I confess... the $50k mistake

Summary

Confessions of an Interior Designer – Episode: "I Confess... the $50k Mistake"

Host: Caroline Turner
Guest: Darwin Fitts, Interior Design Consultant and Stylist
Release Date: November 27, 2024

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Introduction and Guest Background

In this episode of Confessions of an Interior Designer, host Caroline Turner welcomes her esteemed colleague Darwin Fitts to delve into the unsung stories of the luxury interior design world. Drawing from over a decade of experience, Caroline sets the stage for an engaging conversation filled with candid insights and humorous anecdotes.

Notable Quote:

[00:44] Darwin Fitts: "I actually study landscape design and architecture... After high school, I realized a creative sector might be what I wanted to go into."

The Journey into Interior Design

Darwin shares his unconventional path into the interior design industry. Initially passionate about becoming a veterinarian, ethical concerns and evolving interests led him to landscape design and architecture. His early experiences, including working at home furnishing stores and doing floral arrangements for weddings, laid a diverse foundation that seamlessly transitioned into interior design.

Notable Quote:

[02:10] Darwin Fitts: "Little nerdy kid thought I was going to be a vet. Through high school, it just wasn't vibing with me."

The Role of Interior Stylists

The discussion shifts to the nuanced role of interior stylists. While many perceive styling as merely adjusting elements for photographs, Darwin emphasizes the depth involved, especially in photo shoots where florals and intricate details play a crucial role.

Notable Quote:

[05:01] Darwin Fitts: "We kind of become this in-house florist at the moment based on whatever's decided in that moment."

Caroline adds that photo styling and daily interior styling require distinct skill sets, highlighting the importance of specialized expertise in both areas.

Personal Vices and the Power of Music

Before diving into confessions, Caroline and Darwin discuss their personal vices, revealing Darwin's affinity for music as a mood enhancer. This segment underscores the therapeutic role of music in managing the stresses of the design world.

Notable Quotes:

[08:13] Darwin Fitts: "I love music. It gets me through so much and makes life so much better for me." [09:03] Darwin Fitts: "I listen to how many genres? I didn't even know there were that many."

Confession 1: The Mouse Mansion

The first anonymous confession, titled "The Mouse Mansion," recounts Caroline's harrowing experience working on an extremely filthy house infested with dead mice. The episode paints a vivid picture of the challenges faced, including a micromanaging project manager who imposed bizarre restrictions like forbidding shoes and speaking inside the house.

Notable Quote:

[11:17] Caroline Turner: "I once worked on a house so filthy that it could have been condemned. Dead mice were literally baking inside since January."

Darwin expresses his disbelief and sympathy, highlighting the importance of hiring professionals who understand the design process without unnecessary emotional interference.

Notable Quote:

[17:12] Darwin Fitts: "We are not the help, period."

Confession 2: The Case of the Swapped Marble

The second confession, "The Case of the Swapped Marble," details a stressful situation where an incorrect, vastly different marble slab was delivered for a high-end kitchen renovation. The initial panic is alleviated when the client surprisingly loves the unintended selection, emphasizing the unpredictability and resilience required in the design industry.

Notable Quote:

[23:32] Darwin Fitts: "That is a nightmare. And it's very scary to think that you think you've kind of gone through a process."

Caroline reflects on the moral that trusting clients and professionals is paramount, and sometimes unforeseen mishaps can lead to unexpectedly positive outcomes.

Notable Quote:

[26:23] Darwin Fitts: "When they tell you this is gonna look great, trust me. When you see it in real life, just be like, okay, okay. Cause then I trust you."

Handling Difficult Clients

Following the confessions, Caroline and Darwin tackle listener questions about managing challenging professional scenarios. Two primary questions are addressed:

1. Navigating Company Acquisitions:
   Caroline discusses the dilemma of her company being acquired by a larger firm, contemplating whether to stay or leave. Darwin advises using such changes as opportunities for growth and finding where one truly belongs.

   Notable Quote:

   [35:55] Darwin Fitts: "When things start to change and they no longer feel like it's what you sync with... it might be what the universe has put in front of you."

2. Dealing with Clients Who Dislike Your Style:
   The second question revolves around handling clients whose tastes starkly differ from the designer's vision. Both hosts suggest evaluating client-designer compatibility early on and, if misalignment persists, gracefully parting ways to preserve professional integrity.

   Notable Quote:

   [38:19] Caroline Turner: "I really respect you as a person, and I don't want this to sour because there's no reason for us to be at odds."

Final Feel-Good Segment

Concluding the episode, Caroline and Darwin share personal moments that have uplifted their spirits recently. Darwin highlights the joy of seeing his friends interact harmoniously, while Caroline recommends the Hulu series English Teacher for its creative marketing success.

Notable Quote:

[41:06] Darwin Fitts: "I've been hanging out with some friends... and it just makes me happy to see all the people that I like interacting."

Conclusion

Caroline wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to subscribe, submit their own confessions, and connect via the podcast's social media channels. Darwin provides his contact information for those interested in his styling services, reinforcing the collaborative spirit of the interior design community.

Notable Quote:

[42:35] Darwin Fitts: "My website is darwinfitsdesign.com and that's where you can request my portfolio if you are interested in my styling."

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Connect with Confessions of an Interior Designer

• Website: carolineturner.co/pages/confessions
• Instagram: @confessionsofid
• TikTok: @carolineturnerinteriors
• Facebook Group: Confessions of ID Group

Submit Your Confession: https://carolineturner.co/pages/confessions

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This episode provides a raw and humorous glimpse into the complexities of luxury interior design, highlighting the importance of adaptability, trust, and professional integrity. Whether you're an industry insider or simply fascinated by behind-the-scenes stories, Confessions of an Interior Designer offers valuable lessons wrapped in entertaining narratives.

