I Confess... Why Designers (& Divorces) Exist

Summary

Confessions of an Interior Designer

Episode: I Confess... Why Designers (& Divorces) Exist

Host: Caroline Turner

Guest: Sarah Annand, Founder of Oat Studio

Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers a candid, funny, and insightful look at the realities of the luxury interior design world through the lens of personal stories and confessions. Host Caroline Turner is joined by artist and textile designer Sarah Annand of Oat Studio. Together, they explore Sarah’s artistic journey, discuss the intersection of art, business, and motherhood, and react to jaw-dropping anonymous confessions from listeners—including a colorblind husband’s design mishap and a surprise kitchen remodel gone wrong. Bursting with industry camaraderie, unexpected confessions, and genuine moments, this episode peels back the polished layers of the design world to reveal what really happens behind the scenes.

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Sarah Annand's Journey: From Art History to Oat Studio

(00:57 – 13:21)

• Sarah's Organic Entry into Textiles:

  • Studied art history & photography; didn’t plan for textiles but fell into it through fortuitous networking (01:13).
  • Early career: jobs in art and textiles, moving from Sydney to Melbourne (“My love of linen really formed here, couldn’t leave after that.” – Sarah, 02:53).
  • Followed her husband’s Defense Force career to Canberra, which became a creative inspiration.

• Community & Starting Oat Studio:

  • Finds design community essential: “Our communities are much smaller than we think… it is a major asset in business.” – Caroline (07:02).
  • Canberra’s architecture and landscape influenced her photography and painting, which evolved into fabric design.
  • Female mentors in the industry played a key role sharing “shipping to the States, how it all worked… all these little things of business.” – Sarah (06:00).
  • Oat Studio began as a side project while managing a window finishings business and raising young kids.

• From Side Hustle to Full-Time:

  • Took four years to go full-time: “To do what you love every day… there’s so many jobs you might not be as happy in.” – Sarah (08:14).
  • Produces art and digital work in Canberra, with fabrics printed in Australia and New Zealand.

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Oat Studio Operations: Local, Artistic, and Collaborative

(13:21 – 18:15)

• Manufacturing Choices:

  • Keeps production local for shorter lead times and quality control: “Everything is designed and printed in Australia and New Zealand […] shipped from my printer to you, or wherever you need it.” – Sarah (09:54).

• Artistic, Not Corporate:

  • Collection releases happen organically—Sarah follows inspiration more than a rigid schedule: “I’m a bit of a random in that way in my process […] that color looks great, go with my gut.” – Sarah (12:42).

• Product Range:

  • Four main collections, plus foundational designs (stripes, checks, small prints).
  • Designs are united by geometric forms but span different styles to appeal to a broad client base.

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Community, Mentorship, and Business Lessons

(18:15 – 22:16)

• Importance of Sharing Knowledge:
  • Sarah emphasizes mentoring others: “If there’s new women starting up in textiles, I would so love to assist, cause I know how much it helped me.” (11:25)
• Business Realities:
  • From side hustle finances to full-time entrepreneur realities—struggles with adjusting the “bonus money” mindset (19:45).

“It’s hard to work in an industry where everything is a trillion dollars and you have good taste. It’s a curse.”
— Caroline (21:08)

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Confessional Segment: Hilarious & Jaw-Dropping Listener Stories

Confession #1: The Colorblind Husband’s Man Cave

(24:25 – 29:36)

• Story:
  • Listener lets design-enthusiast husband design a “man cave” alone; room ends up off-hue, leading to the discovery he’s colorblind.
• Notable Reactions:
  • Caroline: “This is my ideal scenario... and clearly you’re not equipped for this, I’ll handle it forevermore.” (25:37)
  • Sarah: “I am the design decision!” (25:51)
  • Discussion of how colorblindness is more common in men, which often goes undetected.
• Penance:
  • “He hands over his credit card and she fixes it… and maybe goes through his closet.” – Caroline (28:04)
  • Sarah: “She can redo his wardrobe and make every design decision from now on.” (28:21)

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Confession #2: Surprise Kitchen Remodel Disaster

(29:36 – 41:41)

• Story:
  • Husband hires trades to redo the kitchen as a “surprise” while his wife is abroad; she’s furious at being cut out of the process.
• Analysis:
  • Caroline: “It’s like when you get an engagement ring that isn’t remotely you… it’s not about the ring, it’s about the fact that he doesn’t know you.” (34:25)
  • Sarah: “Did he not know his wife wanted to be involved? You’d think he would know!” (34:53)
  • Symptom of bigger problems: “It speaks of bigger problems… do you not listen?” (41:07)
• Penance:
  • Caroline: “She gets to redo the kitchen with his credit card… and send him to climb Mount Kilimanjaro for two weeks so she gets some peace.” (39:02)
  • Ultimate escalation: “Her other penance is divorce and a new house with her alimony.” (41:21)

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Deep Dive: Artistry, Inspiration, and Custom Work

Brutalism, Light, and Place: Design Inspiration

(41:54 – 48:29)

• Sarah on Canberra’s architectural influence: Brutalism, modernist forms, interplay of light and shadow:

  “There’s a beauty to it… the light’s hitting these buildings, casting all these big, beautiful shadows. As you walk around, it’s always changing.” (43:01)

• Inspiration from her environments, whether Canberra’s stark modernity or the historic charm of the UK and New Zealand.
• Her process: Photography, abstract painting, digital transformation, colorways drawn from nature and architecture.

Appreciating All Styles

• Both host and guest stress the value in learning from varied styles—even if you have a strong personal preference.

“You don’t have to love them all equally, but you can still use what you learn.” — Sarah (47:48)

Product Development: Fabrics & Customization

(48:29 – 54:43)

• Oat Studio offers designs on multiple fabric weights for application flexibility (drapery, upholstery):

  “You need different weights, different rub rates... to make the collection more versatile.” — Sarah (48:43)

• Sarah loves working with designers on custom projects, keeping it fluid and collaborative.
  • “Sometimes you gotta trust in the process… some of the best things come from happy accidents.” (54:07)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “The best feeling ever when you realize, ‘This thing I’m doing and love doing can be something’... It’s a feeling unlike anything else.” — Caroline (08:04)
• “If you love what you do, you just gotta keep pedaling.” — Sarah (08:45)
• “I’m full of vices… I’m made up of vices.” — Caroline & Sarah, after swapping confessions (21:43)
• On letting go of design control for a partner:

  “I think I’d still want to see during the process. I don’t know if I could wait till the end.” — Sarah (29:13)

• “Some of my designs are happy accidents.” — Sarah (54:10)
• “It never gets old to see someone use your work.” — Sarah (55:21)
• “Australia has some of the best designs coming out right now.” — Caroline (56:25)

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Heartfelt & Hilarious Final Moments

• Sarah shares that her son has started designing dresses out of fabric scraps:

  “He told me he wanted to be a fashion designer, started drawing dresses. It was so sweet… maybe if I didn’t have them all here, he wouldn’t have done that.” (57:32)

