.
- [10:40]
A
I'll ask you, like, more specifically later, because I have questions for later, but I'm so curious about the aesthetic juxtaposition of going from San Francisco to Santa Fe. Can you speak to that a little bit? Was that difficult or did you sort of have your own aesthetic and you stuck to it?
- [10:57]
B
I'm from here, so I already understood the vernacular. I already knew what the style elements are of Santa Fe, and. But yeah, I think it did kind of inform me of like, how I want to be different than maybe everybody else here.
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A
Sure.
- [11:20]
B
I would say, you know, the first project I got was pretty successful, and they really wanted, like, Moroccan. They wanted very Mediterranean. They wanted it to be very Moorish. And so even though that's maybe not my personal taste, you know, the first couple years, you just kind of do what you take what people give you. You do.
- [11:43]
A
You cannot.
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B
Whatever. Thank you.
- [11:46]
A
Exactly. Great point.
- [11:50]
B
You know, I would say the first, like four years of my career I did everything from, like, ultra modern to very, very traditional. And, you know, I just took. Could get. And now I try to select my clients based on, are we a match? I really want to grow my portfolio to be more in line with my aesthetic. And, you know, so we've weeded out. I mean, just recently we redid our website, and I think I weeded out like, maybe 10 projects. Wow. But I felt like just don't really speak to the type of design that I want to do for clients now. But that just takes time. I mean, you know, I always listen to podcasts, and I always hear these people that go on these podcasts, and they've just been really lucky that they've been able to, like, you know, immediately put out exactly what they feel is in their brand and in their aesthetic. And. But for most people, I think it takes some time. And, you know, you have to. You have to take on the projects that you get. You have to photograph them. You have to put it out there. And over time, you know, as you build trust with your. With your client base, and they allow you to do more things that are maybe riskier for them or maybe not totally in line with what they are thinking of as a Santa Fe home, you start to show people what you can do and. And build your portfolio to kind of show how you differentiate yourself from the
- [13:33]
A
rest of the market, your own sensibility, while still highlighting what the client wants. I mean, I think that's. That's something we certainly. I don't know if even struggle is the right word, but I've had people say, like, oh, this project looks so different than this project. And it's like, well, yes, one was in Park City and one was in Charleston. So, yep, they are going to look quite different. And almost, I would feel it was an issue if they didn't personally.
- [13:59]
B
Well, and there's such a diversity of architectural styles here in the Southwest. And even though you may get, you know, you have to take into account the architectural style as well as who the client is and who you are
- [14:16]
A
and how they live and all of that. Yep. I mean, architectural style, I think, is what leads me more than anything. I'll often have clients say to me, like, well, how do I know I'll like what you're gonna do? I'm like, well, the house is telling me what to do. I don't know what you mean.
- [14:32]
B
Yeah, well, you have to listen to the house, and you also have to listen to the client, you know, of course. And there's been times, like I did one project where the client really liked very, like, Italian modern, you know, all of that, but. And that's great for their house in Denver, but they bought like a very sort of rustic cabin style home.
- [14:58]
A
And so it's always so funny to me. Some of the houses people buy, then they're like. And then I want this style. What.
- [15:05]
B
And I love that. I love, like, mixing things I love, you know, the old with the new and the sleek with the, you know, with the maybe more rustic. But you really have to find that balance between, you know, the personal aesthetic of that client and what the architecture is telling you. So, you know, it can be a balancing act. And I think sometimes you. It's like any design you want to, you know, you don't want it to be too feminine or too masculine. You don't want it to be too contemporary or too modern or too traditional. Like, for me, I always try to find that balance.
- [15:48]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that certainly balance is something that we're all striving for. It's interesting to me because it sounds like you may be a little bit more tolerant than I when a client, but, you know, we've had a client say we want our home to feel like Nancy Meyers. Then you shouldn't have bought a white box that someone built last week. Like, unless you want to put so much money into it to. Because, of course. Can you bring a new build into that level? Absolutely. Are you going to spend almost as much as you would have spent if you just built a new house how you wanted it originally also? Yes.
- [16:24]
B
Yeah.
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A
So, like, can we do it 100%? Should you. Is maybe the better question, like, should that level of investment be done when there's a home that's down the street that was built for that style of interior?
- [16:39]
B
So that's.
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A
I think what I struggle with is like, let's go down the street to your neighbor's house and we can make this feel like Nancy Meyers threw up, if that's what you want, but leave the house that you bought that is like bachelor pad architecture for that style. And don't get me wrong, I think certainly contemporary architecture with less contemporary furnishings can work, but, like, there is a limit within that juxtaposition, at least in my mind. You know, I just did a big glass box in the middle of the woods, and my sensibility is a bit more traditional. And I really. I don't even wanna say fight, but I had to, like, dig in myself to make sure I wasn't pulling silhouettes that were just too traditional for the architecture of that house. Even if, like, the pieces spoke to me themselves. Is that something you struggle with or you feel like since you've been doing it so long, you've kind of got the magic sauce?
- [17:39]
B
I don't know that I have the magic sauce, but I do. I do. Really. I just said yes. I do really try to, like, guide my clients.
- [17:49]
A
Sure.
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B
The best that I can to making decisions that I think that they're going to be happy with, but that also are not going to look out of place. And. And sometimes there's ways, like if you have, you know, there's a builder I work with and they do a lot of really modern builds, but then, you know, people come and they said, but I really wanted to, like, like, I'm moving to Santa Fe. I want it to feel like Santa Fe, you know, and so I just bring in rustic pieces and pair it with something that's maybe more sleek or, you know, if somebody has, like a really traditional style Santa Fe home, then, you know, we'll do some traditional Santa Fe stuff, but we'll make it kind of like a moment, you know. Sure. And then. And then maybe try and fill in with other pieces that they may feel like they can, you know, dip their toes into Santa Fe's style or, you know, like, interesting for me, I just try to guide them to good decisions. But sometimes, you know, the client is hell bent on what they want.