Transcript

[Caroline Turner]

Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school, because let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Confession. Welcome back to Confessions of an Interior Designer. Today I'm here with Darwin Fitts, an interior design consultant and stylist. We have had the pleasure of working together a couple of times, and he is beyond talented, a true jack of all trades. And I'm excited for you guys to hear how he got here. So, Darwin, how'd you get here? Thank you so much for being on.

[Darwin Fitts]

Thank you for having me, Caroline.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. I'm excited. I'm so excited.

[Darwin Fitts]

I mean, how'd I get here? So I actually study landscape design and architecture.

[Caroline Turner]

Amazing.

[Darwin Fitts]

And that happened after I decided not to be a veterinarian.

[Unnamed Guest]

I was a speech pathologist.

[Caroline Turner]

I thought I was gonna be an occupational therapist my whole life.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's funny. Cause they're all in the same.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely. And like, none of us are in new.

[Darwin Fitts]

I was completely science based as a kid and.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my gosh, that's so interesting.

[Darwin Fitts]

Little nerdy kid thought I was going to be a vet. And yeah. Through high school, kind of just wasn't vibing with that ultimately for ethical reasons and different reasons really. That came through as I got older and like, realized different things and kind of all of a sudden thought that a creative sector might be what I wanted to go into. So I loved gardening with my grandpa. Grew up gardening.

[Caroline Turner]

So sweet.

[Darwin Fitts]

It was just something that it was. It felt like a hobby. And then I was like, oh, this could actually maybe be a career out of. I actually. I saw shows on HGTV that were.

[Caroline Turner]

You know, inclined towards so many people.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah. And so saw those and was like, oh, this could be a career. And kind of went to school for that and started my own business in Chicago while I was still in college. I was doing landscape design work and drawings and all of that and then started doing installation and growing our client base until I had like 40 plus clients.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, you were still in school.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my gosh.

[Darwin Fitts]

Finishing school. And through that process, met interior designers.

[Caroline Turner]

Amazing.

[Darwin Fitts]

Became friendly with them, would take care of all the projects that they would finish. Interiors. They're like, we have a very good vision of what we want in interiors. We'd like for you to carry that out through the exterior.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Darwin Fitts]

And because I had a background in more English gardens and things like that, my favorite felt like, yeah, there were some designers that I kind of connected with and just kind of became friends with them, asked them about what they were doing, and got to see a lot of beautiful homes through that process of working in gardens. And so it just became more and more in, you know, just kind of excited about what was going on inside the homes as well.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Darwin Fitts]

And while I was still, like, having some little off jobs in college, before my career kind of took off with landscape design, I was working at home furnishing stores. That's just, like, a little job.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Darwin Fitts]

And learn about interiors a little bit more through that. I also worked in florals for a little bit for this, like, wedding event planning.

[Caroline Turner]

And he's done florals for me, and they are insane. It's like, not even what he does as a job, and they're so insane. He should. It's wild.

[Darwin Fitts]

Thank you.

[Caroline Turner]

You're so Italian.

[Darwin Fitts]

But then kind of got hired to work in interior design by a friend designer, and we collaborated on some projects, and then I started doing the styling for their photo shoots, and because of my floral background, that kind of fit. Fit in a little bit. And, yeah, little by little, it just became something that I did more and more and more, and now that's my main gig.

[Caroline Turner]

That is incredible. You're also so talented in that. He did one of our jobs last minute. It was, like, crazy. You had to step in at the last minute, and it was incredible. You killed it. And I really feel like it's so interesting because Chicago is very hospitable. Like, I say that all the time. And I feel like people who don't live here don't get it, but I'm not from here. Like, no one knew who I was, and they were willing to give, like, a young designer who didn't know anyone. And I feel like it's kind of unique to Chicago that we're all, like, willing to let the underdog try.

[Darwin Fitts]

100%. 100%. Everybody that's come into my life and guided me through my career have just been people that heard that I was excited about something. They're like, oh, I have something you can help me with. Like, just give me.

[Caroline Turner]

Which is all you could ever ask for. I mean, that's how you. Yeah. You get your foot in the door. Amazing. That is really great. Thank you for going through that with us. I think moral of the story, and we'll hear this over and over again, is that there's no one right way to. And there's no right way to get there. I mean, I would say that if you hadn't done all of those jobs, you wouldn't be as rich and have as much depth as you do with your styling and interiors job. Now, I also think people don't fully understand, unless you're in the industry, what interior stylists do, because I think a lot of people think it's just like moving things an inch in a photo.

[Darwin Fitts]

Which it is sometimes 90% of the time.

[Caroline Turner]

But like the flower, I mean, you guys do the florals as we're setting shots. I don't think people fully understand how difficult.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah, we kind of become this in house florist at the moment based on whatever's decided in that moment.

[Caroline Turner]

In that moment.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah, yeah. And we do. I mean, I like to say that there's prep work behind it. You know, I always tell people that as a stylist, I'm coming in obviously to help enhance what you've done as a designer. And hopefully there is a common thread through the design. The house has its own personality. And I get to, when you send me scouting images, I get to kind of analyze that. And usually when I go to floor floral market, I'm kind of picking up things that feel like that home. I'm generally going to go for different, you know, scales and things and I have an idea of what I want in each space. But sometimes we're surprised we put something there and it's just not working and then I have to come up with a whole different arrangement. But it's easy if you did your job again and I was able to read that and bring in the right florals that still feel like they fit in the home and anything can go anywhere at the end of the day, you know, floral wise with things.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it really. I mean, it's the thing that is the finishing touch and that's why I don't do my own styling. Like photo styling and interior styling are two different things. You're great at both. But as we know from a photo shoot perspective, I mean, if you're a photo stylist, you're having to like make it look for the photo, whereas there are also interior stylists who are doing it more so for like our day to day living and that whole thing.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

And the fact that you do both in different realms, I feel like is very interesting. You've almost made your own job and your own sort of like, bracket in this industry, which is incredibly impressive.