• An affectionate exchange about nurturing creativity in children—Sarah stapling together a dress her child designed (58:51)

• Closing: Where to find Sarah (Instagram: @oat_studio, website oatstudio.com), with invitations for listeners to reach out with questions or collaboration ideas (59:34)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:57 – Sarah Annand’s background and early career in textiles
• 03:44 – Moving to Canberra and discovering inspiration in modernist architecture
• 08:04 – Oat Studio’s transition to a full-time business
• 17:24 – Product design ethos and colorways
• 24:25 – Listener Confession #1: Colorblind husband’s man cave
• 29:36 – Listener Confession #2: Surprise kitchen remodel disaster
• 41:54 – How architecture influences Sarah’s textile designs
• 48:29 – The technical and artistic reasoning behind multiple fabric weights
• 52:50 – Insights on custom textile projects
• 57:23 – Nurturing creativity in family and children

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Conclusion

This episode blends insider wisdom, humor, and straight talk about the design life. Sarah’s journey demonstrates the value of following your gut creatively, leaning into community, and embracing the inevitable messiness of both artistry and business. Caroline and Sarah remind us that behind every gorgeous space is a web of funny, messy, and utterly human stories. Whether you’re in the industry or just love design, you’ll come away feeling connected—and perhaps a little relieved that you’re not alone in your vices.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school because let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Hi everyone. Today we're joined by Sarah Annand, an artist and textile designer and founder of Oat Studio. Her textiles are created with an architectural influence and designed and made in Australia. With a background in art photography and over a decade in the textile industry, her work reflects a lifelong fascination with design, Canberra's modernist and brutalist structures, and a thoughtful, considered use of color. Hi Sarah. Welcome to Confessions. Thank you so much for being here. Did I say Canberra? Right? I feel like I practiced it for maybe 20 minutes. Pretty good. Tell me how you say it, please.

[B]

Canberra, so on.

[A]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. We'll see how well I do through this episode. Okay. Well, seriously, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited. There's lots to talk about before we get into the confessions. Tell us how you got here.

[B]

Oh, well, pretty organically and slowly I

[A]

would say throughout over the years, the best journeys are. Yeah.

[B]

So I don't think I knew I'd ever end up here, but here we are. I started, I did so university. I studied art history, starting with sort of that more foundational stuff there. I was an art history major, so the interest of photography and art and was sort of all through my education and schooling. Then post uni I did a few jobs here and there. I moved down to Melbourne with my boyfriend at the time, as you do em in your early 20s and wasn't really sure what I was going to do, to be honest, after that. And I talked to a girlfriend who I went to school with in Sydney years ago. I hadn't caught up with her in ages and funnily enough, she had a girlfriend living in Melbourne who she said, oh, you'll love. Cause I didn't know many people. I'll put you in touch and you guys can meet up. So she set us up on a blind date with my gorgeous friend. That's great. Yeah. So we met at a comedy fest in Melbourne. They have this fantastic comedy festival and we met up outside the comedy act, went in, went along, had drinks after and just hit it off. And she was leaving a job in the textile industry and put me forward for it. So she landed the job that way and we were still friends. She ended up being at my wedding in New Zealand ten years later. Yes. Oh wow.

[A]

That's so special.

[B]

She's Lovely. And then she ended up coming back and working in the same business. So that's how we sort of form that friendship as well. But I worked in a company that distributed international textiles, so European textiles for interiors draperies.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

A lot of beautiful brands that I'm sure you all know, such as Della Cogna and Colony. Some beautiful Verasetta. Some gorgeous fabrics there, where I think my love of linen really formed. And I sort of started working with some beautiful things. Couldn't. Couldn't leave after that, so.

[A]

Yeah, of course. I mean, how could you?

[B]

Yeah. During this time, I met my husband and I worked for another textile distributor in Melbourne with other beautiful brands doing the same thing. So working with designers like yourself and knowing the ranges, helping you find the perfect fit for the project. And then we ended up getting engaged and getting married. And he was in the Defense Force, so we moved around a bit for his job. So I had to leave my work there. And that sort of put everything on hold for me for a little bit. And that's what brought us to Canberra.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah. So there's a sort of. It's the capital.

[A]

I mean, clearly it worked out. Cause now it's a massive inspiration for you. I love that.

[B]

It has been. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm so. I don't think I ever knew I'd live in Canberra. It's not a place that was ever on my sort of list of to go. But I fell in love with it over time and the art. And it's very different to growing up in Sydney. I did a lot of my life in New Zealand as well, all through high school and. Yeah. So the heritage and the old buildings aren't here. So really the city started on a. In the 50s, like on a modernist. Oh, wow. Yeah.

[A]

So it must feel very young.

[B]

Yes, it's a very young city. So I think my love for it developed over time. And I had my first child and second child here. And I think, to be honest, on journeys around, walking around, getting them to sleep in the pram as you do. I was walking past these huge brutalist structures on the lake. It's quite a unique city. Yeah. Wow. And photographing them. So it's really started like that. I started taking photos, which I did through uni or and through school. All my majors were photography were boards and submissions of architecture. So somehow with the camera, I'm drawn to architecture, I think, one way or another.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I ended back there. And then at the time, I was working for a window finishing business here in Canberra. So working with designers once again with installs with Roman blinds, draperies and fabrics, once again.

[A]

Yeah, you keep finding yourself in that same sort of.

[B]

Yeah, I love that crept around the fabric world, obviously. I just had a love for it, I think, and I knew and I think it goes hand in hand with the arts. I feel like the beautiful designs, the linens, the curation, the color, the process, there's a lot of art in there. Absolutely. And it is art basically, I guess, for your walls.

[A]

Yeah, I completely agree.

[B]

Yeah. So I think I'm very drawn to it and just stuck to it. And then when I was working for this company and I started taking these photos, I started painting and being in the textile industry, I think naturally those designs that I was painting ended up on textiles.

[A]

Fabulous.

[B]

Been in the industry for a while. So I think I knew some really awesome Australian textile designers that were a huge inspiration and support. So I really leaned on those other women in business and people in the industry who were so sharing and nurturing. I had some lovely Australian women in the same boat who shared shipping to the States, how it all worked. So all these little things of business, like how you price, how you do this, all those things that I didn't know because I imported textiles and distributed them around Australia. So I didn't have that exporting. So there were little bits of the business that slowly came together. But the industry was just, I think it started my career again in a way because it connected me to like minded people and I started talking to more people in the industry and it was a really nice way to connect after being new to a city.

[A]

I mean, community is crucial as this is clearly illustrating that it's, you know, you don't seek out community for what it can do for you or you shouldn't. You should do it, you know, as fellowship and also how you can help your community. But yeah, I mean, there's lots of payoff when you do invest in a community because I feel like our communities are much smaller than we think they are. And when you get sort of plugged in, you realize like, wow, it's a major asset, I think in a business.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. And I think Canberra has really supported the design and I wanted to support back. So I worked with organizations like Craft Act Design Canberra, trying to support their auctions and things at the start, which just linked me with people and helped you feel involved as a young mum who was alone in a new city and trying to just forge a path for me, but also a path for connection and friendships. And being part of the, you know, the little city that I lived in, which was all new to me at the time. So yeah, it all goes hand in hand. But it was a really nice process that got me to where I was and eventually, I guess four years after doing it on the side to a full time job, I saw that it had some legs and I was loving what I was doing and jumped in full time.