- [18:56]
A
And yes, of course, sometimes they want what they want. You have to give it to them. I mean, that's.
- [18:59]
B
Yeah, we're providing a service at the end of the day. And. But you had said something earlier that made me think it's best to get your designer involved as early as possible.
- [19:11]
A
Amen.
- [19:12]
B
Yeah. I have clients that, you know, hire me while they're looking for homes, and we do a whole thing of like, okay, what do we want the home to feel like? What do you want it to look like at the end of the day? What sort of lifestyle are you wanting to have when you move here? And then from there we can go take a look at everything that's on the market. And I can help them narrow down their. Their choices.
- [19:40]
A
I mean, find the path of least resistance. There are often, if you work with a designer to your point, early enough, you can find things that will give you the best result for the most affordable price possible. If you're talking to someone who can see the final result in their head already, which, you know.
- [19:59]
B
Yeah. And, you know, we have a client that they're moving from one house to they're going to start looking. But one of the things we can do is we can say, yeah, you can do that, but this remodel is going to cost you this much.
- [20:12]
A
Yeah.
- [20:12]
B
Or, yes, this is nice. And it doesn't really fit all your needs, so you may have to do an addition on there. And that's going to cost you about this much. And so it kind of even helps them in the buying phase to really have somebody there who can help them figure out costs and also lifestyle.
- [20:34]
A
Yeah, I think that's brilliant. I was just joking with my team because I just sold my house. And one, my God, they're much better paid than we are. But two, I sometimes wish that I could have. I had gotten my real estate license and I could be selling people houses that then I renovate for them and only sell houses that I want to work on.
- [20:53]
B
Well, you notice there's a million ways to skin a cat, so.
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A
Absolutely there. Absolutely.
- [21:00]
B
I've heard of some really interesting business models for interior designers where they do exactly that. They buy homes. They, I mean, even. What's her name, Holly Hunt, she's doing that now. She's buying homes, doing these, like, really amazing Renault and then putting them on the market. Don't quote me on that. Pretty sure.
- [21:23]
A
No, I think you're right. Sarah Sherman Samuel does that. So does Kate Marker. A couple of. Yeah, I mean, a bunch of designers in Chicago are snapping up places in Michigan and then doing it. Like, it's certainly. And I mean, it's smart because then the couple doesn't have to live through the renovation process or the building process. They just get to move into a done home. Yeah.
- [21:43]
B
And it's 100% you at that point. It's like the best calling card you can imagine.
- [21:48]
A
Well, and I keep bringing up my house, and I probably will until we're done with the season of the podcast. But I'm bringing it up to say that I'm making decisions very quickly. And I've had a couple clients be like, how are you moving so quickly? And I'm like, oh, that's because I'm decisive. I make a decision and I stick to it. Unfortunately, with the client process, it's just not the same thing. And so things just tend to take a little bit longer, which is okay. But it also means that there's no time necessarily to pivot. Like, on my current home, if I make a decision and I don't like it, it's on me and I pay for it. But I can just pivot. Whereas I feel like in the day to day process with clients, it's not quite the same thing. So there's so much pressure on the like, client and the designer to get it right the first time. Which I think can sometimes create a crescendo.
- [22:40]
B
Yeah, I think your process has a lot to do with that. I mean, I often try to show like the whole thing all at once. Like we'll do like rendering and we'll have everything picked out and we'll kind of. And I just trying to the like, ta da.
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A
This is selling the vision.
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B
And you know, but sometimes you're right. There's a lot of pressure on that. And you know, sometimes it lands and sometimes it doesn't.
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A
And it's the best feeling in the world when it lands. And I have to liken it to when a comedian bombs when it doesn't. And you're like, oh, and you have
- [23:20]
B
a million reselects and you're basically like, you're at the point where you're like, I don't even know what the design vision is anymore. Yeah.
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A
Oh, it hurts.
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B
Yeah, it happens.
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A
Okay, well, I love that. I'm gonna take some of these tips and start using them in my business. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Here's a confession I know a lot of you can relate to. For years, I told myself I had my project management under control. Sure, I had 30 different tabs, docs and emails open at once. And yes, I'd occasionally panic search for a specification at midnight. But I was still managing. Right? Then I tried Programa and I realized I wasn't managing. I was just surviving. And barely. When I demoed the platform, I was most impressed by their incredible AI web clipper that pulls every single spec from a supplier's webpage straight into your product schedule. We're talking product details, dimensions, pricing, finishes, everything captured in seconds instead of the hours we used to spend copying and pasting into spreadsheets. It saves me so much time, and most importantly, it's given me back the headspace to actually focus on design instead of drowning in admin. So here's my advice. If you're serious about streamlining your design business and actually reclaiming some time in your day, head to programa.design and use code CONFESSIONS25 to get 25% off your annual subscription. Trust me, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it. Doubt it. Okay, before we get to confessions, do you have a vice? Everyone hates this question. I really should take it out.
- [25:06]
B
I am a I think I'm a stress smoker.
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A
Okay.
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B
Now, I don't smoke. If anyone asks, I am a non smoker, and I have never smoked a
- [25:20]
A
cigarette, and I haven't either, even though I did talk about it on last week's episode. I have never smoked a cigarette. Okay.