[Darwin Fitts]

Thank you. And no, it definitely is something that as having background with working with interior designers in projects I understand what we're trying to capture at the end of the day, like, what's important, like, how much work. Like, if I still. If I see millwork or anything, I'm like, this just took a lot of cat drawings.

[Caroline Turner]

So much out there. You understand the level and depth.

[Darwin Fitts]

Can we please make sure we move the camera a little bit right. So we can.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely. Such a good break.

[Darwin Fitts]

And that's, you know, kind of like editing with the photographer and the designer and helping understand how we can get the information we want out of an image to reflect your work at the end of the day.

[Caroline Turner]

And I think the ultimate goal of a designer, at least for me, is that we hire a stylist, and I can walk away and, like, do something else and trust that you're doing it, which I can. And I do think that comes from setting the right tone initially. So that way you have something to go off of, which makes complete sense. Okay, so before we get into the confessions, which I should say are anonymous, and we would love for our listeners to write in and give us all your juicy gossip, or if you have any questions, feel free to send those. You can go to our website for both. Before we get into it, what is your vice? What's the thing that you need in order to make your life a little bit better?

[Darwin Fitts]

Ooh, I love the way you actually asked that. Cause I had a different answer. But now you saying that, I mean, I don't think it's a vice. I think it's just something that I need to make my life a little. Like, it's just music. I love that it gets me get through so much and makes life.

[Caroline Turner]

That's such a good answer, too. I hadn't thought about it before.

[Darwin Fitts]

So much better for me.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

What's your music of choice?

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. What do you like?

[Darwin Fitts]

That's even harder because it totally just depends on how you're feeling. Yeah. And it also depends, like, if I want to change my mood. So, like, I'm big on. I mean, I'm Latino. I grew up with family that listen to music to just be, like, happy music and dancing. And anytime we're doing chores in the house, there is music playing.

[Caroline Turner]

I love that.

[Darwin Fitts]

And so I love it as just, like a mood enhancer if I'm feeling it, but also, like, put in the Adele. You know, if you just want to cry, go for it.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely.

[Darwin Fitts]

I must say that I think I kind of go through all the genres. I'm always shocked that my Spotify kind of raps, because I was like, I listen to how many genres? I didn't even know there were that many. But I genuinely love just to explore music. I think one year it was like, 85 or 87 languages that I listened to. I don't listen just to English music. I love just hearing the vocals and the instruments and kind of like the passion without even knowing the words.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. I love that it's a celebration of someone else's creativity. It's art that translates even when it literally doesn't translate, which is what we're all trying to do. Right. Like, we're all trying to make sure that that is beautiful. I love that.

[Unnamed Guest]

I also heard of someone they listen to. I forgot. Even if I heard this on TikTok or social media somewhere, they say that when they work because I listen to, like, instrumental music when I'm, like, really listening and I'm really trying to, like, pump out some work. But people listen to, like, music from all different languages because they're not so much focused on what they're saying. But you can just kind of, like, ease into the music and the feeling of it, and you kind of just like, get into that close stage and it becomes almost like it transcends what you're doing. And that actually inspired me to do more of that and explore different cultures and genres and music. And you don't have to know the words to enjoy it and appreciate it.

[Caroline Turner]

I need to do that more. Absolutely. I need to do that more.

[Darwin Fitts]

Highly recommend it.

[Caroline Turner]

I feel like I focus so much on lyrics, but you're right, it means that I will do instrumental or whatever when I'm working. There are some songs that I put on, and it feels like my brain zeroes. Like, it's like. Okay.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

It's also good will hunting. You know that movie? If I put it on, I'm gonna be working for four hours. I have no idea why. It's like I go into a trance. It's the weirdest thing. Like, it's happened to me at least three or four times. And now when I have to crank something out, I'm like, good will hunting. Let's go lock in. I love lock in. No, seriously, Seriously, Seriously. Okay. Darwin, are you ready to hear confession?

[Darwin Fitts]

Oh, I'm so ready.

[Caroline Turner]

I'm so excited. Okay, so our first confession. Confession is called the mouse mansion. Are you ready for this?

[Darwin Fitts]

I don't like mice, but let's go in here.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. You're going to hate this one. Then you're going to hate it. Okay. I once worked on a house so filthy that it could have been condemned. And the cherry on top. Dead mice were literally baking inside since January. And I was there in June. I have chills, and I'm not exaggerating. Imagine the stench. No ac. Just the heavy, humid summer turning the entire place into an oven of rot.

[Unnamed Guest]

I can't.

[Caroline Turner]

I had to hold my breath while trying to measure for custom rugs, mentally questioning every career decision that had led me to that moment, which is so true. We've all been there. We're really genuinely, how did I get here? Negative connotation, not positive. Okay. The clients were nowhere to be found. As usual, their stand in, a self appointed project manager, their boat captain of all people, who insisted on micromanaging every detail. He was a character straight out of a horror movie. Not only were we not allowed to wear shoes in the house, but we were also forbidden from speaking inside. There are dead mice rotting and they can't wear shoes.

[Darwin Fitts]

Or he's concerned about. Right.

[Unnamed Guest]

Like, I think we need to focus on the priorities. Like, please, hey, sir, girl boss. Let's figure out what we actually need to do here.

[Caroline Turner]

Do we need to have a Monday morning meeting to get our priorities read?

[Unnamed Guest]

No. And obviously this is all anonymous. Who has dead mice? Like, this many dead mice in their house?

[Caroline Turner]

Well, and clearly this is like a second or third home. Right. And so the idea that you have enough money to have a second or third home, but you don't have. You're not bringing a housekeeper in there every two weeks to, like, keep it. It's so weird what they'll pay for and what they won't.

[Darwin Fitts]

I'm so shocked. I think I don't know what to say.

[Caroline Turner]

Everyone's mouth is just hanging open like, I've gotten past the mine.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

No, seriously.