[A]

The best feeling ever when you're like, oh, this thing I'm doing and I love doing can be something that's a feeling unlike anything else. Congratulations.

[B]

I think it is. Thank you. I think that just to do that and be able to do what you love every day and then two for my kids to see that and see that mum's happy in what she's doing every day because I think there's so many jobs out there that you might not be as happy in. And it's just about finding that path and what's right.

[A]

It's all hard, but it's a different type of hard being an entrepreneur. But it's almost feels like the hard is more worth it because you at least it's working towards something that your ultimate vision, which I feel like is

[B]

really helps and I mean you would know that too. I think it was hard at the start. You think financially it definitely wasn't as good for the family. And I think I made quite the leap of putting us a little bit on the back foot than we were. And it hasn't fully got where I need it to be, but I think it will pay off because I love it and it will. I think if you love what you do, you just gotta keep pedaling and. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean you've grown so much. You're still a relatively young company.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm just so curious because there's a lot of things about your business that I admire and we're gonna get into it and I think that sets you apart. But you're producing in the city that you're living in, right?

[B]

So no, so I am producing in the way I do all my photography and painting and digital work in Canberra and then I send my designs to Australian and New Zealand printers who print the fabric and then they ship them. Yeah. There's a little community there as well. Little process. Yeah.

[A]

But the fact that you're not shipping it out to another country, it's staying in Australia, which I feel like is pretty local in comparison to some other companies. Which means that your lead times are pretty good, right?

[B]

Yeah. So everything is designed and Printed in Australia and New Zealand. After living a lot of my life there, I kept it local to both places. And then, yes, ship directly from my printer to you or wherever you need it, for example. And that's internationally, so it's a nice, easy process.

[A]

Did you start out that way? Yes, you did? Okay. So you were working with factories. Okay, okay. Yeah.

[B]

So I think been in the industry and working with a lot of little textile designers in window finishings. I'd use them before I connected with them. I talked to them about their process. I knew some of the printers. And then, of course, I did a bit of research after that and looked at how it all worked. But it was pretty seamless. Just because I'd been around for quite a few years in that industry.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, experience pays for.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Even though I didn't come through uni as a textile designer, I came through as an art history major. I think the interest and the passion and the art side of it was there for me. And then it was just, how do I turn that into a business? And because I'd been in the industry with those distribution channels and the supplier channels, I had a little idea of it. And then, like I said before, the other Australian designers that have just been so supportive, there's some beautiful women who I've just asked the question called up. They've let me know how they work, their shipping schedules, how they do this. And as you know, first year into the business, that was just invaluable to be helped like that.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And I make sure if anyone comes to me starting new, that I'm. I share everything. So I try not to keep anything. I want to share it. And if there's new women starting up in textiles, I would so love to assist in that way as well. Cause I know how much it helped me. So that's sort of how it got to distribution. I knew those people then. It really was about getting the artworks and what I was happy on. On my end. Digitally, the colorways, the patterns, feeling like they're. They're sort of. And then it's a whole lot of back and forth with your printer. Testing, getting the colors right, bringing a collection together, curating it. Probably, like a lot of art processes really crossover in that way.

[A]

Brilliant.

[B]

And then finally settling on those final designs and colorways and sampling up and getting it out there.

[A]

Amazing. How many collections have you done now? Or do you do it on a rolling basis? How do you handle that?

[B]

I've done four collection, official collections, and then throughout there has been a few added little designs, which I call foundations designs. So they're my stripes, little prints and patterns that I've sort of landed on and loved and just decided to release. I'm a bit of a random in that way in my process, so.

[A]

No, I love that. I mean, I think it means that you're prioritizing the things that you love and favor and that's, I think, how we should all operate.

[B]

Yeah. There's not a really. I know, obviously working with a lot of the bigger companies. They're so highly curated and it's so precise. Whereas I think I'm a little more just whatever. That color looks great. That'll go in and. Yeah, just go with my gut on a lot of it.

[A]

I mean, like you said, that's art as far as I'm concerned. I guess so, yeah.

[B]

I probably could be more business structured and better like cohesive.

[A]

Oh, I mean, we all could, right? I certainly could be.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So, yeah, I guess it's life with three kids and it has to all fit in and I just do what I can, I guess, as the days tick along. Yeah.

[A]

Amazing. When you first started, were you just distributing in Australia and New Zealand or were you immediately distributing all over the world?

[B]

Australia to start with, initially. Nice. I have a friend in New Zealand who's an architect. She bought some early on as well, which is really nice support. And we did her beach house. And then there's a few little projects that are close to my heart like that, where they supported, you know, some lovely friends. As you do when you start out a business, support you purchase fabrics. Instagram has been heck, I know it can be a beast as well, but it's been a great tool for a new business and a small business, I think, to get your work out there internationally slowly and organically. Little things happened in Australia, I guess with marketing and design wise, getting a few press things, working with my community, doing different things and you slowly get a bit more of a following. And then people internationally found me, I guess, on Instagram and started those links. So.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Yeah, because I think I was working full time and I was managing that business. I was the manager of the window finishings business, so I didn't have huge amounts of time to work on the business of mine.

[A]

Yeah, no kidding.

[B]

It was more sort of very reactive rather than proactive for Oat Studio for quite a few years and very much on the side. But then I think this has really been my first year of being a little bit Proactive about reaching out to those international distributors and things and making a few more connections, which has been lovely and put me out of my comfort zone and just expanding as a business, which is very exciting.

[A]

Very exciting. Can you tell us where you're hoping to go next? Are there any particular countries that you're hoping to expand into?

[B]

I would love to get into the uk. I just went there, so. And I saw a lovely design studio who had purchased from me before. And so I've got a few contacts there and we'll keep looking at that. The design aesthetic can be quite different, but I think there's still space for. I know my designs are a bit more unique. Yes.

[A]

I think it would do very well there.

[B]

And I love the uk. My mum's from there, so I think that's another, you know, Australia, New Zealand and then the States is obviously such a beautiful market for me. And I love your sense of design and pattern and color. And it's been such a beautiful experience working with our lovely US designers. And we've had sales in California, all over, really. And we've got a few existing agents, which is exciting.

[A]

Amazing. Wow, you guys are really. Yeah, you're really expanding. You have four collections, but I feel like they sort of run the gamut. All more geometric, but they're not all necessarily for the same exact person, which I think is great. Like, I think you have a core customer that loves everything you do, but then there's that customer that's more traditional or client that's more traditional, that loves the stripe. And then there's the client who's a bit more industrial, who loves more of like the sort of specifically architectural patterns. And so I think that's so vital when you're a designer and you're not designing to just one specific style. Collections like yours are, I feel like things that I always grab for in my library.