- [25:26]
B
Yeah. But there have been times when I'm like, you know, I'm gonna have a smoke with my glass of wine at the end of the night.
- [25:35]
A
Yeah.
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B
But that would probably. That's the. That's my guiltiest vice. I would say.
- [25:42]
A
You know the meme of Ben Affleck where he's just, like, holding a cigarette and he's just like. Like, you can just tell that he has just gotten in a fight with J. Lo. Like, it is so. And that is sometimes what I feel like when I get home from work. Like, I should just be holding a Dunkin Donuts outside of my home. Like, kill me.
- [26:01]
B
Yes. Yeah. I would say that's my. My vice.
- [26:07]
A
Okay. Well, I think that's a great vice. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Okay, now said confessions. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Last year, I was drumming up more business, so I allowed new inquiries to schedule discovery calls with me before any vetting. Needless to say, I had a lot of calls that went nowhere, but this one went somewhere. As I sat on the Zoom talking to this single man in his 60s, I immediately knew he was not a good fit for us. However, he kept talking and talking and talking, and when I would try to interject, he just kept talking. I was trying to gracefully end the call when the man finally went silent, stared directly at the camera, and started bawling. I had no idea what to do, but immediately had to remind myself I was on Zoom and needed to not make a crazy facial reaction. A grown man talking to me about his home remodel completely started ugly. Crying. Out of nowhere, I asked him what was going on and if he was okay, knowing that this was probably going to take way more time than I was wanting to allot to this call. But what was I supposed to do? Through his tears, he replied, and I can't believe the bastard killed her. I could have saved her. This just became the most interesting discovery call of my life. Suddenly, I did not care about whatever I had planned on my schedule for the next hour because I needed to know the story. I was sad. Long story short, he ended up telling me his life story about how his wife recently passed due to cancer, and years ago, his daughter was murdered by her boyfriend.
- [27:43]
B
Oh, my God.
- [27:44]
A
That is why he was needing to either renovate his current home or build a new one, because he found himself newly alone. That's very sad. Of course, with the way the discovery call started, I hate to say I was skeptical of his story. The way he was talking about his daughter's death, I thought it happened recently, but he ended up sharing her murder happened almost 10 years ago. Something about his story made my spidey signals go off, and I wasn't sure if the story of the murder was actually true. Admittedly, I'm not super great at comforting people, and doing it through zoom was even more awkward. I have no idea how, but I somehow ended the call and sent him the we are not a fit for your project email. I immediately started googling his story. I couldn't find anything that he even had a daughter, let alone a murdered one. I even got my best FBI friend on the case to start doing a deep dive. I ended up spending about three days on this case. I got fascinated with the fact that this man could have lied about something this tragic. I used every bit of information I learned on the discovery call to go through property records, prison records, family trees, Facebook stalking across multiple states, and finally ended at a background check website where I'm partly ashamed and partly proud to admit I paid about $60 to run multiple background checks on him and people close to him. I still couldn't find anything about the murder. Surely a young woman getting murdered by her boyfriend would have made the news. Oh, my God. Finally, on day four, I saw one very old Facebook post from a distant relative that he mentioned in the discovery call that had a memorial post to his possible daughter. After spending way too much time and money on this case, I came to the conclusion that the vague Facebook post was enough for me to drop it. I'm still not convinced that the story of his daughter's murder was true, but it was a good lesson and that I should probably start Googling people after discovery calls just to see what comes up. Yeah, I mean, what?
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B
I don't know. I mean, what do you make of that?
- [29:43]
A
I have so many thoughts because one, I. I also don't pre vet necessarily our intro calls. Like, if someone reaches out and they like, seem normal over an email and we go back and forth and we can schedule the intro call, okay, we typically take it. So I don't think they, like, did anything wrong in that scenario. I would have probably done the same thing. I would imagine is just being like, I'm not sure this is gonna be a good fit. So, sorry. Good luck. In some ways, I'm not the person who does the FBI thing. I don't really look that kind of stuff up. But it sounds like she had, like, a inner sense. And so maybe I would have if I. Because it's a very, very, very weird thing to lie about if he's lying,
- [30:31]
B
you know, I think so. My phone number, like, my cell phone number is what is on my website. Like, if you want to get a hold of me, try. Make it real easy to get a hold of me. Because I want your business. I want you to call me. I want, you know, I want you to, you know. So I think, though, that you're. And also as an interior designer, you're somewhat. Especially in a small town like Santa Fe, you're somewhat of a public figure. Also as a business owner and as a interior designer, you have to put yourself out there a lot, you know?
- [31:08]
A
Yes.
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B
And you welcome. You're. You're basically taking every phone call. If I don't recognize the number, I'm taking it. Unless it says it's a spam call, I'm taking it.
- [31:20]
A
Because you never know who could be calling you. And that one phone call could change your life.
- [31:24]
B
You never know.
- [31:25]
A
But it also comes with risks.
- [31:27]
B
And listen, I get a lot of phone calls that are right off the bat, I can tell this is not it. But, you know, it sounds like she went about things the right way, too. I mean, she. There must have been some, you know, pre discussion on, you know, through emails that led her to think this was, you know, setting up a phone call, a time to. But sometimes people, I mean, sometimes people just. Who knows? I mean, sometimes people are just out there anyway. And I get a lot of out there phone calls from people who are trying to sell me things or trying to understand. They want me to give them a tutorial on being an interior designer over the phone on a phone, like a cold call, you know, And I get all kinds of strange calls. So I don't know. I mean, it sounds like she's a good listener. And I think a lot of us interior designers are very good listeners and we are compassionate and we do care about, you know, what's happening in a person's life. But I do. I will often research a person after the phone call. I've never had a phone call like that. I don't know what I would do. I think I would probably just try and put it behind me. I don't know that I would do any of the research she did, but I would have probably realized that the person on the other end may not be altogether with it.