[Unnamed Guest]

But the boat captain just stops by every once in a while just to be, I guess.

[Caroline Turner]

Okay, what would you do if you went into a house and if one of your designers sent you and was like, hey, can you go do, like, look at finishing touches and, like, get a plan. You go in there and there's literally dead mice. What do you do? Do you leave? Do you, like, call your boss? Like, what happens? What's the next step?

[Unnamed Guest]

Call 911?

[Darwin Fitts]

I mean, just like. Cause I think we've all smelled like, you know, we live in Chicago alleys. We've gone in the back and we're just like. And it's ventilated. We're outside.

[Caroline Turner]

Exactly.

[Darwin Fitts]

And it's like, I start gagging. Imagine, like, something that's been closed that's where I was. My head was still like. But this has been, like, shut for, like, the sun and the heat and, like, months.

[Caroline Turner]

Like, that's just truly so upset. And they.

[Unnamed Guest]

People were going to be in their home.

[Caroline Turner]

That's the thing. It's like they're. Do you know the house manager? Please, I'm begging you. The boat captain. The boat captain sounds like house manager, and I don't think that's really working. Okay. Not allowed to wear shoes. Not allowed to speak. Every whisper was reported back to the owner's, like, state secret. He would turn everything we said into some huge issue and get the clients worked up for literally no reason. Which this has also happened to me. I've had an experience with a house manager where, like, small things go wrong in an install, because they always do. That's, like, part of this job. And that's why you have a punch list, and that's why you have multiple rounds. You know what I mean? Like, there's always going to be small things.

[Darwin Fitts]

I guess my issue, too, going back to this house manager being, like, a boat guy wherever he is. Like, like, hire people that know what this process is. Like, please.

[Caroline Turner]

Like, a boat captain would be the last person I would employ for this. In fact, I don't think they care anything about the way interiors look because they care about boat. Very weird choice. Very weird choice. Okay. One day, I had the thrilling task of steaming green linen dining chairs, and the captain hovered over my shoulder, inspecting every wrinkle.

[Unnamed Guest]

What can he go out on, sir?

[Caroline Turner]

Go to.

[Darwin Fitts]

To see.

[Caroline Turner]

Go on water.

[Unnamed Guest]

Touch, touch, touch water.

[Caroline Turner]

Okay.

[Unnamed Guest]

Get a job.

[Caroline Turner]

I just snorted. Y'all did not hear that. Okay, okay. Like, don't use, like, a boat to.

[Unnamed Guest]

Fix or to tend to.

[Caroline Turner]

Please. Or, like, get the rats out of here. We have bigger priorities. When the fabric wasn't perfectly crisp, I had to redo the entire thing. After sweating through that ordeal, I needed water. But surprise, the kitchen sink was off limits. What?

[Unnamed Guest]

So is that a thing? Is there. Sometimes we have to.

[Caroline Turner]

I have never had them say, you can't use the sink. I have had clients who are upset that people, like, the workmen use their toilets, like, use their bathrooms.

[Unnamed Guest]

So what were they supposed to do?

[Caroline Turner]

It's always an interesting thing.

[Darwin Fitts]

It's giving the help.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

No, literally, it is like, you do know these people who are working on your job are people. They are still people. It's a weird. And I mean, that's partially why we're here talking about this, because the power trip that happens when these People are bizarre.

[Darwin Fitts]

Totally.

[Caroline Turner]

It is so strange. I mean.

[Darwin Fitts]

I mean, I think we've had those experiences. We're just kind of a little bit shocked of the things that they expect or don't expect, you know, from us.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely.

[Darwin Fitts]

We are not the help.

[Caroline Turner]

We are not the help, period. So true. Okay, so she wasn't allowed to use the sink. I had to wander outside to fill my water bottle, praying I went and collapsed from dehydration before finishing the job. I almost wish you had. So someone had to be like, this is bad. Okay. The client obsessed with the most over the top details wanted lacquered trellises on the ceiling. I never even got to meet the homeowners of this project. I just followed orders relayed their captain slash caretaker. The whole project felt like some bizarre fever dream.

[Unnamed Guest]

I feel like I need more.

[Caroline Turner]

I need more, too. What about the trellis? Tell me more. How did it go wrong? But really, I have had a house manager. Some small thing goes wrong, like a delivery slate or something, and they're like, this is a disaster. Everything's going horribly. And you're like that, huh? That's not how we handle these things at all. It's wild.

[Darwin Fitts]

And again, it's going back to like we. When people are exposed to what either a remodel is or a new build is like, it is. It's a learning process. If you're new to it and you're the homeowner and of course that there's a lot of emotions involved to it.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely.

[Darwin Fitts]

But if this is supposed to be kind of like your profession and your job, like, I think you should know how to handle situations like that because you don't have an emotional attachment to any of this. You know, you're just kind of like, we can be more methodic about it rather than emotional about it.

[Unnamed Guest]

Right.

[Caroline Turner]

Well.

[Unnamed Guest]

And it's giving, like tattletale.

[Caroline Turner]

No. Are you my brother and going to tell our mom?

[Unnamed Guest]

Right.

[Caroline Turner]

Please get a grand.

[Unnamed Guest]

And I understand that. I mean, and maybe the way that the house manager thinks of it is like, okay, well, I'm stuck with these people. You just have to deal with them.

[Caroline Turner]

For a year or two.

[Unnamed Guest]

A year or two during the remodel. And they're nervous that they're gonna get. But also, if those are your clients in there, if you're that afraid of things, I don't know. There's something fishy about it.

[Caroline Turner]

Very. Also, if you're looking for a job in this industry, make your own. I know we have so many clients that need, like, an assistant to help them managing the project. Like dealing with us, dealing with the builder, dealing with the contractor, all of the invoices. Because when you're. I mean, we're working on a 10,000 square foot house right now, and the details are endless. Endless. And so we need someone who can sort of bridge that service gap from us to the client. But that doesn't seem to, because there.

