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- [00:10]
A
Hi and welcome to Connect Safely Live. I'm your co host Larry Maggott, along with Kerry Gallagher. Hi, Kerry.
- [00:15]
B
Hi, Larry.
- [00:16]
A
And I also want to welcome Dr. Michael Rich from Harvard Medical School in the Boston. I get all Boston Hospital. We'll get him to tell where he's from in a minute. But Dr. Rich is a pediatrician, but he's also known as a mediatrician. And doctor, let's start talking about the work you do and define what is a mediatrician.
- [00:37]
C
A mediatrician is actually a pediatrician who specializes in the effects of screens on kids, physical, mental and social health. So we use the same kind of science we bring to a child's nutrition or injury prevention and bring it to their use of screens and interactive media in ways that are healthy for them, that promote them to be smarter, more productive and kinder to each other.
- [01:08]
A
And you work with the Boston Children's Hospital and you actually specialize, as far as I know, you're the only doctor I know of who actually is called a mediatrician. But your program specializes in media. So talk about why that's so important to have a health clinic that specializes in media today.
- [01:26]
C
Well, I think we have to recognize that the media that we use and how we use them have now become really an environmental health influence. Children are exposed to and using media for so much of their waking days, and yet we have not really grappled with how do we help them use them media in ways that are promoting the things we want for them, for them to be better citizens, for them to be healthier, for them to be happier and more productive. So basically, it's approaching the 21st century environment, recognizing that the screens that surround us, that are in our pockets, that we are wearing are having an influence on us. And how do we guide those influences toward the better angels of our nature?
- [02:17]
A
And of course, as both a pediatrician and an expert on media, sorry about that. My phone keeps making noises. Try to get that to stop. I want to get your perspective on the things that are in the news today. There's so many things in the news. We could take hours to talk about the Black Lives Matter movement and how parents and families can deal with the issue of racism and race division. We have the pandemic, of course, which is a huge issue for young people. We have the election coming up, which is something that's going to be on people's minds. And we also have the economic situation where I would imagine many children are coming home to parents who are no longer working and are Worried about finances. So without getting into the weeds on any of these, because it would take us hours, talk about the moment that we're in and how that affects you as a pediatrician, your patients and media.
- [03:08]
C
Well, I personally think the moment that we're in, we are about to see a second wave not just of COVID 19 infections, but of mental health issues. I think one of the real problems with these many distressing events occurring simultaneously. In an era that has been called by many the post truth era, kids really do not know what to believe and who to believe. And that insecurity, as well as the unknown nature of how long this will go on, how much in danger are we actually in, et cetera. That leaves them with a constant state of anxiety. And the level of cortisol, our stress hormone, is all very high. And so we're seeing upticks in anxiety and depression, but also related conditions like eating disorders, substance use, and problematic interactive media use. Kids kind of disappearing into interactive gaming, into social media, into pornography really, as an environment that they feel they can control and master.
- [04:27]
B
So as you're talking about some of the pitfalls of media use that children and families might be falling into, are there any examples of media that might actually help with these conversations about insecurity and anxiety that parents and families can consider using?
- [04:44]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And I want to really emphasize the fact that it is not the technology, it is not the media that's the problem. It's. It's what we're doing with them. So the very same social media on which you can, you know, get anxious because everybody else is happier than you are and has a better life than you and a better looking boyfriend, it's also the same. With that same medium, we can bring kids together, bring people together, people who are responding to the Black Lives Matter issue by picking up a broom and a shovel and cleaning up their neighborhood. And so the same medium is being used in entirely different ways. So I think it's really important for us to be mindful in our use and directed in our use of media with a goal in mind. It's the undirected use and the sort of distraction or diversion use of it that can get us in trouble.