[B]

Oh, thank you. That's so sweet.

[A]

Of course I mean it.

[B]

I think I try to make sure there's something for everyone while still staying true to your design aesthetic. Yeah. You can't be everything, so you can. I've got to remember when I'm producing the designs, but I do personally love a stripe. Love a check. Those patterns, too, are all through architecture, so it's not too far off. Brand and brief.

[A]

No, not at all.

[B]

And I asked my husband or anyone, here I am today, like stripes.

[A]

You're very on brand today.

[B]

Yeah. So I think they all working and I love working them into. I've got some new ones on the cards. As well. Exciting. A new collection coming, which has some stripes, has some more little pattern repeats, which I know the States love, so I'm excited to get. We do love those over the line, but still with probably my more unique Haute Studio colorways. Yeah.

[A]

Your colors are beautiful.

[B]

Oh, thank you. I think.

[A]

Yeah. Of course.

[B]

That not having that set color palette or set colorway in a more traditional sense than just going with. With my gut on every design. They don't always. Like, there's not one color of each design and that matches every other color of each design in the collection. It's a bit more. They all may be a little bit different, but they kind of work together overall. So you could have them in the same space, but they're not identical, if that makes sense.

[A]

And it doesn't feel like you could unless you knew of the brand that you could put your finger on that they're all from the same place. Like, you could use a bunch of your different fabrics in one room and it wouldn't be like, oh, they got that all from. Which I think is amazing. Like, we don't want that. We don't want it to feel like it all is matching because that's, you know, not elevated.

[B]

Yes. It's definitely not too matchy matchy. But then still can be used. Exactly. Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. What I mean is that they would all work together beautifully without it being too obvious. Here's a confession I know a lot of you can relate to. For years, I told myself I had my project management under control. Sure, I had 30 different tabs, docs and emails open at once. And yes, I'd occasionally panic, search for a specification at midnight. But I was still managing. Right then I tried Programa, and I realized I wasn't managing. I was just surviving. And barely. When I demoed the platform, I was most impressed by their incredible AI web clipper that pulls every single spec from a supplier's webpage straight into your product schedule. We're talking product details, dimensions, pricing, finishes, everything captured in seconds instead of the hours we used to spend copying and pasting into spreadsheets. It saves me so much time, and most importantly, it's given me back the headspace to actually focus on design instead of drowning in admin. So here's my advice. If you're serious about streamlining your design business and actually reclaiming some time in your day, head to programa.design and use code CONFESSIONS25 to get 25% off your annual subscription. Trust me, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it? Well, before we get into the confessions, what is a vice you have, if you have one?

[B]

Oh, gosh, I found this so hard. I think I'd have to say my biggest vice. And it come. It's hand in hand with how I think the business developed. Explain why. But spending money I don't have. And I think that's probably quite a boring one.

[A]

No, I relate to that.

[B]

In a little business, you get one good sale or something like that. Yes.

[A]

Time to invest. And you're like, yeah, time to buy

[B]

that chair I've been wanting for the house. And I think that's really supported by the fact that I started the business on a side of a full time job. So I had my job and I had my income and I had the family budget, for example. Right. Was always a little hobby, like a side thing. And so any money from that just felt like, oh, that's bonus money. Yeah. So I set myself up on the window. Yeah. Yeah. But then when you jump into it full time, it's like that adjustment to. No, no, hang on. This money has to feed my kids.

[A]

This has to keep the life stretch a little bit further than it was before. Yeah.

[B]

It's that, that little adjustment that I'm. Yeah. Trying to get used to.

[A]

And I'm, I think a lot of people will relate to that for sure. I mean, that's, I think, a common thing. It's hard to work in an industry where everything is a trillion dollars and you have good taste. It's a curse. Somewhat like it's impossible.

[B]

You really have to restrain yourself. Yeah.

[A]

Because we see a lot of the best things. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I know. And there's just so much out there. And I could buy anything anywhere. So you go into an op shop. Me too. Kids shop anything. And I'll be like, yeah, I want that. So I'm terrible. Yeah.

[A]

I can buy something anywhere. Oh, it's a problem.

[B]

Cause I listened leading up to this and thinking about my advice for you, I thought, oh, I'll listen to some of your podcasts and they're fantastic. And I was listening to all these brilliant women and inspiring people speak and say their vices. And every time they did it, I was like, ah, that's mine too.

[A]

Same. And then I was like, I was

[B]

like, oh dear, I'm full of vices.

[A]

Same. That's my experience too. I'm made up of vices. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, okay, well, I don't even know what to say to that because I feel like I'm Just all of them. One of your lovely interview guests said that she bought books.

[A]

Yes. That never read them.

[B]

And I was like, oh, my God. I've never heard anyone say that before, but that is me down to a T. I was like, damn it. She got my. Yeah.

[A]

I stand by that. There are much worse vices than that. There are much worse.

[B]

My home is full of books, but.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And ones that I still am yet to read.

[A]

That just means you have so much to look forward to, which is kind of great.

[B]

Yeah. That's a really nice way of looking at it.

[A]

Might just be the day. I don't know. It's warm in Chicago today, so I think I'm. I think we're breaking through the seasonal depression a bit. Rush in a bit. Let's get into the confessions. I'm excited. Excited. My husband and I bought a house years ago in our dream neighborhood that was a bit of a fixer upper. And as an interior designer, I was excited about the prospect of getting to fully remodel it. I made a deal with my husband that he could fully design one room in the house of his own if I got to do the rest my way. It came with a basement, so my husband and I thought it might be a fun idea to create a man cave area for him since I was designing the rest of the house in my own way. Of course, I gave him some parameters, but I didn't want to be overbearing and told myself I could let him have this one thing. He told me he wanted a moody, dark brown, warm vibe with lots of leather and a rustic look. I thought that would be cool and helped him make a few selections, but ultimately let him do most of the decision making because it was going to be his one thing. He wanted to make it somewhat of a surprise, so I shifted my focus to the rest of the house. My mistake. Eventually, the day came that he wanted to show me what he had been working on. He told me he had added the last finishing touches and was ready for the reveal. I was excited to see what he had done and secretly curious if there was any changes I'd need to make. And when I reached the bottom of the stairs and looked around, I definitely questioned my decision to let go of this project. Much of the space was the deep brown that he want with a good mix of leather, suede, and the kind of things men want in a man cave. But the chairs that he had told me went perfectly with his color scheme were this deep red color. They were pretty, but not in this Space, at least the way I thought he had envisioned it. The rug he had picked out had a weird undertone that pulled toward green and clashed with the things around it. The whole room felt slightly off and disjointed. I felt bad because he was so proud and smiling, waiting for my positive reaction. I told him what I liked about it. Like he had found this super cool vintage pool table, pretty wooden furniture, things like that. But I had to address the elephant in the room. I asked him at first if he thought he might be colorblind. He looked super confused. He laughed it off at first, said, of course not. He could see color just fine, and asked what I meant. I pointed to the chairs and said, I just don't think these really go with the neutral brown vibe you wanted. He looked so confused and said, the brown chairs. My husband had never mentioned being colorblind before. I mean, of course he dresses himself. He gets around the world fine enough. Nothing had ever tipped me off. But in this moment, I suspected something else was going on. We actually ended up getting him checked and confirmed that he had a mild red green color deficiency. It's subtle enough that he'd gone through most of his life never realizing it until he had to make these layered, nuanced color decisions all at once. So that's how we found out my husband is colorblind and decided that I will be making all design decisions moving forward.