[Darwin Fitts]

Are so many decisions to be made. And honestly, the reason why sometimes I realize is, like, there are people that truly needed an interior designer. I mean, absolutely. There's personalities that you can, like, be like, you can really do handle this on your own. Like, you're very good at this and we are assisting you in getting there. But then there are people that I'm like, you should not even be a part of any of these conversations because you do not know what's going on.

[Caroline Turner]

Just let us do it.

[Darwin Fitts]

And if they had a capable person that's been hired that they trust that can kind of help them go through this process, I think that's like a new thing people need to look into is like hiring also somebody.

[Caroline Turner]

No, like, make your own job. I mean, we talk about this all the time. I would hire for our clients someone and like, build it in. You know what I mean? Like, there's a way that could happen. Sorry, I digress. We're going into details, but I do think that's really a hole in the market that we'll eventually see people fill.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. Well, I know that there's a big uptake and maybe this is where if we have a new. Is this our new career business plan where the new thing is all of these, like, virtual AI assistants. It's like there needs to be a virtual AI assistant that connects into like, the contractor, the interior designer, the plumbing, the landscape architect, like, all of those people. And they could help manage the project holistically and then manage the client. And so they're all.

[Caroline Turner]

That would be ideal.

[Unnamed Guest]

Right.

[Caroline Turner]

The only problem is that most of my clients are like, how do I even find my invoice? Like, much less, they're not gonna be AI, is there? Can you send me the invoice link for the fourth time? Sure, no problem. No worries.

[Unnamed Guest]

Like, you're a millionaire.

[Caroline Turner]

How did you not read your email? How do you not get.

[Unnamed Guest]

Don't you get bills?

[Darwin Fitts]

And that might be what this manager is supposed to be doing if they did their job right. I'm actually working currently in a project in Hawaii, and we have the best project manager.

[Caroline Turner]

Like, amazing.

[Darwin Fitts]

We had one as A firm. We had one initial conversation with the clients to get hired, got hired. And we have not had any communication with them since because everything has ran through the project manager. But she's been their project house manager for like 40 years. So she knows them so well that she can make any quick decisions. And she makes them so quickly, so.

[Caroline Turner]

Swiftly, because she's a little bit more objective than they are. So it's like she knows them well enough. But wow, that is so valuable.

[Darwin Fitts]

So then there is something to just people knowing what they're doing and being in the right job.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely. And I mean, I can only imagine how hard being a house manager is. Is when there are, you know, high net worth individuals. They expect a certain level of service, as we're saying. But I do think there is. Yeah, there's room for that. Because it's shocking how many high net worth individuals let someone who is not them handle the process when they've hired an interior designer. Yeah, it's wild, wild, wild, wild. We're going to go to the next confession, which is I have not read yet, so I'm very excited. This one is called the Case of the Swapped Marble. Marble. Marble. Marble. Here's a confession that still makes me cringe every time I walk past a slab of marble. I was overseeing the renovation of a client's kitchen. Think sleek. Custom cabinetry, imported fixtures, and the piece de resistance, an insanely expensive marble countertop. We're talking Italian marble, hand selected by the client on a special trip overseas. No pressure, right? Also, stone incels are kind of one of the scariest ones, because if you get it wrong, the material is so expensive, it's like there's no room for error.

[Darwin Fitts]

Oh, trust me, I know.

[Caroline Turner]

I'm sure we both have, like five stories at the top of our heads. And you're like, yep.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, you see those videos of all the guys, like, carrying it and it's like, oh, my God, that's 500 pounds.

[Caroline Turner]

Like, do not drop that. No, literally. We had a hood at one of our projects that was £900. When I tell you that I had dreams for like two weeks that it was gonna fall on the clock. It's not like it's so secure. It's just the anxiety that can really swirl away with you. Okay. Everything was going according to plan until installation day. Yes. Typical. The marble fabricators arrived unwrapping the slab, and it was the wrong one. Not just slightly off, completely different veining, wrong tone, wrong finish. I froze. This was a $50,000 mistake. And the Client was obsessed with the original slide. That is nightmare fuel. I've been in that situation genuinely, where a stone yard sent the wrong slab that we did not approve, and they sold the slab that we approved, and the slab got delivered to the fabricator. The wrong slab. Can you believe that? It is. Yeah. Nightmares still about it. And we solved it. Okay. Panicking, I called the fabricator, and they confirmed that our slab had accidentally been swapped with another client's. And here's the kicker. The other client was already installed thousands of miles away. I have chills.

[Darwin Fitts]

So they accepted their slab.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, it sounds like the slabs were switched, but I wonder if the slab was better. So they didn't say anything, because that's what happened to us. It was like, 100. The slab that we picked out was more veined and better. So they were obviously not going to say no. They're like, this one's even better than I thought it was. Yes.

[Unnamed Guest]

$50,000. The other one's a few thousand.

[Darwin Fitts]

You kind of just, oh, my.

[Caroline Turner]

I'm panicking for them. And, like, I don't know who this person is.

[Darwin Fitts]

So, no, that is. That is a nightmare. And it's very scary to think that you think you've kind of gone through a process.

[Caroline Turner]

You've done everything right.

[Darwin Fitts]

You've done everything. You're putting your trust that everybody else is doing everything right. And you cut. There's the moment, you're excited, it's finally coming in.

[Caroline Turner]

And it is the most disappointing control.

[Unnamed Guest]

But the one who takes the brunt of it, well.

[Caroline Turner]

Cause the buck stops with us. So we're having to say my fabricator didn't do X or. Or whatever that is. Okay. I knew I was done for, so I called the client, fully prepared to grovel. But to my surprise, she barely even noticed the difference. In fact, she loved it. Said it gave the space unexpected character. I couldn't believe my luck. I fucking can't either. Like, when does that.

