Carter Roy (4:07)

You might not have heard of Wycliffe well, Australia, but according to Lonely planet, it's the fifth best place in the world to see UFOs. Marketing materials for the town say sightings are so common that if you stayed up all night looking, you would be considered unlucky not to see anything. No one lives in Wycliffe well anymore. Bad flooding turned the place into a Ghost Town in 2022, so its current population is zero, but you can still visit. The place looks like an intergalactic theme park. There are big murals and mannequins of little green men, signs welcoming humans and aliens. There's even a homemade UFO landing pad. Reports of unidentified flying objects in the area date back to the 1940s, when World War II soldiers documented strange sightings in a shared binder. That tradition of collecting reports from visitors continued into the 21st century. Entries in journals talk about lights chasing people down highways and aliens materializing out of thin air. There are theories about why UFO activity is so common in Wycliffe well, some think it has something to do with the landmarks in the area, like these giant rock formations here known as Devil's Marbles. They say the town lies on invisible, energetic lines that act as magnetic highways for strange phenomena. Others say it's connected to what could be happening farther away, miles and miles down a long desert highway. See, for most of its history, Wycliffe, well mostly served as a stopover town for those traveling to more populous destinations. That includes a town in Australia's Northern Territory called Alice Springs. It's home to roughly 26,000 people, and about 800 of them work at Pine Gap, a high security government facility located about 20 miles outside of town. It was originally given the codename Rainfall. In all caps, Pine Gap is one of the most secretive places on Earth. It's located at the end of a dead end road in a portion of the outback known as the Red Center. Due to the hue of its landscape, visitors and trespassers are strictly forbidden. The signage outside makes that clear. The only way to actually see the base without clearance is to fly over it or climb the mountain ranges that surround the gated area on all sides. Or, well, you can find it on Google Maps. It has some very distinctive features, like the dome shaped structures that conceal and protect its satellite dishes. You can see them on your screen right now. They kind of look like really large golf balls. Or the Spaceship Earth ride at Disney World's Epcot. Given its top secret nature, we still don't know much of what actually happens at Pine Gap. The residents of Alice Springs apparently have lots of opinions about it, but few are willing to talk about what happens inside. Why? Well, it may have something to do with the fact that according to one Alice Springs resident, loose lipped employees have disappeared in the past. They were there one day, gone the next. Here's what we do know about Pine Gap. It was launched in 1966 as a joint venture between the United States and Australia. Officially, it was meant to be used for space research, hence the really high tech satellites. And the base became fully operational in 1970. When it opened, about 400American families moved to Alice Springs, making good on government officials promise that Pine Gap would create jobs and boost the local economy. But by some accounts, Americans weren't the only foreign arrivals. Reports of UFOs in the area date back to before the base was completely done. Like this one from 1969. That June, a man named Jim Ebert and his wife visited Alice Springs. On their drive back home to Barrow Creek, they said they saw a strange object in the sky. It was early in the morning. It looked almost like a coin spinning on its edge in the sky. As it spun, it apparently changed colors, oscillating between green and red. At some point, the lights turned to ordinary fluorescence. Jim said he wasn't a drinker. He claimed he wouldn't have even told anyone about the sighting. But a few nights later, a stranger came into his son in law's hotel who had witnessed the exact same thing. In fact, according to reports, five different people, all unrelated and in different areas, supposedly saw the exact same object. Newspaper accounts suggest there were many more similar sightings in the 60s and 70s. Then in 1981, two Aboriginal men actually found a metal space orb weighing more than 4kg while out hunting in the area. They handed it over to authorities who said they believed it was a chunk of Skylab at first, but they ultimately changed their story without much explanation. They said the orb was foreign, but still of this planet, probably Russian in origin. Then, in December 1989, three witnesses claim they saw something that directly connected all the unusual activity to Pine Gap. They allegedly watched what they called a camouflaged door open up on the grounds of the facility, presumably from one of the surrounding ridges. They said they saw a metallic disk rise from the inner chamber without making a sound and shoot away at an incredible speed. Like Jim Ebert's account, this allegedly happened in the early hours of the morning around 4:30am it's stories like these that have made some question whether Pine Gap was meant for more than space research. Some have suggested it might have been created in part to house alien life on Earth.