[B]

Fair.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. This one really tickled me because I'm going to be so real. This is kind of my ideal scenario because then I can be like, and clearly you're not equipped for this. I'm going to have to handle this from here on out forevermore.

[B]

I am the design decision.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, poor guy. First of all, that has to suck to go through the world not seeing colors in the most. Not seeing as many colors as other people do. I should say, I guess so.

[B]

But I guess if you don't know,

[A]

and there's a word for it, when people are like super color seers, where, like, they can see more colors than the average person. I'm sure someone's screaming it at me right now. But to your point, I guess he doesn't know. So you don't, you know, what you don't know can't hurt you. But it had to have been a bit jarring for him to realize, like, oh, so have I been. You must think back to, like, did that not match when I was wearing that? Or what? You know, you must think back to

[B]

conversations you've had ago, back in his head.

[A]

Oh, yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. Things are starting to make sense.

[B]

Oh, hang on.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like, I mean, this is obviously very common with men. As women, we're lucky that we don't typically have to deal with this.

[B]

Oh, colorblind's more common in men.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, very neat.

[A]

It's interesting because I think that's why it goes so undetected for so long, is that men aren't really using that muscle as much. Not meaning that they're colorblind because they're not using it. They're just not noticing it because it's. I don't know, it's not a chicken or the egg.

[B]

It's like traits that die out because they're not required.

[A]

They don't need to worry about anything. Their mothers dress them so they don't. Yeah, no, I don't think it's that. But I do think that must be why they don't notice it until later on. It might be because people are making decisions for them. I mean that. Because how else do you not know? Yeah, I think about, like trees. Like, so what do they see? When you see leaves on a tree, are you seeing like more brown?

[B]

I guess they're often in less industries too. Just overall that, you know, jobs and things that usually require that.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Precise color.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Very few of those are, you know, often male jobs. Maybe that's stereotyping, but. Yeah, So a little bit.

[B]

But.

[A]

But also maybe a little. True.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Well, yeah, penance wise. I mean, no one's really in trouble. I think if anything, maybe the penance

[B]

is such a fun little lighthearted story. So.

[A]

I know, I feel like maybe the penance is that he hands over his credit card and she gets to fix it. And maybe also a quick look through the closet.

[B]

Yes. I think she can now redo his wardrobe as per what she wants. And every design decision around the home.

[A]

And that's her penance too, because she has to fix it. So it's kind of a dual sided penance situation. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. I feel like we love fixing. Like, I feel like that would be fun.

[A]

No. And, you know, I think in some ways the penance can also be positive. And in this, what I do think it is, I'm honestly impressed that she was like, you can have one room. And that is smart on its face. Like, if you don't argue with me about anything else, you can have this one room.

[B]

This is not somewhere she's really gonna go. So it's done.

[A]

Yeah. Inconsequential to her.

[B]

It's not a huge deal.

[A]

Yes. I'm just potentially too much of a control freak.

[B]

Yeah, I think I would be too.

[A]

I'd be like, can I just at least see what you're doing? Can I just make sure before you order something that it's all good?

[B]

I think I'd still want to see during the process. I don't know if I could wait till the end.

[A]

I feel like I would maybe be like, pull some imagery for. Of what you want.

[B]

Yeah. Give me a little taster.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Give me the brief and then we'll work.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Let's do this together. So it could be a bonding experience. Very trusting, which is very sweet.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wouldn't be me, but very sweet of her.

[B]

But I guess you're in the industry, so I think it would be very hard to let go. Very hard. Very, very hard in a personal situation.

[A]

It is always interesting to me, though, like when I'm in meetings with clients and things so often. And this isn't a stereotype, it's just from my experience that typically there's one person in the couple that's more plugged into the process than the other one. And so the person who is less plugged in, often the man. Not always, but often. They won't care about so many things and then you'll be in a meeting and randomly they'll have such a very, very, very strong opinion about something so weird.

[B]

And you're like.

[A]

Like, wait, what?

[B]

Like a handle on a wardrobe or. Just the stuff. It's so funny. This is. This is where you chime in.

[A]

They get like a wild hair about the most random stuff. Wasn't expecting that, but all right, keep.

[B]

Keeps you on your toes.

[A]

Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. For. Confession number two, I was just on a project and ended up chatting with the plumber on site who told me the craziest story. As a chronically nosy person, I had to get all the details and couldn't resist sharing it. Basically, he had been working on a kitchen remodel with a quick turnaround. It was a kitchen refresh, so new counters, cabinetry, hardware, etc. The client was a man who told them that it was going to be a surprise for his wife, who was out of the country for a few weeks. He had insisted on having it fully done before she got back. The husband would even ask his thoughts during the process because he wanted outside input. I assume since he was fully doing this without his wife's Involvement. They finished the install the morning she was flying home, and apparently the husband was in a great mood, pacing around the house, checking on final touches, seemingly super eager to show her what he had done. Her flight actually ended up arriving early, so they were still on site wrapping up a couple small things when she got back and even had them move the truck to a neighbor's house so it didn't look obvious. This is where it gets bad. When she pulled up in the driveway, her husband went out and met her, chatted for a minute and walked in. The plumber was in the next room, so he saw all of this go down. He had her close her eyes and led her into the kitchen. I think she probably thought he had some big present or maybe someone had come to visit, but certainly not this. When he told her to open her eyes, he told me she looked absolutely furious. She then told him they needed to talk in the other room. They had an office right next door, and the walls were seemingly not very soundproof because he heard the whole conversation, and she was not happy. I would be so angry. Oh, I. I would be a danger to myself and others, apparently. She had previously mentioned that she wanted the kitchen redone, and they had had a few discussions about hiring a designer budget, how she wanted it to look, et cetera, and he took that and decided to just do it while she was gone, to make it a surprise.

[B]

Pass the wait a few minutes.

[A]

Like I don't even. She was asking when this happened, why she wasn't involved, why he didn't wait reminded him that he had talked about hiring a designer, about doing it together, about making a plan. He kept saying he was trying to do something nice, that she had said she wanted it redone, that he thought he was saving time and money. She said that wasn't the point, obviously. Like what? She was furious that she wasn't involved and had wanted to pick out the specific selections. She had a Pinterest board she'd been working on and dreaming about for over a year while he thought it was just something that needed to get done. Very bad miscommunication. They were in there for a good while, and the plumber said he just lingered around, pretending to be busy, waiting to get the final good to go and secretly enjoying the drama. I can't say I blame him. Needless to say, this is why designers and divorces exist.