[Darwin Fitts]

That's a dream client. That is a dream client.

[Caroline Turner]

That is a dream is a quarter inch off, and you're like, huh?

[Darwin Fitts]

No, literally, people that go with the breeze of life just live happier.

[Caroline Turner]

And they really do.

[Darwin Fitts]

If you accept things as they come, then, yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

And I mean, you know, that designer is probably, like, loyal to that client forever because they didn't make a huge deal about it. But also, I fear I would have made a huge deal about it. Like, I don't know that I would have been okay with it.

[Darwin Fitts]

That's the thing. Maybe. Yeah. In real life, it looks so great that, like, you just get lucky and you're like, I can take this. But imagine if. If it would have gone the other way, then.

[Caroline Turner]

I mean.

[Unnamed Guest]

But also to your point that you were talking about earlier, Darwin, is you were saying that there are some clients, they don't know shit about it. So they don't know if this is a bad slab or a good slab or. Right. And some clients are very, very in tune with the process and interior and design. And they love it and they love the entire process. There's some people that probably don't have great taste, and that's why they hire. So if they saw it and were like, yeah, this looks great. Like, they don't know.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

Anyways.

[Darwin Fitts]

So I also must say that that really, truly shows how some people really need to see things to get it.

[Caroline Turner]

Yes.

[Darwin Fitts]

And like, as much as you show clients renderings and stuff, they just sit in because there's some brains that just cannot make those connections. And so maybe, like her, she sees it. It's like, in real life, it looks good. Maybe if it would have been back when you were searching for slabs, she would have seen that and been like, there's no way I'm buying that.

[Caroline Turner]

I hate that. Exactly. That happens all the time.

[Darwin Fitts]

And this is a great way to be like, trust your designer, too.

[Caroline Turner]

Amen. That is the moral of every story.

[Darwin Fitts]

That when they tell you this is gonna look great, trust me. When you see it in real life, just be like, okay, okay. Cause then I trust you.

[Caroline Turner]

I hired you. Well, I can't tell you how many times. And I tried to tell my clients this now because five and a half years in, I see it, they're much more conservative in the beginning. So they'll, well, you know, join, we'll take on the client, we'll go, we'll do materials first. And I can tell they're picking things that it's like, they wanna make sure it's gonna be classic for 50 years, and then we'll get halfway through and they start picking more exciting things and they get really into it. But then upon install, they don't like the things they picked in the beginning when they weren't trusting you because they were safe. And so now, and that's really, genuinely is the moral of the story, the best clients are the ones that are hiring the right people for them and then letting them do their job. Like, we have very involved clients, but ones that are like, ultimately, I trust what you're saying, which is all we could ever ask for. And what's funny is her. Moral of the story is very similar. Sometimes the universe does you a favor by messing everything up. And sometimes it's better to let the client think it was part of the plan all along. Yeah. And that is truly the key.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, and that goes back to the other thing where everyone's just faking it till they make it. No one knows what they're doing. And when you just remind yourself of that, it's. Everything's easier. Like you were talking about. Too Darwin. It's just having that mindset of, like, it all works out and not.

[Caroline Turner]

It's all gonna be okay, you know.

[Darwin Fitts]

Even though we're not saving lives here is what we always say. Those things we remind ourselves, like, we're not saving lives.

[Caroline Turner]

We are not brain surgeons. We are not saving lives. There is no ambulance. Your urgency is not my emergency.

[Darwin Fitts]

Also, there's not, like, one right answer when it comes to design. And I think, like, I had, like, clients that are like, well, what is the right answer? What is. And it's like, in this moment, we all think, this looks good.

[Caroline Turner]

So that's the right call.

[Darwin Fitts]

So let's just go with this, because we're feeling that this is the right call for now. So, yes, if we take another month on this project, we can come up with a whole new concept. Sure. But that's a whole. That's a different.

[Caroline Turner]

That's a departure. Yeah, absolutely.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, and you can sit there and ruminate, right? Of like, what if we do this and this and this? And that's something I've had to learn in my life, too, is sometimes you just have to make a decision and stick with it and trust your gut, because that's not a way to live your life in general where you're just.

[Caroline Turner]

Ruminating over every decision, hemming and hiding. Did I do the right thing?

[Unnamed Guest]

Did I not? It's like, you just sometimes have to go with your gut and then move on.

[Darwin Fitts]

And I think the slap. I mean, the way she described it, they were different, right?

[Caroline Turner]

Completely different.

[Darwin Fitts]

Completely different. And for two different clients to have had this, like, swap happen and for them both to be happy with that swap, that was, in the eyes of the designer, completely different. But the end worked for the project. I think that's a great note to take for clients that, like, absolutely. Things can.

[Caroline Turner]

It will work out. It'll be okay. I mean, we have clients all the time where we'll do, you know, lighting and then we'll do furniture. And they keep asking me, are you sure this all works together? Like, yeah, babe, that's my job. I'm sure. I promise. Pick out one of the four things I showed you and I'll make sure it works, because that's my job. Obviously. I understand we'll always reassure clients, but I do think, generally speaking, we rarely ever have clients install something and not like it. It's the build to that that they are forced to make the decision. And, I mean, there's a lot of hemming and hawing.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, it takes so long, too. I think that's the thing. It would be one thing if you show them, hey, this is what we're going to do, and then the next day the project's done. But I think the longer projects take is they have more time to see things and it comes together slowly. And then they talk to their friends.

[Caroline Turner]

Like on Pinterest, and you're like, please. And then you're on.

[Unnamed Guest]

Right, you're on Pinterest and Instagram and you see a million different things and you're like, wait, I should have done this? And I should have done this. And it's not like. Then once you have it all in the. You're like, this is amazing.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's when you're waiting, then your brain starts, you know, playing tricks on you and the client, and they're like, dang, we should have done this. Or we should have done this.