- [05:44]
B
So as a parent, I have an 8 year old and an 11 year old and their last day of school is Friday. And I think that's because you and I are in the Northeast, Dr. Rich. And so our school year tends to go a lot later than the rest of the country where folks have already transitioned into summer. And so it's really essential that they're on screens for part of the day because they have a responsibility to complete their schoolwork and attend their virtual classes. But then of course, they want a little bit of a brain break, I guess you could call it, and they want to hop on and play roblox or watch YouTube. So when you look at all of that time put together, I also happen to be a school administrator, so I see both sides of this. Right. I'm seeing from the parent side the concern of my children being on a screen actually a lot more time than what I'm accustomed to. But the educator side of me is saying, well, they need to be on a screen in order to access their academics. So could you talk a little bit about the balance that we're trying to strike and how as parents it's okay for us to feel torn during this time?
- [06:41]
C
Well, first of all, I encourage all of my parents, not just in this time and on this issue. Don't waste your energy on guilt. We are not going to be perfect from the get go. Let's understand that parenting is more of an art than a science, even though it can be guided by and directed by science, that it really is more of an art. And the remarkable thing is kids are incredibly resilient. As long as they know we are there for them, we are doing our best for them, they bounce back. So that's the first piece of it. But, and here's where I'm going to betray my optimism as a pediatrician. I think that there is a potential real silver lining to this sort of lost semester, if you will, where everybody went in haphazard ways into remote learning. And that is that for many kids, particularly kids tweens in your age group are had seen the Internet as a playground. It basically was the place that they went when, you know, when they had downtime, when they wanted to have fun, etc. Now they've had a semester of it being a tool, a workplace, a place where they go to class, a place where they do homework, where they do projects. Some of them did theater, and even my 14 year old son had soccer practice on Zoom. So I think that what we are seeing is two really interesting things. Number one is that instead of it being a pure playground, they are seeing effective ways to use it as a tool. The other thing is they're getting burned out on screens just like you and I are. And so maybe when they are done all that work, they'll want to shut the laptop and walk away and they'll want to go out and kick a ball around or climb a tree or something. So I'm really hopeful that if we can recognize that and sort of nurture and direct it so that they are more interested in other things because they're burned out on staring at a screen, I think that could be potentially a great thing.
- [08:59]
A
I'm glad you mentioned that, because I've heard other anecdotal stories of that. Also about kids who say, I just want to get away from the screen for a while, get outside. And again, similar, I think, to the way many adults feel. I mean, I really look forward to a certain time in the afternoon when I can go for a walk and get away from screens. And last thing I want to do is even look at my phone while I'm walking. But let's talk about screen time. One of the things that I know you've done over the years is questioned the former guidelines from the American Academy of Pediatricians, which had very arbitrary limits on screen times. And you were part of the movement to kind of make that much more nuanced and specific in terms of the types of activities. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit about that also, in light of what's going on today, as you mentioned, with the fact that people, whether they want to or not, are being put in front of screens. And how did that affect how parents should handle their kids when they want to go off and play with Roblox or YouTube or whatever they do for recreation?
- [09:57]
C
Well, part of my pushback on the screen time limits was the concept of screen time limits, per se. I think it's very important to limit screen time. But once you create screen time limits, you're creating the forbidden fruit. And so kids would come home from school, and what would they do? They'd get right on the screen, and they would take right up to that one hour they're allowed. And at the end of that hour, what would happen? Absolutely nothing. So an hour and 15 minutes later, you know, mom or dad comes up and says, hey, you've got homework to do. Don't you want to go out and play with your friends, whatever? And the kid would be whining, oh, I want to see the end of this show, or I want to get it level up or whatever it is. And so it became a conflict every time. And so not only that, but there was really no data that supported that a certain amount of screen time was okay, but then you fell off a cliff, you know, and it wasn't so good. And really the issue is not how much time you're on the screen, but what you're doing on the screen. And is that as valuable as what that time on the screen may be displacing. Right. So in other words, if you are on the screen and you're working hard away at Minecraft or Roblox or something of that nature and interacting with friends, that may be as valuable as interacting with your friends out in the park or something of that nature. In fact, many kids, you know, for all the fear parents have about Fortnite, many kids that I talk to who are into Fortnite don't talk about it as a game or a competition. They talk about it as hanging out with their friends. And so we have to take into account the whole experience in the sense that there's social emotional growth going on, just as when they would go out to the sandlot and play baseball and argue about I was out, no, I wasn't, you know, whatever, whatever. And so this is all part of growing up. So I think we have to take a step back and really look at our child's 24 hour day. Making sure that they get enough sleep, making sure that they get a sit down family meal once a day, making sure they get outside and get physically and get some physical exercise, just get their yaya's out. And really what we owe our kids is a rich and diverse menu of experience which can include screens. And there isn't a magic number about how much is enough, how much is too much. It really is more about balancing our lives just like we balance our diets.