- [32:47]
A
Yes.
- [32:47]
B
And I would probably just really kind of quickly try and get out of that phone call. But that's pretty wild.
- [32:53]
A
It may be worth switching to phone calls and not zooms. I know that's a small difference, but something about being face to face, but I don't know, that's pretty bold to be lying about your dead daughter face to face.
- [33:11]
B
That's wild.
- [33:12]
A
Is wild. I feel like it's much more likely to happen on a phone call because you're not like human to human looking in each other's eyes. So maybe I'm backtracking on what I'm saying. I actually don't know which is better or worse. I think it kind of goes both ways. One saves your energy a little bit. You can have like a 10 minute discovery call versus a 30 minute blah, blah, blah, blah, blah on Zoom is sort of how I feel about it, but also it's also kind of nice, I suppose, to like look people in the eye and make sure they're a real person who's not gonna. I don't know. This is a. It's a very tricky situation.
- [33:46]
B
What is your intake process? Do you have like, some people have a form that they have a person fill out and then based on the form, they can either set up a call or. But do you like go out to people's homes before you've had a lot of discussion? Because, I mean, when you think about, like if you hear something, imagine if she had gone to his house.
- [34:06]
A
I know, I know. Well, and part of me is like, I don't know that I would have googled him before I went to his house. Like, if I. I mean, granted, if a grown man was crying, well, even
- [34:16]
B
if she did, she wouldn't have found anything. She wouldn't have found that he's like this.
- [34:20]
A
You know, he would have. That's so true. If she's googling him and nothing's coming up, then nothing would come up to even like make her think twice. You're right. There's really no. I mean, to answer your question, the way that we run our process is that we have a form on our website. It's not like a. It's not like a big form. It's just like your name and what you're looking for. I also have my email and my phone number available. I would say 80% of the people come through form, but the 20% that come directly to my email are the people who normally turn into clients. So I find that so interesting that, like, something about them wanting to go direct, it typically means they're like, most serious for whatever reason. But if their reach out seems good, we then send them our onboarding packet, which gives them like a bunch of info about us. And then if they request a call, then we do a call. We give them all of our details. If I like the call, then we schedule a walkthrough. So there's like rungs to it, but still, it is certainly. We've just started charging for consult or for like our initial walkthrough because I had Zoe Feldman on and she recommended doing a donation if they sign with you. So that way, like, you can kind of weed out bad people. Because who asks for a discount on a donation? And it's already happened multiple times. People have asked us to wave the donation. And I'm like, wow, you're really telling on yourself.
- [35:53]
B
You know, I think I'm gonna start doing that, honestly, because I feel like so much time, so much time taken up in the vetting process and, you know, by the time that I've had a conversation with them and then we've scheduled a walkthrough, I've done the walkthrough, then I have to put together a proposal.
- [36:12]
A
Exactly. That's hours of time.
- [36:14]
B
Three hours of my time is gone. And if they don't like, and you know, I'll even tell them point blank up front, like, hey, you're looking to spend about this much before I even go over there, because I don't want to waste my time, but still, I waste a lot of time doing that sort of thing. Either it's not a fit for me or it's not a fit for them or. Or honestly, I feel like a lot of times, there's times when I go to a house and I realize, oh, they want an hour of free advice.
- [36:46]
A
Yes.
- [36:47]
B
And then I'm like, you're not getting anything from me. It's always like, well, we'll get into that more later, or that requires when you sign. Yeah. And I find that if I have to say that more than twice, I'm. They are there for free advice. They want me there for free advice. So I've been hearing. You know, I listen to a lot of these design podcasts and it sounds like a lot of people are moving in that direction of charging for that initial consultation.
- [37:18]
A
I think the donation of it, it's really Not. And I. I held off for a long time. I've had multiple people tell me I need to start charging, and I was very hesitant about it because of what you just said that I want to be able to interview them just as much as they're interviewing me. And I don't want to be beh in the walkthrough because then I feel like I have to. Like, if they want to sign with me, I have to sign them because they paid me. Whereas if I say this is for charity and, like, if we don't sign, it'll still go to charity, like, they're much more likely to be like, yeah, no worries. And then I don't feel guilty by not taking their project on because I didn't take their money. The charity smart. Their choice. Like, they even get to choose where the money goes if they want. So, like, if you're complaining about that, you are a bad person. Cause you're complaining about giving a donation to a charity you care about. Like, that is, like, the blaringest red flag I personally think you can have. I mean, it's weeding out people like crazy for us in a way that I really like. It's definitely saving my time. The other thing is we have a minimum investment level on our onboarding, and that weeds people out like crazy.
- [38:36]
B
Yeah, I find that weeds out people, too.
- [38:39]
A
Yeah.
- [38:39]
B
Yeah. I usually tell people in an initial email, like, what our minimum is, and that weeds them out pretty quick.
- [38:46]
A
Most people are like, okay, and good luck. And you're like, okay, thank you. And that's how it should be. I mean, you know, I think good design can be for everyone, but not every designer is required to work with every price point. That's just. That's just the reality of the situation.
- [39:04]
B
I mean, the. The amount of work that. And personal resources and company resources that you have to put into a job that's at this price point is often similar to just, you know, something that's like 50% more and, you know, so that. That's where, from an economic standpoint, you do have to have a minimum.
- [39:28]
A
Yeah.
- [39:28]
B
Because you know what it costs to run your. And if the numbers are not making sense at the end of the day, then there's no point in even taking on the project. Well.