[B]

There you go. Wow.

[A]

In what world does that. It's just me, too. I mean, I'm. It's what? Okay. It reminds me of, like, when you get Engaged and you get an engagement ring, and you've told them everything you love about the ring, and, like, you guys have talked about it and whatever. And then he goes and gets you this ring that is like, so not you and is kind of something you would never like. And it's ultimately not about the ring. It's a great analogy. It's about the fact that he doesn't know you.

[B]

Doesn't know you, because, like, he would.

[A]

You would never want that. And it's the same thing. The fact that he thought. And it's like, it's really making it her problem by saying, like, well, I was trying to do something nice. It's a little manipulative because it's like, instead of just listening to what I want, you tried to be the hero. But then, like, are making me feel bad when I don't like it. Like, it's a little bit.

[B]

It's a little bit of, like, a backhand. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You kind of think, did he, like, how long have they been married? Did he not know his wife? And she would want to be. Usually, if people love that process, I think that your husband would know. Like, I'm not gonna cut her out of that process.

[A]

Yeah. Your partner knows.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, people who are particular about their homes are not often only particular about that. And I can say that as someone who's very particular.

[B]

It's like this mainstream.

[A]

Yeah, me too.

[B]

I think. I, like, you dream about your kitchen and what you want it to be like. And I don't have that yet. So it's. Yes. On my Pinterest board and.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And then the money spent as well. So you're like, oh, my God.

[A]

And that's what is so crazy to me is that, like, do you just redo it? Like, now the wife is so upset and.

[B]

But it's like, you've spent the budget, like, all the money on what he's doing.

[A]

Do you have more, or was that all of it? That's gonna be. As long as you're. No worries if you have more money. But if that was the budget.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. The thing is, it's like, on the surface, it's not that big of a deal, but I kind of feel like this is a story that would. That would polarize men and women or maybe just in the stereotypical way. I think so many men would be like, well, I don't understand. Like, that was nice. And so many women wouldn't be like, you're insane if you Ever did that to me. Like, it's so. Cause to men it is just like when things are done and they function, that's the priority. Not to only men to some people, I guess I should say. But like in my family, if there's something that functions. Growing up, my mom would want to change things just cause she likes design and likes to change things. And if it functioned, it was not getting changed. No, it was not getting changed. Because why would. It doesn't need to be. So I do think there's certainly something to be said for that. But this poor.

[B]

I think it probably says more about the relate. Like I think if you know your partner, then so. Yes. I don't know. I think it's. Yes, it could be a really nice gift for someone. But I watch those shows. You have so many of them in the States where they come in and they take the house and they just redo it for you. And then you come in and everyone's like, wow. And I think some days it depends what mood I'm in. I'm like, oh, I wish someone would do that for me. And then some days I'm like, oh, no. But I really don't because I'd like to choose every little.

[A]

I think you have to be pretty aware to be involved in a show like that. Like you have to be one of those people who likes a lot of different things and it's okay. You'll be happy with most things because.

[B]

Which I guess you. I don't know if they do it for free, so you should be grateful.

[A]

Well, we've had a couple of guests on who have done Design TV and some are free, but some are not. Some are like $200,000. Yeah.

[B]

I wasn't sure if that was like smoke or mirrors or people were paying for it because, you know, you don't know as a viewer.

[A]

Yeah, some people. Some people you. To have like hundreds of thousands of dollars to even be eligible to be on the show. It's pretty wild. There is this very, very infamous clip that is from this show. I think it was from Trading Spaces. I'm pretty positive. And Trading Spaces was where there was two neighbors and they would go in each other's houses and renovate the houses for each other. And one of them, they stapled fake leaves all over this woman's wall. And she. She opened her eyes and she was like, I hate it. Like, I always love that.

[B]

I'm like, what if they come in and hate it? I guess they just have to pretend they like it. But she Didn't.

[A]

It was so uncomfortable. The poor host is like, yeah, but it feels really warm. And she's like, I hate it. Take them down.

[B]

Need you.

[A]

And really, everyone please go look up the clip if you have not seen it. I feel like there's a lot of people who know what I'm talking about because it is very. It's made its rounds on the Internet for a little. It's like, from the early 2000s.

[B]

I haven't seen it. I look it up.

[A]

It's iconic. You have to look it up.

[B]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[A]

I can only imagine if there's, like, cameras in your face when you hate something. That's double, double whammy situation.

[B]

I have no poker face. I think I'd be exactly the same. I think I'd try and be nice. I think. I don't know if I'd say I hate it, but I think you'd see it. You'd see it.

[A]

I think I would maybe start cry, like doing that crying thing where you're, like, so mad you start crying because you don't know how to, like, your emotions get out. Exactly. I'd have to turn on Oscar worthy performance because. My God. Yeah, okay. Penance feels pretty easy on this one for me. Yeah. His penance is that she gets to redo the kitchen with his credit card. Like that is she gives her a fresh budget. Yeah, yeah. And my God, her penance is she gets to send him to Mount Kilimanjaro to climb for two weeks. And so then she gets two weeks of peace to redesign her new kitchen. Because I would send him to fucking Mars if I could. Like. Oh.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. My God. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's a tricky one. If he genuinely meant well, I feel bad for him at the same time. But then, yeah, you should know your partner or I don't know if. If she was gonna have that reaction, you think he would have known about it beforehand? So I guess, yeah.

[A]

I think to me, fix it, it just screams like, I don't actually care what you want. And I know better than you because, like, I work with clients that are couples all the time. If one of them has a Pinterest board, the other one knows about it. Like, you're talking about it. You're talking about the style of house you want. You're dreaming about it together, typically.

[B]

You know, I've been planning that for 10 years, and I've got everything.

[A]

You're in a healthy relationship.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're talking about it. And you're doing so like, it sounds like it was not the aesthetic she wanted.

[B]

Maybe it just wasn't working.

[A]

And to me it's like, maybe it

[B]

speaks of bigger problems.

[A]

I don't know if weaponized incompetence is the right word. But like, do you not listen? Like, I don't. It's very.

[B]

They're obviously not connecting on that level of her passions versus what then her

[A]

other penance could be. And his, I suppose, is divorced and she gets to go on a great vacation and buy a new house with her own kitchen. Get a new house with her alimony.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

That probably would be my choice, but I didn't want to go nuclear too early on.

[B]

If you're going to do it, do it right.

[A]

Exactly. Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, dear, dear, dear, dear.

[A]

I have some questions for you, if that's okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Canberra's modernist and brutalist architecture is a big influence on your work. What about it inspires you the most?

[B]

I think it's when you're walking around. I love the beauty of these structures. It was new for me too, growing up in cities that had more heritage design. So I think I took to that exploration of a new form of design and a more modern way of creating buildings and spaces and how they then affected the landscape. So as you're walking around them, and I'm walking at different times of the day, there's light hitting these buildings and it's casting all these big beautiful shadows. So as you walk around, for example, the High Court of Australia, which is near the lake in Canberra, it's got so many angles, so the beauty of the brutalism. So I love so many styles. So I walk around London and all the beautiful heritage styles, I'm just besotted. But then I'm also in a different way, completely besotted by these giant structures that are so more in your face. They're really interrupt the landscape in a way and you see them, but there's a beauty to it.