- [12:42]
B
I love what you said there. I want to pause briefly before our next question and just let our audience know that we're taking live questions as well for Dr. Rich. So if you're watching us on Facebook, you can put your questions right in the comments. And if you're watching us on Zoom, there's a Q and A feature and you can click there and enter your questions there. And Larry and I will ask on your behalf once those pop in. So, Dr. Rich, I hope you don't mind taking some audience questions.
- [13:06]
C
I don't at all. In fact, as you know, I have an online advice column and a podcast called Ask the Media Attrition.
- [13:14]
B
Yeah, well, and we'll definitely share how people can access those later in the show. I really liked what you said about using those that screen time and those platforms for socializing. My 11 year old often has her iPhone up FaceTiming her friend while she's simultaneously playing Roblox on her Chromebook at The same time with that friend. And so oftentimes I'm sort of privy to their conversations. It's kind of akin to what used to be driving the car with the kids in the back and them talking and forgetting that you're there. So when you talk about that socialization, how can parents really get insights into what their kids are talking about without violence violating that, like, privacy that kids do deserve with their conversations with their friends?
- [13:55]
C
Well, let's take a step back and talk about privacy for a second.
- [13:59]
A
Sure.
- [14:01]
C
Privacy as understood by a child and privacy as understood by an adult are entirely different things. Because of neurodevelopment, you know, we don't fully develop our prefrontal cortex, our area of executive function, which is impulse control, future thinking, cause and effect, judgment, all of those kinds of things, until we're in our mid to late 20s. And so if you ask your daughter what privacy means, she's gonna say, so mom and dad can't hear.
- [14:29]
A
Right.
- [14:30]
C
You know, it's like the diary that one would have locked up in one's bedside stand, you know, And I think that that is very important, but it also is important for parents to be involved and engaged with their children's screen use. And what I mean by that, for example, I really push back, and as Larry has alluded, I push back a lot at some of the kind of established tropes of Internet use, One of them being Internet safety, because it presumes the Internet is unsafe. But another one that I push back against is the concept of parental controls. You know, all of the companies say we've got great parental controls, this, that, and the other. Well, there is no kid on the face of the earth who wants to be controlled by their parents. Right. And so I think what we should be.
- [15:25]
B
Still don't, by the way.
- [15:26]
C
I'm sorry?
- [15:27]
B
I said I still don't, by the way.
- [15:31]
C
That's true. But that being said, I think we should be moving toward parental engagement in the sense that, you know, here is a very powerful tool that we are just throwing at little kids. We're just handing smartphones to 2 year olds saying, you know, to entertain themselves. We would never do that with a power saw. We would never do that with an automobile, you know, with those we teach them. We are there side by side with them, teaching them to use these tools at a time when they are able to physically and psychologically handle that tool at a time when they need that tool. And yet we don't do that with the Internet. And so I would really like to Shift the focus from parental controlling to parental engaging. And what I mean by that is play games with your kid. Do Roblox with your child. You know, and instead of hating Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty or whatever, sit down and play it with your child. Because a very interesting thing is happening there. Number one is they're gonna beat you, right? What a wonderful experience for a kid to be better than their parent at something. You are entering their environment, saying, I love you, I respect you, I want you. I want to understand what you enjoy about this, what makes this special for you. And then, you know, you're also coming in sort of as the student to them. So that when you finally learn how to beat up prostitutes in Grand Theft Auto, you can, as a parent, say, now why would you want to do that? And you're coming from a different place. You're not wagging a finger at your child. You're sort of saying, as the child's student, okay, why would you want to spend your day rehearsing this as opposed to doing. Doing other things? So I think that the more that we can use media side by side with our children and introduce them to it and have them teach us because they are facile at these tools, let's make it part of an experience that we do together.