- [39:41]
A
And, you know, I've prioritized growing my team and having, like, a slightly larger staff, and that means that my overhead is higher. That means, naturally, I am going to lose out on some jobs, and I should, because that job doesn't make sense for, like, A firm of seven people, it makes sense for a firm of two. And I have to tell clients that a lot. I'll be like, I just don't think you need our level of service. You should talk to my friend X. You should talk to my friend X. They have a smaller footprint, so they can charge less and still make money. If I take this job, I'm gonna cost myself money, and, like, it's not worth it. Why would I be paying for someone else to get their dream home at my expense when I'm doing the work? Like. And I've been doing that. I've made that mistake multiple times to where now I'm like, I'd rather just not be as busy because at this point, I'm using up. Like, I'm not in. There's no profiting. I'm just like, we're spinning our wheels using as much as we're being given, and then we're like, back to square one. So that's something that I've really had to figure out for myself lately. I feel like it's one of the harder parts.
- [40:49]
B
Yeah, I think that's the hardest part of any firm that's going through a period of growth or. And I think every designer has to, at some point decide, are we going to scale or are we not? And scaling can be really. It can. It can be risky. You know, that comes with risk. Absolutely.
- [41:13]
A
It's risky. Absolutely. Because if the economy is in a downturn, someone with one person and one employee is a lot more nimble than someone with five employees. So, like, that's just. I mean, that is the reality.
- [41:28]
B
Yeah. So, you know, each designer has to
- [41:32]
A
do some soul searching, weigh the pros and cons. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of that, we need to give some penance. This one is so complicated, I almost don't even know where to start. Designer, I think we gotta talk. I think there's a couple things that could maybe stop some of the, like, weirder reach out that we sometimes get. But also, to your point, it's kind of what comes with the territory of being a principal. You just have to interact with a lot of people that you wouldn't. You don't necessarily get to choose to interact with them. And how you handle it is like, sort of the what matters. And it sounds like, generally speaking, she handled it well. I think maybe avoiding. Well, I was going to say avoiding zoom calls, but I honestly don't even know if that's true. Before we move, I do have just.
- [42:23]
B
I don't think she did anything Wrong. I think she went about it the way it was. She did not do anything with any other. She just got, you know, someone who wants to weird situation more than she wanted to hear. It's like, you know, she got trauma dumped on.
- [42:36]
A
Yeah, that is what it is. Yeah.
- [42:38]
B
And who knows if it was a trauma of his own fiction or real.
- [42:42]
A
Real.
- [42:42]
B
But either way, she got trauma dumped and is it seems to have affected her.
- [42:47]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great way to put it. So maybe her penance is a bubble bath.
- [42:54]
B
Yes.
- [42:54]
A
Maybe she just needs like some relaxation and to like, decompress a little bit. That could be nice.
- [43:00]
B
Yeah.
- [43:01]
A
His penance is a therapist that. I don't even mean that in like a. Like genuinely. I need you to go to therapy. Cause if you're lying, I need you to go to therapy. If you're telling the truth, need you to go to therapy. Cause you should not be crying on the phone with a person you just met 10 years after. Granted, I do not have children. I have never lost a child. I can only imagine how horrific that is. And that's not to say that you can't be in grief 10 years later, but there is a appropriate time and an appropriate place. I actually don't know that that's like. I'm not even saying that that's not information that you should share with your designer. I think it is. I think it's important information. But once you're in the process is how I feel about that. Like, once you get to know each other a little bit and you're like, I just wanted to mention to you, here's my situation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because then I feel that there's like a bit more consent on both sides of like, taking in that information. Because they're a client of yours now, not just like a person you just met for the first time.
- [44:08]
B
Yeah, maybe it was inappropriate.
- [44:15]
A
Number two. I was working on a house in Nashville for my friend who's a songwriter. She wanted to turn it into this really fun, bold writer's retreat. Very Instagrammable, loud, colorful wallpaper, super expressive. And she's a very bold personality, so it made sense. But the project was pretty complicated. There were so many details, like the floor to ceiling wallpaper, staircases, and layers of finishes. No two things were the same color. It was going to be amazing, but it was going to be a lot of work. So we hire these two contractors. I'll call them Chris and Matt. Chris is the one on site doing all the demo. And Matt Is technically the one who owns the business, but he's out getting hip replacement surgery when everything starts. So Chris is running the job. At first, they quote us, we sign a contract, and there's a payment schedule. Like, first draw, second draw, third draw, all laid out. Demo starts. Everything gets ripped out. During this time, Chris is going directly to my client and asking for money early, like, ahead of the schedule. In the contract, he's saying things like, quote, we need to order more paint. There are so many more colors than we thought. We need new materials, all that. And she's giving it to him. I didn't know this was happening at the time. He wasn't telling me. He was only talking to her about it. A big part of why she ended up paying before any work even started Was her business management, an infamous talent company who I will not name was handling her finances and not well. Apparently, they were even paying some of her bills twice, and she didn't know it was a total mess. So then Matt comes back from his surgery and goes to the house to check on everything, and the entire place is destroyed, Fully demoed. Nothing had been built back. And he's like, okay, where's the money to finish the project? We say, what do you mean? That's when we realize we've already paid Chris. Basically everything, Almost the entire contract except the final payment, and the money is just gone. He spent it, mismanaged it. I have chills all over my body, whatever. But it wasn't going towards the project. He just disappeared. So now Matt is in this position where he has to basically start over and re quote the entire job because there's no money left to actually build anything, and my client has to pay again. It was honestly chaos after that. We were just trying to keep the project alive. I ended up living there for, like, six months, helping however I could. I was literally grouting tile myself and even fronting some of my own money at times. Oof. My client was living there, too. In the middle of construction, no working shower, drywall dust everywhere. You could barely breathe. We had to rush to finish one shower just so anyone could function. It was really, really bad. Then we started looking into Chris, and it turns out this was not the first time he'd done this. He had multiple lawsuits, bankruptcies, Like, a history of doing this exact thing, Taking money up front and abandoning projects. His contractor's license had been expired for a long time. He hadn't been paying taxes. There was another house he had done this to, and those people were also trying to sue and the reason the business was under Matt's name is because Chris already had all of these issues. So he basically set it up that way on purpose. Matt ends up having to deal with all of it legally too, on top of finishing our project. And even when we looked into going after Chris, there really wasn't anything to do. He'd already been sued so many times, there was nothing left to take. It would cost more to go after him than it would to recover anything. So he just gets away with it. Meanwhile, the subcontractors who had been working hadn't even been paid for the time they'd already put in. Once everything came. I mean, this is nightmare scenario. Nightmare.