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Carter Roy (13:27)

Perhaps the most famous Australian UFO sighting happened in in January 1988. What began as a routine drive from Perth to Melbourne for the Knowles family quickly spiraled into a nightmare encounter. Fay Knowles and her adult sons Patrick, Wayne, and Sean first saw the object in the early morning hours while it was still dark. According to Fay, it looked like a glowing ball and made a horrible humming noise. At first, it appeared to be following two vehicles traveling in the opposite direction as their car. But at some point, it turned around and started chasing them. Sean was driving at the time. He said he floored the car to more than 100 miles per hour to get away from the object, but it didn't work. The light easily caught up with them and then landed on the roof of their car. It apparently shook the vehicle violently. As it did, the Knowles family said it felt like time slowed and their voices became distorted, like they were speaking in slow motion. Faye said she was hysterical and screaming. Eventually, the object forced the car back onto the road with enough pressure that one of its tires blew out. That's when Fay rolled down her window. She later told reporters, quote, I felt this thing on the roof. All of the smoke stuff started coming into the car. The car was covered in black stuff. It was a small light, and all of a sudden it became like a big ball. We thought we were dying. Then we got out the car and we hid behind a little tree and the bushes and. And it couldn't find us. The ordeal supposedly lasted about 90 minutes. The Knowles family reported the incident to the police when they reached their destination. Given the damaged state of their car, which was dented and covered in unusual dust, authorities took their account seriously. Later, other witnesses came forward to say they also saw the light that terrorized the family. The Knowles incident didn't happen near Pine Gap. It occurred on a highway that ran through Nullarbor Plain in South Australia. But the reason we mention it is because a spokesperson for Pine Gap was asked about the incident. A reporter wanted to know if the facility's satellites could pick up UFOs flying through Nullarbor Plain. Which seems like an innocent enough question if you ask us. But rather than answer with a simple yes or no, the spokesperson said they couldn't provide any comment. Now, there have apparently been hundreds of strange flashing lights spotted near the Pine Gap base over the years, and not all reports rely solely on witness testimony. A video taken by one NASA satellite captured a strange flying object on. On film. Here's the Rio Grande sun describing what happens. In the recording, A small object appears over the Earth's horizon and moves left across the screen. There's a bright flash, and the object makes a sudden direction change and speeds out of orbit, trailed by two Projectiles from the Earth. Some say it moved with capabilities unlike any aircraft known to humankind. Of course, even with video footage, it's hard to know what to believe, what could have a reasonable explanation, and what should be cause for concern. There are plenty of unverified claims floating around the Internet. Like one that claims two cops saw aliens beaming some kind of light down onto one of Pine Gap's big satellite domes. Or another about a man who was allegedly recruited by aliens to become a Men in Black type figure. And Pine Gap plays a role in some really popular UFO conspiracy theories. For example, many theorists believe that a giant UFO crash landed on Earth and and government officials are hiding it somewhere. Since it was way too big to move, they either buried it or built structures around it. Importantly, the craft is said to have crashed outside of the United States, but in a place the US Government still had access to. Which is why Pine Gap has become a popular theory. As one Redditor put it, the facility is historically known in conspiracy circles as having a massive underground facility. That may or may not be true. But the wildest part is it's not just us who are unsure about what happens at Pine Gap. Historically, even the most powerful Australian politicians have been kept in the dark. Let's travel back in time more than 50 years to when Pine Gap was in its infancy. It's December 1972. Gough Whitlam, the charismatic leader of Australia's Labor Party, becomes the country's next prime minister. He has a brand new, some would say radical, vision for his country's future. An independent Australia less reliant on external powers like Britain and the United States. For starters, he wants to claw back control of his country's vast mineral and energy supplies from foreign corporations. And during his campaign, he makes a very specific promise to the Australian people. He will find out what's really happening at Pine Gap and share its secrets with the public. But that never ends up happening. Whitlam makes good on a lot of promises. Under his leadership, Australia sees historic social reforms that includes the advancement of women and LGBT rights and new programs that grant land to Aboriginal Australians. But when it comes to Pine Gap, he never offers the transparency he promised. He goes back to the Australian people with next to no information. He says Pine Gap won't be used in any wars. But that's about all he can say. It's a strange comment to make about a facility allegedly meant for space research. And the public doesn't get any more context for years. Meanwhile, tensions flare between Pine Gap's two joint operators. Australia and the United States. Remember, Whitlam's entire platform is about severing ties with foreign powers. So the US views his administration as a threat to its interests, and Whitlam knows as much. He anticipates that his staff will be harassed by agencies with close ties to American intelligence. But he doesn't water down his views, especially about the war still raging in Vietnam. In private letters, he tells President Richard Nixon to stop the war. He publicly calls the United States bombing campaign corrupt and barbaric and evacuates any remaining Australian troops. His vision for the country