- [17:55]
A
Michael, I'm glad you said that about parents getting involved in kids media. When my children were growing up, especially during their teen years, my wife established a policy which is that they could listen to any music they wanted to in the car stereo, as long as it came out of the speakers and not through the headphones, you know, didn't matter what they want to listen to. And so one day my daughter was listening to Eminem, which, as you know, is quite misogynistic. Its lyrics are quite misogynistic. And that elicited a really interesting discussion about his lyrics, about his using the B word, which I said was analogous to the N word, although there is still a debate over that. But the point is that we had a conversation which was so much more valuable than simply having them go off and sneak around and listen to these music anyway without the benefit of that mutual exchange. And by the way, I actually came to kind of like him. I didn't like his lyrics, but I think he. I came to appreciate the fact he's a good musician. But it brings up the broader question I want to ask. And you mentioned video games and alluded to some violent video games. So I want to ask them both at the same time, but not get the Answer at the same time, because I think the answers are going to be different. Violent video games is one thing that kids use, that parents, some kids use, that many adults are concerned about, and the other is pornography. It's no secret that young people, including especially boys and I suspect some girls, are going to gravitate towards pornography. And I wanted to get your perspective on when it's problematic, when it's seriously problematic. And how do you respond to the fact that your kids may be looking at this at least part of the time.
- [19:29]
C
Kerry, you want to go first?
- [19:33]
B
How would I respond if my children were using those? I don't know. We haven't encountered that yet. But again, I think, Larry, the question that you asked about why do you want to listen to this? You know, how does this make you feel when you listen to it? You know, who introduced you to it? Where did you find it? What was the circumstance? Have you listened to it with your friends before? What do you talk about when you're listening to it? I think those are some of the questions that I would ask before jumping into anything accusatory or overly emotional on my part. Hopefully, Michael, I answered correctly.
- [20:10]
C
I'm waiting as we go along.
- [20:13]
A
Ian, the Harvard Medical professor I know.
- [20:16]
C
No, I would say that that's a good approach. I mean, what you're essentially doing is listening, listening to the child, letting the child teach you. I think one has to be careful with how one phrases those questions, like who introduced you to this? Because that could be a little shaming or accusatory, like, I'm gonna talk to that kid's parents really quick. But from our perspective, and we have a dedicated clinic at Boston Children's Hospital, the Clinic for Interactive Media and Internet Disorders that deals with what we call problematic interactive media use. Some people have labeled this Internet addiction or smartphone addiction, whatever it is not an addiction. It does not meet medical criteria for an addiction in the sense that there's physiologic change when using and especially when withdrawing. But I think there are some other distinctions, particularly with young people, that are really important. The word addiction is great for grabbing people's attention. It's a great lightning rod, but it's very stigmatizing. And so what ends up happening is parents look at their 10 year old who is having trouble, you know, stopping playing Fortnite and going to bed or getting homework done. And they don't see, you know, a junkie in a shooting gallery or a bum on skid row. They see a pain in the butt, you know, and so they don't see that as something that needs or can benefit from an intervention. And as with anything like this, the longer it goes on, the harder it is to deal with. And so we would love to not only get to these kids early, but we are in this clinic learning a lot about how kids get into it. So we can hopefully feed that information upstream to the primary care pediatricians, to school guidance counselors, to teachers and administrators like you, Kerry, and say here's some early signs and how we can redirect away from pai mu or problematic interactive media use. You will notice that we do not use the word addiction, nor do we name a technology because we do not believe that this is a technology's fault. Pogo was right. We have met the enemy and he is us. It's what we do with the technology that really matters. And again, this goes back to parents engaging with their kids and both teaching and modeling healthy media use. Larry, you asked at the beginning, how do you know when it's too much? How do you know when it's gone over the line? And sort of our criteria is when it becomes dysfunctional for the child, when it is affecting sleep, when it is affecting mood, when kids are not coming to the table and having dinner with their family, when they're falling down on their homework, etc. When they are not able to maintain relationships, et cetera, then you deal with it. But you don't deal with it on a certain number of hours. You deal with it on what is happening and what is not happening because of this use.