- [48:16]
B
So awful.
- [48:17]
A
Once everything came out, a lot of them stayed and helped anyway. Some basically worked for free because they felt so bad. Like this house had been completely ripped apart and then just abandoned. In the end, the house did get finished. It honestly became exactly what she wanted. This really bold, fun, over the top space. And she lives there now. After everything, she was like, there's no way I'm not living in this house. But it took six months of living in a construction zone and paying for the same project twice to get there. And it's kind of crazy how common this is. I still don't understand how people get away with it so easily.
- [48:52]
B
My God, I feel so bad for her.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah, I know this person personally. I knew this story when it was happening.
- [49:01]
B
The designer or the.
- [49:02]
A
The designer. And it's worse than she's making like it was so bad.
- [49:09]
B
Who did the designer bring the contractor? No, they found the contractor on their own.
- [49:16]
A
The homeowner, the designer and the client kind of worked together. They like did some, some recon from some people they knew there and then they got a couple of recommendations, they interviewed a couple of people and then they chose who they felt was right together.
- [49:31]
B
Yeah, you gotta be careful because people can be charismatic. But then be.
- [49:37]
A
They often are charismatic. It's often the ones that are. That you have to be careful for. The ones who are like kind of looking at their feed and you're like, hello, I'm up here. Those are that you can often trust more.
- [49:49]
B
You know, reputation is everything.
- [49:52]
A
Yes, it is.
- [49:53]
B
You know what I mean? And building a reputation is so important. And this is why. Because if you can be trusted, I mean people spend millions of dollars.
- [50:03]
A
I mean millions of dollars. Yep.
- [50:05]
B
People spend. Some people are putting their like their eggs nest that they are planning on retiring and building this house. And this is their forever home.
- [50:17]
A
This is their fort in a Home, like, and you hire the wrong contractor.
- [50:22]
B
I mean, you really, really have to know that that person has a history of doing projects, doing them well, doing them on time, doing them on budget, and they're not going to fly by night. You know, that is so unfortunate. And you really have to go with a trusted person.
- [50:46]
A
The problem is that the guy who. Sorry, I'm trying not to say his real name because these are fake names. The guy who actually owns the company, Matt, his reputation was fine.
- [50:58]
B
He's very lucky.
- [50:59]
A
And he was the owner of the company. Well, his reputation was fine when they hired him. He hadn't had Chris on his team. He hired him for this job. So the owner of the contracting company should have. In my opinion. And what. What really I felt was not right about the scenario is that the client had to pay anything at all. In my mind, the contractor who hired this con artist and brought him into this home and was letting him accept checks on his behalf, he should now be on the hook for this. Because that would be the same thing as if I was hired for a job and brought one of my staff on and let them accept client checks and then they spent all. The client would be on the hook for that. Not the client.
- [51:47]
B
I don't understand how he wasn't on the hook for it, to be honest. I mean, if it was under his contract as his contractor's license and you know, there. I'm sure he has insurance. He has to have a liability insurance.
- [51:59]
A
Not enough.
- [52:00]
B
And I mean, like all of this, I think would have come down. Yeah. On the person who. Who he said is Matt, the person who hired this grifter, Chris, is the one that should. It ultimately, I agree, bears the responsibility, whether that's legally, financially or whatever. And you know, if they have liability insurance, license, bonded, all that, then he's going to do what it takes to make his client whole again. I would hope you would think.
- [52:32]
A
Yeah.
- [52:32]
B
Even without that, a lawsuit through his insurance would definitely take care of the client, at least in part the client. So, you know, I don't know. I am not understanding why this homeowner, I mean, maybe they were just had a lot of grace.
- [52:50]
A
Well, I have some backstory, Matt. He had just had hip surgery. He was quite old, and he had hired Chris to like sort of help run the company while he was recuperating. And this was like, basically he didn't have enough money. That's the bottom line. The contractor didn't have enough money.
- [53:13]
B
But if he. Is he insured, I mean. Cause the insurance should cover things like this.
- [53:18]
A
He said he was insured, but then when they tried to invoke the insurance policy, it was like so little was covered. And then his insurance just dropped him.
- [53:28]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [53:30]
A
Yep.
- [53:32]
B
Oh, God. It's like a nightmare for everybody from every angle.
- [53:36]
A
From every angle. And Chris the motherfucker just gets to ride off in the sunset with $200,000 and no repercussions. Every single person in that situation had repercussions, but the one who fucked everything up. I mean, also, we'll offline on the management company that did this, but think about a talent management company. You don't know a lot of names, right? Most people don't know a lot of talent management company names. It's the one, right, that you're thinking of, and it is terrifying.