is one that opposes nuclear weapons testing and embraces the Non Aligned Movement attempting to remove Australia from the phrase of the world stage. It's a stunning reversal of posture. Australia once went out of their way to help the US invade Vietnam, and the shift in foreign policy causes Nixon and his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger to fly into a fury. The American president literally adds Australia to the actual shit list of countries that he keeps ranking them number two behind only Sweden. The reaction is so bad that CIA agents in Saigon are told to consider Australians North Vietnamese collaborators moving forward. But it only gets worse after Whitlam makes an announcement on the floor of Parliament in 1974. He says the Australian government takes the attitude that there should not be foreign military bases, stations, installations in Australia. We honor agreements covering existing stations. We do not favor the extension or prolongation of any of those existing ones. In other words, Australia won't be renewing Pine Gaps lease at this point. Whitlam has already severed ties with the CIA. He learned the US plotted to overthrow Chile's President Salvador Allende in September 1973 and didn't approve of the interference. But it's the announcement that Australia could put an end to Pine Gap that sends Washington into a panic. The US Government is incredibly invested in keeping the facility up and running, so much so that some historians believe the CIA, together with Britain's MI6 launch a secret conspiracy to to remove Whitlam from power. Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy the Navy offers new graduates hands on training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine, plus education. And sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career today@navy.com you say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit, or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn why@navy.com America's Navy forged by the sea Gough Whitlam faces a number of challenges in his time as The Prime Minister of Australia. In 1973, global oil prices soar and the worldwide stock market crashes. Australia enters its worst recession since the Great Depression. Profits tank, inflation takes off, factories close, workers are laid off. Historic labor union strikes happen all across the country. And to make matters worse, Whitlam doesn't have control of the Senate. So his administration has a really hard time getting legislation passed. He tries a couple of Hail Marys to get bills through, including calling for a double dissolution election where all seats in the Senate go up for re election. But ultimately, nothing works. He always ends up right back in a political deadlock, stagnant. Then his party gets wrapped up in a scandal. In 1975, a a few senior ministers approach some controversial financiers in the Middle east about obtaining some large loans. They're trying to fund sweeping infrastructure projects like an updated energy grid for the country and a brand new gas pipeline. But when the opposing party finds out it doesn't look good, at least one gets caught lying about the negotiations, which naturally hurts public trust. Meanwhile, a pro business millionaire named Malcolm Frazier has taken control of the opposition party, which is music to the ears of some influential capitalists like Rupert Murdoch. You know, the chairman and CEO behind Fox and News Corp. Seizing an opportunity, Murdoch starts actively campaigning for Whitlam's removal. With his party losing favor, Whitlam tries one last ditch effort to get something passed in the Senate. He asks his Governor general, a man named Sir John Kerr, to hold a special half Senate election. But it completely backfires. Not only does Kerr shut down Whitlam's idea, he removes Whitlam from power entirely. He invokes a constitutional power so rare that no one had used it before to dismiss a sitting prime minister, and no one has used it since. In Parliament, Kerr turns to Whitlam, hands him a document with the termination order on it, and says, before we go any further, I have to tell you that I have decided to terminate your commission. Confused, Whitlam asks if he's discussed it with any other federal officials, to which Kerr responds, it's too late for you. I have terminated your commission. It's a brutal and public exchange. And to add insult to injury, in a matter of minutes, Kerr then installs Malcolm Fraser, Whitlam's millionaire political rival, as the interim or caretaker prime minister. Mind you, at this point, tensions are so high in Australia that many were already worried about political violence. But Whitlam tells his supporters to maintain their rage. It's a controversial moment in Australian history, and the political implications are enormous. The Official story is that Kerr made the decision to remove Whitlam from of his own accord to benefit his country. He was doing what he thought was right. Afterwards, Kerr even writes a letter to the Queen saying he did Whitlam a favor by sacking him. But some historians have since argued there's more to the story than meets the eye. According to Australian journalist John Pilger, top secret messages sent by the CIA, which have since been decoded, prove that John Kerr was in the CIA's pocket. The US intelligence agency apparently paid for some of Kerr's travel expenses and helped fund and build his political career. Messages sent by agents referred to him as Our Man Kerr. And it might not have been just the Governor General. By some accounts the CIA infiltrated other Australian agencies as well with the help of Britain's MI6. And that claim actually comes straight from Gough Whitlam's mouth. Before he was removed from power, Whitlam apparently learned that MI6 was bugging cabinet meetings. And in feeding top secret information to the United States. The CIA and MI6 had reportedly been meeting to discuss what they called the Whitlam problem. And the day he was ousted as Prime Minister, Whitlam was apparently supposed to expose the CIA's activities and announce that Australia's government had been compromised. But obviously that's not what happened. There are those who aren't willing to classify Whitlam's