- [23:32]
A
So Michael, I'm sure this will come as no surprise to you that teenagers are often sexual beings. Some are sexually active, some are looking at pornography, some are sexting. And I'd wonder if you talk about sort of the sexual use of media both in terms of personal gratification or whatever, and sharing images as part of a relationship, which traditionally called sexting.
- [23:56]
C
Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. First of all, they're not waiting till they're teenagers. You know, the average age of coming across porn is now nine. And you know, unfortunately because of ethical reasons, it's very hard to study kids use of pornography. Because to me, the more interesting question is not have you run across pornography online? But what did you do when you ran across it? Did you stay there? Did you explore it further? Were you freaked out? And here is a perfect example of why it's great to have an ongoing dialogue and engagement with your parents around what goes on online. Because when kids come across pornographic images early on in their development they're freaked out, they're weirded out, it's creepy or confusing, whatever. And if they have an ongoing dialogue with parents, they can, they can sort of help sort that out and understand that moving away from it is the best defense, is the best way to take care of oneself. And, you know, across the board, and porn's a good example of it. What I really encourage kids to do and encourage parents to encourage their kids to do is respect themselves and respect each other online. And that means taking care of yourself and taking care of those whom you care about. Now what we are seeing with the use though is that, for example, you bring up sexting, the use of the online space to exchange sexually oriented images or text, et cetera. Sexting is in some ways kind of like what smoking was in the 60s. It's an adult behavior that you do because it's an adult behavior in some ways. I had a 15 year old girl say to me, what's the big deal about sexting? It's the new second base. You know, it's how we move into sexual behavior. And so I think that we have to take a step back and sort of see how it fits into the bigger picture of things. You know, I mean, you know, they're not, you know, finding Playboys under dad's bed anymore. They can, with one click, come to extreme pornography. But then, you know why? As they start to explore what sexuality means to themselves, they start to see that it is, it is a currency in a way. You know, somebody they're interested in romantically, they can sort of offer it to them or coerce somebody into giving it to them, you know, giving it back to you. And so I think that the key thing here is that pornography as it exists right now is largely fairly misogynistic and is certainly objectification of both males and females. And what I'm also seeing, interestingly, is increasing difficulty in adolescents and young adults into sort of full sexual maturity. In the sense that if they, first of all, if they spent their adolescence masturbating to pornography, achieving orgasm, many of them, or I've seen many young people who've come to me and sort of said, you know, or my interpretation of what they related was that they, by virtue of being able to achieve orgasm without overcoming one's fear of intimacy, one's fear of awkwardness, you know, they never learned how to flirt, they never learned how to interact and let someone know they're attracted to them, you know, sort of the dance, you know, of courting. And then, you know, they're in college and they have no clue what to do. I also think that because pornography is their first exposure to sex, and pornography, like all entertainment, is extreme and ideal. You know, they say my body doesn't look like that, My body doesn't work like that. My partner's body doesn't look like or work like that. She or he doesn't want sex all the time. You know, and so they feel inadequate. They feel, you know, either unable to start, unable to complete or unwilling to even try because they feel intimidated. So, you know, I think that we have to be really conscious of exactly how that material influences, particularly the developing mind and body.
- [29:03]
B
Thank you for that. I think that's really helpful for parents because I think the old Supreme Court ruling that pornography is, you know, when you see it right doesn't really provide us a lot of scientific guidance on the impact it's going to have. It's something that feels wrong isn't the same as something where there's evidence to help us explain it. So I think that's really helpful. I want to switch gears here because we're running close to the end of our time and I feel like we would be remiss if we didn't specifically talk about the ongoing racial strife and hopefully the conversation that's happening with more frequency now and we won't let it go like we have in the past. And while the conversation is sort of top of mind in the media and in politics and among pro trumpets testers, a lot of us are spending a lot of time at home with our children when our children are seeing that on the media. You know, there's a lot of us as parents who specifically I'm speaking from my own perspective as a white parent who, you know, I'm still learning myself about my own racism and anti racism and where I fall and what I can do. So as someone who's still learning, while I'm also trying to teach my children, how can we help our children manage that media, that it's almost impossible to shield them from it at this point emotionally and intellectually under these circumstances.