- [54:11]
B
You just have to. I mean, like, anybody who is buying a home and they plan on renovating and hiring a designer or hiring a builder, you have to vet those sources. You have to make sure that they're, you know, good people. And I. I mean, not a single penny leaves my desk without me knowing what's happening with this. So if you have financial people that are supposed to be handling your finances, I mean, it sounds like a reputable company, but something. It sounds like something went terribly wrong.
- [54:48]
A
Terribly, terribly.
- [54:49]
B
Right. The whole thing is a nightmare, nightmare, nightmare scenario. It's like a tornado of the perfect storm of horrible things lands on her front door.
- [55:02]
A
Like, and how is that even possible?
- [55:03]
B
She has to deal with all of this.
- [55:05]
A
Yes.
- [55:07]
B
And did she have, like, were people coming to this retreat center? Like, did she book it out?
- [55:13]
A
So it was like a songwriting retreat that she was doing for all of her songwriting friends in Nashville. They all lived in la.
- [55:21]
B
And the woman who was there was like a. There was a deadline, right?
- [55:25]
A
There was a deadline. Correct. They had to cancel everything. They had to, like, say, basically, you can't come, sorry, we're not gonna be renting this out for the foreseeable future. Find studio time somewhere else.
- [55:35]
B
It was a fyre fest of Nashville or whatever.
- [55:38]
A
Well, and that's the other thing that I wanna say is that Nashville a lot. Okay, I won't even say Nashville. There's a couple cities that at least three years ago, when I heard this statistic, Nashville had more cranes in the sky than anywhere else in the world. Not just in the country, in the world. More than Shanghai, more than any of those countries and. Or any of those cities. So I do think that, like, especially if you are trying to get things out, like a deal Quote, unquote. And you are working in a city that has lots of work happening. You have to be extra careful. Like, extra careful, because there are so many people that are moving to that city just to do work, because they know how much is happening. So they can say, yeah, in Pittsburgh, here are all my projects. Here's everything I did. And then it goes to shit when they're in a new market. So I've had this happen when I'm trying to help clients hire, when we're not living in this. In Park City or wherever. I mean, Park City, we had a horrible contractor experience. And that's an example of another market that there is so much work going on and it's all so expensive that these, like, slightly cheaper guys know what they're doing. They're, like, trying to weasel their way in, and they. They get the work because they're not $2 million, they're $1 million, but you're still giving a crook a million dollars. So it's something that I think, especially in those. Those markets, you have to be extra careful about. And I mean, you.
- [57:11]
B
That's a really good point.
- [57:12]
A
Like, I have to be extra careful about it. Okay, so penance is there. There's too much penance. Like, I could go on two weeks. Oh, my God. Okay.
- [57:26]
B
I think penance is jail time.
- [57:28]
A
I was gonna say Chris needs to go to jail. I mean, like, that's pretty. That's pretty clear to me. He. He, like, deserves the shoe. Like, he needs to be in for a while. The other contractor, his penance needs to be retiring. I think he's probably run his course in the industry. And, like, if you're having hip replacements and all of. Like, I'm sure he's trying, but, like, I think we should hang our hats up personally.
- [58:00]
B
No, it's a very physically demanding.
- [58:04]
A
Very physically demanding. Yes.
- [58:06]
B
And as you know, we get older, those things get harder and.
- [58:10]
A
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
- [58:12]
B
If you can't, you know, if you don't have people in your sphere that you trust to run these projects, get out.
- [58:19]
A
Yeah, it's not worth taking. I think that's the penance is, like, as a designer, if you're feeling, like, squirrely or there's something weird going on, or you have a feeling or things aren't adding up or whatever, trust that. Because I'll tell you that that certainly was a piece of this, that they were sort of like, that's a weird text. Or, like, why would he say that? Or, why would that happen? And you don't want to believe anything's wrong, you just want to be a good human and sort of like, explain it away. But unfortunately, when working with this much money, any little thing, we have to be so vigilant about.
- [58:54]
B
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree.
- [59:05]
A
Remember when I said Designer Receiving wasn't a sponsor and I just genuinely wanted to share how wonderful they are? That was true. But this episode is now officially sponsored by Designer Receiving. They work exclusively with interior designers to handle everything from receiving an inventory to storage and installation. But what truly sets them apart is how much they care and go out of their way to make sure every project goes smoothly. They're organized, tech forward and people focused, building genuine relationships with the designers they work with. If you want a partner who truly has your back, Designer Receiving is it. Check them out@designerreceiving.com. You speak about curation versus decoration alone. How would you describe this? And what's something that you often see in interiors that feels more decorated than truly considered?
- [59:58]
B
So in curating home, I think that it needs to really be personal. I think, you know, those pieces need to feel like, I love a piece that comes from a family member or comes from your heritage or is reflective of who you are as a person.
- [60:17]
A
Meaningful in some way.
- [60:19]
B
Yeah, meaningful in some ways. So definitely curating a home is meaning, like, everything doesn't need to match. It doesn't all have to go together seamlessly. It can feel a little funky or a little weird. And that's okay. As long as there's like, a personal connection to that, I think that that's fine. And we do a lot of art curation for our clients. So, you know, there's a lot to be said for people who, you know, are like, I don't really care about art. Just get something that matches. And I. I kind of hate that because it's like, you know, I'd rather just pick out pieces that you really identify with. And, you know, sure, maybe it goes with the color theme that you have going with your home, but more importantly, are you connected to it? Because people hold onto their art collections far after they absolutely move homes.