[Darwin Fitts]

Or at the end of the day, it's not that it's going to be. Yeah, it could have looked good. Like, yes, we could have gone with that different finish. We didn't. But it's fine because based on the other finishes, based on the other selections that we made, it works. It's going to work, right?

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. If you're good at your job, if you're good at this job, that is a big part of it is making sure that all of the pieces work together. But I think, honestly, most designers that I love, it's like the fucked up shoe theory, where you, like, put together a good outfit and then you throw on a shoe that, like, kind of makes no sense. And it makes the outfit way cooler than if it was like, a shoe. That makes sense. I feel that way sometimes about interiors. If this is going to be so expected and normal, what is the point? Why did you hire me? Go on Pinterest. Hire a painter. They can do it for you. But if you're going to spend the money and hire a real, true interior designer, let them spread their wings and make it as special and incredible as it can be, because you're already paying for it. So it's like, you might as well.

[Darwin Fitts]

I mean, I think our job is to help bring in this personality that the client has that is afraid to let go.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely right.

[Darwin Fitts]

There's a lot of kind of safe play. And part of this job is getting to know the client and understanding who they want to be at the end, why they're doing this. I've had it so many times where there's clients that are. Their life has changed, right? Like, they're either like, no longer have children or, you know, whatever that may.

[Caroline Turner]

Be, or now they do have children. That's a big one.

[Darwin Fitts]

And based on that, they're coming into a new age for themselves of who they are. And our job is to help them transition into that. But that comes with new language that they don't know about themselves. And we're trying to make that a visual for that.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah, that's such an interesting point, because I've never vocalized that. But the idea, I think that is what we're all doing is you're sort of taking a look at your clients and then boiling it down into something that can then be put into an interior space. And it should reflect the client without feeling like it matches the client, which I think is the key. It's still a little bit unexpected. And how they live, how they want to live, who they want to be in this space, I feel like, is such an interesting question because we'll have clients say, like, we want to entertain, we want to do this, we want to do that. But in their current space, maybe they're not doing that. Or I'll say, what if we do, like a reading area and in their current space they're not doing that. I'm like, but you will. If you let me give you this space, I can create. Who do you wanna be exactly? Don't you want to have these hobbies? Like, I take a bath every single night. I advocate for baths with all my clients. A lot of them are nos. I'm like, I don't take a bath. I don't take a bath. You will if I give you a beautiful bathtub. Okay? Just trust me.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, it's like, you know how they say, dress for the job you want, not the job you have that is perfect and designed for the house that you. Or the life that you want. Not the life.

[Caroline Turner]

Not the life you have currently.

[Unnamed Guest]

Right? And it is kind of, if you. Without getting too like, woohoo. It is about, like, manifestation and manifesting what you want your life to look like and your Home is such a reflection of who you are and how you want to live, and it's the most personal thing to you. So you want that to reflect you, and you want to feel good when you're in your home.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely. And I think that's what everyone wants. We're all trying to get there. It's just a matter of how can we all work together to achieve the same goal. Okay, before we transition, we are going to give some penance. Darwin, what do you think her penance should be? And to be clear, it doesn't have to be, like, five hail Marys and whatever. It can be a martini and a hot bag, because it sounds like she might need it. It can be anything. Music. It can be anything. What do you have? Hit me.

[Darwin Fitts]

So I feel like she deserves a weekend at the Playpen.

[Caroline Turner]

Oh, my God. With the boat captain?

[Darwin Fitts]

No, not that boat captain, though. The different. Cause imagine the torture to have him. So not him.

[Caroline Turner]

Maybe a really, really hot boat captain. A really single and hot. Exactly.

[Darwin Fitts]

If that's what she needs, that's what she should have.

[Caroline Turner]

I love that I'm going to add a martini and, like, a really cute, tiny bikini, and she's gonna be living. I love that she will never remember that mouse mansion again. I love that.

[Unnamed Guest]

She deserves a perfect Chicago weekend.

[Caroline Turner]

She needs a vacation is what it sounds like. Okay. And then the case of the swap marble. What is the penance for?

[Darwin Fitts]

Honestly?

[Unnamed Guest]

She should play the lottery.

[Caroline Turner]

Like she is.

[Unnamed Guest]

Or he is one lucky person.

[Caroline Turner]

No, absolutely. I wonder if we should give her some penance to pass on that luck. To pass on, you know, a good deed. Go out and do something for your friends, a parent, someone you see on the street, a stranger. And I think that person was so lucky. And that's just a. Life happens that way. And I think that being able to pass that on could be really beautiful and also fulfilling for them because you're able to sort of share the wealth.

[Darwin Fitts]

That's so sweet. I like that a lot.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah. Yeah, I love it. That's what I would want to do, I think. I'm certainly not Mother Teresa, but it does feel good to sort of, like, pass that energy on. Yeah, for sure. For sure, for sure. We are now going to get into some questions. We have two today that are kind of a little bit more intense, and I'm excited. Excited about it. Okay, so one, my company just got acquired by a larger architecture firm, and I'm freaking out. It's not the job I was originally hired for. Do I stay or do I go, this is interesting because there's some things happening in Chicago that are sort of, like, mixing things up. And I find that this is very timely, I think.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah. Just from experience, I think that when things start to change and they no longer feel like it's what you sync with. Why? Yeah, it might be that it's what the universe has put in front of you to kind of like make that.

[Caroline Turner]

Swap, that you force you to kind.

[Darwin Fitts]

Of make a different turn out of your comfort zone to find where you really, truly belong.