- [30:30]
C
Well, you said something very important, and that is I'm still learning. And the reality is we all are. And the moment we think we've stopped learning, we're in trouble. That once we figure, once we have to get to that place where we think we've got it figured out, we think we know the way the world is, is when we stop growing and expanding and we stop risk taking in terms of really going out and exposing ourselves Acknowledging our vulnerabilities and our limitations and trying to direct, you know, to improve them. So I think that that attitude is really the way to go so that we don't present to our children that we know it all. I think media are a complicating factor in this, particularly in the post truth era, because depending on what station you're on, you're going to get very, very different stories and different perspectives. And I think that one of the interesting things that's going on right now is a reexamination of many of the things that we didn't even really think about, such as HBO pulling Gone with the Wind off the Air, Aunt Jemima as a brand being withdrawn. That we accepted these things as part of the fabric of life and really didn't think very deeply about what the origins of that are, what the preconceptions that underlie them are. And so I think that we are doing a serious self examination here, which I think needs to be a work in progress always. In other words, I think we have to constantly be doing it because we all have implicit bias, not necessarily just around race, but around many, many things. Around religion, around right and wrong, around politics. You know, just, you can run the list. Virtually every kind of format of interaction in humanity, we have implicit bias in. And so I think that to be more explicit and more open, not just about belief systems, but about where we fall short and where we have the guts to acknowledge that we are learning.
- [33:09]
A
You know, Michael, it's interesting you're saying about how things are changing. And while I think the term defund the police might not be the best way to describe what people are looking for, I do like the fact that we're thinking about replacing things that are traditionally done by armed police, by mental health counselors, by intervention specialists, by community. Community intervention. And the whole idea that we're even reconsidering what it means, what law enforcement means, could turn into a very positive discussion if we can depoliticize it and really think about what's best for our communities.
- [33:42]
C
Right. Well, we have to remember what's written on the sides of the police cars to protect and serve lapd. That that is not military, that is not a military action, that is nurturing, that is protecting from harm, that is serving people. And we've gotten into a very adversarial relationship with police. And it's not just the African American community, it's most of us. I mean, you can be driving down the street and you see blue lights flashing behind you, you feel guilty you know, not just for what check your speed limit says, but for everything you've ever done in your whole life.
- [34:21]
A
Right. Do they know?
- [34:23]
C
Right. How'd they find out?
- [34:28]
B
So we promised that we would ask some audience questions. So again, this is a big shift in gears. So pardon me for the quick topic change, but we have one for you. And I think this goes back to what you were talking about with the physiological, whether media use can have a physiological impact on a child and you know, get in the way of them performing normal tasks like their academic work, you know, eating meals with family, having social relationships. So this mother is asking my 11 year old son's facial and body tics are worse right now. And she thinks, the mother thinks it's the prolonged months of increased screen time. Do you have thoughts about that, that physiological response?