removal as a full blown conspiracy or a CIA led coup. Others deny it outright. Kerr for one, dismissed the conspiracy theories and denied any and all wrongdoing. Others claim he didn't need encouragement from outside agencies to make the decision he did. Key documents that could potentially prove what did or did not happen have mysteriously gone missing. But the evidence that does exist is pretty compelling. For starters, there's a precedent for CIA backed coups. I mean, part of the reason Whitlam was so upset with the United States in the first place was because they had just overthrown the democratically elected leader of another country. Not to mention a Deputy Director of the CIA once said in no uncertain terms, Kerr did what he was told to do. If the conspiracy is real, it would have serious implications for Australia's political independence. But regardless of what's true and what's not, the outcome for the United States in 1975 is the same. They get to keep Pine Gap and before long the truth comes out about the so called space research facility. See, Space Research was a cover story, the first cover story. For a brief time after that Pine Gap was a weather station. But its so Called True Purpose wasn't revealed until 1988, more than a decade after Whitlam's dismissal. The current official story is that Pine Gap is a surveillance and intelligence defense base originally meant to provide the United States and Australia with information on Soviet missiles during the Cold War. The base is still open today, and by all accounts it its facilities and capabilities have expanded and improved greatly over time. It collects a wide range of signal intelligence related to drone attacks, missile launches, nuclear weapons and more. And it reportedly supports the defense of Japan, in addition to the United States and Australia. It serves as the ground control station for satellites developed by the CIA. And by some accounts it remains the most important intelligence collection station in the world. Which might all be true, but Pine Gap is still shrouded in mystery and controversy. There's of course the whole area 51 angle the idea that the base could be used for more than just surveillance on our planet, or that it could be housing alien lifeforms, conducting experiments, you name it. But there are also other fears. Critics in Australia worry their country isn't getting enough out of the intelligence deal with the United States. And history actually validates those concerns. When Gough Whitlam became Prime Minister, he was reportedly briefed on Pine Gap's so called Real Purpose. He chose to keep it secret for security reasons rather than spill the beans and make good on his campaign promise. But Whitlam never came around to fully trusting Pine Gap. And come to find out he had good reasons not to. At some point during his administration, he learned the United States and the CIA weren't actually sharing all of the information they were collecting at Pine Gap. And we're not talking about minor details. In 1973, Henry Kissinger issues a DEFCON 3 warning, aka the highest military alert there is during a time of peace. He's worried that a proxy war in the Middle east might go nuclear and parts of Australia might become targets. But no one bothers to tell the Australian prime minister. Whitlam has to find out after the fact. Imagine how that felt. Pine Gap as a defense base gives some context to the strange comments Whitlam made about the base not being used for war. But while that may have been what he was told, classified documents leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden have since revealed that the base actually played a significant role in supporting both intelligence activities and military operations. Reports suggest it has supported wars all over the world. And as a result, peace activists have flocked to Pine Gap's facility. Some have called it a terror base that bears a big responsibility for all the murder and mayhem that has taken place in Iraq and Afghanistan. Others have questioned its use for attacks in Syria and most recently, Gaza and Iran. After the United States bombed Iran's nuclear facilities in 2025, some worried Iran would retaliate and Pine Gap could be targeted due to its offshore location and military significance. But the truth about Pine Gap is we don't know the truth. We know about the whispers of aliens, the suggestion of war crimes, the secrets that have been kept between two partnering countries, but we don't know what's actually happening or if any of it is in our best interest. We just know what government officials want us to know, what little they tell us. And we know their stories haven't always been consistent. I mean, we haven't even talked about Pine Gap's potential to surveil everyday citizens. Mostly because we think the conspiracy wormhole of personal privacy concerns and and government surveillance deserves an episode unto itself. Ever heard of a little company called Palantir? But who's to say that Pine Gap isn't currently spying on all of us right now? On you tapping into your phone or computer, making note that you watched this episode and that maybe you're onto them. Thank you for watching Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram, he conspiracypod, and if you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. For more information on Pine Gap. Amongst the many sources we used, we found reporting by the New York Times, ABC News, the Guardian, and Vice extremely helpful to our research. Until next time, Remember, the truth isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written and researched by Connor Sampson. Edited by Miki Taylor. Fact checked by Sophie Kemp, engineered by Sam Amezquah and video edited and sound designed by Ryan Contra. Special thanks to Nick Johnson, Paige Ransberry, Andrew Byrne, and Jonathan Ratliff. I'm your host, Carter Roy. You say you'll never join the Navy, that you never track storms brewing in the Atlantic, and skydiving could never be part of your commute. You'd never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or fly so fast you break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey@navy.com, america's Navy forged by the sea.