[Caroline Turner]

Absolutely. I mean, I feel like so many times in my life there have been pushes, probably shoves from the universe into a specific direction, even when. And I was like, digging my heels in. And so the idea that this thing that doesn't feel right anymore and is not what you signed up for isn't fulfilling you and you're not. Not that everyone should be, like, super happy every day at work, but it shouldn't be something that you dread. And honestly, the biggest pay jumps, the biggest responsibility jumps have been when I left a job that wasn't serving me and learned from that job what I now want in my other job. And I've found it. I know what to ask for. Early in your career, you're like, I'll take anything I can get. Like, please, just let me on your team. But once you've done it for a while, you're really able to sort of, like, you have more power, you have more negotiating power, you're more experienced. I think it could be really beneficial to try to find something that feels more creatively fulfilling. But also, I know that with a more corporate job comes stability. And I feel that that's a decision that has to be made consciously. Like, are you okay to forego a little bit of security for your happiness? My answer is yes. Yes, always. Because I believe in myself enough, and I know you do, too, that I'll make it work whether it's, like, the thing I want to be doing or not. We're not going to starve, but you won't even know if you're going to do that or not unless you force yourself to do it. So sorry if that's not the answer you want, but that would be our recommendation. Yes. Okay. Now, number two, I have a client who has the worst taste ever. Think 2016. Farmhouse, shabby chic. I'm not sure why she hired me, because it's not my style at all. I'm trying to be accommodating of her style, but it's so bad, and she Hates everything I show her. What do I do? Oh, I feel like we've all had this client for sure.

[Darwin Fitts]

I feel like if lessons have been learned is that sometimes you're just not the right match.

[Caroline Turner]

Yep. And it's so hard to walk away from that. But it's true.

[Darwin Fitts]

And if you see it early on and if it's just what's happening right now, and I think she said nothing. Like, nothing. I mean, I think if there's like, a meeting and it's like a 50 50, you know, that you're working towards something, but if it just is like a solid no on things that you might have been excited about, even. There's. There's times that I'm like, okay, let's give this to them.

[Caroline Turner]

Yeah.

[Darwin Fitts]

And then they don't like it, and you're like, oh, so then there's nowhere we can meet. Absolutely, yeah. Then there's the whole discussion of maybe.

[Caroline Turner]

Maybe we have to trip. I mean, I've had to have that discussion. I've certainly tried to be like, I don't. You don't like anything I'm picking out. You don't. And interestingly enough, I feel that because of social media, we've cut down on some of that because they're already bought in to us because they're watching. But we'll have clients that come from referrals, and those are the clients that I find are the issue.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yes.

[Caroline Turner]

Because they aren't bought into the style. They're bought into that. You can finish the job.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yes.

[Caroline Turner]

I'm not your assistant. That's not how this works. And if you're sending me a chair from Google, I've already seen it. Babe. Don't send me a chair from fucking Wayfair. I saw it, and I don't like it. Okay. So I do agree it's so difficult, especially from a legal perspective, because you're in a contract. But I feel that being honest with the client and going to her and saying, look, I really respect you as a person, and I don't want this to sour because there's no reason for us to be at odds.

[Darwin Fitts]

Definitely.

[Caroline Turner]

So if we end this now on both of our terms, I can get you with another designer that she loves that style, and then you'll be so much happier, and I'm free to, like, move on creatively, but when you need money and you have employees and all of that, it's so much more difficult. I mean, I've been there. I certainly. I've also tried to fire clients, and they Won't get fired. They're like, that's a whole different.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah. And then, I mean, these are like the rent money kind of projects. Sometimes you're like, okay, we can do this with our eyes closed. We can just make them happy.

[Caroline Turner]

Let's take it. We're not gonna photogr. But like, yeah, which.

[Darwin Fitts]

And do a good job. I mean, we'll do a good job at it.

[Caroline Turner]

Of course you're not phoning it in, but like, yeah, we have some projects like that where it's like, okay, whatever you want, within reason, but whatever. We'll do what you want to get this done, and then we'll move on and they'll be happy. And I'll never tell anyone I did it. Oops, oops, oops, oops. We are transitioning to our final segment. Thank you, Darwin, so much for being here. This has been really fun. Our tagline for CTI is interiors that make you feel. And so I wanted to ask what is one or a couple of things that recently or this week has made you feel? It can be anything. Doesn't have to be interiors. It can be music, food, friends, literally anything.

[Darwin Fitts]

Friends. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline Turner]

I love that.

[Darwin Fitts]

I've been, like, hanging out with some friends and like, two. My group and my friends group have kind of like joined the dream when everybody just can get along and I see them go off and have their own little car conversations. And it just makes me happy to see all the people that I like kind of interacting.

[Caroline Turner]

So I love that.

[Darwin Fitts]

Yeah, it's been a very feel good moment.

[Caroline Turner]

And there's nothing like feeling like, oh, I have community, like, I have people I can count on, and they're all friends with each other. And yeah, I think that's what we're all striving for. I love that. That is amazing. Okay. One thing that's making me feel this week is English Teacher on Hulu fx. Hulu. Brian Jordan Alvarez is. He created it and he has been doing these incredible marketing videos on TikTok where he just dances the same dance to the same song every day, encouraging people to watch. And it's working like, it's the best marketing plan I have ever seen. He does this dance that does kind of feel like evolutionary. Like you're like, why am I so interested in this? This is a gay man. Like, he's like, taking his shirt off and he's like, watch English teacher. And it worked. And it's so good. And I really recommend people watching it. It's about high school teacher, and it handles a lot of subjects that are in our zeitgeist with humor, which I love, so can't recommend enough. All right, Darwin, thank you so much for being here. This has been so fun. Where can we find you? Where should people look to see all of your incredible work?

[Darwin Fitts]

Well, my Instagram is my name. Darwin Fitz.

[Caroline Turner]

Perfect.

[Darwin Fitts]

And my website is darwinfitsdesign.com and that's where you can request my portfolio if you are interested in my styling.

[Caroline Turner]

Amazing. And definitely go look at his stuff. It's genuinely insane. Okay. Thank you all so much for listening. I am so grateful. I would be even more grateful if you subscribe. And please go to our website, carolineturner.co. click the confessions button and leave us a confession or a question. Until then, see you next week. And peace be with.