[A]

That's a good way to put it.

[B]

Yeah, there's a beauty to it. And I think cause Canberra was formed at that time. You do see these structures and this kind of architecture scattered around the city. And there's some really iconic works. So once I started looking into these and exploring further, it was just that sense, I guess, of my love of art history and reading and understanding, you know, where that movement, how they came about, how they helped to form this city, and then using that as stepping for my photographs and how they would reflect the feeling that you get from these buildings, and then as the light hit them and how they interact with you as a person, as you're walking around them, because the light's hitting them, it's casting new shapes. So many of the shapes in my designs come from photographs at different times of the day. And at one stage, they're doing this big triangle, and you've just got this shadow. So it's not always the building itself that are the shapes in the paintings and fabrics. It can be the shadows, and then I merge them. So I'll just do quite abstracted paintings. And you might have seen some. There's some on my website. I don't do as much original artwork as I would like. I think once I have a bit

[A]

more time on my own, the plate of all business ownership.

[B]

Yes. But it is the start of all the collections. And I think that architecture. And then I'll put them all together, then transform it, like put it into a digital format and really play with the shapes and turn them into repeats. And that's when I start to look at colorways. Often the colorways for the. Not the most recent collection, but the one before that, Capital Canberra, is inland, so I've never lived inland before. So it's a whole different landscape. Different trees, different foliage, so different dirt. Even around our house now, there's just this really red dirt. There's really dry grass. So the colors that come from my Shadowland collection, all the eucalypts, all the bark, and the designs will be. Color will be called that. So that whole collection did develop around more of a colorway situation, which was really inspired by the natural environment, and then that was juxtaposed to the built environment with the shapes. So that's where that collection came together. And obviously, Canberra's been a huge influence with that modernist structures and shapes and the beauty I've found in those. And I'm really excited to apply that. Like I said before, I do love traditional architecture as well. And it's. I feel like this. This business now has given me a avenue to continue exploring and learning about different periods of architecture and art and taking journeys through those different periods of history, which is something I love to read about and do. And I recently did a trip to the uk, as I mentioned before, and my camera is full of about 40,000 photos. Buildings and light and shadows all around London. I went out to the Cotswolds. I went south of London. So I've just been taking even little motifs on these buildings. So around the UK and I think in the States as well. From those more heritage buildings, there's different patterns and pattern work and scrolling and Latin motifs that I was just taken by. And we don't have that as much in the Canberra. It's more. More bold, modernist forms. So it's been really interesting to photograph that, and I'm looking forward to working on where that takes me in a new collection, which is so exciting. That sounds still architecture, still oat studio colors and beautiful linens. But, yeah, I just want to explore different art movements, different processes, different architectural styles, and keep learning. As a designer, I. And an artist.

[A]

Yeah, you hit on something that I was gonna say, which is, I find it admirable that you are able to have such appreciation for different styles, because some. And it must at least partially come from your art history degree and, like, work in art history.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe I shouldn't just not decide what I like. I just like everything. And the same with New York. Like, I just. If you ask me what I love, I'm like, I don't know. I love it all.

[A]

I mean, that's kind of great for me. It's like, you know, I have a hard time sometimes understanding, like, well, why would you make it so boxy and whatever when you could make it so detailed? And so I have been working on trying to find, like, the beauty in all different styles because there's something to be learned from all of the different ways of doing things and all the different styles of architecture, and it doesn't

[B]

mean that you have to love them all equally. If you've got your style.

[A]

Yeah, preferences.

[B]

I think you're right. There's still ways to learn from the other styles and incorporate them into yours, which can end up with something really unique and interesting. Interiors and textiles. Yeah. So I think just that idea of continuing to learn whether you. You take what you want from it, but continuing to learn about the different art movements, about the different styles, about different periods of history, I think that can only be a positive thing. Even if you're so true to yourself and your style is still the same. That core underlining, I think that's beautif. You know, yourself, you know what your color palette is or what your type of interior is, but then still being able to appreciate and discover others and use that where you can. Yeah.

[A]

Lovely. One of my favorite things about your line is the fact that you offer your designs on different fabric types and weights. What made you decide to offer that, and how do you think it's helped your business?

[B]

I think the decision to run a Curated range of linens in different weights probably comes from, from the background I'd had in distributing and working with interior designers in textiles. So as a rep, you know, and I knew people wanting sourcing for upholstery, sourcing for drapery, you. You need different weights, you need different rub rates and Martindales and ability to go into different projects in different applications. So to make the collection more versatile, I guess, and make sure the designs, where appropriate, can be used, used in different situations. I knew when sourcing the linens, I needed to have something more durable, something a bit heavier for upholstery that designers felt comfortable wrapping a chair in that was going to be used every day, which is where the heavyweight comes in. And then the lighter weight obviously has a really nice handle and drape when going into curtains or soft Roman blinds. So I guess knowing that behind the scenes application too, with window and just knowing there's different weights that suit different applications. So when planning, I wanted to make sure I was catering to that, but still tightly curated. So I think at the moment we have three different linens with our printer. So we've got a lighter weight and a heavier weight. And then I guess with Oat Studio, my love was always having an oatmeal linen. And I think I love that from the start of working in textiles. The beautiful oatmeal linens.

[A]

God, your oatmeal ground is so one of my favorite grounds of any fabric we use. I just love it.

[B]

Yes. And you used it on that beautiful chair. So I think the heavyweight oatmeal.

[A]

Yes, we've done, I mean, we've done it in a lot of places. There's so much I feel like you have probably haven't even seen. But you're saying that it's because you learn from designers and learn from your experience. But what's interesting is you would think, I think all of the other brands would have learned that by now. But like, the difference is that you took that information in and then did something different with it. I think, like, I think that is what sort of sets you apart. Because the fact that I can design, and I have for my new house already fully in my head, design a room that has, you know, draped walls in your, like drapery weight fabric with a stripe, and then do the same fabric and upholstery weight in the same room and essentially pattern drench, you know, you would think a lot more brands have that and have that ability and they just don't. And so the fact that you sort of prioritize that I find so interesting.

[B]

Yeah. I'm trying to think where. I think too, it's the need for me to have that oatmeal linen. Made me search wider for printers who had that. And then I saw the other bases and I just. As I started to look at them, because I had that need for the oatmeal along with the white. And then when I think I got some, they're different weights. And my obsession for textiles and me not being very decisive, I probably said, do it all. Yeah. And then I love working with designers, too. I love the custom side and collaboration on it. I guess working on my own as a designer in a small business, if I get the opportunity to work with another creative, I love where that opportunity is. Might take you. So it might produce a new colorway or a new weight or a new slightly different design. That is so exciting because I wouldn't have got there on my own. And I think that that's why I do offer those custom options and we offer commercial bases and wall coverings and maybe I'm making it more complicated.