- [35:09]
C
Well, certainly, because there is no question that when you are gaming, when you are doing anything online, it's very interactive. Your heart rate goes up, your blood pressure goes up, the level of epinephrine of adrenaline in your body goes up. And so any agitation is going to be amplified. And I'm not saying that that doesn't occur. What I'm saying is that it doesn't occur consistently in everybody. The same way that, for example, when one does heroin or one does cocaine or one does nicotine or alcohol, that your body changes in certain ways. And in particular it's about withdrawal. You know, in many ways withdrawal is the measure of real addiction, which is what happens when you're not doing something you've been doing a lot of and how does your body respond to that? So I think that one of the things that we're realizing about this are two really interesting things. Number one is those kids who have sort of gotten out of control with their gaming or social media, that they in every case so far have had an underlying psychological issue that they were responding to. So kids with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder often go deeply into gaming for a couple of reasons. Number one is it's way more understandable and controllable than the classroom with all these kind of different things grabbing at your attention. And they are actually in many ways better at gaming than neurotypical kids because of their distractibility. And so it is a place of relative mastery for them. Kids with anxiety are drawn to social media because it feels safer, but actually makes them feel worse in many ways. And so, first of all, we do not think this is a standalone diagnosis, but is rather a syndrome or a collection of symptoms that of other conditions manifesting themselves in the interactive media environment. And in many ways, we really make it more akin to binge eating disorder than to an addiction, because binge eating disorder is overuse of a necessary resource. Interactive media are a necessary resource to study, to work, to communicate, to entertain oneself. These days, it is continued overuse despite negative consequences. And perhaps the key distinction from true addiction is that with true addiction, abstinence is the goal of therapy. You cannot abstain from interactive media any more than you can abstain from food. And so the goal here really is self regulation and directed, focused use.
- [38:07]
A
Michael, this has been great, and unfortunately we're running out of time. But before we go, I want you to talk a little bit about the resources that the center for Media and Child Health offers on its websites, including this great new wellness guide that you just published. So talk a little bit about the guide and other resources on your site.
- [38:23]
C
Great. Yeah. Well, the center on Media and Child Health at Boston Children's Hospital, accessible at CMCH tv, has many, many resources for parents there. But this most recent guide is kind of like Dr. Spock as infant and child care, but for the digital age. The family Digital Wellness Guide goes through childhood right from infancy to adolescence, and at each stage talks about what developmental tasks are happening at that time, how media interact with them in positive and negative ways, and the ways that parents can help guide the kids to more effective, happier use of those media, keep an eye out for potential problems and how to interact with them. It even has how do I talk to my kids about this? Because it's really awkward. And so there are even sort of scripts and role playing we call Icebreakers, which is how do I talk to my kid about playing a video game that I'm not so sure about, etc. So I encourage people to use it. I encourage people also to give us feedback about areas that they would like covered, because we also see this as a living document and as something that as we all get smarter as our children get older, but also as the electronic environment evolves, we need to be responding to it and thoughtfully approaching it in ways that are not based in values, good and bad, right and wrong, like we used to in the old TV days about the idiot box and the boob tube, but are really based on a deep, scientifically based knowledge of how we are changed by the media we use and how we use them, and then guide it. How do we guide that toward the best outcome we can for our children?
- [40:25]
A
And Michael, I'm really glad you broke this down by developmental stages, because one of the things that annoys me about a lot of Internet education is they treat 2 year olds and 17 year olds as if they're the same. I mean, the idea of child safety that has such a different meaning when your kid's about to go off to college than it does when your kid's just getting out of diapers.
- [40:43]
C
Absolutely. Or still in them.
- [40:45]
A
Right. Kerry, you any wrap up for you or should we just.
- [40:51]
B
No, I mean, thank you. I think the guide in particular is really helpful for me as an educator as well. We run a lot of programming at my school for parents and also specifically for the students that we serve at different age levels. And often when we're specifically talking to parents of children, some parents have a 17 year old and a 10 year old and a 5 year old and helping them understand that the rule that you had for your 17 year old when he was 10 may not feel fit the 10 year old today. Because media has changed so quickly, I think that the idea that it's a living document and that things are changing rapidly is a really important point to make here as well.
- [41:30]
C
And also with kids of different ages, just as in the big world, equality is not equity. We are seeking equity here. What is right for each, not what is exactly the same. And a lot of times kids will get bent out of shape, hey, my older brother gets to do this and I don't. This is about equity, Michael.
- [41:51]
A
We'll have to leave it there. Thank you so much. Michael Rich, the mediatrician, pediatrician from Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School. We really appreciate you taking the time.
- [42:02]
C
We really appreciate the time to talk. It's always enjoyable to talk to you.
- [42:06]
A
And Carrie and Kerry, thank you once again for your great insight.
- [42:09]
B
Yeah, thank you, Larry. And thank you. Thank you, Michael.