- [61:16]
A
Yep.
- [61:17]
B
Change their decor. They always keep their art that's going to be with you forever.
- [61:22]
A
Well, and it gets passed down, so it can't just be. My mom likes this painting because it matches the living room. That's not very sentimental. My mom loved this painting because the color of the blue reminds her of where she grew up. On the bed, like, or whatever it is. Like, at least to your point. It doesn't have to, like, not work with the room, but the client should have a feeling about it. I mean, I've had designers say, like, we walk clients through galleries, see what they respond to, and then based on their responses, put those things in the rooms that they work in. And that, to me, makes a lot more sense than, like, this room is blue and green. Let's get a blue and green painting, and then it will work perfectly. It just. It's the soul, isn't there?
- [62:04]
B
Yeah. And a lot of our clients come with a collection.
- [62:07]
A
Sure.
- [62:07]
B
And there's times when we're designing rooms kind of around their collection, too.
- [62:11]
A
I mean, so I almost feel like designing a room around an art collection makes more sense than designing, than having a piece commissioned to the color of a room like we're doing. Yeah. So I. I would rather have it that way, for sure.
- [62:26]
B
And the funny thing is, like, people who have, like, really great art collections, you know, it's almost like that's way more important to them, and it works with whatever space than even, you know, the, you know, anything that I'm putting anything we're doing. Yeah. I mean, like, it's all secondary to. There are people who really love their art collection. Yeah.
- [62:48]
A
Yep. I mean, makes sense. I hope I have an art collection that I can feel that way about one day. Okay. What's a call you've made on a project that felt risky in the moment, but you knew you had to stand by?
- [63:01]
B
You know, I think that. I think that something that comes up a lot is, you know, people worry that live finishes are just going to be not so durable, or it's going to wear over time, or it's going to lower the value of their home. But, in fact, I think it just increases the value of your home. I think that, you know, anyone who is. If you're going to sell your home or whatever, I think people have a soul connection to live finishes that they don't have to. Something like that is, you know, trying to look like something else. You know, So I always try to really. I really try to make sure that my clients understand that and that maybe this. This option is more expensive or maybe it's not technically as durable, but it's worth it in the end because it has more feeling, it has more depth. It's going to patina over time. It's going to, you know, have character. Mm. And that's really, really more important, I think, in the end.
- [64:18]
A
I completely agree. I think that's a great point. I. Something I've been saying to my Clients lately that's really been working is like, I love the idea of your living finishes, people that you love leaving a piece of themselves behind and how they touch your things and if they spill something, like you can pinpoint that moment in time and then people are like, aw, I love that.
- [64:42]
B
Yes.
- [64:43]
A
Score. Okay, before we go, my tagline for CTI is interiors that make you feel. What's something that made you feel recently? It can be anything. It doesn't have to be interiors, but
- [65:03]
B
it can be, gosh, I don't know,
- [65:05]
A
maybe that cute little puppy.
- [65:08]
B
That cute little puppy is giving me all the feels.
- [65:11]
A
It's giving you some feelings.
- [65:12]
B
That is giving me a lot of feelings. Feelings, yeah. Positive feelings, right?
- [65:19]
A
Yeah. No, it doesn't have to be. It can be any feelings.
- [65:26]
B
You know, I. So I worked for an interior designer who is sort of known for using taxidermy in his projects. And for the longest time I was always kind of like, no, I don't think that's really quite. For me or that's not really going to be my. I think people have a really sort of strong reaction to.
- [65:48]
A
Yes.
- [65:48]
B
Taxidermy.
- [65:49]
A
Yes, they do.
- [65:50]
B
And I went to this show, it was called Oddities or something like that. It's like this traveling show. Different.
- [65:58]
A
Yeah, I've heard of this. Yeah.
- [66:00]
B
And it's all kind of weird stuff, but there's a lot of taxidermy in there. And I found this really cool. It's called a Navajo sheep and they grow four horns. And I wasn't planning on buying taxidermy.
- [66:15]
A
Really? You weren't?
- [66:17]
B
No, I had no intention of it. And I saw this four horn sheep and it had the weirdest expression on its face and I just like fell in love with it. And you know, it wasn't a hunted animal. It was. Yeah, yeah, it was a farm animal.
- [66:36]
A
You could feel good about it. Yeah.
- [66:37]
B
And it was a little quirky and I love that. I just loved. I just, you know, it was so off the wall, but I just loved it and I got it and I hung it in my powder room. Why not?
- [66:50]
A
Yeah, I love that. I mean, I'm from the south and so animal busts are, are like, you know, are very common. And so it's something that my mom always had a moratorium on in our house. Was like, absolutely not. But when they moved to the farm, my mom was like, well, I guess there's not much I can do now. Yeah, they can be chic though. I feel like in the right, in the right environment, they can be very chic.
- [67:17]
B
I agree.
- [67:17]
A
You'll have to post a photo so we can see. Okay, last thing. Where can we find you? Social, website, all of that?
- [67:25]
B
Sure. I'm Chandlerprewet.com, spelled P R E W I T T. That's my website. And then my social is Chandlerprewet on Instagram.
- [67:39]
A
Fabulous.
- [67:40]
B
Those are the best two places to find me.
- [67:42]
A
Chandler, thank you for joining us. This was so fun. I had the best time with you.
- [67:46]
B
Yeah, this was a lot of fun.
- [67:47]
A
I'm so glad you think so. Okay, we're getting to the end of the season, so if you guys can please rate, review, all of that. I hate to ask, but I have to. And until next week, peace be with you.
- [67:59]
B
Bye,
- [68:03]
A
Sam.