[A]

No, you're not at all. I love it. I mean, it's why we spec you guys so much.

[B]

Yes. Thank you. I love the process. Yeah.

[A]

You perfectly transitioned me into my. I guess, final question, at least for these, which is I've been lucky enough to work with you on a couple custom projects, which I was just going to say is, you know, it's so fun to do custom with you. What is one thing designers should know when wanting to work on a custom project with you?

[B]

Don't let it be too overwhelming. We can make it super easy. It depends what kind of custom. If you just want to recolor color really easy, I can just send me some palettes, some paint colors, some different things. We can run tests back and forth with the printer. There's CFAs where we can send over for approval. So once you see it and sign off on it, that's what we're printing. So it's really nice and easy. If we want a full new design, I think this kind of communication, maybe more face to face talking to the designer is really great as well. Really understanding what you want, getting a sense of your space. But I get a lot of. A lot of emails from Australian designers where they'll just reach out to me and say, here's the two colours. I want this in your stripe. Is that possible? Or here's my inspiration picture. I love your stripe. Can we recolor? So, once again, super easy. I pull that color that. I think sometimes digitally, it's a little. I may need a few tests from the printer.

[A]

Sure. Of course.

[B]

You receive them on the linen, and it looks totally different than.

[A]

I'm sure that is. Story of your life.

[B]

Yeah, story of my life. Absolutely. But I'm pretty chill, too. If it comes back and it's beautiful, I'm like, oh, love it. So even better. Yeah, even better. I'm not super fussy. I think sometimes you gotta trust in the process and let it happen, and you never know what'll.

[A]

I mean, happy accidents that. Some of the best things come from

[B]

that some of my designs are happy accidents.

[A]

Same, same.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I love that.

[B]

Sometimes I just stumble upon something in Photoshop and I'm like, oh, how did that even happen? So the new design, Reflections, the layered reflections design, which has just come out last year, that was just me mucking around, probably not being as trained in pattern design as I should be. And Press did something wrong, and I just loved it. And then I'm like, roll with it. So, I mean, that's amazing.

[A]

The problem is trying to replicate it. You're like, how did I even do that?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. Don't. Don't ask.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

But then I had the design, and I just recolored it in a few colorways, and I was like, great, we're done here.

[A]

Good to go.

[B]

Yeah. So I think trying to have fun with it, too, with. With clients and designers is always nice. And. And then I think I'. But then seeing that come to life on, you know, you guys see it in a different light than I do. You see it in the room, on the chair, in the curtains. You've got the whole picture, which I don't often have.

[A]

Yeah. You're sort of seeing it in a vacuum, which must be interesting and kind of difficult.

[B]

And then I see how designers put it together, and I'm just in awe and just, like, so, you know, pinch me that they wanted to put something that, you know, it never gets old.

[A]

That's so lovely.

[B]

Which is. Is. I don't know. I think when you probably. For artists and things, if someone decides to hang your art, it just feels like, wow. Thanks, guys. Always appreciated. Yeah. And especially if I've done custom and it's something totally unexpected. I really love that, too, just as much. Yeah. And it's so exciting to see the finished product, which I don't always get to see. Like, send me more finished products, everybody.

[A]

Exactly. I need to. Specifically, I need to. But it's interior photography is taking so long right now. Now in so long. Because things are under embargo for so long that we're not able to share things. But absolutely.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I understand. No, but it's so exciting when I do get to see them and say, your work will come together. Yeah.

[A]

Well, your hard work and time and energy and all of that, getting to see it in a place that people get to enjoy every day, it's very satisfying.

[B]

It is, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I couldn't complain. I love my job, and I get to work it in with my kids and life and meet all sorts of. Of gorgeous people. So, yeah, can't complain.

[A]

Well. And you guys have such a fun and exciting design industry in Australia right now. Like, you got. There are some of the best designers coming out of Australia. I mean, the best designs in general coming out of Australia. It's incredible.

[B]

Oh. Some of the designers and their use of color and pattern. I'm really excited to see what. I think maybe you've been seeing over the States for a lot longer. I feel like it is touching our shores more and more with this color drenching and pattern. Drenching and more personality and warmth than just really creating a home rather than this space that anyone could live. I love the idea when you really curate something and that is that person, you can tell it's that person's home or. Yeah. And I think there's more and more designers creating something really special. So it's exciting, exciting, exciting.

[A]

Okay, well, before we go, our tagline at CTI is interiors that make you feel. What is something that made you feel recently, I think.

[B]

Or something that my. My little boy, he loves coming into my studio, and every time he thinks there's a discontinued fabric or something, he wants it, which is really cute.

[A]

That is so cute.

[B]

The other day, he told me he wanted to be a fashion designer, and he started to draw these dresses and things, and I just. I. You know, they go through all sorts of little phases. Who knows? But I just thought it was so sweet because he's obviously just seeing these fabrics, and maybe if I didn't have them all here, he wouldn't have done that. But it was. It was really cute to see his

[A]

creativity is being nurtured. That's so sweet. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Which I think is all part and parcel.

[A]

You have to put on some Project Runway for him. Do you know about Project Runway in Australia? You guys have that, right? Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Good, good, good, good. Yeah, that is adorable.

[B]

But, yeah, no, that was very sweet. And I could just see his little creative mind and he loves to draw. And so I get. I guess that that makes me happy in them.

[A]

So cute. How old is he?

[B]

They're all. He's 8, but I've got a 10 and a 3 year old and they all love to.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

My husband likes drawing too. I think it probably runs. Yeah.

[A]

An artistic family. I love that. I cannot say the same for my family.

[B]

That is very cute. And their drawings are very sweet.

[A]

Oh, that's so cute.

[B]

Yeah, it's always nice to see them exploring those things.

[A]

I mean, and it's gotta be nice when your kid is good at something and you're like, oh, they're actually pretty good at that. Like, that's gotta be a good feeling.

[B]

Yeah. And the best is he wanted to make a dress out of discontinued. So, like, I don't sew funnily enough. I can do a little bit. We just got the stapler, we cut it all out and stapled straps. And he is just over the moon with this new dress that is. Oh, my God, I can't wait to

[A]

see his designs in 20 years. Oh, my God.

[B]

This will be a great story when he's older.

[A]

Absolutely. You're gonna have to play this when he' at his fashion school graduation. I love it.

[B]

I do have some photos, some gorgeous photos. Oh, my God.

[A]

No, Please email them to us. We have to see. I'm dying too. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on. This has been so fun. I've loved learning about your journey.

[B]

Fun talking to you you.

[A]

Before we go, where can we find you?

[B]

Oat undersoulstudio is my Instagram handle. Got a website, just oatstudio.com. i've done a few interviews and things with people now on your podcast, I guess. Yeah. And then just like via email. So all the details and all my showrooms are listed online. And if you need any help, I guess reach out and that's very amazing. I'm here.

[A]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you all for listening. Really appreciate it. And until next week, peace be with you.

[B]

Bye.